← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Trump Blames Shutdown for GOP’S Election Wipeout
00:41:13
Polling shows that affordability and economic anxiety drove the GOP losses as millions of Americans are going to food banks unable to access their SNAP benefits, MSNBC's Ari Melber reports. New York Times' Michelle Goldberg, Emily Bazelon, and MSNBC's Jason Johnson join.
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- [00:50]
Ari Melber
Welcome to the beat everyone. I'm Ari Melbourne. We begin with the shockwaves from an earthquake that is reshaping our politics. What started Tuesday night has really created continued to resonate across the week. Democratic wins in what are off year elections. And when you go into the data and all the people who have been crunching the numbers even more as the days go on, you can see it was a lot more than just the governor's races. The trend lines are a warning for Republicans if Democrats could continue this and run good candidates and stay united. Now those are obviously big ifs if you know politics. President Obama is taking a more active role than usual. In the past election cycles, especially for an off year, we saw him not only on the stump, but today he waded in, which he doesn't always do. These are his first public comments about those Democratic victories. Something of a victory lap for him given that he was out in the field. And he discussed what he calls the voters rejection of a cruel Trump agenda.
- [01:50]
Jason Johnson
It was a good reminder that it turns out that the American people are paying attention. They don't want cruelty. They're not looking for people on the top trying to entrench themselves in power. They believe in community. They believe in treating people with decency and respect.
- [02:24]
Ari Melber
You can hear the applause. He was speaking at a gathering of Pod Save America, which is a hit media company series of podcasts from Obama veterans. You could see behind him as well Alex Wagner, an MSNBC anchor who also has done a podcast for them. And so it was, of course, in the crowd cheering, a very friendly Obama kind of crowd. But the things he said do seem to relate to what a heck of a lot of other people thought who aren't partisan Democrats, but are voters in places that Trump had done well before, including Pennsylvania and parts of rural Virginia. Trump is not on board with that exact interpretation, although he knows he lost and he hasn't been lying about that, in contrast to some other Republican losses. But he is lying about some of the economics. The polling shows affordability and economic anxiety drove the Republicans losses here, which again, to both have a memory and to be fair, as they say, is also what drove Democratic losses in Biden, the Biden Harris agenda a year ago. We do know, and we've mentioned this in our reporting, James Carville and others, Jacob and Dori have talked about on this very program, voters punish incumbents when the economics are bad. The Carville phrase, it's the economy stupid, updated to its affordability stupid. And Republicans paying a price for Trump's forgotten promise. Forgotten, of course, is a charitable way to put it. There are Democrats, liberals, experts, critics who argued that Trump never meant much about his promises on prices. He certainly has pushed boundaries and spent political capital or energy or whatever you want to call it this year, and never on infrastructure, which he used to talk about, or any national plan to really lower prices. As you know, he has what the courts are questioning might be new taxes in the tariffs. He's picked a lot of big fights over culture issues. He's indicted political opponents in a way that might be unlawful. We'll find out. Point is, he's done a lot of stuff but hasn't done much of anything on prices. His critics say he never was going to. He wasn't serious. Democrats now say they know how to run on this better than before. Politics moves fast. Technology and media changes. And so what Trump was selling last year, literally a year ago in November, selling seemed to work a bit and it is not working now. In a way, he's caught in his own trap because people do remember how much he said he would do and that he said the prices were a problem. He now owns that economy and now he's just using the a word, affordability, like saying it will make it real. So the affordability is much better with the Republicans. The only problem is the Republicans don't talk about it. We are the ones that have done great on affordability. They've done horribly on affordability. I don't want to hear about the affordability, talk about it. That is someone who knows about talk. But whether he's all talk is the question that voters are pushing to him. He was a member of the media, whatever you want to call it, an entertainer, a reality show host for many years. He looks at what just happened and sees it as a communications issue. We talked about it before, but we're not talking about it the right way now. And I will just say as fairly as we can, this is not an issue about talking. It's about doing. It's about whether the government is working for you or whether it's shut down indefinitely because the people in charge and Republicans control both political branches, either can't get it done or don't want to support healthcare during these economic tough times, both of which appear to be losing messages, at least in the places that we got a vote on Tuesday as well as in the polling. Trump's making misleading claims about gas, it's over $3. Trump claims on inflation don't add up. Grocery prices still going up, increasing by over a point this year. And then over on FOX News, some of the coverage is here on Planet Earth. Take a look.
