← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Trump ally Bannon reveals Trump third term plan
00:41:31
Trump ally Steve Bannon says President Trump will serve a third term, despite the 22nd amendment. MSNBC’s Jason Johnson reports and is joined by Ankush Khardori and Molly Jong-Fast.
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- [00:02]
Stephen Dubner
Are you curious about the hidden side of everything? Then I have a podcast for you. I'm Stephen Dubner, host of Freakonomics Radio. Each week we hear from some of the most fascinating scholars and thinkers as we tackle big topics like how whales became the face of environmental activism, how to succeed at failing, and whether public transportation should be free. Go ahead, listen to Freakonomics Radio wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:31]
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- [00:59]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Welcome to the Beat. I'm Jason Johnson and for Ari Melber tonight, the stunning satellite photos that show what Trump has done to the White House. Plus, new fears about Trump's plans for the biggest and most powerful aircraft carrier ever built. And our live interview with the man who was detained for protesting National Guard deployments with Star Wars Imperial Death March. I can't. All that is coming up. But first, one of Donald Trump's retribution targets fighting back today in court. New York Attorney General Tish James pleading not guilty to alleged bank fraud charges after being indicted earlier this month by Trump's doj. James met with cheers as she spoke defiantly outside the court after the hearing.
- [02:08]
Molly Zhang Fass
This justice system which has been used as a tool of revenge and a weapon against those individuals who simply did their job and who stood up for the rule of law and a justice system which unfortunately is nothing, being used as a vehicle of retribution.
- [02:32]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
James team asking a judge to dismiss the case, calling the appointment of interim U.S. attorney Lindsey Halligan, who was also Trump's former lawyer and who brought the case against James unlawful, saying she, quote, lacked the power to present the case to the grand jury and sign the indictment. It is the same argument being made by former FBI Director James Comey in his case. They will have a combined hearing over this next month. James trial is set for January 26th. James Comey and James and Comey joined the expanding list of presumed innocent Americans subjected to to Trump's petty revenge. And America is noticing a new poll from Quinnipiac University showing Most Americans, 52%, think Trump is using the DOJ to file unjustified criminal charges against his perceived political enemies. This on top of his push to transition from president to dictator, made clear again by his long term ally, Steve Bannon in a recent statement.
- [03:37]
Congressman Adam Smith
He's going to get a third term. So Trump 28. Trump is going to be president. 28. And people just ought to get accommodated with that.
- [03:44]
McCormick/Advertisement Voice
So what about the 22nd Amendment?
- [03:46]
Congressman Adam Smith
There's many different alternatives. At the appropriate time, we'll lay out what the plan is. But there's a plan and President Trump will be the president in 28.
- [03:56]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Joining me now to discuss is Ankush Kardori, former federal prosecutor and legal writer with Politico and Molly Zhang, fast contributing opinion writer with the New York Times and MSNBC political analyst. Thank you all so much for joining me today. Ankush, I'll start with you. I just want your immediate thoughts to what Steve Bannon said. This is not the first time he has said that Trump is going to run again, but now he has gone further to say he will be president, he will run again and he will be president. What's your reaction to hearing that kind of confidence from one of the mainstays of the MAGA movement in America?
- [04:32]
Ankush Kardori
Look, well, it's very unsettling. I think the prospect of Trump serving a third term should be out of consider given the way that the Constitution is structured. I do understand that there is some discussion about some potential novel theories to sort of try to make it happen. Obviously, this has never happened before since the Umbrella Amendment was passed. So this would be extraordinarily unprecedented to even attempt it, extremely disruptive to the American constitutional system. And not for nothing, I'm not even sure it would work. Trump is extremely unpopular right now. And I would, you know, it remains to be seen. There is plenty of time ahead of us, but he does not seem to be on a trajectory anytime to reverse his extreme unpopularity with the American public right now.
- [05:17]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Molly, given what we've seen from the current Supreme Court, which is dominated by conservatives, the likelihood that they're going to gut the Voting Rights Act. Do you think that the Supreme Court would stand in the way if Trump attempted to sue on behalf of his party's plan for him to run again? Where would, where would the pushback come from? Because I don't know that I believe that the court will be the one to stop it.
- [05:42]
Molly Zhang Fass
You know, I would suggest not taking this very seriously. And because a, I think Steve Bannon has been trying to sell this forever. And you know, Steve Bannon maybe wants Trump not to be a lame duck because that shows that he has less power. There are all sorts of reasons for Steve Bannon to be pitching this theory, none of which have to do with real life. The other thing I would say is Donald Trump is the oldest person ever to be president. Now, I know he's not Joe Biden, so people can't write books about how old old he is, but he is still very, very old. And in 2028, he will be 83 years old. And he also has, and I think this is a really good point, he is wildly unpopular. He is now polling the lowest he has ever polled in either of his presidencies. So the reality is there are many things that Steve Bannon wants and good for him. I want a lot of things, too. I want, you know, I want a cleaner planet. I want, you know, we all have things we want, but this is one of these things that he's not gonna get. And I think that it only helps him to say stuff like this, cuz it gets him in front of Trump and Trump likes it and Trump loves a troll, but we have rules and laws and the rest of us have to follow them. And this is how it works. So that would be my move. And I think that this last weekend, more than 7 million people got out there and protested. It was the largest protest since Earth Day. So clearly the American people are not dying for a third Trump term.
