← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Multiple Scandals Engulf Pentagon Chief
00:41:18
Trump defense secretary Pete Hegseth is facing allegations of having committed or overseen a war crime. MS NOW's Ari Melber reports.
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- [00:00]
A
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B
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C
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A
Or choose from other holiday bestsellers. Up to 40% off at 1-800-flowers.com sxm. That's 1-800-flowers. Com sxm. Welcome to the Beat, everyone. I'm Ari Moore. Melba we have a lot coming up tonight, including some very interesting news by the end of the hour. But we begin with what is now a story that not only royals, the Trump administration, our Pentagon, the United States as we know it, but honestly, the whole world. Because while we often look at problems these days in America, and we've covered many of them, the fate of the so called war, or what some see as a pretense, a wannabe war waged by this Trump administration, perhaps illegally against other countries and the F of the Pentagon chief leading that effort. All of this concerns a lot of real people, real lives around the world. And that's where we begin with Trump Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who faces allegations of having committed or overseen a war crime. And against that backdrop, a new internal Pentagon report which is done by these watchdogs. You may remember Trump ousted many of them. You may remember the reports and the concerns from lawyers and nonpartisan legal experts about why you need those watchdogs in government, totally apart from whether you vote, voted for or like a given administration. Well, here's an example of a watchdog doing its work because while it appears that Mr. Hegseth did not participate or cooperate meaningfully, and we'll get to that, the watchdog at the Pentagon has found that nonetheless, based on the evidence they gathered, he put his employees, service members at risk. And that's in A scandal. You might remember the intelligence failures and mistakes committed by Hegseth and others in what they called signalgate for the name of the app they use. So this is the inspector general report. It centers around the messages sent from high ranking Trump national security officials that included the vice president, the CIA director, the then national security advisor, and others. At the time they were discussing US Strikes in Yemen. These messages were sent on this secret app, signal, which as a reminder is something that civilians and random people sometimes use for a layer of security. Although the government can tell you signal is not like magic. You can get a hold of signal chats, as these people ultimately found, and remember they have a lot more secure material available to them that apparently they just flouted and didn't use. Now, the initial mistake that teed this off was a journalist, the Atlantic's Jeffrey Goldberg, who was added to the chat. An unclassified version of the watchdog report is set to come out tomorrow, but we're already getting glimpses of it and it's going to Congress. There's a source of who has knowledge of the report and tells msnow that it found Hegseth put the operations and service people at risk with his signal mistake. Hegseth sent messages that included information about targets, weapons that the US Would be deploying, and attack sequencing, according to the information we initially already had from the Atlantic. Sources also say that Hegseth refused an interview request and would not turn over his phone. So you have this kind of watchdog investigation, and then you have, of course, powerful people who sometimes flout it. But again, for someone who was just using signal, willy nilly, the question is, if he would send these messages, including accidentally or not, to a reporter, why wouldn't he trust or cooperate with his own Pentagon team to get to the bottom of this? And by the way, people in government are humans. Humans make mistakes. If you make a mistake, that is, you don't try to leak information, you're not trying to hurt the troops, but you made a mistake and now you want to clean it up and hey, let's not do that again. Well, the usual proper course would be to cooperate confidentially with your own Pentagon investigation, address the problem, put together preventive measures, and move forward according to the reporting we have, and we'll update it as we get it. Hegseth did not do that, did not cooperate, and the report finds he violated department policy. That is, of course, the ongoing sort of Runway on a story that made big waves when it first happened so long ago. Then there is the very Recent story where the probes are just getting started of an alleged war crime that was conducted under Hagseth's leadership. Who might ultimately be held responsible for that is of course, a intricate military and legal question. A reminder, of course, the military is in our country governed by its own uniform code of Military Justice. There is a different legal system, if you saw a few good men that oversees that separate from, say, just the random federal courts that others deal in. And so there will be a real military legal investigation here if the process works. And then there is also Congress, which currently has calls from Democrats and Republicans to get to the bottom of this, to interview the necessary individuals. And some saying Hagseth has lost confidence and may ultimately have to leave this office. If you go over to conservative media, the Murdoch owned Wall Street Journal says Hagseth must of course testify under oath about this, while the commanding officer, Admiral Mitch Brady, will be giving a classified briefing to lawmakers tomorrow. Hegseth has faced criticism for his odd public and at times, frankly, Orwellian messages that he's rushed to post about Bradley. You know, this is often a very content oriented social media type cabinet. And so he rushed onto social media platforms and X to post things that seem to pin the blame on this individual while also claiming to take some sort of higher ground.
