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The Beat with Ari Melber
Trump's Iran War Now as Unpopular as Height of Iraq, Vietnam Wars
00:41:08
President Trump’s war in Iran is facing historic disapproval. MS NOW’s Ayman Mohyeldin reports and is joined by Molly Jong-Fast and Jared Bernstein.
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Rachel Maddow
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Eamon
listen to your favorite Ms. Now shows anytime As a podcast Enjoy new episodes of Morning Joe, Deadline, White House and the Rachel Maddow Show.
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Alex Jones
Every small D Democratic muscle that we have is flexing.
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Eamon
Plus the Last Word with Lawrence o', Donnell, the Beat with Ari Melber, the Weeknight and more on the go wherever you get your podcasts for ad free listening to all of your favorite shows. Subscribe to Ms. Now Premium on Apple Podcasts. I'm Ayman Mohiddin in for Ari Melbourne. Americans are turning on Trump as the war in Iran hits their wallets. Trump's war is now as unpopular as the Iraq war was during the years of peak violence in that country, which was 2006. And of course, the most infamous war, the Vietnam War. In the early 1970s, 61% of Americans calling the military action in Iran a mistake. Americans hit that level of disapproval after just two months of war with Iran. During Iraq, it took over three years to reach that height. And for Vietnam, it actually took six years. A striking comparison as the Iran war rattles the economy and the end game remains unclear for about almost everybody. Gas prices, well, you know the story. They have jumped to $4.39 per gallon. That is the largest one day increase since the ceasefire was announced back on April 7th. And since the war started, the average price of gas in this country has now risen more than 47%. And in Chicago, gas just topped $5 a gallon for the first time in four years. All of this as Americans and activists around the world rallied today for Mayday, an annual day of protest that typically centers around labor rights. You see here demonstrations from North Carolina to Chile and France. Here in the U.S. more than 500 organizations hosted over 4,000 events across this country, the largest gathering since the no Kings protests that took place earlier this year. Now this year, these protests taking on new meaning as Donald Trump and protesters continue to clash.
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Ankush Khadori
Trump is putting us on the brink of an economic crisis when he should be investing in things that help improve our economy.
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Rachel Maddow
We have war.
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Molly Jung
We have the Strait of Hormuz closed. We have all of the things that are contributing to economic distress for the
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Rachel Maddow
middle class and the lower class. Discussing when people cannot pay for the
- [03:10]
Molly Jung
medication of their kids or for health insurance.
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Rachel Maddow
I'm here because it's Mayday. And we would like to support immigrant
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Molly Jung
rights as it relates to workers.
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Rachel Maddow
Immigrants are workers, too.
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Eamon
We have adults that are going without
- [03:21]
Jared Bernstein
food at times so their children can eat.
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Eamon
We're in the richest country in the world.
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Jared Bernstein
That should never be happening.
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Eamon
Adults without food, People can't afford to pay medicine. And this comes amid shocking reports that the true cost of this war is actually closer to $50 billion, according to U.S. officials. That's actually double what the Pentagon has estimated in congressional testimony this week. They're saying it's about 25 billion. Now, all of this is bad news for Donald Trump. There's no doubts about that. His approval rating plummets ahead of contentious midterm elections that are just months away. Joining me now is Molly Jung, fast New York Times opinion writer and Ms. Now political analyst, and Jared Bernstein, former chair of the Council of Economic Advisors under President Obama. It's great to have both of you with us. Sorry, excuse me. Under President Biden. Molly, it's good to have you with us. What do you make of these protests that are taking place and the anger that is now really palpable among everyday Americans?
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Molly Jung
Yeah, I mean, there's no historical precedent for someone who runs for president and says, I'm gonna make everything cheaper. The other guy doesn't know what he's doing. I'm gonna, you know, he had this thing, the weave, and he had it on bacon. Remember his weave on bacon? Which was sort of to say he was gonna make bacon cheaper. Okay, so fast forward. It's a year and a half later. Gas is right. 47% more expensive. Americans hate it when gas is more expensive. And if you had sold this war to which way he would at least try to say, like, well, there's some threat, but nothing. He just was like, we're doing this because they might have a nuke. They already had a nuke. Or we got rid of the nuke.
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Eamon
We obliterated the nuke.
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Molly Jung
Right. It was like the most nonsensical war sale ever. And now anytime anyone asks him about it, he says, like, it's gonna, it's gonna be over any minute. Which is not an answer. That is cooling the oil market.
