← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
"Trump Shutdown" Sparks Outrage as Food Aid, Air Travel Take Hit
00:41:07
Food assistance is on the brink of expiration as the government shutdown hits one month. A federal judge in Rhode Island Ruling ordered the Trump administration to fund the SNAP program for November, despite their vows to let that funding expire. MSNBC’s Ari Melber reports and is joined by Juanita Tolliver.
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- [00:00]
Ari Melber
Imagine relying on a dozen different software programs to run your business, none of which are connected, and each one more.
- [00:06]
Gabe Liedman
Expensive and more complicated than the last. It can be pretty stressful.
- [00:11]
Ari Melber
Now imagine Odoo. Odoo has all the programs you'll ever need and are all connected on one platform. Doesn't Odoo sound amazing? Let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for a fraction of the price. Sign up today@odoo.com that's O-O-O.com hi, I'm Jenny Slate, and believe it or not, someone is allowing us to have a podcast. I'm Gabe Liedman. I'm Max Silvestri, and we've been friends.
- [00:40]
Max Silvestri
For 20 years, and we like to reach out to kind of get advice.
- [00:43]
Ari Melber
On how to live our lives. It's called I need you guys.
- [00:46]
Max Silvestri
Should I give my baby fresh vegetables?
- [00:49]
Ari Melber
Can I drink the water at the hospital? My landlord plays the trombone and I can't ask him to stop.
- [00:55]
Gabe Liedman
You should make sure that you subscribe.
- [00:58]
Ari Melber
So that you never miss an episode. I need to go foreign. I want to wish everyone a happy Halloween with whatever you're doing out there. But if you have the TV on before you, you get out at night or get ready to go, we do have a big show, so we begin with something important. I will mention by the end of the hour, we have something fun and even a little spooky Halloween stuff. So, you know, we're aware what day it is. But we begin with something that matters, whether Donald Trump wants you to know about it or not. Food assistance. The United States is now about to expire tonight because of a government shutdown. And while this is not the first time we've heard parties blame each other for the shutdown, and this has happened before. Donald Trump is not uniquely unprecedented in presiding over one. It is a fact that the Republicans control the White House and Congress. And it's also a fact that Donald Trump promised above all else last year when he was campaigning to improve people's daily lives. Prices, groceries, food, basic stuff. And maybe he was effective on the messaging, but it is now also a fact that he is failing on delivering the results. And what does failure look like? Remember, there are still rules in this country. There are still some emergency mechanisms. When we say there's a government shutdown, it affects a lot of people, but it doesn't mean the federal government stops doing anything. And the courts are still open, of course. Which brings us to the news. Late tonight, a federal judge in Rhode island ordering President Trump to go forward and release the funds which are available for food assistance next month. So a November's worth of funding for what they call snap, because the judge says that's necessary and available. The funds exist. And Trump for some reason didn't see people going hungry as a emergency enough reason to free up those funds. Now, here's exactly what the judge said in the ruling. There's no doubt that the $6 billion in contingency funds are appropriated funds that are without a doubt necessary to carry out the program's operation. Again, as I mentioned, some things get paused in the shutdown. But here the money's available. And hungry children are not the first thing that under law, the Congress wanted to be sacrificed even when there is a shutdown of part of the government. Another judge in Boston found the administration's suspension of those benefits is probably unlawful. They said likely unlawful. They are still weighing a final ruling over there. Now, this matters to 40 million Americans. Food pantries are seeing huge demand. We are here on a holiday evening. Republicans control the Congress and the White House. And there are many ways to respond to this. For example, you could say, this is bad, but we need to reopen the government or this is regrettable, let's all come back to Washington and try to fix it. But that's not exactly the main response we're hearing. Again, we just do the news. We'll just tell you what they're saying. Right. A House Republican said the people on food assistance who haven't pre saved groceries are basically smoking crack and they should stop. J.D. vance had this to say. We're going to find out the hard way with SNAP benefits, the American people are already suffering and the suffering is going to get a lot worse. The suffering is going to get worse. He says 24 million Americans are also looking at what could be higher health care prices because Obamacare's marketplace reopens tomorrow. Premiums could more than double going through next year. That's on average. And the reason is government policy. Republicans won and they are exercising their power to cut the funds that subsidize that. So that's the direct result. Now, when you ask the public, how's this going right now, people do not like the shutdown, that nobody likes higher health care prices. You don't really need a poll for that. But the most recent polling shows more people are blaming Trump and the Republicans for this shutdown right now, as opposed to the Democrats. And I can tell you again, calling it straight, we've seen a lot of shutdowns where there is blame to go around. But this time you do have one party control of Congress and the White House. The Democrats condition, the main thing they wanted was to keep those health care costs affordable, which also is pretty popular nationwide. We're seeing the reaction. We were about to lose our food stamps. Mind you, we both work. My son won't have his milk and we won't have food. I did everything right, Everything right. I was in the Army. I'll go without eating or anything, as.
