← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Top Trump Official Resigns Over War
00:41:35
The Trump administration’s top counterterrorism official, Joe Kent, has resigned. MS NOW's Ari Melber reports on the highest-level defection from Trump’s administration over Iran.
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A
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A
Welcome to the beat, everyone. We begin with a high level defection from Donald Trump's administration over Iran. We're talking about a top counterterror official. The role huge, whether you know the name or not. Joe Kent resigning because of the Iran war. And this is an anti war kind of conscience resignation, saying I cannot in good conscience support the ongoing war in Iran, noting it posed, quote, no imminent threat to our nation. It's clear we started the war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby. Kent, who is a MAGA diehard, but also isn't exactly known for all factual mastery and election denier, among other things, puts this in a kind of conservative, even somewhat conspiratorial format. But to many on the right, that may resonate. Saying Trump broke campaign promises until June of 25. He writes kind of direct, directly addressing the president, quote, you understood the wars in the Middle east were a trap that robbed America of the precious lives of our patriots and depleted the wealth and prosperity of our nation. Democrats responding to this official speaking out, also noting some of the issues in the nomination, like mtg. This is one of those situations where you can see the people around Trump and the MAGA movement are learning slowly, late, delayed or otherwise, that he didn't mean what he said. And yet that doesn't mean that they themselves have always been credible. Now Trump's pushing back. He says that Kent is weak. A White House official tells Ms. Now there were internal concerns that Kent's departure might lead to other officials also resigning in protest. Again, this is Trump's war. We are in week three. Americans are dead, tankers are on fire, there's economic problems. And his own team, some of them are resigning in protest. May not be Vietnam level opposition, but it is right wing opposition coming from within the MAGA world. As for the real world, Iran struck another tanker off the coast of the UAE. That is the 17th Iran is strangling with a giant chokehold, the Strait of Hormuz, cutting off about a fifth of the world's oil supply. Military experts say it's now the defining issue. They warned Trump will either have to find an off ramp, something that we've been discussing since day one, because there wasn't a clear goal, or if you actually wanted to stop the reality as well, as Trump would put it, the television images that you're seeing here around the Middle east and around the world, it might take ground troops. Here's Trump. The Iranian regime has told Sky News if you put boots on the ground in Iraq, it will be another Vietnam. Are you afraid of that? No, I'm not afraid of. I'm really not afraid of anything. Note for journalists, if you ask Donald Trump a question and then say, are you afraid he is going to say no, meaning that while we're showing you the way he sounded regarding a boots on the ground question, that doesn't necessarily tell us what he's actually planning. Sometimes you have to watch what he does, not what he says. Israel says they killed two more top Iranian officials. US Intelligence believes Iran's regime though consolidating power despite withering airstrikes. Officials see a weakened but more hardline government in Tehran. The Post reports, backed by powerful Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps security forces. In other words, the question is not whether we're getting regime change. Thus far we are not. The question is whether the way the United States has waged the war thus far has given us an equal or more hardline Iran that is simply younger. And does that serve the strategic interests of the United States and our allies in the long run? I want to bring back an expert we've called upon since the beginning of this war, Ambassador Dennis Ross, an expert in Middle east affairs. He was a diplomat and peace negotiator. He worked in the Clinton and Obama administrations. You can see him all the way back here with Obama and then Secretary of State Clinton in 2010. You can go back further when you think about the players. Benjamin Netanyahu runs Israel today. He was also right here in this historic picture with Ross and Yasser Arafat all the way back in 97. He has been writing this week about an achievable goal in Iran, a regime weakening posture rather than regime change. Ambassador Ross, your view of where we are now and why Trump and some of his teams sound so different than a week ago given the problems in the Strait?
