← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Residents on edge after attacks on MI Synagogue, VA college
00:45:55
The FBI and local law enforcement agencies give briefings on attacks on Temple Israel in West Boomfield, Michigan and Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia. Plus, the latest on the Iran war, with mideast strikes threatening economic upheaval. MS NOW’s Ari Melber reports and is joined by Marc Santia, Marq Claxton, Brian Katulis, and Dylan Ratigan.
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A
Welcome to the Beat. We are tracking the breaking news on two tragic attacks today. First, FBI and local officials are imminently planning to hold a briefing on the synagogue attack in West Bloomfield, Michigan. A suspect driving a car into Temple Israel. A suspect died after a confrontation with security officers, one of whom suffered minor injuries. At this hour, we have no reason to think anyone else was hurt. The situation under control and we're awaiting that briefing. Also today, really just quite a few hours earlier, a gunman opened fire at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia. One person killed, two others hurt. The gunman now dead, he had served in the Army National Guard and was previously convicted on attempting to support isis.
- [01:31]
D
The FBI is now the lead investigative agency investigating this as an act of terrorism. The shooter has been identified as Mohammed Baylor Jalo. In 2016, Jalo was arrested and pled guilty for attempting to provide material support to isil.
- [01:53]
A
I'm joined now by Mark Santiamis, now investigative reporter. He has been covering the synagogue attack for us today. And Mark Claxton, retired NYPD detective who can weigh in on both of these incidents. Mark, when you look at that link to a past terror history, what do you see here? I'm sorry, Mark. Mark Claxton. Yes, sir. That happens.
- [02:19]
E
Yeah, it does. The common link is the sense of what's going on around the world and a lot of the activity that's going on abroad and the difficulty that our Federal Bureau of Investigation, our federal enforcers, are having with timely, efficient, effective intelligence gathering and dissemination as well, that's an ongoing problem. And given the fact that there's been some significant changes in the manner in which they operate and a lot of the personnel who have a tremendous amount of experience in gathering intelligence information and analyzing it and thereby allowing others to plan and plot how to best secure ourselves, we're in a quandary. We're in a bad position and feeling especially vulnerable given today's events and what could happen moving forward.
- [03:22]
A
And Mark Claxton, how do authorities look at something like this in the wider context of a war with Iran, multiple countries involved? Unlike, say, some past examples, this president has not sort of gone out of his way to give a great or clear doctrine. He hasn't, pursuant to that, said much about whether we're in this for reason A, B or C. If you look at President Bush talked a lot initially about how the United States was not at war with Islam, didn't view it as a religious war, et cetera. I'm just curious about that broader context and then with your background, how the authorities look at that and look at people like this who have previously been tied to what they have is whatever a misshapen, pseudo religious terror agenda.
- [04:14]
E
I think the law enforcement agencies and the intelligence agencies are going to be very methodical about assessing what each individual incident actually is and what evidence comes out that can support the position that these things are direct, related to the actions, the military actions abroad and those items that you mentioned. I think it's a methodical investigation that's required. It's one that's going to be engaged. And really, I think the general concern is whether or not we still have in our federal agencies the expertise, the knowledge base that has served us well for many decades in dealing with what is currently our situation. And I think there's reason to be concerned, and I'm sure folks will continue to be concerned given that there seems to be escalating tensions abroad and that could bring in other individuals, other entities into this already very tenuous and dangerous situation. So it's a severe, vulnerable feeling for the nation and one that requires expertise in the law enforcement, intelligence community.
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A
And stay with us. Mark is here in our newsroom. What is your reporting finding today?
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F
All right, we're following up on West Bloomfield, the attack that was on Temple Israel. The latest, what we're catching, what we're being told. The suspect drove a truck through the doors and was driving through the hallway of Temple Israel in West Bloomfield. They have a security team, retired law enforcement, we're told. Retired law enforcement opened fire. At least nine shots were fired. The suspect was killed. One person was injured. That was a member of the security team where he was actually hit by the truck. We're told he was knocked unconscious. He's expected to make a full recovery. Um, right now, the investigation is going through, trying to learn more about the suspect, about a possible motive. We are told by law enforcement sources that investigators may have found explosive materials in the vehicle, not necessarily a functional ied, but components so they're looking at that. The ATF is on scene as well as the FBI working with local police. We're expecting a briefing shortly from Sheriff Michael Bouchard. He's from the Oakland County Sheriff's Department. Sort of bring us up to speed on just what is happening. But incredibly, no children. There were children inside. There was a half day parent teacher conferences. There were no. No children were injured. No employees. I'm told by people on the ground. Some of the employees from Temple Israel took off. They ran to other businesses. Those businesses sheltered in place. The community sort of coming together, taking care of people. But again, right now the focus is on the suspect. What was the motive? This investigation is really just beginning, Ari, in West Bloomfield, Michigan.
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A
Yeah, you mentioned we've got eyes on that briefing. When it does happen and you say motive, what are they looking at? When it is at a synagogue. So motive and targeting a synagogue is obviously one of the investigative questions.
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F
Absolutely. And we know that anti Semitic crime is on the rise. It's been on the rise. Law enforcement sources believe Temple Israel is one of the largest synagogues there in metro Detroit. They believe this was specifically targeted. This was also less than an hour away, Ari, back in September, there was a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Grand Blanc, in Grand Blanc, Michigan, that the suspect drove a truck into the church during service and opened fire again about an hour hour away from there. So looking at this, looking at attacks on faith based locations, we know the nypd, we know lapd. I was talking to Los Angeles police. They've been monitoring. They have police departments across the country monitoring what's happening in West Bloomfield, Michigan today. They're taking measures, moving assets to protect synagogues and other places across their cities. Because obviously what's happening here in West Bloomfield, Michigan, a very quiet, peaceful community is resonating throughout the country tonight.
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A
And it's very early days, of course, we'll see what we learn as we go. But same question to you on a different attack, but one that involves the potential overlap of issues in the Middle east and religion and Islam and Judaism. How do authorities fare it through that? Whether this is something that was planned anyway or already in development, or does this relate to the moment we're in right now? We are a country that's carrying out operations in the Middle East.
- [08:46]
F
You're absolutely right. And so just speaking with law enforcement sources, they're going to go through the suspect's social media. They'll go through and speak to any family members, neighbors, see if there were any comments Made you remember since, since the Iran war, since the Middle east conflict, we have seen a shooting in Austin, Texas. And looking at those sort of the background of that, that investigation's happening, Old Dominion. You have, you had the IEDs, the alleged IEDs that were thrown in New York. It didn't go off. So there are multiple investigations now and law enforcement from across the country sharing information. The FBI have federal, state and local working together to share information, to see what is and was the motive in some of these attacks.
- [09:32]
A
Mark Claxton, we spoke about the other attack today, but your views or anything you want to add on the synagogue
- [09:38]
E
attack, it's just important that people should be aware that there has been a history of federal authorities sharing sensitive intelligence information with houses of worship and other sensitive locations, too. So I'm sure there'll be an increase in information sharing and that may have actually been helpful in the synagogue making the determination to have its own security force there. So you never know. But that's very valuable, that information sharing, and it is ongoing with the houses of worship, schools and other census locations as well.
- [10:14]
A
And again to you, Mark Claxton, what do you say to people out in the country who have to go about their lives and we move piece by piece off the evidence? There's a lot we don't know yet, but about precautions people can take, if it feels like anecdotally or otherwise, we could be in a heightened security environment. And we read and there's other articles, again, to be clear, unrelated so far to this today, but we've seen other reporting and intelligence about potential wider threats that could emanate from Iran or how people are feeling. How should people go about their lives?
- [10:44]
E
I think people should pay attention and just be mindful that you want to act and go about your lives based on facts and those things that have been established clearly and not rumor and conjecture. And I think, as always, we should remain vigilant and aware of our surroundings on a daily basis. And given the times that we are in now and the actions abroad and some of the. The religious hostilities back and forth, it is imperative now that we really place an additional emphasis on being aware, situationally aware, and make sure you have your plans in order, if there are some emergency plans that would be helpful for you and your family in the event that there is some kind of emergency response that has to take place.
- [11:33]
A
Yeah. Thank you, Mark Claxton. Mark Santi has been covering this for us. We are watching that briefing room, as you saw. We will bring viewers that briefing on this Important event today, live when it happens tonight. Coming up, we turn to Iran. We have two experts there. We're back in 90 seconds. We are awaiting this press conference on the synagogue attack in Michigan. You're looking at a live set of pictures here out in West Bloomfield. They have been preparing, as you can see, to have the authorities come out. We will bring that to you live when it happens. Well, we turn now to the Mideast. The strikes there have been threatening economic upheaval. Donald Trump claimed that this was all wrapping up. He started the week trying to calm the oil markets with words. But they are reacting to a lot more than words at this hour. Overnight, we saw the images that sent shockwaves across the global markets. These are oil tankers on fire in the Persian Gulf after Iranian strikes has also stopped ships, of course, from reaching the crucial Strait of Hormuz. The key waterway, which is about 20% of the world's oil supply, moves through there. 19 tankers and cargo ships have been attacked. International Energy Agency says the war is now causing the biggest ever oil market disruption. However you count it, it is big, biggest ever, biggest in a decade. Donald Trump trying to downplay what the markets clearly see as important. Now, Iran also has a new supreme leader who is making his first remarks today, and he's talking about keeping that crucial oil strait closed. The attacks occurring after Trump urged captains to show some guts. Trump claims falsely when you look at the very videos of the reality here in the real world. He claims the Straits where you see these very dangerous fires burning, he claims they're safe. The straits are in great shape. We've knocked out all of their boats.