- [05:42]
Juanita Tolliver
Long as my kids eat.
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Gabe Liedman
Over 4 million people are going to.
- [05:45]
Ari Melber
Lose their health care through the marketplace.
- [05:49]
Juanita Tolliver
There's four of y'. All.
- [05:50]
Ari Melber
It's not feasible. We don't know how long this is going to last. Some of the real people affected, the real voices out in real America tonight. It is a holiday. We're going into the weekend, but a lot of people are not able to enjoy it carefree because of the failure of this president and this Congress to keep the government open. I want to bring in Juanita Tolliver, Democratic strategist, author, host of the archival podcast welcome, Juanita. Happy Halloween. You see there a kind of Republican anger or even threat. It's gonna get worse is sort of their messaging. And I understand that in shutdowns, the blame can go around. I mean, so many things are unusual in the Trump era. This actually isn't. We've seen this before, but there doesn't seem to be any great empathy or concern about fixing it against that polling. How does this all play out in your view?
- [06:46]
Juanita Tolliver
Ari, I appreciate you defining what JD Vance said as a potential threat because based on the reporting there, it's been clear that this contingency fund was earmarked by the USA USDA before the shutdown began as a resource to continue to provide SNAP benefits. During the shutdown, that $6 billion was there. I appreciate the judge in Rhode island saying the Trump administration made an erroneous decision to not use those funds to continue to supply snap. And calling that out emphasizes that this crisis is effectively manufactured by Trump and Republicans decisions to not proactively engage and use those emergency resources that were already earmarked by the usda. I think emphasizing that for the people, especially the people that you just highlighted, emphasizing the very real impact this means for them, missing meals, for their children not to have the milk that they need. It highlights the human face and impact of the 42 million people that will stand to be hurt at a moment when the losses feel compounded. Ari, because people were already struggling to pay for their groceries each month. People Were already turning to credit cards more, I think back in March, it was announced that even collaborations like Buy Now, Pay later between Klarna and DoorDash were introduced because access to food has long been an issue for people to be able to pay from their accounts regularly. And so this, this response to SNAP with JD Vance saying it will get worse, that pain I don't think can be understated at all because it's not something that food banks can just backfill. They cannot meet the response of the need that's going to be presented when these benefits might not be there on cards, as people are typically expecting every single month at the beginning of the month.
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Ari Melber
Yeah, that makes sense. We're at it until into November. We've got, of course, Thanksgiving is the largest travel day of the year next month. But air travel has been taking a hit under the same shutdown effects. Airports have grounded flights, shutdowns, air traffic control, safety issues, staffing shortages. Workers want a deal to reopen the government and they want to be fairly paid. Air traffic controllers have worked over 120 hours out with no pay. I'm a real person, and this is very, very, very difficult, you know, to.
- [09:18]
Gabe Liedman
Effective today, every aircraft controller across the country wakes up to a paycheck that.
- [09:22]
Max Silvestri
Says zero dollars and zero cents.
- [09:24]
Ari Melber
Our elected officials need to come together. They need to find a way to reopen this government, and it needs to be done today. We don't need to wait to see how long our air traffic controllers can last without money. Juanita, you know, I don't want to be unfair and I don't want to hate, certainly not on a holiday. I don't want to hate on this or that airline. But the reason that we've always had the federal government involved in airline safety is everyone feels a little better in the air. Having our taxpayer supported experts supposed to be nonpartisan government officials doing safety rather than some company that might cut a corner. That's why we have federal air traffic control. And yet here we are, I don't want to say cutting corners, but certainly putting the pressure on those people to work for nothing and keep us safe while we have our fingers crossed. Is this any way to run the government?