- [07:15]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
You would think Americans are excited about keeping their planet and probably getting rid of President Trump. I want to. Ankush, I want to play this sound from AG James outside the court today. Get your thoughts on the other side.
- [07:28]
Molly Zhang Fass
I will not be deterred. I will not be distracted. Yeah, I will do my job each and every day. And that's why I'm headed back to New York, because there's work to be done.
- [07:46]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Stand up. Ankush. What does it say that many of the people that this administration is weaponizing the DOJ after, they're not just pushing back, they're standing up, they're saying, come get me. Pull up. Like, what does that say about how people really look at this administration and whether or not they fear it?
- [08:06]
Ankush Kardori
Yeah, no, there's a very good point. Because typically the advice to a charged criminal defendant is keep your mouth shut, don't say anything. When that person is a public official, they may want feel like they need to say a little bit more. But it is very rare to see, like, the video we saw from James Comey, the speech, you know, the comments that you just offered from Letitia James. And I think they reflect the very conspicuous weakness of the cases against them. I think they're confident that they're going to prevail. I think the odds based on the publicly available information about both Letitia James case and the James Comey case, the odds that they will either will result in a conviction seem very low to me. The cases seem very, very weak, particularly James case, based on the information available. I would feel, you know, it's never going to be a comfortable situation to be a criminal defendant. But these are highly sophisticated people. They understand the system and they seem to understand quite well that their odds of prevailing at the end are high.
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Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Speaking of weak cases, NBC Molly, there's a new story out of NBC News, a probe into Adam Schiff's st Walls basically because there's no evidence. What does it say that when Trump is trying, they're the gang that can't shoot straight. Right. He's going after his perceived political enemies, but they, they aim worse than stormtroopers. What is that saying about how this administration even functions on their revenge tour?
- [09:29]
Molly Zhang Fass
Yeah, and I think that's a really important point. Trump is a paper tiger. Like, he seems scary, but if you push back peacefully, you win. And we see this, you know, we saw that this week with the universities, right. They had this compact they people to sign and MIT was like, nope. And then everybody else was like no. And that's because they know. And when you listen to Tish James, what you hear is a woman who can be governor, right. She sees that is there is a lot of political opportunity there. And good, I'm glad she should get something out of this. But when you're listening to her, you hear campaign right. Because she knows she is being targeted politically and she should take advantage of this politically. And by the way, you know, if she primaried our sitting governor, there's a real chance that she would win. And she is because she really has the anti Trump mandate and she can point to Donald Trump going after her. And I think that's a real opportunity. And you know, Democrats in Trump 1.0, it was a very different scenario and there were still guardrails. But Democrats failed to take advantage of some of that political wind. Right. They failed to take advantage of being on the right side of history. Now things are much darker and there really is an opportunity for Democrats to run against this stuff because it's not popular.
- [10:48]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Unfortunately. Molly, my alma mater is one of the schools that did capitulate University of Virginia. But yes, most, most actually stood up to what this weaponized DOJ was trying to do. Ankush, I'll also ask you this. When we're looking at people's ability to resist when they're being persecuted by this doj. This is expensive, right? I mean, and we've seen this administration has attacked law firms and legal entities that usually protect people or come to their defense when there's government overreach. Comey James Bolton, they have resources. What will other people do once they're sort of being targeted by this DOJ is are there NGOs, are there opportunities for people to be protected who aren't as high profile as these individuals if Trump comes for them?
- [11:34]
Ankush Kardori
That's an extremely good point because one of the things I like to impress upon people is that the most prominent people who are the targets are kind of the people we need to worry the least about because as you said, they have resources, access to media and the like. With respect to other folks, it depends on kind of the nature of what they're on the receiving end of and what their position is. For instance, there are nonprofits that are prepared to defend DOJ employees in legal cases if those cases are brought against them. And some of the, you know, it's harder for public officials to accept pro bono or reduced fees for a variety of ethical reasons. Private citizens can, however. And some of these attorneys, some of the prominent attorneys you've seen around, have been providing reduced rates to some of the private citizens who have been in the news. So there are sort of multiple options here. But yes, ordinary courts and it can be expensive and there are some sort of alternatives emerging.
