Obama Rallies for Voting Rights After Trump's Plots

Summary

The Beat with Ari Melber: "Obama Rallies for Voting Rights After Trump's Plots"

Air Date: July 16, 2026
Host: Ari Melber
Main Guests: Eugene Robinson, Michael McKean
Special Features: Exclusive Obama comments on voting rights and Trump, deep-dive on Senator Susan Collins and press freedom under Trump

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into two major political battlegrounds: the accountability of Senator Susan Collins (R-ME) regarding Roe v. Wade and her record as a self-styled moderate, and the growing anti-press tactics of the Trump administration, with a focus on the New York Times' legal fight against government subpoenas. The episode then features powerful commentary from Barack Obama on voting rights and democratic threats posed by Trump and current Republican leaders. An enlightening cultural segment, touching on McCarthyism’s modern echoes, is brought through an interview with actor Michael McKean.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Susan Collins’ “Centrist” Brand Under Fire

(Starts at 01:29)

• Senate control could hinge on Maine: Democrats just replaced their Senate nominee due to a scandal, with Collins’ vulnerability in focus.
• Collins’ “moderate” narrative challenged: Ari Melber lays out how Collins’ career has been defined by professed centrism and defense of abortion rights—a claim systematically undermined by her actions, notably her pivotal vote for Brett Kavanaugh and other Trump judicial picks.
• Abortion rights and broken promises:
  • Collins historically claimed to support Roe v. Wade and vowed to oppose anti-Roe judges, but cast the deciding vote confirming Kavanaugh—directly contradicting her own stated standards.
  • Quote, Susan Collins (04:35): "I would not support a nominee who demonstrated hostility to Roe v. Wade because that would mean to me that their judicial philosophy did not include a respect for established decisions."
  • Despite Kavanaugh's record, she voted yes, giving key support to what became the decision to overturn Roe.
• Backlash and political fallout:
  • Collins’ explanation was seen as disingenuous, drawing national ire and parody (including SNL).
  • Quote, SNL Collins impression (10:04): "That's why I told everyone to tune in at 3pm so I could tell all my female supporters, psych," underscoring her reversal on abortion.
  • Collins’ disapproval rating now at 58%. Maine voters voice that she’s “not listening,” with calls for change growing (10:45).

The Evolution of Collins’ Record

(14:53)

• Decades in office:
  • Early career: Truly independent (~60/40 with GOP).
  • Trump era: Alignment with Trump/MAGA agenda rises (to 85+%, now 95%).
  • Quote, Ari Melber (14:53): “Not political opinions, not her political speeches about being concerned, but her actual voting record over time...super MAGA now...all the way up to 95% MAGA, including on all kinds of consequential items...”
• “Concerned” without action: Collins’ habitual expression of “concern” has become a hallmark, but without meaningful legislative courage.
  • Clip montage, Susan Collins (11:53): "I have a number of concerns. I'm also concerned…I am very concerned."
  • Melber highlights the disconnect: “Collins is always concerned, but never courageous.” (12:00)

Broken Vows and Gerontocracy

(20:54)

• Collins campaigned on self-imposed term limits (“12 years is long enough,” 20:54) but is running for a 6th term, potentially serving until age 80.
• Quote, Susan Collins (20:54): “12 years is long enough to be in public service, make a contribution, and then come home and let someone else take your place.”
• Melber: “She has become the problem she campaigned against…”

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2. Press Freedom under Trump: The New York Times Battles DOJ

(25:30)

• This segment delves into Trump’s increasingly authoritarian tactics against independent media.
• NYT is challenging new DOJ subpoenas targeting journalists, which their editor calls “abusive, improper, bad faith.”
  • NYT Executive Editor (26:21): “It’s really essential to American democracy that that kind of erosion of press freedoms not happen here.”
• DOJ officials stonewall Senate questions about coordination with Trump’s White House in these investigations.
• Eugene Robinson (29:40): “This is not…procedures that historically have been followed…has not been, at least in my career as a journalist…I would say there has not been since Richard Nixon, perhaps this sort of all out assault on the press...”
• Subpoenas issued within 48 hours of reporting: “That doesn’t happen—even under Nixon it was months or years. These were nearly immediate.” (Eugene Robinson, 30:49)
• Melber (31:42): The rush and lack of real investigation may doom the subpoenas legally for “straining the credibility of whether there is a known national security crime.”
• Robinson (32:18): “What they’re trying to do is chill the atmosphere...intimidate the media from reporting, again, things that the government doesn’t want you to know.”

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3. Obama Raises Alarm on Voting Rights and Democratic Backsliding

(34:40)

• Barack Obama, in conversation with Malcolm Gladwell, voices grave concerns over voting rights and the hard right turn in US politics.
  • Notable quote, Obama (34:40): “We’re having debates now about voting rights and you got a Supreme Court that has systematically weakened the possibilities of enforcing voting rights in our democracy. And we have a politics now that to at least one of our major party has been captured by politics that is not that subtle about suggesting that ‘we the people’ means a certain kind of people.”
• On “blood and soil” rhetoric: Eugene Robinson (35:58) references current Republican figures deploying nativist and exclusionary rhetoric, with clear racial undertones.
• Melber (36:29): “Blood and soil can send us backwards to a time that most people don’t actually...want to live in, where...it only matters what you look like.”

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4. Echoes of McCarthyism: Michael McKean on Modern Witch Hunts

(39:33)

• Feature interview with Michael McKean (actor/playwright), starring in the revival of “Are You Now or Have You Ever Been,” a play drawn from McCarthy-era congressional transcripts.
  • McKean (40:10): “A lot of it seems awfully familiar…people have made that comment…‘wow, it’s still going on’...It’s a very different power we’re fighting here.”
• Reading from actual 1947 transcripts reminds listeners of the real human cost of government overreach and mob justice.
  • McKean (41:34): “It’s an awful thing—what was done to the character of a good man. A lot of people were taken off at the knees. It was a very grim time. Now here it all happens in the little thing in our pockets. We can cancel people like that.”
• On courage vs. survival:
  • “Not everyone comes across all that well because people were faced with enormous penalties…If you don’t find exactly the right way to frame your recent past, your future’s going to get awful dark.” (40:55)
• Melber raises the question: is it cowardly to save yourself when the crushing power of the state is turned against you? McKean’s answer is nuanced, citing the real plight of figures like Larry Parks.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Susan Collins on Kavanaugh (04:35): “I would not support a nominee who demonstrated hostility to Roe v. Wade…”
• SNL Collins (10:04): “So I could tell all my female supporters, psych,” lampooning her broken promise on abortion rights.
• Susan Collins on term limits (20:54): “12 years is long enough to be in public service...”
• Obama on Voting Rights Crisis (34:40): “We’re having debates now about voting rights and you got a Supreme Court that has systematically weakened the possibilities of enforcing voting rights in our democracy…‘we the people’ means a certain kind of people.”
• Eugene Robinson on press subpoenas (29:40): “There has not been since Richard Nixon, perhaps this sort of all out assault on the press and on the media…”
• Michael McKean (41:34): “It’s an awful thing—what was done to the character of a good man. Now here it all happens in the little thing in our pockets. We can cancel people like that.”
• McKean’s career advice (45:17): “If there is [a secret], I think it’s not worrying about how you’re doing anytime...It just removes the art from your heart. It really does.”

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:29–12:00: Senator Susan Collins—moderation challenged, abortion rights, Kavanaugh, Maine dynamics
• 14:53–23:03: Collins' voting record, rise in MAGA alignment, broken term limits promise
• 25:30–33:39: Press freedom under Trump, New York Times sues DOJ, Eugene Robinson explains dangers
• 34:40–36:29: Obama and Robinson on voting rights, white supremacy, “blood and soil” rhetoric
• 39:33–46:22: Michael McKean—McCarthyism, performance, modern analogues
• 45:07–46:08: Michael McKean’s advice on artistic longevity

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Conclusion

This episode dissects the myth vs. reality of “moderation” in American politics through the lens of Susan Collins’ legacy and reflects on the threats to democracy and press freedom in the Trump era, supported by historical perspective and cultural commentary. Barack Obama's warnings add gravity to the stakes around voting rights. The show closes with a rich, thought-provoking exploration of past and present "witch hunts" and the artistry of resilience.

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Note:
This summary omits all advertisements, unrelated intros/outros, and focuses exclusively on core content, original reporting, and interviews.

Transcript

[Ari Melber]

Join me Cyndi Lauper with chef Michelle Bernstein and Dr. Panico to talk about

[Susan Collins]

psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, the potential connection and risk of developing permanent joint damage.

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[Ari Melber]

I'm Ari Melber. Our top story is my special report tonight on accountability for the MAGA enabler, Senator Susan Collins. Later, I want you to know we have those new Obama comments going at Trump and Vance, plus the New York Times fighting back, taking the DOJ to court for what it calls abusive, illegal subpoenas for journalists. But we begin with this major midterm news. Democrats replacing their Senate nominee in Maine after Graham Platner dropped out over serious sexual assault allegations, which he denies. Now Democrats need just four seats to take back the Senate. Maine is a top prospect because it's a Democratic state. Voters there backed Harris by seven points just last election. It went blue if you check in the last nine presidential races in a row. And yet this blue state has a Republican senator in Susan Collins, and she's won five elections there largely by making the case that this is what she claims. She tells voters she's a centrist, that she believes in compromise and bipartisanship, that she's a proponent of women's health, often claiming, as I'll show you, that she will be a defender of abortion rights in the Senate. And as you see, she says to this year, she is an independent voice. But these claims have been falling apart over time. So tonight, after the understandable attention on the Democratic ticket in that state, right now we turn to a special report on why Maine is such a focus in the first place. It's because of its vulnerable, embattled and sometimes misleading incumbent senator. And the choice facing Maine voters is, as I just showed you, with just a handful of states that matter, a place where their choice, if you're watching in Maine, your choice could determine the control of the entire United States Senate in just a few short months. So for Maine voters, one of the key hurdles for electing any Republican senator has been Roe v. Wade. Abortions rights, women's rights. Most voters there are pro choice. But as we all know, you're watching the news, so you know, Republicans have long demanded, as a litmus test requirement, no negotiation. They will only put pro life judges on the Supreme Court. And so Collins has spent years trying to tamp down what is a volcanic issue for her at home by vowing to oppose judges who are against Roe. She campaigned as a pro choice candidate since her 1996 election. She said she supported Roe and she accepted donations from pro abortion rights groups. Open Secrets has documented that she also told voters that she was vowing to oppose any Supreme Court nominee who would overturn Roe v. Wade. That goes years back. And she said it over and over. That was the main thing her constituents saw as the problem with having a Republican senator.

