← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Trump Approval Crashes Amid Econ & Intel Stumbles
00:40:51
President Trump formally nominates his former personal lawyer, Todd Blanche, to serve as attorney general. Plus, new lies from Trump about the war in Iran. MS NOW's Ari Melber reports on the latest developments and is joined by Howard Dean, former Vermont governor and former DNC chair.
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- [00:00]
Howard Dean
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- [00:20]
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- [00:50]
Ari Melber
Welcome to the Beat. I'm Ari Melbert. We have a lot to start the week. There is some big news. We have really interesting guests. We begin, though, with something very straightforward that goes to the heart, the core of being president and commander in chief. Chief, are you able to keep the country safe? Can you tell the truth about matters of state, of war and peace? It's a big thing, right? And Donald Trump basically caught lying about what is now his unending war and dealings with Iran.
- [01:21]
Donald Trump
First of all, I didn't guarantee no war under Trump. We will have no more wars, no more disruptions, and we will have prosperity and peace for all. No more wars, no more disruptions. We will have prosperity. Prosperity. And we will have peace. With our victory in November, the years of war, weakness and chaos will be over. I don't have wars. We had no wars. I could stop wars with a telephone call. I could stop wars with just a telephone call. If properly stated, it would never start. They said he will start a war. I'm not going to start a war. I'm going to stop wars.
- [02:03]
Ari Melber
And on and on it went. Indeed. If you're watching that and thinking you didn't believe him at the time, fine, you were right. But there's evidence that a lot of other people did believe him. They're angry about it now. If he could stop this war with a phone call, well, we're way past phone calls. Donald Trump and his team have traveled, they have cajoled. They've held hours on hours of meetings and negotiations and diplomacy and he can't stop this war. We are in a worse place energy wise than when it started. That's why everyone's paying higher gas prices. This has become a stalemate and some view it as a potential quagmire. Trump failing to secure a deal. The war has gone on longer than he said it would. One Iranian official now saying a deal with Trump is no longer even feasible. At this stage, that would sound like even any deal. Trump claiming the opposite.
- [02:51]
Donald Trump
So we're having very good negotiations with the people that are leading the country now. I think that we'll either have something done fairly quickly or we'll finish it out. Militarily, we're very close to having a deal, and if we don't have a deal, we'll do it one way or the other. Either way, we win.
- [03:08]
Ari Melber
Talking about winning without winning is like talking about avoiding wars and not avoiding them. And unlike certain issues where people say, oh, Trump's getting away with it, or people don't know the whole story, people understand in the United States that they're paying more for gas because of Trump, that the war is open and ongoing. They've heard about the strait being compromised. People know what's going on. Our top story tonight is basically two things. It's this problem with the war, which is a very real world thing, and it's the related collapse of Donald Trump here in the second term. We've been following that story across different topics, and we've seen rising Republican pushback against him. We've seen special elections and primaries that show a revolt. We've seen top Republicans and Trump allies and see Bannon say they're not just gonna lose the House, they could lose the Senate. Now, nobody knows what's going to happen. That depends on how you and everyone votes. But we're seeing something larger here. So that's the top story. It is the problem in Iran and the wider Trump problem as the public knows that when Trump talks about winning, he is wrong and lying. Fuel prices up, hostilities up with Iran and Israel, people paying more at the pump. National average is above $4 a gallon. And we are way past a period of time where Trump promised the war would actually be over. But the gas problem might hit you more or less, depending on where you live. If you are in a place where you don't travel a lot for work or daily life, or you're in a city where you might take public transit, it hits you a little bit, versus if you're in a place where you're driving all the time and you're picking up the kids and you're going back to camp and you're going back to picking up from sporting events, and all of that gas is changing your budget. That's what a lot of people are going through. But that's again, just one piece. If this ended quickly, it might end there. But as I've just reminded you, it's not. And so it's dragged a wider economy. It's affecting inflation and the Fed and other issues going against what Trump wanted. Remember, he had hoped to juice the economy and get help from the Fed going into the midterms. That's not happening. Trump's approval crashing. He's Underwater by about 26 points in this poll. That makes him the most unpopular president since that survey started. And he has the earliest crash of any second term president in the modern era. I'm joined by Howard Dean, former Vermont governor, DNC chair, doctor, anti war figure all the way back to the Iraq Mideast situation. So you have more than one credential tonight. Welcome.