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They have some missiles, but not very many.
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A
I think we're in very good. We're in very good shape. The straits are not in good shape. Oil prices are up again. They're hovering around $100 per barrel. Gas prices up as well, rising 60 cents per gallon since Trump began this attack on Iran within the last two weeks. I'm joined now by Brian Katulis, who's worked at the National Security Council, the State Department and the Pentag with the Middle East Institute. Welcome.
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H
Thanks for having me.
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A
Ari, how bad is it in the straight there for the oil markets? And how foreseeable was this?
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H
It was entirely foreseeable. Iran has signaled for decades that it would actually take the measures that it is currently taking. And we don't seem to have a contingency plan to deal with what has been effectively the shutdown of this crucial waterway that has 20% of the world's energy supplies, going through it. Baffling to me that we're at this moment right now, given all of our military power and our might. And I think it's a consequence of President Trump not actually having a clarity of objective about what he's trying to do with the use of military force in Iran. Right now
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A
you have how much the war is also costing $11 billion in just these first 12 plus days. And that estimate doesn't include the cost of the operation, like building up the hardware and personnel. So this ticket price is going to go up. I want to show in that context Donald Trump and how he talks about or tries to frame what this is. Take a look.
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G
You just said it is a little excursion and you said it is a war. So which one is it?
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I
Well, it's both. It's both. It's an excursion that will keep us out of a war.
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D
You've said the war is, quote, very complete.
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J
But your defense Secretary says this is just the beginning. So which is it and how long should Americans be?
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A
Well, I think you could say it both. How should we understand that?
- [15:42]
H
Again, it's part of his confusing game that he plays. It's sort of like that game of three card Monty where street tricksters try to take people and their money from them. And it's really baffling to me because the situation has actually not gotten better over the last few days. And Donald Trump actually might want to think about releasing the Jeffrey Epstein files to distract people from how bad this war is going because it's hitting people at home, it's hitting in their pocketbooks. And I just filled up my gas tank a few days ago. I think a lot of Americans are hurting. And what I fear, as someone who follows the Middle east and talks to people in the region every day and several times a day that there is no clear end in sight. There are attempts at back channels, there are attempts to sort of lead to an off ramp here. But what we have is strikes without strategy. A strategy to actually make our partners safe, make our troops safe, and make even Israel safe. And you need to have that bigger long term end goal which we don't have.
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A
Right. The strikes are incapacitating part of Iran's ability to hit out. And beyond that, what is the United States air war like? I mean, presumably they have these plans over a certain amount of time. We mentioned your credentials and working on both Pentagon and diplomacy side of this. Do they run out of targets? What is the plan? If this is kind of the stalemate and Iran is Taking it.
- [17:09]
H
I don't think they have a plan here in terms of the political end state for certain. Our top general, General Kaine, he has a clearly precise objective, which is to eliminate Iran's capacity to impose a threat on its neighbors. That's a pretty tall order when you think about the drones that they have. When you think about the ballistic missiles, the Gulf states were hit with more than 3,000 of these projectiles over the last two weeks or so. And they've been pretty resilient, you know, and we them quite a lot. But Iran has many more drones and we have much more expensive military hardware. So I'm not sure they've thought through this. And there is some risk, if you consider the possibility that we might want to get any nuclear material that could be left over, because that was one of the rationales for this war and there is still material there. It was not obliterated. You can't do that from the air. You can't do that with naval assets. You actually, if you want to do that, you need to introduce someone on the ground to actually, actually secure that, or you need to actually think about a diplomatic pathway with whatever remains in Iran.
