← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Trump's War Problems Multiply: Gas Spike, Defense Budget, F-15 Shot Down
00:41:15
MS NOW’s Ari Melber reports on the latest developments in the Iran war, and is joined by retired four-star Army General Barry McCaffrey and Ambassador Dennis Ross.
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- [00:00]
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- [01:01]
Ari Melber
I'm Ari Melbourne. We begin following this breaking news right now. U.S. forces searching for the missing second crew member of this F15 fighter jet that was shot down over Iran. One crew member rescued and is now we can report safely in American custody, but the other crew member remains missing. We have these images from social media that show some of the search operations. The F15 is the first jet shot down by Iran that we know of during the course of of this war that President Trump started. That has been an air war. The New York Times is reporting the second combat plane, also a second combat plane crashed in the region. That was earlier today, but that pilot was safely rescued. The A10 Warthog attack plane went down near the Strait of Hormuz about the same time that an Air Force F15E was shot down over Iran. The paper reports the Warthog was hit by Iran. The Journal notes, according to people familiar Mississippi NOW has not independently confirmed this. We can tell you though that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth as recently as three weeks ago was asserting as a matter of US Observation or intelligence, a claim that looks quite different tonight, that Iran's air forces and defenses, he said had been basically been destroyed. Iran has no air defenses. Iran has no air force. Iran has no navy. Their missiles, their missile launchers and drones being destroyed or shot out of the sky. Most Americans supporting anything that keeps our troops safe would like that to be true. That sounds like a positive. But as with so many other issues, with the Trump administration in general and certainly with the propaganda around this war, the question is, is that good thing true? And if not, was Mr. Hegseth saying something he knew to be untrue, another lie in war? Or was he mistaken? And now we are seeing very tragically perhaps, what happens when those claims don't add up, when Iran might be stronger than we were told over time. The details of how the F15 was shot down remain unclear. Tonight, CNN reports their US intelligence assessments that indicate Iran has missile launching capacity and that it could be essentially significant. For example, they note that roughly half of Iran's missile launchers are still intact. Thousands of one way attack drones remain in the arsenal. All this is happening days after Trump, of course, gave what was by any historical account the latest national address for explaining the start of a war ever. Now, it was pitched as a kind of a communications process that he wanted to reboot what has clearly been a flagging effort. Some would call it just incomplete or even lazy. We've never seen the United States start a new war and not have the president address the country before and at the day one of said war. Now, he asserted then that it would be about two to three weeks and we would be through this. Of course, saying that would seem to give a deadline to the enemy, something that the administration had previously said they didn't really want to do. And it also raises the questions about what are the terms on which the United States is willing to end a war that many Americans oppose that they don't feel is strategically necessary? And yet, because of Trump's decision, has now changed the energy, economic and strategic position of the United States in the region. U.S. military is building up forces to at least threaten credibly or deliver a ground assault. Iran is getting ready, the Journal reports, with preparations that include drives to recruit millions of Iranians, including children, hardening defenses on Kharg island, boosting guided missile systems and laying mines along the coastline, booby trapping facilities. All of the things that Americans, whether you are a foreign policy and news junkie or someone who just sort of keeps an eye on this every couple years, these are all things that Americans remember from the long involved protracted presence of American troops in our past Middle east wars. The fact that we have a mighty military that is really the envy of the world is again According to U.S. national Security, a good thing. But whether having a mighty military guarantees you short term victory or geostrategic and political regime change in countries where the US Is an occupier and people are fighting for their lives, freedom, liberty and way of life. We have learned the occupier's lesson repeatedly. Indeed, Donald Trump broke the vows he made in the 2024 campaign to not be an occupier and start so called forever wars. Amnesty says Iran is recruiting children as young as 12. That would be a war crime. The White House now says the cost will top one and a half trillion dollars. That's a 40% hike. The news tonight at this hour on the search is that they are looking for the second crew member from the F15 shot down over Iran. NBC reports US helicopters involved in that search also already came under fire from Iranian forces, but they believe everyone on board is safe. So that is the emergency operation here with everyone in America of course concerned about the wherewithal and the health safety of these people fighting on our behalf under the Trump administration's orders and the larger questions about where we stand in this war for U. S Objectives. That is how we begin our Friday evening news program. And I want to bring in General McCaffrey, retired four star army general and Ms. Now analyst and ambassador Ross, expert in Mideast affairs. He's worked in the Bush, Clinton and Obama administrations. For both of our guests here, obviously we are balancing the import of this emergency operation. And also I'll start with you General. Where the United States stands on our strategic goals. Are we going in the right direction in your view and anything you can tell us about this kind of search and rescue?
