Trump Claims He Has "Much More Power" in Second Term

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Beat with Ari Melber
Episode: Trump Claims He Has "Much More Power" in Second Term
Date: March 20, 2026
Host: Ari Melber (MSNBC)
Key Guests: Howard Dean (former Vermont Governor and DNC Chair), Ty Cobb (former White House attorney), Jack Coyne (Track Star host), Gus Wenner (Rolling Stone magazine executive chairman)

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode dissects the consequences of Donald Trump’s ongoing war in Iran, the resulting economic shocks, and the growing domestic dissatisfaction over the war’s cost and impact. It examines Trump’s claims of holding increased power in his second term and the dangers posed by his administration’s approach to executive authority. The episode further pivots to the cultural influence of music in divisive times, featuring a discussion with the creators of the viral music game show “Track Star.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. War in Iran and Economic Fallout

[00:57] – [09:35]

• Escalation & Lack of Clarity: The war in Iran, entering its third week, remains undefined in terms of objectives or an endpoint. The cost spirals upwards (Pentagon requesting $200 billion), even as domestic needs go unmet.
• Economic Shocks: Major disruptions to global oil supply—oil prices hitting $180/barrel—risk driving the US into recession. Fires at refineries in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia exacerbate the crisis.
• Political Blowback:
  • Key MAGA Republican Lauren Boebert dissents from war spending, criticizing the “industrial war complex.”

    “I am a no on any war supplementals... I am tired of spending money elsewhere.” – (Lauren Boebert clip, paraphrased by Ari, [01:51])

  • Public opposition is high—only 7% would support escalation on the ground.
  • Contrast in “America First” Rhetoric: MAGA’s anti-war roots seem at odds with Trump’s choices.
• Democratic Strategy: Howard Dean points to economic pain and hypocrisy:

  “The public is not stupid. They understand Trump is looking to spend huge amounts of money, some of which is going into his own pocket... on a war that nobody asked for, nobody wanted. Most Americans don’t support, including many Republicans.” ([06:34])

2. Gas Prices, Voter Sentiment, and Political Messaging

[05:21] – [10:14]

• Voter Disillusionment: TikTok clips and in-studio calls reflect voters’ anger.

  “Another day where we don’t have money for healthcare, but we do have money for war.” – Anonymous voter, clip ([05:39])

• Past Trump voters express deep regret and self-critique.

  “You are a worthless pile of—”
  “And you voted for him how many times?”
  “Three times.”
  “That was my bad. Apparently I’m an idiot.” ([07:34])

• Dean’s Advice for Democrats: Focus on bread-and-butter issues and hope over hate.

  “We’re not touching people where they need to be touched... Democrats need to be the party of hope, and we need to focus on what ordinary Americans are walking.” ([08:05])

3. Rise of Grassroots Protest & Trust in Leaders

[10:14] – [14:10]

• No Kings Protests: Inspired in part by Robert De Niro, these mass actions indicate dissatisfaction with “authoritarian” trends.

  “No one voted for new wars. No one voted for higher prices at the pump... No one voted for deporting our good neighbors. And no one voted for government-masked thugs shooting down our citizens in the streets.” – Ari Melber, [10:23]

• Dean connects current protests with Vietnam-era activism: Lying leaders drive movements:

  “I was against the Iraq war... because the government just plain lied to us. And now we have a situation where the President of the United States and his administration lies every single day to the American people.” ([11:24])

4. Trump’s Authoritarian Moves and “More Power” Claim

[17:32] – [28:09]

• DOJ’s ongoing actions against universities (Harvard antisemitism probe) and former officials (Comey, Powell) are contrasted with repeated judicial rebukes.

  “I have much more power in my second term, don’t you think?... I don’t know if I could have gotten away with this [in my first term].” – Donald Trump, quoted ([18:24])

• Expert Analysis—Ty Cobb: Trump’s claims reflect expanding authoritarian intent, not legal reality:

  “The Constitution limits presidential power to the extent that Congress has a spine and the courts can enforce it. But he’s certainly exercising his power in a way that makes him seem as though he can get away with anything, which is what he suggests.” ([20:07])

• Weaponization of Loyalty: DOJ lawsuits and firings for lack of Trump loyalty are eroding due process:

  “Patel fired every Iranian counterterrorism expert. How safe does that make America? It is ridiculous what’s going on and not American.” – Ty Cobb, [21:36]

• Failure Rate: Many Trump-initiated prosecutions are failing or being quashed in courts.

5. Breakdown of DOJ Norms & Legal Checks

[28:13] – [34:19]

• Ari highlights courtroom clashes, especially around unqualified, unconfirmed DOJ “temp” prosecutors (Alina Haba).

  “It was quite an unusual heated clash.” ([29:50])

• The courts are increasingly frustrated with the “dumbing down of DOJ” and persistent violations of appointment rules.

  “We’ve got a bunch of Trump loyalists being appointed around the country, six of whom have been disqualified by the courts... Pam Bondi, in her rabid, trashy way... is just playing games...”—Ty Cobb ([31:45])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [03:34] Steve Bannon: “It’s rattling, whether you like it or not... the world's economy and President Trump's economic plan.”
• [06:34] Howard Dean: "If the Democrats vote for what Trump wants after healthcare dies, I think they're as good as toast."
• [08:05] Howard Dean: “Democrats need to be the party of hope, and we need to focus on what ordinary Americans are walking.”
• [10:14] Howard Dean: “No one voted for new wars... higher prices at the pump... for the government masked thugs shooting down our citizens in the streets.”
• [18:24] Donald Trump: “I have much more power in my second term, don’t you think?”
• [20:07] Ty Cobb: “It’s refreshing to see him [Trump] acknowledging his authoritarian bent. And that’s clearly what he did. He feels more powerful, but he truthfully doesn’t have any more power.”
• [21:36] Ty Cobb: “Patel fired every Iranian counterterrorism expert. How safe does that make America? It is ridiculous what’s going on and not American.”
• [31:45] Ty Cobb: “Let me go to 30,000ft... what you have is the dumbing down of DOJ... [with] a bunch of Trump loyalists being appointed around the country, six of whom have been disqualified by the courts, including Haba... Pam Bondi in her rabid, trashy way... is just playing games with the courts.”