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Eamon
You and I were talking a little bit before we got on the show about what Republicans do here because they are also seeing the poll numbers, and for them, some of them still wann office and they have elections to win. And so they are looking at Donald Trump's approval ratings. And they're saying this is not a guy who's going to get either his party or individual races across the finish line. Yeah.
- [05:32]
Molly Jung
You know, you and I were actually talking about the nightmare scenario, which is this reporting in the Atlantic talking to all of Trump's inner circle. And they were saying, you know, an unnamed source was saying that actually the only thing that's keeping him in check at all is the midterm elections.
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Rachel Maddow
Right.
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Molly Jung
Which, if you think about it, is scary.
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Eamon
Right.
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Molly Jung
It's quite scary because this guy does not act like someone who's being kept in check. And I think the real question is, look, the Republican. The primaries are almost over. And once the primaries are over, it'll be. I'll be curious to see if Republicans try to break from him, because right now with these approval numbers, it's gonna be, you know, we're looking at the generic ballot, and it looks like Republicans are underwater by about 10.
- [06:12]
Eamon
Yeah. So, Jared, the Washington Post ABC poll found that 60% of Americans fear that the Iran war is going to lead to a recession. How do you read the economic numbers right now? When you see the cost of gas, the growth in the GDP for the first quarter or this quarter, I should say, and then in addition to that, the rising instability in markets around the world.
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Jared Bernstein
Well, this is one of those economies, Eamon, where if someone asks you, how's the economy doing? The correct answer is, whose economy are you asking me about? Because at the top of the scale, a lot of people are doing fine. Of course, there's great investment in artificial intelligence. And by the way, if you're a domestic oil producer or refiner, you're looking at some very big profits coming down the line. But for the rest of American consumers, life was already unaffordable before this hit. So when Trump alternated from saying affordability is a hoax to moving into a mode where he's actually making things much less affordable, whether it's tariffs, whether it's the war, whether it's budget cuts to healthcare and nutritional support. A lot of people were already feeling strained on affordability before this, and now it's multiples worse. Now, one thing the administration has said, well, a lot of you are gonna get tax refunds, so calm down. Well, guess what? According to our calculation, the average amount that people are gonna have to spend extra at the gas pump has already eaten up more than the refund that folks are gonna get. And part two, if you're at the bottom end of the income scale, you don't get much refund anyway, so it's as if he misheard them when they were talking about people's problems are affordability. As if he heard them to say make life more unaffordable for Americans, sir. Cause that's what he's gone out and done.
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Eamon
Well, speaking of making life more affordable for people, Donald Trump and his Republican allies, they've been trying a new message this week saying the gas prices will go down quickly once this war is over. Take a listen to what he said about that earlier. Take a listen. The stock market is hitting record numbers. We have more people working in the USA today than we've ever had working. As you know, it's, it's in many ways now when this war end, gasoline and oil and everything, it's going to come tumbling down, gasoline type. But when this is over, you'll have a world without a nuclear weapon with Iran, oil and everything is going to come tumbling down. That is not going to happen quickly. It's not going to happen before the midterms. I mean, obviously if you just follow the way futures are being traded looking into November, they're still high. Right.
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Jared Bernstein
So predictions are hard, especially about the future. But let me assert with great confidence that unfortunately the gas price will not get back to where it was before the war by the end of this year or anything close to it by the end of this year. Every model I've seen, including my own, and this is pretty reliable kinds of forecasting because we have a lot of examples of oil prices going up and down. So we have a good history to bench this off of. And the gas price is going to remain elevated relative to where it was pre war for a long time. And by the way, if he thinks talking about the stock market is going to assuage the people who are struggling right now, the vast majority of that value is held by the top 10%. So again, we have a very bifurcated economy right now and the vast majority are really struggling with these affordability issues.
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Eamon
And the Republicans are running out of excuses. Let me play for you what Republican Congressman Buddy Carter had to say about who's to blame for the state of the economy. Take a listen.
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Alex Jones
Remember, President Trump promised he'd make us safer and more prosperous. He's made us safer. He's making us safer and making the world safer now. Yes, we've seen some gas price fluctuation. Gas prices will go back down. Remember, high gas prices are the work of the Democrats.
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Eamon
High gas prices are the work of the Democrats. As if the Democrats actually have any power Right now or in control. They're not the ones that launched tariff wars. They're not the ones that launched a war in Iran that closed the Strait of Hormuz. They're not the ones firing drones at Saudi oil refineries.