- [06:36]
General McCaffrey
Well, you know, it's an odd situation. The US and IDF airpower has achieved a devastatingly successful air campaign. 10,000 or plus targets essentially. We've lost a couple of aircraft, enemy fire, a bunch more on the ground in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere. It's been an incredible performance. And to put in historical context, in Vietnam we lost 3700 aircraft to enemy action. We lost 4000 some odd helicopters. So I think by and large the air campaign, air naval campaign has been successful. But again, you know, you're flying a F15E 1500 miles an hour enemy aircraft. Any aircraft fire from the ground? Just heavy machine guns, 50 caliber machine guns, big SK little bullet can hit an aircraft and bring it down. So it's not without its perils. And the current search and air rescue attempt in Iran is extremely perilous. There's a very complex, very well trained, expensive capability. The air force maintains to go in and get downed pilots. That's what's working now. But it involves putting AC130s and air to air refueling of Black Hawk helicopters and these heroic air Force pararescue people on the ground. So again, it's a war. These people are trying to kill our troops and it's a lot of risk. The big risk, though, is strategic. The straits are closed. We're not going to be able to go in and get ATU fissile material out of Sfahan on the ground. That would be Khe sanh in Vietnam. 5,000, 10,000 troops on the ground. We're not going to be able to capture Carg Island. It's 400 miles to sail the amphibious ships up the Persian Gulf under fire. So Mr. Trump didn't think through this strategically. He's in a box.
- [08:52]
Ari Melber
Ambassador.
- [08:55]
Ambassador Ross
Well, I think, look, General McCaffrey put his finger on what is the most strategically important element in this war, which is who controls the Strait of Hormuz. We can weaken Iran dramatically, which we have. As General McCaffrey said, the military campaign by the US and the Israelis by any measure is extraordinary in terms of its success. The only measure in which it's not a success is that you create a political measure for it as opposed to a military measure for it. The Clausewitz said war is the extension of politics by other means, meaning war is an instrument, a tool, a means. It is not an end. If this war ends and Iran is control of the Straits of Hormuz, meaning it controls 20% of the world's oil and it controls as much as a third of of the world's fertilizer, then you have all countries in the world are somehow dependent on that, capable or susceptible to being blackmailed. Think about just all the looking at the map, Qatar, the uae, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain. If the only way they can export is by getting the Iranians to approve it, think of how the Iranians will manipulate that control. How about same for our allies? It's fine and good for the president to say they depend on the oil. We don't. Well, the irony is if you have one pool of oil worldwide and you reduce it by 20%, then everybody bids up the price. So the fact is we do depend on it. Even if you say we don't get our oil from there because it affects the world supply of oil, it affects the price that we pay.
- [10:37]
Ari Melber
If Ambassador, you've, you've warned that with the president now floating timelines like two to three weeks, if they don't get the straight back in two to three weeks, and that were real meaning if you took the president's word and we Left in this condition, then you warn that could be a geostrategic benefit for Iran, that after all this and the great military operations that the general described, they would hypothetically have a benefit. Explain that.