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A
And so what do the off ramps look like for the U.S. i think
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H
the first op ramp, and I hear this again from partners in the region, Arab countries, is that they're trying to talk with whomever exists in the regime right now today to figure out if there's some sort of cessation of hostilities. And remember, President Trump actually did this quite successfully in September, October of last year in getting to that ceasefire in Gaza, which was long overdue, and the hostage release. So part of this is actually having again, a clearly articulated end state. President Trump has said regime change at one point. Now he seems to walk back on it. You need to stick to something so that you can empower your team or to work with partners like Oman or the UAE or Saudis who talk to Iran every day to try to figure out if there's a way to de escalate it. The key point here, Ari, is there actually aren't any very good military solutions in the long run. And this is what the countries in the region say they don't like. Like Iran, they don't like this regime, but they have to live in the same neighborhood with them. So I think what they're looking for is something that is a sustainable result. Not this strikes without strategy and we're hitting things, but without a clearly defined end goal of what Iran or the region will look like.
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A
Yeah, Brian, Katulis, thank you very much. As folks can see, we are monitoring the Michigan synagogue attack briefing there. We will bring that to you live. Coming up, Dylan Ratigan, a veteran of this very network on Trump's economic problems and the energy crisis. That's next.
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A
We're awaiting authorities holding a press conference on that synagogue attack in Michigan that we've been reporting on. You can see some action in the room. These are live pictures, but the authorities have not come out yet. As I've mentioned, this is a fluid situation given the attack earlier today. When they come out to brief, we will bring that to you live here on msNow. I want to turn to the wider impacts of this Iran war and Donald Trump's energy crisis. The Iran attack has had many impacts, but some of the widest fallout that we're seeing is clearly in these energy markets. And for a discussion on this, I want to turn to a Veteran journalist and expert in that financial department. Dylan Ratigan was founding to CNBC's Fast Money show which specializes in the markets. He hosted a show on this network. He was a financial journalist at Bloomberg and he's now an Entrepreneur heading up reservations.com and euphoria. Sneakers can see you over the years there. Thanks for being here.
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G
My hair color has changed.
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A
Yeah, well, the more things change, it won't change again.
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G
Well, so the thing is, so fast money was the big thing back in the day when. And. And the centerpiece of it was the streets of Hormuz. I mean, I can remember, you know, I don't know, this is too long ago, decades ago. And there would be this entire sort of dramatic thing like as long as they don't close the streets of. The streets of Hormuz. And the reason there was never a
- [22:39]
A
war, as I had to warn everybody, we do have the start of this press conference. Let's listen to the authorities there in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan.
- [22:47]
I
This community works together hand in glove. This community takes care of each other. And we have been communicating regularly. I have been texting the chief, not just in West Bloomfield, but every place that's got significant houses of worship, Jewish facilities, synagogues, temples, you name it. Over the past two weeks. Obviously, what happens around the world sometimes affects us. So we have to think about it, be prepared for it. So we've been talking. I text actually the head of security from the temple two days ago and communicated some information to him. So the first thing the community should know is that we not just today work together. We work together all the time. Our state, our federal and local partners, number one. Number two, we train. In our world, preparation is important. We hope and pray it never happens. But that's not a strategy. Preparation is. So all of us have been training together for many years for active shooters or active assailants, mass casualty events. And tragically, we've had way more than our share. So that is ongoing and is in place. The third thing is important to note. No children and no staff were hurt. So we know there's evil in the world and we know they only have to get it right once. And sometimes they do. They may not come on anybody's radar and they show up, but what happens when they show up? That's where training and preparation kicks in. The security staff did an amazing job. An amazing job. And you'll get some of the details on that. But they stopped the threat. No kids, no staff were hurt. Now there were some injuries and things that had to be taken Care of one of the head of security was taken to the hospital. He got knocked down by the car when it breached the building. And we've had 30 law enforcement officers taken to the hospital for smoke inhalation. So a lot of our folks from my SWAT team and other agencies are still in treatment because that building became engulfed when the car for and we'll learn all of that through the investigation why it became engulfed in flames. What was the ignition source? And I think the ATF is taking that the or the origin of that source and origin of the fire. But in any event, what it did, it caused terrible, terrible smoke in that part of the building. And so when all of our people collectively went in that building to search out the threat to removed innocent, a lot of them took in significant amount of smoke inhalation and they're at the hospital being treated. So I also know you're going to have a lot of questions. A lot of those questions can't be answered at this point because it's super preliminary in the investigation. All of us have thoughts of maybe why this happened. But we don't operate in a world where we can presume something. We have to determine it through investigation and specificity. And that is a work that's in progress as we speak. All of us will work seamlessly together to get the answers and then it will be called what it is. Obviously it's a hateful terror, Terror, terrible thing.
- [25:57]
A
Right?
