← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Taylor Swift Returns After Dunking on Trump's 'Hate'
00:40:51
MSNBC’s Ari Melber reports on President Trump’s escalating power grabs and is joined by former SDNY prosecutor Maya Wiley and NYU's Ruth Ben Ghiat. Plus, Melber delivers an analysis of Taylor Swift's new album "The Life of a Showgirl."
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- [00:00]
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- [00:47]
Ari Melber
I'm Ari Melber and I am smiling because, well, I love seeing Nicole and seeing you. And we do have some good stuff by the end of the hour. So we will get to that, I promise. The top story is Trump trying to seize power with the Pentagon doing several strikes now, the fourth strike on a boat off the coast of Venezuela. This is, of course, at a time where we have other problems. The US Government is partially shut down. Of course foreign policy can continue. You have these rather dramatic scenes. They've killed four men who, according to the U.S. were accused of smuggling drugs. But that, again, is according to the Trump administration. This is not exactly some legal process. We don't have public evidence yet. Whatever the government releases will follow. US military has killed about 21 people, according to the evidence we have that it asserts were drug traffickers, and there's no due process for that. So we are in more of a war posture, like I said, than a domestic legal one. Now, the wider context is Trump using the word war in a host of settings. War on US Cities, war for training grounds, war on these cartels and trying to say they're unlawful combatants. Now, the wider context is the big problem here. If you've followed American foreign policy, it has aggrandized executive power, sometimes without Congress or legal proceedings under many different administrations. Sometimes the threat was considered urgent and high, like after 9 11, or dealing with individuals credibly believed to be foreign operational terrorists. Drug dealing or international cartels are also a big problem for the US and one you want to thwart. But legally under foreign policy, not necessarily at the level of post 911 terror. And again, that's just one piece. Then you have the crackdown at home where troops are being asked to do things that are unprecedented without governor's approval. Going to Tennessee and Memphis this week, Trump threatening Portland. There's reports that 200 Oregon troops are now going what they call initial military training. According to this ABC News account. Oregon already suing to try to stop what they view as potentially unconstitutional deployment, saying Trump doesn't have the authority. There's. And then there's ice, which again, has long operated under both administrations to do types of immigration enforcement. But under every other administration, including Republican ones, it has generally had a hierarchy and dealt with perceived potential or active criminals who are engaged in, say, the drug dealing, the violence, other things differently than just anyone who might be undocumented. Well, those days have shifted. ICE escalating tactics in Illinois, arresting protesters outside an ICE facility after a confrontation. Agents in tactical gear roaming the streets. Many critics view it as something other than traditional immigration enforcement.
- [03:37]
Maya Wiley
It is ICE's responsibility to respect and uphold our First Amendment rights. It is not on us to accommodate their illegal and immoral actions. This is violence that we are seeing in our community. We have constitutional rights. And in the city of Chicago, every single elected official is going to protect those constitutional rights.
- [04:03]
Ari Melber
ICE targeting criminals or people believed to be engaged in violence. We've seen that before. ICE targeting protesters and walking around in mass and camo and clearly going at people who are either likely citizens or clearly citizens. Haven't seen that. Presidents testing foreign policy powers, even without Congress sometimes using lethal powers. We've seen that before. Presidents doing that while waging a war, his word on the home front, a war on our cities, asking the entire military to come together and giving a speech that was so obviously partisan that the generals, many appointed by Trump, had to stay in stony silence to show the country and follow the rules that this was partisan and not normal government leadership. We haven't seen that, not in the modern era. I want to bring in sdny, civil prosecutor, veteran and human rights expert Maya Wiley, and NYU history professor Ruth Ben Ghiat, who has studied and written about authoritarian governments. Ruth, the facts are what they are, and past presidents have certainly pushed the bounds of lethal powers abroad. So this is not a story where every single part of it is wholly unusual to Donald Trump. I say that in accuracy and fairness, but combined with a lot of what else is happening this week, there does seem to be alarms. How do you view it on the evidence, regardless of what one thinks of Trump's politics?