- [05:44]
Howard Dean
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
- [05:46]
Ari Melber
I'm curious how you see it. I'm reporting it as these two stories because the war and the gas is a very real world thing. But it's not the first thing that's hurt and hobbled the Trump second term. It seems to be kind of contaminating. What were these other weaknesses? And one more data point for you and then you can walk us through it. Reuters noting how when you look at the Republicans in Congress, they have rebuked the war in Iran, they've rejected a billion in funding related to the Vanity Ballroom project. They forced now a fairly quick retreat on that criminal fund. Although Trump's gone both sides of it, the DOJ submitted court papers saying it's over. It's more pushback than before. But your view's on all of the above.
- [06:28]
Howard Dean
Well, so let's start with his big problem, which is not an unusual problem, although his degree of it is record breaking and that is second term. Itis. He's done a lousy job managing the economy. Things aren't going well. He got us into a war and just things aren't going well. And he got elected principally because people felt that things weren't going well under the Democrats. We can debate whether that's fair, whether that's true. But when you get hired to fix things and things go south, that hurts. There are a couple of factors that support Trump. One is the MAGA factor. They're going to be there forever, just like the people who, you know, went to Hitler's bunker and thought he was still a great guy on the day of his suicide. That's going to get to be a smaller number.
- [07:13]
Ari Melber
Some differences in what they're Supporting, but go ahead.
- [07:17]
Howard Dean
I'm not so much different, so clear how different it is than what they're supporting. Fascism is fascism, and Trump is basically believing fascism.
- [07:25]
Ari Melber
We could, we could have the larger debate sometime, Howard, but there's differences.
- [07:30]
Howard Dean
Yes, there's a big difference in the outcome. Although he does talk about getting rid of immigrants and so forth and so on. But in any case, his big problem is the people who voted for him because they were mad at the Democrats or because they weren't doing well academically, economically. I think the Democrats still have a ways to go. We are still an inside the Beltway Party. We need to be an outside the Beltway Party. I'm very heartened by these young people that are running, even those running against incumbents, some of whom I like. But the public wants a change, and Trump is clearly not going to be the change agent. Now, the big question is, can we change? And the economic problem is the big one. We have to get to people where they're at, not where we think you should be at. From inside the Beltway, we've got some really good candidates. I think, you know, Talarico in Texas, I think, has a really good shot at becoming the next senator, especially since he's gonna run against a guy who's, I think, has criminal convictions, if I'm not mistaken, or certainly had an impeachment effort against him.
- [08:36]
Ari Melber
Yeah, Paxton had impeachment and he had a whole, whole bunch of scandals in Texas.
- [08:40]
Howard Dean
I think the guy in Platner has got a shot in Maine. Collins is a very good campaigner, but she always votes with Trump whenever he's needed. And I think people are fed up with that. I think we got a great shot in Iowa. A veteran who's running against a weak candidate who's been involved in, I think, some corruption. So we've got some shots in unusual places. Sherrod Brown, of course, has a shot. And I think Vivek Vamaswamy is going to be a very unpopular candidate for governor because he's full of himself. And I think Ohioans are full of Republican as they are. Republicans don't like people that are full of themselves any more than anybody else does. And that's a big problem. I mean, Trump, I, I, I, off the top of my head, I can't think of a single senior person in the Trump White House that I think is competent.
- [09:29]
Ari Melber
Yeah, I mean, when you, when you talk about those Democrats and what do you think it's important for them to hit? Because, I mean, Talarico, as you Mentioned he's got a bit of a different message. There was a lot of attention on Texas, but. But you're saying, make sure you hit what people are going through. Not just.
- [09:44]
Howard Dean
Here's what I'm saying. This is not an ad for Andy Beshear and I haven't endorsed him, but I like him a lot. And the reason is he comes from about a plus 20 Trump state. And when his right wing crackpot legislature does anti trans or anti gay or book burning and all that stuff, he vetoes it. He gets upheld. And he said instead of arguing about these issues that we lose on, he says, wait a minute, what have you guys done about my public school reform? Nothing. What have you done about my jobs program? We need jobs in Kentucky. You've done nothing. That is the way to win. Do not get bogged down in the inside the beltway drama that nobody else cares about. Do get bogged down in the stuff that, that we, that we have to win. We have to win on jobs, we have to win on the economy, we have to win on honesty in government. And that's what we should return to and only that.