[Susan Collins]

I would not support a nominee who demonstrated hostility to Roe v. Wade because that would mean to me that their judicial philosophy did not include a respect for established decisions.

[Ari Melber]

She wouldn't do that, wasn't going to do that. Said that over and over. Now, you might recall Trump's nominee, Brett Kavanaugh, was clearly a conservative activist with a conservative judicial record. He was likely to overturn Roe. Experts and activists loudly noted that in real time before his confirmation vote. And just to be crystal clear, Donald Trump himself said he would only pick among a list of pro life judges suggested by pro life or anti abortion legal groups. So this whole thing was organized as, hey, we're only looking at that kind of judge. And Kavanaugh, as you may recall, faced skepticism for many reasons. He lost the vote of another Republican senator, Lisa Murkowski. They needed Collins vote to get to 50. And she'd made a big show of sharing her concerns raising Roe and these issues in her meeting with him, which drove headlines about what she would do in the End after everything I just showed you, everything she told Maine voters for years. She then came out casting the 50th vote for justice Kavanaugh, breaking the thrust of her promise which she memorably tried to explain. Casting this key anti abortion vote, this pro life vote, this anti Roe vote, she tried to explain it in a long and winding floor speech. The day of that vote

[Susan Collins]

ain't pledged to nominate only judges who would overturn Roe. There has also been considerable focus on the future of abortion rights based on the concern that Judge Kavanaugh would seek to overturn Roe v. Wade. Protecting this right is important to me, the judge asserted to me a long established precedent. It's not something to be trimmed, narrowed, discarded or overlooked. Mr. President, I will vote to confirm Judge Kavanaugh.

[Ari Melber]

The ayes are 50, the nays are 48. There you have it, one of the most significant votes of Collins career. A vote that was crucial to putting Kavanaugh on the court. He was selected and announced from that list of pro life judges and at the first judicial opportunity they got within about four years. Kavanaugh was crucial to that new MAGA majority. Thanks to Susan Collins. Gutting Roe v. Wade. Breaking news from the Supreme Court at this hour. The justices handing down the highly anticipated ruling on abortion.

[Susan Collins]

Roe was a 50 year old precedent

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that had been reaffirmed by the Supreme

[Susan Collins]

Court itself multiple times. That did not matter to them.

[Ari Melber]

People here talking about that feeling of moving backwards, the Roe v Wade reversal, sending thousands of Americans into the streets.

[Susan Collins]

This decision is really seen as devastating

[Ari Melber]

to so many women across this country. You might remember where you were when a decision that large came down. You certainly can remember what had shifted. These Trump justices got on the court. It was the new law of the land. It was actually the first time in the modern era that the Supreme Court reversed its own precedent for an established right, basically taking a right that the court had recognized back. It was thanks to Trump's new members on that court and Collins vote to get them there. And what did she have to say? Well, she continued her political act for Maine where she deploys her power to gut abortion rights, a power vested in her only by the people of Maine, having reelected her and then claiming a kind of confusion and shock at the consequences of her very foreseeable actions. Collins came out that day. I just showed you what the mood was like in the country and said. She criticized the new ruling as ill considered radical, throwing out a precedent, sowing political chaos, anger and a further loss of confidence in her government. Almost as if she herself were not a part of the government that explicitly put Kavanaugh on the court. In that statement, she did try to address that and mention that two of the Trump justices she helped put on the court, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, had told her otherwise. And so she said it was inconsistent with what they said in their meetings with me, that they went ahead and did this thing that Trump said was the reason they were being put on the court. Gutting Roe v. Wade. It is not a shocker that the president's pro life judges ruled as pro life judges after Collins gave them that blank check back in Maine. People were angry. The voters, some of whom did believe Collins politicking, were especially furious. Her approval had already been crashing. Then there was a flooding of a fund for her opponent that actually also did a different type of crashing. It crashed that website there. And the joke was on Maine voters. More people were waking up to that. Just as the SNL impression of Collins captured the kind of the joke after she helped Kavanaugh get confirmed.

[Susan Collins]

This was all Susan. Oh, please. The last thing I wanted was to make this about me. That's why I told everyone to tune in at 3pm so I could tell all my female supporters, psych,

[Ari Melber]

psych. That's SNL boiling down the Susan Collins dance to its essence and what she said there to her female supporters as well as other abortion rights supporters in the blue state of Maine. Now, today, I can tell you Collins has a roughly 58 disapproval rating that's very negative, very high. And from the nomination hearings to these more recent times, people are getting fed up.

[Susan Collins]

He is not hearing Maine women. I'm a Democrat, but I have always voted for Susan Collins until this year. She has just.

[Ari Melber]

She's just capitulated. She's not listening to what the people of Maine want anymore. Collins has been there way longer than

[Eugene Robinson]

she should have been.

[Ari Melber]

And it's time for a change. That's a big dynamic when you listen to some of the voters. Calls for change. That of course predate the recent main news, which is the Democrats search for the right candidate to run against her. But Collins concerned dance about judicial nominees extends to a lot of other issues. It's kind of like her main political move at this point. Some view it as a shtick that has become such a kind of recurring recycled and unreliable nod to a type of fake moderation that the script has become kind of a running joke, at least in the informed or nerdy political circles where people track each individual senator have noticed her doing this and it's a theme in some campaign ads. For 30 years in Washington, she's been very concerned.

[Susan Collins]

I have a number of concerns. I'm also concerned.

[Ari Melber]

Collins is always concerned, but never courageous,

[Eugene Robinson]

caving to Trump on health care concerned on affordability, concerned on ice concerned.

[Susan Collins]

I am very concerned.

[Ari Melber]

She is concerned and she has found this has worked so far. Being concerned without actually doing anything about the issue that affects the voters, the people of this country has kind of become vintage Collins. All public performance, very little action. So if you're watching in Maine or you know people there and you want the actual facts on how her concerns line up with how much she now votes with Trump as a MAGA enabler across the board, I will show you that record just the facts when our special report returns in 90 seconds. Join me, Cyndi Lauper, with Chef Michelle Bernstein and Dr. Panico to talk about psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, the potential connection

[Susan Collins]

and risk of developing permanent joint damage.

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[Ari Melber]

Our special report on Senator Susan Collins continues now with her actual record. This is just election facts as people get ready to make up their own minds in this election because many Maine voters say they feel like Collins used to be more moderate or independent and that later it seems like she just skates on that brand but undercuts it, has become more of a MAGA Trump enabler. So let's look at the actual record. Not political opinions, not her political speeches about being concerned, but her actual voting record over time. And the truth is actually nuanced. Some good for her back in the day and super MAGA now, because the truth is in Collins first 20 years or so in the Senate, she was basically 60, 40 when it came to backing GOP colleagues. And that is actually very independent by congressional senior standards, meaning most members of both parties are more partisan, voting at a much higher rate than 59% than she was. And so early on she did vote more independently. Then in the Trump era, that shot up to over 85%. And in the current term, which is what voters are assessing right now, all the way up to 95% Maga, including on all kinds of consequential items and the big ticket items like life tenure for Trump's judicial nominees. And while many Senate Republicans strongly backed Trump in that Ukraine shakedown impeachment trial, saying he was innocent, we got the concern thing from Collins. This was obviously a big topic and she tried her hand at the moderate type of double talk that has apparently worn thin with some Maine voters. So go back to the first term and the type of alleged lawlessness, allegedly impeachable offense is what people debated and how she was playing it. She gave him the exact same partisan vote of support as other Republicans in his first impeachment, which was about trying to abuse his power over Ukraine to have a fake investigation into an opponent. Sound familiar? And she gave him an out, gave him an acquittal, gave him full bill of health, but tossed in the classic claim that I would tell you even most Trump supporters wouldn't necessarily agree with. You know, Steve Bannon touts Trump all the time, but he rarely describes Trump as a contrite learner of lessons.

[Susan Collins]

I believe that the president has learned from this case. What do you believe the president has learned? The president has been impeached. That's a pretty big lesson. I'm voting to acquit. I hope that the president has Learned his lesson, but we'll have to see.

[Ari Melber]

You could just sort of hear the sighs across the country. She does hope he learned his lesson, but we will have to see. Well, this is an accountability update in our special report. So for Senator Collins, we saw when Trump fomented a violent insurrection later, pardoning and embracing and even trying to fund the cast of MAGA thugs who literally bum rushed the Capitol, attacked, manhandled and battered police, as you see in this disturbing video. Much of these videos were taken by them because they were proud of being against police. They were proud of being against America. They were documenting it themselves because their president told them to do it and later pardoned them for it. However delusionally anti police and anti American they looked, they were right about one thing. This was what Trump wanted and he did let them out of prison for as they rushed the floor of the Senate. Lawless violence to steal an election. Now, later, Collins did vote to convict him of those offenses when he didn't learn his lesson. And I will state, had other Republicans joined her, they might have disqualified Trump legally from ever returning to office. Collins spoke out against Trump's violent mob on the Senate floor. During that second impeachment trial,

[Susan Collins]

a mob stormed the Capitol determined to stop Congress from carrying out our constitutional duty. It was the culmination of a steady stream of provocations, provocations by President Trump intimidating and threatening the election officials in Georgia. President Trump's falsehoods convinced a large number of Americans that he had one and that they were being cheated.

[Ari Melber]

That was Collins rebuking Trump's lies and his role in the insurrection. And that's important because that's where she landed. If you take her to word, that's what she thought about him. And now with Trump back in office, she is voting with him and his agenda and supporting him more often than any time in her Senate career. So she said that was the problem. But she's 95% with Trump now. Collins is also vulnerable like some other incumbents because of the larger revolt against the out of touch, aging incumbent politician population. And that's across both parties. Calls for generational change are rampant as long serving incumbents cling to power. We've seen that in primaries, Democratic and Republican. And in the case of Collins, she's also outlived her own vows back when she was a younger, newer leader, way back in the day, decades ago, she was tapping into the actual sentiment that we see today issuing what would become, I'll just warn you, another broken vow to Maine voters.

[Susan Collins]

I have pledged that if I'm elected, I will only serve two terms, regardless of whether term limits law, a constitutional amendment passes or not. 12 years is long enough to be in public service, make a contribution, and then come home and let someone else take your place.

[Ari Melber]

That's what she said. And she broke that vow. Had she honored it, she'd actually had to have stepped away from the Senate back in 2009. Now she's breaking that vow again this election cycle, seeking what would be her sixth term. If she wins, she would complete that term. At age 80, Susan Collins is a charter member of the very political class she ran to oppose, breaking her own vows, clinging to office for another term, part of this aging gerontocracy with often sclerotic ideas that insist on trying to rule over what appears to measurably be a majority. Desperate for new leadership, Collins is a long ways from the upstart candidate who was advocating sweeping changes and said that was needed over incremental steps.

[Susan Collins]

It is very important that we recognize the many successes and the exciting projects and the innovations that are going on every day throughout the state. We can't do with incremental changes. We need sweeping changes.

[Ari Melber]

Sweeping changes, term limits, pro choice leadership. It's almost like every big thing she emphasized she has broken. That was from Collins running for governor in a race she actually lost to angus King in 1994. Update to our Senate today. King is 82, serving as the junior senator with fewer years in the body than Collins from their same state. She's now running to hit 36 years total. If you're counting, that's three times longer than the cap she claimed to set for herself. And yet, as Collins told Maine voters,

[Susan Collins]

12 years is long enough to be in public service, make a contribution, and then come home and let someone else take your place.

[Ari Melber]

12 years is long enough. So she said many Maine voters now do seem to agree with what has become a discredited claim from their representative who has become the problem she campaigned against, at least on the issue of incumbency. Collins has added that vow to several others that I showed you she broke in pursuit of this lifetime of power, perhaps regardless of the cost to her state or her own credibility. Now to channel the incumbent with that trail of broken promises. A main voter might look at all this, that we just saw the facts, the record her own claims and actions and say, you know, this is concerning. You might even say it's very concerning. Or the voters might do something different than their aging incumbent. They might actually do something about it. Hey, there. I'm Kat.

[Susan Collins]

I'm a college athlete. I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis which

[Ari Melber]

caused back pain and stiffness.

[Susan Collins]

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[Susan Collins]

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[Ari Melber]

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[Susan Collins]

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[Michael McKean]

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[Ari Melber]

What do you do with autocracy? Do you cave or do you fight? Sounds like kind of a basic question. And yet we've seen law firms, corporations and all kinds of groups just pack up and cave, at least in the beginning of Trump's second term. Tonight we turn to how some are fighting, especially on the First Amendment. The New York Times is punching back, filing a motion basically taking the government Trump DOJ to court to try to get these subpoenas of journalists quashed. Trump was growing furious, reportedly over security problems with his jet gift. The Times lawyer says these new DOJ subpoenas against journalists are abusive, improper, bad faith, the theme we've reported on and that some judges in different cases have already found to be a problem for the Trump doj. The Times executive editor saying this

[Susan Collins]