- [05:30]
Ruth Ben Ghiat
Well, you know, we've been focusing a lot on the attacks, on the rule of law at home as part of an authoritarian advance. And we can't separate this from attempts to kind of destroy respect for international law. And what the administration is really doing is redefining what the battleground is, where the battleground is, who is an enemy, who is a combatant. And these are all of a piece. And I know this because in my book Strongman, I studied these juntas, these military dictatorships in Cold War. And the way that in Chile, Pinochet justified his crackdowns was saying it was now a time of war, and war was redefined to be a war on civilians. And so the military in Chile, which was very different than other militaries in Latin America, it was very democratic, very dedicated to the Constitution. It had to have this shift. And that's what Hegseth's speech at Quantico was about, from my estimation, was reorienting the military, saying, now we're untying your hands. And that meant implicitly to many people in international dealings as well. So this is an attack on international respect for international laws that are dictated by democratic international nationalism. That's why there's been all the attacks on NATO. The admiration for dictators is also an admiration for their lack of respect for democratic international norms.
- [07:17]
Ari Melber
And, Maya, this is coming as the White House is also facing anger and concern about the government shutting down and whether Trump has his eye on the ball of that, his job on the home front.
- [07:30]
Maya Wiley
Yeah, for sure. Let me just underscore one thing here, and it is the through point between what you teed up, Ari, about what these attacks against people, civilians who are being called, not necessarily with any demonstrated proof that we've seen, members of gangs, let alone whether this falls within the powers of the president, which I haven't found any authority for, and there is none cited for. Remember, it's Congress, under our Constitution, that declares war. So that's important to know. But the through point here is these are civilians. Whether we're talking about the people on the streets of our cities or whether we're talking about people on boats in international waters, there is no allegation here that they are actually part of armed forces and that the US Military would take action against. And the line being crossed in both of these instances, and to your point where Donald Trump is using language of war, whether it's related to US Civilians in our own country or in these. Or in these attacks in international waters really amounts the same thing. We're seeing him utilize the military in ways that have nothing to do with. With the norms or rules that bound the U.S. military. And the only reason to do that, to Ruth's point, is to abuse power for personal gain. And to your point, because he's in a situation right now where the economy's not going well for a lot of Americans, where we're seeing Americans taking hits on their health care because of Republican and his administration's policies, where we're seeing chaos. It's a word that I think we've heard others use, but it is very well felt inside the Capitol in terms of the operations of federal government. And it is impacting ordinary people. And then you have things like the Jeffrey Epstein files, which the majority of Americans want to see. There's a lot to have to distract. And it's not uncommon to abuse power, to drive division, to give someone a different focus and a different enemy. And far too often, that's us Civilians, we the people.
- [09:51]
Ari Melber
Right. And. And you talk about those walls closing and the government shut down. Epstein, other issues, Trump officials blowing the whistle on their own administration. Somewhat unusual. We have more on that actually. Coming up on the autocratic issues. Ruth, I wanted to show you this headline, treasury considering a $1 Trump coin, which they say would somehow commemorate the 250th anniversary of the U.S. of course, you got about 240 years of history you could draw on. You can see the prototype here, according to Politico. I'm going to leave this on the screen because you have on the one side the kind of profile picture we associate with dead presidents, deceased presidents, usually long after their political rule. If they are seen at that level to make a coin, make the coin cut, if you will. And then on the other side, you have, of course, something that was a terrible moment for the country, the attempted assassination. But lionizing that with Trump's fist in the air and a coin treatment. Where does this fit in with how the US Usually does this and how more autocratic regimes do it? Because it looks quite unusual.
- [10:58]
Ruth Ben Ghiat
Well, it is unusual in democracies because this is part of President Trump's personality cult. And he has been building this for 10 years now. And really, books will be written about how skillful he was at keeping his personality cult going even when he was out of power for four years. And so now he is very open about being an autocratic, a strongman. So that's why we also have giant pictures of his face on government buildings. You know, looks like North Korea or classic dictatorships. And so why not have a coin that immortalizes him as well? And it's his, you know, the posture of the fighter, the rogue. And so, you know, this is of a piece what we're discussing, that this is somebody who's. Whose way he operates is to be a fighter and to declare war and to think of everything as either he wins or else. And so the coin is about that coming back with the fist raised and now declaring war on America. And that includes American civilians.
- [12:14]
Ari Melber
Yeah. And it ties together with again a newsweek where there's all these other problems and the government is shut down. And you can see the pretext for using various events as emergencies. Professor, thank you, Maya. Stay with me. We are going to turn very shortly to why the White House is enraged about a Trump cabinet official blowing the lid, alleging we'll get into the evidence, but alleging a cover up for Epstein by Republican officials. How the shutdown is showing more facts about the Project 2025 agenda, which remember, so many officials seem to deny, maybe they knew was unpopular when running for office. Now we have the receipts and by the end of the hour, Taylor Swift, the new album drops last night, midnight. We have the news on that. We'll be back in 90 seconds.
- [13:06]
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- [14:06]
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- [14:41]
Ari Melber
A huge whistleblower. A claim that Republican officials have helped cover up for Epstein coming from a current Trump Cabinet member. That's the news that screamed across Washington this week when Cabinet Secretary Howard Lutnick made these amazing, astounding guilty comments about Epstein. The Commerce secretary has completely shredded and rebutted what the DOJ's official story was. Remember, they said no evidence about Epstein committing other crimes, blackmailing other people, or blackmailing the government itself, which has been a question. What we're showing you is what a current Cabinet official says. Doesn't mean it's true. There have been a lot of warring claims about Epstein. But Lutnick says he had his own firsthand knowledge of Epstein.
- [15:28]
Odoo Advertiser
I say to him, massage table in the middle of your house.
- [15:33]
Ari Melber
How often you have a massage?
- [15:36]
Odoo Advertiser
And he says, every day.
- [15:38]
Ari Melber
And then he like gets like weirdly close to me.
- [15:41]
Maya Wiley
Oh.
- [15:41]
Ari Melber
And he says, and the right kind of massage. And what happened in that massage room, I assume was on video.
- [15:48]
Odoo Advertiser
This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever, blackmailed people.
- [15:53]
Ari Melber
That's how he had money.
- [15:54]
Odoo Advertiser
I assume way back when they traded.
- [15:58]
Ari Melber
Those videos in exchange for him getting that 18 month sentence. Lutnick there sounding downright sinister. He is describing what he says he learned from his firsthand observation of Epstein, those interactions as well as his inferences. That's not hard evidence, but it is a major problem for a Trump administration which is hiding documents and says there were no other crimes. Lutnick talking about another crime of blackmail. Maya Wiley is back with me. How do you view these statements? And now Democrats call for Lutnick to testify, given the great import of what he's alleging.
- [16:36]
Maya Wiley
Well, first let's remember Secretary Lutnick, a Trump appointee, not somebody who is in a camp of opposition for Donald Trump. And obviously he wasn't talking about Donald Trump in that clip about Jeffrey Epstein. But here's the point. You have someone of his stature saying very explicitly, this guy is all that nasty stuff we're hearing about. And this guy, from his standpoint as a businessman, remember, his background is as a Wall street businessman, not a politician, is just saying what every other person who has paid any attention to the facts of this case is saying, which is, ew, this guy is creepy. All of the allegations. And remember, he's also going way back to 2005 before the U.S. attorney in Miami, who becomes another indifferent Trump secretary, Cabinet and Trump member in Trump one basically gives Jeffrey Epstein a sweetheart deal despite all of the evidence that suggest this guy is beyond creepy. He's actually literally taking advantage of young girls in all the most egregious ways that we know. But I just want to underscore this one point. You're always good about doing this, Ari, as well. I mean, Lutnick is making very clear in that interview that he doesn't have facts of bribery. He's making an assumption. Now, the reason that's important is because we shouldn't listen to this as facts in evidence that there is blackmail. Right. And that's important to note. But having said that, drawing the natural inference of all these powerful men and the ability of Jeffrey Epstein to somehow escape accountability for so many people and that he was.
- [18:34]
Ari Melber
I'm going to jump in to say, and that he was around it. We have other legal news I definitely want to get you on. So that's the Sean Diddy Combs sentencing finally came late today. The disgraced mogul getting over four years in prison, convicted on those two counts of transport for the purposes of prostitution. There were much more serious charges that carried longer prison time. He was cleared on those sex trafficking and RICO charges. Maya, your reaction to this sentence based on the charges that he was convicted of?
