Trump Eyes Extended Takeover of DC Police

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Trump Eyes Extended Takeover of DC Police"

Podcast: The Beat with Ari Melber
Host: Jason Johnson (Guest-hosting for Ari Melber), MSNBC
Date: August 13, 2025

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Overview

This episode of The Beat dives into the sweeping federal intervention in Washington, D.C., spearheaded by President Donald Trump. The discussion unpacks the political and social ramifications of Trump’s federalization of the D.C. police, deployment of the National Guard, and threats to extend such "takeovers" to other predominantly Black-led cities. The show features voices from community leaders, experts, and city officials, including an in-depth interview with Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott, health expert Dr. Rick Bright, and investigative journalist Annie Jacobson. The latter half of the episode explores Trump’s upcoming summit with Vladimir Putin and the escalating anxieties around nuclear conflict and public health leadership.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Federal Takeover of D.C. Policing & National Guard Deployment

• Description of the Situation:
  President Trump has federalized local D.C. police, stationing National Guard, CBP, FBI, and other federal agents throughout the city. The stated purpose: “fighting crime in the city.” Imagery described as “striking,” with agents visible even in mundane city settings ([00:47]).

• Constitutional & Legal Concerns:
  Trump’s authority to act unilaterally is legally limited to 30 days without congressional approval. However, Trump claims he can act if it’s a national emergency:

  • Donald Trump: "Well, if it's a national emergency, we can do it without Congress." ([02:00])
  • Jason Johnson commentary: Points out the lack of congressional checks and skepticism about the administration’s motives ([02:17]).

• Public & Local Reaction:
  D.C. residents and leaders are alarmed, recalling historical parallels of authoritarianism. Residents state that the city has become safer in recent years, challenging the administration’s crime narrative.

2. Racial and Political Dimensions

• Racial Targeting:
  Trump’s naming of targeted cities (D.C., Los Angeles, Oakland, Chicago, New York, and later Baltimore) are all led by Black mayors with significant Black populations. Rev. Al Sharpton notes:

  • Rev. Al Sharpton: "It's the criminalizing of black people and the criminalizing of blacks in higher office." ([05:44])
  • Sharpton points out the hypocrisy of Trump's inaction during the January 6th insurrection versus his current heavy-handed policing.

• Chilling Effect on Residents:
  Alencia Johnson, former Harris advisor and author, observes that Black and Brown residents are considering leaving D.C. due to feeling targeted and unsafe:

  • Alencia Johnson: "I actually don't want to stay in a city that is a police state... These pictures we're seeing, they are reminiscent of what we've seen in other countries in history." ([04:43])

• Political Strategy:
  The administration is accused of using “tough on crime” rhetoric as a cover to criminalize Black communities while distracting from other scandals (Epstein, economy). There is little interest in addressing root causes of crime—only punitive responses.

  • Jeannie Pirro (on behalf of administration): "My job is to try to heal the victims and prosecute the criminal. Everybody else can deal with rehabilitating the individual." ([08:07])
  • Jason Johnson (commentary): "I honestly am not concerned about why they commit crimes. My concern is if they commit crimes." ([08:18])

3. Advice for Other Cities & Cultural Takeover

• Defensive Measures for Other Cities:
  Sharpton advises blue-state mayors to preemptively gather data to resist federali­­zation and challenge federal overreach legally ([10:02]).

• Culture Wars & The Kennedy Center:
  Trump interferes in the Kennedy Center Honors, signaling intent to control cultural institutions:

  • Donald Trump: "I wanted one. I was never able to get one this year... I'll become chairman and I'll give myself an honor." ([11:19])
  • Alencia Johnson: "He is weaponizing one of our great institutions that is shaping how we see humanity." ([12:12])

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4. Baltimore in the Crosshairs: Conversation with Mayor Brandon Scott

• Trump’s Threats to Other Cities:
  Trump threatens to expand the federal takeover model to New York, Baltimore, Oakland, and more.

  • Donald Trump: “We’re starting very strongly with D.C. and we’re going to clean it up real quick.” ([15:21])

• Baltimore’s Response:
  Mayor Brandon Scott refutes Trump’s crime narrative, highlighting historic progress:

  • Brandon Scott: “We have the fewest amount of homicides through this date on record. In my lifetime, the city has never been this safe.” ([16:52]) Scott emphasizes treating gun violence as a public health issue, integrating law enforcement with social services ([19:10]):
  • “If you don't [accept services], then we are coming with law enforcement to remove you. So we have that program that is working tremendously, both on the enforcement side and the direct service side.”

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5. Trump’s Putin Summit: National Security Risks

• Lack of Expertise:
  Trump’s administration is described as hollowed-out of Russia experts, with major decisions being made in isolation.

  • Jason Johnson: "Trump does not have a single policy-making person who knows Russia and Ukraine advising him." ([25:35])

• Concerns Over Closed-Door Meeting:
  Trump to meet Putin one-on-one, echoing past secretive meetings and raising fears of being manipulated or making rash deals. Katty Kay raises alarms about absence of experts and potential for being “bamboozled” by Putin ([26:22]).

• Ukraine and Europe’s Role:
  European leaders are worried, but emerging principles suggest Ukraine will have a sign-off on key decisions ([28:07]).

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6. Public Health Watchdog: RFK Jr. Under Fire

• RFK Jr. Cuts to Vaccine Funding:
  Dr. Rick Bright explains the grave risks of cutting $500 million from vaccine development:

  • Dr. Rick Bright: “This decision really baffles me... Abandoning this promising technology will hamper us in responding to a next outbreak... It makes us extremely vulnerable for natural disease, but also for bioterrorism.” ([32:16])

• Erosion of Trust in Science:
  RFK Jr.’s rhetoric and administrative actions are said to erode institutional trust in science. The constant undermining and replacement of panels with non-experts, coupled with confusing, untransparent policy shifts, paralyze both industry and public health agencies ([35:22]).

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7. Nuclear War: Reality and Risk

• Interview with Annie Jacobson (“Nuclear: A Scenario”):
  Jacobson underscores the catastrophic consequences of nuclear war, explaining how the U.S. and Russia remain “one button push away from nuclear annihilation” ([38:45]). She details the Pentagon’s own findings: nuclear conflict would cause “total nuclear annihilation” with swift mass casualty and environmental collapse ([39:04]).

• Decision Time in Minutes:
  Johnson and Jacobson stress the speed at which nuclear responses must happen—within minutes—leaving critical world-ending decisions in the hands of very few, notably Trump and Putin ([40:23]).

• Hope Amid Despair:
  Despite the dire warnings, Jacobson expresses hope that the upcoming Trump-Putin summit could open genuine discussions on denuclearization ([42:59]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jason Johnson: “He's [Trump] treating the District as his own personal fiefdom.” ([03:26])

• Rev. Al Sharpton: “He named other cities... all of whom have black males. Like, there are no cities with high crime rates that have white males... So it's the criminalizing of black people and the criminalizing of blacks in higher office.” ([05:44])

• Alencia Johnson: “It is an attack on black leadership and autonomy and is an attack on black people in this country.” ([08:49])

• Brandon Scott: “In my lifetime, the city has never been this safe... We’re acknowledging this historical progress and saying that we have to go even further, but doing it the right way.” ([16:52])

• Dr. Rick Bright: “When we don't trust the science, then we don't do what's important for us to do to protect our families and our communities.” ([33:36])

• Annie Jacobson: “We're always one button push away from nuclear annihilation.” ([38:45])

• Annie Jacobson: “Nuclear war, nuclear weapons are insane. And the result of them is not something that you can ever come back from.” ([42:43])

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:47] — Jason Johnson outlines the federal takeover of D.C.’s policing.
• [02:00] — Trump’s statement on “national emergency” authority.
• [03:26] — Local D.C. reactions and public perception.
• [05:44] — Rev. Al Sharpton on racial targeting and police overreach.
• [08:49] — Alencia Johnson on impact on Black and Brown communities.
• [10:02] — Policy advice for other mayors facing federal intervention.
• [15:21] — Trump threatens similar takeovers in additional cities.
• [16:52] — Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott rebuts Trump’s crime narrative.
• [19:10] — Scott discusses treating gun violence as a public health crisis.
• [25:35] — Johnson and Kay on the lack of Russia/Ukraine expertise in Trump administration.
• [32:16] — Dr. Rick Bright on consequences of cutting vaccine funding.
• [38:45] — Annie Jacobson on the reality and danger of nuclear war.
• [42:43] — Jacobson’s plea to Trump/Putin: “Nuclear weapons are insane.”

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Tone and Style

• The episode employs a direct, news-driven tone; critiques of the Trump administration are sharp and substantiated with data, expert testimony, and lived experience. There is palpable urgency—particularly regarding federal overreach, threats to Black autonomy, attacks on scientific expertise, and the specter of nuclear escalation.

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Conclusion

The Beat delivers an unflinching analysis of the Trump administration’s aggressive federal policing tactics, racialized politics, destabilization of public health leadership, and reckless foreign policy gambits. Grounded in legal, historical, and moral frameworks, the guests emphasize the stakes for U.S. democracy, safety, and the very survival of society as the 2025 political landscape becomes increasingly fraught.

Transcript

[Jason Johnson]

With my job, I can't drink during the week. Weekends are a different story. Ugh.

[Ted Danson]

After eight hours of this, I have earned my wine. You know what I'm saying?

[Jason Johnson]

My family is a lot. It takes me four beers just to hang out with them. Binge drinking isn't all college kids doing keg stands. Oregonians in their 30s and 40s binge drink at close to the same rates as younger people, raising our risk for long term health problems. [e-mail] an OHA initiative. Hey everybody. Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody knows your name. And we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to where everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson, sometimes. Wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jason Johnson and for Ari Melber. And we begin tonight with Donald Trump's takeover of the nation's capital. These striking images of National Guard members stationed in front of the Washington Monument, part of what the Atlantics is calling, quote, the president's police state. Trump has federalized the D.C. police, deployed the National Guard, along with other federal agencies under the false pretense of of fighting crime in the city. This presence includes Customs and Border Patrol, seen here last night parked in front of a D.C. subway restaurant. Or these FBI agents in full tactical gear as a couple appears to enjoy a relaxing date in DC's Navy Yard neighborhood. This isn't exactly Gotham City here, regardless of what Trump and the right wing echo chamber want to promote. And yet he and his administration are already laying the groundwork to extend this authoritarian takeover, despite the fact that his authority is only good for 30 days without proper congressional approval.

[Donald Trump]

Well, if it's a national emergency, we can do it without Congress.

[Jason Johnson]

The president's authority is never over. President's going to do what he has to do.

[Donald Trump]

I don't want to call national emergency. If I have to, I will. But I think the Republicans in Congress will approve this pretty much unanimously.

[Jason Johnson]

Unfortunately, Trump is likely right about Republicans in Congress who have shown absolutely no interest in exercising the kinds of checks and balances balances outlined in the Constitution. But when Trump gets pushback in other parts of his administration can't handle it very well. In Maryland, the president is currently trying to sue every single federal judge in the state over a deportation related order. That suit is not going Trump's way, as the judge assigned to the case said he was skeptical. In California, where Trump deployed the National Guard and active duty Marines against the wishes of local and state authorities, litigation is ongoing. But Trump isn't content to limit his strongman posturing to government functions. He's also long been desperate to dominate the culture, today announcing that he will host the Kennedy Center Honors, admitting that unlike previous years, he interfered in the selection of honorees and, quote, turned down plenty. But as Trump forces himself into every aspect of American life, the residents of Washington, D.C. are speaking out, speaking against him.

[Katty Kay]

In the past five years, it's gotten extremely better. I don't hear gunshots. I don't never had a break in.

[Donald Trump]

He's trying to trample over everything that's.

[Alencia Johnson]

Been put in place that's happened.

[Donald Trump]

You can't take, you can't erase history.

[Alencia Johnson]

For it to be asserted by others that the federal government wants to take.

[Katty Kay]

Over other cities.

[Donald Trump]

That'S crazy.

[Katty Kay]

I actually was concerned coming downtown today because I hadn't been downtown since he said that. So I wasn't sure what encounter.

[Jason Johnson]

D.C. residents weren't afraid before, but Trump's authoritarian actions have made them feel safe in the city. Now, as the Atlantic put it, he's treating the District as his own personal fiefdom. Joining me now is Reverend Al Sharpton, host of Politics Nation here on MSNBC and founder of the National Action Network and Alencia Johnson, former senior advisor to Kamala Harris's 2024 campaign and author of Flip the the Everyday Disruptor's Guide to Finding Cour and Making Change. Alencia, I will start with you this evening. You are in and around the Washington, D.C. area. Just tell us a little bit about how the city is reacting to this. How do people feel? Is it affecting traffic? Do people not want to go downtown? What's D.C. like right now?

[Alencia Johnson]

Well, listen, a lot of what those residents said does ring true here, but was actually even more clear as a lot of people we know in the D.C. area are very much politically active. They are advocates and they are also people. If we look at the demographics and the way that people vote here, they are people who speak out against Donald Trump. And a lot of those folks are black and brown folks. And so I'm setting that up to say that these people are feeling a bit frightened, a bit like, I actually don't want to stay in a city that is a police state. And so if I don't feel as though My freedom here is safe. I have to consider other options, and maybe I have to decide whether or not I'm going to leave the city. I think there's a real understanding here in the D.C. area that these pictures we're seeing, they are reminiscent of what we've seen in other countries in history and that we are repeating itself. And so it will be interesting to see how this continues to play out, as I believe the National Guard just sat here today and they're bringing more troops throughout the rest of the week.

[Jason Johnson]

Rev. I've had a lot of people that I've spoke to in the city describe this as basically federal stop and frisk. And you were in New York. You and the Natural Action Network fought against stop and frisk when that was sort of the. The regular way of policing in New York City. What's your perspective on what's happening in D.C. right now? Does it have any actual connection to policing or is it just authoritarianism? Well, I think that if it does have something to do with policing, and I have my doubts, but it wouldn't be bringing staff and frisk to the District. But several things jump out at me. One is that he named other cities he named after Washington. He said Los Angeles, Oakland, Chicago and New York, all of whom have black males. Like, there are no cities with high crime rates that have white males or white population. So it's the criminalizing of black people and the criminalizing of blacks in higher office. This is the same man that sat three hours, according to reports, and watched people assault, beat and threaten cops and law enforcement on January 6th and did nothing. He didn't call the National Guard then. And when he got put back in office, he pardoned them. So some of the most violent people we've seen in Washington he pardoned. And lastly, I think that this is a lot about let's flood the zone. And people are not talking about Epstein in my base anymore. That said, he's going after those black criminals. Well, we want criminals off the street, but the crime rate has gone down in Washington, other cities. But even then, we want criminals off the street because the majority of the people that are victims of crimes are us. We don't apologize for criminals, but they're not after criminals. They're looking for a way around the Epstein case and a way to go after these black males. I want to play this sound bite for you, Alencia, from Jeannie Pirro yesterday talking about DC and crime. Get your thoughts on the other side. What about preventative?

[Katty Kay]

Do you or the president plan to do anything to address the root causes of crime in D.C. such as truancy.

[Donald Trump]

My job is to try to heal the victims and prosecute the criminal. Everybody else can deal with rehabilitating the individual.

[Jason Johnson]

I honestly am not concerned about why they commit crimes. My concern is if they commit crimes. ALENCIA clearly these folks are only going to be in the city for 30 days, at least for this particular extent. What does it say that Jeannie Pirro, who's speaking in part for the administration, even though she shouldn't be, is not interested in solving any issues that lead to crime? She really just wants to go in and punish? What does that say about what this administration is really doing?

[Alencia Johnson]

Well, to piggyback off of what Reverend Sharpton just said, this is about criminalizing black and brown people. Right? When I think about where I have heard about some of these checkpoints that are already in the city, they are where black and brown people are. I'm actually seeing videos of people being arrested and I believe they were detained by ice. And so they actually don't care about the root cause of crime. And they actually, I don't think Republicans want to solve crime. They want to continue to have these images that you're showing. They want to be able to act as though they are, quote, unquote, tough on crime, but continue to criminalize black people in cities that are led by black mayors. The one thing I want to zoom out and say too is this is giving us. Well, I will say it should give Democrats, because a lot of black people are saying the quiet part out loud. But Democrats should be calling out the racism that is here, the racism that is motivating this right here, as well as the racism that is motivating what's happening in Texas and all the gerrymandering. It is an attack on black leadership and autonomy and is an attack on black people in this country. And unfortunately, Donald Trump has filled his administration with Fox News correspondents who don't even know anything about the law or community safety.

[Jason Johnson]

Rev. What should other cities seeing what's happened in Los Angeles seeing what's happening in Washington, D.C. right now? If you were having a conversation with, you know, mayor or soon to be mayors in New York City or Chicago or other cities that are in blue states, because clearly Trump's not going to go to Houston, Texas, what would you advise him to do to prepare or to sort of slow down this kind of takeover? Should it be coming to a city near you? I think I would immediately have my police chief come out with the data and say, we do not need you, we do not want you. And I would have my city attorney see if there's a legal way to protect the citizens of my city from being stereotyped. I would throw roadblocks now. I wouldn't wait for it to come. Because if we see this president Saturday come out of Alaska with no deal with Putin, he's gonna look for another scapegoat and he'll grab the first black mayor within his reach. Alencia, I wanna get to you really quick on this. Clearly, Trump isn't just happy with sort of his authoritarian rule. He wants to sort of dominate the culture. He's now going taking over the Kennedy Center Awards. I want to play some sounds from him talking about the fact that he's never been honored. Get your thoughts on the other side.

[Donald Trump]

Since 1978, the Kennedy Center Honors have been among the most prestigious awards in the performing arts. I wanted one. I was never able to get one this year. It's true, actually. I would have taken it if they would have called me. I waited and waited and waited and.

[Jason Johnson]

I said, the hell with it.

[Donald Trump]

I'll become chairman and I'll give myself an honor. Maybe I'm going to honor next year. We'll honor Trump.

[Dr. Rick Bright]

Okay.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah. It was 30 years ago this month at another awards ceremony where someone got on stage and said, you don't want someone who's trying to be all up on stage and all up on your videos. Maybe you shouldn't be involved with this kind of situation. Trump clearly wants to be all up and involved in everything. What do you think the response should be of people who might get honored by the Kennedy center after this point? Should they say no to the president? Do you think people should just take their money back? What do you think is the proper culture response to this kind of takeover?

[Alencia Johnson]

Well, if you notice, there was a cultural response when he actually shifted the leadership in the Kennedy Center. You had a lot of great leaders such as Shonda Rhimes and folks actually pull out. And what I think you'll see are actually those conservative right wing people and artists who actually support Donald Trump starting to be honored. And here's the thing. When people say that culture isn't important, if it wasn't so important, Donald Trump wouldn't be attacking the Kennedy center and our cultural institutions. And quite frankly, I hate to say this, part of the reason we are still dealing with him is because he knows how to use culture. And so while we are frustrated with his little temper tantrums because his baby didn't get an award over the last several years. He's actually weaponizing one of our great institutions that is shaping how we see humanity. And so it will be interesting to see the counter response to artists who don't participate in the Kennedy center over the next few years with Donald Trump.

[Jason Johnson]

Reverend Al Sharpton, Alencia Johnson, thank you so much for starting us off tonight on the Beat. And be sure to catch Reverend Al every weekend on Politics Nation at 5:00pm Eastern right here on MSNBC. We have a busy show ahead. New warnings that Trump's upcoming meeting with Putin alone in a room is, quote, a recipe for disaster. Also tonight, a whistleblower vaccination vaccine expert is speaking out about RFK Jr. He's on the Beat tonight. But first, Trump now floating a DC Style takeover of other cities, including Baltimore. Baltimore's mayor is firing back and I'll talk to him live. But we're back in just 90 seconds on the Beat. The Fantasy Footballers are on Sirius xm. It's about time you won your league and we're here to help. Becoming a fantasy football champion begins now. And the biggest fantasy football podcast has the insight you need. Listen to the Fantasy Footballers podcast right now on the SiriusXM app. Fantasy football is fun. Winning is even more fun. And our listeners do both. Listen to the Fantasy Footballers podcast right now on the SiriusXM app. Just search Fantasy Footballers Dogs deserve the.

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[Donald Trump]

This issue directly impacts the functioning of the federal government and is a threat to America. We have other cities that are very bad. New York has a problem. And then you have, of course, Baltimore and Oakland, they're so far gone. And this will go further. We're starting very strongly with D.C. and we're going to clean it up real quick.

[Jason Johnson]

Donald Trump on Monday threatening to expand his federal takeover to other American cities. It's an escalation with obvious racial overtones. Let's take a look at the mayors of the city Trump has threatened. They're all led by black Democratic mayors. In cities home to millions of black Americans. Activists and community leaders are calling this for what it is. Marc Morial, president of the National Urban League, telling NBC News that Trump is, quote, playing the worst game of racially divisive politics. Trump capitalizing on a long standing false narrative that paints non white urban centers as crime ridden and lawless. Joining me now to discuss is Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott. First off, Mayor Scott, thank you so much for joining us this evening. Full disclosure, I tell people this all the time. I am faculty at Morgan State University. So I drive through Baltimore several times a week in order to get to campus. I have seen the changes there. I have to start by asking you this. When you hear the president routinely threaten and attack your city, whether it had to do with the bridge earlier this year or just these statements yesterday, what is your immediate reaction?

[Donald Trump]

It's part, of course, for this president and for his administration and quite frankly nowadays for majority members in his party. But it's a distraction. I think you heard it and you've heard it again. The president does not want to talk about the U.S. economy. That's on a roller coaster. He does not want to talk about the Epstein files. He does not want to talk about the US Is now security and standing in the world. So he's using this Jedi mindf. The reality is in Baltimore, right? I'll start with Baltimore. We have the fewest amount of homicides through this date on record. That's 50 years. So in my lifetime, the city has never been this safe. Right. And I think that we know D.C. is down 30%. And when you look at all of these cities led by black people and black mayors who have dealt with public safety the right way, all of us, this is our number one issue. And what we have done is that we brought our police that work under our commands in the city with our state's attorneys or our district attorneys, depending on where you are. Our attorney general said our state level, our governors and also working with the community through community violence intervention and our federal law enforcement partners who we work with each and every day to get these numbers to where they are. But you don't hear, Jason, any of us celebrating and saying that we have solved the violent crime crisis, right? We've cured this disease of gun violence. We're saying that we are acknowledging this historical progress and saying that we have to go even further, but doing it the right way, way. And that is not what the president is trying to do with this authoritarian takeover going back to. We are far too gone, far too gone from those broken policies of zero tolerance and things that the federal government found Baltimore in violation of constitutional rights before. We're never going back to that because it didn't make Baltimore safer. In my childhood. We've never been as safe, and it's still not good enough for me. We're going to make it even safer every day.

[Jason Johnson]

Mayor Scott one of the things that is a real change in the philosophy that you use in Baltimore is treating gun violence as a public health issue, not as just a punishment issue, as we often hear from the right and Republicans talk a little bit about what that means. What does it mean to treat guns as a public health issue and how does that change intervention and crime prevention in the city?

[Donald Trump]

Well, listen, it is a public health issue, right? Violence is a public health issue because people die, right? And you're talking about something that has been taking millions of Americans, Americans away for years. And what we're doing here in Baltimore is the both and through our Group Violence Reduction Strategy, which is a program that's a partnership with me, the police commissioner, my state's attorney, the attorney general, we actually identify those who are most likely to be the victim or perpetrator of gun violence. And we first go to them and say, change your life. We will help you get a job, training, education, relocation, whatever. But if you don't, then we are coming with law enforcement to remove you. So we have that program that is working tremendously, both on the enforcement side and the direct service side. Then we also have focused our police department through the constitutional policing that we now have, focusing them on guns, removing 2,500 guns from the streets of Baltimore over the past few years and turning those individuals over to our state's attorney to prosecute, which they've been doing a great job, over to our attorney general to do a great job as well, building those cases, going after ghost gun companies like Polymer 80, ending their business not just in Baltimore and Maryland, and at the same time putting historic amounts of money into community violence intervention, making sure that we are actually using people who used to be involved in that life, to go out and prevent it from happening. That's how you solve and cure gun violence. You have to do it all in this country. For far too long, we put the sole responsibility of solving this issue on the backs of the women, men that wear that police badge. We should have never done that. We should have never done that to them. And now we have a way that is proven to work in city and city and city and city. And what we should be having from the president is him joining and helping us to continue those efforts instead of going back to things that look more like a dictatorship than our representative democracy.

[Jason Johnson]

Mayor Brandon Scott, thank you so much for what you're doing in the city of Baltimore and thank you so much for standing up against this administration. Appreciate it.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you.

[Jason Johnson]

Go Bayes. Later. New heat on RFK Jr. With a group of health experts calling for him to be removed. I'll talk to a whistleblower who in the vaccine expert next. But first, Trump meeting with Putin tomorrow one on one. Why? Some national security experts are sounding the alarm. More on that we're back on. The White House also said that the meeting with Putin will be a listening exercise for Trump. And we all know listening and exercise are Trump's two favorite things. So this should go well. A former Trump ambassador is sounding the alarm about Trump's upcoming talks with Vladimir Putin. Friday's meeting about the Russia, Ukraine war is scheduled for a military base in Alaska. Reportedly, Trump and Putin are meeting one on one with just their translators present. Financial Times reporting today on experts who say Trump's purges have ousted top Russian analysts. Ex Trump Ambassador Eric Rubin saying, quote, it's safe to say that Trump does not have a single policy making person who knows Russia and Ukraine advising him. The last time Trump met one on one with Putin, he took his interpreter's notes and told him not to discuss the meeting with anyone as he concealed details even from, quote, officials within his own administration. A year later in Helsinki, Trump infamously threw US Intelligence under the bus, siding with Putin over Russian election interference. Who do you believe?

[Donald Trump]

I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia. I will say this. I don't see any reason why it would be.

[Jason Johnson]

Today. Trump saying Putin will face, quote, severe consequences if he doesn't agree to stop the war after Friday's meeting, but declining to say what those consequences actually are. The New York Times Peter Baker asking, quote, is Trump ready to put serious pressure on his Russian counterpart? Will Mr. Putin again win over the president to his way of thinking or is their friendship really on the rocks? Joining me now is Katty K U s special correspondent for BBC News and an MSNBC contributor. Thank you so much, Katty, for joining us this evening. So I'll start with this. I, I'm famous for saying, I say this all the time. I don't care about court intrigue, I don't care about personal relationships. I never thought that Trump and Putin were friends. But it does seem very clear that Putin has directly lied to President Trump multiple times in one on one meetings. So going into this next one on one meeting, do you think there will be more hostility and less trust? Because what's happened in the past.

[Katty Kay]

Look, so I think President Trump goes into this having expressed more frustration with Vladimir Putin than we've seen in previous encounters. Right, Jason? So he has set the tone for possibly saying, okay, we're going to have certain conditions coming out of this. The question is whether, as Peter Baker says, what are the consequences if Russia doesn't stick to those conditions? And then, I think importantly, are those conditions measurable? I mean, does he go into the meeting and say, okay, look, we actually do need to see that you are not attacking energy infrastructure, or we do need to see that you are not attacking civilian infrastructure and then measure Vladimir Putin against those results? That would probably be quite a positive outcome from this, this conference. It's interesting that a lot of people around the world, particularly in Europe, were alarmed enough about the prospect of Donald Trump walking in one on one with Vladimir Putin without the kind of usual process of having had the National Security Council or the State Department negotiate the grounds and the terms beforehand that they summoned this emergency meeting. I mean, if they were alarmed. Right. Clearly that kind of emergency meeting doesn't normally happen. So I think people are feeling a little reassured this evening that at least he listened to the European perspective, he listened to the Ukrainian perspective. But then the question is, what does Vladimir Putin do to try to woo back Donald Trump? What does he offer him to try and woo him back into that kind of friendship that Peter's talking about?

[Jason Johnson]

Now, this is a key thing here. President Trump after his first term, when he was out of power, he basically hollowed the Republican Party out of any actual experts when it comes to Russia. Russia when it comes to Soviet. He didn't want anyone around who would tell him no. The only person in his administration that might understand anything about this is Marco Rubio, who he sidelined. Melania might actually know more about Russia and Eastern bloc companies than anybody who's actually in his administration. Is it possible, despite listening to the Europeans, Trump doesn't even know what ground rules to set because it's not like he necessarily knows what's at stake. Is he even capable of setting standards with Putin when he's so uninformed?

[Katty Kay]

Look, I don't think anyone would say that Donald Trump was fascinated by details of foreign policy or domestic policy necessarily.

[Alencia Johnson]

Right?

[Katty Kay]

He wants the win. He wants the deal. He wants the meeting. And I think it's been really interesting to watch the White House over the last couple of days, lower expectations for this. I mean, Donald Trump went into this suggesting almost that he had the deal and the Nobel Prize was going to come the next day. That's changed significantly. I mean, we've heard it from Caroline Levitt. We've heard her saying, this is in listening mode. I think there has been a realization that he's going into this meeting and may not come out with the big deal that he had been hoping to get out of it. And then I think the question is, what is the point of the meeting? Does the meeting help the situation in Ukraine, or does the meeting actually hurt the situation in Ukraine? Does Vladimir Putin manage to say to Donald Trump, look, there's all these business opportunities for United States, for the Trump family in Russia. Does he kind of bring him back to the table that way? Does he kind of bamboozle him with flattery? And does Trump get back to his natural state, which seems to be an admiration for Vladimir Putin coming out of this meeting? And that's what the concern is about, not having those experts around. The reason you want the experts around is because you want people around who understand the detail, who understand the complications, who understand the what ifs, rather than thinking this can be just done by two men and the feeling that they have in the course of that meeting, because we know that Vladimir Putin is a master at somehow making Donald Trump feel that they are friends or people who should just do business together, and that that's clearly not the situation here.

[Jason Johnson]

And quickly here, the fact that this meeting is taking place with President Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and Zelensky is not involved. Do you think that makes it more or less likely that any deal actually occurs? Because you're. You're basically setting this up to look like the US Versus Russia and the Ukraine on the side, even though the Ukraine war is the reason the meeting's happening?

[Katty Kay]

Well, the. The interesting thing that came out of that meeting with the Europeans is they do seem to agree to a set of five principles, which include Ukraine having a say in any terr territorial discussions and in any ceasefire negotiations that might lead to a territorial discussion. So I don't see a meeting coming up between Vladimir Putin and Zelensky. Putin seems to have huge disdain for Zelensky, but I do think the Europeans at least feel they've got Ukraine at the table, which is as much probably as they can expect at the moment.

[Jason Johnson]

Caddy K thank you so much for join us tonight.

[Katty Kay]

Thank you.

[Jason Johnson]

Next heat on RFK junior With new calls for him to be fired. A whistleblower is here on the beat. We get back from this break. Hey, this is Will Arnett, host of Smartless. Smartless is a podcast with myself and Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman where each week one of us reveals a mystery guest to the other two. We dive deep with guests that you love like Bill Hader, Selena Gomez, Jennifer Aniston, David Beckham, Kristen Stewart and tons more. So join us for a genuinely improvised and authentic conversation filled with laughter and newfound knowledge to feed the smartless mind. Listen to Smartless now on the SiriusXM app. Download it today.

[Katty Kay]

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[Jason Johnson]

Tonight, new demands from a medical watchdog group for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. To be fired as head of Health and Human Services. The group defend public health comprise of more than 3,000 health professionals calling RFK's removal, quote, the single most important step towards improving the health of Americans and warning that his actions undermining trust in science and vaccines are quote unquote, horrifying. Also today, Trump insiders are delaying the release of RFK's new report on the state of America's health to ensure it's not riddled with broken links, misrepresented data and studies that don't exist. Like his last report, all this adds to the heat. RFK Jr facing backlash after ousting a panel of vaccine experts and leading the charge to cut half a billion from vaccine research. And then there is disconcerting public statements. Here's what he just said this week about trusting experts.

[Donald Trump]

Trusting the experts is not a feature.

[Jason Johnson]

Of either science or democracy. It's a feature of totalitarianism and of religion. With science, there's always questions and we're.

[Donald Trump]

Always encouraged to ask them.

[Jason Johnson]

Science is always evolving. Trusting pilots isn't a feature of ridiculous. Joining Me now is Dr. Rick Bright, an immunologist and vaccine researcher who made waves for his clash with Trump in his first term. Bright had served as director of the vaccine development wing of HHS, called BARDA, filing a whistleblower complaint and resigning in 2020 over the administration's COVID 19 response. Dr. Bright, thank you so much for joining us on the beat this evening. I'll start with this. Just, just, just top line it for us. What is the impact of Kennedy cutting vaccine funding by $500 million? What does that do to the United States?

[Dr. Rick Bright]

Well, and thanks, Jason, for having me on. But in one word, it makes us extremely vulnerable. I mean, this decision really baffles me. Operation Warp Speed was launched under President Trump. It was a pivotal turning point in the pandemic and it backed multiple vaccine approaches. However, MRNA proved to be the fastest to develop while still meeting rigorous safety and effectiveness standards. I mean, the vaccines saved millions of lives. They helped reopen schools in our economy sooner than any other approach. Abandoning this promising technology will hamper us in responding to a next outbreak of an infectious disease. And it could be a bioterrorist attack and it could also hamper our developments for cancer treatments. So it's really short sighted and it makes us extremely vulnerable for natural disease, but also for bioterrorism.

[Jason Johnson]

So, Dr. Bright, I think that's, that's key here as a safety issue and a bioterrorism issue. Talk about the role that HHS is supposed to play in national security. Isn't important that we have leaders there who believe in science not just for biological attacks, but for outbreaks and foodborne illnesses and things like that? Isn't it important that we have someone who believes in science to keep us safe?

[Dr. Rick Bright]

Well, absolutely. We have to have leaders who believe in science and leaders who trust scientists and trust the data that they're seeing. We cannot have leaders who package information in haphazard ways to create confusion and create misinformation. And we have to have these experts because without these experts with a lot of experience, then it does erode trust. And so what we're seeing with Secretary Kennedy is a rejection of experienced experts repeatedly in reports on the CDC panels and the FDA and others. And instead it's being replaced with this mismatch of random data sets that are often irrelevant and often misrepresented to try to make a narrative that erodes the trial trust. When we don't trust the science, then we don't do what's important for us to do to protect our families and our communities. And he has done more to erode trust in science than any other secretary in our in our lifetime.

[Jason Johnson]

Dr. Bright, what occurs to me is the Trump administration has never been particularly open to listening to anybody, especially when it comes to experts. There were plenty of people who had concerns about even putting RFK Jr in this position. But I'm wondering, is there a possibility that some of his behavior could be curtailed or he could be removed if you get enough complaints from, say, the pharmaceutical industry or medical companies, because these sorts of cuts in research and money, they also harm businesses. The business of healthcare in this country is being damaged by this person. Is there much of an outcry from those industries to the administration that this guy is crazy and we need to do something different?

[Dr. Rick Bright]

Well, frankly, Jason, I think most industries, most companies, and most Americans are a bit confused on how to approach this administration. I mean, it seems like one day you might be on the winning side, and the next day you're on the losing side. And most of the times you're not sure which side you're on because the decisions are changing constantly. They're not backed with any science, and the players are also changing constantly. So we're not quite sure who's making decisions, who's drawing up these reports, and who's interpreting the data set. So it's really confusing. Money does talk, and honestly, in Washington, D.C. and there's a lot of lobbyists, and they do drive a lot of decisions, unfortunately, and many times. But in this case, I'm not sure anyone knows where to play or how to play. And so what we go back to is trusting the science, trusting the experts, trusting the process of transparency, openness, debate, and then consensus on what the best pathway forward is. And remember, the goal is to protect Americans, to keep us safe, to keep us healthy, and to keep our country safe and the leadership role. Whenever something bad comes our way, we need to be ready to respond and respond quickly.

[Jason Johnson]

Dr. Rick Wright, thank you so much for joining us this evening on the beat.

[Dr. Rick Bright]

Thank you, Jason.

[Jason Johnson]

Coming up, warnings about Military dangers ahead of Russia and the United States meeting. Our next guest wrote the book on nuclear war. On that, we're back on the beat as Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin gear up for the highly anticipated summit in Alaska on Friday. Saber rattling over nuclear war is looming in the background as Trump spars with former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev. Earlier this month, Trump positioning two U.S. nuclear submarines in response to, quote, highly provocative statements from the former president about Russia's nuclear capabilities. Trump announcing it on social media saying, quote, just in case these foolish and inflammatory statements are more than just that. Medvedev in a post on X warning, quote, each new ultimatum is a threat and a step towards war. Two of the world's largest powers playing with innocent lives through social media jabs. You don't have to go back that far to remember the potential devastation. This month marks the 80th anniversary of the atomic bombing in Nagasaki, Japan, with thousands gathering last week to remember the day that left tens of thousands of innocent people dead. Nagasaki's mayor warning, quote, if we continue on this trajectory, we will end up thrusting ourselves into a nuclear war. Joining me now is Annie Jacobson, investigative journalist, New York Times bestselling author and Pulitzer Prize finalist. Most recent book is Nuclear A Scenario. Annie, thank you so much for joining me this evening. I, I just want to start with this. I found this book to be horrifying. This is legit. These are the notes I, I, this is a horrifying book. Just lay out for us. How close are we, those of us who are in Generation X, even older. We've been living with nuclear war so long, we forget how close we're on the line. How close are we right now, given the leadership in this world?

[Ted Danson]

You know, we're always one button push away from nuclear annihilation. I think I make that really clear in the book. So you can't really measure how close we are in terms of rhetoric. But I think what I try to do is demonstrate that if that line is crossed, it's end game in 72 minutes.

[Katty Kay]

Minutes.

[Jason Johnson]

One of the most disturbing things in this book that I was reading is just how quickly all of this occurs. I just want to play this out and read this section here. As in Washington, D.C. millions of people have been incinerated on the go, melted into streets and surfaces, sucked into hurricanes of fire. People have been impaled by flying shards and crushed under buildings. Everywhere, human beings are screaming and burning and hemorrhaging to death.

[Katty Kay]

Death.

[Jason Johnson]

There is no scenario where large swaths of people survive. Nuclear war is There it's just massive death on a massive scale throughout the planet.

[Ted Danson]

It is mass death. And thank you for reading that part of the book. Everything that I refer to is unfortunately not from Annie Jacobson's imagination. It's documented by the Defense Department, by what used to be called the Atomic Energy Commission. They're examining of what happens to people, places and things after a nuclear bomb goes off. That's what the atmosphere tests were all about. And so, yes, it only ends one way, and that is in total nuclear annihilation. Every war game at the Pentagon, by the way, nuclear war game, shows that it's why it's so dangerous. When you have people like former Russian President Medvedev talking about nuclear threats, and.

[Jason Johnson]

The speed at which the decisions have to be made is staggering and frightening. Once these missiles are launched, whether they were launched from North Korea or launched from Russia, it's only about seven minutes before they could hit the continental United States. And we would have to depend on primarily Donald Trump to make the decision as to whether we'd respond.

[Ted Danson]

You would depend upon whoever is President of the United States. And the same goes for Russia. I wanted to show how bad the problem is so that people who are in a position of affecting change can make those changes to come up with a solution. And I think you see the problem, it's not just horrific, it's literally civilization ending problem. Which is why I think no knowing about how bad a nuclear war would be is really critical to understanding how important it is that people stop making threats, stop talking about using tactical nuclear weapons. This is absurd.

[Jason Johnson]

For most of us, the only thing that brought nuclear weapons back to mind was either Oppenheimer last summer or earlier this year watching paradise on Hulu. And you see this world ending scenario where a couple people managed to survive in a bunker, et cetera, et cetera. But what strikes me about that is paradise seems to give us the impression that there would be large chunks of people who would survive. But from what I'm reading in your book, world temperatures would drop by 40 degrees, crops would be destroyed, lakes and oceans would either burn or freeze. There's not really a scenario of large groups of people surviving a nuclear attack, is there?

[Ted Danson]

Well, that's right. And in paradise, they do a different scenario. They have a different. I don't want to give it away, but they have a different impetus, and the result is sort of small, you know, attacks with nuclear weapons. And so. So it is a different end game. But what I show is specifically how the Pentagon would deal with being attacked with nuclear weapons. And that's where everything becomes so all or nothing.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah. One of the more interesting notes I saw in here is it said even our defense mechanisms against nuclear weapons are essentially shooting a bullet at a bullet. The speed at which this would occur makes it very difficult. If you had an opportunity to sit and talk to Donald Trump or even Vladimir Putin before their meeting on Friday, what is the one takeaway would want them to have? What's the one thing you would want them to realize or think about based on what you learned in all these interviews and what you put together in.

[Ted Danson]

This book, that you know, nuclear war, nuclear weapons are insane. And the result of them is not something that you can ever come back from. I have hope toward this summit. Believe it or not, I may be different than others.

[Jason Johnson]

Please share it with us.

[Ted Danson]

Well, after you write a book like I did and you spend all that time interviewing defense officials who advise the president and you know the stakes and you are aware of what happens, I think as I demonstrated straight in the book, you have to be hopeful about this because the stakes are just simply too high. This is the first time that two world leaders who control 90% of the nuclear weapons on the planet. There are 12,000 weapon nuclear weapons between nine nuclear armed nations. The US and Russia control about 90% of them. Two men in one room. I have a hopeful feeling that they're going to talk about denuclearization as the current president.

[Donald Trump]

President.

[Ted Danson]

President likes to call it.

[Jason Johnson]

Annie Jacobson, thank you so much for joining us this evening. This is a fantastic book. I tell everyone to check it out. I'll be right back with one more thing on the beat. It is truly the end of an era, a phenomenon that started in the 1990s and shaped the early days of the Internet. It's coming to an end. America Online announcing it is ending its dial up Internet Service Service on September 30th. You might be surprised to learn that over 160,000 households still use the service. But at its height, the iconic you got mail alert was a staple in millions of American homes.

[Alencia Johnson]

What is Internet anyway? What do you write to it like mail?

[Jason Johnson]

If you have a phone line, you can be online every day. America Online is making it easier for people to live, work and play. There has never been a better time to get online. Those familiar sounds are now a relic of the past. Hey everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody knows your name and we're back for another season. Season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to where everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts.