← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Judge Orders More Epstein Files Released
00:41:23
A federal judge has ordered the Trump DOJ to release more Epstein files in response to a legal filing alleging the department failed to comply with the Epstein Act. MS NOW's Ari Melber reports and is joined by The New York Times' David Enrich and veteran journalist Tara Palmeri.
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- [00:02]
Host
Hey there, I'm Kat. I'm a college athlete. I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis which caused back pain and stiffness. Every day with Cosentyx I'm able to stay active.
- [00:14]
Cosentyx Advertiser
Cosentyx Secukinumab is prescribed for adults with active psoriatic arthritis, ankylosing spondylitis or non radiographic axial spondyloarthritis. Available in both IV infusion and self injection. Don't use if allergic to Gosentyx. Get checked for TB before starting. Increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur like TB or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections. Some were fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough, had a vaccine or planned to, or if IBD symptoms develop or worsen, serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentyx or cosentyx.com Move and feel better.
- [00:57]
Host
Ask a room dermatologist about Cosentyx. I started Ornod in 2013 and we make bike apparel. The best part of Shopify for me is our ability to run the business as essentially non technical people. We're able to admin everything on the back end, front end and sell things online easily.
- [01:17]
David Enrich
If Shopify were a bike accessory, I
- [01:20]
Host
think it would actually be the bicycle. It's the thing that you do the thing on. We run the business on Shopify. So start your free trial on shopify.com I'm Ari Melbourne. We begin with a federal judge doing something that is rocking the Trump doj, ordering DOJ to release even more Epstein files, including unredacted ones that could come within a week. Its response in response to a filing alleging DOJ failed to comply with the Epstein law. We all remember how that went. There were delays, there were redactions, there were mistakes. This is new though, and this involves the work of intrepid journalists, survivors, other critics who have stayed on the case. The judge ruling that because the underlying lawsuit made these valid claims and the acting Attorney General Todd Blanche on behalf of Trump didn't really engage, didn't respond substantively to those valid legal arguments. He effectively, and this is where strong arming the courts can backfire on Trump, the judge found that they effectively, quote, conceded violation of the act. That's the Epstein law. So the DOJ has until the end of next week to release the records or go back to court. And this comes at a time where the ongoing pressure has coordinated. In other words, that lawsuit was going. The judge decided when to rule. But what you see today on your screen is another big day of blockbuster testimony happening on Capitol Hill. The scandal roaring back despite Trump's best efforts to get Republicans to stand down. Well, Trump has failed on that. Billionaire Leon Black went into a closed doors interview, and if you want to get a sense of whether it mattered, whether he was facing uncomfortable, tough questions, well, he stormed out of there before it was over. So more on that tonight and our guests will break it down. But just to remind you, Black was such a key figure in Epstein's orbit because while other people came and went, some said they had no idea what was going on or they never exchanged money. Black was a much bigger deal. The Times reporting Epstein's friendship with Black was basically, quote, the most important relationship he had with, with someone in that rich and powerful circle. There were other rich and powerful people. Some of them had sporadic contact or a, you know, a group dinner here or there that many of those people have now said they regret. But this was, according to the Times, the most important. Black kept Epstein afloat financially even after the 2008 conviction for soliciting prostitution from a minor. And all of that is context for how today, all these years later, because of all the things we've all lived through as a country, the pressure on Trump, the way this became a bipartisan issue, the way that even after the documents, the files came out, members of Congress kept pushing, and I should mention including some Republicans who crossed Trump on this because they said it mattered. All of that leading up until this day, with the pressure on Black to do something that he dodged largely, which was appearing in this kind of high stakes testimony. And he didn't want to answer these questions. He didn't want to get into alleged hush money payments. He didn't really have great answers, as I'll show you, about why he paid so many millions over 160 million to Epstein. And there was a general sense that he was dodgy. We have had many of these depositions
- [04:29]
Robert Garcia
and interviews, and this is the first time as someone actually walked out in the middle of it.
- [04:33]
Host
This is also the first time I heard someone gush poetically about how smart and how great Jeffrey Epstein was.
- [04:39]
Tara Palmieri
It's also clear that Mr. Black knew
- [04:42]
Robert Garcia
of Epstein's past conviction and plea deal
- [04:46]
Tara Palmieri
and also was unbothered by it. Leon Black was arrogant. He was smug. He refused to answer the questions.