- [19:04]
Maya Wiley
Two reactions. He's going to do real time, and that is going to matter for a lot of people. The second, though, is that there are a lot of victims, including those who testified, including Cassie Ventura, who made very clear that they were afraid of what was going to happen to them as a result of the fact that they came out and testified against him. And that is something that I sit with. When we remember the videotape that we all saw publicly and all of the number of allegations about just how violent, just how prevalent what he was convicted of is, and also just how much the prosecution has some accounting to do for given the facts that we've heard and the way they postured the case.
- [19:55]
Ari Melber
Yeah, understood. And a big development there. And finally learning what his justice and sentence would be. My Wiley, thank you. By the end of the hour, we have the update on Taylor Swift returning with the new album Government Watchdogs Fighting Back and the Stephen Miller receipts. Next.
- [20:17]
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- [21:16]
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- [21:51]
Ari Melber
This marks the end of the first week of the government shutdown. President Trump has been talking about cuts, but that could be backfiring. The Project 2025 blueprint, which he famously ran away from during the campaign because it was unpopular people didn't want a lot of what's in it is now being implemented across parts of the government. So Trump now freezing $2 billion for infrastructure a long ways from when he used to hold multiple infrastructure weeks, targeting billions in energy funding and trying to do this by explicitly going after states that didn't vote for him, which looks punitive now. Remember, the project's architect, Russell Vogt, works in a key budget position in the Trump administration and there's renewed scrutiny because of all the dubious claims during the campaign that this big Trump related thing wasn't going to be their governing blueprint. Some on Fox clocking this 180 Remember.
- [22:45]
Odoo Advertiser
What Donald Trump said a year ago. I know nothing about Project 2025.
- [22:49]
Ari Melber
I have no idea who's behind it.
- [22:50]
Odoo Advertiser
I disagree with some of the things they're saying and some of the things they're saying absolutely ridiculous and abysmal. So I'm wondering, Francesca, did he just learn about Project 2025 in the last year or did he know about it all along?
- [23:04]
Ari Melber
Did he know about it all along? A gentle way of suggesting that they were being misleading. This matters because when you hear talk about whether they have a mandate from what they ran on, you got to remember what they ran on. We interview everybody here that's willing to take an adversarial, journalistic interview. And it's something we pressed on when we had these interviews. The campaign why do so many parts of the Republican platform overlap with 25? And we can put examples on the screen for you, including, as I think you know, abortion. It's very simple. President Trump has said he has nothing to do with Project 2025. Project 2025 has absolutely nothing to do with the past, present or future. President Trump. And President Trump alone will make his own policies categorical denials. Apparently they knew then it would get in the way of winning. And now when you hear people say, oh, this is the mandate, well, it certainly wasn't for the Project 2025 issues that they're now trying to implement. Coming up, everything you need to know about the new Taylor Swift album, which will be discussed all weekend. And the new fallout from the failed Musk cuts. What if the cuts cost money? That's the question rocking the Trump White House after Elon Musk and those so called programs to cut waste, fraud and abuse are failing when you actually total it all up. Governing is hard. There was a lot of talk about how this would save money, but it doesn't save money or help the public. When you oust and fire hundreds of essential federal workers that were so important, even the Trump administration has realized they must rehire them. A quote, giant waste of money, as one account puts it. We also have receipts. A new Senate report from the summer shows this whole thing and the unwieldy, ignorant way it was waged cost over $20 billion. So keep that in mind and whether they really care about any of this or it's a pretext for weakening the government and oversight because a lot of the folks who patrol corruption and fraud in the government also are a check on executive power, something Trump doesn't like. The Post reporting the Trump plans now include ending funding for an oversight group which helps those watchdogs, inspectors generals do. There it is, quote, waste, fraud and abuse patrol. Those watchdogs saw many of their ranks thinned or ousted earlier this year. Some speaking out IGs oversee how the priorities of the administration is being conducted to make sure that there is transparency in government. These people want to run through walls.
- [25:42]
Mark Ronson
For the American taxpayer.