- [06:28]
Emily Bazelon
Prices are up in the United States. For coffee, it's up almost 20%. Utility up 11.7%. And then electricity is up 5.1%. And vehicle repair, if you need your car fixed, it's up 11.5%.
- [06:46]
Ari Melber
Count it up. Numbers don't lie. Those are actual numbers about the economic problems coupled with Tuesday's actual numbers about the voter's response. Now, Zoran Momdani has campaigned on this and we had him on this program on election eve and he put it very concisely in our rapid fire lightning round. A reason conservatives are welcome in your Democratic Party is they also have to pay rent. Simple as that. They have to pay rent. And I'm going to show you in a minute what Obama said about having an open and big tent that includes centrists, military veterans, people with different economic ideas, as well as what you heard from there, the Democratic socialists. Now, Trump has long bragged that he's a billionaire, even before, according to Forbes, he was one. This year, though, he is making real money, not just talking about hundreds of millions of dollars in crypto that we know about, which presents a huge conflict of interest. He used to call crypto a scam. Now his family makes the money off it. He threw a tone deaf Great Gatsby party flaunting wealth while people are struggling and hurting more under his shutdown. Forbes reports that there is another issue of greed as Trump is selling Trump branded wine at government stores, even Coast Guard supermarkets in the Virginia area. Who knows if many of those voters who dealt Republicans a double digit loss had seen the gauche wine, which unlike great Grapes, doesn't seem to be aging well. I'm joined by Jason Johnson, who is known to love a political wine metaphor. He's an MSNBC analyst. And Michelle Goldberg, a columnist at the New York Times. She chasing unlike us New York Times writers, way too classy to go along with my terrible Friday humor. Welcome to both of you. Happy Friday.
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Michelle Goldberg
Thanks, Ari.
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Jason Johnson
Happy Friday, Ori.
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Ari Melber
Great to have you. I'm joking about my jokes, but whether or not anybody clocked those wine bottles, Michelle, they seem like a kind of a can't help himself small grift dwarfed by the much more significant large grifts we've covered. At a time where this week after losing Trump now says they got to talk more about affordability, I will open with a simple question. I gave mom Donnie some complex and simple questions. The question is, is talking about it enough if people are hurting?
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Michelle Goldberg
Well, I think we saw with Joe Biden that the attempt to kind of tell people no, you might think the economy is actually bad, but it's actually good. Even when in that case there was some reality behind it, it still doesn't work. Right. And it still, I think it underlines particular danger for Trump is that to him the solution to voters economic woes was simply the fact of having him in the White House. You know, kind of according to his own way of seeing the world, he is in the White House, ergo, the economy is great. And so he can't really admit to himself that there's any problem. He can't even pretend, as I think a normal politician would do, to empathize with the pain of his own voters. That's why you hear him say things like I don't want to hear about affordability. I mean, had Joe Biden ever said anything like that, it would be dominating the political conversation for weeks. You also in that kind of list of the various ways that Trump is flaunting his corruption, I think a big one and one that there's some evidence that has stuck with voters was the demolition of the east wing of the White House. Right. So people can see what his priorities are and kind of what he's doing with the power of his office.
- [10:33]
Ari Melber
Yeah. As you say, that was about him and the rush, the urgency to set up the crypto operations or mess with what is still a public building supported by the public is a very different priority than the other things. Your thoughts? Jason?
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Jason Johnson
Yeah. I mean, Donald Trump has never been an empathetic guy. Right. He doesn't feel your pain. He doesn't care. He doesn't talk about bread and butter issues. He's always been, my leadership is going to make everything better for you. And what we saw in these elections is that people at a local level who show empathy, they do better. And whether you're talking about a mayor in Cleveland or a mayor in Pittsburgh or a mayor in New York or public service commissioners in Georgia, people who are able to say, hey, I recognize that your power bill has gone up six times in the last three years, hey, I recognize that lamb and rice has gotten more expensive. I can make it cheaper. Those people resonate a lot better with regular voters and swing voters, as much as I don't believe in them as anything Donald Trump has ever said. And the entire Republican Party probably needs to learn this lesson, but they won't.