- [04:57]
Host
That's the view of several of the Democratic lawmakers. Now, to give you the accurate full picture, Black and his lawyers arranged for him to come in voluntarily. Now, that would be a good thing if he voluntarily participated throughout, but it looks a lot more like a kind of a bait and switch because he came involuntarily but then wouldn't answer questions, including foreseeable questions. There is documentation about him sending money to women related to the Epstein case. There is reporting that there may be NDAs. The thing about reporting on NDAs, though, is if you don't actually get a hold of them and both parties have legal agreements and sanctions and hanging over them to not admit them, it can be hard to get to the bottom of that. But these were not kind of oddball, unfair, random questions. These are the kind of things that you would expect a participating witness to prepare for, refresh their memory, talk to their lawyers, an answer. Instead, Black was, according to many, and the Republicans and Democrats appeared to agree on this point, dodging things and not willing to get into those NDAs and non disclosure hush money agreements at all. And so that led to this very unusual development where basically during the interview he got a legal subpoena. That's them kind of calling his move and saying, yeah, you said you'd come in voluntarily, but we have methods to make you talk. We are Congress. People go to jail sometimes for violating subpoenas. You probably remember the Navarro and other cases. So they gave him that, telling this billionaire they're going to be tough. Top Democrat Robert Garcia discussing that.
- [06:28]
Robert Garcia
We actually commend Chairman Comer's decision here. It's what Democrats have been asking for. These subpoenas will ensure that we get the NDAs, but also ensure that we actually get Leon Black in front of
- [06:39]
Host
our committee under subpoena and under oath,
- [06:42]
Robert Garcia
so that he actually has to answer these questions.
- [06:45]
Host
These interviews should all be under oath. Two quick points there on substance, using actual pressure with teeth to get more information about this. That's the substance of subpoenaing someone even who tried to, with his fancy lawyers and big plans, tried to use a voluntary appearance to maybe just get by this. So that's substantively what's happening. Pressure on the politics. And Congress is full of politics. What you just heard was a Democrat, quote, commending a Republican on that committee for using those tactics, which is a reminder that for all of the partisan rancor and all the failures that we've seen, this issue does seem to go differently. Mr. Garcia, who I just showed you there, has been on this program, he's talked about how they want to work whichever way they can, including with Republicans who are willing to go forward on an investigative basis. Now, that doesn't include Trump or Blanche, Republicans who have been fighting this tooth and nail. But if it improve, excuse me, if it includes Chairman Comer today, well, you're seeing that bipartisanship, at least on this subpoena issue. Now, we did hear from Black, and as always, I want to tell you what he's saying. I showed you the criticism of him. I showed you the pressure. But this is also a time for learning. And just like any court case, you want to learn both sides to make up your own mind. But if you think of Black here as the kind of civil witness in this process, here's what he was saying. He claims he was duped by Epstein, that over $60 million was actually basically tricked out of him, even though he is supposed to be a pretty sophisticated banker, that financial advisory fees he were told were tax deductible, so he thought they would actually cost him a lot less. Now, let me pause right there. That's his defense of forking up tens of millions of dollars for these tax services. But it's not really conceivable that someone at the top of the financial industry, a billionaire with hordes of lawyers, lawyers at his capital firm, personal lawyers, civil lawyers, been around the block a couple decades, done big deals, that he wrongly thought that business services would be tax deductible, like some kind of charitable donation. Any lawyer, anyone in finance knows all about that and wouldn't really fall for that. So I'll tell you what he said, but I'll also tell you the strength and the credibility of that particular defense. Now, he's also denied any wrongdoing or knowledge of Epstein's criminal conduct. And we should note he has not been pursued criminally thus far. Black's ties to Epstein, though, are deep. The phrase, quote, please call Leon Black appears over 300 times in the Epstein files. So either you believe these two men were constantly discussing tax policy or there were calls about other things. Then there's that money I mentioned already that Black said he thought it was less, but the actual total charge was about $170 million across six years. So either you believe that that was all for tax services and you could have a pretty big tax bill and still not want to pay 170 million to avoid it. You might just put that money towards the bill. But either you believe that, or as these investigators have said, there's more to the story because the Times reporting suggests that Epstein was doing other non taxed services For Black, including being a type of fixer, what that actually means and entails is still under investigation. Times also reporting that Epstein did do that financial work. That despite his financial dependency, Epstein believed he still had power in the relationship. The pressure campaign appeared to work. Black, one of the richest Wall street figures, continued to fork over tens of millions of dollars. So reading between the lines there, the Times is suggesting that perhaps it's not proven, but perhaps there were reasons that that money was changing hands beyond the just claimed tax services. Now, again, I told you we're going to tell you both sides of this right before we bring in our guests. One of Black's lawyers tells the Times that the payments to Epstein were all tax and estate planning services. And just to get this on record, they added, to imply that Epstein somehow had influence over Mr. Black is false and patently absurd. That's reporting from the Times. And we are joined by deputy Investigations editor from the New York Times, David Enrich, who has covered Black and Epstein's relationship extensively, as well as many other facets of this. And another reporter who's worked on this story quite a bit, Tara Palmieri, veteran journalist, author of the Red Letter on Substack, and host of the Tar Paul Miri podcast. Welcome to both of you. David, your and your colleagues reporting is paramount here. I mentioned that we do want to reflect the denials. There was also a clear clash over the scope of testimony today. Given that you've been so deep in this. One, where does Black fit into the Epstein circle? Just big picture to remind people. And then two, what stood out to you or what did you learn today?