- [11:05]
Ambassador Ross
If they control what can go in and out of the of the go, they will then pick and choose who gets to do it. They can say which ship can go. They can say, here's the toll we're going to charge. They can, almost on a whimsy basis, they can say, okay, you know what? We're not satisfied with what you've been doing lately. Your politics, as you approach us, are not acceptable. So we're going to raise the price to you. They will have everybody, in a sense, in a position where they can blackmail them. And you think our friends and allies aren't going to respond under circumstances where their economic well being is being controlled by the Iranians? So we have a collective stake in making sure here. The President's right. There's a collective stake in making sure. The Straits of Tehran, I'm sorry, Straits of Hormuz are open. But the fact is it does raise a question about going into the war. Where do the Straits of Hormuz figure in the planning? It is pretty remarkable that we're in the situation that we are one month into the war. I would just pose the question. It's fair and good to say that the allies depend on this even more than we do. But given the realities, given the number of targets we had to hit, given the force limitations, as much as we built them up that we have, why didn't the administration go to the Europeans a couple months in advance? Especially when the President said, we're sending this armada and say, you know, we're trying to negotiate this, we really want a diplomatic settlement, but it may not work. And if it doesn't work, the Straits of Hormuz are a fundamental strategic interest for all of us. It's an international waterway. It has to be kept open. Why don't we work out now what the contingency plan will be if that becomes threatened. Instead, you wait until day 12 of the war and suddenly say, gee, the Europeans depend on this more. They need to come help us. Well, it's not a surprise that basically they were hesitant at that point. Even if, to be honest, they do have a stake. When the President says they depend on it, they do depend on it. But if you want them in on the landing, they gotta also be in on the takeoff.
- [13:15]
Ari Melber
General, your view of that issue, as the ambassador describes it, we've heard so much about mission creep in the Middle East. We've got a lot of seasoned experts saying that the Trump problem here was a mission deficit, that we didn't start with a clear mission, and now we're reaping the confusion of that.
- [13:33]
General McCaffrey
Well, first of all, I totally endorse Ambassador Ross's viewpoints. You know, we got into this thing, decision by whim, policy by, by dictate. We didn't consult our allies. And by the way, it's not just European or India or Japan oil. It's our allies in the Gulf who have given us basing rights and been with us for, you know, 50 years. So, but let me make one additional caution, because I think poor Mr. Trump is actually put on the ground right now, 10,000 plus combat forces. I think more are headed that way. They're calling up National Guard units. I think he's putting together what he thinks is a capability to either seize three islands, fortified islands, near the Straits of Hormuz entrance, or possibly go to Carg island, or even worse, go into Natanz and Esfahan and put engineering units on the ground and dig out fissile material. It's not just £1,000 either. It's five tons of lower enriched uranium and other material. We'd be there for 10 days, two weeks, we'd be besieged. He actually still has the capability to put us in a tactical disaster if he doesn't think about what he's doing. So I'm alarmed when I see the chief of staff of the Army, General Randy George, with his multiple combat tours and Purple Heart and experience getting fired in the middle of a ground combat campaign. Now, most of it, I think, was Hegseth and his compadres up there are basically eradicating DEI. You know, we've got 18% of the armed forces are women, 31% are minorities, and Hegseth is trying to fire the black brown women senior officers. So we don't have very good leadership in national security.
