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Fact number one, Republicans fear that Donald Trump's obviously widely unpopular second term is dragging them down towards what could be a midterm loss or full blown route. Fact number two, President Trump's administration is now blatantly pushing these abuses of power, some of them unconstitutional, to change that trajectory, not by actually winning more votes, which is what everyone's encouraged to do in a democracy that uses the rule of law, but no, to change it through pressure, through government force, through possibly illegal prosecutions of their perceived foes, not by offering a popular agenda to win more votes. And it is that very clear contrast between where our democracy could be headed. And no one knows what'll happen in the midterms. I'm just telling you what even the Republican Party chair said, that they're bracing for a loss. That's what's happening in our actual lived democracy. And the indicators we have, plus Republican losses in November and then these efforts, some of them possibly on the line, possibly just sort of pushing and squeezing and testing. And some of them, as we've told you, because we'll always keep it real and factual with you, some of them obviously flatly unconstitutional. On the other lane, we're talking about attacks on US Guardrails from elections to free speech, including what we have here tonight. This is the first time we're seeing through new body cam video what was clearly a troubled and chaotic scene as Donald Trump's FBI agents went to seize ballots in Georgia. We have the video from Reporting by the Atlanta Journal Constitution. The FBI approached in a way that clearly left the local officials concerned about not only the unusual federal raid for old ballots from a long resolved race, but also whether this legally required Trump FBI warrant was even valid. So did anybody get a physical copy of the search warrant? No. When did they get here? About 12:30. Just unannounced. Unannounced. Then the FBI represented through these agents we have in the video. They seem to admit a warrant was at least off. I say that broadly because again, we're working off the video. We don't have all the materials, but it was off enough that it required, they admitted, amending to even be valid. The warrant will be amended slightly, but for all intents and purposes, what they had is what it's going to look like. We wanted to let her facilitate us moving through the building to unlock the gates so that we don't have to breach it. Because one way or the other, the records are coming with us today. One way or the other, the records are coming with us. Now. If you've ever wondered if you've never dealt with an agent, whether it's federal or police coming in, that's how they are, that's how they talk. There is a process for this, but they don't sound like they're negotiating. It may be that there were not problems with the underlying warrant that would make it invalid. That's something lawyers can litigate. It may be slight amendments which could be okay. It may also be that this whole case blows up in Donald Trump's face in the long run because there isn't a lot of precedent for, for digging through six year old ballots from an election you lost, where the only known convictions related to that election are from the loser of the election, Donald Trump and his team, indeed, his lawyers were sanctioned in Georgia and elsewhere. But more clearly, what I want you to understand tonight is that video shows the power of your federal government, of armed federal agents seizing ballots from an election settled as mentioned six long years ago now. Donald Trump was the loser of that election in Georgia and of course the entire election that year, he lost to Joe Biden. So I say to you as a news anchor following these stories and always trying to remain calm, what the heck are we doing six years later on this, of all things? Because you're allowed to debate and talk about whatever you want in America. That's a great thing. You are not allowed to use, abuse or misuse federal resources because you lost an election. Indeed, while we don't know everything, and I've been careful to state that in the long run, this is exactly the kind of case that may, like other revenge cases, go up in smoke. But Trump is six years later directing his government to focus on this. His loss. Why? He was the loser in Georgia and the loser nationally, which of course, snowballed into his efforts to join those later convicted thugs who attacked police on January 6, and then he pardoned them all. This is all part of that. The law breaking we know of is on his side, not the other. And he's focused on this rather than, say, fighting crime or lowering prices or any of the number of promises he vowed in his election to, to work on. This is what he's focused on. And quite personally, I don't say he like his administration. And then we're kind of filling in all the gaps. No Donald Trump, new reporting, personally involved in this, taking the step of talking to some of those agents. We saw one of them on camera by speakerphone after the raid. That's unusual. We don't believe the president would usually have all the FBI agents