Trump Approval Sinks Amid Epstein Scandal and Guard Deployment

Summary

The Beat with Ari Melber – Episode Summary

Episode: Trump Approval Sinks Amid Epstein Scandal and Guard Deployment
Host: Ari Melber
Guests: James Carville, Don Lemon, Chance the Rapper
Date: August 14, 2025

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Overview

This episode tackles multiple intersecting political stories: the ongoing Jeffrey Epstein scandal and alleged witness tampering, the controversial deployment of National Guard troops in Washington DC, President Trump's increasingly autocratic tactics, and the fallout in approval ratings. Ari Melber explores how these issues are reshaping US politics, the Democratic response—especially by high-profile figures like Gavin Newsom—and features in-depth conversations with Democratic strategist James Carville, journalist Don Lemon, and Grammy-winner Chance the Rapper, who speaks to the critical role of artists in turbulent times.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump, Epstein Scandal, and Approval Ratings

• Trump faces renewed scrutiny as the Epstein-Maxwell controversy deepens. Accusations of witness tampering and a suspicious prison transfer for Maxwell fuel bipartisan calls for transparency.
• Democrats highlight this as evidence of corruption and potential cover-ups, while some Republicans are unwilling to oppose calls for more information.
• Trump’s Approval Sinks: His rating among conservative-leaning Americans has dropped nine points, now at the lowest of his second term. Overall, 60% of Americans disapprove of his leadership, according to Pew Research ([05:01]-[06:40]).
• Notable Quote:
  • “Epstein’s victims have said this all looks like a cover-up.” – Ari Melber ([03:51])
  • “I have not heard the words Epstein survivor out of the White House ever.” – James Carville ([04:27])

2. Deployment of Federal Troops and Accusations of Autocratic Tactics

• Trump’s controversial summer deployment of National Guard troops in DC is criticized as unnecessary and an attempt to normalize militarization as a political tool ([06:15]-[07:20]).
• Governor Gavin Newsom trolls Trump by mimicking his online style and openly challenges him: “Someone whose weakness is masquerading as strength...We have got to meet fire with fire.” – Gavin Newsom (as quoted by Melber, [02:18])
• The segment contextualizes the politics of public safety, with facts that crime in DC is down.

3. Democratic Strategy: New Messaging and Media Ecosystem

• James Carville discusses the cost-of-living crisis, Democratic messaging, and the importance of embracing new media and engaging all audiences—including appearing on podcasts across the spectrum, something he notes has shifted since previous campaign eras ([08:47]-[13:32]).
• Dem Messaging Tactics: Newsom and Pritzker are praised for seizing the political moment and speaking more forcefully, signaling a move away from unilaterally “playing nice.”
• Notable Quote:
  • “If they get an Emmy for acting guilty, he’d win in a landslide.” – James Carville on Trump ([08:59])
  • “I think he understands, I think he’s an instinctive marketer...” – Carville on Joe Rogan’s influence ([12:17])
  • “If you’re proud of what you are, as I am...I’ll go on anybody because I feel like what I have to say, people are going to want to buy.” – Carville ([13:57])

4. Culture Wars: Trump’s Moves to Control Institutions

• The White House now openly discusses vetting Smithsonian exhibits to align with Trump’s vision, sparking accusations of censorship and politicization of culture ([23:05]-[24:15]).
• Painter Amy Sherald publicly pulls out of an exhibit in protest.
• Don Lemon frames Trump’s interests in arts and media as performance art—and bad performance art, predicting artists will lead the way in resisting anti-democratic trends.
• Notable Quote:
  • “Donald Trump thinks that he’s, you know, helping or he’s changing or whatever...when he’s actually helping them in a sense, to become better artists.” – Don Lemon ([26:26])

5. The Press Under Pressure

• Lemon and Melber highlight how corporate media consolidation and political pressure are undermining journalistic integrity.
• Don Lemon laments: “It makes me want to scream and cry at the same time...There’s no bulwark between the journalism and the corporate suites.” ([32:19])
• They argue that independent journalism is increasingly critical as legacy media capitulates.

6. Democratic Prospects and Young Voters

• Carville notes the excitement around new, young Democratic candidates, quoting Obama and emphasizing the rising importance of affordability and economic issues for future races ([17:08]-[20:23]).
• Notable Quote:
  • “Did he say stupid things in his 20s? Yes. All of you have not said stupid things in your 20s, raise your right hand because you’re not going to raise.” – Carville, on new candidates ([18:31])
  • “I’ve always been a believer that humanity will trump identity every time.” – Carville ([19:56])

7. Spotlight: Chance the Rapper on Music, Independence, and Activism

• Chance discusses his new album, Starline, inspired by Marcus Garvey’s Black Star Line and the theme of Black self-determination ([39:49]-[42:30]).
• On being independent: “Rather than feeling like a worker, a commodity or a resource to someone else...you own the means to make the music and the artistic IP is yours.” – Chance the Rapper ([41:15])
• His music tackles access, self-worth, and how Black communities have been denied a share in prosperity, including the cannabis industry.
• Artists’ voices matter: “At the fall of empire, the most important voices is the voices of artists and journalists...this is a different time to be making music.” ([44:41])
• He ends with a call: “Whatever your, you know, heavenly gift is, I think you’re supposed to use it towards the movement.” ([44:41])