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Quote, admiral Bradley's an American hero, a true professional, and has my 100% support. Fine. But look at the next part. I stand by him and the combat decisions he has made on the September 2nd mission and on all others since. That phrasing has roiled the Pentagon and plenty of military allies who look at it as in the middle of this process and investigation, the secretary jumping out to say he made these calls as if there was no oversight. Of course we have civilian oversight of the military in this country. And currently that is done by Pete Hegseth. Then he said he wasn't in the room for the second strike.
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I watched that first strike live. As you can imagine, at the Department.
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D
Of War, we got a lot of.
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A
Things to do, so I didn't stick.
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D
Around for the hour and two hours, whatever.
- [07:18]
E
So you didn't see any survivors?
- [07:19]
A
To be clear, after that first strike, I did not personally see survivors, but I stand because the thing was on fire. It was exploded in fire smoke. You can't see anything. You got digital. This is called the fog of war.
- [07:35]
His argument is this is the fog of war. Many people have pointed out there is no declared war. Congress has certainly not voted to authorize a war. You would have noticed if that happened. And so the administration finds itself stretched very far on this very regrettable probable tragedy, stretched from a war they have not declared or gotten legal authority for all the way out to these operations that when they go a certain way, the Pentagon and the Trump media machine are quick to basically push out as a kind of video content to show what they're doing against perhaps drug boats, we don't know. You need to check the evidence on each one and against the wider foreign threats that they say are so central to their priorities. But stretched across that is a question of whether they committed a clear war crime by doing something that is very clearly banned. Everyone who's ever practiced law or been in the military knows about this. You don't shoot down innocent parachuters, even if they were moments ago waging war, because they become people that you try to lawfully take control of as combatants, as prisoners of war. But you don't go around executing people, and that's war. Remember what I said? They're stretched way away from war because these weren't uniformed foreign adversaries of some other country. These are boats full of people who, if they're doing bad things, can be caught and dealt with like normal, but aren't engaged in war against us. As a factual matter, our colleague Rachel Maddow, who has covered and written about American foreign policy in many contexts, made a statement in an interview here on our air that we want to basically rebroadcast because she discussed with precision what a serious problem. This is a catastrophe for those who were pulled into this and apparently for the Pentagon chief.
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B
And it's a catastrophe. I think Pete Hegseth, it's impossible to imagine that he survives this as Secretary of Defense.
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A
I think he must resign.
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B
And I think Republicans will ask for that ultimately once they investigate this. But this is a disaster for this generation of people serving in the United States military. And that is a tragedy more than a farce.
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A
A tragedy more than a farce. Lives have already been lost. Some of them, according to the evidence emerging, were people that should not, under our laws of war, have been killed, period. Who is responsible for that in the gravest sense, morally and legally is a process question. It is not something that can be resolved by one video or one leak or one article. But as Rachel put it there, it is the type of catastrophe that has a lot riding on it. Right now. I've got special guests. We're back this in 90 seconds.
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We're back with David Rothkoff and retired major general Stephen Leper as we cover a very important story. General, your thoughts?