- [15:38]
Ari Melber
Important details that you both have lived and knowing really how this works, what the professionalism looks like and the concerns about the Trump sort of partisan meddling in what's supposed to be an objective officer corps and Pentagon, as well as, of course, the geostrategic points you made. So I think we really benefit from both of you on this tonight. The general, ambassador. Thank you. I'm gonna fit in a break, our shortest one of 90 seconds. When I come back, my breakdown of what it means that we just had Trump fire the Attorney General and why the rule of law is actually holding. That's what made Trump so angry at former Attorney General Bondi. When we come back,
- [16:16]
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- [17:17]
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- [17:35]
Ari Melber
President Trump has now fired his top officials handling immigration and the Epstein debacle. It's a clear sign that Trump sees his administration's failures in these big areas now. Washington is still absorbing Trump's firing of Attorney General Bondi yesterday after a brief 14 months on the job, and she was often overshadowed in terms of what her general duties required by her key failures on Epstein. As part of Trump's steady drip of frustrations with her, the Journal reports Bondi stoked expectations about releasing an Epstein quote, client list. She raised the bar on herself and then later basically all but conceded she was lying. Just as she lied to MAGA influencers by handing them binders claiming to contain Epstein files, which did not. A kind of fraud against your own base, daring them to speak out. And it didn't make a lot of strategic sense because these are influencers in the MAGA Trump punditry online, they post every day and a lot of them posted angrily about being lied to. Bondi also overseeing a DOJ that was losing in court. Now that's often because Trump's demands are flatly illegal. Troops in the streets, global tariffs without Congress abusing power to try to indict critics with no evidence. So Bondi's demise is also a story about the courts working. And sometimes the way these things go down and the way the Washington elites and some of the media quite frankly talk about it, we can miss that. We get into the personalities or what's happening next before making sure we understand that 14 months just went by. There was a lot of failures. You see just a slight selection, handful of headlines about those failures on your screen. But this is a story as well about the courts working, albeit slowly. It's a story and a development about Trump losing, admitting it in public, having to replace his AG and the rule of law holding. Bondi did not win a single case in Trump's vendetta to try to make the DOJ a sword against enemies. And Politico reports that was part of Trump's decision to oust her. And the good news for the rule of law tonight is that Bondi's replacement faces the exact same judges, courts and rules of evidence that dealt her all of these losses in an almost absurdly long list of Trump enemies. We put this up before tonight, it has a new relevance. But over the 14 months they've opened all these cases, the green stamps show DOJ cases that already fell apart some others remain open as lawmakers are subpoenaed and harassed, journalists and government vets awaiting trial. So let me be clear about what this news means. It's a sign of a legally sick DOJ that so many of these faltering and failed cases were ever opened at all. But it's also a sign of a reasonably healthy court system in America right now that we know the facts and the evidence, basically kneecap these plots to Trump's great frustration. And he's now mulling ousting the other top law enforcement official, FBI Director Cash Patel. Supposed to be on a 10 year term, but Trump apparently doesn't care about that rule as well as other officials. So why would you make the these big changes when you also are trying to prosecute a war which we recorded tonight has its own set of emergencies and problems and you have the economy to deal with and you have the midterms now barreling towards you. It would seem that Trump actually knows his administration is faltering and therefore he wants to do what he used to do on the Apprentice as acting, basically. But what people do all the time in different organizations, which is if things aren't working, you try to change personnel. But just think about this tonight, that would mean that Trump apparently doesn't know or doesn't care that many of these results these Failures, which he says himself are failures. I just showed you the articles reporting on them being failures. They stem from Trump's policy plans, not just the people he hired to carry them out. Washington monitoring any wider purge. And there were signs Bondi was on the rocks, including, as we reported on the beat, that she had been publicly sidelined by her own deputy after the ongoing Epstein files debacle and on the rollout after her failures. They basically said, all right, she's still technically Attorney General, but Todd Blanche was already kind of the acting Attorney General for Epstein. It was him you saw at the lectern. It was him signing the letter to Congress about the files. And if you remember the debates about redactions and all that, he was already running point on that. So we also have some fresh details on how this went down. Trump used the ride with Bondi to the Supreme Court Wednesday for another case that faces long odds or, experts say a likely loss to tell her, look, I think it's time. An associate apparently leaking that to the Journal as she fought for a few more months to stay in the administration. Trump refused. And that adds context to the firing announcement he posted online, where he said she would be taking a private sector job. He didn't specify which one, but in his world, it just meant she ain't staying in his administration. Now Bondi joins a long list of Trump loyalists who have shattered their credibility, their professionalism and their relationships for him only to be publicly fired as soon as things weren't working out, even if the things that weren't working out was them faithfully trying to carry out his plans and policies, some of which are illegal and can't be carried out again because we still have rule of law. Her acting replacement is another Trump aide who seems to think that somehow he'll avoid the fate of the person he's replacing. Bondi, and so many other people who have been dragged and discarded by Trump. Not to make light of this, but it's kind of close to the Mafia movie pattern where something bad happens to this gangster and another gangster steps up to say, I want that job. And you're thinking, did you see what just happened? You want that guy's job. But that's Washington. That's power politics. The deputy I mentioned there is named Todd Blanche. He is now the first acting attorney general ever who previously served as a president's personal lawyer. Those are two opposite positions. It's a conflict that has long been considered disqualifying. But as of tonight, not on not a Trump's DOJ and Whether he will take over permanently, we don't know yet. He is atop the list to be appointed AG according to Politico. There's talk of some other individuals, but he would be the leader. He's obviously already on the job, and that is under the rules. The deputy does become acting AG if something happens to the ag. He recently went to the partisan CPAC conference and has been using Fox News to try to burnish his MAGA credentials. Now, for those who pay attention closely, we know that Trump has a vice president who called him, quote, America's Hitler. So you can overcome things if you are willing to do whatever Trump demands now. And you don't have any iota of pride or consistency about what you said you believed in your whole life. That's not really an exaggeration. That's just my introduction to remind you that for those following Blanche was a registered New York Democrat before for only reasons he knows. When Trump was a defendant in New York, he left his firm when moved to Florida and went all in for then defendant Trump. In that case, the president reportedly probably obviously frustrated that the case is against Tish and Schiff and Brennan and Comey. Not really going anywhere. Are you the guy that's gonna be able to get that done? I appreciate the frustration because we do have to make sure that what happened for four years never happens again. And we don't talk about investigations. But I can tell you that the Department of Justice is working hard. Okay, he is a shrewd enough lawyer that he didn't actually commit to carrying out a legal selective prosecution. But he did a different spin. He talked about what happened for four years as if that's the bad thing. But that's not the problem right now. The problem is the last 14 months, the failed cases losing at the Supreme Court, the tariffs, the immigration, the revenge cases that have embarrassed the doj, sullied its reputation, but also disappointed his boss, who he thinks is his boss still the president of the United States. It ain't about the last four years. It's about these 14 months. And I have special guests Emily Bazelon and Gene Robinson on this joining us. Emily, your thoughts?
- [26:17]
Emily Bazelon
My thoughts are that Pam Bondi is unlucky to be in this situation in which she's getting run out of town. You wonder if this was what she thought she signed up for. And you're right that there's a trail of people who were loyal to Trump and get discarded and they kind of keep coming, right? Because there's a lot of power to be had in being the attorney general. But Bondi is being just sort of yanked off the stage in a way that there's no real grace in her exit. And, you know, one wonders if she has any regrets, Jim.
- [26:56]
Gene Robinson
Yes, well, Pam Bodney really did try hard, didn't she? I mean, she. Look, the attorney general runs up against an inevitable obstacle, which is the law, right. And the law, especially in the form of federal judges, who are going to follow the law. And so if you try to do all these things that are unprecedented and against the law, you're not going to succeed. So to kind of make up for that, I can't help but think of her appearances before Congress, congressional committees, where she was so combative and insulting in a way that obviously was for an audience of one. She was trying to show Donald Trump that she was more maga than thou, more Trumpy than thou, that she was really his warrior at the Justice Department. But then she'd go back to the office, and once again, there's the law. There are grand juries who won't indict on spurious charges. There are judges who will throw out cases that are without foundation. And Todd Blanche is going to run into the same thing.