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Molly Jung
We're a year and a half into this presidency. At some point, you're gonna have to say, I actually am the president. Remember, Republicans control the presidency, the House, the Senate. There's not, you know, there's not some secret Democratic branch that's being controlled. And they control the Supreme Court. And I have to say, like, when you hear the new, younger, angrier Ayatollah, the son of the ayatollah that Trump killed, like, that guy does not sound like he wants peace. So like you, he. You see that Trump is saying things like, it's almost over. The war's almost over. We saw today Pakistan saying they may have gotten a peace, but, you know, the straits are closed. Right? And there's not a whole lot of incentive for the Iranians to come to the table and make this work. And even if to say, tomorrow they reopen the strait. And it was like it never happened, which is not gonna happen. But even if that happened, getting prices to go down does not happen immediately. And that's one of the things with the tariffs, like today, Trump was talking about doing more tariffs. And this is a, you know, this economy that it, Consumers are, you know, these numbers are crazy. Consumers have no confidence. And what they need is to not make things more expensive.
- [11:43]
Eamon
Yeah, Molly, I just wanted to get you get some thoughts on this. Right before we came on the air, the conservative fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in Louis, Louisiana, excuse me, temporarily blocked access to mail order abortion pills nationwide. Mississippi now reporting this will have immediate repercussions on abortion access, given that medication abortions account for the majority of abortions in recent years. Your reaction to this development?
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Molly Jung
You know, as the daughter of a second wave feminist who worked really hard for Roe, and, you know, all the women of that generation considered Roe v. Wade to be the law of the land. Donald Trump installed three supreme. The three conservative justices, and, and he was able to overturn Roe. You know, there was a lot of talk of whether he would go after the abortion pills, which have been the reason why we haven't seen as many illegal abortions because these pills are safe and effective. So to see this happening is really scary because we know this is a court that's highly partisan, that just, you know, pretty much ended the Voting Rights Act. Six, three, very partisan. If this kicks up. You know, this was a Trump judge and a George Bush judge. And now if this kicks up to the Supreme Court, who knows what will happen?
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Eamon
Yeah, specifically, especially this Supreme Court, specifically on this issue which they've already expressed their opinions previously before on Molly Junk Fast. Jared Bernstein, thank you to the both of you for starting us off this hour. Greatly appreciate it. Coming up, an Ms. Now exclusive about the rush to indictment from the Trump Justice Department. Plus our special look at truth and conspiracy theories and Alex Jones going shirtless and freaking out over the Onion.
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Alex Jones
The state court just blocked the little rat confessed Satanist from coming in to wear our skin for months while we launched an operation.
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Eamon
We are going to talk to that supposed rat and confess Satanist in question. Ben Collins from the Onion is going to join us live. But first, how Trump is playing games with a Nixon. We're back in just 90 seconds. Don't go anywhere.
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Rachel Maddow
Home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, the briefing with Jen Psaki and more voices you know and trust. Ms. Now is your source for news, opinion and the world. Learn more at Ms. Now.
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Eamon
If incompetently presiding over not just one of but the lowest rating in history is the reason I should be fired, we should both be out of a job because we're not doing too good either. Jimmy Kimmel mocking Trump's low approval ratings which are in free fall amid this unpopular war with Iran. Today marks 60 days since the start of the war, which is a key deadline under US Law. It is a deadline by which the presidents are supposed to get approval from Congress for military action. Well, this morning Trump administration seemed poised to defy that law with Pete Hexith claiming somehow that the clock had somehow been stopped.
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Alex Jones
We are in a ceasefire right now, which our understanding means the 60 day
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Eamon
clock pauses or stops in a ceasefire. So they're not in. That's it's our understanding, just so you know.
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Alex Jones
Okay, well, I, I do not believe
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Eamon
the statute would support that. So you see some clear skepticism there from Virginia Senator Tim Kaine. And today Donald Trump himself said that he shouldn't have to obey the law at all. No other country has ever done it. It's never been in as you know, most people consider it totally unconstitutional. Also, we had a ceasefire, so that gives you additional time. We're on our way to another victory, a big victory. And I don't think that it's constitutional what they're asking for. These are not patriotic people that are asking. Just a quick fact check. That is absolutely wrong. Many countries around the world require legislative approval to go to war. Trump seeming to suggest there are no limits to when and how he can go to war, though, and that it's unpatriotic to even question him. Well, after that, Trump suddenly declared that, in fact, hostilities with Iran had been, quote, terminated. Which actually might be news to the thousands of American troops that are still in the region. But the Constitution is clear here, folks. In Article 1, Section 8, Clause 11, you'll read the following quote, the Congress shall have the power to declare war. Now, this law that Trump is playing games with actually dates back to the Vietnam era. After years of protests and tens of thousands of American casualties, lawmakers passed the War powers Act in 1973 to do just that, to ensure the collective judgment of Congress and the president are used when US Armed forces enter into hostilities, just as it was outlined in the Constitution. Well, Trump himself has already compared Iran to Vietnam.
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Rachel Maddow
What do you say to the American people who question how much longer this will take? Obviously, you know that they are having
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Eamon
you hear such a disgrace. Did you hear what I just said?
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Alex Jones
Vietnam.
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Eamon
How many years was Vietnam? But as we have shown, it took six years for Vietnam to get as unpopular as Iran's war is now after just 60 days. Still ahead, we're going to talk more about news on Trump's rush to indictment. We turn now to a Ms. Now exclusive report about chaos in Donald Trump's Justice Department. A whistleblower alleging a senior Trump DOJ official ordered federal prosecutors to, quote, rush through that indictment of the Southern Poverty Law Center. Remember, the DOJ last week charged the civil rights group with financial crimes. It accused it of defrauding donors by using their money to secretly pay informants inside extremist organizations. Something the SPLC says it has done for years and was not a secret to the doj. Why the rush charges, you might ask? Well, this comes at a time when the acting Attorney General, Todd Blanch, contender to permanently replace Pam Bondi as the attorney general, is making a series of, quote, splashy moves to land that top role. The New York Times is reporting that by firing Bondi, Trump has created an environment in which officials seem to be fighting for their jobs, resulting in ever greater incentive to execute his increasingly extreme demands. Blanche also taking every opportunity to publicly declare loyalty to the president. Watch. I love working for President Trump. It's an honor to be part of this administration. If he chooses to nominate somebody else and asks me to go do something else, I will say thank you very much. I love you, sir. Yeah. So Blanche is ramping up prosecutions of Trump's rivals, which have been largely unsuccessful under Bondi, bringing a new case against former FBI Director James Comey this week after the first indictment was dismissed. Now the Times adding in, bringing the Comey case now Blanche might be seeking to keep Trump satisfied that his campaign of retribution is in full motion. Democratic lawmakers, though, condemning that case as largely meritless. I think it's a huge waste of time.
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Alex Jones
I think it's one of the reasons so many experienced and seasoned prosecutors are leaving the Department of Justice.
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Eamon
I think the lawyers who are pushing these kinds of cases really should be held accountable. Meanwhile, another contender vying for Trump's attorney general nod, D.C. u.S. Attorney General Jeanine Pirro making splashy moves of her own, trying to get some attention, preparing an appeal after a federal judge quashed the DOJ subpoenas into the Federal Reserve chairs Jerome Powell, despite Pirro announcing that investigation was actually shut down.
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Alex Jones
When a federal judge believes that he can stand in front of the door of the grand jury and prevent a prosecutor from going in when the United
- [19:58]
Eamon
States Supreme Court has said a prosecutor
- [20:00]
Alex Jones
can go in on suspicions or rumor, we've got to appeal that decision.
- [20:06]
Eamon
Well, GOP Senator Thom Tillis, who refused to advance Trump's new Fed chair nomination until the probe was dropped, said in quote, part, I have been assured the appeal is simply to challenge the basis for judging on the motion to quash the subpoenas. It would not in any way constitute a basis for reopening the investigation. He is not backing down. Tillis issuing another ultimatum, this time for attorney general, saying he will not support any candidate who, quote, equivocated on the January 6th rioters. Now, that could cause another block, considering the attorney general contenders are staunch Trump loyalists and Trump himself has pardoned those very same rioters. Joining me now is Ankash Kadori, former federal prosecutor and senior legal writer with Politico. And Juanita Tolliver, Ms. Now political analyst and award winning author of A More Perfect Party and host of the archival podcast. It's great to have both of you with us. Ankush, I'll start with you. We have the rushed Southern Poverty Law center indictment. We've got the new Comey charges and the appeal of the judge's order blocking those Powell subpoenas. Are these attempts to garner favor for the attorney general? Roe, is that what is happening here? Is this purely political for people contending for that top job?