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D
Well, my thoughts are you're absolutely right in your setup that there is a significant question here whether the first strikes on these vessels is lawful. The administration has certainly said that this is a non international armed conflict. They've posited that as their legal justification. We don't know that for sure because the Office of Legal Counsel memorandum, which presumably establishes that as the basis for these strikes, is yet to be released. And so we're basically confronted with the quandary. What law do we apply? If you accept the administration's views that this is non international armed conflict, then this second strike of this vessel on the 2nd of September could very well be a war crime. Because the laws of armed conflict do apply. If they're not lawful, if they're not a non international armed conflict, then the laws of war wouldn't apply and domestic law would apply, in which case those facts could also constitute murder.
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A
Right. I mean, what's done is done. But as you put it, clearly, it would be worse for some of those involved if it were out of a war context.
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D
Yes.
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Well, I think the consequences could be similar on Both sides. I mean, if this is a. A war crime, it could be prosecuted as such under the war crime statute and US Criminal law. It could also be prosecuted as murder. If the war crimes provision in US Law doesn't apply because this is not an armed conflict, then it would just be murder. So, six of one, half dozen of the other.
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A
And, Steve, your view of how the Pentagon chief has discussed this so far?
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D
Well, I find it embarrassing and disappointing that he is not accepting responsibility for his role in all of this. Certainly the admiral who had operational control over the forces, was responsible for ensuring that the orders he was given were carried out. The remaining question here, and hopefully it'll be uncovered by the congressional hearings, is what exactly was that order? We still don't know. If it was, as the Washington Post reported, kill everyone, then it could easily be construed as an order to kill everyone, including survivors, wounded, or people who are trying to surrender, which would be a violation of international law.
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A
David?
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E
Well, I think this goes beyond politics. It goes beyond any individual. It puts US Soldiers and sailors at risk. If we're not playing by these rules, then what is the message it sends to our enemies? It puts the order and discipline of the United States military at risk. If the guys at the top are saying that they shouldn't be obeying international law, obeying the Uniform Code of Military justice, what does that mean for future behavior if we're engaged in illegal war against an enemy that does not pose a threat? It's one set of issues, as the general has just described. There are a set of legal issues that are involved here, but it goes back to Rachel's point. As far as the future of Pete Hegseth is concerned, this is not a man who can continue to serve as U.S. secretary of Defense precisely because from Signal Gate through to this moment, his actions are putting our troops and our country at risk.
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A
Understood. And there's a lack of seriousness, clarity, and responsibility.
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In his record here. We now have almost about a year of first term, and that's distinct from his presentation. Like President who talks openly about Central casting, David. Mr. Hegseth has mastered some of that medium. He worked in television, no shade to any of us who work in tv, but it is different than the massive responsibilities that face him now. And it would seem there's a real gap between looking the part and doing the part. David. George Will, a longtime conservative, put it very starkly. He calls this a sickening moral slum. Hegseth seems to be, he writes, quote, a war criminal without a war. The killing of the survivors by this moral slum of administration should nauseate Americans.
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E
David, look, hiring a guy with no experience should have nauseated Americans. Hiring a guy with a history of alleged sexual abuse or alcohol abuse should have nauseated Americans. When he got on the job Signal Gate should have done it. When his staff started turning on them, that should have done it. When he launched a DEI initiative where he started erasing the history of American heroes because they were black or because they were women, that should have done it. When he started firing generals and admirals because they were black or because they were women, that should have done it. When he said it was okay to send US Troops into American cities, that should have done it. There are countless other examples. He pulled together every general and admiral, brought them to Quantico, Virginia. And what did he say? What was the big message? You shouldn't be fat. You shouldn't have a beard. You need to have my warrior ethos. Well, look, at this point, Ari, he doesn't have a warrior ethos. He has a war criminal ethos. And it's time to move on.
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A
Again, you make reference to the war criminal allegation and evidence that hangs over all of this. Here was on Fox News what some of their viewers were hearing from Judge Napolitano.
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E
This is an act of a war crime ordering survivors who the law requires be rescued instead to be murdered. There's absolutely no legal basis for it. Everybody along the line who did it, from the secretary of defense to the admiral to the people who actually pulled.