- [28:10]
Ari Melber
Yeah. And I wonder what we could learn, Emily, over time. The DOJ must have a difference between ideology and law. And within the law, the given ideology of an administration is fine. Jeff Sessions was extremely conservative on many issues, including immigration, but he acted within the law, and he recused himself on the Russia and Mueller case issues because of the law. I mean, that's what he did. So some people might say they don't like him because of his ideology, but he has every right to have his ideology, as does the president. And he operated within the law. You go from Sessions, right? Then you end up down with Barr, who got out before January 6th because he saw that writing on the wall. Now you get to Bondi, and we just. I just went through it all, but it was another dissent, according to legal experts. And you have Blanche as a front runner, who is literally the personal partisan enforcer of the president. He makes no pretense to the law, Emily.
- [29:10]
Emily Bazelon
Right. So with both Sessions and Barr, they hit a limit, right? They hit a limit where they said, my professional duties, my ethics are not going to allow to do what the president wants. And they exited for those reasons. Bondi didn't have a limit. Trump decided that in the way that Jean was just talking about, that she was not doing what he wanted. Right. He didn't fire her because he has doubts about this weaponized version of criminal prosecution. He fired her because she didn't succeed at doing that. I suppose that she also had a bunch of errors with the Epstein files that he could blame her for separately. Right. Those were kind of own goals on her part. You're right that Blanche has stepped in and played a lot of defense on that. And so, you know, from Trump's point of view, he could expect perhaps just a better handling of the Epstein files from Todd Blanch, and maybe that's enough. But, you know, mostly it just seems like he wants to change the subject right now. And firing people is one way to do that.
- [30:14]
Ari Melber
Yeah, I mean, but what does it change the subject, too? I mean, there's been all these jokes about, oh, you want to go from Iran to Epstein, or maybe you want to go from Epstein to Iran. And it reminds you these are big real world problems as well as obviously relatedly political problems. Gene, I want to show you Blanche at a partisan conference, cpac, which that alone would have been a scandal in a different era. And I know we say that a lot, but I don't think we should just give up on all standards, because the doj under any party, should not be a political operation, not in fact or in presentation. And yet here he was. Take a look. I represented President Trump in the Manhattan DA case and in Jack Smith's prosecutions. Why is there objection to sending ICE officers to polling places? Illegals can't vote. We see our most activist judges that we lose to every single day. There's a lot of ways that we can work within that to get some of our cases where we want them to be. Eugene?
- [31:17]
Gene Robinson
Well, again, that's what I frankly expect to hear from Todd Blanche. And it would be a total scandal at any other time in American history. But it is. It's Friday, right? It's just Friday right now. That's the state to which we have devolved. I keep thinking about Trump's mentor, Roy Cohn, who apparently once, don't tell me what the law is, tell me who the judge is. The problem here is that it basically doesn't matter who the judge is if you try to go, if you try to push too far, I mean, with one perhaps, exception, Aileen Cannon. That's the one time when Trump was really able to pick the judge and get results. But federal judges are pretty serious about their job, and it doesn't matter if they were appointed by Barack Obama or Donald Trump so
- [32:21]
Ari Melber
far.
- [32:21]
Gene Robinson
I mean, we'll see what Todd Blanche does, but I see that as hot Air again for the audience of one. And I'm sure Donald Trump likes it, but I don't think he'll like everything that happens from now on.
- [32:35]
Ari Melber
And finally, Gene, with just about a minute here, widening out to the second term, this is a lot of mess. Then you have the midterms and then he's really formally lame duck. And if it were held today, there's a lot of view that they could lose the House. What does this tell us about the sort of the demise before our eyes of Trump's second term?
- [32:58]
Gene Robinson
Yeah, well, at the moment, again, things can change at the moment. It's kind of falling apart. I mean, there's no momentum there. There's no progress there. He's bogged down in a war and nobody is forgetting about the Epstein files. And the economy is not great and getting worse because of the war. I mean, these are all headaches and this is all the sort of details and nuts and bolts and heavy reading of government that Donald Trump, frankly, just seems totally bored by. And so I don't, I don't know what the last two and a half years of this administration are going to be like. I don't know what he's going to do with his time except sort of rage against the dying of the light.