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Music, Culture, and Cross-Generational Unity

[36:09] – [45:46]

• Track Star Segment: Amid politics, Ari Melber highlights how music brings unity.
• Guests: Jack Coyne (Track Star host), Gus Wenner (Rolling Stone) discuss the viral show’s appeal and new partnership.
• Key Insights:
  • The show’s realness comes from spontaneity (no previewed song lists, authentic reactions).

    “It was a blast since day one... blew my mind the opportunity that we’ve had to speak with some of the biggest legends in music.” – Jack Coyne ([38:56])

  • Music As Leveler:

    “You could be the most powerful person or have nothing and hear ‘Stand by Me’ on the street... and you can have the same reaction. That is so unifying, so universal.” – Gus Wenner ([43:59])

  • Music's resilience compared to the challenges facing film/theaters.
  • Dream guests mentioned: Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr, Bruce Springsteen, Jay-Z.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:57 – Start of substantive content; overview of Iran war, its economic impact.
• 01:51 – Boebert’s anti-war statement; split within GOP on war funding.
• 03:34 – Steve Bannon acknowledges economic fallout.
• 04:38 – 09:35 – Howard Dean on economic, political costs for the GOP.
• 07:34 – Voter regret: “You are a worthless pile of—. That was my bad... I’m an idiot.”
• 08:05 – Dean’s advice to Democrats: focus on working-class economic pain.
• 10:14 – “No Kings” protests, generational parallels.
• 11:24 – Dean connects leader dishonesty to civic unrest.
• 17:32 – Trump’s DOJ targets Harvard, Comey; discussion shifts to executive power.
• 18:24 – Trump: “I have much more power in my second term...”
• 20:07 – Ty Cobb: Trump’s claim is “authoritarian,” limited by constitutional checks.
• 21:36 – DOJ firing counterterrorism experts risks national security; loyalty litmus tests.
• 28:13 – Clash over DOJ appointments; legal guardrails against temp prosecutors.
• 31:45 – The “dumbing down” of DOJ and judicial frustration.
• 36:09 – Track Star segment introduction; the power of music.
• 39:08 – Rolling Stone’s Gus Wenner on music’s lasting impact.
• 42:53 – Explaining the organic joy and cross-generational appeal of music.
• 45:22 – Coyne’s dream guests and personal update.

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Takeaways

• Authoritarian Drift: Trump’s open claims to greater power and DOJ maneuvers signal a constitutional crisis but also consistent legal pushback via the courts.
• Economic & Political Risks: The Iran war’s rising costs and public discontent pose major challenges for both parties, especially Republicans.
• Grassroots Energy: Anti-war and “No Kings” protests are building rapidly, calling for honest leadership and realignment with popular priorities.
• Music Uplift: Even in tense political climates, shared cultural experiences like music remain a source of unity and relief, as highlighted in the “Track Star” segment.

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This summary strives to capture the depth, tone, and flow of Ari Melber’s rapid-fire, fact-driven analysis while spotlighting the candid perspectives of guests and the major issues dominating the political and cultural conversation.

Transcript

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[Ari Melbourne]

Welcome to the Beat. I'm Ari Melbourne. We begin with Trump's war in Iran. The fighting has intensified here, reaching 21 days. U.S. central Command has released this video of the ongoing strikes. These are of Iranian military targets. The US Also grapples with diminishing Iranian forces in the Strait of Hormuz. Iran's assault has paralyzed the flow of oil through what is one of the world's key arteries for energy. At home, we've seen confusion because Donald Trump and his aides have not clarified even three weeks in what the war is for and therefore when we would have achieved it. And you have the cost. The Pentagon wants $200 billion, the kind of bill that goes up, not down. Some Republicans are balking at that price tag. There are new doubts about how all of this will play out in the midterms. Many concerned about the impact of an unpopular war. Even Trump allies drawing a line

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I

[Ari Melbourne]

will not vote for a war supplemental. No. I am a no. I've already told leadership I am a no on any war supplementals. I am so tired of spending money elsewhere. I I am tired of the industrial war complex getting all of our hard earned tax dollars. I have folks in Colorado who can't afford to live. We need America first policies right now and that I'm not doing that. You hear that term America first, which has broadly been understood to mean not starting new wars that are not of a national necessity and not jacking up prices and costs on people in America that they come first. That's how Boebert puts it, which is a contrast to her much beloved MAGA president, who by her standard there isn't doing the America first thing polling shows the war remains unpopular. 7% of Americans would want an escalation of boots on the ground. Iran has also hit a Saudi refinery on the Red Sea. There's fires burning in Kuwait, where two oil refineries have gone up in flames. The economic fallout is already serious. Bloomberg reports that just three weeks into the war, we have now frozen a fifth of the world's oil supply under the Trump policy. They call it a historic oil crisis. Saudi Arabia sees oil prices as high as $180 a barrel. That is a price at which the Wall Street Journal warns you would get into causing just from the energy problems, a spillover into a national recession. Longtime MAGA leader Steve Bannon saying this

[Howard Dean]

and it's rattling, whether you like it or not, whether you support President Trump or not, it's rattling the world's economy and President Trump's economic plan.

