← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Trump Rocked as Epstein Scandal Roars Back
00:40:56
MS NOW’s Ari Melber breaks down reports of “chaos” engulfing the Trump White House, from the war in Iran and the Epstein scandal to spiking inflation.
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- [00:00]
Tony Schwartz
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Chris Hayes
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Tony Schwartz
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Chris Hayes
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Washington also waking up to this type of headline knives are out inside an insular and isolated White House. Political reporting on the angry and grievance driven Trump White House mood these days with one ally saying knives are out in some capacity. People are stabbing people like it's chaos. The chaos creeping back. Another MAGA political operative quoted as saying Trump is pissed and people are not recognizing the level of piss that he is. It all comes back to Epstein. A story that we've reported and told you they have not been able to step including high profile testimony this week. And that New York Times bombshell, which is part of a forthcoming book that probably has more details because this was just an excerpt. The Times reporting the rather unusual, somewhat embarrassing detail that they misused National Security Situation Room to spin Epstein. The response here, instead of shoot the messenger, it's find the leaker. A reported massive leak probe into who might have been talking to those journalists. You'll note though that a leak probe implies there are real people who said real things to the journalists. In other words, that the story was basically true. Right? They want to find their own aides who are still in The White House, who talk to the reporters. Meanwhile, the inflation numbers that are coming in show that the inability to stem or end the ceasefire and the war in Iran continues to catch up with America and Trump at home. Price gains have wiped out the pay increases that Americans have even gotten over the past year, on average. So this is some of that economic math. But the bottom line is, if you adjust for inflation, your hourly earnings, all Americans hourly earnings are actually lower. They've effectively fallen because of Trump's inflation. Now, Trump says he loves the inflation. I guess that's something he does not have in common with the American worker. And there are other statements which, from someone who has focused on pr, who is known to be a communicator, have raised wider questions about why any politician, including the incumbent president, would say that he doesn't ever even think about your financial situation, or that he doesn't care about what you do and vote in the upcoming midterms, or, as mentioned, that he loves inflation. Mr. President, to what extent are American financing situations motivated you to make this deal? I don't think about American financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I don't care about them. In terms of. Sir. Mr. President, about the latest inflation number which came out this morning, could that be it? No, I love it. The numbers were great. You know what? I really. I love the inflation. He loves it. Meanwhile, in private, there are oil executives warning the White House that the gas price problem is only going to get worse. The Washington Post reporting on what were essentially private warnings. Americans paying at the pump. Federal workers, meanwhile, are preparing to host the UFC ring there at the White House. We have new footage we should mention. Trump also owns stock in the company behind this fight. Critics questioning whether this is part of the ongoing grift and that it doesn't end there, as the Trump family is trying to make money by selling a $12,000 commemorative gold coin that connects with this unusual fight that Donald Trump wants to hold at the White House, which is a type of focus and energy going to this instead of governing the war. High prices. Jimmy Kimmel having a field day. The Trump family is offering a special commemorative coin with his head on it for this UFC event for the low, low price of only $11,999.99. You can see, though, it's a beautiful coin. Julius UF Caesar is pictured. You know, if you forget the last many years of politics, if you go back to, say, 2014, 2013, you know, before Trump was even really floating this run, it's like the Simpsons episode that imagined it or any other cartoon. The fact that it's really kind of the most absurd version of Donald Trump hawking the coins and the products and the wrestling and the reality TV gambits, the type of thing that you wouldn't think he would need to do. He's in the second term. He has no more elections to run. He could try to at times focus on other things, but this is who he is. He was not going to change. He has shown America who he is. And so that's the weird moment we're in, living through a summer where people are actually having to cancel, reschedule, change their weekly plans. The vacation they were going to drive to the lake for because gas is too expensive. And whatever gains, as I mentioned, they got in hourly wages have been wiped out by Trump inflation, including the gas crunch. That is only a direct product of a war that he started that nobody, nobody seemed to want in America and that he certainly didn't run on and he certainly didn't get Congress to clear. And so against the backdrop of these serious problems, foreign and domestic, you have Trump selling coins and doing these reality TV ploys and you might say, okay, well the news is reporting on that. But you know, that's who he is and that's how he got elected. And that's his appeal. Well, it's not his appeal anymore. He has historically low second term approval ratings. He is at a low enough approval that statistically a heck of a lot of people who have voted for him in the past now disapprove of him. So maybe the shtick and the campaign moves and the antics that did get attention in our political