- [25:43]
Michael Mesal
We are nonpartisan and independent. That's in the IG statute.
- [25:48]
Mark Ronson
They wake up every Day trying to sniff out waste, fraud and abuse.
- [25:51]
Michael Mesal
They don't want to independent inspector generals and they don't value the great benefit we provide.
- [26:00]
Ari Melber
The last voice, Veteran Affairs IG veteran Michael Mesal. He served under the first Trump term and for Obama and Biden administrations, but he was purged at the beginning of this year and returns now. Welcome back.
- [26:12]
Michael Mesal
Thank you so much for having me.
- [26:15]
Ari Melber
You do this work and you've done it in the trenches, out of the spotlight on a nonpartisan basis. Here we are now into the fall with what we've learned this year. How do you rate the credibility of the talk of saving money or fighting fraud and the actual way they're approaching the igs who do that work?
- [26:33]
Michael Mesal
I find it extremely troubling. Igs, as you pointed out, have been a great service to this country for almost 50 years. They fought fraud, waste and abuse and have had tremendous benefits. On an annual basis, IGs save taxpayers about $100 billion a plus. They help improve the performance of the government. We should have a government that's constantly trying to do the best possible job for the American people. And that's what IGs have done, assisted the administration in reaching its goals and also helped Congress be a watchdog for the administration, which is one of their roles for Congress to be watching what the administration is doing.
- [27:21]
Ari Melber
And so the credibility here is weak on the Trump part. What does it indicate? That the Musk effort, while loud, didn't actually save money. That this is sort of harder than it looks?
- [27:33]
Michael Mesal
It's extremely hard to do. The work that inspectors generals have done is truly extraordinary. And anytime you do an investigation and inspection and audit, it takes time to develop the facts and evidence. What inspectors generals do is they publish their work based on the evidence and facts that they develop. They do it in a nonpartisan manner, and they're fair. And what Doge did is simply just started to essentially wipe out big chunks of the government without really giving it much thought or understanding of what the consequences would be?
- [28:14]
Ari Melber
Yeah. What's left for these IGs who are in these roles? The DOJ's got a lot of problems right now. A lot of questions about, for example, the Comey indictment and other potential revenge prosecutions. But that IG, Mr. Horowitz, has proven pretty quiet. What should they do? Should they do their work at the risk of being fired? Should they just run in cover?
- [28:34]
Michael Mesal
No, they should do their work. That's what you sign up for. When you're an inspector general, you're not there to make friends. You're there to help improve the performance of the government. And the fire hearings of the IGs in January, the defunding of the Council of Inspector Generals just this past week really sends a chill across the community. And it's sending a message that if you don't do things the way we want you to do it, that your job is really at risk here. And so I consider this a very troubling time for our government. If you take away the oversight, you're taking away accountability and you're taking away really the transparency that inspectors general and other watchdogs out there, the General Accountability Office and others have provided over the years.
- [29:25]
Ari Melber
Yeah, it's really important. As I mentioned, you've done it nonpartisan and a lot is flying around. So people listen to what Musk said. They think, oh, maybe he was half right or he got a third of it done. The receipts we have, the data we showed, listening to you, total failure because it wasn't actually done in an effective manner. He may be very effective at other things, but he came in and out and cost the US Money. So we want to stay on that with the facts and follow this story where it goes. Mr. Missile, thank you very much. We're going to finish a break. When we come back, why the Taylor Swift phenomenon is exploding. What you need to know. And by the end of the hour, the road to marriage equality. The Supreme Court got a lot more for you this Friday. So stay with us.
- [30:12]
Michael Mesal
I don't think you know about this.
- [30:14]
Maya Wiley
But this was just posted online by.
- [30:17]
Michael Mesal
A woman you might have heard of.
- [30:18]
Maya Wiley
Whose name is Taylor Swift.
- [30:19]
Michael Mesal
She says, quote, I will be casting my vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Walls.