[Ari Melbourne]

This is not, this is not going well. The American people do not understand what's going on. The American people have assessed what's going on. Donald Trump says he'll do things in a very different way, but the way he's doing it, breaking with all foreign policy methods, not working with allies, not going to Congress, not presenting to the public the rationale and then changing it as he goes, has the public already catching on? This war is unpopular. The prices are obviously of a concern. And the idea that Trump could somehow end it quickly, say in three to four weeks, doesn't work if people's lives are worse three to four weeks later than before this war of choice even began. I want to bring in Howard Dean, former Vermont governor, DNC chair, presidential candidate, where he ran on an anti war platform in the Middle East. Something we discussed recently when you joined us. Welcome back. What do you see on the pure economics of this for a president and a party that we're already worried about the midterms, I would say this is

[Howard Dean]

pretty much a disaster. Just leaving the foreign policy aside, this is going to make it impossible to cut interest rates. In fact, it may well cause them to go up. It's going to cause shortages at home for people who are the gas prices and so forth. The problem with Trump is there's a lot of problems with Trump, but I don't think he thinks through anything. He just does it on impulse. I don't think he has a staff that can back him up. They're pretty good politically, but they're terrible on actual structure and how you run wars or how you run anything else. It's all from the, from the gut and it's why he wasn't terribly successful when he was a business guy. That's why he's not very successful as a president.

[Ari Melbourne]

Yeah. When you look at the feedback, I want to show some of what people are saying in sort of public discourse as well as on TikTok where a lot of Americans both hear about what's going on in politics or foreign policy and sound off on it. Take a look another day where we don't have money for health care, but

[Ty Cobb]

we do have money for war. It is the ultimate.

[Jack Coyne]

If they wanted to, they would.

[Ari Melbourne]

A month ago we were on this show arguing about subsidies, year long subsidies for the Affordable Care act so people can have access to, to, to, to health care. You tell me that we have enough money to fund a war. They are paying for this war with your health care, with your grandmother's insulin. Howard, the, the funding part is very clear. You and, and other candidates have run ads before talking about let's build firehouses here in America instead of in and you name the country that was about nation building in Iraq. Here the economics are even worse. And yet this is the party that as folks are pointing out, said, oh, they don't have 100 billion for health care. Well, now they want 200 billion of the first of many potential bills for this war.

[Howard Dean]

Well, I mean, this is where this is the big test for the Democrats. If the Democrats vote for what Trump wants and after healthcare dies, I think they're as good as toast. You can't do that. I mean, the public is not stupid. They understand that Trump is looking to spend huge amounts of money, some of which is going into his own pocket as usual on the war that nobody asked for, nobody wanted. Most Americans don't support, including a great many Republicans. And, but he wasn't willing to help people keep their health care. This is nuts. And this is going to. I mean, I think the Republican Party was in terrible shape to begin with going into the midterms. This is just going to sink them.

[Ari Melbourne]

Yeah. I want to also sort of read or toss to a sound bite here. From the gas prices point. These are folks who say they're Trump voters historically. Take a look. If you could say something to President

[Howard Dean]

Trump and he was going to hear

[Ari Melbourne]

you right now, what would it be? You are a worthless pile of. And you voted for him how many times?

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Three times.

[Ari Melbourne]

That was my bad. Apparently I'm an idiot. You know, some of his voters are. They're as colorful in language as he is. But what do you think the Democrats need to do on the political front when there clearly is this anger out there about it.

[Howard Dean]

I think we need to speak directly to the voters about things they care about. I just saw Andy Beshear when he was in New Hampshire, and I'm not coming out for a candidate just yet, but he's got a very good message, which is. I mean, he's in a very conservative state, which is Kentucky. He wins. He's. I think he's won four or five elections in a row in terms of being attorney general and now governor. What he does, he's talked to people about their pocketbook issues. That's what we need to do. We're not touching people where they need to. Need to be touched. We don't have to throw trans people under the bus and all that kind of stuff. But we do have to say, look, let's spend our time fixing this economy. So ordinary working people, which used to be the core group of people that supported the Democratic Party and got us into office, let's focus on their concerns, which is gas prices that aren't two and a half dollars to $3 a gallon, a possibility of getting better jobs, which we're not seeing. These are the things. These are the things that you win elections on. And we cannot let the Republicans. I always say the Republicans are basically the party of hate. Democrats need to be the party of hope, and we need to focus on what ordinary Americans are walking. I don't think that lady's an idiot. She made a mistake because she wanted to change. Well, it was a mistake. She acknowledged it. That doesn't make her an idiot. It makes us idiots if we can't talk to people like that.

[Ari Melbourne]

Yeah. And all of this speaks to how fast politics moves. We started a year where Trump was relishing the kidnapping of a foreign leader, where there wasn't a lot of blowback because he picked on a very small country. So the only blowback was the foreign policy and moral discussion. And people are busy enough to not always weigh in on that now. What a difference we're in. And so I want to ask you a little bit about that shift where we're headed. Where? We're back with Howard in 90 seconds. It doesn't matter if you're a Democrat, a Republican, or an Independent. No one. No one voted for new wars.

[Howard Dean]

No one voted for higher prices at the pump. No one voted for higher prices in grocery stores. No one voted for higher prices in the housing market.

[Ari Melbourne]

No one voted for deporting our good neighbors. And no one voted for government masked thugs Shooting down our citizens in the streets. You got that? Robert De Niro might be one of the best and most beloved communicators out there. It's both what he's saying, what he's saying, and. And how he's saying it, Governor, because these no Kings protests have had a big, big impact. The Minnesota protests, by the standards of American history, had fast impact. I mean, you saw civil rights and other protests roll for years. There was tragedy there, and the government killed people. Over time, though, the protesters very quickly got a lot of the ICE folks out. That was the demand, got leadership changed there and then got Nome fired. Although people can debate the many reasons De Niro is promoting what's going to be this big national no Kings rallies. Well, so where does that fit into all this?

[Howard Dean]

It's very important that people go out on no Kings days. It's a reminder of where the real Americans are. And it's so interesting to see this happen in this generation. This generation. De Niro is my generation. But a lot of this is written is done by 25 and 35 year olds, as we did during the Vietnam War. The problem here is, is not so much whether the war is a good thing or a bad thing. You know, I don't think it's a good thing because I think Trump and his people had no idea what they were getting into. The problem is, when the government lies to people, it upsets you. I was against the Iraq war, not because I'm against all wars and Saddam Hussein was a bad person. I was against it because the government just plain lied to us about what was going on over there. They claimed there were weapons of mass destruction and there were none. And this. And the CIA knew that because MI6 knew that in the British intelligence agency. Well, now we have a situation where the President of the United States and his administration lies every single day to the American people. So we can have a separate opinion about the wars and all these things and about gas pumps. But if you have a president that you think is not telling the truth, that is a big, big problem. And that's what we have in the United States of America today.

[Ari Melbourne]

Yeah. No, you lay it out. And it's interesting seeing De Niro and other folks. And we've seen this at both the Oscars and the Grammys recently. We covered the different artists speaking out, finding their ways to talk about it. Do you have a favorite Robert De Niro film? Since you said that's your generation and it's Friday, what's Howard Dean's Favorite De Niro movie.

[Howard Dean]

I don't think I have a favorite. I see about three movies a decade, so don't put me in the position of being a movie critic.

[Ari Melbourne]

The last one I saw, Godfather 1, Godfather 2.

[Howard Dean]

Yeah, Godfather was incredible. It was absolutely great. But the last movie I saw, just to give you a little context, was I did see Timothee Chalamet in the Dylan movie. That was great. And before that, it was great.

[Ari Melbourne]

What do you think of that?

[Howard Dean]

I thought that was great. That was. It was great because I'm that age that, you know, I'm probably only about five or six years younger than Dylan is.

[Ari Melbourne]

I thought that Dylan movie was so, so fascinating. And they focused in on that critical period going into Newport and the tensions between where music was headed and folk, which, relevant to what you just mentioned about protest movements was. Was Pete Seeger. And so much of that I. I ended up reading the book it was based on and which, of course, goes even deeper and you get a texture of that period. If only, Howard. If only. Our biggest problems today were debating whether someone should use an amp at a folk festival. Yeah.

[Howard Dean]

Yeah. Well, it was. It's. You have the same problem. It's the purists versus the incrementalists. And I have historically been an incrementalist. But we do have health insurance for every kid in Vermont now, and we have put aside 470,000 acres. And so if you. It's okay to be incremental, you just have to keep at it. And then you get to where you need to go, and there you go.

[Ari Melbourne]

A Friday lesson on.

[Howard Dean]

Right, right.

[Ari Melbourne]

A Friday lesson on Vermont incrementalism. Go ahead. Now, I'm running over time, but go ahead, finish your thought.

[Howard Dean]

All I'm going to say is this country is in a disastrous shape. It's not because we're bombing the hell out of Iran. That's not a good thing. It's because we are rudderless, we're leaderless. We have a President of the United States who wakes up, scratches himself in the morning, and then declares something, sometimes without even telling staff. We're in trouble here. And we would have some real leadership. And the Democrats better be prepared to. To show that leadership and demonstrate that leadership and be firm.

[Ari Melbourne]

Yeah. Yeah. Howard Dean laying it out. Thank you. Have a good weekend. When we come back, White House veteran Ty Cobb, who has warned about Trump's competence, his mental acuity, next.

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[Ari Melbourne]

Donald Trump continues to try to see what he can get away with on power grabs. The DOJ is now suing Harvard separate from past suits, arguing that the university has failed to address antisemitism on campus and it wants to use that issue and many say pretext, to get money back from Harvard. Donald Trump's administration is not known for fighting hard for civil rights in general, which has raised questions about whether this is on the level. A judge blocked an earlier effort to defund Harvard. The DOJ is subpoenaing former FBI Director James Comey, one of several efforts to go after him. Trump has all but admitted this is an enemy's list plot. And today he claims that even though he's had many court setbacks and saw his efforts to use harassment subpoenas against Chairman Powell fail last week, he says he has more power.

[Howard Dean]

I have much more power in my second term, don't you think? What do you think, would you say, Brandon, much more power first term? I don't know if I could have gotten away with this.