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A
The trigger, should be prosecuted for a.
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E
War crime, for killing these two people.
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A
And I should mention he's been a Fox analyst speaking there on newsmax. Let me correct my reference, Major General Judge Napolitano puts it that way. Could you give us any more insight into how this works within the military, where orders are generally sacrosanct and you don't get to the level of this admiral and others without having dusted up, I suppose at times with the folks who come in to oversee the thing. So where do we go from here?
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D
Well, you know, the process is the process under the Uniform Code of Military justice for the uniformed participants in this event. For Secretary Hegseth, we would be talking about criminal law in the US Federal courts. So there are two systems of justice here.
- [19:15]
A
You may. I'll let you finish your. You're making it clear that anyone who's in uniform acting under the authority of the United States is under the ucmj, the civilian leadership, if it came to that, would be a different legal system that's exactly right.
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D
And you mentioned that there is a strong presumption in military law that all orders must be followed. And that presumption is overcome only if a military member is presented with an order that is patently unlawful. And only in those circumstances does a, a military member have a duty to disobey those orders. So the presumption of lawfulness of the orders exists all the way down the chain of command. And quite frankly, it's incumbent upon the more senior officers, especially when the orders come from the most senior levels in our government, to question the orders if there are questions, to push back on the orders that they consider to be unlawful or immoral or unethical and to shield. To insulate the folks below them in the chain of command from having to having to execute those orders.
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A
Yeah. And as you say, the culpability may run up the line. I was very clear about emphasizing this is a process. There's gotta be a full investigation. You can't go off any one item. But you gotta look up the line on a process like this at whether there was pressure to deal with isolating or ousting these lawyers, oversight staff. We've seen that problem in multiple agencies under the Trump administration. They want to get rid of what they view as anything that's in the way. Well, sometimes what's in the way in a healthy, functioning Pentagon or White House are lawyers who try to protect people from their own worst instincts. Some of that seems to have been cleared out. I want to thank retired Major General Stephen Lepper and David Rothkop, foreign policy expert, both of you on this topic. Thank you. Tonight we're also going to see for the first time these newly released videos and pictures from Epstein island, part of the ongoing release from Congress. And later tonight. 50 cents is here on his big some say controversial and now news making documentary about Sean Diddy Combs, including these new videos, never before seen of footage from inside Diddy's camp before the arrest.
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I've been out in the streets amongst the people.
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Yeah, I gotta take the bath. I gotta go up under the water. Water got to be balling hot.
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Put some peroxide in there.
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Take a look at this brand new never before seen photos and videos of the now infamous horrific site of Jeffrey Epstein's crime. These are new videos of the Epstein island the exterior footage here of what was by any estimation a sprawling, expensive, rich property. Congress released over 200 images and videos that authorities had taken from the Virgin islands back in 2020. That was after Epstein died in the custody of the United States federal government under Trump administration. That island is commonly called Little St. James. Authorities as well as many accusers say it was a kind of a crime spree location. Authorities and accusers have described the sexual abuse and trafficking of young girls there. Virgin Islands attorney general discussed this in 2019. Now, some of these images are just of of course the property, as I mentioned, empty. And after Epstein was gone, an image shows this room where you have 10 masks, a dentist chair and other.
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Equipment for a vacation spot. It seems odd given the backstories that we know it is at a minimum creepy. Although investigators would tell you that the photo alone doesn't tell you much. The New York Times reports that his last girlfriend was actually a dentist. There's another image that's caught some attention because you can see words written on a board. Now some of them were redacted by the House committee for whatever reason, but you can see visible references to truth, deception, power there on the left with a little dash down to other terms that could refer to types of power. You see the terms political fin, which could be financial ph looks like, could be physical. A phone has some names for speed dial. You can see that there the blank cell on the upper right. Would you want to be on Jeffrey Epstein's speed dial list right now? Whether and why those redactions will be changed in the future is part of this ongoing process. Lawmakers want to press doj. They're ask asking the attorney general for a status update given the lawful deadline that she must comply with and that The President signed December 19th. Congressman Robert Garcia discussing the obligation.
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We keep getting this information and these images and these emails from other sources.
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E
We know that what the DOJ has.
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A
Can help us achieve justice for the survivors. The president and the DOJ need to.
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E
Understand that this is cover up that.
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A
They'Re involved with needs to end immediately.
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Then there's the money. Garcia said that JP Morgan and Deutsche bank have complied and that the committee now has their financial records relating to Epstein. His associate Maxwell told a judge she does not take a position regarding grand jury transcripts but is concerned about undue prejudice if she were to get another trial. She also publicized what has been known that she does want to be released.
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So more videos and material are coming out. The deadline is looming and the one person talking in court already got some leniency as a convicted co conspirator from this administration. I'm going to get into all of this with Margaret Carlson next.
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New Epstein files and videos out tonight. While the deadline looms, I'm Joined by editor at large from Semaphore, Margaret Carlson. Nice to see you in person.
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E
Yeah.
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A
You look at these videos and pictures and they have a mood. But as I mentioned, you don't know which is which. But it shows the house continuing to try to show people they can get action, they get material. Here's one of these signs. It was private property. Fancy. They had security. And next they say they got the bank records. It would seem that for a party in the minority, the Democrats have found a way to keep at this.
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C
It's going to dribble out. When I saw that the pictures had been released, I thought, well, here's a little sort of relief. We're going to have some, you know, an Architectural Digest moment here. But when I looked at it, and I would be happy to be there, and, I mean, you and I, or I at least know what it's like to mooch an invitation to a country house. But you wouldn't be striving to go to that particular house. It looks dreary and like an office. And even the words had to be redacted, but they should have redacted some of the furniture. It seems like a grim place to go to unless you had some ulterior activity going on. And the dental chair. Come on.
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A
Yeah, we, you know, we said it may relate to the person he was with for some time, but it's still very odd. And the masks. I think you're making a point that it's sort of interesting when you look at these photos, which is, on the one hand, most people across the world don't have any second home, let alone one in the Caribbean. On the other hand, and we'll put more of the images back up to your point, it doesn't look like, oh, so amazingly glamorous that you'd have this beachfront view and you'd be enjoying the residents. I think you're speaking to the fact that it looks more like, okay, obviously they got a big plot of land here, but were people going down there? People who, again, we have to remind everyone he had these rich individuals. We don't know which were clients or associates of the rest, but those were the type of people that could be at a place that was basically, Margaret, Even nicer digs than this, even more modern. And so it feeds the idea that this was truly as alleged a place for sex crimes. And if that's true, the substantive question becomes, why hasn't anyone else been charged for them?
- [27:53]
C
A lot of it is a mystery because I won't get into the banking stuff now. But think about. It wasn't the meal plan that got them. It had to be something other than, since they were all rich, this piece of property. And wouldn't they be curious about a dental office in there? I mean, the first time I saw it this morning, all I could think of was Lawrence Olivier and Marathon man, the dentist of Auschwitz. He used it as a torture device. So I can't. You. It's so awful there. You don't see that in a country house.
- [28:28]
A
Yeah, it's strange in that sense. I want to play a little bit of Ag Bondi because her words are haunting her as she's been on both sides of this. And she faces this deadline. Take a look.
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B
It's sitting on my desk right now. We will get everything. We will have it in our possession. The full Epstein files. A truckload of evidence arrived. It's now in the possession of the FBI. Everything's going to come out to the public. The public has a right to know.
- [28:57]
A
The public has a right to know. Pam Bondi. Meet Pam Bondi. If they play games, if they redact, and we've heard from lawmakers in both parties who say they are going to go at them if they do. Is she perhaps the worst person with the worst record to then become.
- [29:12]
The secrecy operative?