I've

[Ari Melber]

been a foreign correspondent in China and I've seen the way an authoritarian government can keep journalists from reporting on a huge amount of news and information that's very clearly in the public interest. It's really essential to American democracy that that kind of erosion of press freedoms not happen here The Times, of course, has its own news section where it tries to cover these issues fairly, objectively, including even when the government's going after them. And then through their leadership, their lawyers, what you just saw there, just like Jack Smith has been speaking out, they seem to understand that in today's world and media, political environment, they also have to go beyond the courtroom and tell the public the value of what they say they do and why they're fighting. Trump is also trying to hunt leakers. He's talking to people who traveled on the jet. He wants some people potentially to have to turn over their phones and figure out who might have talked to the Times. Notice how that fact or reporting hurts Trump and helps the Times. It suggests that they have accurate sources, people who were on the plane telling them true things, eyewitness accounts about what happened. And that undercuts the government argument that they would be able to subpoena these reporters, for example, if there were illegal leaks, that would go to the leakers, people who work for Trump, not whether the journalists have accurate sources. Meanwhile, Trump's nominee for intelligence was very cagey in discussing these controversial subpoenas. I wanted to ask you, Mr. Clayton, about the subpoenas of the New York Times reporters. I can't get into the specifics of

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[Ari Melber]

Did you or anybody at the Southern District of New York have conversations with anybody at the White House or the justice department in Washington D.C. before you issued those subpoenas? I can say it this way without

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getting into the investigation. The protocols require consultation.

[Ari Melber]

Did anybody in Washington D.C. suggest to you or anybody on your team that you should issue subpoenas in this case? I'm not going to get into the details. What I can tell you is that we followed those procedures. So you can see the Senate bearing down on multiple nominees about this. It's broader than this recent story. In fact, we hear about the normalizing and sort of way that people get accustomed to this. The fact that Trump's doing it repeatedly doesn't make it any more okay constitutionally. Indeed, they have lost a bunch of rounds on the court. And the Times jet story is one of several. There have been subpoenas attempted for journalists there and the Post, the Murdoch owned Wall Street Journal. They've indicted journalists like Don Levin and Georgia Ford and they have tried to abuse government power to retaliate or silence comedians. I want to bring in Eugene Robinson, a Puls Prize winning writer, reporter, Ms. Now analyst who was with the Post for a long time. Welcome, Gene. I mentioned that they're trying to normalize this even as some of the cases have floundered. Do you see it as important that the Times is not only fighting this in court, but also vocalizing why this is, in their view, harassment of their First Amendment rights?

[Eugene Robinson]

It's important and necessary that the Times is fighting these subpoenas because as the Times editor Joe Conn said in that video, these are being issued in bad faith. And this is not contrary to what was said in the hearing. These are not the procedures that historically have been followed. This is not the first administration to ever subpoena a reporter. It has happened before. There has not been, at least in my career as a journalist. I would say there has not been since Richard Nixon, perhaps this sort of all out assault on the press and on the media and on its ability, its right to tell the public things that the government doesn't want it to know. And that's one of our core functions. Right. And that's why we are enshrined in the First Amendment, because the government is not going to tell you everything and everything that you need to know. And what's very different about these cases, especially this case, the subpoenas to the New York Times reporters, is these subpoenas were issued something like within 48 hours of when the story appeared. That doesn't happen in the very rare cases in the past in which Nixon administrations have subpoenaed reporters. It has been after months and years of other investigation. The procedures are to do everything else you possibly can do to get the information you're seeking before you move towards subpoenaing reporters. And that was clearly not done in this case.

[Ari Melber]

Right. And that Rush, which shows how pliant the Justice Department has become under Trump, may ultimately doom the subpoenas because although it's a fairly low bar, people have heard about this. People know at trial beyond a reasonable doubt, high bar, low bar, probable cause that a crime occurred, not necessarily by the New York Times. And yet your point is getting it out the door within 48 hours after the story really strains the credibility of whether there is a known national security crime that they've taken any care to investigate at all? Gene?

[Eugene Robinson]

Absolutely. They haven't had time to do any sort of investigation, much less a proper investigation. So what exactly is the crime? What secrets do they think were disclosed that were not, stuff that was not already known? I don't think it was a secret that there were measures on Air Force One that would protect the president in potential hostile situations. That's what most Americans, I think would expect. And so if it's not revealing that fact, which again was already known, then what was the crime they're supposedly investigating? The answer, I think, is that they're not. What they're trying to do is they're trying to chill the atmosphere, to freeze it, really. They're trying to make potential sources, whistleblowers, less likely to tell their stories and they're trying to intimidate the media from reporting, again, things that the government doesn't want you to know.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And the Times and the Post where you're alma mater stepping up where other folks and law firms haven't. So that's also giving people say, why is this in the news? Well, cause they're fighting back. Gene, great to see you. Thank you, sir. By the end of the hour, we have Michael McKean here. You know him from so many of his great works. He's got a new very political play in New York. But next, Barack Obama punching back. We'll show you what he said. We don't hear from former President Obama all that often. That is the norm of most former presidents. But he has been a little louder lately with his presidential center media around that and a few more conversations. So Obama, with a widely regarded author, Malcolm Gladwell, also a New Yorker writer, have this new conversation out. It's part of a history podcast, Obama discussing Trump's attacks on democracy.