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I
But what drove this person into action, that has to be determined by the investigation. We can presume, but we have to find those facts. And that's going to happen over the next days in time. So we won't be able to get into a lot of the evidentiary questions, but we're available to make sure the community understands that, that we are still on a very heightened platform. And the most important thing that I would tell the community, don't be afraid to call us. If we're not your own local police department, call your local police department. We'd rather respond to 100 nothings and miss 1 real deal. The only way we prevent something like this is to get a call. Something's off with my son, my brother, my boyfriend, Whatever the case, I saw something posted. That's the only way we interdict because people are more likely to see or hear something before us. So if you see or hear something, you have to communicate that and then we can intervene and hopefully prevent. But if we can't prevent, then we respond and mitigate. That's what happened today. And I think based on the early information, it happened flawlessly. So with that, I'll kick it over to my friend Chief Young from West Bloomfield Police Department.
- [27:09]
A
Thank you, Sheriff. My name is Dale Young. I'm the police Chief of West Bloomfield. I want to share with you how we got to where we are today. So today we received a 911 call which came in around 12:19pm it was about an active shooter situation at Temple Israel where the individual drove into the building. West Bloomfield officers arrived on scene under five minutes. Temple security officers engaged the individual and neutralized the threat. Our officers combined with area agencies cleared the building multiple times and safely and successfully evacuated all children and staff. This is an active crime scene and we are examining every angle related to this situation. I will now turn this over to the FBI for further comment.
- [27:58]
D
Hello. My name is Jennifer Runyon, last name R U N Y A N. And I'm a special agent in charge of the FBI Detroit field office. This is a deeply disturbing and tragic incident and our deepest sympathies are with the victims, their family and the entire Jewish community. The FBI is here working with our state, local and federal partners to investigate this incident. And I can confirm that we are leading the investigation right now as a targeted act of violence against the Jewish community. As my partners have said, this is an active and ongoing investigation with an active crime scene. And I ask for your patience as we process this evidence. Evidence. And pursue every lead that has come to us and that we have developed thus far. What I can share is this. There was one subject involved in this incident who is now deceased. And as my partners have said, we've had no victim fatalities. I would not be able to provide additional information at this time on the subject or his motive, as our goal is to protect the integrity of this investigation and to ensure that we give you accurate and timely information as soon as we can. The FBI was notified of active reports, excuse me, of active shooter at Temple Israel. At approximately 12:45, we immediately activated and deployed all of our crisis response resources, which includes our SWAT team, our crisis negotiation team, our evidence response team, our special agent bomb techs, our weapons of mass destruction team, our cellular analysis survey team, and our victim services, as well as more than 100 agents and analysts to ensure that we are actively mitigating and responding to the active threat, but also pursuing diligently and methodically every lead that we have. My ask to the public is a few things. I know everyone wants information now, but I ask that you be patient as we are still processing this scene and still pursuing everything that we can and that has come to us today. Second, we've activated a digital media tip line for any witnesses who has photos or videos of the incident today. They can upload those@www.FBI.gov WestBloomfieldAttack all one word. But the public can also report through our call line at 1-800- call FBI if you have any information about this incident and or any other suspicious activity that you see around in your community, your life, your places of worship, your schools. As the sheriff said, we all need to remain vigilant, and it takes the whole community to ensure that we remain safe. I also understand that congregants may have left some personal effects at the synagogue. And as soon as we have a reunification site to get those effects to the affected victims, we will be sure and release that as soon as possible. I want to thank our partners and the first responders and the security personnel at Temple Israel who did an excellent job at mitigating this threat. And we are very grateful for their bravery and their service. Next, I'd like to bring up or offer up Steven Ingberg, the CEO of the Jewish Federation of Detroit.
- [31:11]
A
As the CEO of the Jewish Federation of Detroit, I'd love to say I'm shocked or I'm surprised, but I'm not. This is something that we train for. Thank you to all of the law enforcement officers who stand behind us and the many who don't. Thank you to our Jewish community security team. This is a tough time. It is a tough time, but we will get through this. We will get through this together. We will get through this stronger, and we'll continue to be loud and proud of being Jewish. This will not change us. This will not deter us, and we will continue with that.
- [31:43]
G
I'd like to turn over to Rabbi
- [31:44]
A
Arianna Gordon of Temple Israel.
- [31:49]
D
Thank you so much. As you've heard, there's so much that we don't know.
- [31:52]
J
We're going to be processing all of this in the days and weeks to come.
- [31:57]
D
But what I do want to say
- [31:58]
J
is a huge thank you to our law enforcement, to our Temple Israel security team and our Early Childhood center teachers who were the true rock stars of the day.