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Ari Melber
Obama's remarks today, I told viewers we're going to get to more of them. And this is not the breaking news of him even speaking out, which he doesn't always do, but with the wind at his back. MICHELLE he's citing evidence, which is his style. He was a great pretty, a celebrated writer and lawyer before he was a president. So he prefers to make the argument after a win than perhaps a week ago that the Democrats could do well with centrists and veterans and Imam Donnie We've heard a different set of arguments from some members of the party and I've mentioned our reporting. Mamdani has a record, including remarks that he had to address in New York City, let alone in other places. But listen to how Obama put it. I'm curious your view of this. The big tent argument renewed at a time of polarization.
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Jason Johnson
Tuesday was nice, but we've got a lot of work to do.
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Michelle Goldberg
And.
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Jason Johnson
Your task is going to be not to, not to impose, you know, litmus tests. We had Abigail Spanberger win and we had Zohran Mandami win.
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Michelle Goldberg
And they are all part of a.
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Jason Johnson
Vision for the future.
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Michelle Goldberg
Michelle well, either you want a big tent or you don't. I mean, centrists and kind of people who want the Democratic Party to be more congenial to conservatives will often say they want a big tent. And I think that that's the right approach. You're obviously not going to run Zoran Mamdan type candidate outside of a big liberal city. But a big tent doesn't just mean that you open up your tent to the right. And I also am not sure that there's a lot of voters who don't necessarily, who don't really see politics on a left right continuum because Zoran Mamdani almost certainly won some Trump voters. Right. There are kind of also just anti system voters who are going to be more reachable by a candidate like Mamdani than a candidate like Spanberger. So the, I mean, it's so obvious that almost, you know, there's almost no point in it seems strange to even articulate it that you run everywhere and you run people who match the locales they come from.
- [14:07]
Ari Melber
Jason Obama is a skilled communicator. I've pointed out that he and Chuck Schumer had the same technical position going into Tuesday and that both had withheld their potential endorsement of the New York nominee who had beat Cuomo, who'd won a Democratic nomination. Parties exist to coalesce around people. The voters in that area had picked a person and they both withheld and yet Obama, because maybe this is what makes him Obama, is how much he Obamas. He had found a way to withhold the endorsement to validate the concerns. And there are there, I mentioned there were some, while still having a glide path to credibly say what I just showed you today. Schumer, the New York Times says is at risk of being left behind, did not come off as warmly, although we can report he also had a phone call with Mamdani and they have the same, you know, constituency in New York City. So what do you see there in Obama sort of threading the needle. He mentioned two candidates by name. He'd only actually endorsed one of them, but he's signaling something.
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Jason Johnson
The thing about Obama is that he is a great talent evaluator when he's not sure about somebody. Like he held off on Vice President Harris because he wasn't quite sure he likes Josh Shapiro. He sees the talent in Mamdani. And I, I, I, I think people need to understand this. Mamdani is a unique talent. This guy went from number one spice to I run New York in like 10 years. Not many people can pull that off. You, you can't get a mom, Donnie, to just show up in Richmond and show up in Baltimore and show up in Washington, D.C. and Barack Obama recognizes that when you have that once in a generation talent, that person should be supported. Mamdani didn't need Obama's endorsement in order to win, but Barack Obama recognizes that for him to stay relevant, he needs to make sure he shows up for somebody like that, Michelle?
- [16:02]
Michelle Goldberg
Well, I would also say that, you know, although Obama didn't endorse Mamdani, there was reporting that he's been talking to Mamdani, that he's been impressed by him, that he's been encouraging him. So his position has been very different than Schumer, who's been much colder.