- [05:30]
C
Well, I think, look, you put your finger on what is the key to this. This war can't end for the President if Iran is in a position where they deter, determine who comes in and out of the Persian Gulf and through the Strait of Hormuz rather than weakening Iran. At that point, Iran looks like they have a whip pan. It looks like they have leverage over the world's oil supply. We cannot have an outcome where that's the case. Even if, as I think is probably the case, we have done a great deal to weaken the Iranians in terms of their ability to send missiles and drones and cruise missiles. There's no doubt in my mind that the numbers of weapons they have, the stockpiles they have, the production chain that builds those have all been weakened. They still exist, but they're dramatically different than they were. But for the President to say, okay, we can end the war now in a circumstance where Iran is controlling who can come in and out of the, out of the Persian Gulf, that's not a win. And so that fundamentally has to change. You're raising Ari. What are the ways to do it? Well, one way to do it is to have convoys, we accompany all ships that come in. To do that, you're going to have to feel that you have an answer to the Iranian small boats and anti ship missiles and drones.
- [06:50]
A
And how long would you do that for?
- [06:53]
C
I think unless the Iranians are prepared to accept that this is something they are, they're willing to end the war over, I think you have to do that until it becomes clear they're prepared to accept a ceasefire today.
- [07:07]
A
And if they don't to, to play that out, you're saying that's a, a risk to play that out. Then you have a strategic posture where you said, oh, you did inflict air damage on their ability to hit out. But now if you do that over the medium to long term, they used to say no blood for oil. Now you have daily blood for oil because American soldiers are doing that in a proto geopolitical capitalist goal open ended. And some folks would say that actually is worse than the bad status quo prior to the start of the war.
- [07:39]
C
Well, the one thing that would happen is if we're the ones who are doing the convoys. We're not going to be convoying the Iranian ships. If they are bringing us in, then they are denying themselves their own revenue. They don't have a lot of other revenue. Especially now we know they have profound economic problems. So in a sense, you're countering their leverage with leverage of our own. And maybe that creates an incentive to find a way to, for each side to say, okay, let's find a way to end this war. Right now both sides are kind of locked into a position where we're going to continue to weaken them and they're going to continue to use their leverage over the supply of oil.
- [08:19]
D
Yeah.
- [08:19]
A
And then, and you're speaking to the, the so called cards. You know, Trump lectured the, the Ukrainian leader about you don't have the cards. And people take that for how you take it. Real politic. I'm sure in, in your diplomacy, you guys have different types of conversations in public that in private, you know, you were a Middle east peace negotiator, for goodness sake. I'm sure all kinds of talk. But Trump was saying it brashly and there was some criticism. Here you have political reporting, quote, they hold the cards. Now talking about Iran, Trump allies fear Iran is out of the President's control. More than two weeks into the campaign, some of the allies believe Trump no longer controls how or when the war ends. They fear the attacks on the oil in the strait are boxing Trump in. The situation of escalating the conflict is the only way to credibly claim victory. Is that overwritten or is that a version of what you're saying?
- [09:14]
C
It is a version of what I'm saying because basically if they control access to the Persian Gulf, that's a position we've never allowed any country to be put in. When we went to war against Saddam Hussein, one of the main reasons was suddenly he had control over the supply of oil out of the Gulf. We were never going to let the Soviet Union to gain control.
- [09:36]
A
Talking Kuwait.
- [09:38]
C
Yes, 1990, 1990, 1991. And prior to that time, a vital national security interest of the United States was to ensure the Soviets didn't gain some kind of control over the flow of oil out of the Persian Gulf. We're talking about 20% of the world's oil. And we've seen what happens when. Not all of that because the Saudis right now are able to export through the Red Sea because they're using their pipelines about 5 million barrels a day. So it's not at 20%, but we're seeing how disruptive this is, even if it's, let's say it's at 17, 18% or 15%, oil is fungible. So when you're reducing that amount of oil on the world stage, that bids the price up, that's where we are. We cannot allow a hostile power to have control over the supply of oil. Pretty pretty straightforward.