- [32:07]
D
They ensured that all of our children
- [32:09]
J
remained safe and calm throughout the entire day and got every single child safely reunited with their parents this afternoon.
- [32:17]
D
And for that, I can't express my gratitude enough. We are really appreciative to all of you for making sure that everyone made it home tonight. And thank you for being here.
- [32:32]
I
Okay, I think that's it obviously can't get into the evidentiary questions, as I said, but I think the message is clear that we all stand united, stand together. Whether it's federal, state, county or local, we're committed to keeping this community safe. If you think you can target the Jewish community in this county or anywhere in this state, you're wrong. We're going to not only stand in front of them to protect them, we're coming for you. So with that, thank you.
- [33:12]
A
We have been listening to law enforcement briefing in West Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. The authorities there giving a very clear and coordinated presentation. You had the federal and local sheriffs represented, as well as leaders of the Jewish community, both from the federation and that synagogue. Just some highlights. And I have Mark Claxton here, but for those who've been listening or just joined us, they reiterated that no children or staff were hurt. The sheriff saying that he thought the security forces at the synagogue did a, quote, amazing job. There were injuries from smoke inhalation. With regard to the why and what the sheriff called evidentiary questions. They said they're just not taking questions from the press at this time, that it's very preliminary and the FBI noted that they are investigating this as, quote, a targeted act of violence against the Jewish community. Mark Claxton, a retired NYPD detective, is back with us. Your view on what. What matters, what we heard there in
- [34:06]
E
the presentation that there seems to be a responsible approach to the investigation up until this point and understanding that things may change, you know, issues and items may come up, up that weren't considered or discussed before. But it's an investigation, so it has to be methodical. And the great thing about it is it's cooperative. You have state and local federal authorities working together to gather as much information as possible.
- [34:37]
A
How did you assess the references, which were careful, to the environment we're in? Sheriff Bouchard, the first sheriff who spoke, said, what happens around the world affects us, but didn't go further. The representatives of the Jewish community obviously aware of the wider issues of anti Semitism and perhaps around the world, but most speakers kept it pretty careful because the mode of investigation continues. What is your thought as a law enforcement expert on that?
- [35:05]
E
I think that's responsible and the appropriate course of action. You don't want to be premature with some pronouncements that maybe perhaps later on, during the course of an extensive investigation, you may have to walk back or take back, but perhaps the damage is already done and you don't want to presuppose anything. You don't want to assume anything, especially given the climate that we're currently in. So you want to really operate and move and respond and communicate based on the evidence, the facts that you uncover as you uncover those things. And people respect that because this way it's not about conjecture or guessing and we don't have to make assumptions and cause additional hostilities given the current climate and friction that is around the world.
- [35:54]
A
Mark Claxton, who walked us through some of this at the beginning and now after that presentation, I want to thank you.
- [36:01]
E
Thanks, Ari.
- [36:02]
A
Absolutely. Ms. Now will keep covering any of the fallout from what are two attacks today in that heightened environment. I want to tell you what's coming up when we return. We have our longtime friend and Ms. Colleague, veteran Dylan Ratigan here. Trump has oil problems. We're hearing a lot about those really dramatic images we saw of fire on those boats and the oil tankers. Dylan is here and we're going to get back into that next. Support for this podcast comes from Progressive
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A
Donald Trump is on defense over the economic and energy impacts of this Iran war. We've been seeing the images of these tankers on fire in the Strait of Hormuz. Really dramatic, dangerous imagery. This is what is happening over there. Trump has been largely denying it at times, lying about it. I want to bring back our financial expert, a CNBC veteran, Ms. Colleague, veteran Dylan Ratigan, on these economic impacts in Iran. We, of course, went out to take some important breaking news. But you were just starting to explain the fact that this isn't new and this isn't secret intelligence to understand the impact and the risk to the United States of Iran's ability to mess with that.
- [38:44]
G
Yeah, well, the Straits of Hormuz, everybody knows. I mean, it's been talked about ad nauseam. Like I said, we used to do entire hours about this particular little body of water decades ago, is a known choke point for the world's energy supplies. This couldn't be more widely known. I think what's most striking, many things are striking about the current political situation with this war, but the lack of planning, the fact that they didn't fill the Strategic Petroleum Reserve before they did this, which is something you could easily have done, and the fact that they didn't have a very explicit plan to control the Straits of Hormuz are just, I think, two of the more extreme examples. I mean, listen, listen, there's two completely separate issues here. One, the technology of war has advanced to the point where it can no longer be tolerated as something on the earth. It's a different meeting, different people. That's not my area of expertise, but it's quite obvious when you can rack up tens of thousands of $50,000 or $25,000 drones that are like flying VW buses that can explode through any window of any city in the world, world you can know, it might as well be. It's no longer useful. I mean, there's a great Bill Barr stand up where he's like, how is murdering people, especially women and children, random people in cities, considered a rational solution to conflict resolution between governments? But anyway, that's.