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Ankush Khadori
You know, it's hard for me to say what's exactly in each of these people's minds. Certainly it's all consistent with an effort to sort of audition for the role. You know, Todd Blanche, none of this is new for Todd Blanche. He's been conducting himself like this the whole time, even while he was under Pam Bondi. He's really not that different from her on any of the merits at all. The cases are tenuous at best. I think the Comey one is borderline frivolous. The SPLC case, I mean, I was a criminal fraud prosecutor, and the idea of charging that case as a criminal fraud case is sort of beyond the pale to me. As for the, you know, the Powell subpoena issue, you know, Pirro says that they have to appeal that. I don't see any reason why, except that she is trying to make a point for the president. I would just say something. As to Tillis, if you don't mind, you know, we'll see where his sort of convictions sort of finally land. I mean, he was the deciding vote to get Emile Beauvais out of the Judiciary Committee and onto the Appeals Court of the Third Circuit. Bovet should not have been in that position either. And he, like Todd Blanche, of course, defended Trump throughout all of the criminal cases, including the criminal case surrounding January 6th. So if that is the standard, I don't really see how Tillis could vote to advance even Blanche. So I agree. I mean, there's a lot of kind of hand waving going on here. A lot of cases that are tenuous at best, and I don't think they're going to get any better. One very last. Sorry, if you don't mind, point of clarification. Yeah, please go left, Politico. I'm very happy. So I just wanted to let folks know.
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Eamon
No, good. Good to good to get on the record correctly with that. Juanita, to pick up on the SPLC report for a second. Jamie Raskin says the DOJ is, quote, bringing cases without probable cause or any reasonable expectation of winning at trial and saying, quote, the onslaught of bogus cases is to intimidate and stifle criticism of his administration's policies. Your thoughts?
- [23:22]
Rachel Maddow
I appreciate Representative Raskin for highlighting that explicitly and this report around the whistleblower because not only is he amplifying something that has been covered up in this investigation, but also he's counteracting the national narrative that Trump, Blanche and Patel have been promoting since these charges, since this indictment of the Southern Poverty Law Center. We saw that ridiculous press conference from the FBI officials and the DOJ officials, but also Donald Trump in an interview, ignoring the interviewer's Questions just to pile on the Southern Poverty Law Center. The goal here is to set a public negative narrative, cause them harm, disrupt the work that they've been doing for decades, largely in tandem with the FBI, up until, I think, October 2025. And so it's just, it just highlights how this is politically motivated. It highlights that the, the point here is to cause pain, to damage their reputation. And I think a large part of it is motivated by some of the groups highlighted by the Southern Poverty Law center being groups that are aligned with Donald Trump, being groups that are aligned with this White House, whether that's Moms of Liberty, Proud Boys, whoever else was on their list. But this is part of that package, retribution. And again, I go back to Representative Raskin highlighting this, because what's critical when an organization or an individual is targeted is that they have public support behind them. And Raskin is providing that by blowing the lid on this report with the Southern Poverty Law center, the case being rushed. And since we know that winning is not a priority for this administration, it highlights the political harm that they're attempting to do.
- [25:04]
Eamon
Juanita, to put a kind of finer point on that, we think of this president, his retribution campaign, usually going after people that he believes aggrieved him, whether it's former officials or organizations or what have you. How does the, the SPLC fit into that narrative? You're saying that it's more about the organizations that support Donald Trump who perceive or see the SPLC as a threat to their ideology. But in what way does combating racism fit into that argument from groups that you've identified?
- [25:40]
Rachel Maddow
Look at who supports Donald Trump, the MAGA base that is standing firm with him. No matter what the economy looks like, no matter what their cost of living needs are, no matter how bad their lives are, they are sticking beside Trump. There is, if you draw a Venn diagram, overlap that is likely between the groups identified as hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law center and Donald Trump's base of supporters. That's where I think the alignment comes in. That's where Donald Trump sees value in this. But, but honestly, Eamonn, I don't see this resonated with anybody outside of that base of support for Donald Trump. This is not an expansive effort for him, but if anything, it is something to reaffirm support for the MAGA base who is looking at this news and celebrating it, going online, posting about it, giving Trump Cash, Patel and Todd Blanche a thumbs up that this is the type of action that they want to see from their government.
- [26:34]
Eamon
Ankush Give me your thoughts on this case. Are there any legal merits to what is happening with the Southern Poverty Law Center? You talked about having worked at the doj. The DOJ works with the Southern Poverty Law center to go after a lot of these hate groups. So it seems that if there was any organization that the DOJ had visible insights into for many years, it would be an organization that it works with almost on a regular basis. To then suddenly turn around under this administration, under this president, suddenly saying the SPLC is, you know, involved in criminal activity is quite the stretch.