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• On Trump and Culture War:
  • “The joke is not a joke. He is upset about his prior treatment and wants everything to be political.” – Ari Melber ([24:26])
• On Press Freedom:
  • “History will not look back kindly...on whoever gutted the marquee journalistic institution in the world, 60 Minutes.” – Don Lemon ([32:58])
• On Democratic Messaging:
  • “We cannot unilaterally disarm. We can't stand back and watch this democracy disappear district by district all across this country.” – Ari Melber ([15:29])
• On The Power of Art:
  • “Artists are going to get us out of this terrible time that we’re in.” – Don Lemon ([26:26])
  • “This is the most important time...at the fall of empire, the most important voices is the voices of artists and journalists.” – Chance the Rapper ([44:41])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Trump/Epstein Scandal & Approval: [01:12]–[07:20]
• James Carville on Costs, Media, and Democratic Messaging: [08:47]–[15:57]
• Newsom’s Sharper Democratic Tactics: [02:18], [15:29]–[17:08]
• Demographics, Obama Reach Out, and 2028 Race: [17:08]–[20:22]
• Trump’s Cultural Power Plays, Amy Sherald Protest: [23:05]–[27:44]
• Don Lemon on Press, Corporate Media Pressure: [31:30]–[34:38]
• Chance the Rapper Interview: [39:39]–[45:33]

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Tone and Language

Ari Melber maintains his incisive, slightly irreverent style, blending thorough legal-political analysis with pop culture references. James Carville is candid, wry, and self-deprecating. Don Lemon is fiery and plainly-spoken, focusing on the big picture and the mood of the country. Chance is thoughtful, passionate, and grounded in the history and importance of Black self-ownership in art.

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Conclusion

This episode is a panoramic look at how Trump's political, cultural, and institutional battles are landing with the public, the opposition, and the creative community. Melber and guests frame these events as not only a challenge for American democracy, but as an opportunity for Democratic leaders to innovate—and for artists to play a defining role in the country’s political soul. Perfect for anyone wanting the real dynamics behind the headlines and polling in this charged moment.

Transcript

[Kelly Ripa]

Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa. And if you've been listening to my podcast, we are knee deep in season three. And if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when the cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls out of Page Six? Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running for office? Or Jeremy Renner's lucid hallucinations about Jamie Foxx? Nowhere else. It's raw, it's honest, and best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff. So download. Let's talk off camera with Kelly Rippa now, wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Ari Melber]

Welcome to the beat, everyone. I'm Ari Melbourne. James Carville is here tonight. As we get back in the saddle, we also have new heat that Donald Trump is facing on the Epstein scandal. The protests over what he's trying to do in Washington, trying to normalize federal troops on your streets so you get used to it no matter what the reason. And we're going to show you right now what Governor Gavin Newsom is saying. He has been trolling Trump, going after him as a, quote, chicken. Imitating Donald Trump's posts online. This matters because it's part of what's happening in the country. But it also shows politically how Newsom and other Democrats are trying different styles because there's kind of a trolling going on. He's even impersonating the way Trump tweets or posts online. And this afternoon, Gavin's office, Gavin Newsom's office posts a video with masked officers outside his own press conference and then ripping into Trump. He's a failed president. Who else sends ice? Same time, having a conversation like this, someone is weak, someone is broken. Someone whose weakness is masquerading as strength. More from the California governor here. I know they say don't mess with Texas. Well, don't mess with the great Golden State here. He is once again trying to rig the system. He doesn't play by a different set of rules. He doesn't believe in the rules. We have got to recognize the cards that have been dealt and we have got to meet fire with fire. Fire with fire is absolutely the opposite of what we've heard so many times from Democrats, the opposition, about dealing with Trump. So you're seeing that change not from the far left, not from a street activist, but from one of the most prominent governors in the country who, it's no secret is on these lists to be a future Democratic candidate for president. There's also the Epstein scandal, which won't go away. There are accusations of witness tampering from Democrats about the little that has come out regarding the controversial interview of Epstein accomplice Maxwell. House Democrats trying to use power to get more information. And this is an issue where many House Republicans have been afraid to disagree with any call for Epstein transparency. They say the transfer of Maxwell to that better prison appears to violate Bureau of Prisons policy and they want details. Question also is whether Trump is using this and Trump or his aides or DOJ to shape any potential future words or testimony by Maxwell. Epstein's victims have said this all looks like a cover up. Two sources who know what Trump has said have told Rolling Stone that he critiqued media appearances by Epstein accusers and their families and viewed it only through his own personal lens that they're trying to make him look bad. Trump said that some of these people speaking out are, quote, Democrats. The White House actually denies this report. So if that's a mechanism or a political strategy, it's not one they want to admit to. We heard from an Epstein survivor, Jess Michaels, discussing. That's an older picture of her as she's become an activist in these issues. We gave her the mic to hear directly from someone who's been affected by all this.

[James Carville]

I have not heard the words Epstein survivor out of the White House ever. It's not just that they're ignoring survivors when they're having meetings, when they're discussing.

[Ari Melber]

When they're talking with the convicted pedophile sex trafficker.

[James Carville]

I'm really shocked and not that this woman has been able to weasel her way into getting, working towards a pardon, working towards leniency concern there.

