Top Trump Official Admits to Visiting Epstein Island

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Beat with Ari Melber

Episode: Top Trump Official Admits to Visiting Epstein Island

Date: February 11, 2026
Host: Ari Melber | Guests: Andrew Weissman, Margaret Carlson, Rob D’Amico

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into major political scandals shaking the Trump administration, with special attention on Trump’s Commerce Secretary confessing to visiting Jeffrey Epstein’s private island after years of denial. The show unpacks the significance of this admission, ongoing questions about government transparency, the fallout for Trump and his inner circle, and broader issues tied to law enforcement, immigration, and justice. The episode then transitions to congressional hearings on immigration policy, coverage of the Guthrie kidnapping case, and closes with lighter media critiques, including Jon Stewart's commentary on the Bad Bunny Super Bowl halftime show.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Epstein Scandal Erupts Again in Trump’s White House

[02:07 – 12:19]

• Ari Melber opens by highlighting the shockwave caused by new evidence linking Commerce Secretary Lutnick to Epstein’s island and how this undercuts years of denial (03:00).
• Melber traces the timeline: Lutnick previously claimed he cut all contact with Epstein in 2005, but newly released emails confirm an island visit in 2012.
• Public pressure and a mountain of files force Lutnick to admit, under oath, to visiting the island, contradicting earlier public statements.
• Senator Van Hollen confronts Lutnick in a hearing:

  “You realize that... this visit took place after [Epstein] had been convicted, right?” (06:30)

  • The question focuses on Lutnick's misleading nature, not formally accusing him of crimes.
• Lutnick’s bizarre anecdote about Epstein (“He says, and the right kind of massage… My wife is standing here... I will never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again.” – [08:29]) is dissected as a means of spin and self-exoneration, ultimately undermined by the facts.
• Detailed examination of email exchanges between Lutnick and Epstein’s team — demonstrating corroborative evidence of the 2012 island meeting ([07:30]).

Notable Quotes

• Ari Melber: “It’s a big problem to have these kind of people exercising power when they feel… the need to lie about their history with Epstein.” ([04:36])
• Senator Van Hollen: “Did you, in fact, make the visit to Jeffrey Epstein's private island?” ([06:25])
• Lutnick: “I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation...” ([06:30])
• Ari Melber (commenting): “The problem is he was lying. And nothing about the meeting or today’s confession suggests that he got confused and forgot. But rather, this was a kind of brash big lie...” ([09:00])

Context on Trump & DOJ

• Trump stands by Lutnick despite the mounting evidence. Files indicate Trump knew about Epstein’s criminal allegations in Florida, even as he sought to distance himself publicly ([11:20]).
• Melber plays a Trump clip from 2019 denying awareness of Epstein’s activities ([12:19]).
• New York Times and Miami Herald reports highlight how deep these denials have gone and the shifting stories under legal scrutiny.

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2. DOJ Accountability and Congressional Investigations

[14:25 – 24:04]

• Republican Senator from Wyoming admits to only recently understanding the gravity of the Epstein files:

  “Initially my reaction to all this was I don’t care… But now I see what the big deal is.” ([14:54])

• Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) and Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY) force DOJ to disclose names of six powerful individuals previously redacted from Epstein files ([15:25]).
• Legal expert Andrew Weissman: Stresses the public’s right to truth, especially from a Cabinet Secretary:

  “It’s the public entitled to the truth from somebody who is not just in the government, who works for us, but is at that high level in government.” ([18:55])

• Weissman highlights systemic failings at DOJ, notes that both Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for the insufficient investigations.
• Discussion of possible blackmail evidence—whitewashing and downplaying by Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche—despite substantial file evidence ([21:04]).
• Explains how Congress could grant immunity to Ghislaine Maxwell to force testimony:

  “If Congress really wanted to know the answers... they have the tools.” ([23:49])

• Calls for more congressional pressure and probing; roadmap described for how Congress could get real answers from Maxwell and fully examine DOJ, FBI actions ([25:10]).

Notable Quotes

• Andrew Weissman: “Frankly, the higher up you are, the more responsible you are to be candid with the public.” ([18:55])
• Andrew Weissman: “We have yet another avenue to do justice for the victims.” ([27:08])

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3. Congressional Hearings on Trump-Era Immigration Policy

[28:07 – 36:10]

• Coverage of first congressional hearing since recent killings in Minneapolis by ICE under Trump policies ([28:07]).
• Officials, including acting ICE director Todd Lyons, make dubious claims under oath, e.g., “You won’t see ICE agents rolling through parking lots… snatching someone up. An American citizen shouldn’t feel the need to carry [ID].” – quickly contradicted by real-world videos ([28:59]).
• Melber details the conditions inside ICE detention:
  • Irish man detained for months despite being married to a U.S. citizen.
  • Letters from children in Texas ICE facilities—e.g., Maria, a 9-year-old from Colombia:

    “I’ve been 113 days in detention. I miss my friends. I feel they’re going to forget me… I cried every night.” ([31:17])

• Margaret Carlson reflects on the human cost:

  “They know like the little children are being used to get at the parents and then the children get swept up… Imagine your child being just taken off…” ([32:26])

  • Argues congressional hearings offer little new, but public and political pressure may be mounting against harsh policies.
• NPR poll: 65% (including many pro-Trump voters) believe ICE has gone too far ([34:34]).
• Ongoing scrutiny of Trump appointees, e.g., Tom Homan and allegations about cash found in a kava bag; calls for further investigation ([35:33]).