[Eugene Robinson]

We're having debates now about voting rights and you got a Supreme Court that has systematically weakened the possibilities of enforcing voting rights in our democracy. And we have a politics now that to at least one of our major party has been captured by politics that is not that subtle about suggesting that we the people means a certain kind of people.

[Ari Melber]

Barack Obama has always been known for his sobriety, his calm, the hope that he sold in his campaigns. That's about as close as you're going to get to hearing him address the big problem in America right now, which is weaponized, proud and sometimes violent white supremacy. Now, Obama is careful with his words. He's lived both sides of this line in our politics. So it's also interesting hearing him discuss what he called the nativist. Again, that could be racist rhetoric and sort of perceived jurisprudence of J.D. vance.

[Eugene Robinson]

When you have the vice president, the current vice president, making a speech that is basically a blood and soil version of we the people, that it matters who your parents were and how long they've been here, despite him being married to an immigrant daughter of an immigrant himself. So all these issues are still being debated,

[Ari Melber]

debated and blood and soil can Send us backwards to a time that most people don't actually really want to live in, where it doesn't matter whether you participate in the rules and laws of this country. It only matters what you look like. I'm going to fit in a break. When we come back, some very prescient warnings about modern McCarthyism and the lessons of how to fight back. Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. Look, you've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency? If there was a single moment that turned the tide against the right wing mob justice of the Red Scare, it was very likely. That question from the Army Council addressing Senator Joe McCarthy rebutting another round of baseless accusations of Communism. It's a line often quoted by later admirers of that kind of courage against a runaway government. It also is, by the way, sampled on the song Caught their Eyes, Jay Z and Frank Ocean, showing the relevance that lasted over 60 years. Now, that sort of breaking moment in the Senate came after the government had harassed and ruined many other lives through the House UN American Activities Committee, which you probably remember learning about it, at least in school. It was basically a kind of witch hunt program with that Orwellian title, who is un American? Which pressed against perceived opponents, artists, critics. And it asked that Kafkaesque question, are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? Be careful how you answer because even your honest answer might make it seem like a fair question to press on others. Which is why it was a kind of group harassment campaign. And that brings us to are you now or have you ever been now a play in New York, reviving a 1972 show by bringing this history to life. The dialogue is from actual congressional transcripts. The parallels today are clear. You probably don't need a news anchor to explain them, as now we have even the mightier powers of the presidency. Not a congressional probe unleashed against sometimes artists in comics we've seen, and journalists, as in the McCarthy era, as well as probes and indictments of prominent members of the opposition party. It's almost become normalized just a few years into the second term. Michael McKean plays the committee chair in the play a serious role for an artist whose breadth ensures you have seen him in something. From Laverne and Shirley to Better Call Saul to the mockumentary this Is Final Tap, beloved by music fans everywhere. I'm in love with lover.

[Eugene Robinson]

Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse

[Michael McKean]

if I weren't under such heavy sedation. Oh, that is so invigorating. Thank you very much. And thank you Saturday Night Live for having me on the program. But if you want to know who killed Mr. Boddy, I did. In the hall with the revolver.

[Ari Melber]

Okay, Chief, take him away.

[Michael McKean]

And out of hers a briar. Good night. Don't stay up all night watching old movies, stealing them blind.

[Ari Melber]

And he gets to be a lawyer. What a sick joke. I should have stopped him when I had the chance. Michael McCain is here, making his Beat debut. As mentioned, he's in this play. Are you now or have you ever been. And is an actor, musician, screenwriter, director, producer. Acclaimed and really known. People know you when they see you. Welcome to the show.

[Michael McKean]

Thank you very much. Nice to be here.

[Ari Melber]

Is this about the past or the present?

[Michael McKean]

I don't know. I don't know. A lot of it seems awfully familiar. And people have made that comment coming out of the. Out of the building at night. I run into people who say, wow, it's still going on. And of course it's different because like you said, it's a very different power we're fighting here. You can't dodge the truth because there are people taking stuff down, and they're going to come at you with everything you ever did. In our case, Lionel Stander and Larry Parks and Abe Burroughs and Ilya Kazan and Jerome Robinson. And not everyone comes across all that well because people were faced with enormous penalties for having done what they've done. And if you don't find exactly the right way to frame your recent past, your future is going to get awful dark.

[Ari Melber]

Let's look at the House UN American Activities Committee. This is 1947. The question is, have you ever been

[Susan Collins]

a member of the Communist Party?

[Ari Melber]

I am framing my answer in the only way in which any American citizen can frame his.

[Susan Collins]

Then you deny.

[Ari Melber]

Invades his. Absolutely invades.

[Susan Collins]

Then you deny.

[Ari Melber]

You refuse to answer that question.

[Susan Collins]

Is that correct?

[Ari Melber]

I have told you that I will offer my beliefs, my affiliations, give everything else to the American public. And they will know where I stand, as they do, from what I have witnessed.