- [10:34]
A
Very. And you're sort of remind. It's almost like in the first week, there were so many factors. The president was struggling to define why this was good. And some of the critics, other than the general mood, were struggling to find all the ways that it is risky. It could have five risks, and if one of them occurs, you're in a problem. And it seems like we're in the oil and economic version, which, which frankly, is not the first thing that many progressive critics of Trump talk about first. And yet it's become his problem. So it's interesting you say that. I want to give you a chance to respond to the. The Trump resignation today and the chatter somewhat on the right and somewhat on the far left about, and somewhat fed by, by sloppy things the administration has said about whether Israel is quarterbacking the United States here. And we can't get into all of it at once. But the Netanyahu government is controversial for many reasons, and there's valid criticism of its foreign policy, its treatment of the Palestinian people. We've covered a lot of that. Then there is a point at which you start hearing this and you say, well, what are people trying to say? And does it go beyond? And you're so experienced in this, you have credibility on all sides. Walk us through what you believe is the valid way to think about it, perhaps, and where the line is, if you know what I mean.
- [11:56]
C
I do. And I think there is a very clear line. Did Prime Minister Netanyahu make a case to the president about the fact that Israel would at some point this year have to go after the ballistic missiles? Almost certainly. Is that the reason that the president made his decision? I'd put it this way, Ari. Was it Prime Minister Netanyahu who said, we're locked and loaded in response to the demonstrations in Iran? Was it Prime Minister Netanyahu who said, help is on the way? Was it Prime Minister Netanyahu who said, we're sending a big armada there? It was the president of the United States. It was not the Israelis. The argument that somehow the Israelis are the ones who pushed us into this? I don't think that's the case at all. I think the president in this case Once should take him at what he says. I think he sees himself doing what no president for the last 47 years was prepared to do against Iran. You can argue he didn't need to do it right now. And I suspect one of the reasons for doing it was a perception of a moment of opportunity. A because the perception was that the Iranians were weaker domestically given the reality of having to put down and kill large numbers of their citizens, and also weaker because they had no real air defense. So I suspect there was a sense of opportunity. I also believe there was a miscalculation or misperception. I think the misperception was if you take out Khamenei and the 40 top leaders, the regime is going to collapse. And that ignored. This is a regime that has built institutions over time, even if it only has 15 to 20% of the population that supports has a pretty dedicated structure of those who believe in it and who realize they're out of power if the regime falls. And maybe it's not just being out of power so they see a personal risk, so they have a stake in preserving it. It doesn't mean by the same token, in my mind, this is a regime that when the war ends, is going to be sustainable over the long term. Before the war, it had no answer to any of the grievances. It drove its population in all 31 provinces, including the countryside, out into the streets. It has no answer to the shortage of water or electricity, a currency that has no value. It has no answer to being able to offer that public any hope or possibility for the future. It has even less capability now than it had before the war. So it's long term survivability, I think is profoundly in doubt. But in the near term, right now, they have an attitude that, okay, the regime's survival is at stake and they'll do whatever it takes to preserve it.
- [14:40]
A
Yeah. Ambassador Ross, on several aspects of this tonight, thanks for being here.
- [14:45]
C
My pleasure, Absolutely.
- [14:47]
A
Tonight we look at a shakeup in Donald Trump's so called deportation agenda and journalists intersecting with one of the most mysterious artists and people say liberal political dissidents in the world. World. I have that story that you got to see it to believe it. That's later on tonight. But first in 90 seconds, we hear from Rev and Molly. We began tonight with what's happening on the ground in Iran and we heard from a noted expert in the region. There are other aspects to this though. When you look at a fundamentally MAGA figure who was in a counterterrorism spot resigning and saying what a lot of other people on the right are saying, which is Donald Trump is breaking his vows, there's discord over the war in Iran. There is the problem of the reason or the rationale or the lack of threat posed by Iran. And then there is the sort of unusual world of maga. This comes up all the time. If you look at who Donald Trump relies on and who are these sort of narrators of their movement, you end up looking at people who are nicest. Way you could say it is violent thugs who hate America, the Venus way you could say it is convicted seditionists, one of the most serious crimes against the United States. And so in no way are we saying these are Iran experts, but they are part of Donald Trump's chosen team. Stuart Rhodes, the Oath Keeper's founder, who was convicted and then pardoned. So, boy, does he owe Donald Trump saying this. I no longer call myself maga. I am an America only patriot. I'm a Christian nationalist, an American Christian nationalist. And so I have to open my eyes to the reality in front of my face.
- [16:37]
C
And it's caused a division inside of
- [16:39]
A
MAGA and it's caused a division on the political right, but so be it.