Notable Quotes

• Margaret Carlson: “Even if they have no feelings left, they do read the polls.” ([33:24])
• Ari Melber: “This is so far outside the mainstream… not a path to citizenship debate.” ([34:34])

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4. Update: Guthrie Family Kidnapping Case

[36:10 – 41:55]

• FBI releases video evidence in the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie (Savannah Guthrie’s mother). Coverage includes details of the masked suspect and law enforcement’s appeal for public tips ([36:10]).
• MSNL analyst Rob D’Amico, leveraging hostage negotiation and law enforcement experience, analyzes the suspect’s behavior and preparedness:

  “I thought that they weren’t as professional as I thought… He didn’t come up with a very purposeful thing to cover up the camera.” ([38:50])

• Analysis suggests the individual might be an amateur, but had a plan—probably targeting a vulnerable victim ([40:22]).
• Law enforcement efforts to cross-reference CCTV, public tip campaigns continue.

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5. Lighter Segment: Bad Bunny, Jon Stewart & MAGA Criticism

[42:49 – 43:53]

• Discussion of Bad Bunny’s Super Bowl halftime show—framed as a unifying moment for America ([42:49]).
• Jon Stewart’s comedic take on MAGA figures complaining about the performance:

  “The right has a lot of balls complaining that Bad Bunny didn’t do enough to unify this country… When you only found out a few days ago that Puerto Rico’s a part of it…” ([43:17]) “Why is it the Super Bowl halftime entertainer’s job to unify the country? Oh, isn’t there another person whose job description is much more along those lines?” ([43:35])

• Melber notes the show’s record-breaking viewership as evidence of cultural unity ([43:53]).

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• Ari Melber: “It’s a big problem to have these kind of people exercising power when they feel… the need to lie about their history with Epstein.” (04:36)
• Lutnick (Confession): “I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation...” (06:30)
• Andrew Weissman: “We only have ourselves to blame if we let it slide.” (18:55)
• Rob D’Amico (on Guthrie suspect): “He didn’t come up with a very purposeful thing to cover up the camera... maybe not as professional as I thought.” (38:50)
• Margaret Carlson: “Even if they have no feelings left, they do read the polls.” (33:24)
• Jon Stewart (via Melber): “Why is it the Super Bowl halftime entertainer’s job to unify the country? Oh, isn’t there another person whose job description is much more along those lines?” (43:35)

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Conclusion & Episode Impact

Ari Melber’s reporting pulls back the curtain on entrenched official denials, the slow march of governmental accountability, and the real-world impact on both survivors of elite criminality and ordinary families affected by hardline policies. Expert legal commentary breaks down why truth and transparency matter—and why so many failings occurred across administrations. The show ends on a note of cultural unity via music and humor, a contrast to the episode’s darker political revelations.

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For further details or to follow up on the investigations, visit msnow.com or contact the indicated tip lines for ongoing cases.

Transcript

[Ari Melber]

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[Ari Melber]