- [30:24]
Ari Melber
I am incredibly grateful, first of all, to Taylor Swift. I say that also as a cat owner, a fellow cat owner. There it is, a big moment when Taylor Swift endorsed in last year's campaign driving real voter engagement, also drawing some sad, plaintive and then angry responses from Donald Trump. Taylor is back today dropping her anticipated 12th studio album, the Life of a Showgirl, teeing off her successful ERAS tour. It exposed the experiences, expectations and humanity of someone on the stage as the world's showgirl. She relates to fans. She spars with her haters on the new album. In one new lyric, she reflects on an obsessed OPS attack, saying, it sounded nasty, but it feels like you're flirting with me. Kind of a confident yet dismissive attitude as she savors a journey that has now led her in her real life to love with a new fiance and success with this massive global audience that has her at the top of her power. As these reports know. A new album also we can report tonight is the most streamed in a single day on Spotify this year, besting the past nine months of also many great new projects. And in this album, Taylor even nods to some themes in our polarized era. The new song canceled doesn't get into specifics of Trump's FCC or political cancel culture debates, but it lands alongside them rebuking any knee jerk online mobs. Taylor says it's easy to love you when you're popular. The optics click, everyone prospers at one single drop you're off the roster. Tone deaf and hot lets effing off her. Taylor flipping that hatred into fuel on the chorus, noting good thing I like my friends canceled cloaked in Gucci and in scandal. At least you know exactly who your friends are. They're the ones with matching scars now. It's a sentiment many can relate to, from politics to just how we live today. You can check out the album wherever music is streamed. Coming up next, we're going to trace the line to human rights victories at the Supreme Court. Important story with a special guest when we come back. This year marks a decade since the Supreme Court ruled for marriage equality. Reagan appointing Justice Kennedy authoring a ruling vindicating the rights of people regardless of who they love to marry. A human rights breakthrough that did not just come out of nowhere, but grew out of decades of instances where people were building culture and community to come out in public, broaden public understanding of how there are different and valid ways that people live and love. Some of that coming out of a political bent like you see here, other parts coming out of social conditions where people mostly wanted to have fun and be themselves. Indeed, just as the 60s shook up the staid 50s, well after the straight laced Reagan 80s, many cities saw a resurgence of creativity, sexuality, club culture which broadened our mainstream and helped later even rewrite, was an artistic and musical scene led by DJs from Clue to Funk Flex to DJ Mark Ronson, a staple of the, I should say late nightclub scene, where the cred and musical chops he developed there led to the now famous collaborations with Amy Winehouse, Bruno Mars, earning him awards from Grammys to Oscars. And he now focuses on where it started in a new memoir, Night People how to be a DJ in 90s New York City. Making his debut on Mavericks is Mark Ronson. Thanks for being here.
- [34:21]
Mark Ronson
Thank you for having me.
- [34:22]
Ari Melber
What a fun book.
- [34:24]
Mark Ronson
Thank you. Yeah, you know, it was like a confluence of reasons why I Wanted to write this book. I felt like amazing DJs have written books for sure. I haven't read many of them, but I'm sure. But I thought that there's this. The idea of the gigging DJ, the not like the superstar DJ, not like when you're on a festival playing for 10,000 people, but what it's like to be night in, night out, in a club, in bars, in New York City at night. Especially in the 90s, where it was just like, amazing time to be around. And that was it. And then if one more Gen Z kid came up to me and was like, you were in New York in the 90s, what was that like? You know, I started to think like, wow, it was an amazing time that we were all a part of New York, was the center of the musical universe in some way. You had Biggie, Jay Z, Wu Tang, Lil Kim, Q Tip, and then you had Missy and Timbaland and the Neptunes, Pharrell, people that were all coming to New York to make their records and they were all in the club every night. So as the dj, I had this front row seat to it. And. Yeah, and I. I wrote a book.
- [35:33]
Ari Melber
It's hard to capture the vibe, of course, but just to get us going, we have some scenes from the 90s club scene that we're talking about. Let's take a look.
- [35:42]
Odoo Advertiser
Is this a lifestyle or just a moment in time?
- [35:45]
Mark Ronson
It's a lifestyle and a moment in time.
- [35:48]
Ari Melber
Back when the M and MTV stood exclusively for music.
- [35:51]
Michael Mesal
The sex and drugs and rock and roll live on such a new sound.
- [35:54]
Ari Melber
That I was like, oh, my God, this is it.