- [10:40]
Ari Melber
And on the Mideast, I mean, one thing we noticed, you talk about Beltway the news, sometimes we're in these, these little gradations, big picture. Most of the Democrats have been very strong against Trump's Iran stumble. But in the first few days, there was a mixed message, as there was with Venezuela. And you know, in D.C. there's a lot of sort of, well, national security, this and that. Well, as you said many years ago, and as Trump used to say, starting wars doesn't help national security if they're the wrong war. That sort of faux toughness. Now he's fallen back into being the thing he ran against, which he is on many issues. So I'm curious what you think about where Democrats are now on a war that is as unpopular at its beginning as the Iraq war was near its end.
- [11:24]
Howard Dean
I think we're getting there. The problem is that a lot of the people in Washington have been, not all of them, but a lot of them have been there for a very long time. And they play the inside the Beltway game. I always say that Washington is basically middle school on steroids. They work hard, they're very smart, and it's all about them all the time. And they're clueless. They're honestly, a lot of them. Some of them are not. I mean, it's not like I paint them all with the same brush, but when they go home, they, they're thinking about the Washington game. The Washington game is irrelevant to 98% of the American people. That's why Trump won. He didn't win because the, because American voters are idiots. He won because people were tired of the BS in Washington and they just. And Trump promised to break it up, and they believed him. That was the mistake. But we, you know, we've still got to get with the program in the Democratic Party. And I'm not so sure the inside, you know, I fought the inside the Beltway people, including when I was four years inside the. The Beltway as running the Democratic National Committee. And we won the House, we won the Senate, and we won the president after having none of them when I started. I'm not taking all the credit for that at all. But you have to have discipline and listen to the voters, not your own special people. One of the things I love about Ken Martin is he may have done this and he may have done that, but one of the first things he did when he got to be the head of the DNC was fire all the Washington consultants. That is essential because. And this doesn't mean you're a bad person. But the, the first thing you care about is making sure your kids can go to all the great schools in Washington. And you do that by paying big, getting paid big fees. And people think you're smart because you were involved in a campaign that was three and four generations ago. This is ridiculous. So we've got, we can't. They're talking about.
- [13:10]
Ari Melber
Also, this is the populist difference that we've seen the Internet, actually, in your days, all the way back to Democracy for America. And now, of course, some of the tools have shifted. But the Internet's been a place where you see more people pop up and say, yeah, they're against the elites in both parties and anyone who's kind of dining out on real America in New York or D.C. especially, living bubbled lives. You know, it's interesting because we followed your career for a while, and I'll give you the last word, I'm running over on time. But when you were chair, I think it's fair to observe, you were a heck of a lot more popular among Democrats and liberals out around the country than you were inside the Beltway. And that seemed like, to some people, a good thing. I'm over on time. You get the last word.
- [13:51]
Howard Dean
I'm just saying, look, I don't think that Democrats are bad people. In fact, I think they're much smarter than the Republicans because you don't see a lot of the Democrats kissing, you know what, as the Republicans all seem to be doing. But they gotta take themselves out of Washington and they've got to start talking to the people in their constituents, not just the safe, quote, unquote, blue states. We got to win in some red states and we can do that, but we got to listen to the voters.
- [14:16]
Ari Melber
Yeah. Howard Dean, good to have you, sir.
- [14:19]
Howard Dean
Thank you.
- [14:20]
Ari Melber
Appreciate it. Coming up, we've been hearing about CBS vet Scott Pelley. He was quoted in articles after being ousted by the new MAGA friendly ownership of cbs. He's now speaking out further. You're gonna see it all. Torching management.
- [14:34]
Scott Pelley
There was a thumb on the scale for the president's version of events. Two of the things in the email include can we make the protesters look more violent?
- [14:50]
Ari Melber
Rarely do you get that inside view how it's working from the very top. I mean, there was nobody above him in the 60 Minutes newsroom and he was clashing with that MAGA management. We're going to show you that tonight. The Tony Awards also featured artists speaking up. But first, we are going to get into it. Trump melting down when he couldn't handle questions about election loss.
- [15:13]
Media Analyst/Commentator
Do you have evidence to support?
- [15:15]
Donald Trump
All I have to do is look. All I have to do is look.
- [15:17]
Media Analyst/Commentator
That's not evidence.
- [15:18]
Donald Trump
And I listen and I listen to people and let's see what happens.
- [15:21]
Media Analyst/Commentator
But sir, that's not evidence. You traveled all the way to Wisconsin for this interview,
- [15:28]
Ari Melber
like when you cannot handle the questions. And Andrew Weissman is here on the Big news about the official plan for who's going to lead the DOJ if they can get through setting confirmation. We're back in 90 seconds.
- [15:44]
Howard Dean
I'm Cyndi Lauper with fellow Cosentyx advocate chef Michelle Bernstein. We'll share our experiences with plaque psoriasis with psoriatic arthritis. And Dr. Panico will talk about the possible connection.
- [15:58]
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- [16:43]
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- [16:58]
Howard Dean
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- [17:21]
Donald Trump
Let's Chumble.
- [17:23]
Ari Melber
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- [17:24]
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- [17:27]
Ari Melber
sponsored by Chumba Casino Turning to the DOJ Tonight, President Trump formally nominating Todd Blanche to be attorney. He has been in that role in an acting capacity. GOP Senator Grassley has confirmed that the Senate has now formally received that nomination. We live in an era where the President saying something doesn't always mean it's really happening. So this is the formal, actual enactment of what Trump had previously suggested, which is he wants Blanche to be ag. There's been an audition process. Blanche has clearly made Donald Trump happy by doing things that no other Attorney General have ever done, including rolling out this over billion dollar criminal fund which currently paused in the courts. And the DOJ later said they're rolling it back. But Trump continues to talk about how he likes it. His doj, I'll remind you, put in writing that the embattled fund paused in court, was now dead.
- [18:24]
Donald Trump
I think the weaponization fund is a great idea and so do many other Republicans. You have to get it approved. If they get it approved, that's great. If they don't get it approved, I'd be disappointed.
- [18:38]
Ari Melber
What you'll notice there is a President who is still decent at PR and doesn't want to act like he's completely out of the loop and then be embarrassed by the courts, potentially showing him and the DOJ to be powerless to do something like that. So he quite directly references that they may not be able to do it. They don't have the power. And then, as we mentioned, he did this infamous walkout from the venerable Show Meet the Press again if you want to kind of clean your eyes and say, do presidents normally do this? No, they don't. And it came not at a random time, but in apparently direct response to him not being able to handle straightforward questions about how he can't back up election lives.
- [19:20]
Donald Trump
The election was rigged. It was a dirty election and it's happening again right now in California.
- [19:26]
Media Analyst/Commentator
They presented evidence.
- [19:27]
Donald Trump
I won an election and a landslide And I got 94% bad press.
- [19:32]
Media Analyst/Commentator
But Mr. President, you know why I got presented?
- [19:34]
Donald Trump
Because you have no credibility.
- [19:36]
Media Analyst/Commentator
But you've never presented evidence that it was rigged.
- [19:38]
Donald Trump
Let's call it quits because I've had enough. Thank you darling. Have a good time. Mr.
- [19:41]
Media Analyst/Commentator
Traveled all the way to Wisconsin for this interview.
- [19:48]
Ari Melber
He'd had enough. He'd had enough. As you can see there now, that is what real journalism looks like. And let's be clear, it's not always just the easiest thing to sit face to face with any president, let alone one who tends to interrupt in hector and has threatened all kinds of opponents, including journalists. And that journalist, our former colleague Ms. Welker, stood her ground, asked the questions. She wasn't pushing him in any biased way, she just kept at it. And what happens when you do that with Donald Trump? I mean this is a real moment. Cuz it shows something that's so different from all of the bubbled special scenarios he likes to be in when somebody actually sits with him him, cameras rolling and continue suppress him to just try to substantiate some of these lies. It's not only that he can't substantiate them, which is a useful public service for people to see. But in this case he actually just has to bail. He can't handle the questions, can't handle the truth as it were. Meanwhile, the DoJ has still opened election fraud investigations in blue California where they are looking at what they claim to be vulnerabilities. Trump had criticized their ballot system. A lot of that opens the door for to whether they are going to try to use these as a pretext to abuse power. There's a report that the DOJ is also trying to dismantle safeguards going into the midterms, deleting a guide about prosecuting election offenses and other details. They haven't taken the steps to establish the command centers that are usually there to try to monitor emergencies on a nonpartisan basis either. Three sources told notice. The New York Times reports the FBI director has this so called grand conspiracy probe that's trying to bring together basically different old complaints and turned them into criminal cases. It set off now cascading crisis within U.S. attorney's office. It's derailed careers and undercut DOJ credibility with judges. DOJ vets say it was a Frankenstein monster with an assortment of these long dead investigations that were supposed to be stitched together and brought back to life. FBI leadership demanding daily updates or near daily updates on the case, which is usually only reserved for national crises. The Times reporting on, of course, a situation where for all of that effort and pressure, they haven't exactly delivered many winning cases. Now we have someone who actually knows how to put a case together. Andrew Weitzman, DOJ VET on all of this Next.