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Ari Melber
Let you finish, but let me just jump in. That's sort of the nuance I'm referencing. Your outlet had that reporting on that. And so Obama seemed to want people to know, unlike Schumer, who withheld and just left it there. Obama leaked or encouraged the idea that they were talking like you're saying, and then we'll see. And we all know if it ended differently on Tuesday, we wouldn't be talking about this mayor. So he sort of, I allow you to build on that point, Michelle. But he did sort of find a middle ground that not only Schumer, I'm not only isolating him, he happens to be the leader, but other Democrats might want to consider. Can you criticize something you're concerned about while not suggesting the person didn't win the nomination?
- [17:04]
Michelle Goldberg
Well, I don't think that Schumer ever denied that he won the nomination, but he did sort of suggest that he was beyond the pale. I mean, look, Chuck Schumer is someone who told my colleague, one of my colleagues, that his job was to, quote, keep the left pro Israel. And if, if he's assigned that job to himself, he's kind of manifestly failed. But it's not surprising that he could support Mamdani. It's just the problem is, is that Mamdani's position is much closer now to the kind of median Democratic position, particularly in the wake of the war in Gaza, than Schumer's is. And there is just so much anger among the Democratic grassroots right now towards a leadership that they see as being kind of weak and feckless in the face of Trump's assault on, you know, basically everything that that of value in this country. And, you know, so you look, there's polls that show, you know, overwhelming majorities of Democrats want new congressional leadership. And so, you know, the party Mamdani is in some, you know, Mamdani support. Look, Mamdani didn't win by the sort of margins that Abigail Spanberger or Mikey Sherrill won by. At the same time, I think that the energy in the party is desperate for new and anti establishment voices like him.
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Ari Melber
Yeah, you make several important points. The margins are hard to square because Andrew Cuomo spent his life saying he would fight Donald Trump. And Republicans certainly made that message clear in Covid and that Democrats should honor the nomination process. And in the moment, it, it hurt Cuomo. And I think the voters noticed this. He ran again. I mean, there are states and localities where it's a, it's actually illegal to do what Cuomo did, which is try to win a nomination, lose and run again. And so the, the total vote, I would guess. I'll let you respond. Michelle in New York is hard to square because you basically had a lifelong Democrat also running in the general but then getting a Trump endorsement. So it all got really hard to measure.
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Michelle Goldberg
Right. I mean, I think that if Mamdani had just been running a kind of straight up race against a Republican, you know, against Curtis Sliwa, then the margins would have been pretty overwhelming. I think in a lot of people's minds, it was a choice between two Democrats.
- [19:24]
Ari Melber
Yeah, I think that's well put. And that, yeah, it's funky. And again, this is, we're in the weeds. But hey, the Democrats are looking in the weeds and a lot of what they're finding is cross tabs that, that are encouraging for the midterm. So it's, it is interesting a couple days later to sift through it. Jason, I want to also, both of you stay. Jason, I want to ask you about this Democratic move today on the shutdown. So that's when we come back. We also have our south park moment tonight. It is Friday going into the weekend, and you cannot believe how tough they're getting on the White House renovation. We'll show you that Trump officials also facing headwinds in court. But next, the government shut down a possible solution. Our panelists respond in 90 seconds.
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Ari Melber
So if you're traveling for Thanksgiving, you might want to leave now. Yeah, unfortunately. Maybe time to try your new favorite airline, the bus. As of now, the best way to travel for Thanksgiving will be grabbing a Macy's balloon and hoping for wind.
- [21:54]
Jason Johnson
Take me home, SpongeBob.
- [21:59]
Ari Melber
They got jokes about something that is no laughing matter if you are stuck at the airport, whether that's for work, pleasure, or ultimately the busiest day of the year to travel Thanksgiving. This government shutdown is well known now in the culture. Trump can see the problem. He's actually specifically blamed the shutdown for what looks like a wider rejection of his policies on Tuesday. He may have wanted to narrow it to that something that he thinks involves Congress and frankly, the other party. Millions of Americans are now heading to food banks more than usual because they're not getting food benefits from the government. Trump's administration is still fighting in court to deny people food assistance after losing. We have more on that. Hundreds of flights canceled and more delayed. Take a look. Stress and staffing shortages among air traffic controllers as the government shutdown continues. We will cancel a flight as long as the government requires us to.
- [22:51]
Emily Bazelon
Denver canceled.
- [22:52]
Ari Melber
No other flights available.
- [22:53]
Michelle Goldberg
I am absolutely crashing out over the fact that I have to change my flight or else I do not know if I'm going to get home.
- [22:58]
Jason Johnson
Food pantries are so overwhelmed tonight. There's so much demand and not enough supply.
- [23:03]
Michelle Goldberg
With the government being shut down and my husband not being paid, we're going to have double the families, but the donations are down across the board because of uncertainty. I went to the food bank for the first time ever. I feel like a failure because I.
- [23:18]
Emily Bazelon
Can'T feed all my children.
- [23:23]
Ari Melber
Back with our guest, Jason. That's how it's playing out. While Democrats are telling the government and really the public, if the new offer is, if, if you'll just do a year of health care and we can deal with the debate later, we can reopen everything. Your view.
- [23:41]
Jason Johnson
I mean, from a messaging standpoint, as cold as that may sound, it's a brilliant move by Chuck Schumer, and I don't think anyone has uttered that sentence in months. I mean, this puts this squarely on the shoulders of the Republican Party that they're not willing to reopen the government just to fund health care for a year. It's literally kicking the can down the road until the midterm elections. But, all right, I think that the deeper issue is this, this kind of economic disruption isn't going to be magically solved. Even if the government were to reopen next week. You've got people who are behind in bills, you've got people who are going to start getting eviction notices, you've got people who can't pay tuition. This is a crisis in the making and a crisis that's been ongoing by the Republican Party. The Democrats have a better idea, they have a better position, and Trump is leading his party to ruin.
- [24:28]
Ari Melber
Michelle.
- [24:30]
Michelle Goldberg
Well, I think that the election show pretty definitively. I mean, the polling has also showed that voters are blaming Republicans for the shutdown, and I think that the election affirmed that. So, I mean, as kind of brutal and gutting as this is for so many people, it would be malpractice for Democrats to fold without getting something substantial for, I mean, not just their voters, but for voters in general. There's no reason that all of this should have been for nothing when even the president acknowledges that this shutdown is hurting him, even as he kind of shows very little urgency or flexibility in trying to end it.
- [25:14]
Ari Melber
Democrat Chris Murphy was talking about all of this from the halls of Congress. Take a look. I think there's a real gravity to what happened on Tuesday. The electorate spoke really clearly. Voters were telling Democrats they want us to stand up for what we believe in, and they want us to use our power.
- [25:33]
Jason Johnson
Don't ruin people's lives as we head into the holidays. So we need a negotiation.
- [25:41]
Ari Melber
Jason.
- [25:44]
Jason Johnson
Ari, at this point, not just after the election, but the numbers of people who are suffering, the numbers of people who aren't going to get SNAP benefits, the people who are just read a story about teachers abroad at military bases who aren't getting their pay and they don't know how they're going to be able to get home. The Democrats are not just wise hold their position, frankly, at this point, I would, I would be the wire. Yesterday's price ain't today's price. I would be going back and saying, look, we offered you this. We're going to ask for more. Because if you're going to be that recalcitrant, why should we hold back? Why shouldn't we just make it abundantly clear what the American people actually need? If the Republicans were smart, they would cut a deal and, and pay for Obamacare subsidies for three years, just push it off to the 2020 great election. But as long as this keeps going on, their party will continue to fail. And even if the government opens back up, people are going to blame them for this. And they're still going to be married, they're still going to be angry by next fall's midterm elections.
- [26:36]
Ari Melber
Hmm. I want to show some of the headlines for Mike Johnson, Michelle, because he's trying to play this a certain way. But as it grinds on, you see, what's the point? He won't bring the House back. He refuses to promise a vote on the Obamacare subsidies, which is, of course the issue. Maybe some Republicans could defect mtg, who's often seen as coming from the right, calling him out. You know, we haven't had any person be a long term Republican speaker and they have a narrow margin. I'm curious now that we're kind of a year into this experiment under the new Trump era, what you think?
- [27:13]
Michelle Goldberg
You know, I have never been one of these people that thinks that everything is about the Epstein files, but I really do think that that has something to do with him not wanting to call the House back into session. Right. As soon as he calls the House back into session and has to swear in the new Representative Gavalja from Arizona, they're going to have enough votes to pass the discharge petition to release the Epstein files. And so I can't think of another good reason for him to do what he's doing. Because, I mean, everything else aside, just the optics of it, the optics of saying we're not going to work, you know, we expect all these other people to work without getting paid, but we're going to refuse. It's just so bad.
- [28:07]
Ari Melber
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's not unlike great Gatsby parties. It's almost just galling that they are taking what is for them paid time off because they're not holding votes and they're not meeting up and they're not even pretending to gather and vote on what could be the negotiated solution. As you say while other people work without pay and go to food banks. It's really something. But Tuesday shows that the voters have something to say about it as well. Jason and Michelle, thank you both on a range of topics. Interesting stuff. Coming up, we will show you how south park is taking no prisoners. They have millions of viewers and in their own funny way they say Trump is dead wrong to demolish abolish the East Wing. Also, the setbacks for Trump in the courts on what has been one of the worst weeks of his second term. We have that with Emily Bazelon next.
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- [30:32]
Ari Melber
There'S really no doubt that this week was Donald Trump's worst week yet in his first term. It signaled a rejection of his agenda, panic for Republicans, and an onboard to a midterms and lame duck future that could hurt him. It's also been a bad week for him in court over the shutdown issues that hurt him in Virginia and elsewhere. On Tuesday So it's all a bit related. But a judge is sparring with Trump over the fate of those food benefits the administration folded in a way. They say they'll make the November funds available by the end of the day under the judge's order, but they're also appealing it. So they are following the law. We can report that while still taking the position that they want the government to try extra hard to deny people these benefits. The judge stated that the Trump administration basically violated the prior order that they, quote, did nothing to ensure the food benefits would be delivered on time during this week when they've been busy with these other problems. The vice president suggests the problem here is the judge. It's an absurd ruling because you have a federal judge effectively telling us what we have to do in the midst of a Democrat government shutdown. We're not going to do it under the orders of a federal judge. We're going to do it according to what we think we have to do to comply with the law. Of course, what you hear there is another statement where it sounds like someone thinks they are the final word on the law. Judge also admonishing ICE agents for their use of force in Chicago, again part of the pushback this week, noting it shocks the conscience what some agents were caught doing and government officials had repeatedly lied about their tactics as well as the actions of the protesters that they were sometimes basically attacking with tear gas and other measures that the judges concerned were excessive. We're waiting on an Oregon judge to decide whether Trump violated the law with the entire deployment of the guard there. Trump faces a backlash over the way he's deployed both soldiers and the feds, including multiple cities that are facing a level of basically now ongoing military style oversight for no actual reason that the administration has been able to justify in court. Then you have New York City, where they have a new Democratic socialist mayor elect. And that could raise a lot of tension because the Trump administration also is looking at an immigration crack down there. So a lot going on. The political headlines of what the voters are rejecting are backed up by some of what the judges are concerned about. The New York Times Emily Bazelon joins me as our special legal guest on all of this next. We are back on the Friday cap in quite a week. Many setbacks for Donald Trump in court, from ICE agent conduct and enforcement to the ongoing food benefits clash in the shutdown. And we're joined by Emily Bazelon, the New York Times Magazine legal writer. Happy Friday, Emily. How are you?
- [33:31]
Emily Bazelon
Hey, I'm pretty good, Ari. Nice to be here.
- [33:35]
Ari Melber
Great to have you. It was a big week on the elections. That's obviously driven a lot of news. We like to have you, especially on Fridays. And then I heard you would only talk law, not the elections. So here we are. We built this whole segment for you. What do you see in the courts this week at a time where there do seem to be headwinds against the administration?
- [33:52]
Emily Bazelon
Yeah. We've seen at this point, more than 100 judges rule against the Trump administration's policies of mandatory detention for people who ICE picks up and just increasing, I think, dismay from judges about the tactics that ICE is using on the street. We've now seen this, you know, in Portland, in Washington, in Chicago, where the administration comes in and they make assertions in court, and then witnesses come and talk about what's actually happening. And those two things are really different from each other. And the judges can see it. And this judge who we saw this week ruling on Chicago said that the government was lying. In particular that the ICE official who's supposed to be in charge said that he got hit with a rock before he threw canisters of tear gas. And that just wasn't true from the video. So this idea of the judges really scrutinizing the facts on the ground and testing the administration's claims, it's so important. I mean, Ari, as you know, courts are for finding facts. That's what judges do. And you can really see them upholding that standard. And it does not go well so far for the Trump administration when they do that.
- [35:08]
Ari Melber
Right. And this, this DOJ is strained in more than one way. It's defending what sometimes look like long shot or losing cases. And that's always been the DOJ's job, as long as they don't violate their oaths. When they have a government to defend in court while they're on offense, with very flimsy cases against Trump's opponents, and then you have the question of their overall credibility. There is a deference in many cases, especially national security, that judges give, and yet you just remind everyone why they're blowing that up. And if that continues, you get to the Supreme Court. And even apart from who appointed whom, you may have more skepticism on the rationale. The ICE agents are obviously busy. Here's a headline that the detainee population is now at a record high, and it's up 70% since January, since Mr. Trump took office. They note the previous high was in his first term in 19, when they held 56,000 detainees. I mention that because this is Something that came up when I interviewed Stephen Miller and others before they came back into office. They view this partly as a messaging effort that you have to do more so that it's harder to be here or get in here or stay here. But at the end of the day, those numbers are also striking because you are not going to change the national labor force when the number is 50 or 70,000.
- [36:30]
Emily Bazelon
That's right. I mean, there's always this kind of push and pull with immigration. Right. And as long as there are jobs here and people can work those jobs whether they have documents or not, not people are going to want to come. Now, it is true that there are far fewer people crossing the border, but what the Trump administration is trying to do is to get people to leave. And there's just a limited amount that even tens of thousands of people in detention is going to accomplish when people are still working. And, of course, there is a kind of broader solution to all of this that Congress has not yet agreed on. But if you have more people who have permits to work here legally, then they can work those jobs legally. And that is one way of just sort of straightening out these dynamics. But instead, we have this current situation where we have no comprehensive immigration reform, and then we have these really quite brutal tactics on the ground that are being used against people.
- [37:27]
Ari Melber
Yeah, yeah. It's really striking. I want to show another headline. We've talked about the law firms and universities, Rachel, in our coverage this week, and others pointed out that if Trump's kind of popularity has been overstated and his political power has been overstated and they're losing elections in a year from now, things could look very different then. Striking, expensive long term deals under this framework may just be bad tactics separate from whether you think it's right. Cornell University reached a $60 million deal with Trump to restore its funding. They were going to pay the government 30 million over three years and then invest in research that strengthens US agriculture. Full disclosure, I happen to go to Cornell, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't criticize them. When I was there, some of the law school courses were too long, in my opinion, Emily. And I'm not sure that they timed this very well, although their argument is they've got a lot of work to do and they didn't want to have to start firing people who would have become collateral damage. So I want to fairly report that. But what do you think about the timing of this? Is this really, after Tuesday, a time to give in?
- [38:34]
Emily Bazelon
Well, it's going to land with A thud after Tuesday. I'm sure it's something they've been working on for a long time. You know, one thing that is striking about this agreement, as opposed to the agreement with Columbia and the beginning of these settlements, Columbia agreed to have an outside monitor really overseeing its compliance. And I think a lot of people at Columbia worried that the university was giving away some of its independence. You don't see Cornell doing that. So that's a distinction. You do, however, see Cornell agreeing to train its whole staff on the Trump administration's ideas about DEI and also over a lot of data about admissions. And I think, you know, some of that data the Justice Department is going to require of all the schools. But when you get into really detailed data about race and the place places kids come from and grades and SAT scores, that is, you know, potentially going to make it. It's going to be a disincentive for universities to continue to think about diversity in a holistic way if they're worried about the government looking over their shoulder through the whole process.
- [39:45]
Ari Melber
Appreciate the details. Good nuance. And Emily, have a great weekend. Thanks for joining us.