[Ari Melber]

The prison leniency for Maxwell Hill has been reporting on the flurry of action on Epstein that Congress is planning for September. It is summer. Regular people are living their summer lives and maybe following the news a little less. But the evidence is that for many different reasons, the News will stay on this issue and Epstein and Trump's problems with it well past Labor Day when everyone comes back to work. Indeed, it's one of the rare things we've seen have support from the MAGA podcast right to the anti Trump left. And speaking of anti Trump concerns, we're seeing fresh protests over the use of federal power and troops in our nation's capital without any great emergency. Of course, there are times where you welcome the National Guard, but this summer deployment has smacked of a pretext for autocratic tactics by Trump, according to many critics. Here's some of what we hear in the scene. Donald Trump has mused about using and abusing more federal power on our homeland for a long time. That's no secret. They didn't exactly brainstorm some big new reason or trigger for this set of actions. They just made vague references to crime, which of course goes up and down all over the country. Many key crimes that are measured in D.C. are down. There certainly isn't a kind of a riot or ongoing emergency that would justifiably normally bring out the guard. There's polling that Trump's not doing well. He's actually dropped nine points. Interestingly, among conservative leaning Americans, people who say they are either Republican or leaning 83% is still a base, but we checked, it's the lowest number of this second term. He's going in the wrong direction. While pew shows overall 60% of Americans disapprove of this. So what do you do with a hand this week in this long summer of Epstein for the Trump White House, James Carville joins me in 90 seconds.

[Don Lemon]

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[Don Lemon]

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[Chance the Rapper]

About the ROI on a bag of chips.

[Don Lemon]

Seriously. From getting paid for doing chores around the house to saving up for concerts.

[Chance the Rapper]

Greenlight's teaching my kids how to handle their money.

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[Ari Melber]

We are back with longtime Democratic strategist James Carville. James, this is one of those news days where I took through a couple of things, but they all were going in sort of one direction. Your thoughts on any of the above?

[James Carville]

Well, the big thing that I watch today as I watch every morning and what's going on with the cost of living, school supplies have gone up substantially year over year from, from this year to last year, which is something that a lot of people engaged in. Beef prices at an all time high. It's about 240 days since he declared that he would beat inflation. I remember on this network, Keith Olman, you said it was how many days since Mission Accomplished may want to do a thing. It's been 242 days since Donald Trump has promised to beat cost of living increases. You feel, you feel any relief and that's his biggest problem overall. I mean, I've seen stuff, I mean, if they get an Emmy for acting guilty, he'd win in a landslide. I mean, as guilty as you can be, it's a lot of money.

[Ari Melber]

Well, you know, it's, it's the link there. There was a new cartoon that shows the sort of dark, autocratic imagery of soldiers in Washington. And then one observer is saying to another, boy, whatever's in those Epstein files must be really, really bad.

[James Carville]

You know, I watched the clip you showed of the people frustrated and you're yelling at air. When you yell at these guardsmen, they're not there because they want to be there because they're told to be. You ought to go across the Potomac and phone bank and, and walk precincts and Prince William or Blauton county or Henrico or Chesterfield or one of those places because that's going to get the Virginia governor's race is going to get 5,000 times the amount of attention that's going on in the streets of Washington right now. And it's going to end very poorly for him, I promise you.

[Ari Melber]

There is the splintering on the right, which feels different than as they say back in your day, although you're still here. So I don't mean it any which way, but, but you're on the new mediums which is always find interesting about you. You're posting online and you engage with the pods. You were engaging with more podcasts than frankly the Democratic nominee was last year. And they are less relentlessly partisan for the GOP than say Fox. So it is a different ecosystem and I'm going to play Rogan for you and then get your thoughts on Fox. We, we monitor it. I support their free speech. They can say whatever they want. But hour by hour by hour. James, they say Donald Trump is handling immigration. Perfect. Couldn't improve on 100 A plus rating. And Joe Rogan, who by the way is a conservative and has supported some aspect of limiting new migrants into the country that's his policies has a very different take here.

[Chance the Rapper]

It is, it was a visceral reaction that a lot of people had the idea of people just showing up and pulling people out of schools and pulling people out of Home Depot and pulling people that were just hard working people that maybe snuck over here because they didn't have a legal way to get over here. But since they've been here they've been good people and they're a part of communities and that's what freaks people out. Because when people thought about ice, they thought great, we're going to get rid of the gang members. They didn't think great, you're going to get rid of a landscaper from a.

[Ari Melber]

Trump voter there with a lot of audience. Your thoughts?

[James Carville]

Well, you know Joe Rogan, that guy's smart. I never viewed him as a kind of doctrinaire right winger. He's more into male, male resentment and being put on and he knows his audience pretty good. And there's two things is up. It's a tenet of a lot of conservatives. There's something going on with this child sex stuff and they feel like they're vindicated because the Epstein things tends to prove that they had a point to start with. The other thing is I know a little bit about that ethic. They do. So not all of them, I don't know if most of them, but a significant part of the Joe Rogan audience kind of admires hard work. And man, let me tell you, if you take a 10 year old and 8 year old, you walk 400 miles to get in the United States. I'd say come on in, come on in man, we got a place for you lady, right here. Because I think he understands, I think he's an instinctive marketer and I honestly think he was a pretty good one. And I think we made a big mistake in Our going on his show, I don't think he's some modern day version of Rush Limbaugh at all. I think he's more sophisticated.