- [35:57]
Mark Ronson
With rap and house music stirred into.
- [35:58]
Ari Melber
The mix, the good times appear to.
- [35:59]
Michael Mesal
Be better than ever.
- [36:00]
Ari Melber
We got a wild place.
- [36:01]
Odoo Advertiser
Yeah.
- [36:08]
Mark Ronson
A lot of trendy people come here and, you know, just have a good time.
- [36:13]
Ari Melber
People were out the room, getting into the room and being in the room.
- [36:17]
Mark Ronson
Yeah.
- [36:17]
Ari Melber
Is that how you remember it? And how does that. How does that differ from today?
- [36:21]
Mark Ronson
It's amazing to see a video like that because that is my earliest experience of going to clubs. Because coming up, I was probably 15 years old, 15, 16 and 92, and there started to be these raves in New York. And I mean, I write about it because each chapter of the book is a different kind of club club night. It was this sort of not no man's land, but this. This slightly more free time in New York City. Right. Whether it was for better or for worse, I don't know. But I remember going to these rays where stuff Looked like that. And they were playing techno on the main dance floor. And I just wasn't into the, the energy of techno. It was just too intense. So I went to this little room that they, they called the chill out room. And in there I saw this DJ play this incredible hip hop set for the first time. You know, up to then. I listened to Stretcher, Armstrong and Font, max reflects and DJs on the radio. But to see a kid my age like doing this thing and tearing apart like doubles of this record and I was just. And I was also flying off my face on acid probably. But I was just so transfixed and I became obsessed. And then for six months I just started to collect records. And for graduation I got turntables.
- [37:31]
Ari Melber
Let's take a look at Hypnotized. This was back when radio and DJs would help break songs. Yeah, Biggie was Biggie. So it wasn't that he needed it, but it shaped it. And you write, there was something about this 300 pound man from bed Stuy, how he made every New Yorker feel proud, even a rich kid from the Upper west side like me. And then he showed up my place of work to hear me spin often. I doubt he knew my name, but it didn't matter. It was the ultimate validation from a king. Yes, at that time, before his tragic assassination and before the industry changed so much. He did feel that iconic to you and your peers then?
- [38:26]
Mark Ronson
Yes, absolutely. I mean he came to this party that I did on Tuesday night called Sweet Thing. And the first time he came like it was like a visit from the Pope, you know, like the DJ booth sort of face the other direction. So I didn't face the door, but it was the kind of thing like the whispers in the hut. Like I could feel the energy of like when Biggie had come in the club. When Biggie, it was before he passed, but it was one of the guys from his record company, Bad Boy came and brought me an acetate of any acetates were the first test pressing of a new record, you know, and they were really fragile, they were like glass. You could only play them 10 times before they wore down. So he comes to the club and he goes, I got the new Biggie joint, I gotta take it to flex. I can't leave it with you. But you can play it in the next 20 minutes. Of course it's a new Biggie joint. I've never heard it, but of course it's going to be amazing. So I cue it up in the headphones just enough throw It. And it's hypnotized, and it just drops. Boom. Oh. And there's 500 people in the club experiencing this song for the very first time. And it's just such a seismic thing to, like, knowing that you're sort of almost experiencing, like, history in real time. I mean, nobody's probably thinking about those times. They're just, like, on the dance floor having a good time. Time, but.
- [39:41]
Ari Melber
And what was the reaction on the dance floor?
- [39:42]
Mark Ronson
It was crazy. I mean, it was like. It was just. It was. There's certain records in the way that you play them and the way they dropped, the way the crowd. Like, I still remember. You know, I remember there was a week that DJ Enough was the only DJ I knew that had Nas Made youe Look. And before the Internet and all this stuff, I went to all his gigs just to hear that song. I would go follow Stretch just to hear certain songs because, you know, I hate to be that old, grumpy guy going like, it was better back then. It was more special.
- [40:13]
Ari Melber
That's.
- [40:14]
Mark Ronson
That's not the point. But there were kind of amazing things about the fact of how hard you had to work and hunt and. And, you know, dig for the things that you love.
- [40:25]
Ari Melber
I want to go to our lightning round. Okay, 90s or now 90s DJing with records or computer records. DJing or music producing.