attention economy during campaign season and aren't actually turning out in a way that the American public wants. And that's before you even get to the aging president's physical stamina. Now this is the type of story we reported on regarding the last president who happened to be a Democrat and this president who happens to be a Republican. What they have in common is what has become a big kind of ongoing issue in sclerotic Washington, which is a lot of people who are way past retirement age continuing to do their jobs or do them as best they can. Trump again being seen in what looks like a public nap and not at a kind of quiet end of the night kind of event. This was actually at the loud, action packed Knicks spurs game today. There is reporting that he saw 22 different medical specialists as part of his last checkup. Now, if you have good health care and everybody would want the president to have, of course, the best there is. You can see as many specialists as you want. The question is whether this relates to other issues and a lack of transparency in the White House. There are questions from outside physicians who said they were skeptical of the disclosures about his health. And remember, when you are president, you give up some of that personal health security that most Americans have. In other words, it's not your employer's business or anyone's business if you don't want to share. But that's not the case with the president. There is a long and important standard of the president and the White House sharing the medical exams and other information because it is a national security issue and a matter of public importance. If you ask the public, though, well, Americans are concerned that he may no longer be physically and mentally fit enough for the job. And that is a backdrop that might remind you of why Biden ultimately exited the race. Because those kind of problems, those numbers are very hard to reverse. And while Donald Trump isn't running for office, his party, of course, is up in the midterms and Republicans are watching their odds get worse. Larry Sabato is a renowned elections forecaster. He sees Republicans struggling and Democrats surging in several Senate races. Take it all together and what do you have here? A kind of a doomsday of problems. We didn't have to be at war. Trump started the war. So we didn't have to have a gas crunch. The war caused that. We didn't have to have an Epstein crisis that lasted this long in America. If Donald Trump had done just what he said he would do and immediately release the, it wouldn't have taken this long. And ironically, it may redound against his benefit and hurt the Republicans. That here deep into the summer, we're still looking at that issue. The reporting, him hunting the Epstein leaker, more witnesses going before Congress because Trump's DOJ did not do the investigations that they should have and said they would. And you don't have to take the news's word for it. You can get that take from Megan and Tucker and the right wing podcast. So all of this is congealed into a problem for the Republicans going into the midterms and potentially for Donald Trump as he looks at a nation that increasingly sees him as unfit and off the path Americans want. Where do we go from here? And what will Trump do responding to such a kind of negative terrain for himself? We have a very special guest booked tonight. You might remember Tony Schwartz, the Art of the Deal co author and noted Trump critic who has worked with him up close, who has really eyed what the problems are. And he's back with me on set in 90 seconds. Artificial intelligence is moving very, very fast
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Tony Schwartz
and it's raising new questions just about
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Chris Hayes
every day about what it is, what it isn't. When all is said and done, what
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Tony Schwartz
is the end game?
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Chris Hayes
I'm Chris Hayes and as part of my podcast why Is this Happening?
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Tony Schwartz
I'm speaking with leading experts each week
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Chris Hayes
to help ground that conversation. We're right now in a situation where
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Maya Wiley
it's very difficult to understand what is
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Chris Hayes
real and what's not real.
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Tony Schwartz
Why is this happening? The AI Endgame, a special miniseries from Ms. Now start listening today.
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Chris Hayes
Wherever you get your podcasts, We're joined by going to go here. We're joined by Tony Schwartz, co author of the Art of the Deal. His interactions with Trump dramatized in the film the Apprentice. I got three rules, okay?
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Tony Schwartz
They're my three rules of winning.
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Chris Hayes
Rule one, the world is a mess, okay? The world is a mess. Tony, you have to fight back. You have to have a tough skin. Attack, attack, attack.
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Tony Schwartz
If somebody comes after you with a
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Chris Hayes
knife, you shoot him back with a bazooka. That's all the art of the deal. We know how Tony got there and co wrote it with allegedly Donald Trump, depending on how much you think he wrote. Now, I want to mention Tony is the founder of the Energy Project, a consulting firm conducting surveys on how people feel in the workplace. And I want to mention you can find that energyproject.com survey for the work you're doing. Welcome back. I'm thrilled to have you at this critical time. It's been a minute. Given how well you know him and how he responds to adversity. What does he do with this situation?