- [22:15]
Donald Trump
The election was rigged. It was a dirty election and it's happening again right now in California. I won an election in a landslide And I got 94% bad press. But Mr. President, you know why I got that? Because you have no credibility.
- [22:30]
Media Analyst/Commentator
But you've never presented evidence that it was written.
- [22:32]
Donald Trump
Let's call it quits because I've had enough. Thank you, darling.
- [22:35]
Howard Dean
Have a good time.
- [22:35]
Media Analyst/Commentator
We traveled all the way to Wisconsin for this interview.
- [22:45]
Ari Melber
DOJ vet Andrew Weissman is here. Your thoughts on what happened there?
- [22:51]
Andrew Weissman
Well, Donald Trump has continued to tell a sort of foundational lie to his campaign, which is that there was material fraud in the 2020 election that he lost. But he has never presented, as Kristen Welker said, he has never presented evidence of that. And he's now doing the same thing with respect to California. And again, there's no evidence of it. And so I think it's really a continuation of something that we have seen for years and we see it in lots of smaller ways, most recently with in connection with the slush fund, where there's the rebranding of criminals as victims, even though they had all of the due process and process and, you know, lawyers and juries and appellate processes and they were found guilty and now they're being rebranded as victims. And the lawsuit for $10 billion is now being viewed as and branded as some real lawsuit, when in fact, in my view it is nothing more than Donald Trump saying, I'm taking $1.776 billion from the fisc and I'm going to use it in the way that I want.
- [24:15]
Ari Melber
Another moment with Kristen Welker's really journalistic exchange was to press Donald Trump on what they've already done. They've favored and helped and freed people who attacked police. That's already a huge problem. Now, the DOJ in this fund that Trump says he still likes was open. They would not rule out paying those people. Here's that exchange.
- [24:39]
Media Analyst/Commentator
Do you think anyone who attacked police officers on January 6 should get taxpayer money?
- [24:45]
Donald Trump
I wouldn't be inclined to say so, but I have to see it.
- [24:48]
Media Analyst/Commentator
172 people did plead guilty to assaulting police officers.
- [24:51]
Donald Trump
You know why they pled guilty? Because they told they were going to jail for 15 years if they did. They sent people to jail who did nothing wrong.
- [25:00]
Media Analyst/Commentator
Just, just to be very clear, there's no evidence of what you're saying, Andrew.
- [25:06]
Andrew Weissman
So we all saw the evidence. I mean, what's so shocking here is that we saw the evidence, judges saw the evidence, jurors saw the evidence, appellate court saw the evidence, and Donald Trump offers no contrary evidence. So, again, this is what's so shocking, is that there's such a huge part of the populace that is not calling him out for this. And it really speaks to and I think in some ways, sort of the media environment that we're in where people are not confronted with the truth and the hard facts of what happened. And so they can live in a, in a bubble which, you know, in prior generations, there wasn't that same problem where you could say false information, it can be combated with truthful information. But here, because you can stick to just information that you want to hear, you are not confronted with reality. And so the president can get away with this.
- [26:17]
Ari Melber
Can I draw you out on Good lawyers do this. Good prosecutors do this. Bob Mueller, who passed, did this. You take the evidence and you make the evidence strong. The evidence is what speaks. Good lawyers don't necessarily hector witnesses the way we see sometimes on the TV shows, but they keep pressing evidence to the point that it almost to even a person who wants to lie, it starts to just feel like too much. And I felt like that happened in that moment. And given your history and you handled the Enron case and other cases where the evidence did the talking. I just want put to push away brilliant, thoughtful Professor Weissman, and I want to summon prosecutor trial lawyer Weissman and tell us about I don't want to put a thumb on the scale, whatever you thought of how Welker, who is a former colleague, but we're now independent companies, she's a peer like anyone else. How she did that and what you think happened with the evidence eventually, you know, shaking Donald Trump to the point that he couldn't say anything, this great orator in his mind had to walk out.