- [12:32]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Ankush, thank you so much for joining us to start off the show. Molly, you're staying with me. Coming up, the stunning twist in Donald Trump's demolition of the White House. Plus, why even some Republicans want answers about Trump's shadow war against Venezuela. And later in the hour, a special guest on the free speech fight involving National Guard troops and Darth Vader's theme. We're back in just 90 seconds on the Beat.
- [13:01]
Stephen Dubner
Are you curious about the hidden side of everything? Then I have a podcast for you. I'm Stephen Dubner, host of Freakonomics Radio. Each week we hear from some of the most fascinating scholars and thinkers as we tackle big topics like how whales became the face of environmental activism, how to succeed at failing, and whether public transportation should be free. Go ahead, listen to Freakonomics Radio wherever you get your podcasts.
- [13:30]
Indeed/Advertisement Voice
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- [14:28]
Congressman Adam Smith
Since I joined four months ago, I've.
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Molly Zhang Fass
Lost £25 and it has changed my life.
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McCormick/Advertisement Voice
Henry meds personalized compounded GLP1 meds shipped to your door. Take back control with treatments designed to reduce appetite. Schedule a free online evaluation with a licensed provider@henrymeds.com audio and get $100 off your first month. Results may vary. Not all patients are eligible. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Consult a healthcare provider to determine if treatment is right for you.
- [14:53]
Congressman Adam Smith
Foreign.
- [14:58]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Of the White House is Now Gone these are new satellite photos showing the demolition the east now reduced to rubble, all to make way for Trump's 300 million dollar ballroom. The East Wing was built during Teddy Roosevelt's presidency. It stood for 123 years. Trump raised it in three days. It's a story dominating headlines and our culture.
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Molly Zhang Fass
Now, it would be bad enough if.
- [15:28]
Ankush Kardori
Trump's biggest priority was building a gilded vanity project for himself, but it's so much worse because to do it, he's tearing down a somewhat well known and beloved piece of property. You may have heard of it, the White House.
- [15:39]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
This Guy's been taking 15 years to give us a health care plan, but in three and a half days he's demolished half the White House. Speaking of the ballroom, I saw that the White House just released a list.
- [15:48]
Michael Perloff
Of donors giving money to the project.
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Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Yeah, the Americans heard him like, yeah, still not the list of names we're looking for, but you're getting closer. ABC News now reporting Trump will likely name the ballroom after himself. Officials are already referring to it as the President Donald J. Trump Ballroom Molly Zhang Fass is back with us to discuss Molly, you know this disturbs me for so many reasons. One full confession. I've never been on the full White House tour, so I will never get to see it now because Part of the building has been destroyed. I will not. They probably wouldn't let me in. But beyond that, I just want you to first talk about the idea that this wing is being funded by private donors. The idea that the People's House is now going to be part of something that says, brought to you by Home Depot, McDonald's and Verizon. What does that say about this administration?
- [16:46]
Molly Zhang Fass
Well, I think that. Right. The reason that usually the government uses taxpayer money and not corporate donors is because of the idea that then those corporations would have influence. Now, I'm not convinced that this White House understands how that works. Or maybe they don't care. More likely they don't care. But the idea here is that if you give some money to figure, you know, to fix the ballroom, then maybe you'll get your merger approved or maybe you'll get. I mean, look, we can go back to this summer when we had Cheri Redstone cancel a show that Donald Trump didn't like because she was worried she wasn't gonna be able to get her merger approved. I mean, this is already kind of the game in this Trump White House. So, you know, you have to wonder, are these people giving to the ballroom because they love America, or are they giving to it because they want regulatory approval for something or they're worried about it. They want to cut out for the tariffs? I mean, there are all sorts of reasons that corporations give money to this president that are not how any of this is supposed to work.
- [17:57]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
And to put this into context, it's going to cost $300 million from private donors. That's almost the same amount of money as the entire city of Arlington gave to the Dallas Cowboys to build their stadium. That's how much money we're talking about here. That's being given by private. Don. I think the other thing, Molly, is that will there be. Or what will be the responsibility, you think, of journalists or Congress to look after what you're talking about? Right. Will we get a full list, will we get a trustworthy list of the people who did make these donations so that we can find out if they're influencing policy down the road? Or do you think Trump might eventually hide some of this information once the thing is finally built?
- [18:36]
Molly Zhang Fass
Wait, you're saying this administration might not be transparent, but they're the most transparent administration ever? Yeah, I mean, like, look, I think as one of those comedians said, like, the. The government people have been wanting the Epstein list, right? Not the ballroom list. I don't think they're going to get either one, quite frankly. And I don't think there's a lot of transparency here. And I also think like they're just, I almost think it's worse to get the corporate money than it is if taxpayers paid for it, because at least if taxpayers paid for it, it is technically not his, the People's House. So the idea that he can do stuff like this and again, there's so, I mean, it's just I actually think, you know, we spend a lot of time talking about what breaks through. And I think these images actually do break through because it's such a clear expression of how Donald Trump views the presidency and how he views the White House. Like he doesn't own that house, the taxpayers own that house. And he, you know, it's not his to tear down. And I think ultimately it's hard to look at that and think this is a person who respects norms and institutions.