- [10:18]
Juanita Tolliver
Absolutely not, Ari. And what I recall from the 2018 government shutdown under Donald Trump is that it was air traffic controllers and airline employees banding together to demand their pay that stopped that shutdown. And so I'm anticipating what it's going to look like in airports. And I'm not even sure if it'll have to wait until Thanksgiving, another 25, 26 days from now for them to start to take that action. There have been more reports of increased call outs. There have been more reports of people not coming on shifts, and they have good reason to not show up when they're not getting paid. And so I know that Donald Trump had spent the first part of this year really working to denigrate the faceless individuals who run operations within the government, including these air traffic controllers. And I'm glad that they're speaking out, making it clear that they're real people, making it clear that they, too have bills to pay, that their services will not be rendered indefinitely for free. And so I'm looking to see how they organize like they did in 2018.
- [11:23]
Ari Melber
And, you know, people talk a lot of trash about the government or the DMV or this or that. I don't know many people who say, you know what, we don't need anybody doing airplane safety. We don't need anybody checking on it. Let's just fly blind, you know, literally. I want to show you something, Juanita, about where the buck stops, because I've mentioned there's a debate here in the shutdown, and that happens. But whether you put it all on the opposition party or the majority party or the White House, here's what Donald Trump said the shutdowns always boil down to back before he was in office. Take a look.
- [12:00]
Gabe Liedman
If there is a shutdown, I think it would be a tremendously negative mark.
- [12:04]
Ari Melber
On the president of the United States.
- [12:07]
Gabe Liedman
He's the one that has to get people together. I would get everybody together, and we'd have a budget and they've all gotten together.
- [12:13]
Ari Melber
Well, that's because they don't have the right leader. You don't have the right leader.
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Gabe Liedman
This is the president of the United States has to get this done.
- [12:23]
Ari Melber
It's up to the president. Juanita, I want to get your response when we're back responding to that in 90 seconds. Of all people, Marjorie Taylor Greene. She's been challenging her party and the speaker of the House, which is so interesting because there's a woman, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who didn't just drink the Kool Aid, she chugged it. Sometimes you go so far, right, you come out on the other side. The jokes about what is to the right of MTG as she goes after Donald Trump. Well, she made headlines for taking on Trump and his biggest enabler in the House, Speaker Johnson, because the shutdown strategy, she says, is a failure on health care. Some Republican senators want at least some kind of bipartisan effort to work on the Senate side to get the government open. They're pushing back also on Trump's demands, which, while the filibuster has long been derided, he views it as one more thing he could try to break to get even more power. And even Republican senators are saying no to that push. Juanita is back with us as promised. And in an era where we see more and more political conversation and engagement online and in the podcast space, I want to bring in Maika Irfan, host of the Micah Erfan show and the three Wonks Podcast. Welcome to you. Excited to get you in on this at first, as promised. Juanita, your thoughts on OG Trump saying it's always up to the president to fix this, as well as the MTG of it all.
- [13:51]
Juanita Tolliver
I mean, he's a failure by his own definition, Ari. And in his failure, he's dragging down the American public in the process and threatening access to basic food for children, for elderly people, for people with disabilities, and he doesn't seem to care. I point back to that contingency resource fund, Ari, and when you mentioned the MTG of it all, I'm like, sure, I. I don't have anything positive to say about Marjorie Taylor Greene, but I will say that she clearly sees what the rest of the Republican Party doesn't see, and that's the real impact on regular people, the same people who elected them to their positions. And so I guess the question to the Republican Party at this moment is how bad does it have to get for you to actually do something to deliver for the people that you are elected to protect?
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Ari Melber
Michael?
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Max Silvestri
Yeah, I mean, I think what you're seeing right now is Marjorie Taylor Greene is speaking for the MAGA base, which was promised an affordability agenda, which was promised a golden age. And what. What have we actually received? Unemployment is up. We see inflation is up. Trump has given us the largest tax hike in American history and the largest benefit cut in American history, and he still managed to increase the debt by $2 trillion in 10 months. He promised us a golden age, and that's not what we have received. And I think the reason why Marjorie Taylor Greene is getting so much traction is she's speaking to the real economic frustration which. Going. Which is going on right now with a lot of Trump voters were betrayed.
- [15:21]
Ari Melber
Hmm. Micah, as you know, the speaker has kind of been leading from behind, to use the old phrase. I mean, he's not exactly out here clearly pushing or negotiating. He seems to be a little bit afraid of Trump and frankly unwilling to Bring the Congress, the House together. And yet here he was saying this.
- [15:41]
Gabe Liedman
I've been a little busy, as you know, the frustration of the pressure that.
- [15:45]
Ari Melber
Is being felt, the anger by the president and by me and all of.
- [15:48]
Max Silvestri
Us that we're in this situation at all.
- [15:50]
Ari Melber
Do your basic job. Okay, so he's busy. Do your job. The fact check here is early October House will stay out of session next week. Politico was reporting while the Senate still worked on the shutdown. October 10th, Speaker Johnson keeps House lawmakers away, canceling another week's session. And now back up to this week, keeping the House absent. Johnson marginalizes Congress and himself. That's at least the view of the times. What do you see there, Micah?
- [16:22]
Max Silvestri
I mean, he's not doing his job, as you're saying, right? He won't. He refuses to swear in a newly elected Arizona Democratic congresswoman because he knows that if she's sworn in, she's going to vote to release the Epstein files. And the Epstein files are going to come out whether they like it or not. They refuse to negotiate with Democrats, and yet they want to blame Democrats for the shutdown. They control the House, the Senate and the White House. And they believe that they're entitled to Democratic votes for a budget which essentially allows huge cuts to health care, the Affordable Care act and Medicaid that they've authorized to go through. Democrats are not going to support that. They're not entitled to Democrats votes. And they should be doing their job of negotiating with the Democrats to get a budget forward that actually keeps vital health care programs intact.
- [17:12]
Juanita Tolliver
Juanita, I feel like when I see those statements like that from Mike Johnson, I and confused about why people don't understand how the general public is losing confidence in government, confidence in Congress, confidence in the leaders of this nation because they say things like that, do your job. It's literally his job and responsibility right now to keep the government open or get it open to provide basic services. And it's just, it goes back to the question I asked earlier, Ari, like, how bad does it have to get for people to start actually delivering for the public? I do wonder also in response to that, how this is going to show up in elections. We have them next Tuesday, especially in Virginia, where we know that a lot of federal employees who are at home not being paid right now are going to show up at the polls as well as in the midterms next year when they're even with rigged maps is a chance for voters to show up and cast their ballots against the very individuals who are explicitly causing them harm. This is a manufactured crisis. It does not have to be this way. And Trump and Republicans are dictating how bad this gets.
- [18:26]
Ari Melber
Yeah, I hear you on that, Juanita, Micah, thanks to both of you. Happy Halloween. By the end of the hour, we have something special. It'll take you all the way back to the rock and roll classic Almost Famous, the Power of Rebellion, and this. Have you seen the movie Fast Times at Ridgemont High? That is a. That's a classic. I lived it, man. I didn't just see it. Yeah, Obama lived it. And Director Cameron Crowe is here to unpack it by the end of the hour. Also, the immigration agents who are trying to bring Halloween into their enforcement. It's a controversial move. It's the way we live today. We have that coming up. But also new revelations on Jeffrey Epstein and the sweetheart deal he got from Republican prosecutors as Trump continues to run from what looks like a looming vote to release the Epstein files, whether he's in them or not. That's next. Pandora makes it easy for you to find your favorite music. Discover new artists and genres by selecting any song or album and we'll make you a personalized station for free download on the Apple App Store or Google Play and enjoy the soundtrack to your life. It's Cybersecurity awareness Month and Lifelock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. Lifelock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft. Guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and stay protected. With a 30 day free trial at lifelock.com special offer terms apply. Ondeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team or bridging cash flow gaps, Ondeck's loans up to $250,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star Trustpilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes@ondeck.com depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by On Deck or Celtic Bank. On Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. New evidence released in the Jeffrey Epstein case, which continues to haunt Donald Trump. What we have now tonight are reports from two outlets, the New York Times and Bloomberg's, that raise the stakes and show how there were people years ago who doggedly tried to follow the money in the suspicious, mysterious world of this financier, Jeffrey Epstein, the New York Times reports that the banking giant JP Morgan had all had alerted the Feds to more than a billion dollars in suspicious activity and transfers by Epstein. The kind of money transfers that could show the kind of basically financial building blocks of a human trafficking regime. Only one problem. They waited and waited and waited. That powerhouse bank, which by the way has ties to Democrats and Republicans, only flagged what they called the suspicious billion dollars of transfers after Epstein died. This was over 4000 transactions and related to all kinds of different individuals. Some might ultimately be completely legitimate or not crimes, but others clearly raised the question of money laundering and human trafficking. In a related report today, Bloomberg reveals that in 2007, federal prosecutors had a case on Epstein. This is one that wasn't charged and it doesn't mean he was guilty of it. But when people used to ask why didn't they go after more stuff with this guy? Well, some people did. Indeed, there was a lying prosecutor working doggedly to build a money laundering case against Epstein. This