- [40:36]
Mark Ronson
Oh, music producing.
- [40:39]
Ari Melber
The hardest part of DJing is.
- [40:44]
Mark Ronson
My back and my ears, what it's done to them.
- [40:48]
Ari Melber
The music genre that gets a crowd.
- [40:49]
Mark Ronson
Going immediately is 90s hip hop.
- [40:53]
Ari Melber
The best sample for moving a crowd.
- [40:56]
Mark Ronson
Best sample, like your original song, maybe Frankie Beverly and Maze. Before I let go.
- [41:02]
Ari Melber
What is your most enduring 90s trait? Is it the clothing, hairstyle, or the music?
- [41:08]
Mark Ronson
Definitely the music.
- [41:10]
Ari Melber
You can tell a DJ is great.
- [41:12]
Mark Ronson
When the crowd is bouncing off the walls.
- [41:17]
Ari Melber
The reason you should never request a song from a DJ is because we hate it. The only exception is if it's your birthday. Failure means.
- [41:30]
Mark Ronson
That's so tough. I can't do that on Lightning Round. That's crazy. Failure means. I guess for me, it would be making music that was, like, inauthentic. Chasing a hit, doing this thing, and then it's still a bomb.
- [41:46]
Ari Melber
Success means.
- [41:47]
Mark Ronson
Success means, I don't know, making art. A song that everybody that just loves. It brings joy to people.
- [41:55]
Ari Melber
Being a maverick means being on the show. Mark Ronson Night People. How to be a DJ in 90s New York City. So many fun thoughts here. I want to mention. You can see that entire Mark Ronson interview. Msnbc.com Ari go to msnbc.com Ari or put Ronson Melbourne to YouTube. There was even more we didn't have time to air tonight. Overall, with Mavericks, we get a lot of uplift. Lessons about life, society, politics, how to change things. Take a look. I'll tell you everything. I'm an open faced sandwich.
- [42:36]
Maya Wiley
It's important to be an artist and.
- [42:38]
Ruth Ben Ghiat
To to speak truth.
- [42:40]
Mark Ronson
Unless you're true to who you are, it's not going to resonate. Music really is you kind of defining who you are.
- [42:47]
Ari Melber
The Blue Note Jazz Festival and you just came off headlining.
- [42:51]
Mark Ronson
You have to remind yourself of the kid on the bedroom floor with the Beatles record.
- [42:54]
Michael Mesal
This is fire.
- [42:56]
Ari Melber
This man, let me explain, is in Anchorman 2. Drake's got some chops all of a sudden. My queerness is my superpower. Do you see yourself as a motivational speaker?
- [43:07]
Odoo Advertiser
No, I just speak and I'm motivational.
- [43:12]
Ari Melber
When it comes to making beats. You already know this.
- [43:14]
Mark Ronson
It's about the four count. 1, 1, 2, 3, 4. Reinvention is the key to survival in this business.
- [43:21]
Ari Melber
Favorite lyric I wrote I like, if I could give you the moon, I would give you the moon. I knew I'd made it when. When my accountant said I had a million dollars. Success means if your problems are different than they used to be, you obviously.
- [43:37]
Maya Wiley
Have to find people who would believe in you, who are crazy enough, who.
- [43:41]
Mark Ronson
For the lo GIC on msnbc, this is how we do it.
- [43:45]
Ari Melber
Gotta kick it with the free. Gotta kick it with the free. So we now welcome Mark Ronson to this crew. You can go to msnbc.com mavericks or if you always remember my first name, slash Ari and go to YouTube and find some of these. And I'll tell you when you look back at all these tonight as we end the week, you'll notice something they had in common. People willing to speak up, to be different against the odds. And sometimes what could have been the risk. You think about what we just went through with a government trying to censor comedians, comics like Jimmy Kimmel for telling jokes. Culture clearly still has power. Power enough that the powerful want to silence it. So tonight we celebrate the people who are speaking out, including some of those we just heard and Mr. Ronson as our thought to end the week with freedom over censorship. Thanks for watching the Beat. Have a great weekend.
- [44:38]
Odoo Advertiser
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