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C
I mean, she's laid out the terms of redaction, which are very, very broad. And you can picture some of the documents you finally get as a reporter where there's so many black marks, you hold it up to the light, hoping you can kind of suss it out and you can't. And Pam Bondi is like Hexeth. I mean, they are totally creatures of Donald Trump and they're not going to do anything that hurts him. And December 19th is the next deadline, and I hope also somebody's really looking at those bank records where the suspicious. The suspicious activity records didn't bother anybody when billions of dollars was coming in.
- [29:54]
A
J.P. morgan failed to file any of those until after his death. That's after his arrest. They still weren't filing. It was only his death. We showed some of the videos, and if they are inconclusive, we expect these bank records. We expect the house to be going up, not down. So we'll see what they hold. Margaret, thank you.
- [30:10]
B
Thanks.
- [30:11]
A
Our guest coming up is 50 Cent and his co on these new videos. We will show you. The tape was running. It's Diddy's Watergate. You make tapes you think you can control and you lose control of them. The reckoning 50 Cent joins me next.
- [30:33]
Netflix making news this week with a new documentary featuring never before seen video. Sean Diddy Combs in moments that he clearly viewed as secret, including a high stakes call with his lawyer just days before his now infamous arrest. Plus Diddy reacting in real time as new lawsuits dropped against him. Combs has publicly objected that he says the videos were, quote, stolen.
- [30:58]
I don't want to have a life to be an Oliveira. You know, it's really going to be hard for me to take more hits than I take it, God forbid, to get in front of the jury and have a chance. And so I'm having this emergency call because something has to give. I'd listened. I've been a superb client, as you said. I jumped on the plane, I'm coming to New York, but I'm just like, I'm just running around waiting for a shoe to drop. These new videos contribute to a critical portrait of Diddy in the documentary, which we can report tonight, has now jumped to number one for Netflix shows in the US since debuting this week. Sean Combs the Reckoning tackles Diddy's entire life, including previous legal controversies, the recent trial which saw him acquitted on the most serious charges, including rico, but convicted for prostitution crimes that landed him in prison for about two more years. Diddy's team is also rebutting this project as a, quote, shameful hit piece. They note the obtained footage was not authorized for release. Netflix says they legally obtained the videos. The project also comes amid wider calls for sex crimes accountability as we and many news outlets have been covering Jeffrey Epstein and the alleged clients, some of whom have not been held accountable, as well as the banks and systems which supported those sex crimes. In addition to Night, another dynamic here is that another famous rapper is of course behind this film, $0.50, who has long publicly clashed with Diddy and has recently expanded into a wide range of film and TV projects. He has plenty to say about Combs record.
- [32:45]
The rapper, actor and producer joins me now. He's sold over 30 million albums, won all kinds of awards and accolades along the way, and is now a successful film and TV producer. And we're also joined by his colleague on the project, Alexandria Stapleton, an Emmy winning showrunner and director of this series. Welcome to both of you.
- [33:03]
F
Oh man. Thanks for having us.
- [33:04]
A
Always great to have a 50 day.
- [33:06]
F
Yeah, it's always going to be good. Great for reading.
- [33:09]
A
There we go. It's an important project. Clearly. The question for Both of you, 51st, why this project? Why now?
- [33:17]
F
Well, we waited until after the results of the trial to release the project. But I started like almost five months before I was able to find Alex. And finding an Emmy award winning showrunner and director detrimental to the project being really well put together. So they should expect it to perform like Reggie Jackson's did.
- [33:39]
B
Thank you.
- [33:42]
Yeah, I think why it's coming out now is we wanted to wait to get through all of the legal proceedings, the criminal trial, and it spans, it's four parts and it spans over 30 years of power, pop culture, his life. So it, it took some time, to say the least, to put all of this together.