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Tony Schwartz
I honestly don't think he has the marbles to do anything. I think it's happening to him. And you know, you just look at a day like today where he goes from one extreme to the other about Iran and whether he's going to bomb it or not, and then he tells the world he is. Why in the world would you do that? And you know, now he's got the Epstein drama that was created by Maggie Haberman and her colleague. I just think that he is lost and really doesn't have a sense. Not that he was so great about this at any time over the last 10 years, but I think he is without any instincts other than self preservation in the immediate moment when and that self preservation in the immediate moment means he sets himself up for lots of terrible Things going forward, when you see
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Chris Hayes
this Epstein story drop and they're still so concerned about that. And the response is hunt the leakers, as I mentioned. And it bears underscoring, this isn't a response that says, they made this up. Fake news. It's not true. It's more like, oh, no, someone who works here told the truth about this. And all he wants to do is publicly admit that he wants to, quote, hunt them down. Yeah.
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Tony Schwartz
I mean, that's his way is to attack, attack, attack, as he said in the movie. And so, you know, the reality has no meaning to him. Reality is what he makes it in that moment. And in some measure, he believes it. The problem for him right now is most people don't.
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Chris Hayes
Right, right. And that. And that that gap which we saw in gaffes, it used to be sometimes he would say things and elites or DC would recoil, but he would find a pocket of support out in the country. Maybe we didn't like it, but he would find it. When he says, I love the inflation going up, which I just reported in the Times, has an article that's literally wiped out what little hourly gains people had. That's real world. I don't think anyone agrees with him that. They love that.
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Tony Schwartz
No, I think they don't. And actually, that's part of what we're doing in this assessment. You know, in 2014, I did an article for the New York Times called why youy Hate Work, and it really assessed what's the experience people are having at work. We're redoing that now. That's what you were mentioning. And it strikes me that we are at probably is gonna turn out that the climate Trump is creating is making the experience of people. What people hate most is uncertainty. That's what makes them the most anxious.
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Maya Wiley
And.
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Tony Schwartz
And the climate of uncertainty trickles down. He's, from my perspective, the chief Ed Trump, for better or for worse, is the chief Energy officer, and the energy is bad. And so the experience people are having, we want to look at what is it that. What is it that you need to do as a human, as an individual right now to weather this storm, to deal with what is an unprecedented level of uncertainty.
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Chris Hayes
Yeah. And the gaffes, you know, they may accrue in a way where people are sort of used to them. It's almost like the first time you fall asleep in public, you go, I guess that's part of his deal now. Even though he was famously loved to call him Sleepy Joe. And then it keeps happening. Falling asleep at a Knicks game in the finals that you flew up for. You know, it really says something. And I wonder what you think, having worked with him and his communication skills. I want to show some of these recent gaffes, but whether the public is also inured to them to some degree. Take a look, Mr. President, to what
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Maya Wiley
extent are American finance motivating you to make it?
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Chris Hayes
I don't think about American financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I don't care about the midterms. Are you concerned, Mr. President, about the latest inflation number which came out this morning. Could that be a no? I love it. The numbers were great. You know what I really love? I love the inflation.
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Tony Schwartz
It's demented. I mean, it's so self destructive. And this is, this is, I think since the first time I came on this show in 2015, 2016, I guess it was, I've been saying this, that the destructive impulse, self destructive impulse in Trump is so intense that, you know, what he has is a classic addicts way of being, which is he needs to feel he's a black hole. And you pour stuff into it. And he poured in, it maxed out when he was reelected president and it looked fantastic, but it seeped out incredibly quickly. And then he has to keep upping the ante and chasing the high. And so now where he's at is there's no high to chase. So that's just, that's just a piece of self destructiveness. He's gonna go, he is going to go down as the worst president in the history of this country.
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Chris Hayes
You look at his dealings with the congressional primaries where even when you're unpopular, the sitting president has leverage in their party. I mean, that's well documented. Doesn't make him some mighty superhero. It's just how party politics works. And so we saw that with Cornyn and Massie. And Cornyn, who was very, very reliable, vote for the MAGA agenda in Texas, but committed the cultish sin of criticizing Donald Trump on something years ago. This is what he says. Trump was hurting his own party with self serving decisions and this insistence on a kind of slavish loyalty, setting himself up for a midterm disaster which he thinks will pave the way for the most miserable two years of his life. And that's where we go if they lose the midterms. And I always tell folks that depends on what the people do. Right? We can't predict that because we have to see what the people do. But the numbers show if they were held today, it would be an uphill battle that idea that Trump would be miserable, would be a lame duck, would be watching the world pass him by. And yet you know him so well. That doesn't mean that he will bow out gracefully. What do you worry about if Cornyn's right about those miserable two years?
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Tony Schwartz
Well, first of all, graceful is not a word we apply to anything that he. Second of all, I imagine that as being a torturous period of time for him. You know, he's also, we have to assume, got something going on pretty significant physically, given the number of visits to the hospital and all of the issues you can see on his body.
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Chris Hayes
And to be clear, that's something experts are questioning. And the White House has not been very transparent. Right. If they were more honest and transparent, then we would look at it and the doctors would tell us what they see.
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Tony Schwartz
Yeah. And we wish that transparency had characterized the previous administration as well.
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Chris Hayes
But.
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Tony Schwartz
Yes. Yeah. Lack of transparency is, is characteristic of this administration. I just think that, though I agree with you, he would not step down or bow out. I think he's going to quit in his own mind. It's like you're playing a basketball game. You're playing a basketball game, you're down by 29. And you say, you know what? I've had it.
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Chris Hayes
Some teams do it.
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Tony Schwartz
He is not, he is not the Knicks. Let me say one other thing, Ari,
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Chris Hayes
just, but I'll let you finish. But you think he might do a kind of quiet quitting at the real hard parts of the job.
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Tony Schwartz
Perfect description. He is going to quietly quit, even if it's just that he loses the House. But I think people really, maybe this is my hope, are underestimating how big this wave is going to be. I think the wave is going to be bigger. But I just want to invite again your audience to collaborate with me in assessing how they're doing and in being able to report back to them, I hope here on what we discover, particularly as it relates to what they can do about it. So. Www.the energy project.
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Maya Wiley
Great.
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Chris Hayes
And we'll, we'll put that up on our socials as well. Tony Schwartz, thank you. Good to have you back in the House. Coming up, Donald Trump has a plan on the Convict Fund, a way to potentially bring it back. And is it still illegal? Maya Wiley is here on the doj. Next, Turning to two important stories now that are related Donald Trump's lies and his effort to get people around him who will support or even abuse government power for those lies. Number one is a story with a type of silver Lining if you care about qualifications in government, because we can report that Trump has backed off one of his most controversial moves of the last several weeks and now is pushing prosecutor Jay Clayton to run intelligence. That is a retreat from Trump's initial temporary pick, Bill Pulte, who had no relevant intelligence experience and faced widespread backlash. Now, whatever one thinks of Clayton, this new individual, he does have more relevant experience. So this is widely seen as a retreat by Trump that he didn't want to continue to fight what was probably a losing battle to have an unqualified partisan choice play a kind of temporary role on intelligence. Now, some of that pushback came from experts, intel vets. Democrats had criticized the choice as well as Republicans. And if you're sensing a pattern here, things are a little different than a year ago or the first term. We're increasingly see, at least increasingly seeing, at least on the very extreme measures some Republicans in the Congress, including some that Trump, of course, has tried to defeat, which I just discussed with Tony. We've seen some of those Republicans join a chorus of pushback. Now, this new individual for the intel pit, Clayton, was recently questioned about Donald Trump's evidence free claims about voter fraud. Do you think that it helps, given where you sit in the world, to speculate about fraud or potential fraud without any direct evidence of said fraud? I am not speculating about fraud. I'm not saying there is fraud. Okay. I am saying that the opportunity for fraud makes no sense to me. The president over the weekend, very openly didn't just speculate that there was fraud. He said directly that there was fraud. You'll notice the kind of slow, halting, pausing interaction. Part of what you're seeing is what it sounds like when someone doesn't want to upset the president, which, by the way, is part of your job if you're an honest government service, if you're in that line of work. But not going nearly as far as the now discarded pick Pulte, who was saying all kinds of false things. So what we also know, though, is the administration's already tried pursuing election fraud investigations in California, and Democratic leaders are pushing back quickly. They're prepping legal injunctions so that they can bar in real time any effort to misuse power and put armed federal agents or even armed citizens near voting sites, among other measures. So for those watching who say, well, are we even going to have a free and fair midterms? That's some of the back and forth I mentioned a second story here, and it's kind of related. Pressure works. Lawmakers and Lawsuits have swiftly made Donald Trump's DOJ back off that proposed criminal fund that drew so much outrage. Remember, the DOJ first floated this as a method where they would misuse sort of funds that are in the DOJ settlement fund system to pay, like, legitimate cases. They would just take that without it being appropriate from Congress and try to pay MAGA allies, maybe even ex convicts from Jan.6. Now that's paused in court. Trump's DOJ saying it will stop. They will not do the fund. That's what they said to court, but that doesn't mean they will. If you're watching this, you're going, yeah, I've seen Trump and his folks lie and move around before. Right? And there are new reports that Trump aides are already secretly assuring some allies that those original payout plans will remain on track, according to eight sources who spoke to the Atlantic. Now, that violates the DOJ's own claim in court. So what do we do with this? If you're watching this and going, okay, well, they lost, they backed off. But if it's just a ploy, then what happens? Well, I can tell you some of the lawyers and liberal groups who've been suing over this are onto it. The DOJ provided no evidence, for example, say lawyers who were suing them over this issue, that it would actually end this thing for good. And so what you're seeing tonight is the Trump Justice Department's we don't trust you moment. That's what Metro Boomin once told the artist Drake, that basically, you have no credibility if people don't trust how you move. If people don't trust you, then they will act accordingly. It's kind of a diss. In fact, if you're interested in the trivia, the album cover on your screen is, we don't trust you. And that's the whole thing that started ultimately that big Kendrick Drake rap battle. So if we don't trust, as they would say, the doj, what do you do about it? Well, there are measures here. You just have to play tough and not back down. So one of those legal groups I mentioned that's saying to DOJ and Todd Blanche, we don't trust you, are using their power in what is still the open lawsuit and asking the courts to go in and make sure that Todd Blanche, who has done so much for Trump's bidding, that Mr. Blanche will be forced. They argue that the judge shouldn't just let this go on his word, but should actually issue a permanent injunction so that they cannot legally misuse those funds. Now, is this analogy fair and what will be the outcome in those cases? I think we have a good guest for this, our friend and lawyer, Mile Wiley. Next.
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Tony Schwartz
Thursday, June 25, an MSNow Live event from Philadelphia celebrating America's 250th anniversary. Join Rachel Maddow, Allie Velshi and Jen Psaki with special guests for a dynamic evening exploring our nation's most pressing issues. At this pivotal time, you are helping yourselves.
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Maya Wiley
You are helping your country.
- [27:17]
Tony Schwartz
Ms. Now live presents we the People America 2 250. Visit Ms. Now America 250 to buy your tickets. Today,
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Chris Hayes
The Trump administration is in retreat on several issues from their intelligence pick to that criminal fund. Even as there are reports that, as I explained, a lot of folks are saying to Trump, doj, we don't trust you. I want to bring in Maya Wiley, the SDNY civil prosecutor, CEO of Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, former mayoral candidate, and today a New Yorker in Nick's orange.
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Maya Wiley
Okay.
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Chris Hayes
Did you feel good last night?
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Maya Wiley
Did I feel good last night? I'm so good. They had to put twice as much makeup over the bags under my eyes because I couldn't stop watching clips.
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Chris Hayes
I'm happy for you, Jayla. So we don't trust you. They say I just want to level set that even very controversial administrations, the Bush administration had all kinds of legal controversies, but when their attorneys general submitted attestation to a court that a program was over, that was usually the end of it. Here I've noted the strong work by crew and other lawyers to say they at the DOJ don't get that kind of deference anymore and they should be permanently barred or else there's a risk. Are they being unfair at being so doubtful to DOJ today or what do you think?
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Maya Wiley
Absolutely not. And there's plenty of public record to show why they should not. But I am just going to say the one thing I have never seen seen in my career in my lifetime. 35 federal judges who send a letter to the court saying you have to stop this. Basically this, this, this Trump agreement when Trump is on both sides of the case. Yeah. Think about this. Trump is the plaintiff and the, and the defendant.
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Chris Hayes
Yeah. Next he'll be the judge.
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Maya Wiley
Next he'll be. And exactly. Well, as he's actually trying to be the judge, he wants all the judges to be his judges. And this is the point. And a sitting an interim attorney general who's also been a deputy attorney general not only long history of not only being his personal defense attorney because that in and of itself. In and of itself. Not necessarily the problem, except that he's acting like it. And so you have a case in which what the 35 federal judges are pointing out, bipartisan, by the way, what they're pointing out is not only is on both sides of the case, he brings a case that has to do with personal tax issues.
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Chris Hayes
Yeah. His own. Yep.
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Maya Wiley
Personal has nothing to do with the people's business. And then somehow, not only does he self dismiss that case, there is no mention of the fact that there's this agreement. No mention. I clerked for a federal judge. I've appeared before federal judges. It is common and normal practice if there is a settlement agreement to just disclose that fact.
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Chris Hayes
Sure.
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Maya Wiley
That's just normal. Why you, in fact, you like to tell the judge, judge, we've agreed, we're good.
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Chris Hayes
No, the hiding is suspicious.
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Maya Wiley
The hiding is suspicious.
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Chris Hayes
The lying is suspicious. And I want to show Blanche and again, part of our job here. Some people say, oh, they get used to it or they get tired. I think we have to be very clear about what the rules are in this country and what our values are. And the fact that some people break them doesn't mean they don't exist, just means we have to deal with that. And so I observe this opening sequence since Todd Blanche became acting Attorney General as one of the worst, most failed, scandal plagued openings of any Attorney general's period ever. I mean, the worst first month ever. And I want to play what he's claiming. They're not moving forward with the fund. When he is under oath, it is still a crime to make a materially false statement to Congress whether it's in writing or not. That's why you go to Congress. That's why that law exists, even if you're not sworn in. And what he claimed there and what this reporting today shows and what Trump continues to muse about. Take a look. But we are not moving forward with the fund. Period.
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Maya Wiley
Not moving forward ever.
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Chris Hayes
Correct. Notwithstanding what we do in those litigations and defending our rights and making sure our rights are protected, we're not moving forward with the fund. I think the weaponization fund is a great idea and so do many other Republicans. You have to get it approved. If they get it approved, that's great. If they don't get it approved, I'd be disappointed.
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Maya Wiley
Well, there you have it. One of the things we know about Todd Blanche in that is he not only was not under oath, he also refused to put it in writing despite the fact that he said it. What sitting attorney, anyone Sitting in this position of the people's top lawyer should, if making a representation like, be unwilling to put it in writing unless you're waiting to do the bidding of the president. Who's telling you you do what I tell you, not what the law tells you, not what conscience tells you, not what your roles or your responsibilities tell you. And I want to remind everyone, which I think people are quite aware of, is who might benefit from this fund. Who might benefit are the very people that Donald Trump said when he was candidate Trump, stand back and stand by. Yep. And then showed up, committed crimes, were violent and were organized, intentional inciters of violence. That's what we're talking about. And when you are, even Bill Barr wouldn't go this far.
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Chris Hayes
No, he wouldn't even Bill Barr.
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Maya Wiley
And you and I sat and did a lot of TV coverage about how egregious it was. Some of the behaviors we saw from Bill Barr, including around the Mueller report. We haven't seen anything like what Todd Blanche has done. And full disclosure, the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights coalition of over 240 national organizations. We are strongly opposing his nomination to have the job permanently. And I just have to say, doesn't matter who you are. We have Capitol Police officers raising this claim, saying it's our lives who are on the line. This fraud actually has directly impacted us. There are threats to our lives still. The consequences of these go far beyond even whether the law was broken or not broken. It actually has substantial implications for real people and whether we're giving permission to hate and violence.
- [33:42]
Chris Hayes
Yeah, you put it very clearly, which is why we wanted to hear from you. Maya Wiley, thank you so much. When we come back from the break, Eamonn Moyldean says Donald Trump is destroying America's moral credibility and something must be done as we also look at how the Trump economy is complicating life for young people. What a week. We have a very special fallback right now, and I've got two amazing guests returning. Eamon Moyle, breaking his own record, our most frequent fallback guest ever, his 12th a dozen. He's bested Al Sharpton, with whom he once shared the crown, but no more. Eamon, of course, hosts the weekend primetime on Ms. Now and draws on years of serious international field reporting where he has told all kinds of stories from the Mideast and out to other countries. And making her beat debut, musician, singer, rapper Lexa Gates. It's going all out right now. She once spent 10 hours on a hamster wheel as part of an art installation to promote her work and music. Yeah, that's dedication.
- [35:02]
Maya Wiley
I'm gonna do it.
- [35:03]
Chris Hayes
Good.
- [35:03]
Maya Wiley
I'm gonna do it.
- [35:04]
Chris Hayes
Whatever makes you feel good.
- [35:05]
Maya Wiley
Nah, that can't be it. This is true love, isn't it? I know exactly what I'm doing. Chilling on my own. Whenever you feel like you're lonely, you could hear me. My phone.
- [35:17]
Chris Hayes
The 25 year old artist joins us fresh off the Big Governor's Ball stage in New York in her new album called I Am. Welcome to both of you. Hey, hey. Eamon knows his way around fallback segment. I'm running away with it like the New York Knicks. Hey. All right, so you're the vet. I'm gonna go to you first. Okay. What's on your fallbacks? All right, so I don't know if you saw a couple, I think maybe a couple days ago, maybe last week, JLo, iconic New York resident, had a hot take on subway takes where she made this declaration that if you are not born in New York, you are not a New Yorker. And I took serious issue with that. So unfortunately I'm a big fan of JLo. But JLo's got to fall back for taking that take. And there's a few reasons why as we look at the Knicks. Yeah. Last night. Talk us through it. I'm so, first of all, I'm so glad that you actually brought that up because I won JLo to look at the energy of Madison Square Garden and look at the thousands of people who've been taken to the streets outside of MSG every day in New York and tell those people who are not born in this city, they are not New Yorkers. The energy that they brought, carrying the Knicks back from down 29 points. You can't do it unless you're a New Yorker. I don't want to go too far with it, but we're going to put up the footage of people celebrating. Okay. Eamon. But this is the most American thing ever in the classical sense. And this is what New York and America have in common. We're gonna look at this. Yup. Is you can come here, you can make it anywhere. Right. You're embraced here. I see people come to this country. I see people come to this city. And as you say, you are then of it. And I wanna say one more thing. Cause you know, you are of a legal mind. But if you distill JLo's argument, what it is, it is the birthright citizenship case. Wow. She is taking the birthright citizenship argument that Donald Trump and Maga and applying it to New York City.
- [37:12]
Maya Wiley
Now, Jill O. Is a real New Yorker, bro.
- [37:14]
Chris Hayes
No, she's a real New Yorker. I'm not saying she's a real New Yorker.
- [37:17]
Maya Wiley
I mean, just because you celebrate a team winning and you watch a game doesn't make you from that state. That makes no sense.
- [37:23]
Chris Hayes
Okay, Speak on it. And by the way, as a lawyer, I would say it's not that serious where you're taking it with her. I'm just saying it's not birthright. But, Lexa, go on.
- [37:32]
Maya Wiley
Why does it bother you so much?
- [37:34]
Chris Hayes
Why does it bother you so much? I think that New York is a feeling and it's a belief system. And if you move to New York and you commit your life to this city and you raise your kids here. My kids are born here. I've been here for more than 10 years.
- [37:45]
Maya Wiley
My kids are New Yorkers.
- [37:46]
Chris Hayes
They are New Yorkers. They're proud New Yorkers. But I'm saying I've been here for more than 10 years.
- [37:50]
Maya Wiley
Yeah.
- [37:50]
Chris Hayes
And I've committed to this city. I cheer not just for the teams, but I cheer for this. All right, Lexa.
- [37:56]
Maya Wiley
I'm a real New Yorker. I'm from here. I was born in Flushing. I think that's what makes you a New Yorker.
- [38:01]
Chris Hayes
I can see both sides of it. I can see both sides. No, I'm not calling on you again. I'm going back to Lexa. You gotta go a couple times, bro. Go ahead, please.
- [38:10]
Maya Wiley
Why? You're upset, and I feel you. You know, you're out here, you're paying the taxes, you're doing what you got to do. Your kids are from here, and that's cool. Like, in a way, you are. She did make a point that there's tears to it and that I will tell you this.
- [38:25]
Chris Hayes
There's a bar by Alexa Gates that says something to the effect of some corny people in Brooklyn. And I ain't talking about my neighbors.
- [38:35]
Maya Wiley
You live in Brooklyn?
- [38:36]
Chris Hayes
I do.
- [38:37]
Maya Wiley
Okay.
- [38:38]
Chris Hayes
I'm like, tell us about that bar.
- [38:39]
Maya Wiley
What about it? I mean, I said, brooklyn's full of cornballs. I be on the same type of thing. So I understand. I mean, I enjoy all the things that come with new residents and the Whole Foods and all of that, the nicer buildings. But it is what it is.
- [39:00]
Chris Hayes
Respect. All right, so I'm gonna play a little. Lexa. I've been listening to your music, like, a lot of people, and, you know, there's no such thing as genres. It's just, like, how we. The words we add to music, but you are like hybrid genres like singer, rapper, mellow. So I want to play some of that and then get your fallback. But let's take a listen to stop me.
- [39:21]
Maya Wiley
Let's do it. Aim to get myself together Please don't laugh at my face Sometimes I be feeling so out of place wow, what a world Now I know I didn't know before I know I really never know a thing at all and I could even get fresh in the fall make it rain in the spring.
- [39:43]
Chris Hayes
Wow. Tell us anything you want about the album, but also tell us your fallback.
- [39:48]
Maya Wiley
My fallback? Well, I think we need a fallback on saving money. Yeah, saving. I think we should stop waiting for a special day to put on our favorite outfit, to get a necklace, a bracelet, a ring, whatever, to get dolled up. Just no more saving. Like, go on that trip now. You don't know when you won't be
- [40:10]
Chris Hayes
around, when it's going to end.
- [40:11]
Maya Wiley
Yeah.
- [40:12]
Chris Hayes
So you feel like almost this whole scarcity mindset or wait for later is kind of gone too far.
- [40:19]
Maya Wiley
Yeah. I think the way you spend your day is the way you spend your life. So if you're just trying to save all the time, you're never going to really enjoy that thing you're saving for, you know?
- [40:30]
Chris Hayes
I agree with that. I agree with that to some extent. I also worry about, like, having to be prepared for a rainy day. Is that not good approach to things? Like, you want to be able to say cautious, be cautious. Well, as I understand and I'm just doing my reporting here, Lexa said she was going to make it rain in the spring, so that's when that rainy day is right. But they do say, I don't know if you know this one. Why do rappers make such good meteorologists?
- [40:57]
Maya Wiley
No, I don't know. Why? Why?
- [40:58]
Chris Hayes
Because they can make it rain.
- [41:01]
Maya Wiley
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Pretty much it, though. I say spend all your money, guys.
- [41:08]
Chris Hayes
Respect.
- [41:09]
Maya Wiley
Yes.
- [41:09]
Chris Hayes
And tell us about the album. Gov Ball. That's a big stage. You're 25. It's going great. How did it feel being out there talking about a New York music event? I only got about 40 seconds, but how was that?
- [41:18]
Maya Wiley
It was nice. It was windy. I had a good time. There was a good crowd there. I got some people that love me and I'm really grateful for that. So I just did my best. That's all you can do.
- [41:28]
Chris Hayes
Love it. Yeah, that was great. Well, I also have this vibe that, like, you guys look like opposing chess pieces today. That's my final thought.
- [41:36]
Maya Wiley
A little.
- [41:36]
Chris Hayes
A little bit. Go ahead. I mean there's a little on the New York side. There's definitely a little contention there.
- [41:41]
Maya Wiley
But let's squash the beef. You're a New Yorker, right?
- [41:45]
Chris Hayes
Oh, man.
- [41:45]
Tony Schwartz
That's what I want to hear.
- [41:46]
Chris Hayes
I've been validated. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you. I'm so glad we, we resolved the beef by the end of the segment. That's beautiful. Buried the hatchet. All right, let's go. New York. That album again is you can Google it or get it wherever you stream your music. We will be right back. We talked about workers wage gains being wiped out. In a related story on Wall street tomorrow we're going to see a whole new peak for inequality because SpaceX is moving towards the largest public offering ever. And while there are positives associated with that, including technology and space and satellites, a lot of interesting stuff on the money side. It could make Elon Musk potentially the first trillionaire ever. And that comes while billionaires are also accruing their wealth. An inflection point in the question about whether there is any amount of money that is too much money. And to at least look at that seriously, we have a special guest. Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman joins us tomorrow on that inflection point. I invite you to meet us. I should say meet up with us then tomorrow, 6pm Eastern. We're done tonight. I'm Cyndi Lauper with fellow Cosentyx advocate chef Michelle Bernstein.
- [43:03]
Maya Wiley
We'll share our experiences with plaque psoriasis
- [43:06]
Chris Hayes
with psoriatic arthritis and Dr. Panico will
- [43:09]
Maya Wiley
talk about the possible connection.
- [43:11]
Tony Schwartz
Cosyntyx Secukinumab is prescribed for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, 300 milligram dose and adults with active psoriatic arthritis, 150 milligrams dose. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentyx before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections, some are fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough, had a vaccine or planned to, or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentyx or cosentyx.com Cindy.