- [16:42]
C
And so if I lose my pardon
- [16:44]
A
because of that, then so be it. He's out. He can't lose the pardon, although many police might wish otherwise. Again, not an Iran expert, not an honest law abiding citizen. And yet someone who you would expect owes his liberty to Donald Trump, literally did crimes for Donald Trump and now says he's out because of the no more wars promise. Meanwhile, Americans squeezed by the economic consequences Donald Trump ran on lowering prices. He had failed to do that before the start of this war. Now he's got gas prices going up, which everyone who works in this field says was a foreseeable consequence. That was known at the Pentagon, it was known at the treasury, and it was known across Wall Street. So here's Trump's Economic Council director on that problem. The fact is that the US Economy is fundamentally sound and that if it were to be extended, it wouldn't really disrupt the US Very much at all. It would hurt consumers. And we'd have to think about if that continued, what we would have to do about that. But that's really the last of our concerns right now because we're very confident that this thing is going ahead of schedule. I am joined by our experts, Molly Jong Fast and Rev Sharpt. And Rev, when you start losing your Jan6 Oath Keepers politically, what does that tell you?
- [18:07]
D
It Tells me you're very weak. It tells me that you are probably risking a lot of Republican seats in the midterm, and you probably have had no real strategy in the first place. So you're just stumbling along. They're really not giving a rationale to their own crowd of what they're doing. And I think by not having a rationale and having a real blueprint, they're asking their own followers to make it up for them. And they're saying, there's nothing to make up here. We drunk the Kool Aid and we're doing what you told us we were going to do. America first. And we're not. It's also, I have to say, as a minister, strange to me, a guy calls himself a Christian nationalist, but it's all right to kill over 120 kids in Iran, innocent kids. I don't think that's much Christianity being demonstrated there.
- [19:04]
A
And Molly, I don't know if Stuart Rhodes is a literary type, if it's poetic license when he says, you could take my pardon back, but what he's signaling to his audience is you're gonna say, I owe Trump, but this is how strongly I oppose what Trump's doing. A year in forever war is one of several broken vows.
- [19:25]
E
Yeah. And I think it's important to remember a lot of Trumpism 2.0 is fealty to Trump. So remember, he has that cabinet, that sort of rogues gallery of a cabinet, because they sign off on whatever he does. So the fact that you have someone from Trump world resigning is meaningful because it's all about staying in line. And I think, look, there's a larger issue here, too, which is the anti Israel stuff, which is a huge, is causing a huge schism in maga. And you saw that with Megyn Kelly and Infowars. And so there is a real disconnect. But this is the thing, you know, Donald Trump has promised everything to everyone. And you can't both be a Christian nationalist and a Zionist.
- [20:09]
A
Well, and Rev, I asked Ambassador Ross about this earlier concern about the Netanyahu government. Its treatment of people and the Palestinian people is obviously valid. And this is a foreign policy issue. Tucker Carlson hosting the virulent anti Semite Nick Fuentes. And all of these Israel dog whistles feel like foreign policy as a shell around anti Semitism and hate. And you've clashed with some of these folks. You're familiar with the dog whistle. Sometimes they're not all that subtle. How do you view that piece of this? Because Molly points out that of course it's valid to oppose this war or criticize the Israeli government's policies, but Nick Fuentes goes well beyond that, and Tucker Carlson's given him a platform and a home.
- [20:52]
D
I think that they are not going after Netanyahu's policies. They're going after Jews. I mean, let's face it, they have in many ways personified evil as Jews in Israel or beyond, and they've been unapologetic about it. And I think that when you look at such blatant anti Semitism and you do not see the president and anyone responding to it, it's very interesting that he's easy to call any of us radical or whatever, but he's not called these guys anti Semites yet. He's supposed to be Israel's best friend.
- [21:36]
A
And Trump met with Nick Fuentesick, and yeah, for a lot of people, it was hard to decide who was more controversial.
- [21:44]
D
And that is my point. So my point is that the inconsistency in terms of how he measures is something we're used to. What I'm calling out is why are the people that cheer him on when he calls somebody too radical or too woke or whatever not saying, well, wait a minute, why are you dealing with known anti Semites who have no problem being called that? Why aren't you attacking them? What is the measure that you use?
- [22:15]
A
I think that's fair. On a lighter note, how do we get lighter, Molly? We have Jon Stewart, so that's. That's helpful. He makes the point very straightforward, that it might be in the US Best interest to find an off ramp, to not do this for three more weeks for sure. But what if that makes Donald Trump feel that he's not tough? Take a look. But not to worry. This sudden bottleneck of the world's oil supply, it's not a big deal. It's barely closed. The only thing prohibiting transit in the straits right now is Iran shooting at shipping. I know you may not want to sail the slowest moving vehicle on earth packed with the most flammable liquid on earth, through the most active war zone on Earth. But on the other hand,
- [23:11]
E
It's also costing more than a billion dollars a day. So we have lives, we have American dollars, and we have American adventuring, which is what Donald Trump said he wasn't gonna do. And we still haven't gotten a reason for it. Which I think is the most perplexing part of it, is they still haven't been able to cook up some kind of excuse for it.
- [23:33]
D
I think that that is when you look at, I mean, just look at the objective person looking at the news. We have not funded the government. We have TSA workers going into their second week not getting paid. But you're spending a billion dollars a day in Iran for a war that you still have not defined to the American people. And you have not told us when it's over, why it's going on. And I've seen over 120 kids killed in a school. And it took you three days to say, yeah, we did it, 120 kids. I'm going back to that morality of it. And I think that when you put all that together, that's why even his own base is saying that I'm not with him.
- [24:13]
A
And Rev, you know this man, I mean, you've tangled with this man for how long? 30 years?
- [24:17]
D
40 years?
- [24:17]
A
40 years. And he's always been certain things, but some parts of him seem to get worse. Lying about the war and hitting the school is worse than some other types of lies. I think people can understand. You got lives on the line lying this week about a president agreeing with him to some, some sense on Iran. And then they just check. Ain't that many presidents, right? So like the newsrooms, you know, this isn't like when someone says, well, someone in Congress said this and you're like, well, we could make 430 calls, who knows? And all living presidents said it wasn't me, Shaggy. And so it's a serious thing. I know that he wants a low bar, but if we hold him to the normal presidential bar, it's a serious thing to lie about a living president who still is briefed by intelligence and has a certain. And say that they agree with you on Iran when they don't.
- [25:09]
D
Well, it's not only a low bar, it's almost no bar because you'd have no president that said this. And this is the man now that just with all of the tapestry came out with the Board of Peace or something. So he was going to replace the UN and now all of a sudden, he can't find one president that will back up his fantasy that they're supporting him in Iran. So we've done Venezuela, we have now gone into Iran. We're talking about going into Cuba. Cuba, but what happened to Greenland? I mean, have we forgotten that we're going after Greenland? I mean, what is the foreign policy, right?
- [25:48]
A
It would be funny if it wasn't so absurd. And it would be okay if it was just like a risk board game where you just try to get all the pieces. But this is the chessboard of the world here. And real people, the girls in the school you mentioned, that's all there. I want to get you guys on the midterms, where the Republican messaging has gone from avoiding Trump to ducking the war to now just outright panic for Republicans in the midterms. Both our guests say we're on that next support is available 247 with VRBoCare.
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C
Why have I asked my H vac
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B
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D
Make it quick, young man.
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A
Aw.
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A
I think we should call a doctor.
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D
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A
to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com. I don't want to be surprised or blindsided in November. Should we be honest now and say, are we in? Are we in danger? Yeah, we are.
- [27:47]
E
If you look at historical trends, absolutely. The party that's governing wins choices. It tends to be a referendum on that party. And they lose seats.
- [27:55]
A
Two Trump fans discussing Trump's party losing in November, which is getting closer and closer. Molly and Rev are back with me. Molly, it's interesting there because very clearly they're saying they want Trump and Republicans to win. They don't want to be surprised. You can see how sometimes the discourse, whether it's politics, podcasts, media, has a loop and has an impact. And they're saying they don't want to pretend they're doing well. And that would seem to be not a trick. It would seem to be their actual concern, Republicans getting blown out.
- [28:28]
E
Right? And I mean, look, there's the historical precedent, but then there's Just listen to Trump, right? When Trump talks about the midterms, he talks about the SAVE act because he knows that the only way that Republicans are not going to get blown out is if they make it so hard to vote that somehow they get this Hail Mary pass. And I think that that is, you know, literally, you just see him pushing and pushing the SAVE act, which would, by the way, make it harder for women, married women to vote. A group that he does quite poorly with.
- [29:02]
D
No doubt about it, the SAVE act is to save him. That's what he means. And he clearly says the only way to save me is we're going to have to make it difficult for seniors, difficult for people of color, because one person named it, right? It's like a new poll tax. You've got to go pay money and get a passport. Oh, that's going to cost money. Or you've got to get a new birth certificate or that's going to cost money. Or seniors on fixed income, how do they afford any of this? So you're really trying to put people in a way that they cannot use their right to vote because you put impediments there that they can't afford to deal with. Which he thinks brings in a premium to his type of voter. His problem is he's losing some of his own premium voters now with some of the Iran stuff. America first does not run well. When you are in Tehran and Venezuela and they're saying, what happened to America First? By the way, your gas just went up. You're the first to get a oil increase or gas increase. That's where America first is ending up now.
- [30:13]
E
And if you think about him growing his base, right, the 2024 election, he grew with Hispanic voters, he grew with young voters, and he grew with them. And we talked about this earlier, right, by making promises and now we see he's doing things that run exactly contrary. Like it's one thing to have a president who says, like, I tried, but I couldn't do it. But here you have a president who's saying, you know, I was going to end foreign wars, except for all of these wars.
- [30:38]
A
Yeah, well, and that really goes to. What are they Running on in 24? Trump ran on, on the, on the plus side, he's going to lower your prices, right? He's going to release the Epstein files. We know how that went. He's going to end forever wars. That's a lie that we're living right now. And then on the anti side, it was fear tactics around. Here's the problem with Biden. Okay, now you got Harris. Here's the problem with her. They, them trans. What are they running on this time?
- [31:06]
D
They're not running on anything and they're having a problem to come up with what we're running against because he used all the fear tactics before, but now he's the man. And how do you do the fear tactics and how do you come with. Well, we've got to have the SAVE act to keep the illegal immigrants out from voting because they're cheating. They're cheated. But you won last year and your party took the Senate last year and your party took the House. So are you saying that these illegal immigrants put you back in the White House and put the Senate in Republican hands and put the Congress, the House in public? I mean, the illegal immigrants must be on your side if that's who you're trying to do all of this to avoid from voting against.
- [31:51]
A
Isn't it funny? We have all these rules people talk about in off year elections, this happens and then people say in the second term or the this and you know, we're around politics, there's always these things. But with Trump, it's actually pretty simple. He never wins as an incumbent. He got blown out in 18. He was governing and it was a blue wave. It was the biggest blue wave in decades. We all know he lost reelection in 20 and he had an insurrection over it. And so we have to wait and see. I always tell viewers we're going to, we're going to count up the votes like any other year. But if that pattern holds, he's the incumbent right now. And whenever he's actually governing, I mean, this has got to trip you out, like I said, because 40 years you've been going at him whenever he's actually governing, people are like, no, I don't want this. When he's a challenger or he pops back up after the COVID memory hole and he says, I'm going to fix it. And people go, maybe he can. I mean, what about that?
- [32:40]
D
He knows how to sell a deal? Well, I started. He wrote a book, but he had somebody write.
- [32:48]
A
We actually had that guy on the show, Tony.
- [32:50]
D
Yeah, I know.
- [32:52]
A
He knows a guy, wrote a book,
- [32:54]
D
he knows how to sell a deal. But when you get what he's selling, when you get home and open up this beautiful box, there's nothing there. And that's how he's been governing. I can sell why you shouldn't go with this candidate or that candidate, Kamala Harris in 24 or, or in, in 16. But I can't govern.