- [27:30]
Andrew Weissman
Well, as you know, it is a very different thing to be questioning Somebody on air as opposed to having somebody. Well, in many ways it's harder. The person's not under oath. They're not controlled by a judge. You don't have the same amount of time that you have. But I think a good example of what you're saying and terms of things being evidence based was people may recall that in the first Paul Manafort federal trial, one of the jurors was a MAGA Republican and she voted to convict. And she was the only juror who spoke after the verdict, and she voted guilty. And she also made a comment saying that the president would be wrong to pardon Paul Manafort. And she said she left her MAGA hat in her car. And that is because she took an oath as a juror. She listened to the evidence and she let the evidence govern. And that people can act out of principle. And what I find, especially as a, when I was a prosecutor, the stronger your case, the less you need to sort of bang the table or do anything other than just present it as clearly as possible to a jury and trust them. And it is notable that the president to this day, in spite of his having said, remember, he said one point, I'm going to present indisputable evidence of fraud. Well, we're still waiting. He canceled the press conference where that was going to happen. He said that his lawyers thought better of it because he had a pending case. Well, he's president now and he could present that evidence, but he is living in a fact free zone where he is not being called out for it. And it's useful to have journalists continue to press him and not to normalize those statements.
- [29:36]
Ari Melber
Well, if we're waiting on that evidence, we might be waiting for Godot. Andrew, perfect. Means a lot coming from you because I started with Catch me outside, a Dr. Phil reference that Alicia told me I was too old to land on someone young like her. And Godot is an older one. So it works for you, our sophisticated counselor. Thank you, sir.
- [30:01]
Andrew Weissman
Yes, thank you.
- [30:03]
Ari Melber
Good to see you, Andrew. A lot of important points there. Speaking of theater, this is really a Broadway transition. We had the greatest Tony Awards and many of the Broadway stars used the platform in the moment to do something that so many CEOs and others are apparently afraid to do, to just share where they stand for human rights and the Constitution against Trump. I'm going to show you some of that by the end of the hour. But first, you've never seen Scott Peli like this. His first on camera response to the MAGA meltdown at cbs. You'll see it here next.
- [30:36]
Howard Dean
I'm Cyndi Lauper with fellow Kyntix advocate Chef Michelle Bernstein. We'll share our experiences with plaque psoriasis
- [30:44]
Ari Melber
with psoriatic arthritis, and Dr. Panico will
- [30:47]
Andrew Weissman
talk about the possible connection.
- [30:49]
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Cosentic Secukinumab is prescribed for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis 300mg dose, and adults with active psoriatic arthritis, 150mg dose. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentyx before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, bacterial, fungal or viral infections, some are fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough had a vaccine or planned to, or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentix or cosentyx.com Cindy
- [31:35]
Monday.com Advertiser
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- [31:50]
Howard Dean
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- [32:20]
Ari Melber
Turning to new remarks from the top of 60 minutes, Scott Pelley has now decided to come out and speak on camera. He had issued a statement after his unusual firing by CBS News as those MAGA clashes continued, and he was very clear about where he stands on the newly or relatively recently installed CBS boss Bari Weiss. Pelly said she was murdering the show, she says. He also says that she was doing something that involves bias, where she wanted to engineer more friendly coverage for Trump than what the actual independent journalists found from their reporting, and that Weiss almost derailed Pelly's report on the ice shootings in Minnesota that killed Renee Good.
- [33:06]
Scott Pelley
Barry Weiss sends an email to my boss, Tanya Simon. Two of the things in the email include, can we make the protesters look more violent? Now, I'm paraphrasing, I don't have the quote, but that's what was communicated to me. And the other thing was Renee Goode's car. You need to describe her as driving toward the officer. This is not what you see on the video. The video showed that the officer wasn't standing in front of the car and she wasn't driving toward him. But that's what the president said about that and that's the way she wanted it described. There was a thumb on the scale for the president's version of events that I felt was a level of political influence that I had never seen in 37 years at CBS News.