[Ari Melber]

Well, you bring it up, I mean know we learn, people learn over time. There was a loud, I don't know how representative it was, but there was a loud liberal Democratic wing saying that for Bernie Sanders to engage with him or take his endorsement itself was bad. Pretty rare to take a powerful person with a lot of audience. You can disagree about many things and say no, don't tell your people to vote for me.

[James Carville]

Yeah, the word is loud. They're not very effective. They really don't win elections. They have very limited cultural power. It's mostly in museums and foundations and academia and entertainment. I think that they just make a lot of noise and they try to latch on to anything. But if you're proud of what you are, as I am, I'm proud of my political philosophy. I'm actually a proud Democrat. I'll go on anywhere. I'll come on Ori Melvin, anytime you ask me, I'll go on Sean Hannity, I'll go on Jesse Waters, I'll go on, on anybody because I feel like what I have to say, people are going to want to buy and they're going to be part of that. And what they're selling this anger and boycott everything and boycott this and it just people, that's not where people are and they're not popular and they're not very effective. I'll just say that. Let it go.

[Ari Melber]

Well, it's funny you mentioned institutions because we got something on that coming up. But James, stay with me. I'm also going to show you more of what Newsom's doing. I'll tell folks coming up. This crackdown at the Kennedy center, we have a report on that and Don Lemon joins us later in the hour tonight.

[Don Lemon]

What are you talking about?

[James Carville]

Oh, cookies and pretty much cookies.

[Don Lemon]

They're happening all over the country. Right here in New York, there's a just appearance, very big one downtown rolling from the west side to the east side.

[Ari Melber]

We cannot unilaterally disarm. We can't stand back and watch this democracy disappear district by district all across this country. We need to stand up. Not just California, other blue states need to stand up.

[Don Lemon]

We need to be firm.

[Ari Melber]

And I resolve. Governor Newsom speaking today. We're back with James Carville. Are Democrats in the national stage finding a sharper, better message against Trump?

[James Carville]

Well, this is a good one and I'll give a a in political campaign to Governor Newsom and also Governor Pritzker. I mean, they were given an opportunity, and they stepped in and they stepped up to the plate, and people are outraged. I mean, no one wants politics to be about drawing maps, okay? They want it to be about ideas and campaigning, but you're forced to it. It's like, well, they use chemical warfare. What do you expect us to do? And I think it's given him an opportunity to, you know, to command center stage. I think he's very aggressively and smartly taken at. As I think Governor Pritzker has now. Is this going to decide the Democratic nomination in 2028? I don't know. It might. You know, people are more angry about it, and I think the more people find out about it, the madder they're going to get. And it's just not hardcore Democrats like me or, say, my friend Don Lemon, my Baton Rouge guy who's coming on after me. But I think people, this is. This is something that's just not right. I don't think this is going to sit well. I bet you this doesn't sit well with Joe Rogan over a period of time. I think that guy has a better sense of justice than this and something.

[Ari Melber]

You know, a lot about people can't keep track of everything. So what you're saying is the Democrats are actually boosting this and saying, put them back on defense, because you're talking about writing the rules in the middle of the game, because otherwise you'd lose. People can understand that. It's not. It's not a tricky one. As for whether this is a template for a Democratic leader, I'll tell you this, James. I know people come up to you because I've occasionally been out in the world with you. People come up to James Carville. I'm no James Carpenter, but this summer, people come up to me. The top questions I get, not a poll anecdotal, is I get questions about American democracy, what's going to happen in the future with Trump. I get a lot of Epstein questions. That's just a big topic. And then I keep getting questions about Mom, Donna. And we got reports now, Barack Obama himself reached out to Democratic nominee for mayor, but he's not even elected yet in New York. Axelrod speaking on that. I have the quote here says, look, you might not agree with every answer or every idea, but he's asking the right questions. How do we make the country work for working people and inspire young Americans who have this economic uncertainty? You've said you like Mom, Dhumi on the economy, what do you make of Obama reaching out? The fact that we're hearing about it. Not everything's an accident in politics. And what's coming down the pike in this race that's now pretty close in the fall?

[James Carville]

Well, I think President Obama was wise to do this. Look, the guy's, he's smart, he's young. All right. Did he say stupid things in his 20s? Yes. All of you have not said stupid things in your 20s. You know, raise your right hand because you're not going to raise. But, you know, he cost a living. Understand that. He pounds it home. I give him very high marks for that, very high marks. And, you know, he's got some energetic people around him. And I'm surprised, honestly, already the number of young people I know, young people, grandchildren of people I know in New York are saying, you know, my kids are excited about this guy. Somebody wanted to bet me even money. And I'm not going to take the bet that he carried the Jewish vote in the general election in November.

[Ari Melber]

James. I don't know.

[James Carville]

Just might do that.

[Ari Melber]

I don't know if you remember this from all your days on the road. There are a fair amount of Jewish New Yorkers.

[James Carville]

I didn't know that. I thought, you know, what? Damn.

[Ari Melber]

Well, you're. But you're speaking on something which is. What are we defined by? Right. And it's his detractors who wanted to make his candidacy all about the Middle east, which is a big debate in the country. In the world on the left and the right. That's a whole debate. But they wanted to go into that. And you're saying he could actually hold the line with Jewish New Yorkers who are mostly Democrats, partly because it's the affordability message that made him the most popular in the primary.