- [33:55]
Ari Melber
Yeah, rage. And look for unilateral places which we've seen. I mean, the war is unilateral. We can criticize it, but there's no physical method to stop the war right now. And then the question is, is that any good for this country? That's one of the things Americans are considering. Gene, I want to thank you especially for the big picture. Emily, stay with me. I have Bondi legal question for you when we're back.
- [34:17]
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- [34:47]
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- [34:57]
Ari Melber
Every small d Democratic muscle that we have is flexing.
- [35:01]
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- [35:22]
Ari Melber
We're back with Emily Bazelon looking at the the substantive import of AG Bondi losing so many cases, losing her way on the Epstein files, losing her job. And I want to know, from your view, the legal system has been tested and we've discussed that in many ways over the last 14 months. How important is this for all the prosecutors below her that she was pushing and asking to break laws, some of whom were disqualified? How important is this for what we call the larger bar, the lawyers in the country? Admittedly something that legal folks might think about more than everybody else. But I wonder if it failing feels very different than the hopelessness of, oh, I guess they get away with everything.
- [36:06]
Emily Bazelon
Yeah, I think that's true. I've been texting with people, you know, former Justice Department lawyers. People are still there. And, you know, I think there's this feeling of, well, it's a relief that someone who was just bulldozing through the independence norms and standards and rules for the department is no longer here, but also a sense of foreboding about what's going to come come next. Right. Because this is personal for Trump. He got tired of Pam Bondi, but it's not about a change in direction. And I think people who initially.
- [36:40]
Ari Melber
No, but let me, I'll let you finish. But it's not a change in direction, but they hit a brick wall. I mean, he pushed and put cases she, she didn't want to bring, and she said, fine, fine. He's tweeting some, you know, the DM tweet controversy for those who remember. And they kept going. And it's this brick wall. And so now Blanche, yes, he might have the same orders, but I don't know if he's going to hit his head as hard against the brick wall and particularly US Attorneys below going, so, so my unreasonable boss might be gone soon.
- [37:11]
Emily Bazelon
Right. But then you think about the fact that the office of the deputy attorney general that Todd Blanche has been running has been at the middle of some of the most serious weaponization efforts and, you know, the sort of flood of challenges to immigration detention that is hitting U.S. attorneys offices across the country. He hasn done anything to stop that. So, yes, I mean, you're right about the rule of law holding. And it's possible that Blanche will not pursue some of the prosecutions that, you know, we've been talking a lot about month to month. But I just don't think that Blanche represents like some big change and recognition from the Trump administration that this kind of weaponization was wrong. So from that sense, I guess it's like a limited relief that I'm hearing from DOJ lawyers.
- [38:00]
Ari Melber
Interesting. And again, relying on your sources as well, because there's more than one way to look at the same picture here. We wanted to think about it with you. Emily Bazelon, thanks for being here.
- [38:11]
Emily Bazelon
Thanks for having me.
- [38:12]
Ari Melber
Appreciate it. I want to give everyone an update when we come back on how this war spending plan in the Pentagon breaks Trump's America first vows, Turning to a broken vow by Donald Trump that is reverberating around the world and really hurting him with his MAGA base. One concept to keep in mind is if you go all the way back to The World War II era, United States and other countries talk about the spending on military versus the home front, the guns versus butter, you can think of butter as what we do for our own citizens here at home or and conservatives speak America first. And Donald Trump is not putting America first. Here's how one outlet put Trump's all guns, no butter budget proposal. According to Axios, this is right after Trump said the war will make it harder for the government to even help families with childcare.