- [34:14]
Ari Melber
That is significant. This is 37 years. This is the top of CBS, their most prominent anchor, one of their clearly currently until he was fired, most prominent members of 60 Minutes, which is their flagship program. And he has receipts, he has evidence. He has it in writing. And it's not saying, hey, let's make sure we cover both sides. Let's consider what Donald Trump had to say, which by the way, is a natural part of balanced reporting. No, he alleges quite specifically and says he has the receipts that they were asking to mislead the viewers about the actual facts of this story about a woman who was killed by the government, by federal officers and to essentially he didn't use this word, but I will. He is alleging that they wanted to frame her to suggest that she was trying to murder with her car when she wasn't. And she's the one who was killed by the government. So this isn't one of those things where you say, oh, reporters, they get so dramatic. And it was just another workplace dispute. You can see why Mr. Peli, who has the credibility of all those decades of reporting, was concerned when the request he was getting was to frame up or mischaracterize or make look bad this recently deceased killed woman, this woman who was killed by the government. Now, that is very serious. I mentioned how reporting works. We will report for you exactly what CBS management that he's criticizing says. They deny these allegations of interference or political bias, including in the piece that Pelli is describing. So that's both sides of that. But you're talking about Ellison, the new leader and Weiss, who they put in charge Paramount under this pressure, while they want to get favorable treatment for their merger, Ellison wants and needs approval for the big, big deal, way bigger than cbs, which is the entire Warner Brothers movie studios, cnn, hbo, all of it. It now, Trump has continued to go after 60 minutes even when they got the new ownership, because that's pretty much his habit. He also got a $16 million settlement from Paramount over the News Division's Kamala Harris interview. Peli being very clear that given the weakness of that case, it really came down to editing that he viewed it as a bribe.
- [36:37]
Scott Pelley
The very last thing that the previous ownership did was pay a multi million dollar bribe to the president to settle this frivolous, ridiculous lawsuit. And very shortly after that, somehow the Trump administration approved the sale.
- [36:58]
Andrew Weissman
Paramount denied that those two things were linked.
- [37:00]
Ari Melber
That payment and then the deal going through. He was also asked about this manager who is seen as so close to the MAGA side, Barry Weiss, and what about her leadership? Do you think Bari Weiss needs to be removed?
- [37:20]
Scott Pelley
Oh, gosh, yes. I do think that we would be far better off without her. Maybe she goes back to the free press and has a sterling career, but this is like somebody walking up to me and saying, there's a 747, there are 400 people on it. We need you to fly it to Paris. I'm going to decline because I don't have a clue.
- [37:48]
Ari Melber
Pelly Discussing her lack of experience, she and her allies argue that she has media experience, running a newsletter and writing about the media. Peli's point, and this has been echoed by more than one CBS veteran, is that the actual structure of international television news is different and that in her time on the job, she showed very little interest in learning about that. That's their allegation. One of the other remaining 60 Minutes correspondence, Leslie Saul says her decision to stay shouldn't be viewed as an endorsement of the current management that you just heard criticize, and calls all of the oustings and firings the worst experience of her long career. This is a story that goes well beyond CBS or television media. It is about, at LEAST According to Mr. Peli and others inside CBS, how the government can worm its way into the free press, no pun intended, even in 2026 in the United States, but also how people can speak up and do something about it. And for that discussion, we're joined by Molly, Molly Zhang Fast next. Joining me now is Molly Jong Fast, New York Times contributing writer, MSNL analyst. You know your way around the media. It's really striking to see someone of Scott Pelley's level calling this out here. He was something else. He said, I haven't played yet about the interference.
- [39:12]
Scott Pelley
My hope is that the leadership of Paramount will say to themselves, okay, this isn't working. We have broadcasts that almost don't get on the air. We have respected journalists saying that there is a thumb on the scale for one political party over another. They don't know what they're doing. And there's a subtle political bias that I've never seen at 60 months before. And so. Or at CBS News before.
- [39:51]
Media Analyst/Commentator
So this is a guy who is torching a 37 year career at CBS News. And so the question is, why is he doing it? And I think the answer is like Walter Cronkite, right. He's taking this risk, he's doing this thing. And he's doing it because he sees that Barry Weiss was not brought in to run cbs. She was brought in to kill cbs. And that's what we're watching happen. And so I think it was an extremely brave move. And I think the reason it's getting so much attention is because people can see that it's real.
- [40:31]
Ari Melber
Yeah. And the example he gives where they wanted to make this deceased protester and driver look like she was trying to kill a cop. First of all, anyone who does that knowingly is potentially committing defamation, which is a long way from telling a story or telling it well journalistically. It's the other extreme and that's the pressure. He said he resisted and he is telling the story that he resisted those type of things over time, but now reached his breaking point.
- [41:00]
Media Analyst/Commentator
Yeah, I mean, look, this is so meaningful. This is like an old school news guy. And for him to come out and break that fourth wall and talk about what's happening in the newsroom, as you and I both know, you see very little of this. And there's a reason for that because these organizations are usually pretty, pretty private about how things are run. So you have to realize, like, he's come out like this because he saw things that he was really shaken by. And when you listen to that interview, what you hear is a person who, very shaken by what Paramount is trying to do to cbs. And I think he's trying to appeal to corporates, better angels, if there are any, which I'm not convinced there are.
- [41:45]
Ari Melber
Well, as a New York media insider yourself, how do you think this is viewed in the upper rungs of CBS where the people above the new management or the ownership structure, like David Ellison, they wanted to get certain things. They didn't want to pay this kind of cost.
- [42:01]
Media Analyst/Commentator
Right. I mean, look there. This is billions of dollars running. You know, this is. It still has to make money, even if it, if they want to make it FOX News Light. And the reality is FOX News Light, as we know, as Fox News knows, that's not for anyone. Right. The Fox people don't even like it. When Fox isn't foxy enough for them. So I think that there's. It's not for anyone. So I wonder how successful it will be. But I also think that when you look at this, you see, like, is there someone above Bari Weiss who can say like, this is not we wanted. And I don't know what the answer is, but.
- [42:38]
Ari Melber
Or. Or that they wanted something warmer to the current government, but not framing dead people.
- [42:43]
Media Analyst/Commentator
Right. And what I think is interesting is that they were, you know, they lost three correspondents and they were able to convince the other three to stay. So the question is, there was clearly some worry.
- [42:55]
Ari Melber
Yeah. And what are they promising? And do those folks following Pelly's example say we'll try and then we'll hold the line. You may end up with no one. Which is. Which is why it is different when people have some voice and willingness to fight. I want to show. You were just at the Tonys.
- [43:06]
Media Analyst/Commentator
Yes.
- [43:07]
Ari Melber
Did you have fun?
- [43:08]
Media Analyst/Commentator
I did. And actually what you were talking about in that tease was really interesting. People wanted to talk about politics.
- [43:14]
Ari Melber
Yeah. And I'm going to show some of that when we come back. Thanks, Tamale. And we'll take a look at the activism at the Tonys next. We are back and looking at how artists at the big Broadway award show of the Tonys were speaking up. Pink Bobby Cannavale calling out this government attack on First Amendment freedom. The powers that be are closing in on the First Amendment as the strongholds
- [43:42]
Andrew Weissman
of free speech fall.
- [43:44]
Ari Melber
I think it's important that Broadway stands strong and sticks to its values. Do you have something important to say?
- [43:52]
Howard Dean
I think I'm scared of how free speech is slowly eroding before our eyes. But I don't know. I'm encouraged because I think Broadway is actually succeeding at the task of speaking truth to pop power. And I'm proud to be part of this community.
- [44:08]
Ari Melber
Allie Louis Borski, a 26 year old, won for the Lost Boys and discussed the rights of immigrant families. This is dedicated to the beautiful tapestry
- [44:18]
Andrew Weissman
of immigrant families who make this country really special.
- [44:21]
Ari Melber
May you one day not have to audition for the empathy that should be freely given by this country that benefits from your beauty. And there was this emotional speech for the winner who was the first openly transgender person to win best Costume Design. We are here for the legacy of queer people, trans people. We are taking up space in ways. We have to take up space. We have to shift the paradigm. We know as a society that when we come together, we can make real, permanent change. It was a night to celebrate artistry and creativity, but also, as you see, courage. Something we all need in whatever walk of life you're in. And sometimes, as we've noted here, that comes from artists as well.
- [45:08]
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