← The Beat with Ari Melber
The Beat with Ari Melber
Turmoil Engulfs Trump DOJ
00:40:52
MS NOW's Ari Melber reports on tough news for the Trump DOJ as a top Jeffrey Epstein employee testifies. Renowned civil rights attorney Nancy Erika Smith and veteran journalist Tara Palmeri join.
Loading summary
Transcript93 lines
- [00:00]
Ari Melber
Still waiting in line. Again,
- [00:05]
Devlin Barrett
that's time you will never get back.
- [00:07]
Ari Melber
Save time and money with stamps.com over 4 million businesses have skipped the line
- [00:11]
Devlin Barrett
with stamps.com join them to save up
- [00:13]
Ari Melber
to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com
- [00:26]
Michael Steele
and use code podcast for a free
- [00:28]
Ari Melber
welcome gift to taxes and fees apply.
- [00:30]
Ad Voice 1
When I need to impress someone with a gift, I go straight to 1-800-FLOWERS. There's a reason they've spent 50 years as the floral authority. Every stem is hand selected by a vetted florist. And with same day delivery nationwide, 100% satisfaction guaranteed. That's why millions go to 1-800-flowers to celebrate life's most important moments. Order now for up to 40% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Act now and save up to 40% at 1-800-flowers.com sxm. That's 1-800-flowers. Com sxm.
- [01:01]
Ari Melber
Welcome to the beat. I'm Ari Melbourne. We're following what is tough news for the Trump doj as a top Jeffrey Epstein employee is testifying. We're also tracking another primary Election Day, South Carolina, Nevada, North Dakota and Maine all seeing voters turn out. Democrat Graham Platner is facing voters as he brings a new spirit and also his share of controversies to the Democrats national midterm message. We will turn to our live reporters for a look at and what's happening on the ground and the latest in turnout, which should have some interesting clues that will be later this hour on another primary Election Day. Right now, though, our top story is the Epstein scandal roaring back on Capitol Hill, the very outcome President Trump has tried and failed to prevent. Congress drawing new testimony from a key witness, Epstein's assistant of 18 years. Lawmakers now following leads that the Trump DOJ and its predecessors apparently abandoned or worse, that Trump officials recently hid. So it's vital to recall how we got here, even if Donald Trump wishes. This was not the top story tonight. First, last year, then Attorney General Bondi claimed in writing that there was actually no evidence for any other investigations against third parties who had not already been charged in this Epstein probe. And remember, she also said there should be no further disclosure of any Epstein files. That was her memo. That was the Trump Bondi plan to bury and hide the Epstein files. It failed, as you know. Indeed, it was the Epstein files, which later exposed how FBI investigators previously tracked several Suspected co conspirators revealed in this long secret document that actually only came out when we started getting the Epstein files. We reported on it that night and in other reports, and I'll get into that. But what you're looking at is important because this was the then secret DOJ effort to diagram Epstein's then uncharged inner circle. And if you notice the lower left where we've added a square, this is government evidence, but we've added that square for your understanding of what's important today. That diagram includes today's witness, Leslie Groff. Now, we've reported on the timeline, the denials, the secrecy, the leaks, until these later files showed those abandoned leads. This was our case timeline. You remember how it all came back to life. And Groff matters more perhaps than some of Epstein's lawyers and accountants. You see the suspect list that was released there on the right? That's the one I'm talking about. She had the widest visibility on his plans and communications with all kinds of people, including some of the people you see on your screen, who've only gotten in trouble or faced any kind of accountability since these files came out. The ones that I just reminded you Bondi tried to hide and said in writing shouldn't be released. So before I tell you what she said today, and it's stuff that Donald Trump wishes wasn't in the news, remember that she was on the emails and in the arranged meetings for the powerful, for the staff to the whim. I need to go back a little bit. We're going back. Well, I want to slow down and tell you guys this. She was at the center, she was on site. So she was an eyewitness. You can see how many times she's in the files and an email witness because she was on so many emails, her name appears more than anyone else. And she kept working for Epstein through his 2019 arrest, arranging the meetings with so many figures. So that's why it matters that now, after all these years, she showed up. You can see today, this is what happened today, showed up to testify to Congress and in a time of great skepticism about our government. And it took people and pressure to get here, but under public pressure. I want you to understand that the Democrats on the committee who've pushed hard for this and 26 Republicans came around perhaps under pressure, but still came around to demanding this on a bipartisan basis. I'm not telling you we're all good and everything works. We're far from that. But I am telling you that people who said two years ago. Well, how would you make the Congress do anything? And how could you get the Republicans on board? It would make Trump look bad. Well, here