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There are several strands to this story we'll get into, but we begin with really something right out of a movie plot. And we've been reporting on this. If it sounds familiar, you may remember the evidence in the timeline that we've been showing you. What you see on the timeline includes Mr. Ludnick, who had said that he cut off all contact with Epstein, all contact dinners in New York, emails, what have you. And you see there later, Epstein talked about blackmail. So he was accusing this man. He said he'd cut off all contact with of blackmail, something that Pam Bondi and others inside DOJ say still didn't happen. And yet those 3 million new files that you see on the far right part of our timeline included Lutnick emailing about visiting the island, which put a lot of pressure on his public denials. And today, what we've been tracking here and what so many in Congress, of course, and independent investigators and journalists have been tracking has now blown up in Mr. Lutnick's face in The White House. Lutnick confessing only now that he's under oath. Today, faced with the damning emails that we've reported that we told you about that others, including the survivors, demanded be released precisely because they didn't believe people like Mr. Ludnick, who made a big show of both denying any past contact with Epstein, having cut off contact, he said, and still talking about him. And I'll show you about some of what he said because it fits into the larger question about how high this goes in United States government. These are also files and emails that President Trump has tried to hide for years. And so while there might be a kind of dramatic or some would even say purian interest in some of this, believe me, honest law enforcement, prosecutors, to say nothing of the survivors, care a lot about why these lies go to the top of the Trump administration. And even today, there's no accountability. Apparently, Donald Trump standing by Lutnick, standing by him even as he visited the island and lied about it. There's also reports today that we discussed last night with one of the journalists who broke the story that another part of the file suggests that Trump was telling law enforcement he knew a lot about Epstein's crimes or alleged at the time what were allegations in Florida. So I'm going to show you more of that tonight. There are different strands of this, as I said, but we've zeroed in on Lutnick precisely because it's a big problem to have these kind of people exercising power when they feel, whatever their motivations are, the need to lie about their history with Epstein. So he testified now today that he visited the island in 2012. So we know he's been lying about that for years, as mentioned as we showed you on the timeline. Now, what's different? Well, the files are out. Putting on the pressure and lying about it today would have risked committing a perjury crime. Those other lies that I'll show you were in public, not under oath. Bottom line, Lutnick is now retracting something he's lied about for many years, claiming that in 2005, he cut off ties with Epstein. And if you happen to watch this program regularly, you may recall that we discussed this. We discussed what the evidence was amounting to last night on this program. I was careful to note that Lutnick had not addressed this or clarified the emails. And so while the emails suggested he went to the island, we weren't even reporting that yet as fact because it had not been fully confirmed. Now Lutnick confesses. Trump White House stands by him There are many questions remaining, including if it was an innocuous visit with his family, why go to such great lengths to hide it? Senator Van Hollen hammering Lutnick today said you were disgusted would never have any contact with him again. Did you, in fact, make the visit to Jeffrey Epstein's private island? I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation. To suggest there was anything untoward about that in 2012. I don't. I don't recall why we did it, but, Mr. Secretary, again, I. As I said, there's not an indication that you yourself engaged in any wrongdoing with Jeffrey Epstein. It's the fact that you believe that you misled the country and the Congress based on your earlier statements suggesting that you'd cut off all contact, when in fact you had not. You realize that you know, this, this visit took place after he'd been convicted, right? It went on like that. The senator sort of trying to address this fairly. No one who cares about the actual facts is trying to do guilt by association. In other words, those emails regard the visit would show that he lied about it. Only he knows why he lied about it. But that is completely separate from other material that suggests, like we showed the other day, a DOJ suspect list that suggests people were involved in, for example, the. The crimes, what was a sex trafficking ring, as the Senator said, and I'll Repeat for clarity, Mr. Lutnick's not accused of that kind of thing, but he kept lying about this in an almost dramatic fashion, which I'll show you. So he says he visited the island with his family, with his wife, kids and nanny. And as you mentioned, as I should say, as Van Holland mentioned, that's the state of play. But why lie about that if it was just that? And are we getting the whole truth now when the only thing he's admitting to copying to is what's caught up in the emails? Are there other meetings? Was there other help? Remember, one of the key points about why this is bigger than just a personal scandal which people could deal with, is the amount of evidence that suggests Mr. Epstein was given special treatment which allowed him to continue these crime sprees, which hurt all these people. So now you have someone who's caught lying about this, who's in the Trump Cabinet, who's part of this group of people who have ties to Epstein, who were hiding it, and this is the same guy, as I'll show you, who says Epstein was a blackmailer, which again, the government has not confirmed or charged Him. For now, the receipts go a long way. It was 2012 when Lucknow. Hi, Jeff. We're landing in St. Thomas early Saturday afternoon. Planning to head over to St. Barts slash Anguila on Monday. At some point. Where are you located? Exact location for my captain. So this sounds very much like trying to go definitely do the meetup. And Epstein said, come Saturday or Sunday lunch. Little St. James on the map behind Christmas Cove. Lutnick responds, okay, lunch on Sunday. See you then. And later, Epstein assistant sent the message to Lutnick, which included, quote, nice seeing you. This is what lawyers would call multiple corroboration context that suggests the meeting took place. Although it's not like we have a photo or a video or that kind of record now, that's 2012. Lutnick claimed very publicly that the last time he actually saw Epstein was seven years earlier. I say to him, massage table in the middle of your house. How often you have a massage?

[Andrew Weissman]

And he says, every day.

[Ari Melber]

And then he, like, gets, like, weirdly close to me, and he says, and the right kind of massage.

[Andrew Weissman]

Now my wife is standing here.

[Ari Melber]

So she looks at me and I.

[Andrew Weissman]

Look at her and we say, I'm sorry, we have to go. And we left. My wife and I decided that I.

[Ari Melber]

Will never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again. So strongly worded with the narrative and the story and the kind of Trumpian imitation style we've seen many of his top officials do where they're trying to maybe be like the boss or create content or have these sort of big stories about what is obviously a matter of public interest. The problem is he was lying. And nothing about the meeting or today's confession suggests that he got confused and forgot. But rather, this was a kind of brash big lie, a way to say, well, I definitely cut it all off. And meanwhile, he. And apparently his wife, who's only in this because of him, no one's throwing a lot of stones at her publicly. Did go back and see him how many times? Well, he's admitting to and denying any wrongdoing. And the White House says Trump stands by Lutnik. Of all the people who could continue to play these roles, funded by you, the taxpayer, the president wants to keep on board someone who's been caught visiting Epstein island, even if it was apparently on the records, just for lunch. There's also new evidence from the files about Epstein's recording, which relates to something. I'm going to quote Lutnick on these questions about what Epstein was up to. These photos show a Camera perched over a suite of bathrooms. Other photos reveal what could be a kind of elaborate long term surveillance room because the door says. And is it truth in labeling or not? But it says 24 hour surveillance. The files have new details about how Epstein had one of the people in his employ work on small hidden cameras. This was back in 2014. The aide responding. I'm installing them into Kleenex boxes now. Remember what we've said. These files, millions of them, are voluminous. The New York Times tracked this down and did the other corroborative reporting. You can't just necessarily learn something from each random email. But there are many stories in the Times and other papers right now and we've done our own reporting, as we've told you, pulling on these threats. The new revelations we got first here on the beat last night from Miami Herald journalist Julie K. Brown recorded how in July 06, Trump called the Palm beach police chief at the time and saying Epstein's activities with teenage girls were well known. Thank goodness you're stopping them. Everyone has known he's been doing this, which as I've mentioned could be a positive. If you say that's a person community talking to law enforcement in the service of potentially stopping something bad. Of course it's Trump who is tied back into this in many ways, socially and otherwise. We're learning this because apparently the chief told the FBI this in a 2019 interview, which would have stayed secret except for the files coming out. Trump telling the chief, allegedly, at least according to his account, that he was around Epstein once when teenagers were present. Trump got the hell out of there. Again, that would sound like a good thing. And yet it also contradicts what we've seen Trump and some of his officials seem to want to do to create distance from Epstein when he became such a public, toxic national story. For example, here was Donald Trump in 2019.

[Rob D'Amico]

No, I had no idea. I had no idea. I haven't spoken to him in many, many years. But I, I didn't have no idea.

[Ari Melber]

To deny what was in a controversy. He said he had no idea this police chief, who again was talking to the FBI in 2019 would seem to be credible. He knows he has to tell the truth or face legal sanction when you talk to the feds and was also someone who had credibility because he had tried to go after Epstein and was interfered with by Washington. If you remember the timeline and those problems. This chief says Trump also seemed to know about how it operationally worked. And Maxwell, who at the time might have been Seen to outsiders as just a woman at Epstein's orbit that the chief remembered Trump said she was evil. Writer telling the FBI Trump revealed Epstein's associate was the operative, that she was evil. Focus on her, he said. And so again, we're dealt with situations here that can be complex. If a person really was trying to help law enforcement go get Epstein and Maxwell for the right reason, that could be a good thing. But why would that same person go to such lengths to publicly lie about that knowledge? And newly relevant Trump won't even rule out a pardon for Maxwell, who again the FBI chief says he knew all the way back then was evil. We've heard that Maxwell's prepared to speak honestly if only glanted clemency by Trump. She pled the Fifth yesterday. Aware of Donald Trump ever engaging in sexual activity with an individual introduced to him by you or Jeffrey Epstein.

[Margaret Carlson]

I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.

[Ari Melber]

That's what it looks like. Are we in the middle of this story after all these years? Are we near the end or could we be something more like just past the beginning? It depends on what you've learned about it and whether you think it is an over kind of dead issue with everything solved or a lot of open strands finally coming out. Here's a Republican senator's reaction to having learned a bit more about the files.

[Andrew Weissman]

I've not been one of the members who has glommed onto this as an issue. I've sort of intentionally.

[Ari Melber]

Deferred to others.

[Andrew Weissman]

To find out about it. But nine year old victims. Oh, that's. Well, initially my reaction to all this was I don't care. I don't know what the big deal is.

[Ari Melber]

But now I see what the big deal is and it was worth investigating.

[Andrew Weissman]

And the members of Congress that have been pushing this, we're not wrong.

[Ari Melber]

That is a Republican from the very red state of Wyoming where MAGA runs strong. So when she says she didn't want to look at it or she deferred to others, the politics of that we all know she may have been in a place where even acknowledging this was worth looking at, let alone a problem, including the Trump DOJ's oversight, well, that may have been hard. And now after all this, if you want to take her at her word, she is discovering it is a big deal and worth investigating. When she talks about the lawmakers who did push this, she's referring to people like Massie and Khanna from both parties. And here was Khanna after going in to look at the unredacted files. There were six wealthy powerful men that the DOJ hid for no apparent reason. When Congressman Massie and I pointed this out to the Department of Justice, they acknowledged their mistake and now they have revealed the identity of these six powerful men. Now my question is why did it take Thomas Massie and my me going to the Justice Department to get these six men's identities to become public? And if we found six men that they were hiding in two hours, imagine how many men they are covering up for in those 3 million files. In that sense, the people who pushed to get the files out are now doing the work of going through them. As I mentioned, that's Khana. We reached out from msnow to each of those named individuals. One Waxner's legal representative responded saying he was told by the DOJ he was viewed as a source of information about Epstein and was not, the lawyer says, viewed as a criminal target. Andrew Weissman is here on all of this when we're back in 90 seconds.

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[Ari Melber]

Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects. @angie.com. We're joined by veteran prosecutor and FBI general counsel previously Andrew Weissman, who's an emist, now legal analyst. Andrew, I mentioned several of these developments. I wanted to focus with you first on Lutnick because it reflects how many powerful People seem to be lying about this, even though, in fairness, we discussed our reporting what is and is not alleged. Does it matter that he lied for so long? Does it matter that the President doesn't see this as any kind of issue?

[Andrew Weissman]

Well, let's just remember he's a Cabinet secretary, so I think that sort of answers that question. It's the public entitled to the truth from somebody who is not just in the government, who works for us, but is at that high level in the government. And I, and this is one where, you know, I guess I'm. I'm enough of a Puritan that my view is, of course we are, and we only have ourselves to blame if we let it slide. And again, I take the reporting that he did not, or there's no evidence that he did anything wrong with Mr. Epstein. I'm basing it solely on the fact that he very loudly and publicly claimed that he disassociated himself with Mr. Epstein. And we now know that is not true. And we're entitled to more from our public officials. And frankly, the higher up you are, the more responsible you are to be candid with the public.

[Ari Melber]

And the big questions are whether the process as it's supposed to work, people investigate crimes, you've overseen all kinds of such projects, and then it goes forward rather than what, by the way, this administration in other contexts has been accused of, which is cherry picking what they want to attack and letting other crimes go quite dangerously in the politicization of doj in that context, Pam Bondi very infamously said that was nothing else to see and no possible blackmail evidence. Lutnick, before today's admission confession, had been talking publicly about Epstein being a blackmailer. Take a look.

[Andrew Weissman]

That's what his M.O.

[Ari Melber]

Was. You know, get a massage, get a massage. And what happened in that massage room, I assume was on video.

[Andrew Weissman]

This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever blackmailed people. That's how he had money.

[Ari Melber]

Andrew.

[Andrew Weissman]

Let'S just remember that with Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche saying there's nothing to see here, that meant that they had seen and reviewed the evidence that we. Now you're reporting that the evidence that they said there's nothing to see here, they that meant knew that what a Cabinet secretary was saying about disassociating himself with Jeffrey Epstein was not true. These reporting in the files of Donald Trump saying that he was very aware in the early 2000s that Jeffrey Epstein had been engaged in this kind of conduct, and they knew that he had said the opposite publicly. So to me, just remember this is news to us. It is not news to the FBI and DOJ and Pam Bondi representing and Todd Blanche representing to us, that there's nothing to see here. So for everything that when you're saying this is new and look at this and this shows X, Y and Z, just remember that is information that the government was aware of when they said, nothing to see here, we're not doing anything.

[Ari Melber]

And so should they have looked deeper at what is described as a surveillance system, the clear efforts to create these videos? Do you think that they've released all the videos that they had?

[Andrew Weissman]

No. So I think there's no question they have not done enough. And I think Congress needs to pick up the slack. One of the reasons I say that is Todd Blanche, in defending his sort of softball questions for Ghislaine Maxwell, said, well, just remember we didn't have all of those emails for inst. The emails between Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell where Jeffrey Epstein says, we haven't heard from Donald Trump. He's the dog that didn't bark. And she responds essentially saying, I was thinking the same thing. And he said, well, I didn't have that. We didn't get that. So to me, what Congress needs to do is find out what is the nature of the investigation, what was done, what was not done, that, by the way, may cross Republican and Democratic administrations, so be it. That this is what it means to do an impartial, unbiased investigation. But they should call prosecutors, they should call agents. They, to your point, they could call the staff of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell to find out where they interviewed, what information they have, and they can immunize Ghislaine Maxwell because she has taken the Fifth. And there's a way to force her to actually testify, which prosecutors know, Congress knows they can immunize her and that takes away her Fifth Amendment. And then she has to answer questions. So if Congress really wanted to know the answers to her questions, they have the tools.

[Ari Melber]

Right? You're giving that roadmap. And that raises a question of, of what they're really trying to do. They, they have lawyers. Some of them are lawyers. I wanted to get into that with you, that roadmap of what would mean to put pressure on Maxwell. So, Andrew, let's do that. Stay with me and we'll get into that after the break. We're back with Andrew Weissman. Andrew, there's been a lot of pressure on what we're going to learn out of these Epstein files. Is it more than, as I mentioned, the Period, interest of this or that photo. Some of that real work is happening. And that's a credit to some of the serious people involved. You write that Congress can do more than what the Republican controlled committee did here with Maxwell. Congress can, quote, grant her a type of immunity. So she has to testify under oath. Her testimony cannot be used to prosecute her further. With an exception, she's already serving 20 years. Immunity will not reduce her current sentence. This is because you argue there is more to the story than what Todd Blanche seemed to get in his unusual political meeting with her.

[Andrew Weissman]

2 Congress called her to testify. And so presumably Congress wanted the answers. And Ghislaine Maxwell asserted the Fifth Amendment. And to be clear, she has a valid Fifth Amendment. In other words, she has an absolute constitutional right to say that she refuses to answer a question that would tend to incriminate her. And I think I can understand why she would assert the Fifth. We can point out that she didn't do that when she met for two days with Todd Blanche, but she still has a right to assert the Fifth Amendment. So normally you wouldn't want to give somebody immunity because you don't want to just be, oh, I want to give immunity to someone who committed a murder or someone who committed sex trafficking. You don't. You want to prosecute them, you don't want to immunize them. But that's not the situation here, because she has been convicted. She is doing her 20 years, and nothing about affording her immunity is going to take that away. And so the way that you can force somebody who asserts the Fifth to testify is to say that we will give you immunity, meaning that we will not use your answers to prosecute you further unless you lie to us. If she were to then lie, you can prosecute her for that. And that time would be actually consecutive to her current time. So if they're interested in getting the answers, and presumably that is why they called her, not to just have a performative display of her taking the Fifth, which I think would be improper because it's a constitutional right you have, and there's nothing wrong with asserting it. If they really want the answers, and I think they should, and I don't think Todd Blanche, in my view, did a very good job of asking tough questions. We also have millions of documents now to confront her with key ones to ask for questions about what happened. They should go ahead and do that. And so I really. This is one where they have yet another avenue to do justice for the victims.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, I think you lay that out well and it also speaks to what has been a clear breakdown in the system. Even Republicans, many conservatives have spoken out about how DOJ failed victims and didn't pursue these leads. That's partly under Donald Trump's DOJ. So here, not unlike the Jan.6 example, you have Congress using its subpoena and lawful powers, it could do more. So it's interesting you. You say that people out there can listen and make up their own mind. Thank you, Andrew. For weeks, America has been roiled by those killings in Minnesota. Now we should tell you the DHS under Trump has finally had an official under oath for the first time. As Congress presses on, that we're going to show you what happened. And later in the hour, we've been talking bad bunny, waiting to hear what Jon Stewart said. By the end of the hour.

[Andrew Weissman]

It.

[Ari Melber]

Was a source of. Of incredible pride. It's a sense of unity, of purpose and of collective joy that we haven't felt in a long time. Trump's DHS officials under oath in Congress. This is the first such hearing since those two killings in Minneapolis and all of the tumult and uproar across the nation around these issues. So this is the head of ICE Border Patrol and the citizens of Immigration Services testifying in the House. They face questions about these tactics, about how agents operating under Trump's aggressive policies killed these two American citizens. The acting ICE director, Todd Lyons, making claims that actually are contradicted with our observable reality.

[Andrew Weissman]

You won't see ICE agents rolling through the parking lots and just snatching someone up. An American citizen shouldn't carry or shouldn't feel the need to carry.

[Ari Melber]

Let me tell you what.

[Rob D'Amico]

I don't know.

[Ari Melber]

I think you have a little database of Americans. No, sir, we don't. I can assure you there is no database that's tracking down site citizens. Yeah. Why are you taking my information down?

[Andrew Weissman]

Because we have a nice little database.

[Ari Melber]

We couldn't show you. These Trump officials just speaking because to only do that would be to seem to reward potentially what they're saying under oath, sometimes contradicting other officials. So somebody must be lying because they're saying the opposite of their own employees and other times claiming under oath, things that are flatly contradicted by the videos we've seen, sometimes taken at risk by citizens to make sure people understand what their government is doing. That's the reality of ice. There are more details emerging as well from inside the facilities, which under Trump have expanded both in how they operate and who they force to wait in there. Take an Irish man who's been held in ice for months. He's lived in the US for over 15 years. He says he had a valid work permit. He's also the spouse of an American citizen. Ask yourself if the resources, let alone the cruelty, make sense in holding someone like this for this long. We're learning more about this because despite some of the lies I just showed you, the truth is still getting out. He called into a radio show in Ireland to recount what he's living through.

[Andrew Weissman]

The best way I could describe it.

[Ari Melber]

Is probably like a modern day concentration camp.

[Andrew Weissman]

I've been locked in the same room now for four and a half months.

[Ari Melber]

I've had barely any outside time. No fresh air, no sunshine. Everybody's hungry, everybody's tired. The toilets, the showers, completely nasty, very rarely cleaned. It's a nightmare down here. This is a different approach to dealing with those kind of violations. If somebody has been here and there's a dispute about their work permit, spending this much money to then put them in those kind of cruel conditions is not how immigration enforcement has been done in this country over the years. ProPublica reporting now that they've published the letters from hundreds of minors and children detained in a Texas ICE facility under Trump. Here's one by Maria, described as a 9 year old girl from Colombia writing, I've been 113 days in detention. I miss my friends. I feel they're going to forget me. ICE used me to catch my mom and now I'm in jail. When I arrived, every night I cried. There are hundreds more letters like that. Immigration experts say these are policy choices, many of them avoidable while still maintaining safety in the United States. We're joined by Semaphore's Margaret Carlson. Welcome.

[Margaret Carlson]

Thank you.

[Ari Melber]

I mentioned what the experts say and we showed the videos. There are many ways into this story with you. I want to discuss the human side, which is what these people are being put through. Children, obviously, but many other adults not accused of any violent crime or other crime, except for whether they have legal status here.

[Margaret Carlson]

Well, and, and they're not seeking to find out because these are sweeps that go on and they know like the little children are being used to get at the parents and then the children get swept up and the detentions in horrible places. And even though the children are sometimes released, the trauma of it, I mean, imagine your child being just taken off and it's like these hearings don't really tell us anything. We don't know. Like, we know enough. Now those people listening at the hearing, the members of Congress, they already know this, but they're caught between two places here, which is they're still afraid of Trump, but they're beginning to be afraid of their own voters. And there's some peeling off. And when you, when you see it, when you're confronted with it, they must be feeling it, and they must be. And even if they have no feelings left, they do read the polls.

[Ari Melber]

They read the polls. They're facing an election in eight months that on the economy, on immigration, which now where Trump is underwater, because people are very opposed to this kind of force, at least against Americans killing Americans, whether they're reading the children's letters or not. There doesn't seem to be anything that Trump has a plan for on this other than trying to change the topic.

[Margaret Carlson]

No. And replacing Kristi Noem with Tom Homan is such a tiny increment better. And in that press conference, he never apologized to the families. He never did. And the only thing he said was, well, we'll make some improvements, but then everything can be improved. So he didn't even really make that admission. There was nothing in that to give us a real idea that there was going to be dramatic change or any change. I think he just took 700 agents out of Minneapolis, but it still left a lot of agents there. So there isn't that wholesale change, which would have been an admission by Trump that it was wrong.

[Ari Melber]

And I mentioned there's complexity in immigration enforcement, but this is so far outside the mainstream. We're not in those debates. This isn't like a path to citizenship debate. I want to show this NPR poll, we're told We're a 50, 50 country on some issues. Not on this. 65%, including a large number of people who statistically would have been pro Trump, saying ICE has now gone too far.

[Margaret Carlson]

Yeah. And now those who are going to be up, Trump's not going to be up, but they are. They have to be seeing this. And so, as I said, even if they aren't feeling it, their conscience doesn't bother them. They will. And they're creatures of their own reelections, so they may do that. You know, there's one other thing about Tom Homan. Do you remember the $50,000 cash in the kava bag? Kash Patel and Todd Blanche said they did an investigation in quotations. Nothing to see here. And he kind of walked away without anything.

[Ari Melber]

Isn't.

[Margaret Carlson]

I mean, if he had to be confirmed, could he be confirmed with that? What's, what's going on there?

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, I think, I think these are again, points where you have to stay on it. And it may be that some of these things are delayed because the Democrats are the ones who would be investigating this, if anyone in the Congress. And if they get subpoenas, then they can. And people are skeptical and cynical and say what does it matter? Well, we just saw Epstein files and a bunch of other things come down because the laws matter and subpoenas and courts still put pressure even as Trump tries against it. So I think that you're reminding everyone that's an open issue that's gotta be investigated at least to get to the facts of it.

[Margaret Carlson]

Because now he's, I mean, he's totally in charge.

[Ari Melber]

He's more empowered. Exactly. Margaret Carlson, always great to see you this time in person. Coming up, something a little bit lighter. You'll never guess what Jon Stewart had to say about maga tears over bad bunny. Next, We turn now to a development including new evidence as authorities still search for Nancy Guthrie, the 84 year old mother of today's show anchor Savannah Guthrie, who is a valued colleague for all of us. The FBI has released newly obtain video. This is from the morning of Guthrie's disappearance. And the videos as you see here, are from the door perspective. So you're seeing what is an unidentified individual with a backpack and a ski mask and gloves. And the individual over time tries to tamper with and obscure what was Ms. Guthrie's doorbell camera. Another video also shows the person approaching the front door at this earlier interval with their head sort of down. You can see that there investigators releasing images. One shows the individual with appears to be a holstered gun in the waistband. Experts have noted it's an unusual way to holster that gun in the front. The Guthrie family says that based on the images provided by the Sheriff's Department of Law Enforcement, which include, of course, the body type and a little bit of the face that's not obscured by the mask. They say they do not believe they recognize this individual. Ms. Now is reporting that officials are also back in the neighborhood of Anne Guthrie, Annie Guthrie, where they are searching around the area as they continue to pursue any possible leads, information, anything. As we look into the case, we're joined by Rob d', Amico, MSNL national security and law enforcement analyst who also has hostage negotiation experiences and enjoy experience, I should say in has joined us for tough stories like this. First of all, welcome.

[Andrew Weissman]

Thank you.

[Ari Melber]

This is the kind of video that would scare anyone. We are not repeatedly playing it for no reason. We're playing it because both the family and law enforcement in one voice have said they're seeking any tip, any information that someone might have based on what they see here. Could be the hint about the individual. It could be that matching up some of this information with other things people know might jog their memory out there. People can call the FBI tip line on that material we've had up on the. On the screen throughout our coverage across the day. People might recognize an item of clothing, et cetera. What does the video show you? What investigative value is it?

[Rob D'Amico]

There's a few things. One, I thought that they weren't as professional as I thought. Maybe in the beginning. I don't think he was prepared to cover that camera, to deal with that camera, as I thought in the beginning. So I. I look at it as. As he didn't come up with a very. A purposeful thing to cover up the camera. So tells me that maybe the reconnaissance that I thought they did was. It wasn't as detailed as I initially suspected. It talks about like he was.

[Ari Melber]

Let's slow down on that point. I'll let you continue. But you're making a distinction between, for example, we've dealt with people in criminal scenarios who might have some other background, training or expertise. And in those scenarios, we've seen this in bank robberies. They might come in much more organized than what we see here with the plants and trying to obscure surveillance that could out them or their details. Is that the contrast you're making?

[Rob D'Amico]

Yes, absolutely. I do assessments where I actually test people's securities and stuff. And I know exactly how to do these things that go up in some of the. The guys I work with, some on the COVID military side. But there's also things that you can learn online and other such. And he just didn't seem that prepared for what he was dealing with, especially trying to get some vegetation to cover the camera.

[Ari Melber]

Does that give you any clue or law enforcement as to whether he is a kidnapper for monetary reasons or has some other potential motive? Obviously they look at all potential motives.

[Rob D'Amico]

I think, I think you had to go in there. We haven't heard about much being stolen. I think you have to go in there with the fact that they're looking to kidnap this person. I don't think it was an opportunity that you had a woman who's 84 that wasn't very mobile. They had to have a plan in order to get her away from that house. It wasn't, I think, a robbery that went wrong, so to speak. I think it was intentional. On this, he took the easy, put a Mask on, wear gloves type of thing. But he also does it. The video does provide some really good things on that. Now they can compare to one they can go, as you saw, they're going around the neighborhood, probably showing this picture just to get, hey, have you seen this jacket before? Have you seen someone of this size? They will probably come out tomorrow with some better measurements, height, weight, type of thing. I think the, the facial recognition, distance, eyes. I think I saw a slight mustache. His lips were exposed in one of those. He could have covered that even more. But they're also going to compare it now to all the other videos like convenience stores that were around the area trying to figure out if he had gone to a store or got captured on a camera in that jacket where he wasn't wearing the mask. Obviously he put the mask on to go there. They want to get something now on a video that shows in a similar jacket or backpack to compare where someone's not wearing a mask.

[Ari Melber]

So there's a number of that matching that as using other surveillance as a triage. And you never know what they might get, especially in a case of such widespread concern and interest. I appreciate you joining us. We're obviously all following this. People can call 1-800-call-FBI with the, with the tip line. Rob Domico, thank you so much. We'll be right back. As the week goes on, many are still in the glow from Sunday's Bad Bunny heartfelt performance, and it's dominating all kinds of discussion. The performer lit up the stage with dancing culture and history. God bless America, Bolivia, the power line workers.

[Margaret Carlson]

That part right there was so beautiful because he's reminding people.

[Ari Melber]

Who couldn't enjoy that take a break from daily life and politics. Well, some of the MAGA leaders and Jon Stewart responded.

[Andrew Weissman]

You know, the right.

[Ari Melber]

Has a lot of balls complaining that Bad Bunny didn't do enough to unify this country.

[Andrew Weissman]

When you only found out a few.

[Ari Melber]

Days ago that Puerto Rico's a part of it, why.

[Andrew Weissman]

Is it the super.

[Ari Melber]

Bowl halftime entertainer's job to unify the country? Oh, isn't there another person whose job.

[Andrew Weissman]

Description is much more along those lines?

[Ari Melber]

And as it happens, Bad Bunny did literally unify the country. It is now on track to be the most watched halftime show of all time, bringing a lot of people together to share something while others just, I don't know, complained about it. I don't get to swear as much as Jon Stewart, so that's the best I can put it. Thanks for watching. I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self injecting with the Vivgard Hytrulo pre filled syringe which contains fgartegamon alpha and hyaluronidase qvfc. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my.

[Andrew Weissman]

Space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit vivgartmyway.

[Ari Melber]

Com that's V Y V G A R T Myway. Com and talk to your doctor about Vivgard Hytrulo. Brought to you by Argenics.