[James Carville]

Yeah. A lot of people who are sympathetic to the state of Israel, I would certainly consider myself one, you know, pretty uncomfortable about these images of these children and these pediatricians coming out. I mean, at some level, the humanity kicks in on this thing. You know, I've always been a believer that humanity will trump identity every time. But I, I do think people are uncomfortable this. And justifiably so.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah.

[James Carville]

But again, I'm not, I can't defend sir, he doesn't need mess. But I think he has energy.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, he's got energy.

[James Carville]

He's got energy.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And, and, and as they say, both things can be true. People could have disagreements with, as you put it, something he said in his 20s or even what he would do if he were the chief Mideast peace negotiator, which, which is not the job he's running for. So again, you get into what, what's the issue? Who picked it? James, we started the show with you. We continued the show with you two blocks in a row in the summer. My guy, thanks for being here.

[James Carville]

Thank, thank you so much. And the young people are, they're coming on. See you, man. Take care.

[Ari Melber]

There they go. We'll keep watching. Our thanks to James Carville. Coming up, we have a veteran journalist with a lot of perspective joining me tonight.

[Don Lemon]

Here's what I noticed from my time here, that the young men said that they are automatically looked at by members of law enforcement as suspects. The way that they approach them is the way that the guys are going to respond to them.

[Ari Melber]

Veteran reporter, anchor, newsman, and now digital star Don Lemon. We love it when he's around. He joins me live next.

[Don Lemon]

Hey, everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody knows your name and we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to where everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ari Melber]

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[Don Lemon]

Comfort is a mattress that feels soft and supportive, made without harmful chemicals. Comfort is being able to invest in.

[Ari Melber]

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[Don Lemon]

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[Ari Melber]

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[Don Lemon]

You know who's surprisingly good with money? Greenlight kids. The other day, mine stopped to think about the ROI on a bag of chips. Seriously. From getting paid for doing chores around the house to saving up for concerts.

[Chance the Rapper]

Greenlight's teaching my kids how to handle their money.

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[Ari Melber]

President Trump seeking to abuse government power to shape culture and censor free speech. The White House says it will do a review of Smithsonian museum exhibits so that they align with Trump's vision. They're admitting partisan abuse of a hallowed institution that is supposed to provide Accurate history, beautiful art and truth, but not switch every four years based on politics. Renowned painter Amy Sherrill actually pulled out of a Smithsonian exhibit to show by walking away that she was not going to put up with any such distortions. For example, her paintings, including one that imagined a sort of trans Statue of Liberty. Facing pressure from this partisan big government anti free speech administration, his attempts at a cult of personality are also becoming quite noticeable and at times bizarre. He said he will personally host this year's honor ceremony at Kennedy center, obviously giving a tell to how he views not only his schedule because you should be busy doing, you know, peace negotiations, but also that he sees himself on par with the usual approach and honorees.

[James Carville]

The Kennedy Center Honors have been among the most prestigious awards in the performing arts.

[Ari Melber]

I wanted one.

[James Carville]

I was never able to get one. Hell with it. I'll become chairman and I'll give myself an honor.

[Ari Melber]

The joke is not a joke. He is upset about his prior treatment and wants everything to be political. Remember, even if you are a traditional conservative, even a Republican or MAGA voter, most people do not want politics rubbed and distorted over every single part of our American culture. Let the artists decide. That's why we go to see art. The broader backdrop is the abuse of power, the threats to companies, the misuse of the merger approval process that we've covered shows that now even Hollywood, which of course is just a bunch of businesses, are chasing red state audiences and shows trying to go after what is a suddenly prized demographic. Reporters from the New Yorker chasing that story and entire corporations are bowing to powerful right wing actors, including cutting normal diversity programs or recruitment. The Paramount Skydance merger as measured. And that is just the tip of the censorship iceberg to get into this story. We have what we think is a great guest tonight, Don Lemon, who of course is a serious reporter, an anchor, we showed him out in the field earlier in the program. But also quite frankly, a knowledgeable part of our culture.

[Don Lemon]

Many New Yorkers are not changing their routines despite the latest terror warnings. Are you racist?

[James Carville]

I'm the least racist person that you have ever met.

[Don Lemon]

We're on the eve of Super Tuesday, Senator. What's the one thing you want voters there and across the country to know before they cast their vote? What do you talk about?

[James Carville]

Oh, cookies. And pretty much cookies.

[Ari Melber]

A Cookie Monster interview. Not an easy get. I've never gotten one of those. I do. It looks fun. I want to mention, of course, the Don lemon show on YouTube where a lot of Don's longtime viewers and fans catch up with him and he's the author of I Once Was My Search for God in America, the book that brings him to us tonight. Great to have you.

[Don Lemon]

Thank you. And I write about this.

[Ari Melber]

What do you see in Trump here?