- [40:06]
A
Well, let me give you some credit. You're taking it deeper. You're saying we, particularly as a superpower, ought to be the leaders in the world of finding ways to resolve conflict. Conflict without resorting to the worst case,
- [40:18]
G
what I'm saying, which is killing technology has advanced to the point. So Napoleon is a great. The king, right? But Napoleon, if he had an issue, would get a bunch of people on horses and ride over for six months and be with you people in charge. You May not like it, but at least Napoleon is not sitting back with a remote control bombing women and children in a foreign city.
- [40:38]
A
Right, well, and Donald Trump was on. You know, he's denying it, but the accounts show one of the first actions was they bombed a school and killed a lot of school girls.
- [40:47]
G
Twice. They did one and then another one 40 minutes later.
- [40:50]
A
And.
- [40:50]
G
Yeah. So you're. So you want me to believe that we have the world's most lethal, most advanced, most technologically sophisticated military system in the history of the world that can pinpoint a large explosive device to any GPS signal anywhere in the world, but then you accidentally blew up a children. I mean, that's.
- [41:07]
H
Come on.
- [41:08]
A
Let me show you the energy secretary who says, quote, quote, they are trying to get control so Iran cannot threaten energy markets, which doesn't seem to be working. If that's one of the.
- [41:21]
G
Wait, wait, wait.
- [41:23]
A
You know I love you. Wait, let me play it and then get your response.
- [41:28]
H
This is an operation that'll take weeks, not months.
- [41:31]
A
Every day, enormous progress is made. We're destroying their ability to threaten the
- [41:37]
H
United States troops in the region, to
- [41:39]
A
threaten their neighbors, and ultimately to threaten energy markets is
- [41:44]
G
if they put mines, which they are reportedly doing, in the streets of. It's not about Iran. It's not about the Middle east. It's about 24 miles of the narrow point of water that controls not just 20% of the world's oil supply, but also controls the fertilizer that goes into the agriculture that the world consumes. It's on. And there's all these things. And so you can do whatever you want. If you don't have control of that body of water right there, you do not have control of the global energy market. That is the control point of the global energy market. And right now it's close.
- [42:13]
E
Opposed.
- [42:15]
A
There is a competence issue here that seems different than foreign policy or ideology. There are now reports credible from multiple sources that one of the things Trump said was, well, maybe we can make up for any problem with the oil from Venezuela, which is under 1% of the amount that goes through the street rate, which suggests, and I say this just as an observation, that he, in private conversations, as he's talking about this with the planners, does not know and hasn't read the briefing book or assigned the right energy expert. We have them all within our government to plan this in advance. How much is the competence worry you
- [42:58]
G
as someone who's followed the markets for decades? I mean, I can go that way, but I could also take you the exact Opposite direction.
- [43:02]
A
Well, that's one of your specialties, which why don't you go competence first and then the other one.
- [43:06]
G
So on the one hand for sure there's a clear lack of evidence of competence, but I would say that lack of evidence of competence mostly manifests in the failure to fill the strategic reserves with oil before this happened. Who is the biggest consumer of oil from Iran? China? Iran is China's oil dealer. What if it's hyper competence in a way that is indifferent to the suffering of the American people? What if it is a desire to shut down the Chinese oil supply at the same time jacking the American economy into a recession by raising the gas? It's going to be a disaster here.
- [43:44]
A
Who would be planning that though?
- [43:45]
G
I'm saying maybe Trump is like, listen, I'm willing to expense the American people in a recession in order to take down China by shutting off their oil supply.
- [43:53]
A
Well, to tease that out, I'm not sure that he wants to do that before the midterms.
- [43:57]
G
Again, I'm not, I'm. There's either just total incompetence and lack of planning or there's some bizarre backdoor China kneecapping strategy that is that only they understand.
- [44:10]
A
Let's turn.
- [44:11]
G
I'm not suggesting that that's what's happening, but those are the only two theoretical radical.