we are today. A bipartisan effort to get her and these other witnesses to speak to Congress, which again, is supposed to represent you in the pursuit of the truth. So Grof's lawyer now says she was disgusted by Epstein conduct. She testified today that he was a monster, a master manipulator and a deceiver, separating his legitimate life from a secret life as an abuser. She recounts that she first took the job for about $50,000 a year and that she tackled everything from scheduling to mundane tasks. She describes having to ensure today that he had his reading glasses at every single table at his home so he never had to look for it. She told the committee that sometimes very late in the day, she'd have to source a dozen chocolate croissants made in New York to be delivered to palm beach by 9 the next morning. Amid those kind of details, she also asserts that she learned Epstein was actually a kind of a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde character. So her version of events, now that you see how central she was, and I've reminded you how Trump and Bondi fought for this ever to come out, her version of events is still that Epstein somehow hid his entire enterprise from her, even as she carried out this daily schedule and met his demands. Before I go more deeply into what she says, which is a kind of a defense of what she knew at the time, I want to give you a testimonial fact check. I'm reporting on her testimony. That's what she says. Before we go any further, I want you to know what other survivors say they disagree with her account that she couldn't see any of this. They've previously stated that this key witness, Grof, arranged appointments with one victim when she was a minor and that it was, quote, pretty obvious Leslie knew what was going on. An account given to the FBI in 2021, Groff told the FBI that she viewed booking Epstein's massages as a kind of standard appointment. But now that the public can see all the Epstein files, which again, we never had before and which the FBI did have, the claim that these were just typical massages makes basically no sense. For example, this witness was arranging payments that were much, much higher than the most expensive massage services available. And this is what investigators do. You don't always have all the evidence to show, oh, someone admitted a crime. But here was an arrangement for a thousand dollar payment in 2017, which is about $1,300 today, just accounting for inflation. Even top five star spas don't charge $1,300 for the best sort of most celebrated masseuse they have in the most expensive resorts. She also cited payments to a girl for time spent on the island. Her other past emails, which we only got, of course, recently, show her awareness that one girl could not come because she was at School till 10pm Others show a type of paid activity that goes beyond say, an hour massage she arranged at Epstein's request for a paid visit at the house that would start around 3, but staying into the evening. So that's just some of what we know today. Speaking to the committee, she played down knowing that kind of thing. Lawmakers say that she was just distancing herself from what Epstein did. She saw no misconduct, she claims one Democrat saying they want to get Grof on the record so that when we find out later she was lying, quote, we can arrest her. Lawmakers expressing their doubts about her claimed sort of naivete. It is highly inconsistent.
- [08:55]
Devlin Barrett
What she's maintaining that she really didn't,
- [08:57]
Ari Melber
really didn't know Jeffrey Epstein. She arranged young women for massages with a registered sex offender.
- [09:08]
Devlin Barrett
And I just question whether, whether she can rightfully and truthfully maintain that she saw nothing improper.
- [09:19]
Ari Melber
That's one lawmaker's informed skepticism. Grof's claims of ignorance, what, by the way, under law can sometimes be deemed willful blindness, are also under pressure from the public accounts of Epstein's earlier misconduct and his famed Florida conviction. Now, I want you to know, like I said, we're going to tell you what happened today. This is new. This is brand new. As of today, we didn't know this. A few hours ago, Groff did try to address the Epstein history. She told lawmakers that after his arrest in 08, Epstein lied to me and insisted he'd been blackmailed. He angrily said the allegations against him were false, that he had no idea that the woman he had contact with was a minor. In my mind, that was the reason he was treated so leniently by law enforcement for such a serious crime. Now, from the FBI to Congress, informed investigators have to weigh that kind of denial with how much else Groff would be in a position to witness or see and how much she helped arrange, as documented in the emails and Epstein files, which under no other criminal case that we've covered in history, would you get all the emails. So the old defense looks a little different when the public now has access to the things that the FBI and DOJ had for years and sometimes did very little with lawmakers also asking today if she arranged any contact between Epstein and Trump.
- [10:44]
Tara Palmieri
Did she talk about scheduling meetings between Mr. Epson and President Trump?
- [10:48]
Ari Melber
Basically arranging phone calls, I believe was the most of it that just contact
- [10:54]
Devlin Barrett
between, you know, just arranging phone calls
- [10:57]
Ari Melber
between President Trump and Mr. Epstein? Yes.
- [11:00]
Tara Palmieri
She get the timeline on when they were talking?
- [11:03]
Ari Melber
I believe she referred to a time before the before Mr. Trump was president. So that's going back to a period where we know they were having contact and sometimes socializing. Now, she maintains she had no knowledge of any criminal activity and she has never been charged. Survivors though, and some legal experts say that may be the problem. They question how the FBI identified and mapped these suspected co conspirators. Some of them as you see redacted and yet did not apparently legally pursue any except Maxwell, who's now getting those unusually favorable requests met as she gets special treatment from the Trump doj. We are here learning new things. And as some lawmakers said, if the denials do not hold up over time under the weight of evidence and investigation, getting them before Congress, it's a crime. To lie to Congress is itself useful. There are many different elements to the long running Epstein scandal. And while some people rush to say, well, this means they can assume the worst about anyone they don't like for political or other reasons and that has certainly contributed to some of the heat, that's not actually what matters. What does matter and what Donald Trump's DOJ is a part of is how long the government has hid and misled about the very facts we now have continuing to come out. And perhaps it's a political irony for Donald Trump that by fighting this so hard, he has dragged dependency of this discussion and news cycle closer and closer to the next election in the midterms, just as he dragged one of the Epstein rebels, Tom Massey, through the most expensive primary in American history just to try to get rid of him. Which raises the question, why are you so committed to fighting every lawmaker and every survivor and every witness who has something to say about this sordid history? It's a story that's not going away. And we have special informed guests on this. When I'm back with you in 90 seconds. We're back with civil rights attorney Nancy Erica Smith and Tara Palmieri, a veteran journalist who writes the Red Letter on Substack and has covered this story extensively. Nancy, I walked through how we got here because it matters so much to understand both the secrecy and this witness your view of what we learned today.
- [13:40]
Nancy Erica Smith
Well, my view is it took a lot of enablers to allow Jeffrey Epstein to conduct a child sexual abuse ring for decades. And many of those enablers probably have in their mind that Donald Trump gives out pardons to people who may need them or who will protect him or who will pay him, of course, but who will protect him? She had a non prosecution agreement in 2008. To say that she didn't know any anything all this time after he was convicted is just not believable. Setting up massages three times a day, knowing that there's a cleaner, a janitor, who testified that they sanitize the massage rooms three times a day. I mean, even Howard Lutnick says that the townhouse was creepy and he didn't want to go back because of the massage rooms.
- [14:35]
Ari Melber
And if she may have known and the FBI was concerned that she and others crossed over into criminal conduct.
- [14:40]
Nancy Erica Smith
Yep.
- [14:40]
Ari Melber
Why were none of them held accountable? How do you view sort of her history there?
- [14:44]
Nancy Erica Smith
Well, women don't matter and children don't matter when you're comparing them to powerful rich men. It's just this history of the whole world that we don't matter the way powerful connected rich men matter. So he got a pass from the star. Alex Acosta got to be Trump's first Labor Secretary by giving Epstein, who everybody has to admit was a close friend of Trump for quite a few years. So Alex, everybody got rewarded. And now Todd Blanche, who defended Trump in the E. Jean Carroll case, is nominated to be the Attorney General after giving a sweetheart deal to a convicted child sexual predator. She's in Club Fed like prison with a dog, apparently. I mean, you know, so if I wanted a pardon, if I participated, if I enabled this kind of child sexual abuse ring, I would say I didn't know anything. I would lie. Because if you get indicted, you are hoping that by covering up for Trump and his friends and the other powerful people that you're going to get a pardon.
- [16:00]
Ari Melber
And then briefly, because I want to bring in Tara. Is your view that the FBI or any solid investigator should have known better but had other reasons not to.
- [16:07]
Nancy Erica Smith
Yes, definitely.
- [16:09]
Ari Melber
Tara, your view on all this?
- [16:11]
Tara Palmieri
You know, it's interesting that Leslie was called this week because there is a prosecution memo that U.S. attorney Jeff Berman put together in 2019, shortly after he arrested Jeffrey Epstein. And it was about potential co conspirators. And again, Leslie Groff is named as one. And it shows that the FBI actually interviewed her lawyer. So again, she knew that she was target in this case. She was Unwilling to give any information. And you know, I look through some of the files that Jane does filed, and one of them, Jane Doe 45, said that she booked their travel, she handled visas, accommodation, and quote, rules of behavior. I mean, how could a woman who worked for him from 2001 to 2019, who was in her 30s and 40s, not knowing what was going on? Jennifer Rose, another victim of Jeffrey Epstein, also remembered Grof said she was critical in facilitating Epstein's abuse. Not to mention the fact that when the FBI, I'm sorry, the local Palm beach police, when they raided his home in 2006, there were so many pictures of underage girls on the walls and everywhere else, and there's so many witness accounts of young girls walking around naked from people who worked there that it's undeniable what was going on. I'm just angry that she is another person who is a potential co conspirator who is able to speak to Congress, not under oath in this interview setting. I mean, these people need to be held to account. The other thing I want to mention too is that when I looked at this, this memo, this 86 page memo that Jeff Berman put together, the names of powerful men are mentioned that girls accused of sexual abuse, including Leon Black, Jess Staley, Prince Andrew and Harvey Weinstein, they are named as sexual abusers in this, in this memo. But instead the prosecutors are only focused on the women who facilitated the abuse. It's all about the women. And it shows you again what Nancy mentioned. This is not. They're not interested in pursuing these men. In fact, every time a woman brought up it under sworn, like undersworn testimony, what her experience was with this man, they named it matter of factly, but had no interest in following up.
- [18:35]
Ari Melber
Yeah, you can interview them. Well, I have you because you've covered this a lot. What do you think of the point that perhaps only under pressure and being dragged there, but unlike other issues, there was at least finally this bipartisan push to take this step, long overdue. Do you see that as a difference from years ago on the Hill or what do you think's happening there?
- [18:57]
Tara Palmieri
I just think that interviewing Leslie Groff, you're not getting to the heart of the matter. You need to be interviewing the men. You need to get Leon Black up there, you need to get Jeff Staley up there. I mean, there. I know Bill Gates is coming this week. This is just. It just feels like it's a political show. And yes, Leslie knows some things, but you're never going to get anything out of her. Unless it's under oath. And even then it's, it's behind closed doors. Why, why can't we watch this? Why can't, why is this not being televised? This is the middle of our time.
- [19:28]
Ari Melber
Yeah. And to your point, they were rushing to get the Hillary Clinton video out, you know. Yeah. And again, as mentioned, you've been on this, Nancy, on the legal side. Again, I said I would quote her account. She says, After Mr. Epstein's conviction, I learned the government and his lawyers included me in the non prosecution agreement as a potential conspirator. She says today, quote, I am not a conspirator and I never would have agreed to this language. Their decision to label me as a potential conspirator remains my scarlet letter.
- [20:00]
Nancy Erica Smith
Oh, good. Then she should disavow the non prosecution agreement and put herself out there to testify under oath in public and be confronted, literally confronted with some of the evidence you've shown today. If she wants to disavow the non prosecution agreement and say, oh, I didn't know, I wouldn't have agreed not to be prosecuted, she literally says that. Good, let's, let's prosecute it.
- [20:26]
Ari Melber
Yeah. So you don't buy it?
- [20:27]
Nancy Erica Smith
I don't buy it one bit. And the reason we're here to answer your question earlier is because Trump and MAGA talked about a big Democratic pedophile ring and a lot of Republicans ate it up. And so they're stuck with it now that this is what they told people they were concerned about. Oh, my God. Sex abuse of children in a pizza place in Washington. They drummed this up and now they want to walk away. And people like Massie who believed it and cared about it are, are the victims.
- [20:58]
Ari Melber
Yeah. Both of you have been all over this and also passionate on it, which is why we thought of you. Tara and Nancy, thanks to both of you for joining me tonight.
- [21:05]
Tara Palmieri
Thank you.
- [21:06]
Ari Melber
Appreciate it. We have a lot going on. Michael Steele is here. There's panic over the midterms of the Republican Party and the DOJ meltdown over the losing conspiracy cases.
- [21:20]
Ad Voice 2
You ever wonder how far an EV can take you on one charge? Well, most people drive about 40 miles a day, which means you can do all daily stuff, no problem. Go to work, grab the kids at school, get the groceries and still have enough charge to visit your in laws in the next county. But they don't need to know that. And the best part, you won't have to buy gas at all. The way forward is electric. Explore EVs that fit your life at electricforall.org
- [21:50]
Ad Voice 1
the most memorable gifts aren't found, they're made. Zazzle is a custom marketplace where you pick any product, a mug, a card, a tote, a phone case and make it personal. A photo, a name, an inside joke, the kind of gift that actually fits the person. That's what 30 million customers have been coming back to Zazzle for over 20 years to find. Right now. Save 25% on your first order@zazzle.com that's zazzle.com make it zamazing. This is a Monday.com app. The same Monday.com helping people worldwide, getting work done faster and better. The same Monday.com designed for every team and every industry. The samemonday.com with built in AI scaling your work from day one. The samemonday.com that your team will actually love using the same Monday.com with an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free. Yes, the same Monday.com.
- [22:54]
Ari Melber
But Mr. President, you're one sided crooked network. So let's call it quits because I've had enough. Thank you darling. Have a good time.
- [23:00]
Nancy Erica Smith
Mr.
- [23:04]
Ari Melber
Holy.
- [23:06]
Devlin Barrett
Storming out because you didn't like the question.
- [23:08]
Ari Melber
Now you could view this as the hissy fit of an incredibly fragile man baby whose paper thin skin can't handle
- [23:17]
Devlin Barrett
venturing out of the sycophantic embrace of, of his tongue bathing acolytes or actually,
- [23:23]
Ari Melber
I don't know how else you're dealing with really is just that, the signs that Trump can't handle the truth. The Times also reporting he's previewing a midterm plan to attack a vote that apparently he's worried about losing. Questioning the results now in these California primaries. No evidence on that. And it follows a longer set of struggles at the doj. Which brings us to, to our acclaimed guest, Devlin Barrett, the New York Times reporter who's had multiple prize winning reports along with his colleagues. And he's the author of the book the Department of How Trump Took Control of American Justice. It's out today. We're glad you could join us today. Congrats on the book.
- [24:01]
Devlin Barrett
Thanks. Thanks for having me.
- [24:02]
Ari Melber
Yeah. People who've been reading, of course, the New York Times have seen some of that reporting, including this effort to revive what you liken to and your sources discussed is almost a Frankenstein legal project that largely seems doomed. Tell us about that.
- [24:16]
Devlin Barrett
So, right. So when you listen to people like Kash Patel talk about what he calls the deep state, all these accusations are sort of built around this notion that Government agencies conspired for years to block Donald Trump in various ways. The grand conspiracy case that Kash Patel initiated and has been pushing for the last year and year and change is. Is really the culmination of that argument, but it's built on a. An incred, incredibly flimsy evidentiary basis, a set of evidence that career prosecutors have looked at over and over again and said they can't see criminal cases to be built from them. But still, because the Trump administration has such a tight grip on the Justice Department, they keep pushing it forward, and they keep looking, searching for a prosecutor who will take it to the next step under law.
- [25:09]
Ari Melber
The FBI are federal police. The police do police work. They develop evidence and facts, and then prosecutors weigh the evidence. That second step is supposed to insulate us with some more independence, right? You report that for the first time that we know of since Nixon, the FBI director is calling individual prosecutors at DOJ who do not report to him and demanding they do things. How did you. Without revealing your sources, but how do you develop reporting on that? You're firm on that. That itself is by. In any other era, is a scand what's going on there.
- [25:44]
Devlin Barrett
So it's just not the way this is meant to work. And there are rules in place and there are systems in place to prevent this from happening for this very reason. Prosecutors prosecute, agents investigate. And just to pick one fairly recent example that everyone can remember, that caused a lot of controversy at the time. Remember, James Comey's handling of the Clinton email investigation was a, I would argue, a misuse of the. Of these roles to begin with. That didn't go well for him. This is not going well for them. And the broader context is in the administration's efforts to make the machinery of justice do this. They are, you know, wrecking some of these offices. They are forcing people out. They are, you know, careers, are retiring, are resigning because they simply cannot go along with some of the demands being made of them to pursue these types of cases.
- [26:38]
Ari Melber
Right? And you get the same version of the fight at sea. How long do you stay inside and protest, and when do you leave? Because to even be there is illicit. You get that version at DOJ itself and across other agencies. You write in the book that with Blanche Bondi Patel basically seizing the doj, the old principles of discretion are discarded. They operate under these rules of personal connections to power, politics, desire by the president for revenge. At what point, when you're writing this up, being as fair as you are as an objective New York Times reporter, Do you also figure out how to say, not for political or partisan reasons, but on the evidence, this is unlawful, this is under the way that our system is set up. This is wrong.
- [27:27]
Devlin Barrett
So already you're starting to see judges move toward that. You saw in the indictments of James Comey and Letitia James, a judge say the appointment that created, that essentially spawned those indictments was unlawful. The thing to keep in mind, and I think sometimes we forget about this and the politics of it, is that the Justice Department is not like the Department of Agriculture. It's not like the Department of Commerce. There has for a very long time been an understanding that the White House should not be directing with, based on political whim or political interest, criminal investigations and prosecutions. But you can see sometimes in real time, like for example, if the president just posted on social media what appears to be a private message, that in fact, that is what's happening sometimes.
- [28:11]
Ari Melber
But overall, people, hopefully you hope they'll read your book. But the bottom line is the revenge agenda is working or failing.
- [28:20]
Devlin Barrett
I think you could say right now it fails more often than it works. But there's one problem, it doesn't always fail, and two, you're destroying some of the credibility and effectiveness of a very important set of institutions in this country, which is how law enforcement agencies work.
- [28:38]
Ari Melber
The book is Department of How Trump Took Control of American Justice. You can Google that, Get it wherever books are sold. Whether you remember Devlin's name or not, he's in a lot of the articles that you see on the Times or on your phone and that we, of course, draw on in our coverage. We're indebted to you. Thank you. And we're gonna fit in a break. And then Michael Steele on the GOP midterm pan. President Trump is struggling on a lot of fronts, and it's coincided with a wider rejection of his second term and by extension, his Republican Party. You can see his approval absolutely crashing. If you don't think he's doing a good job, you are with a huge majority, which includes, as you can see, people who voted for Trump previously. Now, some mag allies say the party's not just on track to lose the House, but the Senate as well. While the Senate GOP leader says the map might put things up for grabs, but he's confident. You listen closely. It's apparently the map rather than the Trump GOP loss of support.
- [29:49]
Devlin Barrett
You're going to have a lot of these fights in different states, and clearly
- [29:53]
Ari Melber
the map in the Senate this time,
- [29:55]
Devlin Barrett
it puts the Senate up for grabs. If you will. But we feel confident we've got quality candidates in all the key states where we're going to have competitive races.
- [30:03]
Ad Voice 2
We're going to lose the Senate in the fall anyway.
- [30:07]
Ari Melber
No grassroots leader, none of the grassroots phalanx, the hoplites. Nobody's excited about going door to door and doing voter engagement.
- [30:17]
Devlin Barrett
I think our candidates can do well and we can preserve and protect our majority of the United States Senate.
- [30:23]
Ari Melber
Those are two conservative views for the state of play in D.C. and beyond. We bring in our colleague Michael Steele, of course, former chair of the rnc, and New York artist Marlon Craft. And I should tell you, this duo is back together. They've discussed politics and culture here before, back more in that Zoom era, Marlon in the hoodie. And we got into Kraft's powerful political statement in that music video, State of the Union, which confronted political division and America's white supremacy problem. Many beat viewers appreciated it. We're showing you a little bit on your screen here. That segment about it now has over two and a half million views on YouTube. Kraft has some new music that we're going to get to. But I'm going to start on the politics with Michael. Republicans debating whether they'll lose in November. Obviously, Trump has complicated their message. Michael, what's your view?
- [31:13]
Michael Steele
Well, the problem isn't the map. I mean, the map coming into this election said the Republicans would hold the Senate because the map was favorable to Republicans coming into this cycle after 2024. So it's the map. It is the president. And you're not going to have the majority leader say that, unfortunately. But the reality of it is Donald Trump is that big sucking engine that's taking all the air out of the sails of a lot of Republican candidates in what are now competitive races. I give you Texas. I give you North Carolina. I give you Ohio. Shall I go on? I mean, so it's not the math. The map changed, if you will, because the realities for a lot of these candidates did. Now, you can go back and check the tape. A year ago on my show, I said Republicans would likely lose the Senate this year. And the reason was because I know my peeps, I know how they are, and I know the fact that they are not going to give up on Trump. You're going to keep drinking that Kool Aid. You're going to drown in it, and the voters are going to drown you in it. And that's exactly what's happening when you look at the fact, Ari, coming into this year, into this primary season, Democrats have won every special election, except one. So when you're winning. I won 35 in the year that I was RNC chairman. In that special election cycle, between 09 and the 10 elections in the fall, Democrats have won over 37. So that tells you something as a precursor to where the voters are. And so it's not the map.
- [33:02]
Ari Melber
We all have heard the term bully pulpit. Teddy Roosevelt and other presidents who say, you know, the power comes in speaking to the country.
- [33:09]
Michael Steele
Yes.
- [33:10]
Ari Melber
When Donald Trump schedules a big interview and does it on TV and then can't finish it, what does that do to the midterm calculus? Do you think that looks strategic or weak or what?
- [33:21]
Michael Steele
Oh, there's no strategic there. There's nothing strategic about there. He got, he got. He got nailed by Kristen Welker. She asked him a direct question. He threw a bromide at her. She bounced it back on his head and repeated the question and wanted an answer. And then he got, as he always does, especially with women of color who are reporters, he gets nasty, he gets personal. And in this case, he had the opportunity to just storm off and then call her darling at the end. How misogynist can you be? Well, he's an 80 year old man, so. Who has a 50, 1950s mentality. Yeah, I can see him calling her darling. Right. He doesn't think anything, but he has no regard for her as a professional who's doing her job, who's asking him about the policies of his administration, the actions that he's taking, the decisions he's making. And he doesn't want to be held accountable for that because Donald Trump has not been held accountable for much in his life until he's gotten into public office. And that's where the problem comes in for him.
- [34:25]
Ari Melber
Yeah, Michael, stay with me. I'm gonna turn here to Marlon on set. As mentioned, was here for that politically charged song which I think spoke to so many of you because I heard from some Beat viewers about it. Your new album is the Internet Killed the Neighborhood. In the spirit of fallback, though, let's start with anything on your fallback list here. As a, as an artist and a
- [34:43]
Marlon Craft
creator, I think for me, I need AI with respect to the arts to fall back. Obviously, there's been a lot of conversation about AI just in general security and other things. But I think that we need to have meet the moment and have discipline when it comes to longevity versus efficiency in the arts. I think we run the risk of sort of nichefying humanity where if we're not careful and we don't protect Music and the arts as something that comes from human beings and the human experience and the human soul. In 20 years from now, we could be looking up and people could be being like, oh, I'm into human music. Although it's as if it's like a niche or vinyl or something like that.
- [35:23]
Ari Melber
Yeah. So tell everyone how old you are.
- [35:25]
Marlon Craft
I'm 33.
- [35:26]
Ari Melber
Right. So you're younger than some of the people we see sort of in politics. Definitely younger than the president. There's that song now. I'm trying to remember the loop. Yeah, yeah, you have the loop where you're in your songwriting. You're talking about that. What is that about to you, man?
- [35:39]
Marlon Craft
It's just like everything is so cyclical. The news cycle, the sort of cycles of capitalism, obviously, the pendulum swinging back and forth between left and right in our political system. And that song was just about, man, it feels like I'm living in the loop. I'm seeing the same things every day. The outraged, a lot of times feigned, a lot of times performative. But nothing really seems to change. And I don't say that from a position of being better than anybody. I think I feel stuck in that loop like everybody else, as an artist trying to combat. Even when we talk about AI or technology, these things are moving at a pace that it's impossible to keep up with, especially as inequality gaps are widening and it's harder to just be a working person and make a living. How can you keep up with how much morality, how much more morality it takes you every day to just be an ethical person, ethical consumer, business person in this world?
- [36:27]
Ari Melber
So, yeah, I think you're making sense. You know, I've listened to your music before. We've had you on before. But, you know, you're also talking about the generational thing, which is sometimes the older generation, we say, oh, well, you got to work hard and you go to school, and it's like, sure, but if we hand to younger people, if we hand off political trash world and information and media trash information system, that's what we're giving them. So they come up with that. So of course they're going to feel a little different than other eras. You know, some things have gotten better. Some things maybe not. Michael, in the spirit of fallback, what's on your list right now?
- [37:01]
Michael Steele
Well, first, let me say it's good to be back with Marlon. Good to see you, man. You know, I'm just causing. Causing a little bit of hell here and there, you know, just. That's all I can do.
- [37:11]
Marlon Craft
Yeah, they show that old video. I was like, damn, that was a lot of hair ago for me.
- [37:15]
Michael Steele
I know.
- [37:18]
Ari Melber
It's so true.
- [37:19]
Michael Steele
So true. So, Ari, my fallback is the Pentagon's ban on fat soldiers. Fat troops going to the UFC fight. Can we just fall back on this. This attack on our. On our uniformed military calling them fat and out of shape. I mean, look, I'm sorry. The president wants these felt, you know, Adonis looking, you know, soldiers sitting around him at a UFC fight. Look, first off, shouldn't even be on the White House lawn. That's a whole nother conversation. But then to put these requirements in, the soldiers have to pay their own way to go. And then. And then they have to be of a certain measurement between the head and the waist. I don't know. I don't know how you do that. What is that? I mean, who's going to measure them? I mean, it's just crazy. We find ourselves. And it really goes to Marlon's song about the loop, only this time the loop is encompassing a lot more crazy. And we're repeating it and recycling it over and over and over again in a lot of different forms. And this is a new form here. We're. Now we have this standard for our military in order to enjoy what is presumably a public event. But what do I know?
- [38:35]
Ari Melber
I'm glad you brought it up. We hadn't covered that this week. It's one of those headlines. You go, oh, yeah, is that real? And this obsessive, superficial casting when the military is a system that already has measures, they've met the requirements to do that work. Adding this reality TV show type fake casting is really something. So I appreciate bringing that up. Michael, as promised. Marlon. Hey, go ahead.
- [38:57]
Michael Steele
I was going to say real quick, the commander in chief of wouldn't be able to meet those metrics, so maybe he should to the fight
- [39:06]
Ari Melber
fair. The. The new album here. And you brought the vinyl is the Internet killed the neighborhood. Beautiful old school vinyl right here, sir. Double header question for you, of course. Tell us about the new project. And I think some of our viewers will be interested and even their kids might be interested in listening to you. While we're also going to show. While you talk. You got your Knicks gear on?
- [39:29]
Marlon Craft
Come on, man.