- [34:03]
A
It's an important story and you could just tell it with all the public material. You go further, you've gotten your hands on some extra new material. People are going to see for the first time, including this video. Any journalist would want to know how you got it, but it is Sean Diddy Combs in the heat of this right before the arrest for the trial. We just discussed in private moments talking to his lawyer, cameras running. Let's take a look.
- [34:31]
It's the middle of September and there's still no indictment that you have to have a spokesman, you have to have some sort of comms to constantly be pushing that mark. Cuz you may just be a person that just does. You just may watch CNN. So you @ the wrong place. Looking to see what the people with the possible jurors are thinking. It could be somebody that has dealt in the dirtiest of, dirtiest dirty business of media and propaganda.
- [35:02]
50. How'd you get it and what does that scene.
- [35:04]
F
Show? Well, I mean, you know, you're a.
- [35:06]
B
Journalist.
- [35:06]
F
Harvey. Harvey. You would not disclose your.
- [35:09]
A
Sources. We usually.
- [35:10]
F
Don'T. Yeah, but I, I got.
- [35:13]
A
It. Yeah, what he said.
- [35:18]
What do you think it conveys? Because we see someone trying to pull the string and talking about, he would say affecting others would say manipulating the public views of the.
- [35:28]
B
Allegations. I think that, you know, one big theme of the series is to go behind the scenes to really understand how, how brilliant you could say Sean Combs is at marketing, at owning his narrative, controlling the narrative at all times. And so why would that stop, you know, when, when his life is on the line? So I think that, you know, on its face that's what it is. But as you get deeper in the film, to realize, you know, perhaps how some of these, these tactics, you know, how they, how they really came to, to present themselves, you know, during.
- [36:03]
A
The trial you show victims who were women and men. Why is that.
- [36:06]
B
Important? Because, you know, victims of sexual assault, sexual violence, you know, that that should. There should be. Gender should not be a part of that conversation. When you are a victim, you are a victim. And I think that, you know, this series was a platform in a way for. For these alleged victim.
- [36:27]
Give their truth, put context to their situations when so much of it was ripped out, you know, and we just went. The world was going for the salacious headlines and they really had the time to tell their.
- [36:38]
A
Story. This is another moment from the video that 50 said he won't tell us where he got it, but it's a rare window into his thinking. I can say, just like Nixon didn't think the Watergate tapes would come out against him, it would appear that Diddy did not think he would lose control of this video as he talks about an accuser. Take a look.
- [36:58]
I don't know what the. What level of brokenness disease is going on.
- [37:06]
God told me to do nothing, so I gotta do what God told me to do.
- [37:18]
A girl that's in my group that was on my last album, so you're on my last album now all of a sudden I'm this person, I'm this monster dad.
- [37:31]
Gloves telling off Alexandria, what does this show and the story you're.
- [37:36]
B
Telling? Well, this is a moment where the lawsuits, I would say, take a turn and they become very personal for him. Don Richard is one of the alleged victims.
- [37:50]
Who filed a lawsuit. And I think that this is a moment where he was nicked. You know, his armor was nicked. I guess you could, you could say, because I think, you know, Sean Combs is a person who probably feels like, you know, to step to him, especially legally, is. Takes a lot of courage that I don't think he really assumed that a lot of people were going to have, even though the Cassie, you know, lawsuit had already been out. And so I think he was a little off off balance, but that quickly turned to.
- [38:22]
A
Anger. This was a bad boy co founder who had a falling out with him, as apparently many people did. And it goes beyond the bravado. Some would say 50, you have some bravado and that's okay. Here it seems that it turns into something more sinister and abusive. I want to play Mr. Burroughs talking about it and get your. Your view of why this was important part of the story. Take a.
- [38:44]
E
Look.
- [38:46]
He had this thing with strongmen.
- [38:49]
A
And he had a thing with wanting to be one, but not positioned to be one street wise, but positioned to be one industry wise. And they called that a paper gangster. No, I'm not paying, nor am I involved in any of that. And so as he's paper gangstering, he's also trying to street gangster.