- [39:50]
Emily Bazelon
You too, Ari. Thanks a lot.
- [39:52]
Ari Melber
Absolutely. I gotta tell you, we tell you what's coming up. You do not want to miss what we're going to show you next because this unpopular renovation was roasted along with Epstein and a lot more in an episode of South Park. You gotta see this shutdown is hitting the most vulnerable among us in our nation heading into this weekend and then the holidays, many going without food because food benefits have been halted and Trump wants them to continue without food while the administration is appealing court orders that would require people actually get their food benefits. But instead of that, the administration's plowing ahead with the East Wing demolition to create this ballroom. And that's the real world news over in south park, the cartoon comedy land, they are keeping up with the news almost in real time and slamming all of this. I want to show Democrats slamming the president over these priorities.
- [40:52]
Michelle Goldberg
This guy wants to create a ballroom for his rich friends while completely turning.
- [40:58]
Emily Bazelon
A blind eye to the fact that.
- [41:00]
Michelle Goldberg
Babies are going to stop starve when the snap benefits end in just hours from now. Come on.
- [41:08]
Ari Melber
That's Real World Democrats, of course. Kamala Harris, who says she warned about this. South Park's cartoon comedy has been relentlessly mocking Donald Trump and his aides personally, also going on policy. And here they are on this. Okay, so then over here is where you're gonna have the big golden pillars that you guys wanted.
- [41:41]
Michelle Goldberg
Oh, yeah, that's Right. Okay.
- [41:44]
Ari Melber
And then right over here is where we're gonna put your dance floor. If you notice Satan in the picture, the cartoon imagines Trump in a kind of a tryst with the Lord of Darkness. They also go after AG Bondi and others, including real world references to alleged corruption.
- [42:09]
Michelle Goldberg
Restless spirit. We only wish to communicate deception. Deception.
- [42:23]
Ari Melber
Maybe we should stop this. No.
- [42:25]
Michelle Goldberg
I want to hear what it has to say. No, no.
- [42:31]
Ari Melber
You're right. Let's stop this. The cartoon version of Donald Trump also doesn't want the news if it's bad. And then they take something that Americans are still learning about. The length that this administration is going to profit off. Crypto. And they mock that.
- [42:51]
Michelle Goldberg
There'S an opportunity to truly make your voices heard. Introducing the south park sucks Now. Cryptocurrency coin. This digital meme token is your way to be a part of the fastest growing community in America. This used to be a great town before all the politics came and ruined it all. Get in on our crypto meme coin with this incredible presale offer.
- [43:09]
Jason Johnson
Yes.
- [43:12]
Michelle Goldberg
Yes, I'm with the south park section now. Crypto currency. We're trying to a bunch of people out of their money. Is Don junior around?
- [43:19]
Ari Melber
Ah, yes. He's been expecting you. South park imagines a world where the government is colluding with greedy people that cheat you out of your own money and sell you bad ideas and worthless crypto. But is it just a cartoon? We'll be right back. All right. You gotta see this. And the only thing you need to know is what you probably already know from this week. Suddenly Democrats have a spring in their step. Donald Trump is on defense. All of pop culture seems to have registered what went down on Tuesday. And top Democrat California Gov. Gavin Newsom is going back into his playbook, quoting the ever popular Taylor Swift to make new references that basically dunk on Donald Trump.
- [44:13]
Michelle Goldberg
I was your father figure.
- [44:15]
Emily Bazelon
We drank that brown liquor.
- [44:18]
Michelle Goldberg
You made a deal with this devil. Turns out my bigger. You wanna fight, you found it.
- [44:28]
Ari Melber
You wanna fight, you found it. Taylor goes on to say, I got the place surrounded. A reference to knowing how to win when you outnumber the opposition. Which apparently Democrat Gavin Newsom feels he clearly does. His team is turning the tables on Trump using the Internet. That was a real social post they did. And a feel for how to get people talking to tell Donald Trump he's losing. And Gavin Newsom is the bigger political figure, almost a father figure. That's how we sign off tonight. Have a great weekend. I'll see you Monday. At 6pm Eastern.
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