- [39:11]
Ambassador Ross
The United States can't take care of daycare. We're fighting wars. We can't take care of daycare. It's not possible for us to take care of daycare. Medicaid, Medicare, all these individual things, spending
- [39:25]
Ari Melber
on Americans, on Americans children or long term support for the elderly to have healthcare after they retire. I mean, these are core things that involve putting America first. And Donald Trump says he was not going to do that anymore. He ran on it, but he's not doing it. The priority is the military, not childcare. As the Times summarizes it, the proposal here tonight, which is news, would actually increase defense spending by 40% to a record breaking guns not butter. Wartime $1.5 trillion with a T. And then there would be cuts across domestic agencies. America's Second Eliminating key federal health, housing and education programs. America's Second Some of those are key to supporting minority groups in the poor. Senate Democrats say it's bleak and unacceptable and they'll fight it. We've all heard the phrase that a budget tells you your priorities, whether that's your personal budget or for how you live your life or your family budget, what you spend on right, your kids, a vacation or making sure everybody's healthy or in this case, our American budget. That doesn't put America first. Donald Trump's failure. Secretary of State Rubio is criticizing Iran's government for spending too much on the military and not enough on the Iranian people. Imagine an Iran that instead of spending their wealth, billions of dollars supporting terrorists or weapons, had spent that money helping
- [40:48]
Ambassador Ross
the people of Iran.
- [40:49]
Ari Melber
You'd have a much different. Imagine that a country with leaders who spend on their own citizens, especially if they promise to do so. Well, you can take Rubio's words back to the administration he serves. We're going to finish a break, but when we come back, I promise you we are going to back up and take a wider view with this brand new photos of the Earth we share. Stay tuned. Something positive. We have the start of the translunar injection burn that will send the crew around the moon.
- [41:27]
Emily Bazelon
The first humans to do so in over 50 years.
- [41:29]
Ari Melber
Integrity, good. Engine, good. Control, We show the same. Feels great up here. That's what it looks like the moment Artemis 2 was leaving Earth's orbit and the people working towards its final push to the moon. We have these live pictures broadcast as well from NASA inside the Orion capsule. We can tell you Artemis is over 100,000 miles away from Earth. These are the kind of numbers that barely make sense to us because our minds can only make so much sense of this vast, vast universe that we occupy. It's traveling at 3,400 miles an hour.
- [42:13]
General McCaffrey
We just wanted to communicate to everyone
- [42:16]
Ari Melber
around the planet who's worked to make Artemis possible that we firmly felt the power of your perseverance.
- [42:23]
Gene Robinson
During every second of that burn.
- [42:26]
Ari Melber
Humanity has once again shown what we are capable of. And it's your hopes for the future that carry us now on this journey around the moon. It is certainly true. This is something that only humanity can do. No other animals on this planet have come up with the technology to float into space to leave our Earth. There have been problems on this adventure. Artemis had some with the toilet. The crew reported a blinking fault light and then even joked about the issue.
- [42:54]
General McCaffrey
I heard that there was a little bit of an issue with the toilet. Which one of you was the plumber?
- [43:04]
Ari Melber
I'll take that one. I'm the space plumber. I'm proud to call myself the Space Plumber. I like to say that it is probably the most important piece of equipment on board. So we were all breathing a sigh
- [43:15]
Emily Bazelon
of relief when it turned out to be just fine.
- [43:19]
Ari Melber
We can safely leave our Earth. But we still need some kind of bathroom. There is video of the liftoff here. Artemis is set to reach the moon on Monday, which it will orbit. They'll lose communication with NASA for roughly 45 minutes because they will orbit Pink Floyd, alert the dark side of the moon. Then we are bracing for the splashdown on Earth next Friday. And they've already sent back this picture of our Earth. This is by Mission Commander Reid Weissman. They are up there looking down at us. He described it as spectacular. Take it in for yourself. And remember, we are all together on one big planet. We'll be right back. It's been quite a week. We appreciate you spending with us. If you want to keep up with what else we're doing, we have the Beat podcast, which is regularly our audio of the program, but also our podcast extras. With people like Melissa Murray, who was in this week, Andrew Weissman, Maya Wyla. You can just go on your phone to wherever you get your podcasts. Type in Ari Melber or the Beat. Subscribe and you'll get them all, including our new podcast extras and it shows support for the show if you do. I wish you a great weekend. Keep it locked.
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Ari Melber
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