numbers or place those calls. There is a chain of command. But he did it through an intelligence official and questioned them and praised them and thanked them for working on this inquiry through, as the Times puts it, this unusual call. And that may involve another violation because the National Intelligence director, Gabbard, was on site and facilitated that call. It's not clear how her foreign intelligence authority would relate to meddling in a long finished domestic election where her boss lost. She's also, we should note, facing a pending classified whistleblower complaint. Now, just to put this in context, efforts by the president to abuse military or intelligence powers for domestic politics, that's not allowed. That's part of what ended Nixon's presidency. And for those who are skeptical, you might say, well, in the beginning with Nixon, people said, well, I guess he's getting away with it. And he was. That's what happens when powerful people break rules. In the end, he didn't. In the end, many of his aides got in trouble, some went to prison. Here we are at this moment with some of this stuff spilling out and the question again being, will there be accountability or not? But Trump is more blatant than Nixon ever was about these violations. He's also making an unconstitutional public demand to try to get the feds to oversee elections in places where Republicans are losing. Now, that is also a no go. And it's important in these times where people are trying to figure out where is the line and they're testing it. The Republican Senate leader speaking out today saying, no, the president cannot do that. For all the questions about when and how Republicans stand up, or will they just say the obvious Senator Thune did, because this isn't even allowed. So he may be confident Trump won't do it, can't do it. There aren't the mechanisms necessarily to do it. But before I even show what Trump's saying and fact check it, I just want to give you the constitutional limits. Because the Constitution gives states the power to decide the, quote, times, places and manner of holding elections and appointing electors for the presidential election. After the states do that, they are in the lead. Congress may alter some of the state rules, but the president cannot seize or nationalize anything. The president does have a lot of power, and we've seen that in foreign policy. If he wants to go use war powers against Venezuela in real time, we don't see anything stopping him. But the Constitution does stop him and give these other extraordinary powers to the states. And you don't need to be a constitutional scholar to follow the logic. The founders were worried about despots and kings. They were not going to give the president, who is the more unitary officer, control over the elections when they were just standing up this new thing called elections, that would try to remove people from power. So they weren't kings. So it's kind of like, duh. Of course the president cannot and does not oversee his own election or powers. Now I'm going to show you, as promised, Donald Trump's unlawful claim in a recent podcast with a former FBI employee that didn't last that long. In this administration, with the facts in the Constitution, the Republicans should say, we want to take over. We should take over the voting. The voting in at least many 15 places. The Republicans ought to nationalize the voting. We have states that are so crooked and the county votes. We have states that I won that show I didn't win. Now you're going to see something in Georgia. And on he went. The legal fact check is more important. He's talking about something he cannot do, and that Senate Leader Thune agreed today he cannot do. But he will potentially try to see how far he can go. He also lost Georgia. Fact check. The president was false in that claim. And we know that he knows because he was the one making calls furtively trying to get extra votes. Why did he need extra votes? Because he knew he didn't have them because he lost Constitution bars, all of that. Donald Trump doubled down on some of those remarks today as well, when asked by reporters. I'm not going to show you that because we've already fact checked it. And that's enough in terms of our news standards. Meanwhile, you have the deportation campaign. There was emotional testimony today on ICE agents, aggressive and sometimes lethal tactics. Democrats who only have certain levers, since they're in the minority, they are using their platform powers to try to take additional testimony. So they held a Washington, Washington forum where the brothers of Renee Goode, as well as other ICE shooting survivors were able to speak out. When I think of Renee, I think of dandelions in sunlight. Dandelions don't ask permission to grow. They push through cracks in the sidewalk, through hard soil, through places where you don't expect beauty. And suddenly there they are, bright. I am born and raised in Chicago, Illinois, where I learned the values of resilience, community, respect, love and hope. On October 4, 2025, those values were tested when my life was nearly taken by my own government. I know deep down this was God's purpose in having me survive. Exxon. Five