- [11:33]
David Enrich
Well, the Black relationship is arguably one of the very most important relationships that Epstein had. And Black was the single biggest financial contributor to Epstein probably ever, but certainly in the years after he was convicted of a sex crime and had to register as a sex offender. So he played an absolutely indispensable role in keeping Epstein afloat, allowing him to continue to abuse women, young women, and also maintain this very extravagant lifestyle. And the thing that surprised me about today's hearing is that it was very odd to me that Black was willing to go in there voluntarily in the first place. He's been extremely tight lipped and uncooperative with requests to better understand the nature and extent of his relationship with Epstein. And the notion that he was going to go in there and just voluntarily happily answer everything for lawmakers really surprised me. And it turned out that that was not at all what he intended to do. And now I guess he's going to have to do that under threat of, you know, contempt of his Congress.
- [12:38]
Host
Tara, what stands out to you? We want to know, because you've covered this a lot and I want to play as well what Chairman Comer said today. Take a listen. The NDAs are between him and other women. We want to know was Jeffrey Epstein involved in the NDAs? Was he involved in writing, was he involved in awarding funds to the women for the NDAs? What was the reason for the NDAs? We will know everything about the NDAs.
- [13:18]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah, I think that this was a huge waste. Yeah, this was a huge waste of time, obviously, to have him on the Hill. It should have always been under oath. There should have always been a penalty of perjury. Now he's going to show up again. Will he plead the fifth the entire time? We don't know. But I mean, even if you just look through some of the prosecution memos dating back to 2019, multiple Jane does accused Leon Black of sexual abuse. They did so under threat of perjury themselves and sworn depositions with the FBI, it's baffling to me that there hasn't been an investigation into Leon Black. As we know, the former U.S. attorney Jay Clayton was actually appointed by Leon Black to his post as chairman of Apollo Private equities, which is the firm that he founded when he was pushed out or up because of his Epstein, his Epstein scandal. So, you know, it's been a really big shocker to various victims and survivors who just wonder when are they actually going to get justice? And in all of these cases it feels like, you know, Congress has in some ways offered these potential co conspirators a platform to clear their name rather than actually holding them to account under oath and directly questioning them. And frankly, they should be doing it in front of the cameras because this story has been a huge cover up from the beginning. And people need to actually see the kind of questioning like did they actually read to Leon Black some of the, some of the legal filings prepared by the Southern District of New York back in 2019 where you know, word for word what Jane does have alleged and let him actually respond. We don't know that. You know, we need to be able to see that they are getting a rigorous cross examination because that's what the American people deserve.
- [15:05]
Host
Yeah, I think that's important and useful that you're reminding everyone there's many, sadly, there's many tentacles to these conspiracies and stories and you're reminding everyone of the credible accusations, statements by women in affidavits in legal proceedings about this same individual. David, I want to play some of how the news reports have discussed this issue that even Donald Trump's cabinet secretary referred to as, quote, blackmail. Epstein was not charged with blackmail. I want to be precise about what we're talking about. But take a listen how some of this has played out.