- [44:14]
A
Let's turn to the wider markets. Trump has been fixated on the Fed trying to juice the markets and the sort of the short term economic sugar. He's got two members of the Fed under investigation. Something that in all your time at cnbc, you never saw that you never saw a president put. And as someone who's followed the markets religiously, should America be concerned that the war and the energy problems can be a wider contagion, that we could have wider economic.
- [44:42]
G
Yeah, I mean the recession risk is very high, high just by virtue of the oil prices are up 50% in the last month, not 10%. A 50% adjustment in the base input for the entire not just transportation and power generation environment, but also agricultural environment. Everybody already knows what's going on with grocery prices, et cetera. So there's no question recession risk is now the highest it's been in years.
- [45:05]
A
And so based on your it's because of the war. Are you, based on your experience, able to look at this and say was this worth, worth the risk, this Iran attack?
- [45:14]
G
I mean, and for me it comes back to do I accept hordes of robotic flying bombs as a, as a conflict resolution Mechanism in the 21st century? And I do not. So any conflict that is resolved with hordes of flying VW buses that explode and kill women and children is not an acceptable conflict resolution concept for the modern world because the technology has advanced so far are that once you introduce the possibility that you can rain tens of thousands of these drones down on any city, anytime, anywhere, how is that an acceptable way of life for anybody? And so, no, it was not worth it just for that reason, just because of the people that in all these cities that had nothing to do with this, whether it's in Tehran, whether it's in Tel Aviv, whether it's in Dubai, none of the people that are actually receiving the inbound heat of these assaults are relevant to this conflict. Now, let's assume you're like, okay, well, listen, war is a dirty business. It's a dirty world. And we're just going to randomly murder women and children. It's just a cost of doing business and we're okay with that. Which I'm not saying that, but let's say you're there, then, okay, are you willing to risk a recession for the most powerful economy in the world and potentially a deep recession for it? And are you willing to further compromise the status of the currency and the moral standing of the country in terms of alienation to every other ally you have outside of Israel? And are you willing to incur that expense if the result of doing all of this is effectively no change on the fact that Iran is a threatening entity? And I think that's the obvious discussion that everybody's having right now.
- [46:55]
A
I think you're, you're speaking truth and we kind of get into the jargon and the, and the technocrats. Yeah. And then you're sort of saying we
- [47:03]
G
should be better doing.
- [47:04]
A
Yeah, you're saying we should be better than this final Dylan Ratigan note. I'm over on time, but I did want to mention for the fans of network and Howard Beal, it is the 50th. 50th. It's the 50th anniversary of I'm mad as hell.
- [47:18]
G
I'm not going to take about generating some emotion because, I mean, listen, if there's anything that generates emotion, it's this. But I wanted to respect the environment.
- [47:26]
A
Respect, respect. Thank you, Dylan Ratigan, as always. When we come back, Trump's MAGA base problem. On the same issue of Iran
- [47:37]
E
foreign.
- [47:42]
A
Tonight, we've seen many different aspects of the impact of Trump's Iran war on the home front. It remains completely unpopular. 53% of voters oppose the action in Iran that is high opposition at this early stage. Usually these kind of measures are initially more popular. Trump also faces the concern that he was motivated to attack Iran as a way to distract from the Epstein scandal. That's conjecture. Whether you think it's true or not is a personal view. But the fact that half the country is concerned about that kind of wag, the dog abuse of our military by the commander in chief is not exactly a vote of confidence. And then there's the voices on the right. Candace Owens, a very MAGA podcaster, says Trump has betrayed America in a video going viral. Joe Rogan hitting hard and he has over 20 million listeners. I mean, if oil prices spike, we're.
- [48:40]
E
Yeah.
- [48:41]
A
You know, and the Republicans, really. It's terrifying and it's exactly the opposite of what we were told leading into
- [48:49]
E
this administration, that it's going to be America first.
- [48:52]
G
Right.
- [48:52]
A
And no more unnecessary foreign wars. He's 80. He doesn't have much to lose.
- [48:58]
E
Right.
- [48:59]
I
Last term.
- [49:00]
A
That's the scary thing about old leaders.
- [49:02]
H
You're making decisions for babies and children
- [49:04]
A
and the future of the world and
- [49:06]
H
you've only got 10, maybe 10 years left on earth.
- [49:13]
A
Straight talk from Joe Rogan, who hosted Trump in the campaign year, who's often been friendly to some of his issues, basically, according to Rogan, describing the President as an elderly, out of touch warmonger who can't be trusted with our children's future. I guess Rogan gets the last word tonight. We've covered a lot of different ground. You can keep it locked on msnow for a lot of these stories. We got a lot going on tonight.
- [49:35]
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