bullets. Congressman Garcia also used the forum to put disturbing evidence into the record. These were text messages that Congress has obtained from one of the agents who fire the shots. Ms. Martinez, these are images of texts sent by the agent who shot you. And they're actually, were. They're actually disturbing to read, but I think it's important for the public to see this. The agent linked an article about your shooting and texted, read it. Five shots, seven holes. I fired five rounds and she had seven holes. Put that in your book, boys. Oh, well, it is what it is happens. This is someone that works for the United States government. These are Donald Trump's policies. He is responsible for how his policies are turned into action. The masked menacing, the rampant escalation in violence, the clearly avoidable killings. And the agent looks back on it and says, blank happens. But it doesn't just happen. This is your government. These are your tax dollars. There is a big accountability mechanism above all others. It is obviously elections. And there are people who are concerned, understandably so, about the efforts I just detailed to try to undermine these elections. And yet, on the other hand, we do have some recent examples. Donald Trump was president when he lost the election at the end of the first term, it's the one he's still reinvestigating. And although major pressure was put in the first modern insurrection of our history, even amid all that, ultimately he did leave office, just not peacefully. And we had elections in November and they transpired. And now the question is heading in this November, towards this November, why is the President of the United States testing whether he can federalize or nationalize elections. Why is he testing his powers to go seize ballots once for the past, maybe next time for the present? It is a very real stress test of our democracy. The fact that it can be beat doesn't mean that there are losses along the way. We just showed some of the testimony from human beings hurt or killed in ways that the vast majority of law enforcement experts say were at least avoidable, if not important to investigate as potentially crimes. So that is the stakes of where we were at. Andrew Weissman is here and we're going to discuss this when we return in 90 seconds. CIDP can make your daily routine feel not so routine. The good news? With a self injection for chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, you have the option to treat at home. Discover more@cidpselfinjection.com and talk to your doctor. That's CIDP Self injection brought to you by Argenics Isn't home where we all want to be? Reba here for realtor.com, the Pro's number one most trusted app. Finding a home is like dating. You're searching for the one with over 500,000 new listings every month. You can find the one today. Download the realtor.com app cause you're nearly home. Make it real with realtor.com Pro's number one most trusted app based on August 2025 proprietary survey. Over 500,000 new listings every month based on average new for sale and rental listings. July 2024 to June 2025 hey, it's Olivia from Ollie. Getting better sleep this year is totally doable, but skip the lettuce tea and the mouth tape. These sleep trends are getting unhinged. Ollie Sleep gummies help you fall asleep, stay asleep and wake up refreshed. Just melatonin, L theanine and botanical extracts. No weird wet salad after Better sleep can start tonight. Go to o l l y.com to choose your snooze. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. We're joined by former FBI General Counsel, former prosecutor and MSNow legal analyst Andrew Weissman. Your thoughts on these two paths I mentioned tonight. What is a sustained backlash to much of what Trump is doing and an apparent effort to expand or abuse powers over elections? Well, maybe let's start with Minnesota because that was such powerful testimony that you played it. It is the case that right now to keep it Very human. There is no state investigation that has access to federal evidence because the federal government is not giving access to the evidence for Mr. Pruddy or Ms. Good for no good reason. There's no valid reason I can think of. There's not even an announced federal investigation of the officer who shot Ms. Good. And there is some sort of investigation with respect to Mr. Pradi, but we have no details as to what exactly it is and certainly no confidence that it is going to be independent and fair minded when you have the president and vice president and Stephen Miller and other senior people announcing the conclusion before the investigation. And so you have that on the one hand and you can add that into what you were just talking about and the hearing that you played. And then you have what is very, very scary in Georgia. And I think there is a very easy sort of big picture, which is that Donald Trump is saying that our electoral system is so corrupt that he lost, but he really, he lost name only, but he really, really should have won, but yet he won two elections. So it's just such, so childish. So it's really, when he wins, it's fair. When he loses, it's because it's unfair. But he doesn't explain how the same system is at play throughout, even when it was Republicans who were in charge of the system that he says he lost it. So to me, this is exceedingly scary in terms of what the federal government might try to do in advance of and during the midterm elections. So what happens if he tries to ask the FBI to do this for current ballots rather than past? Well, I think that is something that you can imagine. He would try to get a court order. He could try to have Pam Bondi seize the ballots as he said he regrets not doing previously. But as you said, Ari, I think quite correctly, the Constitution is really clear that the president, I mean, here's, you don't have to be, as you said, you don't have to be a constitutional scholar. Here's the rule. The fox doesn't get to guard the hen house. You do not want to have the president deciding whether he has won or lost the election in the same way you don't have senators decide their own. Yeah, and that's so known. I mean, I don't know if everyone relates to this, but, but I had an older brother and if we had to share something like a cookie, you know, it was one cuts, the other chooses. And that's almost, you know, very basic Solomonic way to incentivize a fair judge. Right. Whereas if I'm cutting and choosing, there's a good chance I take a bigger slice of the cookie. Andrew. I mean, look, so. So that's obviously crap, right? When I ask you, though, as someone who was FBI general counsel, I mean, in the old days and the Nixon examples we have, even there was a lot of internal pushback. Even then you, I assume, well, you tell me if you were ever asked to do anything like that, but your first role would be to reeducate your bosses on what you can and can't do here. Those guardrails and we've covered this, are following internally at doj. So then what happens? I mean, they clearly shopped to indict Lemon, and I may have more on that tonight. We were covering that Friday night, Don Lemonade because they were rejected. So the guardrails were supposed to stop it, but they ended up only delaying it. How does that work if they're trying to use FBI or military powers in a future election? Sure, it's going to go to the courts. There are organizations right now who are anticipating what will happen if the government is violating the Constitution. There will be people going to the court to say that this is unconstitutional. They cannot do it. We have seen district courts, courts of appeals, and even from time to time, the Supreme Court do it. Remember, with respect to Mr. Abrego Garcia, the court ruled 9 to 0 that due process was violated, that you cannot just extract people from the country and shove them in a prison and godforsaken country to let them rot there without providing them notice and an opportunity to be heard. That's what this country requires as a matter of due process. And 9 to 0, the Supreme Court said that. So with all that can be said about the judicial system here, frankly, that's all we have left. We don't see Congress very often stepping up. We have no pushback within the executive branch. I can just to answer your question really quickly about my own role. I fortunately, Having worked for 21 years at the Department of Justice under Republican and Democratic administrations and never was asked to do something like that where I had to have that kind of conversation. And that's because there is whether you disagree with particular policies of different administrations. People are there to abide by the Constitution and the rule of law. And that's true of Republican and Democratic administrations. That's what makes this so unusual. That's why you're seeing even today reports that in Minnesota, more and more federal prosecutors are resigning. Fourteen federal prosecutors in Minnesota alone, which does send a message and also delays at least what some of the efforts have been there. And you may see a hauling out of the government as one of the last resorts a year into this term. Andrew, thank you very much and for reminding us of that news. If you wanted to hit that, we will show viewers what Don Lemon is saying, speaking out. I caught up with him this weekend. He's made his first interview there with Jimmy Kimmel. We're going to show you some of that conspiracy theories that dominate right wing media have taken on a life of their own. We have a special report tonight on Fact Checking FOX with a very special guest. But first, more from the Epstein files next. For all the things that aren't working. The DOJ has been forced to release far more Epstein files than they ever planned to. We got millions on Friday that shed light on on Epstein's powerful circle, including individuals with close ties to both parties and the current president Donald Trump. Thousands of messages with Steve Bannon. Two hours of new footage never before seen although we'd reported on its existence. Bannon interviewing Epstein. They had become allies of sorts. Bannon trying to help rehab Epstein's reputation. This was shot in 2019. Do you think you're the devil himself? No. But I do have a good mirror. It's a serious question. Do you think you're the devil's self? I don't know. Why would you say that? Because you have all the attributes. You're incredibly smart. You remember the devil is somebody knows what the devil's brilliant. You read Milton's Paradise Lost? No. The Devil Scares me. Video goes on like that band and never actually put out what he said was going to be that project. Maybe obvious reasons why a current Trump Cabinet member, Howard Lutnick appears in email exchanges that discuss a potential trip to Epstein's island. This was in 2012. Along with his family on a vacation. But it was years after Lutnick has publicly claimed that he had cut all ties with Epstein. These files which otherwise would never have come out, appearing to undercut what was a Lutnik strategy. Why one would think he would remember this effort to be in contact with him. There are other names like Brett Ratner, who directed the Melania documentary that Amazon paid so much for and just came out. He's in a photograph with Epstein and an unidentified woman or a big powerful law firm. Paul Weiss has its chair, Brad Karp. They recently struck one of those big deals giving millions to Trump last year through pro bono work. And he had what seemed to be friendly interactions with Epstein. Paul Weiss now says he regrets them Trump also, of course, is in the files. The New York times says over 5,000 times with references to Trump and Mar? A Lago and there were other related words about their family. As for Trump, Bannon and Lutnick and Ratner, we should note these new disclosures don't involve any criminal wrongdoing, more just violations of their own statements or claims to have cut ties with Epstein. Republican lawmakers are also focused on the Clintons. There is now a deal afoot to have them give a deposition about all this. All eyes also on Maxwell, Epstein's convicted associate. She will be deposed on Monday. That comes after the DOJ held a very unusual and suspicious meeting between the deputy attorney general and her. The Trump doj, also under the same individual, Todd Blanche, had this to we will always investigate any evidence of misconduct. But as you know, it is not a crime to party with Mr. Epstein. And so as horrible as it's not a crime to email with Mr. Epstein, the American people need to understand that it isn't a crime to party with Mr. Epstein. It isn't a crime to have a party. It didn't look like that's all that was going on on some of those photos. You could hear a little Fox News pushback on Todd Blanche's talking point. It's true there shouldn't be guilt by association. Being in the emails or at a quote party is not itself a crime. But the problem is how this Trump DOJ seems to have avoided pursuing any leads. We now have a chart that we reported on Friday showing all the potential associates of Mr. Epstein. Only one Maxwell actually prosecuted. Here's Congressman Khanna. At the very least, every single person who went to Epstein's island should have an investigation. Just to say these were just rich people who are playboys, that's just disrespectful to these survivors. We are still in the journalistic community going through what are millions of documents, files, photos, videos. And we will continue reporting out what we know in context. We will hear from Don Lemon tonight as he has now spoken out since his arrest. But first, you know, the HBO hit succession. You know Fox News has settled a lot of defamation trouble. Tonight we get into the real life Murdoch succession. Next, CIDP can make your daily routine feel not so routine. The good news, with a self injection for chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, you have the option to treat at home. Discover more@cidpselfinjection.com and talk to your doctor. That's CID cidpselfinjection.com brought to you by Argenics Isn't home where we all want to be? Reba here for realtor.com, the Pro's number one most trusted app. Finding a home is like dating. You're searching for the one with over 500,000 new listings every month. You can find the one today. Download the realtor.com app cause you're nearly home. Make make it real with realtor.com Pro's number one most trusted app based on August 2025 proprietary survey. Over 500, 000 new listings every month based on average new for sale and rental listings. July 2024 to June 2025 hey, it's Olivia from Ollie. Is it just me or are these wellness trends getting ridiculous? Protein tracking, biohacking? It's too much. Start small with Ollie's daily multivitamin. Just two gummies a day help support your immune system, heart and bone health. It's that easy. Less tracking, more doing. You boo. Go to o l l y.com to learn more. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Ollie. Anyone who believes that I'm getting out, please shove the bunting up your this is not the end. I'm going to build something better. Something faster, lighter, meaner, wilder. Conservative mogul Rupert Murdoch has been merely captured by HBO's hit Succession, a show that satirized politics, media billionaire excess with characters clearly based on the Murdochs and a cable news channel drawing on aspects of Fox News, including how even the so called owners can sometimes lose control of the very passions they unleash in their audience. Murdoch built a media empire, originally on newspapers and tv, then bought up some prestige outlets like the Wall Street Journal, fusing a business style with his own right wing agenda. You had the will to crush the unions. Now I didn't have the will to crush the unions. I might have had the desire, but that took several years. I didn't. I did. It just took a while. Murdoch, of course, wrote the global business playbook, which many copy now, trotting into different countries, deploying media assets quite blatantly as political leverage, not independent journalism. He overseed companies that break all kinds of rules. Media outlets caught for illegally hacking into a child's foam. That proved too much even in the rough British tabloid world. Fox News has paid out for sexual harassment at the very top, and then the record $780 million punishment for lies about Trump's 2020 loss. Critics say those are terrible acts by powerful companies. Some capitalists say Fox paid a lot more for those lies than it ever made on them, at least in the short term. And politicos marvel at how Murdoch built an empire that doesn't just cover governments, but quite literally helps pick some of them beyond a conservative news empire. He reacted a fourth branch of government, a propaganda machine, monetizing outrage, spreading conspiracy theories and shaping the minds of millions. He created the Trump presidency, writes Gabe Sherman, the author of a new book about the mogul, which explores something else that we're about to get into, how all that power didn't enable Murdoch to really pump the brakes on Trump. When Murdoch finally concluded that maybe things had gone too far. Nor could he even maintain an orderly succession for his replacement in the empire, let alone family peace, a succession drama which spilled into court and forms the messy human side. In this new book, Bonfire of the Murdochs, how the epic fight to control the last great media dynasty broke a family and the world. I Vanity Fair's Gabe Sherman, a longtime media reporter, welcome. Thanks, Hari. Good to be here. That point, all this money and planning, but it didn't ultimately work for his business succession, let alone family peace. Tell us about that. Yeah, I mean, that's one of the themes of the book that Rupert basically, Rupert Murdoch built this media machine that devoured itself. You know, famously back in 2015, he did not want Donald Trump to be the Republican nominee. The Fox News audience did. And he had no choice but to jump on the bandwagon because if they tuned out, if they went against Trump, the audience was going to defect. And so Rupert Murdoch became hostage not only to the Trump MAGA base, but also became hostage to his own children who were fighting each other for control of the empire. And there's sort of a tragic irony that a man so powerful as Rupert Murdoch is spending the final years of his life feeling powerless. Was that unavoidable, almost more Shakespearean, or did your reporting find that really was mistakes he made that had he just picked the right person earlier on and stuck with it in a different way that his conniving almost seemed to be like he was either used to running the game, which they show in the HBO show, or couldn't unlearn that? Yeah, I think it's really more the Shakespearean aspect. I mean, this is something that was rooted in his childhood. His own father was very dismissive of him. He had the same sort of judgmental attitude towards his own children. And I think the book shows how these patterns have just repeated through the generations. And again, I Think carries over to the politics as well. Rupert Murdoch loves to play the political game, but what he loves more is profits. And Fox News profits were the engine of the whole empire. And once Fox News latched on to Trump, it was basically a bull that he had no choice but to ride. You also humanize him, which could be hard, but he is a human. But, yeah, he's. Fact check. He is a human. Yes. Yeah. And so, you know, you show a lot of things that are ripe for criticism. The greed, the law breaking. And I think informed Americans have. They know what Fox is. But then you show that this was a guy who was in, allegedly a dispute with his wife, and she pushed him so hard, he, like, fell down and breaks his. Wendy. Yeah, they had a big. Yeah, yeah. Breaks. Breaks a bone. You show him fighting for his life on the side of a mega yacht. Most people would say, all right, well, whatever, you're mega yacht. But. But you show someone in the way you. You report those stories, a fighter who would not give up. Was there something about that in him? I mean, of course. I mean, people might play the world's tiniest violin when you talk about the struggles of these billionaires, but there is something deeply human about someone who has all this power, but in the moment and feels like their life is on the line, whether it's with his children, whether it's his health crises. And again, I think there's something. It's just a riveting story. Again, if you can separate out the politics. I just find it from a, you know, the empire he built, whether you like it or hate it, you can't deny its power. How do you find that your reporting is being received in his circle or in Fox News? Because in the same way that we're TV here, Right. We're a competitor to them. But I'm trying to do this fairly. Yeah, you're doing your thing, but you're dealing with a lot of media people. Yeah, I mean, so far it's been quiet, so we'll see. I mean, I'd love to get feedback on the book, but I've not heard from them directly. So. Yeah, you don't feel like they're on the attack or anything. And is he really in the background now? I mean, he really has his son running the empire. Yeah. So Rupert Murdoch turns 95 on March 11, and his son Lachlan is now firmly entrenched as the CEO. And, you know, really was the passing of the torch. That said, he's not out of the game. I mean, Rupert Murdoch Will never be out of the game. I mean, I think it will be on his way to the cemetery, still trying to make a phone call. Would you say don't hate the player, hate the game? In what sense? Don't hate the mogul, hate the game. Or some people think the mogul did a lot of bad things. I mean, I think he also created the game. I mean, he was such a good player, he changed the rules of the game. Yeah. And game recognized game. Yeah. Gabe Sherman, thank you. The book is Bonfire of the Murdochs. It's out now if you want to learn more about what we just discussed. I finished the book. It's an interesting read. Coming up, we will show you what Don Lemon is saying, his first remarks since leaving court there on this arrest. Journalist Don Lemon did his first interview since that Trump arrest and he spoke to Jimmy Kimmel. I press the elevator button and these. And all of a sudden I feel myself being jostled and people trying to grab me, put me in handcuffs. And I said, what are you doing here? And they said, we came to arrest you. And I didn't have a warrant. So they had to wait for someone from outside, an FBI guy to come in to show me a warrant on a cell phone. They took me outside. FBI guys were out there. I mean, it was a host. It had to be maybe a dozen people, which is a waste, Jimmy, of resources. They want to embarrass you, they want to intimidate you, they want to instill fear. And so that's why they did it that way. It's a fair point. Mr. Lemon and his attorneys have mentioned they offered through standard process because they knew they were under investigation to go turn themselves in. And that's the standard approach. This was something closer to a so called, quote, perp walk or effort to create spectacle and content as they went to arrest him with that large number of agents. Now, these ICE protests have gotten a lot of traction and attention. How are they working? We answer that when we return. This national backlash to ICE continues. We see protesters and organizers pushing their activism on the ground both in the cold areas of Minnesota and elsewhere. Over in Washington, we showed you earlier tonight Democrats using their platform abilities to take testimony and seizing on the shutdown clash to try to curb some ICE powers. We also saw it at the Grammy Awards in California, which celebrated diversity, handing the first ever album of the year Grammy to a record in Spanish. Many artists seizing the moment to speak out, from Bad Bunny and Billie Eilish protesting Trump administration violence against immigrants and the ICE out Pins that were seen throughout the hall. To the best new artist winner, 26 year old Brit Olivia Dean, celebrating her heritage as a granddaughter of a Jamaican Guyanese immigrant, and sang in her speech, she comes from that immigrant lineage. And then there were standouts like newcomer Leon Thomas, taking home the prize award after his breakout year. Tonight we are joined by Leon Thomas, the artist, producer and longtime actor. He got his start on Broadway in shows like the Lion King in the Color Purple, worked on Nickelodeon. He's taken the music industry by storm, especially over the past year. He has worked with many beloved artists like Babyface, SZA and Drake. But his album this year, Mutt, which went number one, has been a sensation. She said, take your time, Leon. You are by far the greatest new male R and B singer doing it today. Every artist that's been up here has given all the praise and props and flowers to Leon Thomas. Billboard credits Thomas with reinvigorating R and B today with his blend, his take on it, of quote, soul, funk, rock and hip hop. He's also gonna tour with Bruno Mars this year. Welcome to the beat. How are you, man? How you feeling? How does this all feel? You on the one hand, have been at it for a while. You know how to express yourself artistically, but you gotta admit, it's been a lot recently. Absolutely, man. It's been such a surreal moment. You know, I feel like everything is really coming into fruition. I've been manifesting moments like this, you know, my whole career, and I'm really just doing my to stay present and, you know, really just give my best efforts out there. For a lot of people in music and people of a younger age, Mutt right now means your album. Of course, there's a pedigree, if you'll pardon the wordplay, a larger pedigree. Here you say she said, take your time. What's the rush? I said, baby, I'm a dog, I'm a mutt. And you've explained that is both poetic and literal. Because you got a dog and a breakup. Tell us about that. Absolutely. You know, for me, it was my first time owning a dog and I fell in love with this guy, but he's kind of rambunctious. You know, I had a bunch of things going on all at once between performing and recording this album, so I didn't really train him exactly how I was supposed to. And anytime he would get in trouble, I would see a face that he would make that really kind of reminded me of myself. And it was a cool way to kind of just kind of add a very classic energy into what I'm doing. You know, thinking back, George Clinton with Atomic Dog, Elvis Presley with the Hound Dog. It's been a theme popular culture. And, you know, I just figured I'd, you know, do my take on it musically. And it's. It's been crazy to see how, you know, it's been spreading like wildfire. Yeah, I'll meet you on the references. Elvis is, of course, a classic one Snoop Dogg doggy style. And he literally turned into a very strong, you know, black, like, German shepherd looking dog in the video. Dmx. All about the dogs. What is it about you looking at both, I guess, the potentially the positive and some of the negative. When you talk about not being, you know, ready for everything or trained for everything, I just think it's genuinely about vulnerability and, you know, finding ways to kind of just be honest with your. With your listeners. I mean, the entire album is called Mutt because I was going through all of these changes and really learning how to be, you know, a man went through within relationships and taking accountability. And I think that was like a really beautiful process, very therapeutic process during this album. And I knew for a fact that that was a term that could be used and be understood worldwide. You know, one of my favorite quotes is from Bukowski, and he said, an intellectual takes a simple thing and makes it complicated. An artist takes a complicated thing and makes it simple. Exactly. And that we can relate. And even one line from Dancing with Demons, you say, nobody said how dark the light be. Exactly. Very, very compact. What are you saying there? It's just really talking about some of the negative aspects that come with fame and being able to really deal with the spotlight in a way that's positive and healthy. So many artists go through a lot of twists and turns, and I was just genuinely speaking to a lot of the things that can come kind of come with notoriety. A lot of folks get down with the Vibes Don't Lie song, and I'm just gonna read it. You say you shouldn't have to try alone Tell me if you're mine or no we like Wheezy and Styrofoam. She got her own Vibes don't lie like the mouth do. Vibes don't lie and that's the hook. What does that mean to you? Or when did you feel like, oh, yeah, that's. That's something in your life? Well, I mean, I think it's. It's. It's an interesting landscape we're in when it comes to dating right now. And I. People tend to filter their life, filter the things that they say in order to be wanted. And what I was speaking to was just the energy that doesn't lie, the actions that don't lie. Do people quote that back to you now? Absolutely, man. It's a nice conversational piece when people meet me and they'll say it and pass. And I think it's real fun that a lot of these songs are translating in such a real way that the culture is responding to it in a way that they can even use a lot of these terms and these song titles in everyday life. And vibes, of course, are long standing. Not for me to overanalyze it, but vibes are a long standing concept. And yet this. Right. But this song sort of became a way where you're like, yeah, vibes don't lie. And like, and what good is it? You could be in a place that's supposed to be something or supposed to be fancy or you name it. And if the vibe's off, you don't. You don't even want to stay. Exactly. Leon Thomas, thanks for joining us. Thank you so much, man. This was actually really surreal. I watch the show all the time, so thank you for having me. Oh, respect. We love to hear that. Great. I hope to meet you in person as well. Leon Thomas. Thank you, sir. Man. Thanks. Peace. Our thanks. Leon Thomas, who we just learned is also a beat viewer and as you can see, like some of the other new artists coming up, he had a great Sunday night at the Grammys. Congrats on those awards there. If you want to let me know what your favorite moment is from the Grammys or this week with a lot going on, you can follow me remelber on social media and tell me what was your favorite moment in the Grammys or in any of the music that we spoke about with Leon tonight. You could see he knows his predecessors and was quick to rattle off some of them all the way back to Elvis. Again, that's at Ari Melber on the platforms you see there? That does it for us. Imagine relying on a dozen different software programs to run your business, none of which are connected, and each one more expensive and more complex, complicated than the last. It can be pretty stressful. Now imagine Odoo. Odoo has all the programs you'll ever need and are all connected on one platform. Doesn't Odoo sound amazing? Let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for a fraction of the price. Sign up today@odoo.com. that's o d o o dot com.