[Ari Melbourne]

This is Donald Trump's style of blurting. He's referring to FCC Chair Carr, who is currently pursuing what looks like a unconstitutional effort to censor and shake down the media's independent war reporting. They were speaking there at a. I should say they were mentioning an executive order dealing with broadcast competition. A judge has also ordered that laid off employees from Voice of America under Trump actually will go back to work. We've seen subpoenas quashed. As mentioned in the Fed chair probe. Just today, a judge found that the Pentagon's press policy is actually unconstitutional. And slapping down Trump's Pentagon, certain credentials must be reinstated. There are also former FBI agents who are suing because Donald Trump's loyalty tests would seem to flatly involve political retribution. And then there are all the cases against rivals. The Beat has continuously, meticulously tried to track this because Trump moves on to the next distraction and might not want you to remember that many of these cases are failing. Those are the ones in green. And yet when you look at journalists indicted and awaiting trial, there is a long enemies list. I'm joined now by Ty Cobb, who served as a White House attorney in the first Trump administration. When you hear someone you once worked for say he thinks he has more power now, what does he mean by that? Do you take that on the level and we'll put the faces back up. Does it matter that so many of these cases, including against Powell, are fail?

[Ty Cobb]

I think it does matter. I think what happened with Trump's statement about I have more power now is it's refreshing to see him acknowledging his authoritarian bent. And that's clearly what he did. He feels more powerful, but he truthfully doesn't have any more power. The Constitution limits presidential power to the extent that Congress has a spine and the courts can enforce it, but he's certainly exercising his power in a way that that makes him seem as though he can get away with anything, which is what he suggests.

[Ari Melbourne]

Yeah, the, the whole move to make the entire government more of a set of political shock troops is something that is supposed to be guarded against under law. And we've moved away from history where you had Rank, patronage. So it is interesting to see some people move on with their lives. They serve their country, others are fighting. I want to read from this New York Times reporting about this new lawsuit from basically people who've been at the DOJ where you once worked, saying political support for Trump is not a, quote, legal or appropriate requirement for the performance of their roles. The people who are suing. The perceived lack of political support for Trump is an impermissible basis for termination. First of all, you're a clear speaker. Can you better translate that to us? And why should regular people care whether or not there are these MAGA tests for every job?

[Ty Cobb]

Well, it's. You know, there is. The presumption in the United States has historically been that due process would prevent the kind of political escapades that Trump has where he retaliates against anybody who is not a, you know, vocal supporter of whether it makes the country safer or not, as highlighted by that case where Patel, you know, fired very seasoned FBI agents merely because they were part of the Arctic Frost investigation involving Trump's original coup on January 6, where he refused to peacefully transfer the power to a new administration. Trump's level of corruption, constitutional abuses, is such that it's really unprecedented. Bondi is on record saying that they were going to root out anybody that didn't support Trump. She's done so and made the country substantially less safe. The areas of terrorism and violent crime. Patel said he was going to root out anybody that had been involved in investigations against Trump. Even though the grand juries indicted him, courts largely supported him, with the exception of corrupt judge in Florida. And what you've seen is we are no safer. We're much more exposed domestically and certainly internationally. Keep in mind at the FBI, consistent with the. That phrase used in that lawsuit, which is accurate, that loyalty to Trump should not be a litmus test for employment at the FBI. Just before the war in Iran was initiated, Patel fired every Iranian counterterrorism expert. How safe does that make America? It is ridiculous what's going on and not American. And ideally, we'll reach a point where at some point, Congress will step up or the Democrats will take control, and we can, we can reverse course, because the, the course we're on is leading us straight into an abyss that we'll never see America again.

[Ari Melbourne]

Well, you know, I asked you about Powell. He fought some of these Wall street folks, some, some of these universities. They didn't. And then Trump gets asked about it, and he has the back and forth. And again, you've spoken about his Mental state. I'm old enough to remember where when a period three years ago where if a president misstated things, everyone started to say, well, how's he doing? Is he, is he got, is he on it or not? But here, I'll explain. But here's Trump on Powell.

[Howard Dean]

He's under investigation because he's building a building for hundreds of billions of dollars

[Ari Melbourne]

more than it's supposed to cost.

[Howard Dean]

Now, I know it's gross incompetent because I happen to think he's grossly incompetent today. Certainly he should be lowering interest rates. All right, certainly, who would not lower him?

[Ty Cobb]

But he's stubborn.

[Ari Melbourne]

Two points there. One, president can weigh in on interest rates. He's welcome to use his free speech rights on his opinion. He just doesn't control interest rates. But when he says Powell is still under investigation, that's not the case. The start of the investigation was these subpoenas. They've been quashed. And so maybe he doesn't follow the news, maybe he forgot, maybe you tell me how he sounds to you. But it does matter that the DOJ has to follow the judge's orders, not Donald Trump's memory or misunderstanding, that this is alive and well as a probe,

[Ty Cobb]

you would suspect that to be the case. But keep in mind, the DOJ has defied many court orders. There's a piece out by a group led from, by Ryan Goodman, a professor at Columbia. You know, it's 361 pages long of quotes from judicial opinions in the last year where courts have rejected representations and pleadings by the DOJ and other federal prosecutors where, where they just lied to the courts and they defy rulings. You know, that was part of, you know, Judge Boasberg's history before he issued the Powell decision. And the Powell clearly found that the government had not given a scintilla of evidence that justified mere grand jury subpoenas. And that is the lowest standard. Keep in mind, if you look at these cases as part of a group. In the Harvard case, there's already a ruling by a federal judge that Trump's claims of antisemitism at Harvard were used as a smokescreen to launch a targeted ideological attack. Rejected the Trump administration's efforts to prevent, prevent $2.5 billion going to go to Harvard for research. In the Comey case, of course, his prosecution was dismissed. Now they're sending him a subpoena, which of course is a pointless exercise because he still has a Fifth Amendment privilege and he's not going to testify. It's silly, but it's just an interorum effect. With regard to Powell, there was never any evidence. It was clear that it was only to intimidate Powell with regard to interest rates, which is illeg. Improper, unconstitutional. And Boasberg said so. With regard to VOA and Kerry Lake, she assumed powers that she didn't have, ran roughshod over an agency. A thousand people are gonna go back to work because of that. And that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of these cases. Courts throughout the country are now rejecting Trump's illegal fascist attempts to assume all power, and they're rejecting it. They're making it very plain that the Constitution doesn't permit this kind of authoritarianism.

[Ari Melbourne]

Yeah, I mean, well, it's so interesting hearing you break it all down, Ty. And on the one hand you say, okay, there's all of these lines being drawn and that matters. On the other hand, you can't help but feel like, gosh, what a travesty and what a waste of time and energy, to say nothing of the other things that the US Government could be doing on behalf of the good of the American public. When you see it this way, and you mentioned the folks who are acting without authority, and there was a big smackdown on that. I don't think it got enough attention in New Jersey federal court this week. I want to tell folks about that and get your take on that when we come back.

[Ty Cobb]

Great, thank you. Ori,

[Ari Melbourne]

what if you go to work but don't have a job? It was a great Seinfeld episode, but it's a lot more serious if you are a Trump prosecutor who actually can't prosecute anybody. This brings us to a courtroom clash where the DOJ is on defense. Remember Alina Haba? She was Trump's personal lawyer and then she was appointed basically a temp prosecutor. But there are actual rules and laws on how long you can just be in a temp position because you're not confirmed by the Senate. And a judge found that she went beyond those rules over the 120 day legal limit and she said she stepped down, which was another sign, as I was just discussing with Ty Cobb, that the rules can work and the line is held if people fight or it depends on who is doing the DOJ work, because there is now a suspicion by a federal judge that she might be trying to still wield authority in that office after having left a judge this week. Asking another DOJ prosecutor whether Haba is still secretly or furtively trying to carry out that job, which would be illegal. Now, the prosecutor who works for the Trump DOJ said, none that I'm aware of. The judge said, well, so she could be operating in the office going down this line of questioning. Top prosecutor also defied the judge because, as you may know, if you've ever seen a courtroom drama, you have to be admitted to speak in court. The other people in the room are merely observers, and you have a bailiff there. And if you break those rules as a anyone who's not admitted, meaning you could be in the audience, or you could just be from the government, well, you'll get kicked out. And that's what happened because this other Trump official kept trying to speak. The judge said, I will have the bailiff remove you if you don't remove yourself. Ultimately, that person left. It was quite an unusual heated clash. And there's another hearing set for May. Critics object that Haba has been a Trump loyalist, that she's not serious. And it is interesting that this judge, who is a serious person has reason to at least question whether she is now still trying to break the law. She also got the SNL treatment. My name is Alina Haba. The judge has been very unfair from the beginning, and I want to make this perfectly clear. I am new at this and I am learning. Thank you, Alina. You're great on tv. Maybe the worst lawyer I've ever had,

[Ty Cobb]

which is quite an accomplishment.

[Ari Melbourne]

Now, they had fun with the idea that this individual doesn't have a lot of experience, which is true. But this isn't a personal thing. With just Haba. A separate judge tossed completely the indictments against Comey and James because the prosecutor didn't even have the authority to do the job. In other words, the thing I mentioned, the kind of Costanza Seinfeld situation. This has happened throughout Trump's doj. Courts have also disqualified half a dozen of Trump's picks to lead U.S. attorneys offices. I'm back with Ty Cobb. And the problem here is, one, our system tries to protect against radical or unconfirmed temp lawyers by saying that they basically can't do it forever. You get a short amount of time. The DOJ under Trump is playing whack a mole and appears to think that they can just keep doing different people, move them in to get around this. One, will that work? And two, what did you think of a relatively unusual clash there with that federal judge?

[Ty Cobb]

So I think that. Let me go to 30,000ft a little bit on this, because what you have is the dumbing down of doj. We've Got a bunch of Trump loyalists being appointed around the country, six of whom have been disqualified by the courts, including Haba and Lindsey Halligan. And what you have is Pam Bondi, in her rabid, trashy way, as she demonstrates every time she testifies on the Hill, is just playing games with the courts. She doesn't allow the courts to appoint the U.S. attorneys when there is a vacancy, as they are allowed to do and supposed to do. And when they do appoint somebody, she immediately fires them. And then we have these leadership voids at the various offices, which is what we have in New Jersey now. And Haba has this sort of special floating role at the Department of Justice, which she's clearly unqualified for, as you point out in the Saturday Night Live skit where they talked about where Trump, the Trump impersonator, said that, you know, she may have been his worst lawyer. Well, we know that she's $83 million worse than the lawyer who first tried, who tried the first E. Jean Carroll case and only lost $5 million and she managed to lose 88. So I think there's a solid basis for that humor. But she was disqualified twice, including by the Third Circuit, first by the district court. It's clear that she's not entitled to that position, but that she visits there often. And they have this triumvirate group rather than the court appointed U.S. attorney, which they deserve. And the courts are fed up. They've issued many rulings going, who's in charge here? What's going on? And, you know, I think the judge was probably arguably a little intemperate. He may have overstepped, but his frustration is understandable for those of us who, you know, have always approached the Department of Justice with a certain reverence and always, you know, when we were in court, respected the judge and gave them honest answers. You know, that's one of the shocking things about America now, which is Judge Friedman from in D.C. in August of 19 or August of last year, you know, warned that the judge, Justice Department was on the verge of forfeiting what's called the presumption of regularity, where, where federal prosecutors are assumed to act consistent with their duties and their oaths. And he said that Trump was on the verge. Well, now, now we have, you know, we have 90 cases where courts have rejected representation.

[Ari Melbourne]

I gotta jump in just because I got, I gotta jump in on time. But, yeah, you broke it down clearly. Ty Cobb, thank you so much, sir.

[Ty Cobb]

Good to be with you, Ari. Take care.

[Ari Melbourne]

Have a great weekend. I'll tell you folks, when we come back, what is Zorin Momdani and Lebron have in common? That's next.

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[Ari Melbourne]

Even in tense times, music remains a unifying universal language. From that Bad Bunny performance seen across the world to the great bands that people can enjoy together or debate together. Regardless of of all the other things going on right now, the way we get music keeps changing. Or a changing, as Bob Dylan would say, from vinyl to CDs to streaming and from famously radio to MTV to what comes after mtv. Well, there may be clues to the answer. And one of the most viral music shows for our current digital era, Track Star. It started with everyday people being quizzed on the street to identify songs, sometimes from just a few of the first notes, and has snowballed into a forum for really legendary artists like Mariah Carrey and David Byrne to be put to the test.

[Jack Coyne]

Before we start with the music, just introduce yourself.

[Ari Melbourne]

Hey, it's Mariah Carey.

[Jack Coyne]

I'm gonna play you some songs. If you can name the artist, you win five bucks.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer 2]

Okay,

[Ari Melbourne]

it's James Brown. I got four, you got two. Three. Two. They don't teach how to count in Harlem.

[Ty Cobb]

Nice and easy, easy as Tina Turner,

[Jack Coyne]

Proud Mary Wait who wrote that song?

[Ty Cobb]

Why, Young man, I wrote that song.

[Gus Wenner]

Will you love me tomorrow?

[Jack Coyne]

We're duetting right now.

[Ari Melbourne]

And I don't know Paul, he goes,

[Howard Dean]

I was talking to Snoop Dogg recently,

[Ari Melbourne]

and I said to Snoop Dogg, I don't know you, but I love you.

[Jack Coyne]

Did you identify with punk rock?

[Ari Melbourne]

I identified with the do it yourself attitude. All I got to say is, if you got that wrong,

[Gus Wenner]

this is fun.

[Ari Melbourne]

I would do this every day. Okay, let's do it every day. Let's do that every day. The show's organic popularity with musicians led the New York Times to crown it your favorite musicians, favorite game show. Track Star is a pop culture sensation that even draws now some politicians and people in the media, from the New Yorker magazine to Ms. Now. Jack Coyne put me to the test right before the presidential election, while New Yorker editor David Remnick says the series offers in an ugly World a relief and a pleasure to see people talking about what makes them feel something very deeply. Amen. Track Star is now making some media news of its own. A new partnership with former Rolling Stone magazine CEO Gus Wenner, which Axios reports the deal pairs one of legacy media's most recognizable names with a startup aiming to be a modern mtv. Well, that very pair joins us now. Track Star host Jack Coyne and Public Opinion executive chairman Gus Wenner, two music aficionados mixing up something in new media. Welcome, you guys.

[Gus Wenner (alternate)]

Thank you.

[Ari Melbourne]

Great to have you.

[Jack Coyne]

Great to be here. Great to see you again.

[Ari Melbourne]

The show is pretty fun. How does it feel for you?

[Jack Coyne]

I mean, it's been a blast since day one. We started the show talking to just regular New Yorkers on the street, which we still do all the time. And it kind of blew my mind the opportunity that we've had to speak with some of the biggest legends in music.

[Ari Melbourne]

Rolling Stone is an immaculate music journalism credential. What makes you, with that expertise, jump into this new world? What are you guys doing?

[Gus Wenner (alternate)]

Well, I saw that Jack and the team, they were building something really real and really influential and in some ways kind of start up being small, but in other ways was having kind of as big of an impact in the music world as Rolling Stone was in a lot of ways, as MTV did.

[Ari Melbourne]

In a world where there's so much more that's fake, real, authentic, actually has higher value. How much can you fake? If you don't know what song's gonna play and you can choose from any, it's pretty hard to fake that at that point. You have to be a person and engaging with that. Let's take a look at young people and others on. On your show. Don't know. This is by.

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There's color in the name.

[Ari Melbourne]

Pink Floyd. Yo, we're back. Welcome. Way back.

[IXL Learning Announcer]

I used to sing this song on YouTube when I was a kid. Who broke your heart. You're eight.

[Howard Dean]

Do you know Corey choreography to this?

[Jack Coyne]

No.

[Ari Melbourne]

We should. When I was a young boy my father.

[Jack Coyne]

Come on, man.

[IXL Learning Announcer]

This is like one of my favorite songs ever.

[Ari Melbourne]

Are you about to cry? I actually kind of was. Just pay for my groceries for the week. Groceries for the week. Let's go.

[Jack Coyne]

Interesting dance move.

[Ari Melbourne]

That's Bob Marley. Choppa loves Bob. We know that it's real.

[Jack Coyne]

When you put headphones on and you hear a song that you love, a smile comes on your face. Yeah, that's a very real thing. That's the emotion, I think that starts. That's the emotional hook of the show.

[Ari Melbourne]

So artists talk back to politics. Who would have guessed? Did you think when you started this thing out that you'd have major politicians and presidential candidates stopping by to do the tunes with you?

[Jack Coyne]

Obviously not. Obviously not. But what I did recognize was that it opened people up and it was it the real version of the people that I was talking to came across and I thought that that could translate to pretty much anyone.

[Ari Melbourne]

And you see that as nonpartisan?

[Jack Coyne]

I see it as. Not necessarily. I think there's obviously an underlying sense of politics and I think I have politics that aren't so forward facing. But I think it's clear when you see the types of people.

[Ari Melbourne]

Well, let's take a look. Here are some of the. Some of the top two you had on. Okay.

[Jack Coyne]

This is a more important test than running for mayor. This is the test of your music knowledge.

[Ari Melbourne]

About to lose the right.

[Jack Coyne]

Stevie Wonder is one of the greatest

[Ari Melbourne]

musicians who has ever lived.

[Jack Coyne]

We gotta play some New York City centric songs.

[Ari Melbourne]

This is Jay Z. Alicia Keys. Too short. Unexpected. Not for me. Not for you.

[Jack Coyne]

Right.

[IXL Learning Announcer]

Because I'm from the bay.

[Ari Melbourne]

I love him. You do? Sinatra, Incredible New Jersey guy. He's probably priced out of New York City.

[Jack Coyne]

When do you listen to music? Well, this was probably the most music

[Ari Melbourne]

I've listened to in a long time. Busy? Kind of. Yes. Oh, there's a war going on.

[Jack Coyne]

We're in Queens right now.

[Ari Melbourne]

I love what you do too. I love what you do.

[Jack Coyne]

Thank you so much.

[Ari Melbourne]

So good.

[Howard Dean]

Yeah.

[Ari Melbourne]

Tell us about these.

[Jack Coyne]

Was kind of my.

[Ty Cobb]

It was.

[Jack Coyne]

It was a shock. Like I didn't expect to see that coming. But of course you get the chance to speak to someone on that stage, you're going to take it. And I spent a lot of time thinking about what songs I was going

[Ari Melbourne]

to play for her. Did you feel like they were pushing you? Like they wanted her to look good and all that type stuff?

[Jack Coyne]

No, they didn't. They didn't look at the songs, they didn't preview them. They let me play whatever I wanted to play.

[Ari Melbourne]

What. What is it in the mind, in the synapses, when you're trying to identify a song? What's happening? Have you thought about that?

[Jack Coyne]

That's a good question. Well, first of all, I think the first song we play for people, they're nervous to try and play something really easy to warm them up and say, like, this isn't a test. I don't want to throw you off. Like, let's just have fun with this. And then once they start smiling and getting into it, it's just that feeling of like, oh my God, I forgot about the song. I love this song. It's like when you're in the car and you have the aux cord. That's how I feel for the Internet.

[Ari Melbourne]

Tell the people about the aux cord.

[Jack Coyne]

Okay, so an aux cord is an old technology we used to have where you'd have to plug phone before Bluetooth to play. To play music. But whoever controlled the. The music in the car was kind of wanted to prove that they had good taste.

[Ari Melbourne]

It may be Jack's. Yeah, a sort of a casual, chill new gatekeeper.

[Jack Coyne]

It's a little bit like being a radio dj. Choosing the songs that you want to talk about and get people to talk about.

[Gus Wenner (alternate)]

I think people, I think between algorithms and AI, the value of a place that has some kind of curation and impact and human element and heart behind what's. It's putting what it's putting out and can tell real stories. I think that's tremendously valuable.

[Ari Melbourne]

Now, the concept of a movie star, a lot of people say is ending. I mean, we'll see. And yet music seems to be benefiting. It's everywhere. It's more accessible than ever. There's a whole separate debate about artists rights. But why do you see that as such a difference where music is flourishing in these economies and other things might be dying?

[Gus Wenner (alternate)]

Well, I think in film, movie theaters have struggled. And on the opposite end of the spectrum, live music has become a bigger business than it's ever been. So I think you have that one fact. Look, I think the most beautiful thing about music is how accessible it is. And you could be the most powerful person in the world. Or you could, you know, have nothing and here stand by me on the street corner coming out of a restaurant or, you know, in, in a big house, whatever. And you can have the same reaction. And that is so unifying, it's so universal. Doesn't cost money. I mean, it can in certain ways, concert tickets or subscribing to Spotify or whatever, but for the most part, it really doesn't. And that makes it such a powerful art form. And I think for that reason, it's kind of transcend the times. You know, I think film is a totally different subject with different constraints.

[Ari Melbourne]

Your dream guest that you haven't had. And I'll just let you stall for time and think about for a sec. Gus, you would not. You wouldn't think so, but that's what people are always asking.

[Gus Wenner (alternate)]

Well, I. I've gotten the same question

[Ari Melbourne]

for the COVID Rolling Stone. Yeah, sure.

[Jack Coyne]

So it's got to be Paul McCartney's definitely up there. Ringo would be pretty cool. Both. Maybe both of them together, head to head to test both of their music knowledge.

[Ari Melbourne]

Would be a fun one. Who else?

[Jack Coyne]

Bruce Springsteen, Jay Z?

[Ari Melbourne]

On a personal note, Jack, you have your own new baby as of this week. Congratulations, Little John. All right.

[Jack Coyne]

Not named after the rapper producer, but named after my dad, John.

[Howard Dean]

So. Hey.

[Jack Coyne]

Hey, Little John. Good to see you.

[Ari Melbourne]

Congrats to you and your family.

[Jack Coyne]

Thank you.

[Ari Melbourne]

Thanks for having me. All right, Jack Coyne and Gus Wenner. Thanks, you guys.

[Gus Wenner (alternate)]

Thank you, Arthur.

[Ari Melbourne]

Thank you. That does it for us.

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