- [19:52]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
You know, I would love to be at the press conference where the White House confuses the Epstein list with the donor list and reads it out loud. I think we'll all think we'll all be in studio that day. Molly Jong Fast, thank you so much for joining us this evening on the beat.
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Congressman Adam Smith
Thank you.
- [20:06]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Later in the show, a special guest on supercharging, the anti Trump protest movement. Also ahead, using mockery to protest this administration. I'll talk to the man suing after he was detained for blasting the Darth Vader theme at National Guardsmen. Plus, MAGA voices now, outrage over Trump's unauthorized strikes as Trump sends the largest warship ever built to the Caribbean. Next on the Beat today, Donald Trump ordering a major expansion in his controversial and potentially illegal military campaign in Latin America, sending the largest aircraft carrier ever built, the USS Gerald Ford, to waters near Venezuela. Ten thousand troops are already in the region. Also today, the U.S. striking a tenth alleged drug boat. The strikes have killed 43 people. Trump saying the next step could be attacks on land.
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Congressman Adam Smith
So now they're coming in by land and even the land is concerned because I told them that's going to be next. You know, the land is going to be next. And we may go to the Senate, we may go to the, you know, Congress and tell them about it, but I can't imagine they'd have any problem with it. Well, I don't think we're going to necessarily ask for a declaration of war. I think we're just going to kill people that are bringing drugs into our country. Okay. We're going to kill them. You know, they're going to be like Dead.
- [21:35]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Legal experts say Trump is acting unlawfully. The New York Times reports, quote, the White House has made no legal argument explaining its bald claim that the president has wartime power to summarily kill people suspected of smuggling drugs. Some MAGA figures are wary. Senator Rand Paul saying this. It'll be much bigger than Epstein, because Epstein, there was a segment of the MAGA movement that was concerned about it.
- [22:02]
Congressman Adam Smith
A significant segment. There's an even bigger segment of the MAGA movement that is concerned with intervention overseas.
- [22:09]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
And if all of a sudden President Trump becomes the president of regime change in Venezuela and giving arms and money to. To Ukraine, I think a lot of people will feel abandoned. Can't randomly just blow up the enemy without identifying them and accusing them of crime. Unless you're at war. But a declare war needs to be approved by Congress. A bipartisan group of senators may force a vote next week to bar military action inside Venezuela without approval from Congress. In the House, the top Democrat on Armed Services, Adam Smith, is demanding a hearing. Joining me now is that Congressman Adam Smith of Washington State. Thank you so much for joining us this evening, Congressman. So I will start with this. There are immediate concerns by international observers and lawyers that is illegal to simply blow up boats and claim after the fact that they were somehow shipping drugs. What is the Trump administration's response to these questions? Have they attempted to justify anything? Have they shown up with any evidence one way or another, or are they continuing to just blow up ships of people with no explanation?
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Congressman Adam Smith
Yeah. To try not to use swear words. I will answer that question in modified form. Their response is basically, go to hell. I'm the president. I can do whatever I want to do. And that's what I really want people to understand. And all these stories linked together, you showed the demolition of the White House. Gosh. The tariffs, the way he's used the Justice Department, the way he's use the FCC to go after media he doesn't like. It is all part of one thing. Donald Trump wants the power to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants to do it without any transparency and any accountability. This is an authoritarian takeover of the United States government. And now we're taking it to the most extreme level possible. The president, as you just said, and you played it, he can kill who he wants to kill whenever he wants to kill them, and he doesn't have to explain it to anybody. All right? That is his position. And regardless of how you feel about Venezuela or Colombia or cocaine or fentanyl or drugs or anything, you shouldn't support the president. Of the United States saying, screw you, I'm president. I can kill who I want to kill, and you all just have to live with it. And in this particular instance, it's really important. He hasn't even really explained exactly why they're doing what they're doing, because you frequently will hear, and I see Mike Johnson saying this idiotically all the time. Well, fentanyl. Fentanyl is a huge problem. We got to go after the fentanyl. There's no fentanyl coming out of Venezuela. We don't know exactly who or what has been on these boats. But I'll tell you one thing. We know 100%, there has been no fentanyl involved in any of this. So the President's just exercising the most extreme power possible with no accountability.
- [24:50]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
I mean, this is the person who said he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue, and basically most of his supporters wouldn't say anything one way or another. Congressman, the secondary concern that I have, and I think a lot of other American citizens have, is what's the ripple effect of this, right? Like, once you start just randomly killing people from other countries and coming up with a crime to throw on them later, doesn't that destabilize our relationships with the rest of South America? Doesn't it make business more difficult? Doesn't it make negotiations more difficult? What are some of the ripple effects of this. This current insane foreign policy by the administration?
- [25:24]
Congressman Adam Smith
It does all of those things, and it tells everyone in the world that this is perfectly okay. You decide you want to kill somebody, go ahead and do it. And you don't have to justify it either. It makes us more vulnerable. And, gosh, all the troops, all the US Personnel that we have in Latin America are now at risk. And that's a huge problem. But I really want to come back to the central problem here. We are losing our constitutional republic. And meanwhile, the House of Representatives, Mike Johnson, has effectively dissolved the United States House of Representatives. I spoke with several Republicans, including Chairman Mike Rogers today to talk about, okay, we need to have hearings on this. You know, the House Armed Services need to. Needs to exercise oversight. And there are many Republicans, including Mike Rogers, who agree with that. But we're not in session, so we can't do it. So we're not going to do it. So the President just gets to do what he wants. I mean, look, the whole Nazi Germany analogies are always troubling, but, you know, that was one of the steps is the parliament or the Reichstag or whatever it was, was sort of pushed out of existence and didn't have any oversight. And when you look at that clip you showed of the President, that's what the President is saying. What are you talking about? I did it. Leave me alone.
- [26:33]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Congressman. You know, I had this question yesterday when I talked to Ken Martin, who was in charge of the DNC. We have elections next year in 2026. You have been very outspoken about what you think are some of the problems in the Democratic Party here. We see no Epstein files. We see tariffs that are damaging people. We see massive overreach in foreign policy. What do you think is the single message or the key messages that Democrats need to have to take back some power next year so that there is some oversight? What's the message that people should be hammering home right now from your party?
- [27:07]
Congressman Adam Smith
There's two parts to it. One has to be focused on what Trump is doing and how that is unacceptable. And that, too, has two parts. I'm a big two person here. One is, this is an authority and takeover of our government. All right? And look, Republicans can argue about the policies. Well, here's why drugs are important. Here's why what Trump is doing makes sense in terrorism. They can't even really, in any meaningful way argue the authoritarian aspect of this. The president is ignoring the law and turning us into a monarchy instead of a constitutional republic. If you care about democracy, you have to send a message that this must stop. Second, his policies are really hurting us. You know, look at what's happening to the farmers. Look at how the costs of housing, insurance, energy, everything's going up because of his policies. Healthcare. Millions of people are about to lose their healthcare insurance. Millions of people are losing access to the food security that they need. His policies are harming the country. And then third, as a Democrat, I think we need to say we understand you weren't thrilled with the Democratic Party. We have to change. We have to get better. We have to legitimately address immigration. We have to have secure borders. And we didn't do as good a job on that as we should have. Focusing on identity politics constantly is not what the American people want. All right, we get that. We're going to fix that. We're going to run our cities better, which, by the way, we're starting to do. Do you look at some of the things that are happening in San Francisco and other places where we're getting after, you know, crime and homelessness and drug abuse and actually governing better? We have to understand that all, whatever, 80 million, I think, is the number that voted for Trump something like that they're not all racist, bigoted morons. They're not. And we need to stop treating them like that and say, okay, you've got concerns. We're going to address them. We're not going to get them all. We don't need to get them all. But we need to reach out to people that broadens our coalition. We can't keep preaching to the choir. Look, I represent a 70% Democratic district. You know, whether I'm here or not, a Democrat's gonna represent this district. And that's great. But what are we gonna do to reach the people in those places that we aren't winning? Which is why Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spanberger are so important. And what's going to happen in a week and a half? They're running the type of campaigns that's gonna broaden the support that Democrats have so that we can begin. So I think we have to do both of those things.
- [29:26]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
I will say this. When people feel that their identities are under threat by the administration, identity politics is kind of important. Congressman Adam Smith, thank you so much for joining us this evening on the Beat. Still ahead, the only tenured hip hop professor in the US Is here on Gassing up the no Kings movement to the next level. But first, I'll talk to a special guest who was detained for exercising his right to protest with Star wars music. More on that when we're back on the Beat. Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio.
- [30:02]
Dr. A.D. Carson
Andy live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about.
- [30:05]
Congressman Adam Smith
My latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments.
- [30:08]
Dr. A.D. Carson
With that kind of drama that seems.
- [30:10]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
To follow me, you never know what's going to happen.
- [30:12]
Molly Zhang Fass
You can listen to Jeff Lewis live at home or anywhere you are. Download the SiriusXM app for over 425 channels of AD, free music, sports, entertainment and more. Subscribe now and get 3 months free offer details Apply.
- [30:30]
Indeed/Advertisement Voice
Hiring isn't just about finding someone willing to take the job. Count on Indeed sponsored jobs to find the right person with the right background who can move the business forward. Stop struggling to get your job post even seen on other sites. Give your job the best chance to be seen with INDEED sponsored jobs. They boost your post for quality candidates so you can reach the exact people you want faster and it makes a big difference. According to INDEED data, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed are 90% more likely to report a hire than non sponsored jobs. Plus with Indeed sponsored jobs, you only pay for results. No monthly subscription, no long term contracts, just a boost whenever you need to find quality talent Fast. Join the 1.6 million companies that sponsor their jobs with Indeed. Get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast.
- [31:23]
McCormick/Advertisement Voice
Ever felt defeated by cravings? You're not alone. Henry Meds is here to help support your weight management journey.
- [31:29]
Congressman Adam Smith
Since I joined four months ago, I've.
- [31:31]
Molly Zhang Fass
Lost £25 and it has changed my life.
- [31:35]
McCormick/Advertisement Voice
Henry meds personalized compounded GLP1 meds shipped to your door. Take back control with treatments designed to reduce appetite. Schedule a free online evaluation. A licensed provider@henry meds.com audio and get $100 off your first month. Results may vary. Not all patients are eligible. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Consult a healthcare provider to determine if treatment is right for you.
- [31:58]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Donald Trump is ramping up his attack on free speech with his agents targeting people for exercising their First Amendment rights. One story going viral involves a man who says the FBI showed up at his door because he attended an anti ICE protest in Arizona. We came out here to ask two questions regarding a protest that happened on the 11th of June. We've been just basically going around asking questions for a few people that were brought up in your name and brought up. So. Okay, see if you had a couple minutes to answer some questions regarding the protests happened. Yeah. Who are you with? I'm with the FBI, James. Another peaceful protester was arrested in Portland after mocking ICE while wearing a giraffe suit.
- [32:44]
Ankush Kardori
Yeah, why don't you come out with.
- [32:45]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Your Super Soaker, huh? Oh, here they come.
- [32:49]
Ankush Kardori
They're not ready for prime time Players demolition.
- [32:58]
Molly Zhang Fass
What do you do? He's talking. He's just talking.
- [33:05]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
We've seen a surge in humor being used in these protests. People dressing up as frogs and chickens and. And other costumes to protest Trump's policies. The novelist Gary Schneider, writing about this in the New York Times, saying, quote, this humorous form of protest shows the absurdity of the charge that all the protesters are armed militants. It's hard to call an inflatable chicken dangerous. The use of satire as a tool of protest includes a man who has gone viral for playing the Imperial Death March from Star wars in front of Trump's National Guard troops in Washington, D.C.
- [33:53]
Congressman Adam Smith
Contact Metro PD and they can come.
- [33:55]
Ankush Kardori
That's what you want to do.
- [34:01]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
The police did come and detain him. That member of the Rebel alliance is now striking back with a new lawsuit. Joining me now to discuss is Sam o', Hara, the plaintiff who staged those Star wars protests and ACLU er Michael Perloff who helped him file the suit. So, first off, Sam, I want to thank you as both a D.C. resident and a Star wars fan for what you've done. I have followed you on social media. I was very, very impressed.
- [34:27]
Dr. A.D. Carson
I just.
- [34:27]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
I want you to take us to that day. And. And how did it feel? I mean, you're playing music, and essentially they come up to you and say you're a member of the Rebel alliance and a traitor. Goodbye. And they take you away. How did that feel? Were you afraid? Did you feel comfortable because other people were around? What was that moment like?
- [34:44]
Sam O'Hara
Yeah, thank you for having me. And you nailed it. I mean, that's. That's kind of how it felt. It felt like they were upset with what I was doing as a form of protest. They threatened to call the mpd, and then the MPD did what they shouldn't have done, which is they stopped me, they handcuffed me. It felt surreal, dystopian.
- [35:05]
Dr. A.D. Carson
Bad.
- [35:06]
Sam O'Hara
It just felt real bad that this is where we are right now.
- [35:11]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
And, you know, Michael, I want to play you some sound from Sam's video and get your thoughts on the other side, both legally and sort of politically, what we're dealing with here in D.C.
- [35:22]
Sam O'Hara
I'M practicing my right to protest on.
- [35:24]
Congressman Adam Smith
A sidewalk, not a protest. You better define protests.
- [35:27]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
He's thinking of protest.
- [35:28]
Congressman Adam Smith
Do you want to define protests?
- [35:29]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Yes.
- [35:30]
Congressman Adam Smith
Define protest.
- [35:31]
Ankush Kardori
Define protest.
- [35:32]
Congressman Adam Smith
Define protest, yes.
- [35:36]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Michael, help me out here. I think people are allowed. I've been to plenty of comic conventions. I think you can walk around the street and play whatever music you want. Sam did have the legal right to protest, Right? These officers are wrong.
- [35:50]
Michael Perloff
Yeah. You know, some cases are hard. This one is easy. This is a straight up First Amendment violation. And it's an important one to talk about because we're living in a moment where government officials are saying, if you agree with us, the statements you make are funny. They're jokes. Lighten up. But if you don't agree with us, you might end up in handcuffs. That's not a decision the government gets to make. It doesn't get to decide what's funny, what's satire, what's protests. Those decisions are ours, and this case is about keeping it that way.
- [36:21]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Sam, going in and around Washington, D.C. and I've noticed this all the time. You see these National Guard troops. They're outside of Union Station. They're hovering here at Union Market. They're in different kinds of places. For the American people who haven't had this kind of invasion of their city, what does that feel like, as a resident, what does it feel like to wake up every day and walk around and see armed guards with guns standing in front of Starbucks? What does that do to the people in the city?
- [36:47]
Sam O'Hara
Sure, and you nailed it. I mean, it's not just Union Station. It's. They're at our farmer's markets, our dog parks where I get my morning coffee. I think the thought is that we're meant to feel safe and. And I feel the opposite. I feel anxious. I feel like I'm living in this made up war zone. And it's not that D.C. is a wonderful place to live. I've lived here for 10 years. It's a fantastic place to live. I love my neighbors. I love the city. So to see it being kind of portrayed this way, it's unreal.
- [37:23]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
And, Michael, what is your hope? So you're suing because obviously your client was unfairly arrested.
- [37:30]
Indeed/Advertisement Voice
But.
- [37:30]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
But what is your goal? Are you hoping that, you know, fine, they'll give a formal apology, that they'll expunge this sort of petty arrest? And what would you encourage other people to do if they're arrested for doing similar levels of protests in D.C. or any other city?
- [37:44]
Michael Perloff
Well, our goal is to make sure that this doesn't become andor you know, our goal is to make sure that in the United States of America, people know that they can protest, know that they can call out absurd behavior when they see it and give the government a piece of their mind when they want to. The First Amendment gives you the right to do all of that. And as long as you aren't interfering with government officials, you can record them, you can talk to them, you can criticize them. That's how this whole country got started. And so we hope this case is a reminder to the government that it has obligations and a reminder to the public that it has fundamental constitutional rights.
- [38:23]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Michael, I want to thank you for the work you're doing and for your excellent andor reference. We certainly don't want D.C. to become the people of Gore. Thank you so much for the work that you are doing and for joining us tonight.
- [38:32]
Molly Zhang Fass
Night.
- [38:32]
Sam O'Hara
Thank you for having us.
- [38:33]
Dr. A.D. Carson
Thank you.
- [38:35]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Up next, I have a special guest here to discuss protest music in this moment of Trumpism. When we're back on the beat, millions of Americans are standing up to Trump. But are top musicians meeting this moment in politics? In the past, Bob Dylan took aim at the powerful and the unjust. Sam Cooke's Change Is Gonna Come became an anthem for the civil rights movement. And public enemies fight the power became an anthem for a new generation. In more recent years, artists like Beyonce, Kendrick Lamar, and Lil Baby have inspired many Americans. We gonna be all right do you hear me?
- [39:29]
Congressman Adam Smith
Do you feel me?
- [39:30]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
We gonna be all right.
- [39:31]
Dr. A.D. Carson
It's bigger than black and white. It's a problem with the whole way of life. It can't change overnight. But we gotta start somewhere. Might as well go ahead and start here. We didn't have a hell of a year.
- [39:41]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
I'm gonna make it count why I'm here. There seems to be, like a void in this new Trump era, but, you know, some artists are speaking out. Country singer Zach Bryan and rock icon Neil Young have released music taking on Trump, Trump and his agenda.
- [40:00]
Molly Zhang Fass
And I was gonna come bust down your door Try to build a house.
- [40:05]
Dr. A.D. Carson
On bills no more But I got.
- [40:07]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
A telephone Kids are all scared and all alone Big crime in DC at the White House. There's big crime in DC at the White House. Zach Bryan faced fierce backlash from the right, showing the risks that artists take when trying to speak out in Trump's America. Joining me now to discuss is Dr. A.D. carson, the only tenured professor of hip hop in the United States of America. He is at the University of Virginia, my alma mater. His work is currently being considered for a Grammy. Nominations are announced next month. Dr. Carson, I'm so excited. Thank you so much for joining us this evening on the Beat. I'll start with this. Where do you think hip hop is right now in meeting this moment for Trump, we had Nipsey saying blank, Donald Trump years ago. But in many cases, some of the most prominent rappers, 50 Cent, Snoop Dogg, have more or less capitulated to this administration. Where do you think hip hop is right now when it comes to protest music in our current political moment?
- [41:13]
Dr. A.D. Carson
Peace.
- [41:13]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Peace.
- [41:13]
Dr. A.D. Carson
Thank you so much for having me here. I think that hip hop is meeting the moment. Moment. You know, Gil Scott Heron said the revolution won't be televised. And, and I imagine that the revolution will also not be featured on a rap caviar playlist or featured by Apple Music or any of the major streaming platforms. So I think that it's probably us to listen up to what is going on. So, for instance, you hear Vic Mensa putting out videos regularly. He had a. An opinion article in the New York Times not long ago, just a couple weeks ago. No Name's most recent album, I think Critique of the Time right now. Saba and no ID put out an album this summer. Chance the rappers Starline, I think, is doing some of the incredible work that folks probably can meet where it is. Jid has a new album out. I think that there are three different versions of that album. Love the genius has self love 3. You've got Mona Leos who did the Body. You've got Mobb Deeps Infinite. You've got Dave East's Karma 4, which has Nipsey Hussle on it. You've got even more underground artists like Marcel P. Black, who more recently did another blank Donald Trump song. So there's plenty, plenty that's being put out there. It's a matter of us being an audience to it.
- [42:33]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
So, A.D. Dr. Carson, this is. It's a very interesting point you're making because in the 90s, right, Chuck D and Public Enemy will say, the radios won't play my stuff. We're in an environment now where algorithms are being rigged. We're in an environment where you, as a professor, were on a Turning Point watch list. We're in an era where people who make jokes about the administration get pulled off the air. Do you think that some of this protest music, especially in hip hop, do you think it's being suppressed? Do you think that streamers might be trying to push people away from this kind of music in the face of an authoritarian regime?
- [43:05]
Dr. A.D. Carson
Well, the thing is, it might be. It might be. But I believe since we've been here on this continent, folks have always found a way around the kinds of suppression that exists. I mean, I imagine the reason that they put me on that Turning Point list is because they know the. The power and the promise of hip hop to be able to speak truth to power while they're committed to lying to folks. So, I don't know. I mean, and with regard to that, of course, I spend way more time worried about the people who love me than I do the people who hate me. And so, you know, I ain't worried about my safety so much as, you know, like, you stay ready so you don't have to get ready. I imagine that we can and we have have made the kind of music Meet the moment. And so that has a lot to do with our. With the way we use music much more than any particular music that gets made. And so with all of these artists that I'm listing, you will be able to find these ways that folks are not maybe mentioning a particular governmental office or not mentioning a particular political race, but they are mentioning the particular circumstances, like what's going on in a place like Chicago or a place like Buffalo, or in my own case, places like Charlottesville or Decatur. Illinois, my hometown. So it's. I mean, yeah, that suppression is probably there, but I don't think that hip hop artists, or black folks more generally have ever really, ever really had the luxury to do anything to get out from around that suppression, except for subvert. So that's what we do.
- [44:48]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Very quickly, you are at the University of Virginia, which is one of the few universities to sort of sign what amounts to a consent decree with the Department of Justice basically saying they will turn over information to this administration for the next several years in order to avoid fines from the doj. Just from a faculty perspective, how is the campus responding to that decision by the part of the University of Virginia?
- [45:13]
Dr. A.D. Carson
Well, unfortunately, there are lots of students who feel they don't feel as empowered as they should to, to speak out and make the kinds of differences that they can, the kind of difference that they can. And so a lot of it is just, I feel like folks are overwhelmed by the amount of stuff. It's like, you know, like trying to drink from a fire hose.
- [45:36]
Molly Zhang Fass
But.
- [45:36]
Dr. A.D. Carson
But like, among faculty and folks that I'm in community with, you know, like, I imagine that some folks could call it, you know, like, I mean, you know, you could say, you know, your head is bloody, but unbowed, you know, you keep going. We keep making progress toward the things that we know are righteous. And we know that the cause of education, especially free expression and academic freedom, is a righteous cause.
- [46:05]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Professor A.D. carson, I could talk to you all evening. Thank you so much for joining us this evening. On the Beat Peace.
- [46:10]
Dr. A.D. Carson
Thank you so much. I appreciate you.
- [46:13]
Host of The Beat (possibly a journalist or anchor)
Thank you so much. We will be right back on the Beat.
- [46:19]
Stephen Dubner
Are you curious about the hidden side of everything? Then I have a podcast for you. I'm Stephen Dubner, host of Freakonomics Radio. Each week we hear from some of the most fascinating scholars and thinkers as we tackle big topics like how whales became the face of environmental activism, how to succeed at failing, and whether public transportation should be free. Go ahead, listen to Freakonomics Radio wherever you get your podcasts.