- [15:39]
David Enrich
He tried to almost test what he
- [15:41]
Host
could get away with and kind of went up a ladder in a way of trying to go big name after big name.
- [15:46]
Ty Cobb
He wanted to manipulate all the people that he thought were going to pose, you know, an obstacle to what he wanted to do.
- [15:53]
Host
And there are other emails like that
- [15:55]
Robert Garcia
where I'll always keep your secrets.
- [15:58]
David Enrich
People use their like power, influence and access to semi famous or famous people
- [16:03]
Host
to like manipulate other people.
- [16:06]
Robert Garcia
And Jeffrey Epstein did this to me.
- [16:08]
Host
It looks like blackmail should be investigated. That's somewhat, We've heard. David, the Times reporting looks at the, what, what lawyers would call the elements of blackmail. It. Does it land on saying this was basically a series of blackmail campaigns or does it go short of that based on the evidence you have? And where does, where does this witness fit into that?
- [16:34]
David Enrich
Yeah, I mean, I, I don't, I definitely cannot say that this amounts to blackmail. What we know is that and Epstein was paid something like $170 million over four or five years. Some of that was definitely for legitimate tax and estate planning services. There's no question about that. But what we also know is that regardless of what this was, this is what Epstein was paid for. We know that he provided a lot of other services as well, and that included he introduced Epstein to a bunch of. Or, sorry, he introduced Black to a bunch of young women. When those relationships soured, Epstein was there helping clean up the mess, helping to arrange payments. We know that on a number of occasions, Epstein in emails reminded Black of that kind of work that he had performed. Now, I do not know that that constitutes blackmail. It may just be him pressuring. It certainly was him pressuring Black to pay him millions of dol more. But there's a lot of hairsplitting going on from Blackscamp which is arguing that these payments were purely for these legitimate tax and estate planning services. And, you know, money is fungible. So all we know is that the money was paid to Epstein and we know the array of services Epstein was providing. And I don't, can't say like if certain funds were earmarked for specific purposes, but there's no question and an unequivocal evidence in the Epstein files and from sources we've spoken to that show. Epstein was helping black dealers with women.
- [17:56]
Host
Yeah.
- [17:57]
Tara Palmieri
If I could just add one thing. Yeah, yeah.
- [18:00]
Host
I'm going to go to you. I want to. I want to mention one more thing and go to you, because Bill Gates, I just want to remind everyone, recently gave testimony where he said he believed that that might have been one of Epstein's goals, but he didn't do it. And all of this matters. If Epstein was blackmailing people of that power, was he blackmailing anyone in government for what has been documented special treatment? I think that's those. I'm putting those out as questions that are important. Tara gets our last word tonight. Please go ahead.
- [18:26]
Tara Palmieri
Thank you. I just wanted to piggyback onto that reporting. You know, in the emails, it shows that Epstein's pilot, Larry Vasoski, went out and bought a bunch of pin cameras, really tiny cameras that he could place inside of Kleenex boxes around the house. And he told Jeffrey Epstein that he had done that. He even remarked in an email inside of the Epstein files that it was remarkable how small these cameras were. You know, you have to wonder, what are they doing with all of this footage? We also know from emails, internal inside of the Epstein files, that FBI agents discussed the fact that there was 40 to 50 terabytes of video footage that they were sitting on. We haven't seen that. We've only seen 300 megabytes of files so far. I think it's gigabytes, maybe megabytes or gigabytes, but we haven't seen terabytes. Terabytes are huge files. So you got to wonder, what is all of that video that the FBI is sitting on? And is it blackmail? We don't know for sure because FBI has the footage right now.
- [19:28]
Host
All great points. I want to thank both of you. You've worked on this story a lot. On a big day on the Hill, we tell folks, coming up, Iran and the US Exchanging new hostilities, raising questions about this tentative peace deal. J.D. vance basically saying maybe Watergate was no biggie, which is alarming. And we have a very special guest, as we sometimes do, to end the week when he is available. Ty Cobb, a Trump White House veteran, very critical of what's happening in this administration. My special guest next in 90 seconds.
- [20:01]
Robert Garcia
Hey there.
- [20:02]
Host
I'm Kat. I'm a college athlete. I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis, which caused back pain and stiffness. Every day with Cosentyx, I'm able to stay active.
- [20:13]
Cosentyx Advertiser
Cosentyx Secukinumab is prescribed for adults with active psoriatic arthritis, ankylosing spondylitis or non radiographic axial spondyloarthritis. Available in both IV infusion and self injection. Don't use if allergic to Cosentyx. Get checked for TB before starting. Increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur like TB or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections. Some were fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough, had a vaccine or plan to or if IBD symptoms develop or worsen. Serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentyx or cosentyx.com Move and feel better.
- [20:57]
Host
Ask a rheumatologist about Cosentyx. Celebrate America's 250th with Dish for a limited time. Get an extra 20 $250 off when you sign up. Call 888-add-dosh or visit dish.com today and use code DISH250 to claim your $250 savings. That's 888, add Dish. Offer ends August 12th. Terms apply. I started Ornad in 2013 and we make bike apparel. The best part of Shopify for me is our ability to run the business as essentially non technical people. We're able to admin everything on the back end, front end and sell things online easily. If Shopify were a bike accessory, I think it would actually be the bicycle. It's the thing that you do the thing on. We run the business on Shopify.
- [21:56]
David Enrich
Start your free trial on shopify.com foreign.
- [22:04]
Host
Ceasefire has tilted back towards something that is not exactly a ceasefire. Now this has happened before and we don't want to be alarmists, but there are great concerns because this is hostilities between nations that are trying to get out of the war we've heard so much about. Here's the news. The Pentagon states it has launched new strikes on Iranian drone and missile targets today. That comes after Iran hit a container ship that was passing through the Strait of Hormuz that we've heard so much about. Safe passage through the Strait is one of the elements of the Memorandum of Understanding reach between these two countries. Other details and requirements include abstaining from threats, which is something that under Donald Trump, the United States also broke. And so we are in this period of wondering whether any of this is actually going to hold. I want to bring in David Rothkop, foreign policy expert, member of the Council on Foreign Relations, host of Deep State Radio, the podcast. Welcome back. You know, we were talking this week about how many experts say Trump lost the war, struck this deal, and that the substance of the deal, its impact on the US and allies is negative. Even though people didn't want to go back to war. Now we have the exchange of hostilities. And so catch us up on where we are tonight.
- [23:21]
Robert Garcia
Well, I think, you know, negotiations sometimes take the forms of people sitting around a table. And sometimes negotiations are indirect, sometimes in unhealthy relationships. Like in other kinds of relationships, the communication is via violence. And in this particular case, there's several people being communicated to. The Iranians were communicating to the operators of the vessels going through the strait that they wanted them to go through certain channels because they control those channels. And I think it's important to Iran in terms of the long term negotiation to be able to say we are in charge because I think ultimately they want to get paid for it. Right. And they also at the same time are communicating with Washington. Washington has said don't do anything to violate the agreement. And the Iranians are saying, well, what if we do this? How are you going to respond to that? And the United States is saying, well, if you do this, we're going to send in six aircraft, we're going to attack four drone strikes, which is what happened for 90 minutes. It was kind of proportional. It was designed not to derail the whole negotiating process. And so you've got both sides kind of understanding what the parameters are. And frankly, that's a sign that the Iranians can't communicate openly with us. They don't believe what we're saying. They believe the president blusters and overstates what he's going to do. And this is a way for them to say, well, okay, let's see.
- [25:01]
Host
And so if you were doing your David Rothkop poly market, but without trying to make dough, but just make us perhaps slightly more informed, does any of that process, which you just sort of explicated, affect the likelihood that they've get this deal finished?
- [25:24]
Robert Garcia
I don't think it does. I don't think the likelihood is going up or down. I think everybody who was watching this expected a messy negotiation that was going to go on for longer than the White House said it was going to go on for, that was going to end up with terms less good than the White House said it was going to end up with. And that was going to involve Iran testing limits constantly throughout it. I suspect there will be more instances like this, there will be more breaks in the ceasefire if you will, in order to get towards the final agreement. Whether there will ever be a final agreement, I can't say. And I would advise you and your listeners not to spend a lot of poly market money on that.
- [26:07]
Host
Fair. All fair. David Rothkop, thank you very much. We appreciate it. I want to turn to another big issue that hangs over so many of the Trump abuses of power, which is the kind of worst presidential scandal in the modern era was of course, Nixon. He was driven from office in part by Republicans who joined Democrats, experts concerned about what he did. And now we have this. I think that his historical legacy is enjoying a bit of a renaissance, but I think deservedly so. As I joked with Robert backstage, if Watergate happened tomorrow, it would be like a 12 hour news story. Is that a good thing? And why is J.D. vance defending or minimizing abuses of power? Former Trump White House lawyer Ty Cobb, now a major critic, joins us. We are living in a time of tremendous abuse of power, rampant, rampant corruption. We've got all kinds of stories that we follow all the time. And so one of the things that happens is you get revisionist history about what we're living through right now. They want to make you think this is all okay or you're overreacting revisions about recent history like Jan.6 and now the larger history, because it actually matters, because history and facts matter. Sometimes the people who are worried that things are going to catch up with them want you to be confused about reality. Here in the news, we will try to keep us grounded on actual political historical reality on earth. And that brings me to the current vice president, United States, saying things about Richard Nixon's Watergate scandal that are themselves scandalous. Nixon is the only president ever to resign, which he did after extensive investigations. The rule of law was tested but ultimately worked. And a Congress that had some partisan politics, just like now, ultimately said we can't have a criminal president. Republicans famously joining ultimately the move when the evidence was overwhelming and telling the president he would be impeached, maybe convicted in the Senate. He had to go and he did. Seven aides went to prison. Huge revelations about political dirty tricks that undermine how democracy works because there was surveillance of political opponents, the dnc, misuse of military and CIA powers to try to pressure the FBI to kill the probe, misusing the IRS to target enemies, and more. Indeed, if you learn any modern American political history, the Watergate scandal is taught fundamentally as an existential crisis. For whether there could be rule of law, Was law going to hold? Or was the president above the Law, as the old saying goes. And then it's often taught as a time where nonpartisan accountability held that the Republicans stood up, they broke with Nixon, and yet here we are today, apparently going backwards. Vice President Vance at the Nixon Presidential Library. I think that his historical legacy is enjoying a bit of a renaissance, but I think deservedly so. As I joked with Robert backstage, if Watergate happened tomorrow, it would be like a 12 hour news story. Like, the idea that it would have taken down a presidency is crazy. The idea that it would take down a presidency, he says. Now, why would J.D. vance go this far and risk looking this lawless and ridiculous? Well, if you're watching the news, I bet you already know Vance is concerned about the idea that sooner or later the system would hold accountability for a criminal White House DOJ type operation that targets critics or abuses subpoena and surveillance powers. It has loyalty, tests or obstructs justice, as you'll see here on the screen. Impeachment, of course, was part of the remedy in Nixon's case. It was threatened in Trump's case. He already faced it twice. Who knows what could happen after these midterms? And both of these men, in different ways, have falsely claimed that they are above the law and the Constitution does not limit them because they can do what they want.
- [30:31]
Ty Cobb
Not that I don't have the right
- [30:33]
Host
to do anything I want to do. I'm the President of the United States.
- [30:36]
Robert Garcia
But when the President does it, that
- [30:37]
Host
means that it is not illegal. Fact check. False. I'm joined by Ty Cobb, who was the perfect guest for this discussion as he served as White House Counsel in the President Trump's first term and has experience at the DOJ, which deals with exactly these issues. Does J.D. vance get something wrong here? And if so, why is he doing this?
- [31:02]
Ty Cobb
Well, I don't know why he would compare himself to Nixon. I think Nixon is not highly regarded by history. Even Republicans by 2 to 1 have a negative view of Nixon. So I think it's very od. And the only revival of the Nixon discussion that I'm aware of is people talking about how Nixon was threatened with impeachment. And keep in mind that the articles had been drafted, the House was prepared to pass those articles of impeachment and the Senate was prepared to convict Nixon, which Barry Goldwater and others went down Pennsylvania Avenue to advise Nixon, and Nixon, in an honorable act, resigned and left the office in shame. But at least he acknowledged the circumstances and left. Here you've got a President whose ability to accept responsibility is not to be seen. Nobody's ever seen him admit a mistake or acknowledge an error and certainly would never admit to the wrongdoing that we've seen. The Nixon articles of impeachment, too, were for impeding an investigation into the Watergate burglary. And the second article of impeachment in that case was Nixon's use of the government to target his enemies, the FBI, the CIA and the irs in specifically. And here we've got an FBI and an IRS that have targeted Trump's enemies. You know, they're prosecuting Comey. The first case against Comey was dismissed by a judge, just as the Letitia James case was dismissed. The Jerome Powell case was thrown out by Judge Pirro, conceding that it was a purely political exercise when Thom Tillis refused to move forward with the replacement of Mr. Powell's successor at the Federal Reserve. So I think there are certainly parallels between Trump and Nixon in that regard. And two of the articles of impeachment that were voted down or not passed by the House in the Nixon case, one involved emoluments and another involved tax evasion. And certainly with Trump, he doesn't have to worry about tax evasion because Todd Blanche has immunized him from tax evasion. His own personal lawyer as the head of the government. So I do see parallels between Nixon and Trump, but comparing Nixon to Trump in terms of what they could be impeached for is like comparing a jaywalker with a serial killer. I mean, Trump's corruption. You know, let's just start. Let's say any with the $1.8 billion that he and Blanche wanted to take from the American taxpayers to create the slush fund, you know, the $400 million Qatari plane, the $500 million from the UAE in exchange for our most sensitive trips, they invest in a Trump run company. You, the crypto issues, the coins from the White house, the watches, $750 million in recently reported stock trades involving many of those trades involving government contractors. Then you've got the Justice Department going after Trump's people who have crossed Trump in the past, like Comey and James and others, and the pardons being sold, the pardons of major drug dealers, and billions of dollars cumulatively of swindlers who get out of the obligation to make restitution. So I think for Blanche to raise, Nixon was a strategic heir. And it certainly doesn't make historical sense when you take a look at the comparisons. And keep in mind, I mean, I don't know what Blanche has to do with Nixon because Nixon was he brought Title nine into play and implementation increased affirmative action within the government. You know, brought. He was an environmentalist. He passed so much legislation starting with the National Environmental Protection act, the Endangered Species act and others. And he was an internationalist devoted to empowering NATO and empowering our allies, but trying to bring in other countries, country like China. So let me show you comparison.
- [35:53]
Host
Let me show you a bit more. I mean, Vance fashions himself a political troll that he thinks he can, you know, score points, but also a kind of an amateur intellectual which has come through in his two books where he, he doesn't have, shall we say, humility about dissecting the entire Midwest rural history of problems from populism to drug abuse to the welfare state. And now he's, you know, trying to tell the Pope how Catholicism should work. So that's who he is there. I want to show a little more because he seems to think he's doing something clever by equating this and getting everyone ready for maybe he's girding for a Democratic House or a future where a new DOJ does look back at this stuff. Here's the rest of that comparison. And by the way, if you look at the story of how the deep state took down Richard Nixon, it's not all that different from what the same groups of people, the same institutions tried to do to Donald Trump and the first Trump administration. There is a parallel again, what do you see him doing there? Looking at a future where there could be accountability.
- [37:04]
Ty Cobb
Well, so I think that is highly calculated. I think the level of corruption that we just went through, scratching the surface on the corruption that's been committed in the last, last 18 months, you know, is, is so vast that, you know, trying to have, have a boogeyman out there, the so called deep state to blame, you know, there's no deep state. These are, these are facts. And I think, I think the Democrats, if they take the House, you know, will, will, will do, do the public good by taking a look at some of these insider, this huge, huge, huge insider trading that's been going on with this administration, the various other financial arrangements involving the Trump family, you know, the drone company that is now a government contractor run by his sons. You know, I think that there will be a lot of investigations and into the IRS deal where notwithstanding years and years of IRS investigations that calculated that Trump had avoided approximately $100 million in taxes that he owed, I think you'll see investigations that bring these to light. And that's not the deep state. That's our elected officials and our government doing what they're supposed to do when the country itself is a victim of fraud.
- [38:32]
Host
Yeah. And you mentioned all the corruption. I mean, for anyone who actually still cares about our Constitution, that was the one of the first things they were worried about. They enumerated treason, crimes against the state and bribery as impeachable offenses because those were two things that they'd seen in the monarchy and they were very concerned about. Well, bribery is what we're talking about here. When you rattled it off, I won't repeat you, Ty, but you gave a lot of examples that involve getting stuff because you're in the government and you wouldn't be getting all that stuff, crypto money, sweetheart deals, presidential family on these, you know, betting market sites, getting extra money in stock but for being in the government and tied to it. So a lot of the, a lot of stuff there. Mr. Cobb, stay with us. We're back with more on these issues after BREAKING break. I called up the very powerful, very good U.S. attorney in California and I
- [39:30]
Robert Garcia
said, do me a favor, take a look.
- [39:32]
Host
They're trying to steal that election, too. But the U.S. attorney called. We want to check your votes. About an hour after the call. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Hilton has won. So had I not made that call, Steve Hilton would right now be looking, watching the election from home. Donald Trump admitting to trying to call in investigations. We're back with Ty Cobb, White House veteran DOJ prosecutor. When you see the president admit things now that in the first term they would deny what's happening here and what insight do you bring from trying to work with some of these folks last time?
- [40:11]
David Enrich
Time?
- [40:12]
Ty Cobb
Well, I have to say I don't see much of that. There might have been things that they wouldn't have discussed, but they wouldn't have been rampant with these fraudulent denials or these more compelling admissions of trying to influence things. The reference there to the U.S. attorney's office that actually is interesting only because it's inconsistent with his other references to that particular call, which happened days earlier and well before Hilton moved up. And there's no question that Trump asked the U.S. attorney out there to initiate election fraud investigations. There's no doubt that the U.S. attorney out there did initiate some election fraud activity. He has said as much. There's also no indication that any of that investigation resulted in the finding of a single fraudulent vote. And the mis Hilton's rise to be one of the candidates in the soon to be general election was based on the voters. It wasn't based on any fraud by Anybody. So I think we've seen Stephen Miller this week quoted as saying, if you change the voter, you change the country. That's what we've saw the president tried to do with what's going on in his attempts to shut down mail in voting, which fortunately was rebuked today by a judge in Massachusetts who said that no, he could not tell the postal Service not to mail ballots to people, that he doesn't control the elections, that his executive order to that effect was null and void and that he was not going to be allowed to interfere the way he sought to interfere. That won't stop him from trying to interfere. You will see additional efforts by the administration to try to prevent mail in ballots and to try to contest procedures. And ultimately, I fear that given the, given the war games that he has played in Minnesota and elsewhere with ICE and the National Guard, I think we will see sadly confrontations at or about the time of the elections. And I think that's something that we have to be very, very concerned about. I do hope that when the Democrats, if they do take the House, that they take a look at some of this election misconduct that the Republicans intend and are engaged in. And I hope they take a really hard look at ICE and get us some answers as to why the two murderers of Renee Good and Alex Preddy have gone uncharged among other atrocities that we've suffered
- [43:02]
Host
a lot of important issues, as you say there, and sounding the alarm, having people ready, making sure people are thinking about this in the right way so they're not duped, especially by a so called called emergency measures is part of it, not all of it, part of it. Ty Cobb, thank you. Wishing you a good weekend. We'll be right back. The fair is everything. This giant Ferris wheel, there's a carousel. They even have a Trump approval rating roller coaster which has the biggest drop in history. If that's not all, they even have a petting zoo with some of the animals Trump named during his last cognitive attack. Test horse, duck, stripey horse, Jimmy Fallon going on Trump on the Tonight Show. Some of those are easy pickings, including the Trump Fair. The comics had a lot to choose from this week. Now you got people across the country coming over to gawk at the fact that you turned the reflecting pool into a Kool Aid bucket. Trump somehow went from draining the swamp to creating one. This is how far America has fallen. The last time we collected this many people around the reflecting pool was for civil rights. People were like, we must come out
- [44:12]
Ty Cobb
to support Dr. King.
- [44:14]
Host
60 years later, we're like a slimy pool. This I gotta see. The trend is things going downhill but having fun with it. We'll be right back.
- [44:30]
Tara Palmieri
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Host
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Tara Palmieri
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Host
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Tara Palmieri
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Host
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Tara Palmieri
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Host
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Angie Hicks
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- [46:04]
Host
what are you up to this weekend? Well, I'll remind you if you are around tomorrow, you can always catch the Beat weekend on Saturday. We have highlights, special reports, things you might have missed. It's Saturday 4pm Eastern right here on Ms. Now. So you can always, always DVR that as part of watching the beat on your TV or check it out if you're near your TV. Saturday, 4pm that does it for us.
- [46:22]
Angie Hicks
Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair done well. Kitchen sink install done well. Deck upgrades done well. Electrical Upgrade done well. Angie's been connecting home homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years. So we know the difference between done and done well. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project@angie.com.