[Michael McKean]

It's an awful thing. It's an awful thing what was done to the character of a good man. A lot of people were taken off at the knees. It was a very grim time. Now here it all happens in the little thing in our pockets. We can cancel people like that.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And then. And it's a different type of mob justice. I wonder if steeping yourself in this gave you any greater insight or thought about how we define courage and heroism. Because there's a traditional way where you say, well, here's the hero and they did the tough thing and then here's the coward. That period of history and the level of pressure on some people who didn't have a lot of money or power raises those other questions. What we refer to with naming names or are you automatically a coward if in some cases you had very little power in with and, and the government came down on you?

[Michael McKean]

I mean, in the case of Larry Parks, he was a guy who, in the early 40s, he was very idealistic and he wanted to make the world a better place. And he thought that the Communist Party would give that to him. He realized that it didn't and he was out of there. And then suddenly, 10 years later, he's being called before this committee and asked to, being asked to name names. And it was something that was, didn't come naturally to him. I keep trying to fit it in with today and things are so different, but it's still, it's still someone wants their bidding done.

[Ari Melber]

The Beat is a music oriented show.

[Michael McKean]

It is. Is it?

[Ari Melber]

That's why we have the lighters. Taking a new concert.

[Michael McKean]

Ah, okay.

[Ari Melber]

We love the Spinal Taps. Okay, let's take a look.

[Michael McKean]

Your first drummer was the beep on Stampy Peeps. Great, great. Tall blonde geek with glasses.

[Ari Melber]

Good drama.

[Michael McKean]

Great look. Good drama.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah,

[Michael McKean]

he died, he, he died in a bizarre gardening accident some years back.

[Ari Melber]

It's really one of those things. It was, you know, the authorities said,

[Michael McKean]

you know best leave it unsolved. Really?

[Ari Melber]

Wow.

[Michael McKean]

That was.

[Eugene Robinson]

Thank you.

[Michael McKean]

Thank you.

[Susan Collins]

I'm going to try and sort some clean.

[Michael McKean]

Is it coming this way? We really need someone who can take a step.

[Susan Collins]

We have Questlove on the line in

[Ari Melber]

the other room if you. This might solve more problems. There's something really funny about the seriousness and the almost the like particular obsessions of music documentaries. Because I'm in the news, I watch a lot of different types of documentaries. I like music music documentaries that are so extra, the kids would say. So is that part of what made that naturally funny or you guys starting out were like, we don't know if

[Eugene Robinson]

this is going to work?

[Michael McKean]

Well, we, I, I, I don't know. We just wanted to make something. We knew we wanted to make it in a documentary format. We knew that we didn't want to write a screenplay. We wanted to, to improvise. So we hired a lot of people who could improvise. We had some best in the business there with Paul Benedict and. And Howard Hessman just goes on and on. Franny Drescher, you know, who was. Who kind of walked and literally had us at hello. I mean, she just walked in as Bobby Fleckman.

[Ari Melber]

Do you like that? It's like a cult classic. You like hearing that?

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, I guess.

[Ari Melber]

So people swear by this film?

[Susan Collins]

Well, yeah.

[Michael McKean]

I mean, it took the sting out of not making any money the first time around, you know, and it was nice to be known as a cult classic.

[Ari Melber]

In closing, I'll ask you, is there a secret to having this great long career in Hollywood and beyond, which not everyone has?

[Michael McKean]

If there is one, I think it's not worrying about how you're doing anytime.

[Ari Melber]

I love that.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah. It's just I think there were people and I saw people coming up who were so obsessed with, how am I doing? How am I doing? I read for this thing that damn Tom Hanks got it again. Now what? There were people who, in one of Chris's films for your consideration, it becomes all about, how are we going to do on the night? How are we going to get nominated? And it just removes the art from your heart. It really does.

[Ari Melber]

Removes the art from your heart.

[Michael McKean]

Yes, it does.

[Ari Melber]

Bars.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, you got to just. You got to do the job first. If you're worrying about how it's landing, don't take off.

[Ari Melber]

You know, I love that Michael McKean. I'll remind everyone, if you're near New York, you can see are you now or have you ever been. It is playing through September and is as relevant as ever. Thanks for being here.

[Michael McKean]

Thank you very much.

[Ari Melber]

We have some local media news. I want to invite you to our next Ms. NOW live event. It's our we the People series and we're coming to Texas on September 26th. You can meet all of us in person there. Rachel, Jen, Lawrence, everybody. I'll be there. Go to Ms. Now Together. Ms. Now Together. Bookmark it for later or buy a ticket tonight if you know you'll be near Arlington. We'd love to see you. Real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section of a resume and you might throw away the perfect hire skills first. Hiring helps you see talent others miss. Like more than 70 million stars skilled through alternative routes let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage. Because hiring managers who start with skills are 60% more likely to find a successful hire. Hire skills first. Learn why@tear the paper ceiling.org brought to you by opportunityatwork and the ad council.