- [39:13]
F
Yeah. Kurt Bowers has a lot of insight. And, you know, this documentary is about people being able to tell their truth or tell their version of the story. And the only thing I'm. You know, I wish we were able to have Diddy be in the doc so he could have said some things that, you know, make people understand why people are saying these things about.
- [39:36]
A
Him. The outreach went to his team, and they gave denials, but he didn't want to participate. Yeah. You have a juror in here. The. The film looks at all of this horror, but then finds that a jury of his peers in New York, ultimately, in this era, said they didn't. The government did not prove the whole RICO.
- [39:54]
B
Case.
- [39:56]
Yeah, I mean, I think it's really complicated, and I think that to break down what went right and what maybe went left or wrong in that trial is a whole. That's a whole nother documentary. But I think that, you know, we have two jurors, two very different types of New Yorkers, you know, that. That were interviewed in the film. And I think that when you talk to them, I mean, it was very clear to me that they stood behind that decision. They stood behind it.
- [40:22]
A
1000%.
- [40:23]
B
Because. Because they felt that based on the charges that were presented by the federal government and that. That is that they could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Sean Combs was guilty of, you know, rico. Rico.
- [40:38]
A
Yeah. That they.
- [40:39]
B
Overcharged. That they overcharged. I think that when you get into the, you know, I don't know if our laws or a legal. Legal system are the best when it comes to the gray matter of the sexual.
- [40:52]
F
Assault. They had tanks out in front of his house, all right? Like, they. They made a bigger, more extreme approach to the.
- [41:01]
A
Investigation. So you. You think the government did basically mishandle what was still strong.
- [41:06]
F
Evidence. They did overdo.
- [41:07]
A
It. They overdid.
- [41:08]
F
It. They did great. He beat the case. To me, that what he was charged with, that. That's a victory like that. To end up with 50 months when you had. When your life on the line.
- [41:21]
A
Is a victory, when he comes out and it's not that long from now.
- [41:28]
He reenters this world. He's got a stack of civil cases that could bankrupt even the wealthiest people. And you give voice to some of those accusers and individuals. What do you think the future should hold for Diddy? Should he be re. You know, sort of re. Embraced or.
- [41:45]
F
Not? I don't know if.
- [41:47]
E
He.
- [41:49]
I.
- [41:49]
F
Don'T know why he didn't file bankruptcy like it would have indicated to.
- [41:55]
To the sharks that even if you see blood in the water, there's not that much.
- [42:00]
A
Blood.
- [42:01]
F
Right. Because the lawyers, they came with so many lawsuits, it's like 80 different civil.
- [42:06]
B
Suits. So I think he also underestimated that a lot. I mean, some of, you know, with every celebrity, you do have different claims and some are completely unfounded. But I think that some of these lawsuits, there's receipts and there's footage and there's voice recordings. And I think that for a man, it's also very interesting, you know, for the culture of hip hop. You know, so many artists record themselves and they probably when they were, you know, recording themselves in 2005, never saw the year 2025 and how accessible that media would be to actually make a case for things. And I think that's a big part of the gumbo of Sean Combs and what he's dealing.
- [42:45]
A
With. Thanks to both of you for joining.
- [42:47]
B
Us. Thank.
- [42:48]
A
You.
- [42:51]
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Tonight we've covered some sex crimes issues of a serious Nature from Epstein to Sean Diddy Combs. And if you want to see some of our coverage, you can go to Ms. Now. Ari that's Ms. N O W our new name, Same channel Ari. And you get our YouTube playlist. For example, tonight you could see on there some of that 50 Cent interview we did, if that interests you, or some of our recent videos you might have missed from the last several days. You can bookmark that and consult it anytime you want to take a video, send it around. You can email it to friends and family or just join us Again tomorrow at 6pm Eastern. This message is brought to you by Apple Card Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything thing like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs bank usa Salt Lake City Branch Terms and more at applecard. Com.