[Don Lemon]

I say that money driven mass media created Trump. He's a creation of that. So we shouldn't be surprised that he's a bloviator. Here's the good thing, by the way, I just want to say Amy Sherrill is a friend of mine. I've never been prouder of her. I'm so happy that she's doing what she's doing. And I think this is actually going to be helpful to her. And I think in some strange way, this will be helpful to other artists. As you know, you're a huge fan of rap and hip hop. So art is artists like the fire. It makes them better. And so Donald Trump thinks that he's, you know, helping or he's changing or whatever he thinks that he's doing with artists when he's actually helping them in a sense, to become better artists. This is a, this is art in itself. What Donald Trump is doing. It is performance art, bad performance art, that he's going to get roasted by artists, whether it's rappers, whether it's painters, whether it's photographers or whatever it is, artists are going to get us out of this terrible time that we're in. I believe it's going to be artists because it's definitely not journalism right now for the most part, because, as you know, you mentioned in the run up to when you were introducing me, a lot of folks are bending the knee. Artists don't do that. They do what Amy Sherrill did. And they say, you're not changing my art. It's for consumption of people, not for. It's not about perfection of what you want.

[Ari Melber]

Well, you make an interesting point that by being so invasive and Trump using big federal government power to go into these places, it puts more people in that decision of, hey, you know the old book, you can't be neutral on a moving train.

[James Carville]

Right, Right.

[Ari Melber]

To be quiet and just go along with, say, a campus, a college or an institution, a museum, saying, hey, we like some of this. We're just going to remove the parts of your statement that offend the current government. You know, that's not America. And that's not something I think a lot of artists want to be neutral on. I'll show you some of these headlines. Trump says Gayle King's career is over.

[Don Lemon]

Trump to be friends with Gayle King, he wants to be friends with Oprah. He wants to be friends with all celebrities.

[Ari Melber]

Kimmel, all these headlines. What do you, what do you see here? And what's animating what is clearly a personal vendetta?

[Don Lemon]

Well, he feels, you know, somehow spited or slighted, I should say, by celebrities and by his once liberal friends who he loved hanging out with, who he invited to his multiple weddings and different babies, mamas. And so he feels slighted by that. So he's, this is a revenge tour. It's nothing more than that. And look, people, I, I don't have very many positive things, if any at all, to say about Donald Trump. And I've interviewed him six, eight times, maybe more. You know, he would call and from, you know, when I was on cnn, he'd call in, I don't know where he was, in the bed, the toilet, whatever he was, seriously. And he would just call in and talk and ramble and Grant. And so I don't have very many positive things to say about him because there aren't really any positive things to say about it about him. He does, what he's doing is objectively bad for the world, is objectively bad for our democracy, and it should be called as such. There should not be false equivalents with anything that Donald Trump does because he doesn't play by the rules. He's not fair. Look what he's trying to do we mentioned with the arts. Look what he's trying to do around the country. Trying to steal elections right now.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And trying to rewrite the rules.

[Don Lemon]

People are pretending to as if this is some, something that's normal and they're treating it like, oh, well, let's have a conversation about this. No, what he's doing is bad. This is not a census year. This should not be happening. He should not be calling governors to try to because he's afraid of losing the midterms to try to steer elections in a certain direction.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. And as you say, we're in a society right now where the incumbent government says, well, if we're going to lose power in a free and fair election, then let's not have one.

[Don Lemon]

Right.

[Ari Melber]

Let's have an unfair election. Let's change the rules. As for late night, I'll show how some of this is, is playing out. Let's take a look.

[Don Lemon]

After naming himself chairman of the Kennedy center today, President Trump announced this year's honorees.

[Ari Melber]

Trump said he picked Kiss because they're one of the greatest rock and roll.

[Don Lemon]

Bands of all time and also because they wear as much makeup as he does.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. Give him something stupid to do to.

[James Carville]

Keep him out of trouble. Hosting award shows is what he envisioned being president is in the first place.

[Ari Melber]

He could be the host at an Applebee's. Anything that distracts him from running this country into the ground, this is.

[Don Lemon]

Told ya.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah. I mean, this is the back and forth and this is what the country's experiencing and the, and his approval is, is sinking. I mean, there's no evidence that people want this.

[Don Lemon]

Look, whether you think that, I don't know, art or politics is downstream from culture or culture is downstream from politics, Donald Trump is losing by every single meas. He's underwater 68 points with black people. He's underwater 43 points with Hispanic. He's even underwater five points with white voters. And brand new Pew Research polling shows that he has a 38% approval rating and a 60% disapproval rating. Now he's still President of the United States.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

Elections have consequences. We just have to buckle up and figure out how to get through the next couple of years so that some, maybe we can, some semblance of democracy can be brought back to America and.

[Chance the Rapper]

Really to the world.

[Don Lemon]

Because we're supposed to be showing the world what democracy is really like. We're not doing such a good job right now.

[Ari Melber]

Given your extensive experience in the job and you know, it's easy to sit outside and throw darts.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Ari Melber]

And the media, we need some darts because sometimes people make important critiques. But you've actually done the job for a long time. When you see this, many corporate owners give up this quickly, either for financial reasons or just general fear. We saw it at cbs. We saw ABC settle. We saw Washington Post completely change its opinion section and a lot more, and kill endorsements after a very powerful person. I mean, if Bezos can't withstand it, who can? Said, well, I think Trump has changed and I want to play ball. Given your experience, what does that look like to you and does that concern you? As someone who has been part of the credentialed press.

[Don Lemon]

You want the answer. It makes me want to scream and cry at the same time. Because someone who I really respect said you should be calling the person who asked you to leave CNN and telling them thank you and to kiss them. Considering what's happening with journalism right now. Now, I worked with some of the best journalists in the world, and I cannot imagine what they're up against unless they're deluding themselves that something good is happening with journalism. It is not. And I don't mean necessarily in the newsrooms.

[Ari Melber]

They're talking about with the corporate bosses.

[Don Lemon]

Who are bending the knee, who are settling lawsuits that are winnable, who are. There's no, you know, bulwark between the journalism and the corporate sweets that they should not be influencing journalism. History will not look back kindly or show kindly on whoever gutted the marquee journalistic institution in the world, 60 Minutes. It's not going to look kindly on that. Regardless of how much money you made from it, it's going to look poorly. History's not going to look fondly on Donald Trump for doing what he's doing. Donald Trump is strong arming, bullying corporate owners, threatening their businesses. And that is trickling down to newsrooms. And it is so obvious. You see the numbers dwindling. People say, you know, people are just cutting the cord. It's not just cord cutting. The American public, the viewer is not stupid. They understand when people are not being real with them. They understand when people are being influenced by oligarchs or business owners or their bosses. And that's why I think, quite honestly, this is such a boon for independent journalists because we have no corporate bosses over us. The sad thing is that we don't have the big corporate sponsorships, but that's coming. But we have no bosses over us saying, ah, you know, do you have to say that Donald Trump is racist? Can't you just say he's trafficking in racism? Can't you just say that some of the things he does is borders on racism? No, Donald Trump is a, you know what?

[Ari Melber]

Racism, race. Do you have to say he, he tried to steal the election? You just say he's testing his power.

[Don Lemon]

He's. He's trying to steal the election. And I think people want journalists to be straight with them and not pretend like this is normal and not pretend that there's not, to give it false equivalence. And quite honestly, not to sit around desks like this and yell at each other and just fight.

[Ari Melber]

Well, see, I was going to yell at you, but now I can't.

[Don Lemon]

No, but you can. If it's organic, I agree that you can disagree.

[Ari Melber]

No, I feel you. That was just a light joke.

[Don Lemon]

If people are just, just booked on shows just to fight, it doesn't. It's not good.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, I appreciate what you said. I'm going to give you something positive in closing.

[Don Lemon]

What is that?

[Ari Melber]

The last time you were here, we talked about a very technical matter in television that you know from your work, which is the tab of the segment. I draw everyone's eyes to the tab in the upper left corner. You ordered zesty last time and you've gotten it this time.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, my gosh. I did.

[James Carville]

What happened?

[Ari Melber]

You said what about Zesty is a tab.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, there's a tab, right?

[Ari Melber]

Oh, the blue tab. Zesty third.

[Don Lemon]

I see.

[Ari Melber]

Lower third. Zesty tab. It's a lemon related pun, but you have to think about it. Lemon zest, Zesty.

[Don Lemon]

This is a very Louisiana heavy show.

[Ari Melber]

It is two thirds of the guest.

[Don Lemon]

James Carville is my man. Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

[Ari Melber]

Don Lemon with thoughts on culture and how to get it done. We appreciate it. Coming up, Trump's pick to be the top labor official on the stats. Actually spotted outside the January 6th Capitol attack there. And coming up against the rap. You got chance right here. You still got chance over here.

[James Carville]

Oh, my God.

[Ari Melber]

Oh, you got sans right here.

[James Carville]

Oh, wow.

[Ari Melber]

And even though my boy is black, you got Chance right here. Donald Trump under fire for the ongoing controversy about trying to maybe cook the books at the Bureau of Labor Statistics, ousting someone for telling the truth. His new nominee is a Magna Loyalist Project 2025 economist who's worked with the Heritage Foundation. And as if that wasn't enough about the partisanship, when you want a mathematician, turns out he was right here. Spotted at a crime spree, the January 6th attack, where others, of course, were convicted and went to prison for sedition. He was seen, however, walking away from the Capitol on the west side there. This was an hour after the mob started storming the barricades. That means that he was a part of this, which is concerning, but not to be clear evidence linking him to the criminal trespassing or other activities inside the building. The White House says he was a bystander. Remember, if you have to be identified as a bystander at a Trump event, that should tell you even the Trump folks are concerned about admitting about all the Trump supporters who commit crimes. So, hey, just a bystander, he says or others around him that he was in town for meetings and denies engaging in anything illegal. Trump ally Steve Bannon has pushed the nomination and he's a frequent guest on that War Room show.

[Chance the Rapper]

Have we put in our own person into bls?

[James Carville]

Is, is. Is a MAGA Republican that President Trump knows and trusts? Are they running the Bureau of Labor Statistics yet, sir?

[Ari Melber]

No, unfortunately, Steve, we still haven't gotten there. And I think that's part of the.

[Chance the Rapper]

Reason why we continue to have all.

[Ari Melber]

Of these different data problems. Calls for partisanship over math. Now coming up, a Grammy winner who's worked with Obama and has a new album, Chance the Rapper.

[Don Lemon]

This time of year, I get thankful.

[Ari Melber]

Baby, thankful for you. There's a lot of new music coming down the pike from Taylor Swift to our next guest, Chance the Rapper from Chicago, who actually once interned for Obama and named him as one of his favorite musicians. Not a bad presidential shout out. And they go way back. You can see them there. President and first lady Chance the Rapper. You know him as a three time Grammy winner including best rap album, best rap performance and back in the day before he was a global star when he was best new artist. Avenue of ambulances near the labyrinth of pants lab is adamantly here. My mama had to work, my mama had to burn new kids My mama drove the church and iron shirts and cap was smurf. And in a time of corporate pressure, indeed, what we're discussing tonight, corporate pressure on all kinds of culture. We should note that Chance the Rapper is the first independent artist. That means not pre signing to a big corporate label to go diamond moving 10 million records. The new album out tomorrow is called Starline. Chance the Rapper returns to the beat on this fine day. Nice to see you. Thanks for being here.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yo, thanks for having me, man.

[Ari Melber]

Absolutely. People are excited to get new music from you. Tell us about this project, the title, I read about what that all means.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah, yeah. So the project comes out tonight. It's called Starline. It's a beautiful, beautiful journey through these past six years. My travels to Accra, Ghana and West Africa, learning so much about my history, not, you know, just here, but globally. All of the communities that we're connected to and it really shines through on the music. And I, I named a Starline after Marcus Garvey's Black Star Line, which was a black shipping and trading company started in the 20s that was owned and operated by black folks in the US and they charted their own path. They, you know, had the power of self determination and really spoke to me. And so these last few years I've been learning more about myself, learning more about our histories and it really comes through on the album.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, that's, it's super interesting and I think a lot of our viewers will, will know the reference. You're talking about a black power movement that wanted to mix social and civil rights, which is just protecting equality with building power. Something that Garvey and Malcolm X and others said, well, we got, we got to own the power, so we're not asking for anything. I wonder in your mind does that. I don't want to put, you know, words in Your mouth, in your mind. Does that also relate to what I mentioned, that you've, you've been an independent artist in a way that, that clearly has. Has reinforced the independence of your voice?

[Chance the Rapper]

Absolutely. I think one of the greatest things about being independent is the fact that you sort of get an opportunity to decommodify your art and be humanized as an owner or as a person that has a resource that they naturally own. So rather than feeling like a worker, a commodity or a resource to someone else, like a larger company, you own the means to make the music and the artistic IP is yours. And so when you're in a position as a musician, I think you naturally should be in control of, you know, what your music does, your masters stuff like that boring music stuff, but like it. It reverberates through everything. Like Marcus Garvey and many people since then have always, I think, push towards black people, honing the means to operate to have a bigger impression on agriculture, on education, politics, economics, everything in a lot of spaces that we don't. That we didn't at the time and we still currently don't occupy.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. We have a clip I believe here from, from one of the lead singles, Tree. Let's take a listen to that with.

[Don Lemon]

She Told Me Son, don't worry, don't.

[Ari Melber]

You have no shame. There's going to be frustration in this white man's game and they're going to have us tied up once it's legalized because it is a tr. Tell us about that.

[Chance the Rapper]

Pretty visceral, huh? Yeah, the. Yeah, the record is. It's called Tree. It's about. It's about all kinds of trees. But it's mainly, I think the whole idea of the songs that like I was just saying that, you know, that lack of access or participation in agriculture and a microcosm of that could just be the fact that black people don't get to participate necessarily in the cannabis industry or in, you know, various avenues of wealth. And the song itself is just, you know, it's a sample of India Aries video, which is a song my mom used to play to me forever about, you know, understanding my self worth, believing in myself, you know what I'm saying, taking control of my destiny. And I flipped that to make a song about my mother who, you know, never made me, you know, like weary of the taboos around smoking weed or feel otherized by a lot of the things that, you know, pop culture would treat us or would teach us to. To think is unbecoming of ourselves. And so that record is like both, you know, a chill, fun record to, you know what I'm saying, smoke to. But it's also, you know, a good time to just like, think about some of the inner workings of, of how our country's set up.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, that makes sense. I'll warn you Now, I got 45 seconds left, but does this feel like a different time to make music and speak given everything we've just covered in the news tonight?

[Chance the Rapper]

This is the most important time. I'm glad you told me you got 45 seconds. It's the most important time. I heard you earlier on with Don and he was talking about how, you know, I'm paraphrasing, but at the fall of Empire, the most important voices is the voices of artists and journalists. And so I think it's incredibly important time to be honest, to be grace giving, but also to be bold in our approach and how we speak about the truths that are out there. So I agree totally that, like, this is a different time to be making music. It's a different time to be telling the news. It's a different time to be working in government and healthcare and education and anything and whatever your, you know, heavenly gift is, I think you're supposed to use it towards the movement. Speaking of movement, I'm going on tour. I saw you post my tour up on the screen and we didn't get.

[James Carville]

To talk about it.

[Ari Melber]

We'll put it back up. I mean, by the way, what you just said, I think resonates for a lot of people so people can really hear what Chance, you said. We'll go full. Put it in full, folks. I'm telling our producers. And we back. And we back. And we back. You could check out Chance the Rapper's tour. Could check out him online, on Instagram, Find the exact tour dates and where to get tickets. And the new album, of course, is Starline. Chance, thanks for coming on. It drops tonight, baby. There we go.

[James Carville]

See you out there on the road, right?

[Ari Melber]

Yes, sir. I hope so. Thanks to Chance. That's the beat.

[Don Lemon]

It's Stephen A. Smith here. You want sports? SiriusXM's got it all. Every game, every team, all season long. Debates, rants, hot takes and no filter whatsoever. Trust and believe. You don't want to miss what I have to say this week on the Stephen A. Smith show, only on Sirius xm.