- [27:09]
Ankush Khadori
It is quite the stretch. And, you know, if the SPLC is able to amass evidence to back up their claims, which I assume that they will be able to do, that is going to be a very potent fact in terms of the merits of the case. You know, look, I see the case as falling into sort of two buckets. One is this claim that the donors were defrauded by certain representations made about how the money that they donated would be used. And the claim is that the money was used to pay informants rather than to do what the organization claimed. If you read even the representation that is alleged to be false, I don't even think it's arguably false even on the DOJ's theory. So the fact that they may have gotten a bad grand jury is one thing, but I think they're gonna have a very hard time proving at a criminal trial that the alleged misrepresentations were actually intentionally false and misleading. The second component of it is this money laundering component of it, which is derivative of the fraud claim. You need an underlying crime for there to be a money laundering charge as well. So that would sort of fall apart if the fraud case were to fall apart. So I think it's a very, very shaky case. I don't think it should have been brought in the first place. And I would be surprised if it results in a conviction. But really the case shouldn't have been brought at all.
- [28:18]
Eamon
So when you look at, you know, Juanita, when you take what Ankush just said there about the merits of this case, when you take a Look at the DOJ's revenge cases against former officials that we have up there on screen going after his so called enemies list, what does all of this say about the state of the Department of Justice under Donald Trump this second term?
- [28:38]
Rachel Maddow
That it effectively is Donald Trump's personal law firm, that they are willing and ready to do his bidding, as you mentioned at the start of this segment. Amen. Looking at people like Pirro who's like, we are going back after Powell after they just withdrew that case or even after the judge dismissed it, writing that there's zero evidence and that the subpoenas equate to harassment. When you look at Blanche coming out with this case against the Southern Poverty Law center, coming back at James Comey, the fact that they are doing this with no basis, no evidence, no solid case, as my CO has just described it, shows that the point is appealing to Trump. But one thing that's flashing in my mind is how are they going to escalate this? Remember, Pam Bondi brought some of these cases that were dismissed. Whether that was against New York Attorney General Letitia James, James Comey as well. Right. She presented them. They went nowhere. Dismissed in court. So at some point, Trump's gonna wanna start to win. And that raises a question in my mind about how these people vying for the attorney general spot are going to escalate. What are they gonna do next? How is this going to get worse for the people being targeted by Donald Trump and this doj? Because that's all I see happening, especially with this open seat to fill in the attorney general spot.
- [29:55]
Eamon
Juanita Toliver, thank you so much. Ankush, I want you to stay with me because I want to ask you about this new ruling that we just got. Apparently that could ban the abortion pill nationwide. And then later in the show, the end of Infowars with Alex Jones. The satirical site the Onion is aiming to take it over. I'm going to talk to the Onion CEO. Straight ahead,
- [30:18]
Rachel Maddow
home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, the Briefing with Jen Psaki and more. Voices you know and trust. Ms. NOW is your source for news, opinion and the world. Learn more at Ms. Now.
- [30:36]
Eamon
So right before we came on the air, we had some breaking news out of the conservative fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in Louisiana. That court temporarily blocked access to mail order abortion pills nationwide. Ms. Now reporting this will have immediate repercussions on abortion access given that medication abortions account for the majority of abortions currently in this country. Political reporting and appeal to the Supreme Court is likely coming down the pike. Joining me now once again is Ankush Pardori, former federal prosecutor and senior legal writer, and Juanita Toliver, MSnot political analyst and award winning author of A More Perfect Party and host of the archival podcast. I'm not sure she's gonna be with us for this segment, but let me get your thoughts, Ankush, on this decision and what you make of this ruling.
- [31:25]
Ankush Khadori
Yeah, it's a very, very unfortunate ruling. I mean, this has been a concern for reproductive rights advocates for many years and particularly in the wake of Dobbs, this is really one of the sort of doomsday scenarios I think, that many of those advocates have been really, really concerned about, precisely because this is, as you just mentioned, predominant form of seeking this form of treatment. Now, I think it would be very, very interesting to see if the Supreme Court will stay this ruling. As you know, and I'm sure many of the folks at home know the Supreme Court has been very willing to stay adverse rulings for the Trump administration that have been inconvenient for them over the course of the last year and sort of let them get their way while those things percolate up until to the Supreme Court on the ordinary merits calendar. This seems like precisely the sort of case that would justify that sort of intervention, given the extraordinary scale and seriousness of the consequences that are at play.
- [32:20]
Eamon
Yeah. And that's what I want to ask you about right now. Given the scale of this decision, how long do you think it will be before we see a Supreme Court, because there is a term, and correct me if I'm wrong, that when there is such a disruption to a pattern of life or to something that is still being worked its way through the courts, to have a decision of this magnitude that is we just mentioned, affects the majority of abortions in this country, can cause confusion in the system, can be disruptive to both patients that are in need of it, doctors who are prescribing it, companies who are making it. And that is severe.