was previously undisclosed and it looked at the large amounts of cash which could be both dispersed to women around the world, but she was suspected to have victimized. The probe included grand jury subpoenas, target letters went not only to the women who might have received money before and after certain incidents, but it would look at the transactions of all of these very wealthy people who paid Epstein sometimes suspiciously large sums of money for no clear service. So there was this is what I mentioned to you, a 53 page draft indictment. This was not filed in court to be clear, but it could have been because it got to the stage of drafting and a prosecution memo that ran 80 pages. And it said in the memo that the Bush DOJ had the receipts and the goods and they should go forward indict him on money laundering, money laundering I should say. And operating an unlicensed money transmitting business. If you think about how the taxes fouled up Al Capone, this was a strong prosecutor saying, if we can't get him on the really bad stuff that isn't yet proven, let's get him on the money piece that is following the money at the heart of the Epstein pro. And yet for all of those written documents that could have made the case, that prosecutor was held back by more senior people in Bush doj. And there was of course infamously a sweetheart deal which delayed any justice for Epstein's victims for a long time. Now there's also rumors about blackmail and we don't just throw that term Around. Indeed. To be clear, there has not been a legally proven blackmail case against Epstein or an extortion case against others. This is one of those things that is a open question, although I can tell you that it looks like the DOJ never ran down the leads aggressively. And that raises questions of whether they were tied to too many important people or some other corruptive issue. But Trump's own Commerce Secretary talked about Epstein's blackmail. That's what his M.O.
- [24:02]
Max Silvestri
Was.
- [24:03]
Ari Melber
You know, get a massage, get a massage. And what happened in that massage room, I assume was on video. This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever blackmailed people. That's how he had money. I assume way back when they traded those videos in exchange for him getting that 18 month sentence. I have no knowledge, but my assumption is there was a trade for the videos because there were people on those videos. What you hear there is the voice of one Trump Cabinet official completely contradicting another Trump Cabinet official because AG Bondi said there's no blackmail whatsoever, while their boss, Donald Trump just wants everyone to stop talking about it. But thanks to the intrepid reporting there of Bloomberg and the New York Times, we have more evidence than we had yesterday and frankly, more questions facing the Trump doj. We're joined by New York Times legal writer Emily Bazelon. Welcome.
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Juanita Tolliver
Thank you.
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Ari Melber
Good to have you. Both of these new accounts raise a lot of different questions, but first and foremost, they suggest that this level of alleged human trafficking couldn't really operate without some intermediaries. That, yes, sometimes women and girls are abused on an individual basis and there can be money involved, but this level was something that involved banks and banks that didn't do a very good job of what they're supposed to do. That's, that's one thing that comes through. Your thoughts on it, right?
- [25:35]
Emily Bazelon
Well, this story today is red flags that JP Morgan says that it was showing to prosecutors reports that the bank was sending. And the red flag nature of this was that there were huge amounts of money changing hands going through the bank in these transactions. And that that in itself can be a mark of human trafficking because when it's done on a large scale, it can be associated with huge amounts of money like this. I think what you can see here is that JP Morgan, which has been criticized in past New York Times coverage, has not looked good for continuing to handle Epstein's finances for so long. Now JP Morgan is trying to say, hey, we did flag these transactions for the Justice Department, for the prosecutors. We were trying to. And no one did anything with this information, then that leads to the work of the career prosecutor you were talking about, who was trying to track the money laundering and start, you know, really keep an investigation going. That is a time and labor intensive kind of investigation to run. It requires a lot of support from the higher ups. And so then the question is, well, what happened? It would be really interesting to talk to that prosecutor and find out what his or her side of the story is.
- [26:54]
Ari Melber
And what good is an alert from the bank if it comes after the target is dead.
- [27:01]
Emily Bazelon
Right. I mean, I think that is of limited utility. You could argue that the bank at that point is just trying to cover itself and there isn't really very much value in what the bank is disclosing. At the same time, it's still important now, because this investigation, the lack of. Of a real serious punishment for Epstein, yes, there were some consequences, but not the kind of criminal punishment we might expect. All of those questions continue to swirl. And because there have been a lot of questions raised about the money from both Democratic and Republican senators, among lots of other people, it remains of interest what happened here. And I think in particular why these signals were not sent earlier and why the whole kind of follow the money on the part of at least one prosecutor, why that didn't go further, why this indictment was not filed. As you started out by asking.