- [33:16]
A
It's kind of like the early days of Airbnb. You know, you're, you're a classy guy. I don't know if you ever used it back in the day, but when it was first starting out, some of these spots, you would look at the pictures. Looks pretty good. You go there, it was like a whole different house.
- [33:29]
D
Right.
- [33:29]
A
And they, they cleaned that up. So no disrespect to Airbnb nowadays, but you get a final word on the Airbnb campaign. Donald Trump.
- [33:36]
E
Yes. Well, look, Latino voters, it's a great example. And if you look at Florida, look at Miami, look at these mayorships that have just come up. You have Democrats in, you know, jobs they haven't had for 21 years. And that's because you have these Latino voters who are now seeing what mass deportation now looks like. And it looks like they're friends, they're family.
- [33:56]
A
Yeah, people are living through it. Molly and Rev, really great conversations. Appreciate all the points you guys made.
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D
Thank you.
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I wanna tell folks, coming up, when you look at these wars and you say, how do you get people's attention? How do you deal with something? Well, from Ukraine to the art world, look at this iconic moment. I'm going to explain how that relates to dissent and human rights today. Stay with us this hour for that story. But next, a Trump operation backfires. Hey, guys. Finding the perfect gift for the food
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A
There are new signs that Donald Trump's deportation agenda has failed both as a matter of public safety, human rights, but also how the Trump administration wants to be seen. Going into these midterms, which we were just talking about, an influential figure until now, Border Patrol boss Greg Bevino retiring. That's announced for the end of the month. He was the face of Trump's crackdown in Minnesota as well as other cities. And he was seen in his outfits, in his bravado, in his effort to really go even beyond what Donald Trump himself admits the agenda is and see how far they could go. And as you see, they went so far that his career is ending. The militarized ICE raids, which included killing two Americans.
- [36:24]
D
Bovino admitted during a deposition to lying about getting hit by a rock before
- [36:29]
C
he threw two canisters of tear gas
- [36:31]
A
into the crowd known for hammering protesters with arrest when they got out of line. The victim are the Border Patrol agents. The suspect put himself in that situation.
- [36:42]
E
Many are saying it's giving off Gestapo vibes.
- [36:47]
A
Vivino is out. And that's days after Kristi Noem was forcibly ousted, fired by Donald Trump. Tom Homan and Miller are still there. No one is saying everything has changed overnight. But when you look at the actual people running this agenda at the top, you talk about accountability at the top, two are already out. Overwhelming shares of Americans disapprove of Trump. On deportation, which used to be a strength. 60% say ice has gone too far, including a MAGA ally, Joe Rogan. When you're just arresting people in front of their kids and just normal, regular people that have been here for 20
- [37:24]
D
years, that everybody who has a heart
- [37:28]
A
can't get along with that, that is one of the most influential voices who of course signed on to what Trump said he was going to do in 24, which was crack down on violent criminals and other immigrants who posed a threat, which is something a lot of people thought sounded okay. It's not what they're doing. Meanwhile, we can report Florida sheriffs have a group that is opposing Trump's deportation policies. How we talk about this and how it's lived is changing fast. Now when we come back, a story I mentioned that's super interesting. You look at how to draw attention to human rights not only through activism, but art. I promise you this is a good one. Next, foreign. Seems like all eyes have been on the war in Iran, while Russia's war in Ukraine is now in its fourth year. And there have been calls to rally for Ukraine amidst all these other problems in the un. From NATO to activists to even artists, here's an image that was painted directly on buildings destroyed by Russia. This is inside the Ukraine war zone from 2022. If you look closely, that's not a real person, it's art. A woman depicted in her robe with a gas mask and a fire extinguisher. It's a comment on this war's toll on civilians. Many Ukrainians have been busy trying to survive, not just do street art on the side. This piece drew intrigue because it was done in stealth by a visitor in support. The artist named Banksy, an activist graffiti kind of auteur who's tried to be anonymous his whole career. Some dubbed him the most famous anonymous person alive in the art world. He's beloved for these graffiti style murals that you can see on streets in Ukraine, on government buildings in Europe, in war zones. As mentioned, his girl with balloon became a beloved symbol. There you can see it. Simple, haunting. This is from England. One poll found it was the top favorite British artwork in that country, beating out older, more famous works. Of course, it's a simple image from an anonymous artist that can mean so much depending on what you see in this image. Then it became pricey high art and then a kind of spectacle. When this happened at a famous auction. Banksy making headlines again. One of the street artist's paintings auctioned
- [39:52]
E
off at Sotheby's sales at auction for $1.4 million.
- [39:55]
B
The gavel drops and so does the painting.
- [39:58]
D
A remote controlled shredder hidden in the
- [40:00]
A
painting's frame began chewing its way through the canvas.
- [40:03]
C
A shock to everyone, including its new unnamed owner.
- [40:06]
E
The viral prank sh shocking and mocking the art world. That stunt has already increased the value of that painting.
- [40:14]
A
Art or stunt that shredded painting became a different composition. Sotheby's says it was actually the first piece technically created or altered during its own auction. It was then called Love is in the Bin as performance art. People can debate it as for its value, well, the act of shredding it increased the price while bringing controversy to the sometimes stayed secretive art world. Banksy has used these kind of creative endeavors and sometimes dangerous settings to do art and also to say things to the wider world. That, combined with what has been his anonymous mystery, has built this kind of unique and valuable art legacy. This is in the news now because Reuters cracked the case and has identified him. Scouring police reports and government records and human intel to reveal the identity of this long iconic street artist. They draw on a handwritten confession to a long ago New York misdemeanor and identified Banksy as a man named Robin Gunningham, which is a big discovery. His lawyer tried to prevent it. They said the artist does not accept many of the details contained within the Reuters inquiry. They asked Reuters not to publish this account. They argued that Banksy's anonymity is part of a societal interest. Reuter says they took that into consideration, but this artist wields political and economic influence and that reporters can report especially on the rich and famous, even if they are until now. Anonymous. You might say, okay, well, how often is high art and graffiti on the US national news? The answer is not all that often. But this was a big artist who did big, influential and political things with his work. In 2010, he said, I'm not so interested in convincing people in the art world that what I do is art. I'm more bothered about convincing people in the graffiti community that what I do is really vandalism. Graffiti, famously at the intersection of civic activism and art, because you have to break laws to do the work. There's another piece, Love is in the Air, which depicted a masked man trying to throw something. But if you look, you see it's a bouquet of flowers, not some improvised bomb or rock. This has been seen as an anti war image, a protest image that still hopes for the peace of flowers rather than the endless cycle of violence and rock throwing. Kissing Cooper shows two police officers kissing. They appear to be of the same gender, which depending on the time and place that you see that, including some places still today, that itself is controversial or solidarity with allowing people to love. Interesting that the graffiti artist who has opposed policing in some ways here seems to be depicting them as also capable of and having the right to have their own relationship, their own kiss. While also playing with themes of authority. Banksy has repeatedly been interested in the toll of wars on regular people. I showed you that one from Ukraine. This is a refugee piece, the Migrant Child, which shows what was a shipwrecked child holding a pink smoke bomb, wearing a life jacket. You think about the way immigration and the humans caught up in it and the children still reverberates in our country today. This is his way of speaking to those issues around the world. There's another one sweeping it under the carpet that challenged world leaders for ignoring so many important global crises. A kind of a trompe l' au lait, which I'm sure, I'm butchering is a French phrase, but a way of playing with the real world street and the art therein. His art also has challenged institutions, justice systems. This famous piece, you can see shows a jurist or a judge with the gavel, but it seems to be used for a type of violence or oppression. He sold welcome mats created by women in Greek refugee camps, using the proceeds to help other refugees around the world. Banksy's art and the way he's made in kind donations have benefited to the tune of millions of dollars for nurses and doctors in the uk, something he did during the pandemic that Reuters also mentions in that article. Will Banksy be seen as interesting, as influential, as iconoclastic, now that he has been sort of unmasked? We don't know. He's been very shrewd, though, about playing with these themes, from political dissent to mystery, to what we might call the hypocrisy of the art world. Now that he's been exposed, we'll see what his next artistic chapter holds. Signing off the weeknight starts now.
- [45:01]
F
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