- [39:31]
Ari Melber
You have another music video. The Garden. This, like so many New Yorkers, has been something that I think is. Will show has been a part of your whole life, right? And some of your photos there that you've posted publicly in your family. And we're gonna mix that in with some of the other folks that have been at the Garden for real this week. So talk about the project and what this means to New York.
- [39:51]
Marlon Craft
Man, this is such a moment for me. And I'll kind of tie the project and the concept of neighborhood into the Knicks community. I and I've been a Knicks fan. My dad was around and a fan in 72, 73 when they came, the last time they won a title and I was six the last time we were in the Finals. My memory comes around in the Isaiah Thomas era, the early 2000s. Then it was the Mike D' Antoni era, the Mike Woodson era, the Derek Fisher and Jeff Horns. Like, so much pain, so much heartbreak. But I learned so much from being a New Yorker and being a Knicks fan about resiliency and about shared culture and space and about showing up year after year, even when it's gloomy and being optimist. I convinced Knicks fans will understand this, but I convinced myself Ron Baker could be an all defensive player. I thought Tony Douglas might make the leap to be Rajon Rondo if he got the starting spot. Like, I'm thinking of guys like Kylo Quinn while we're watching this run that we're watching right now, like guys that embodied that New York spirit but aren't here for the winning days. So it really is actually hard to undersell how much this means to me. And I think as we think about the Internet and we think about technology and where community has gone, how much New York is coming together in this time and the spirit of sharing physical spaces, even though there is being a lot of content creation done around it, I think it shows us how much we share, when we share spaces, we share culture together beyond just, you know, what's going on on social media.
- [41:13]
Ari Melber
I love how you tie that all together. Of course, you're a writer, so that makes sense. Another guest and thoughtful person on this show, Yuval Harari, said, you know, information is cheap, but the truth is expensive.
- [41:23]
Marlon Craft
That's a bar.
- [41:24]
Ari Melber
That's a bar, right? And some of what's going on in this virtual fake Internet, which you've also called the loop, it's cheap, right? But being together, which is happening in this city and what you've described, that has value and if anything, a higher value when we see so much of this other distraction. So on that theme, thank you, sir. Always good to see you again. The new album is the Internet Killed the Neighborhood Very apartment And you can Google, Marlin, Kraft or go to Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your music. Put Marlin Craft in there, check it out, share with your friends and family and do something. As we said outside. We'll be right back.
- [42:06]
Ad Voice 2
You ever wonder how far an EV can take you on one charge? Well, most people drive about 40 miles a day, which means you can do all daily stuff no problem. Go to work, grab the kids at school, get the groceries and still have enough charge to visit your in laws in the next county. But they don't need to know that. And the best part, you won't have to buy gas at all. The way forward is electric. Explore EVs that fit your life at electricforall.org
- [42:35]
Ad Voice 1
the most memorable gifts aren't found, they're made. Zazzle is a custom marketplace where you pick any product, a mug, a card, a tote, a phone case, and make it perfect personal a photo, a name, an inside joke, the kind of gift that actually fits the person. That's what 30 million customers have been coming back to Zazzle for over 20 years to find. Right now. Save 25% on your first order@zazzle.com that's zazzle.com make it zamazing Monday.com AI agents
- [43:07]
Ari Melber
took over my work and I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind. Now I stay in the loop only when it matters. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. Turning to breaking international news, the US has launched new airstrikes on Iran. This has taken place within the last hour. The US Central Command says the strikes are in response to the downing of a U.S. army Apache helicopter. The mission they stress is a, quote, proportional response to what they call unjustified Iranian aggression. The reference to proportionality speaks to both sides efforts to still hold a tenuous ceasefire. The service members in that US Chopper downing were later rescued. Iranian officials say the strikes hit military bases and we are all, of course, monitoring this volatile situation. That's one international update. I'm going to fit in a break, but when I come back, some news about Congressman Hakeem Jeffries and the beat. If Democrats win the House, they could elevate the current Democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries, to be the speaker of the House. And he joins me tomorrow in what we think is a newsworthy interview to talk about those midterms, politics, even his New York Knicks. So set your calendar, put it in your phone, get ready. Hakeem Jeffries on the beat tomorrow, 6pm Eastern.
- [44:38]
Ad Voice 1
Everyone's talking about protein lately, but how do you actually get enough of it? Muscle milk Muscle Milk has a great tasting new formula with no artificial sweeteners, flavors or added colors. It's high quality complete protein designed to support healthy muscles with fewer ingredients than the previous formula and 2642 grams of protein. For when you're stuck in meetings or need a post workout recovery. Available in chocolate, vanilla, cream, cookies and cream, and strawberries and cream. Try the new great tasting Muscle Milk today. Available in stores nationwide. Muscle Milk Protein for all.