- [32:57]
Ankush Khadori
That is extremely severe. I mean, and this is precisely the sort of case where you would want to maintain the status quo because of that very elaborate sort of social and policy infrastructure that you talked about. The amount of people and institutions who would be affected and need to have to readjust their behavior for this sort of thing. As you may have seen recently, the New York Times just sort of did a very interesting investigative report on one of the sort of a shadow docket decision from about a decade ago. And that was one of their concerns. Now, the conservatives on the court at the time who blocked an Obama initiative, that was their concern, which is all of the industries that would need to be come into compliance with the ruling at issue in that case and how it would affect them. That sort of rationale should apply equally, if not with more force here, particularly given that you're not just talking about industries that need to be accommodated, but women's lives.
- [33:49]
Eamon
Anklesh Khadori, thank you so much for sticking around and helping us break that down. Really appreciate it.
- [33:54]
Ankush Khadori
Thank you.
- [33:55]
Eamon
Ahead, conspiracy theorist Alex Jones has lost his platform in fours now, the satirical outlet the Onion is on the verge of taking it over and it is driving Alex Jones nuts. The Onion CEO joins me live next. This is not a joke. The satirical outlet the Onion is set to take over infowars, the site that is run by notorious conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. Yes, you heard that correctly. Here's Alex Jones originally reacting to the news parody site taking over his creation. In typical Alex Jones fashion, uh oh,
- [34:41]
Alex Jones
folks, the Onion has stolen the shirt off of Alex Jones's back at this point. And it's, it's a sad thing to see. Are you an employee of the Onion now, Alex? Don't worry. We got a bunch of legal avenues.
- [34:52]
Eamon
We've already checked with lawyers, so they're in deep.
- [34:53]
Alex Jones
I'm already suing the Democrat Party law firms. Already got civil rights lawsuits. Just because you're wearing my shirt don't mean you're me.
- [35:02]
Eamon
Yeah. Infowars was forced to shut down after a string of high profile defamation losses in cases filed by Sandy Hook families. Jones, who falsely described the shooting as a hoax, was ordered to pay over a billion dollars. He has since filed for bankruptcy. NPR reports lawyers for the families who have yet to collect a penny from their judgment against Jones say they are pressing on and look forward to the Onion's ultimate takeover of Jones's corrupt business. Now, the Onion had been hoping here to take infowars over this week, but a judge kicked the case to the Texas Supreme Court. For now, Nobody is running InfoWars. If you actually go and visit the site, you'll be greeted by this message off air. Meanwhile, the Onion is gearing up. The site has already added its signature Onion to the infowars logo. The Onion has been around for decades, of course, and it hasn't let up during the Trump era with headlines like these. On the negotiations with Iran, for example, it says, Trump warns Iran to accept his ultimatum or face wrath of next ultimatum. Or on insider trading, Trump wins $60 on Kalsheet bet he'll bomb Iran. Or on the high cost of living, Trump calls groceries a hoax. Now, all this helps explain why Jones is mad. He spent years boosting Donald Trump. In 2016, he claimed that Trump called to thank him for helping him win. Which brings us to last night, Jones's very last show on infowars. And in his last monologue, Jones, well, you'll see he lost it complaining about the Onion Watch.
- [36:50]
Alex Jones
They're turning the power off at midnight. Private Texas are coming in to close the doors, and they're gonna act like they've got their big ass victory. But notice the state court just blocked the little rat confessed Satanist from coming in to wear our skin for months.
- [37:05]
Eamon
We don't start fights, but we finish.
- [37:07]
Alex Jones
The next phase starts.
- [37:08]
Eamon
The real war begins now. Joining me now is Ben Collins, CEO of the Onion. Ben, how are you preparing for this next phase? The real war starts now. Is this takeover for real?
- [37:23]
Alex Jones
Yeah, it's for real. I'm preparing for it. Shirtless, by the way, Eamon. That's the answer.
- [37:27]
Eamon
Well, you're definitely in better shape than Alex Jones is.
- [37:30]
Alex Jones
Well, thank you very much, Eamon. It's very messy to say, look, yeah, no, we're ready to go. You know, we're waiting. It didn't get really technically kicked up to Supreme Court. We actually appealed up at the Supreme Court to get a stay lifted. A stay is just a temporary pause given while things get sorted out. We are very excited to take this thing over. And more. More than anything, you know, a victory happened last night. You know, Alex Jones, for a decade, harangued these families. More than a decade at this point. And for eight years, in two weeks since this original lawsuit was filed, you know, he's been. He's been trying not to pay up. He's been trying to prevent this $1.4 billion judgment that he owes these families from being paid up. He's doing everything he can. He's moving his stuff around. He's moving his assets around and all these things. We just stepped in and bid on it because we're the only person who. We're the only people in the world that could really go toe to toe with him with this harassment campaign. Had a lot of fun so far. We're gonna have a lot more fun in the future. I do recommend tonight go to the onion.info we'll have a little bit more in the way of that. I cannot guarantee shirts on in that one, though.
- [38:39]
Eamon
You bring up an important point about doing this for the families. And I want to know, why does the Onion want to take over Infowars? And you're joking around about it, but there is something important about what the Onion is doing here. And I want to hear from you why it is important for the Onion to take over Infowars.
- [38:57]
Alex Jones
Yeah. So, first of all, no one else would have been on this thing. This was an auction 17 months ago. We'd been on it nine days after the 2024 election when everybody else was a little scared to do anything at all. That might be a, you know, a dangerous thing to do for a person who was previously a friend of the president. Apparently not anymore. So we put in our bid and we just kept at it. We didn't want this guy to get away with this thing At a time when no good news seems to come out anymore. We just wanted to provide a little bright spot in the world and now these families hopefully can have that. They've been through hell, frankly. They've been through this uniquely American tragedy of having their kids murdered in the worst way possible. Dropping them off at school and then never seeing them again. And then literally within minutes, within moments, Alex Jones said it was a false flag hoax and wouldn't let it up for years and harangued them in the courts and outside of the courts. You know, a lot of these people had to move from their homes in Connecticut just to see some peace again. We're hoping, Renali, we won't only just provide some peace but also make fun of the whole cottage industry around this. He did this so he could sell pills. You know, a lot of these people are now realizing that's good business, get people riled up, get people really afraid and sell them the magical mystery cure to all of these things. We have a lot of terrain to cover making fun of that whole industry and we're looking forward, we're looking forward to it in the next few years.
- [40:23]
Eamon
I have to play for you and our viewers one more time. Alex Jones's rat freak out one more time. Take a listen.
- [40:31]
Alex Jones
The state court just blocked the little rat confessed Satanist from coming in to wear our skin for months while we launched an operation.
- [40:39]
Eamon
We don't start fights, but we finish them.
- [40:41]
Alex Jones
The next phase starts. The real war begins now.
- [40:45]
Eamon
Your thoughts on being called a Satanist
- [40:51]
Alex Jones
haven't, you know, haven't been a dues paying Satanist in a very long time. Eamonn wouldn't even know where to start to be honest with you. But that's where he gets his information brother. Like he just makes stuff up and tries to backfill it and has been doing this for a while. It's really interesting seeing it all play out. He, you know, we put installed Tim Heidecker as our, our creative director, one of the best comedians in the world. And he immediately took a. Alex Jones took a headshot, sorry, a mug shot from a fake TV show from 10 years ago and said that Tim Heidegger's mug shot was real. The guy doesn't know what he's talking about. The issue is, you know, a lot of his followers follow him all the way to the end and they do the harassment for him. And we're just, we're looking forward to stopping that. Look, today's a big day. It's a, you know, it's victory for regular people. People who want to know that lying for a living and making millions of dollars off of it is maybe not a good and profitable way to live your life.
- [41:49]
Eamon
Yeah, and we'll be, we'll all be watching what you guys do with the new site once that is completely taken over in the organization. Ben Collins, thank you so much, man. It's great to see you as always. Really appreciate it.
- [41:59]
Alex Jones
You too, brother. Talk soon.
- [42:00]
Eamon
Take care. We'll be right back with one more thing. I'm down on my luck. Marco, please, just one question. Just tell me which country you're attacking next. I'm trying to win some money on poly market. I'm trying to win some money on polymarket, man. Just give me a wink. If it's Kazakhstan, it's illegal for dogs for gamble Triumph the insult comic dog hounding the Secretary of State Marco Rubio and mocking Trump's approach to foreign policy. That does it for me. You can catch me on the weekend. Primetime Saturdays and Sundays at 6pm Eastern.
- [42:39]
Alex Jones
You're great at protecting your data, but lots of places could still expose you to identity theft.
- [42:43]
Rachel Maddow
I thought it was safe.
- [42:45]
Alex Jones
If that happens, LifeLock gives you a
- [42:47]
Eamon
US based restoration agent who will stick
- [42:49]
Alex Jones
by your side from start to finish. Phone calls, filing documentation, preparing insurance claims. Your agent handles it all.
- [42:57]
Rachel Maddow
In fact.
- [42:57]
Alex Jones
In fact, we're so confident restoration is guaranteed for your money back. Isn't it nice to have someone like that on your side? Save up to 40% your first year at lifelock.com Pandora terms apply.