- [27:58]
Ari Melber
Yeah, because. Because again, that's very far advanced in the process. A lot of evidence had gone into it, the grand jury process, et cetera, may have played out. And they say, I have a case. And then what you get is this sweetheart deal for Epstein. Democratic Senator Wyden has been on this for some time, and he's talked about the financial receipts. Take a look. Now, somewhere in The Treasury Department, Mr. President, locked away in a cabinet drawer, is a big Epstein file that's full of actionable information. Follow the money details about his financing and operations that await investigation. I think that's fair. And the more we learn about it, the more that it's clear that while the DOJ at times has reviewed itself, there was an inspector general review of Epstein's death. The Bloomberg reporting mentions a review of the unusual circumstance of the sweetheart deal. So. So it's all in there. And yet, in essence, that's the DOJ kind of investigating itself. And it seems like there's a lot of smoke and they haven't really pursued those other leads and avenues. So do you think, based on what we know, I mean, I'm asking you to speculate in a way, but based on what we know, that Wyden is onto something, that if there is a vote in the House to release these files, if that's enforced by a judge, even if Donald Trump doesn't want it, the rule of law holds and these lawyers inside the government have to respond or be held in contempt to go to jail themselves. If we actually got all the files, you think there'd be important material there.
- [29:36]
Emily Bazelon
It certainly seems like there's a trail to follow here. And understanding why that indictment was not filed in this case about the finances seems like a really good path of inquiry. Right? A way to focus the conversation now that we know about that indictment. Because look, there can be good reasons for prosecutors to decide not to file charges. They feel like they can't prove probable cause, they won't be able to present the facts confidently, persuasively to the grand jury. But it's not a very high standard, right? I mean, famously, grand juries indict almost everybody. We're not talking. The prosecutors are supposed to think they can prove the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, but at the grand jury stage, they don't have to do that. It's a one sided part of the process in which they present information and then there's an indictment. And, and with someone like Epstein, where there are all these questions of leverage. Right. If you have someone indicted for more serious crimes and charges, that's a way that prosecutors jack up the pressure on a defendant to plead guilty and accept more of the sentence. Here we have the sweetheart deal. So then you wonder, well, was it allowed? Was this deal allowed to go into effect because this other part of the indictment wasn't filed and so Epstein didn't have to worry about that part. It had already been taken care of for him. Those are the kinds of things that you want to know or the questions you want to ask looking at these elusive, still undisclosed files.
- [31:09]
Ari Melber
Yeah, great points. It's Al Capone taxes. That's the theory of the case. And given what we now know, that there's evidence that Epstein was involved in these criminal enterprises his co conspirators in prison for, makes the money laundering case in retrospect look especially strong because either you believe that every dollar he ever got was legitimate or you believe that some of it was for illegal activities. And the second door looks a lot more likely just from what's public. Emily, thank you very much and Happy Halloween.
- [31:40]
Emily Bazelon
Thank you. Happy Halloween to you.
- [31:43]
Ari Melber
Appreciate it. We're going to fit in a break. We have something fun by the end of the hour, but next we turn to immigration agents in a new type of mask. Can't make it up. That's next. Pandora makes it easy for you to find your favorite music. Discover new artists and genres by selecting any song or album, and we'll make you a personalized station for free download on the Apple App Store or Google Play and enjoy the soundtrack to your life.
- [32:10]
Juanita Tolliver
You know how everything's a subscription now.
- [32:12]
Emily Bazelon
Music, movies, even socks.
- [32:14]
Ari Melber
I swear if it to continue this ad, please upgrade to Premium plus Platinum. Uh, what?
- [32:18]
Emily Bazelon
No. Anyway, Blue Apron this is a pay per listen ad.
- [32:21]
Ari Melber
Please confirm your billing.
- [32:23]
Juanita Tolliver
Oh, that's annoying.
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Emily Bazelon
At least with the new Blue Apron.
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Juanita Tolliver
There'S no subscription needed. Get delicious meals delivered without the weekly plan.
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Ari Melber
Wait, no subscription?
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Emily Bazelon
Keep the flavor.
- [32:31]
Juanita Tolliver
Ditch the subscription.
- [32:33]
Emily Bazelon
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- [33:12]
Ari Melber
Donald Trump has encouraged ICE to be unbridled and today on Halloween, we're seeing what that involves. In la, agents were seen wearing Halloween masks. Chucky and Momo person who took the photo says the agent in the Chucky mask went out of their way to roll down the window like they wanted to be seen. DHS was asked about this and responded, happy Halloween. Now consider There have been two ICE involved shootings in LA over the last two weeks. The LA Times has reported on that aggressive conduct. The Democratic governor of Illinois asked specifically for the administration to pause ICE crackdowns during Halloween given that it's a confusing time. People are in costumes, children are out and about here, was the Trump administration's reply.
- [34:05]
Emily Bazelon
No, we're absolutely not willing to put on pause any work that we will do to keep communities safe.
- [34:09]
Juanita Tolliver
The fact that Governor Pritzker is asking.
- [34:11]
Emily Bazelon
For that is shameful.
- [34:18]
Ari Melber
And round and round it goes. But keep in mind what's happening out there, what's being done with your tax dollars in your name. Trump now claims that he could send any branch of the military to patrol you Americans on the home front. That he can do, quote, whatever he wants. Constitutional fact check, false. There are strict limits on military use at home. That's why it seems so jarring when we see too many soldiers in our cities. The Pentagon, though, still prepping a 20,000 person National Guard force for, quote, quick reaction anywhere inside the US this is ongoing and it's not a Halloween trick. Now coming up, we have something that will change the tone around here. Halloween came early for those no Kings protesters mocking Trump with all these costumes. Remember that. But we have something special as we reflect on the most popular Halloween costumes out and about. These, of course, worn by citizens, not government officials. And that includes Penny Lane, who you might remember from Almost Famous when we come back.
- [35:25]
Gabe Liedman
I'm glad you were home.
- [35:27]
Ari Melber
I'm always home. I'm uncool.
- [35:30]
Juanita Tolliver
Me too.
- [35:31]
Ari Melber
You're doing great, dude.
- [35:33]
Gabe Liedman
The only true currency in this bankrupt.
- [35:35]
Ari Melber
World is what you share with someone else when you're uncool. The connection of being uncool. But sharing a love for something could be music, writing or both. That's the story in Almost Famous, which draws on the real life experiences of Cameron Crowe. The acclaimed director started out as a rock journalist. He joins us live right now on Halloween. His new memoir is the Uncool. It references the scene we just saw from Almost Famous, which, remember, won him the coveted Oscar for best screenplay. And the Oscar goes to.
- [36:14]
Gabe Liedman
Cameron Crowe for Almost Fame.
- [36:17]
Ari Melber
Never get hurt. You always have fun. And if you ever get lonely, you just go to the record store and visit your friend looking on.
- [36:29]
Juanita Tolliver
SHE SINGS HER song.
- [36:38]
Emily Bazelon
Since its release last month, Cameron Crowe's new film, Almost Famous has been a hit with both critics and audiences.
- [36:43]
Gabe Liedman
The movie was a love letter to music and to my family.
- [36:50]
Ari Melber
Music and family. Here, here. Of course, many of Crowe's films have become classics that really channel what it means to be young, to be a rebel. Fast times at Ridgemont High. Singles say Anything. Jerry Maguire, Anybody. And many more. Cameron Crow, back on the beat. Welcome back.
- [37:09]
Gabe Liedman
Good to see you, Ari. What's going on?
- [37:12]
Ari Melber
Just. Just a Friday. Being uncool in the newsroom. You know that scene, baby, that's. That scene gives you chills every time when they're singing on the bus and what music does. And so here you are reflecting on the themes that you brought to life in more than one medium. Tell us about that in the book.
- [37:36]
Gabe Liedman
I just really, you know, I love making films. I love writing scripts. One of my favorite things is to go back to my first language as a writer writing about music. Nobody looking over my shoulder Just writing about the pure joy of kind of the magic carpet ride I was able to take as a young guy when bands and artists and heroes that I dared to meet opened all kinds of doors for me and told me their secrets and took me on the road for long periods of time. And it was a kid in a candy store for a young writer.
- [38:14]
Ari Melber
Candy store Halloween. We're going to show you all together. Hey, we, you know, on the news, we do. We. That's what we do. We do these transitions, Right? Well, here's the real Penny Lane. Of course, people remember Kate Hudson and what we see as a popular costume these days. See if we have this. Yeah. So decades later, people are still bringing out that costume. We also have, of course, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, a very young Sean Penn. When you think about him today. And one more after that from say Anything, how do you feel seeing your characters come alive every Halloween?
- [38:58]
Gabe Liedman
I love it. I was on Instagram today, and I saw, like, three dogs that had been dressed up like Penny Lane. Russell Hammond, Billy Crudup's character, and William Miller, the young journalist. So it's like, you know, this indelible time in life becomes costumes on a dog. It's really. It's kind of the dream, really, especially on, you know, a Halloween like this one. It's. It's all about the characters. I just love being able to create some characters that last that you still want to kind of bring around.
- [39:30]
Ari Melber
Is it. Yeah. Is it that their motivations last? We'll put the photos back up so people could take them in, because, okay, anything gets dated, you say, I got the new phone, the old phone, we got new social media. Nobody uses MySpace. But the motivations that you uncovered seem to endure.
- [39:51]
Gabe Liedman
They're usually based on real people. Jeff Spicoli was based on a real guy, and Sean Penn's portrayal was based on a real guy. And I always feel, Ari, that life is the best writer. You know, you can be banging your head against the wall trying to make something up, and somebody will be talking to you, or a person will walk in the door, and they're just naturally so classic that you just realize they're better. I'm going to write a character that's like that, and that tends to be particularly the personal stuff. You know, when it's really achingly true, that is always the stuff that kind of resonates the most and becomes kind of universal. Penny Lane was a real person, too, and I just. I like writing from the heart and writing stuff that just. It lives forever. Inside of you, and you just put it on the page and let it sing, you know?
- [40:45]
Ari Melber
Yeah. And people want to belong. So when we're young, that social pressure is everything. You don't have a wider world. That's why in middle school, being cool is the only thing which. Which the book discusses. I want to read where you say, and this was referenced in this. In the clip we showed, but the version in the book, you say you made friends with them, said Lester Bangs. He sighed loudly and coughed. That was your mistake. This exchange about the rock and roll and hanging out with them. They made you feel cool. And I met you. You're not cool. He pronounced it with playground derision.
- [41:16]
Juanita Tolliver
Cool.
- [41:17]
Ari Melber
He left me with a battle cry and a laugh. In the middle of the night, you write, we're from Blanking San Diego. We're uncool. Flipping something and making it your unity. And yet. And yet, when people grow up and you're not in school anymore and you're an adult, hopefully you develop other values that are more important than whether you're trendy among a certain group of people.
- [41:42]
Gabe Liedman
I thought it was a badge of honor, and I think that's what Lester Bangs is saying there. You know, to not belong means there's. There's something coming around the corner that you'll find where you will belong. And for Lester, and for me, too, it was music, which, as a young guy, like interviewing a lot of the people that I was just so happy to have a chance to interview them about their music. Like me. My mom had skipped me three grades in school, so I was not cool. I was like a little mascot to a lot of them. But going out and chasing a dream of being able to talk to musicians that I really loved, they were uncool in their early days, and music was.
- [42:24]
Ari Melber
In their own way.
- [42:25]
Gabe Liedman
Yeah. So music was the community that they found. And so many of the songs or the songs are like the cries of loneliness sometimes for the time in their life when they had no one. So I got accepted into that world, and they made me feel like I belonged. But I never wanted to join the band. That would be uncool. You know, the thing is, you know, you're not in the band. You're there as a journalist, you do your job and you go home. But to have a front row seat to people like David Bowie and Led Zeppelin and so many the Eagles, as young musicians trying to make it was just an amazing kind of private club. A little bit before music became the enormous commercial venture that it is Today.
- [43:15]
Ari Melber
With the 40 seconds we have left. What happened to the rebels? The musicians now are truly brand businesses. And the countercultural left grew up and is now told, at least by some, that they've become the establishment scolds. And what's cool is to be a conservative, you know, podcaster. I explain it well.
- [43:40]
Gabe Liedman
You know, there are people that are not marketing themselves constantly 36 hours a day. You know, it's. It's good to find people that are just still telling stories or making music or doing stuff from the heart. And I think you are one of those people. And it's just. It's just authenticity is the great, great winner in this, in the big sweepstakes for me. And you can always smell authenticity. You can always feel it in music and movies, in life. And, you know, it's good to say this on a day when everybody's going to be wearing masks, but whoever wearing masks are, you know, whoever you really are, you can feel it. You can smell it when somebody is really putting themselves out there. And that, to me, is everything.
- [44:29]
Ari Melber
I love you ending it on that note, Cameron Crowe, such a thrill to always talk to you and appreciate everything you said, including your kind words. The book is the uncool.
- [44:38]
Gabe Liedman
Yeah, man.
- [44:38]
Ari Melber
We'll be right back.
- [44:41]
Gabe Liedman
Hey, everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host, Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody knows your name, and we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to where everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts.