B (2:13)

Right. The hat got you. I recall it did.

A (2:16)

So I had. I placed an order. I didn't see the hat in the cart, but I saw the advertisement on the website. Like, you get your free hat if you place an order. And so I wrote them. All I have to say is that hat better come in the mail because if it doesn't, I have qualms. With them. Anyway, I wrote them and I said, please make sure the hat is in the package. I actually have to ship it to my cousin in Germany because it's been in the beauty news. I know we're not in beauty news yet, but a lot of people are upset that they can't get their cosmetic products from Europe shipped to them because the postal carriers aren't shipping to the US Right now.

B (2:54)

Right. I did see in the news that countries around the world have all decided not to ship stuff to the US and that's because what, the tariffs and stuff?

A (3:02)

Well, the tariff situation changed. So basically you had a de minimis exemption before, where if the value was under $800, it could enter duty free. The US is saying, well, you actually have to pay some tariffs on that. That's ending. And so these other countries aren't protesting the fact that US Citizens have to pay tariffs on package receipts or people in the US Receiving packages, But it's more or less like the process is unclear because U.S. customs hasn't come out with how they're going to calculate duties, pretty much. So they just did. They just stopped a little bit for a little bit. It'll pick back up again. It has nothing to do with, you know, anything, because other countries pay tariffs all the time and importing fees. Like, if you ship to Canada, you have to pay some fees when you get your package. Well, I'm gonna get my Emmy Arpa skincare. We'll just have to figure out how. Even if I have to go to Germany to get it, which I will be going to Germany, but I might have to wait to get it.

B (4:04)

Yeah. When are you going to Germany?

A (4:06)

Well, I was planning to go before in cosmetics in Paris next year, but I have to go sooner to get my skincare.

B (4:13)

Oh, there you go. Well, you'll have to let us know how that goes. And I'll let you know, if there's anything you want me to pick up while I'm in France, you let me know.

A (4:22)

Ooh, great idea. Anything happen with you in the last week?

B (4:27)

I went golfing yesterday at, like, seven in the morning.

A (4:31)

Did you wear your sunscreen?

B (4:33)

You know I did not. Because I wore long sleeves and long pants. Because you know what? It's the end of August and it's cold. Like, how is it cold in the end of August in Chicago?

A (4:43)

This is Chicago. I'll trade you places. It is still so hot here in Texas.

B (4:47)

Oh, really?

A (4:48)

Oh, my gosh. But I have a question. Weren't you worried about exposing your neck and Face.

B (4:53)

I mean, I wear a hat also.

A (4:55)

And is it a wide brim hat or a baseball hat?

B (4:58)

It's a. It's a golf hat. It's a very stylish golf hat.

A (5:03)

What's a golf hat?

B (5:04)

It's like a old timer, but it's.

A (5:07)

Similar to a baseball hat. Oh, yes, yes, yes. No, it is not similar to a baseball hat. Oh, it's similar.

B (5:13)

It has like a rib.

A (5:14)

I don't know, it goes on your head. It's similar.

B (5:17)

It is very similar.

A (5:19)

Oh, goodness.

B (5:20)

Well, you know, that's such a frustrating sport, though, because, like, I play it all the time and I never get better. I never get worse, but I never get better. And it's like you spend all this time, you should get better at something. But I don't.

A (5:30)

That's usually how it goes. So it's. Oh, well, golf is difficult.

B (5:36)

It is. Well, yeah, for some people. For me, obviously, although I have high expectations.

A (5:41)

Well, it hasn't been a difficult week in beauty news. It actually was pretty light. So let's head over there.

B (5:51)

Valerie, my old brand was in the news. I saw this article about which. Which tickled me. It's like from glam. They said, we tried V5 shampoo and its plumping effect vastly outshines Pantene's viral comeback.

A (6:10)

Well, they're two completely different shampoos, so how could you even compare them?

B (6:15)

Well, I mean, they are all just about the claims, right? And so brands like Pantene, they say, have been like the go to and they get a lot of press on the Internet, I guess, because, you know, P and G is very good at, well, advertising.

A (6:33)

They spend a lot, especially their flagship.

B (6:36)

Shampoo for sure, which has been the number one shampoo in the United States since at least 2000. Well, I've seen this complaint about Pantene a lot. People say, oh, it leaves a residue on your hair. So some, you know, some people would wrongly say, oh, it's leaving plastic on your hair, but it does leave a film on your hair. And this person used it and she says for her curly hair and it wasn't quite right. But then she said VO5 caught my attention, thanks to the scents and the benefits of ranging from moisturizing to clarifying and revitalizing. Oh, my God. And she said, I tried it and it worked better for my hair than Pantene.

A (7:24)

I bet you. I mean, a VO5 works, but it's just different than Pantene. Right. So I just don't feel like you could even compare them. And I also wonder if VO5 caught their eye because, like, the early 90s are back in, and the early 2000s are back in. And so it's like, oh, let me just look at these, like, drugstore shampoos. Because that's where people get them, right?

B (7:49)

Well, I think the beauty of VO5, I mean, it's the cost, of course, but they do a good job with bright colors and lots of fragrance. And so if you like that kind of thing, that was very popular, like Bath and Body Works is very popular in malls and stuff.

A (8:07)

And that's what I'm saying. It's back in. It's just trending. In two years, people won't care about VO5 again.

B (8:16)

No, VO5 has been around since the 1950s. It's never going away. I mean, it's never gonna be fine with it.

A (8:24)

It's not gonna be in glam.com ever again. That's what I'm saying.

B (8:28)

Well, until the next zillennial or whatever the next generation is, they discover the old timer and like, hey, because I think, like, 99 cent shampoo. Well, I guess it's not 99 cents anymore. It's probably $1.59 or something. Cheap shampoos are never going to go away. There's always going to be the basic Bobs and the basic Betty's, as we call them in marketing research, who want these kinds of products.

A (8:53)

Well, I did recommend some inexpensive shampoos to the arborists that came to our home to take care of some of our mulberry trees.

B (9:01)

And for the trees.

A (9:03)

Well, for himself selling the treatment, he took his hat off. He took his hat off and said, can you recommend, like, what shampoo should I be buying? And I just said, honestly, the cheapest.

B (9:13)

All right, so get him. Get him VO5 or Suave.

A (9:17)

That's what I recommended.

B (9:18)

You know, when I was on VO5, there was Suave, and then there was another cheap shampoo called White Rain.

A (9:27)

The White Rain. What White Rain is gone. But they had this hairspray. It was in the green. White Rain was a white package for the most part. And it had, like, an accent color on it.

B (9:39)

Okay.

A (9:39)

And there was a White Rain hairspray that was. Had the green cap and, like, the green raindrop on it. Oh, the first napkin smelled so good that we would just. My friend had it and we would just spray it in her house as, like, air freshener because it smelled so good. I remember the scent, and sometimes I'm like, what happened to that? That's so funny. I Just thought about that the other day.

B (10:07)

It was owned by Gillette.

A (10:09)

Okay.

B (10:10)

And then Gillette got bought by, I think, P and G, right?

A (10:14)

No, did Gillette get bought by Comb or P and G?

B (10:18)

I thought it was P and G.

A (10:20)

Yeah, it's probably P and G. Yeah.

B (10:22)

Yeah. So. And then P and G doesn't want small brands like that or Procter and Gamble.

A (10:27)

Is P and G everybody. Industry vernacular.

B (10:30)

Oh, that's right. I think P and G is out in the. It's out in the public world.

A (10:36)

Png it might be, yeah.

B (10:38)

Yeah.

A (10:38)

Well, I saw something that I thought would really stick in your craw. Do collagen supplements really improve skin? It was an article in Cosmetics business and it's about this, I guess, peptide or collagen called Peptan. I felt like. Yeah, felt like a paid spot of sorts in this news website, we'll call it. But basically it's a collagen peptide that you consume and they have some benefits for skin and hair.

B (11:10)

What I saw here is that says they sort of hammer the science. Scientifically proven one or, you know, backed by science. And I don't know, I, I'm a collagen supplement skeptic because it's very difficult to prove that, oh, I've eaten this thing and it's had this effect on my skin, specifically because the way biology works is when you eat something, it goes into your stomach, it's broken down to these smaller peptides and then gets digested. So whether you're eating a collagen or you're eating fish or you're eating a hamburger, it all kind of gets turned into the kind of same stuff. Now, there are some who will say that, well, collagen gets turned into a peptide, that you don't find other types of food sources. And I mean, maybe that's true. Again, I'm. I find that a dubious claim that then it's going to go specifically to your skin and have effects. So, you know, I remain a collagen ingestion skeptic mostly because you make extraordinary claims like what you eat is going to impact your skin. That to me is an extraordinary claim, like in some specific way. And I don't see extraordinary evidence for this being true.

A (12:40)

They didn't go into the science behind the collagen peptide. Like how is it different than other collagen or other peptides? But they do claim it has high bioavailability, which means your body absorbs more of it than it ordinarily would, presumably due to the peptide sequence. Maybe. But again, they don't go into that. They just go into their two clinical trials that show it improves skin density, elasticity and hydration while also reducing wrinkle visibility. Again, really hard to do from the inside out. Then they did a study where peptan stimulated the number of active stem cells and hair follicles to slow their decline. They don't have any proof that it does anything for hair loss, but it suggests a pro promising approach to counteract age related hair loss. So it's just really suggestive in the language and I'm just not sure that it would do that.

B (13:35)

Again, they're implying these incredible claims, oh, here, eat this and your hair will fall out less slowly. Okay. I mean, that would be great if that were true. Let's prove it more than just like, oh, you know, we saw in a lab that, oh, this could happen.

A (13:54)

Like, come on, you know, I'm not against, like consuming collagen, like vital collagen or whatnot, because if, you know, you're still consuming something that's beneficial. And I actually don't have a high protein diet. I actually don't think most people eat enough protein. But, you know, if it doesn't hurt, it, you know, doesn't hurt. Yeah, but I just don't like the way vital collagens taste. You know, like people are putting it in their coffee and it's like, this stuff tastes awful. I wonder if this is better.

B (14:24)

Yeah, I just find that people are not skeptical enough of supplements in general, and this kind of thing just sort of boosts the supplement industry. I find the supplement industry a little bit unsavory, as it were, because pretty much it's unregulated here in the United States. And they can make all kinds of claims they want. And, you know, I know there's hugely popular podcasts that sell supplements. That's how they make a lot of money. And it's just people just don't need these things. If you're just eating a decent diet and you're taking care of yourself. I mean, you don't need to supplement with stuff like vitamins and ginkgo biloba and all this. It's all just kind of a waste of money in my mind. So maybe that bias is my view of the science behind eating collagen for your skin. I don't know.

A (15:21)

Yeah, it's. It's very interesting. I'm reading about the manufacturer of the peptide from this peptan manufacturer, and they have a porcine version, a bovine version, a fish version, a lot of collagen does come from fish, which can explain some of the taste. But usually collagen has to come from some kind of animal source.

B (15:42)

Right. It is surprising to me that people aren't worried about the animal derivation of collagen.

A (15:52)

I wonder if they think about it. I don't think people think like, well, where is this collagen coming from?

B (15:57)

Well, I mean, they think about their beauty products and like, oh, are there animal ingredients in it? And that is a big turn off. But I guess eating animals is different than using them for cosmetics.

A (16:10)

My mentor who passed away always lamented how he missed the days where he could use beef collagen in hair because he just said it. It made the hair feel really soft and hydrated.

B (16:21)

Well, and you know, the thing is that was not. Nobody went out and killed animals so they could put it in their cosmetics. That was just a byproduct of the meat industry.

A (16:31)

Yeah, very true. It's the original upcycling.

B (16:34)

That's right. It's upcycling.

A (16:36)

Well, what we're not upcycling is these questions. They're all brand new. Our first question comes to us from Laura, a patron.

B (16:49)

Laura says, hi, beauty brains. Happy summer. Two quick questions regarding hair care. And since she is a patron, we don't mind. Two quick questions. All right. She says, I have long, light brown colored hair with black blonde highlights and it is very dry. Previously I used and liked l' Oreal Elvive Extraordinary Oil Rapid Reviver Power Conditioner. Wow. L'. Oreal. Thanks for the very long names. However, it seems it was discontinued and replaced with the l' Oreal Elvive Total Repairs Power Restored for damaged hair. Would you know if this is true? I do like the power restore too, but they seem a little different. All right. It's not uncommon, I guess, for a company to replace one line with another. It sort of streamlines things and it. I guess it makes production easier and more efficient. But what happens usually when they do replace stuff like that?

A (17:52)

Well, this might not be a. A total renaming project. I mean, it might be if the l' Oreal has discovered that maybe the product's not doing as well as they thought it would and they don't perceive it to be a formulation issue and it could be a naming and product positioning issue for sure. They could have just changed the name, maybe highlighted some different product attributes, but it seems that maybe it was a reformulation and maybe the product wasn't doing great. And they said, well, why not change the name to something different? Change a Couple bells and whistles. Or maybe they just kept the same formula and tweaked a little key ingredient. That's fairy dust in the formula. It's really hard to tell. Were you able to find the ingredient list and compare them, Perry?

B (18:43)

Yeah, the oil rapid Reviver, the main ingredient is amodimethicone. Up front, it's. And behem Trimonium chloride. So those are, those are the two main ones there. And for the power restore, we've got dimethicone and behem Trimonium chloride. And it also has a lower level of amodimethicone and C. Tronium chloride also. So the new one seems like it's got a few more conditioning ingredients, but kind of the same ones. Like it has amodimethicone and behentra ammonium chloride, which is, you know, the same as the. The first one, but then it has some additional ones in it. So I think as far as formulations, I could see why she might find differences because they're not exactly the same. The first one had also has camellia oleifera seed oil. So it's going to have a little more oil incorporated into it, whereas the. The new one doesn't really have any of the oils in it.

A (19:54)

Well, it makes sense. The first one was an oil in the name Rapid Reviver, whereas the new one is more about power restore and repair. So presumably more conditioning agents makes a little sense. So sounds like it maybe wasn't a reformulation, but a different formulation.

B (20:12)

Right. So for whatever reason, they replaced this one that you used to like with something new. And it's probably because not enough people were buying the one that they replaced.

A (20:25)

Yeah, that's true. Or, you know, oils are inexpensive until the crop goes bad. Right?

B (20:32)

Yeah.

A (20:33)

So then they say, well, we need something that's maybe not dependent on crops. And. And so they could have done it for cost cutting measures as well. Or maybe they didn't make the formula themselves and they wanted to produce something that they make on their own.

B (20:49)

That's right, because l' Oreal will. First they buy a bunch of brands and they also use contract manufacturers. So usually I would imagine, though, a company like l' Oreal, as a contract manufacturer, they're going to own their formulas. But if they bought a company, they might not necessarily own that formula.

A (21:10)

Well, that's not necessarily the case, Perry. Just a few weeks ago we talked about Urban Decay, which is a l' Oreal owned brand, and the contract manufacturer that used to make that setting spray. L' Oreal pulled that business, launched Their own version of it. And the manufacturer who invented this best selling setting spray has been very public about the separation. So yeah, it's totally possible that a contract manufacturer was making this extraordinary oil rapid reviver for them.

B (21:43)

Yeah, yeah. No, you, you are correct. All right, well that's that. And you know, I hope you. I mean they still use the main conditioning ingredients of amodimethicone and behem trimonium chloride. So I think you're going to get a lot of the same benefits.

A (21:57)

Similar. Slightly different. Yeah. Well, Laura had a second question. What was it said?

B (22:02)

Recently my stylist used K18 shampoo and conditioner on my hair. I've never heard of it and see it is a Unilever brand. Any comments on that line? My stylist was sold and assured me it was the best thing for my bleached dry hair. Please share your thoughts and we. I appreciate all you do, Laura. Wow. K18, she hasn't heard of it. She must not be on social media because that was everywhere, right?

A (22:28)

Oh my gosh. Especially in the salon professional circles for sure. So K18 is a new Unilever brand. It was actually just acquired within the last couple years at 3 years old. An insane amount of money for it. And we'll talk about what happens as a Unilever brand in a second. But it was an independent brand before that and a lot of people are hooked on it. They did a great job getting their first foot in the door of salons.

B (22:55)

Essentially what it is is one of these bond builders. Olaplex was the first popular one and that was based on some mercaptan chemical technology or something like that. K18, their bond builders are based on peptides. So they create this peptide that's supposed to build bonds and hair and make your hair better. And then they did a heck of a marketing job on salons and they built built their K18 as the alternative to Olaplex and you know, did did quite well. Well enough to get the attention of Unilever who just bought them right up.

A (23:33)

So what happens when a company buys a another brand? So I know that you worked at Alberto Culver that was bought by Unilever and I've heard from some ex Alberto employees, not you, that it was Uniqleiver bought them.

B (23:48)

Right. Well, we, this happens a lot with any big brand. A big brand or big company will find a brand that is doing well and it's easier to buy up something that's already doing well than to develop a whole new brand yourself. You know, Unilever. There's nothing K18 did that Unilever couldn't have done. But Unilever has got to figure, well, it's just easier for us to buy you up and take, take the goodwill that's already been developed by your marketing on your own. So it's almost like small brands are like the minor leagues for brands until the big, until they get called up to the show, the big guys buy you. But what happens when a company buys you is that they try to consolidate things like manufacturing, marketing and R and D. And consolidate just means they shut you down and they make you move to Trumbull, Connecticut or something where Unilever is. Unilever bought out Helen Curtis, which used to make, in the Chicago area. They make salon selective swabs, all of those. And they bought them out and they, they were gonna develop a hair care research center in Chicago and that lasted for like 10 years. And they're like, nah, we won't do that. And so they shut them down and they moved everybody to east coast or everybody here in Chicago that they either had to find jobs or move. And that's kind of what happens when you buy, when a big company will buy another. So I don't know where K18 was originally located. They probably didn't have a lot of scientists behind this. I mean you wouldn't really need that many, right?

A (25:32)

No. A brand like this is, you know, probably using contract manufacturers and, and whatnot because it's very rare. Yes, they had this ingredient developed, but not many brands starting out have their own facilities. I would say that's pretty, pretty rare. Now the products themselves are all right. So I used to work at a salon brand. We've tested everything K18. And you know, the, the spray is really what put them on the map. It's this spray that contains a concentrated level of this pest peptide that they have. And that's a really fine product. But the shampoos and conditioners, I mean I, I'm not impressed.

B (26:13)

Well, also they're rinse out, right? So you can't really deliver much from a shampoo. So when you, these bond builders, they're just washing out from a shampoo mostly a conditioner maybe can get a little bit more delivery. But it's really the sprays, the leave on products where you're going to have the maximum effect of the, these bond builders.

A (26:36)

Sometimes when you have a key ingredient story, I actually think it can be detrimental to a hair brand. Yeah, I'll tell you why, Perry, because people think I have this One ingredient, I could just throw it in any shampoo and, or conditioner and it's going to really change the way the product works. And the reality is in hair care, an ingredient doesn't necessarily transform the shampoo, how the shampoo is put together. And it's not very easy to formulate shampoos or conditioners. I mean, sure, a lot of people can make them, they can't make really good ones. And so when you have to me like a subpar surfactant chassis and then you put this like key ingredient in it, you're just not going to see the results I think that you're, you're looking for. Because it's pretty much like any other shampoo on the market with you know, maybe this like peptide tossed in and two, they use in a couple of their shampoos. Just a surfactant combination that I'm not a really big fan of. So if you were going to try the K18 products, I would probably recommend their leave in molecular repair spray and their mask. Their mask is all right.

B (27:54)

Yeah. And as far as the, when the big company bought them, they probably change the formulas. They will, they'll change the formulas eventually. So that would probably, you know, Unilever has some good shampoo formulas. I mean they have Tresemme now that they took from us now, but you know, that's a good performing shampoo. So I could totally see them adapting one of their more consumer liked formulas to the K18 technology. And maybe people like the shampoo better. I don't know.

A (28:27)

We'll see. Our second question comes to us from Misty, also a patron. Hi beauty brains. I saw the FDA issued a warning letter to companies like Supergoop and Vacation that make Moose sunscreens. The language is really confusing. Is it because mousse has not been studied and approved by the FDA as a format?

B (28:47)

Well, this is a great question, Misty, and yes, you're right. I mean it's probably been studied but Moose has not been approved by the FDA as a format. And so that is specifically why these companies got that letter.

A (29:05)

It's interesting because they've actually had this mousse format sunscreen out for a while and other supergoop has other brands have as well. There's tons of brands that have sunscreens in powder format or wipe format which are also not allowed formats. And people have wondered, oh, why is the FDA spending resources on this now? And I actually think it was because Wall Street Journal had a huge article on vacation and how they've made sunscreen. Fun again.

B (29:35)

Yeah.

A (29:36)

And there's nothing more than a government hates than the word fun. So I'm sure that quickly got the attention of the FDA and said sunscreens cannot be fun. And so they've. I don't know why I said that in a pseudo Arnold Schwarzenegger voice. But anyway, they said, whoa, let's stop making this fun, because mousse is not an approved format. Although if I were a lawyer on this case for the brands, I would say isn't technically mousse lotion with temporary air placed inside. Theoretically, once it's put onto the skin, the air volatilizes and that becomes, once again, lotion.

B (30:17)

You know, they should hire you as an expert witness. Yeah. You know, I think the important thing to know here, too, is just because the FDA called these companies out, that doesn't mean the moose form isn't an effective sunscreen. I'm sure if they put SPF on their thing, they probably went and did SPF testing using the mousse and using the levels that you're supposed to use, and they showed that it was working the way they say it is. But the FDA just says, hey, it's not an approved format, so you can't do that. So it's not about does it work or not.

A (30:58)

Now, could the brands petition the FDA to make this an approved format through some kind of not new drug application? Because it's not necessarily a new drug active.

B (31:08)

But no, they could submit a new drug application, an NDA, and the FDA could approve that, but you have to do that on every formula. So you, you, you couldn't just do that. Oh, on this mousse in general, and then you can make a bunch of different formulas. No, you have to make the same formula. And so that's why NDAs are not done very often with something like a sunscreen.

A (31:31)

Well, if I were vacation, I would do it because this formula is pretty good. Yeah, mostly it's the fragrance, I'm not going to lie. Also, I do generally like mousse formats because I think foam in the hand is really fun, but I'm not.

B (31:45)

I've not used the mousse as a sunscreen. Is it easy to apply? I don't think it would seem like it would be a little sticky, you know.

A (31:54)

Yeah. But again, I think it's about it being different. It's fun. You know, I'm a foam hand sanitizer, a foam hand soap kind of girl. So, yeah, you know, for me, that doesn't bother me. It's. No, no, different than any other, you know.

B (32:11)

Sure.

A (32:11)

Sunscreen in that type of sense.

B (32:13)

Right, right, right.

A (32:14)

Yeah.

B (32:15)

I suppose it doesn't have to be sticky either.

A (32:18)

No. The only other thing is, I think I feel like they also got reprimanded a little bit because one thing you can't do is have cosmetic products look like food without some kind of warning, or you have to specifically say they're not for kids.

B (32:34)

Right.

A (32:35)

I think because children's products, even like children's cosmetic products are regulated in that sense where it can't look like it's edible, it's in a whipped cream package like you would get at the grocery store. It just has whip in the hand. I mean, it looks like it could be a food. Food item. And so I. I feel like I recall someone saying that was also an issue.

B (32:58)

That. Yeah, that's probably correct. So I think the bottom line here is that it's not about whether it's been studied or not. It, you know, I'm sure it's studied and you can make effective SPF with a moose version. It's just not approved by the fda. And, you know, they're slow to approve stuff. In fact, I thought sprays for the. For a long time, sprays were not really legal, but somehow they got approved eventually.

A (33:26)

Yeah. So what happens? Do they have to pull it from the market? Like, what's the outcome?

B (33:33)

Yeah, I think they will have to either pull it from the market or they're going to have to fill out the application. Yes, do it. Do an NDA.

A (33:42)

So, well, get the vacation Moose sunscreen while you can. I still see it's on the Ulta website, and so I'll pick a couple up.

B (33:49)

There's a brand like Kalani Sunwear. They've already pulled their mousse sunscreens from the US Website. So some people are already reacting to this being preemptive. They are.

A (34:02)

Is preemptive the word preemptive? Yeah, they're. They're being precautionary.

B (34:08)

Yeah, sure. I think preemptive works there.

A (34:11)

I don't know. I wasn't an English major.

B (34:13)

You know what works also is this audio question that we have. Let me. Let me cue that up.

C (34:19)

Hi, beauty brains. My name is Emma and I'm a hairstylist. And I have a question about purple shampoo and why it's so drying. One of the things that my clients complain to me the most about purple shampoo is how dry it makes their hair feel after they use it. I suggest mixing it with regular shampoo or their regular Shampoo to try and combat that. But what ingredients are in purple shampoo so specifically that make it so drying to everyone's hair? I love listening to your podcast. It's one of my favorite parts of my day. Keep doing what you're doing. It's great. Thank you.

A (34:53)

Oh, thank you, Emma. We love that the show's the favorite part of your day. That makes me feel really good about how I felt last week where I was a little in the dumps about our reviews.

B (35:03)

They love the chit chat, you know, so there you go.

A (35:06)

Oh, wow. Well, we know a bit about purple shampoo.

B (35:10)

Yeah, purple shampoo is the one that is used to make your gray hair kind of blend in and disappear.

A (35:18)

Or if you have yellow hair from bleaching and you have this yellow pigment left, it helps neutralize it.

B (35:24)

Yeah. So it just makes your hair look better. And it all features the dye. What is it? External DNC violet number two.

A (35:31)

Is that also known as acid violet 43 in Europe?

B (35:34)

Oh, there it is. There you go.

A (35:36)

So I call it acid violet 43.

B (35:39)

Well, I'm old school. External D and C violet number two.

A (35:43)

Well, I can't. I can never remember if it gets, like, if it's just D and C, if the external has to be there, or if it's, you know, just D and C violet too. So I just say, you know what, call it by the acid dye name and you don't have to worry about that.

B (35:59)

It's changed over the years. You know, when we were working with this, we, we, for some reason, you know, when we're working in the lab, because you use these dye powders at such tiny, tiny levels.

A (36:11)

Very tiny levels. Very tiny.

B (36:13)

You can't really measure the powder out. So to work with it in a lab, what you would do is make a solution of it. So most of them are water soluble and you could put it in. So you put in 10 grams, you make 100 grams of water. So you have a 10% solution. And that's easier to measure than the powders anyway. We did this with D and C violet too, but it wasn't completely water soluble.

A (36:37)

No, it's not.

B (36:39)

It's partially water soluble. So it kind of could work, but I don't know why we. I just remember the solution had like little globs floating on the top and you had to shake it before using it.

A (36:50)

Well, I, I don't make solutions. I work on an analytical balance. Oh, okay. And I'm used to super teeny amounts. And then knowing, like, where the scale Cuts off for any kind of accuracy. And usually it's pretty good enough. But with purple shampoo, you're right, you're using very tiny amounts, which is crazy because when you get the purple shampoo, it looks so dark purple, hugely dark purple. And consumers are like, oh my gosh, there's so much color. Is this gonna turn my hair dark purple? And it's like there's literally like four decimal places of color in this. It's not going to do anything. So. Well, not that it won't do anything, but you know, it's a use over use type product. You don't have to worry about it turning your hair dark purple.

B (37:32)

So as far as this drying piece goes, it is a little surprising to me that people report that it's drying because otherwise it's a regular shampoo. It just has this purple dye in it and it's in there at such a tiny amount. Why is this causing the dryness in hair?

A (37:49)

Well, believe it or not, this purple shampoo dye, acid violet 43 is actually a bit negatively charged in character. So I wouldn't say it's in any ordinary shampoo. The shampoo can't really have conditioning agents in it because they would complex with this negatively charged dye. And so for this reason, any purple shampoo product tends to be really just a really great cleansing shampoo and doesn't.

B (38:18)

Impart any moisturizing or conditioning.

A (38:22)

Yeah, exactly, because it just, it really can't. Also, a purple shampoo now is so mainstream, you know, it has to have a really good price point. So they tend not to be really elaborate formulas. Also, you don't want these conditioning agents competing for the hair. You want the dye to be able to penetrate the hair. And so they're really just minimalist formulations. Also, I suspect because this dye sits on the surface of the hair, it can't really get in all the way. Consumers may be feeling some of this surface coating on the hair fiber, which may feel like the hair is dry, but it's actually just like this coating from the dye that you feel. So, multitude of factors, but essentially not a conditioning product because chemically it can't be. The formulas are pretty simple and you may be feeling the dye on the outside of the hair because this is ubiquitous across all purple shampoo brands. It's not just like one, it's like every single one. I've heard this complaint.

B (39:25)

And the other thing to consider too is that people who are using these purple shampoos probably have already have dry hair. So it might just Be that your hair already is dry, but. And this shampoo is not doing anything to actually add moisturizing or conditioning to your hair. And so that could come off as, oh, it's a shampoo doing this. But it actually was your hair like that. Another piece that Emma said was that she had recommended that people mix things in with their shampoo to make it more conditioning. I. I'm not sure that that's such a great idea. Just use a conditioner afterwards.

A (40:05)

Yeah, just use a conditioner afterwards. Because again, you don't want anything to interfere with that purple colorant because very little gets into the hair. Even if you use. As a chemist. If I were to put half a percent of this acid, violet 43 or external D&C, violet 2 or violet number 2. See, I can't even remember if you were to put half a percent in. It doesn't really deposit a lot because it's such a huge molecule and it's negatively charged. So it's like an uphill battle to get it onto the hair. So if you just mix it with anything, you would actually be doing a disservice to what the shampoo could do.

B (40:41)

Yeah, you're making the shampoo work worse. Mm.

A (40:45)

Our next question comes to us from Mary Beth.

B (40:48)

Hello.

A (40:48)

I love your podcast. It is making me smarter about how much I believe the marketing hype around products for aging scale skin. Recently, I listened to a podcast with the founder of One Skin who talked about the discovery of the OS01 peptide, which magically reduces signs of aging skin. The products are very expensive. Have you looked into this brand? Are there other brands that have similar peptides that help aging skin? Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Best regards, Mary Beth in New York.

B (41:15)

Oso One Peptide, One Skin again. Well, they must be doing a great job of marketing because it's generating a lot of questions. And in fact, we have talked about this a few times on episodes 344, 382 and 393. And what did we say about it, Valerie?

A (41:41)

Well, we are sure they're great products and if you love the way they make you feel, then keep using them. But it's just very hard to have proof that peptides do anything, especially when any data comes from the brand. Right. You have to take it with a little bit of grain of salt when.

B (42:00)

You have a small brand like Oneskin. And I'm sure the founder goes onto a podcast and they just say, ah, it's the best products. That's. What else are they gonna say? But when you're thinking of the technology and developing of skincare. The biggest breakthroughs are going to be coming from your big companies, your L', Oreals, your P&G's, your Unilever's, because they spend the most money on R D. And if I would be more convinced by a peptide if this was from Olay for example, than it is from some startup brand who I don't know, they stumbled onto some technology that the big guys didn't find. I'm just skeptical. Call it that. And also it's hard to notice differences when you're using any anti aging ingredient because it's going to take what, six weeks before you see anything. If you're going to see anything. And who remembers what their skin looked like six weeks ago?

A (42:56)

Well, my skin looks drastic from day and night, which is actually a thing. There's some research papers on this by the way. I have one on my desktop right now. Well, you know, just because you're your day can really influence the way your skin looks.

B (43:09)

Sure.

A (43:09)

Especially at the end of it. Well, I thought, Perry, we could throw in a bonus question here because we have covered this topic in the past on the OS01 peptide and the One Skin brand. So here we have an alternate question. And guess what? You're going to be so happy with this.

B (43:27)

I am. This person actually specifically requested that we do an AI voice and make it an Australian man. So let's do that now.

D (43:37)

Hi Beauty Brains. I've been tempted by TikTok ads for a new barrier strengthening moisturizer from Experiment Beauty called Molecular Mesh. They rely heavily on videos from their cosmetic chemists to explain the special ingredients of the product. They especially highlight ectoin, phytosohenosine, glycerin, centella, liposomes and and Guaya zuleen. Thoughts? Thanks.

B (44:03)

All right. Have you heard of this brand Experiment with the special molecular mesh?

A (44:08)

I actually have heard of them and this is a very popular product right now. And for good reason.

B (44:15)

I see.

A (44:16)

For very good reason. One, I mean it looks gen looks very Gen Z or Gen Alpha. You know, it's bright colors, it's you know, blue on blue and yeah, um, you know it's just very grabby from that perspective. But they're using a lot of great language and key ingredients that are resonating with consumers right now. So everyone is about barrier strengthening, barrier repair. This is a barrier strengthening moisturizer, has a fun name, molecular mesh. You know, I don't really know what that means but they're using a couple ingredients that are buzzing right now. Primarily ectoin, which Sharon, or Sharon in the Australian accent, you know, highlighted phytosphingosine, which is actually a type of ceramide found within the stratum corneum of skin. Your stratum corneum, your outermost layer, has about 45% ceramide content. And then centella, specifically centella. Liposomes. Liposomes are also really hot right now, so I feel like they have a lot of sleep stuff going for them. And I would believe that this is a really great moisturizer.

B (45:27)

So liposomes, ceramides, and amino acids.

A (45:32)

Well, ectoin, they call it an amino acid, but it's not really an amino acid. Are you familiar with it?

B (45:38)

Yeah, yeah. It's like. It's definitely not one of the 20amino acids that make up the proteins in human bodies, but I think it's some sort of derivative of amino acids. So it has the.

A (45:50)

It has the carboxylic acid group, it has the amine group. So it has a similar structure, and they call it an amino acid. But that's actually a really great material. My favorite serum that I've been using this last year is actually an ectoin serum prototype from an ectoin supplier. So, yeah, I've been really impressed with this, with this molecule. But, yeah, just a really nice moisturizer. They have a lot of oils, like capryllo, capric triglyceride, safflower seed oil, and then they have a bunch of humectants, emollients, in it to make it feel really luxurious on skin. And then just, you know, with ceramides, you actually don't need a lot. They impart a really big oomph on skin. I'm talking, like, less than 0.1% in a formula. You would feel the impact of a ceramide.

B (46:39)

It is interesting that she says that they rely heavily on their videos of their cosmetic chemists to explain their special ingredients. I mean, that's a marketing strategy, I guess.

A (46:51)

Yeah, everyone likes to see that there's some brains behind the operation. So I think that's a really nice strategy that they've employed. But, you know, I don't think they need that. I think they have some great stuff.

B (47:03)

Well, if you're going for, like, a sciencey story, which is what they're going for here, I could see that, that angle. It, you know, whenever you put, like, a lab coat on somebody, it makes what they're saying seem more legitimate, even if it's just marketing gobbledygook. But because the molecular mesh. What is. What is this? That's like, not science. That's just a marketing term. Well, looking at their founders, it does look like they do have chemistry backgrounds.

A (47:35)

Yeah. I think one of them has worked in the industry a little bit. So that's kind of cool to see that there is a bit of real knowledge going into the product. Sometimes it's just like a. Well, you know, sometimes it's like a cover story, right?

B (47:46)

Well, yeah, exactly.

A (47:48)

This doesn't feel like a cover story.

B (47:50)

Well, it's a huge challenge, in my opinion, for scientists to launch beauty products because so much of a beauty product success is based on the marketing and the marketing story that you can tell. And honestly, you kind of have to believe some BS to be able to, like, talk confidently. You get you to. When you're a scientist, you kind of have to be skeptical of things that you hear and read. And you're like, oh, this does that. And you're like, does it really? And while that makes for good science, it does not make for good selling and marketing. So that's what the big challenge is.

A (48:26)

Exactly. Well, that's why I think they have done so well is because they have two co founders. One is more in the lab base and the other has a chemistry degree. But I don't think that they've worked on the chemistry side of our industry. So I think more of a beauty aficionado. So you have that person who can provide that hope in the bottle. But, yeah, it looks very fun and they're doing very well. And I'm sure it's a really great moisturizer.

B (48:51)

Yeah. Well, those are our thoughts. And looks like we got time for.

A (48:56)

One more comes to us from Jillian.

B (48:59)

Jillian says this is for Valerie. Hello, and thank you so much for your wonderful podcast. I'm a new listener and soon to be Patreon supporter. Regarding the topic of rosacea, I did try scanning through the years of episodes to find ones, but no avail. How do you deal with rosacea? I'm contacting you specifically, Valerie, with this question because on a recent episode, I heard you mention that you deal with rosacea. And I'd like to pass on professional info on this topic to my stepson's girlfriend who deals with the condition. Thank you for your attention to my question. Oh, my God. Thank you for your attention this matter. Thanks so much, Jillian.

A (49:40)

Well, we have talked about it before, but you're right. I guess it would be kind of hard to find because it's Right.

B (49:46)

Right.

A (49:46)

We don't.

B (49:47)

We don't index our podcasts very well yet. Maybe we'll get some AI.

A (49:52)

We should. Yeah. So I do struggle with rosacea. And actually when I was pregnant, which none of you guys knew about because I kept it a secret from everyone, even in the industry, I actually, for the first trimester and a half, suffered horribly from. I have pustular rosacea. And I just looked, like, horrible the whole time. It was a huge breakout all over my cheeks.

B (50:19)

You didn't look horrible.

A (50:20)

My nose, which is where I get it.

B (50:22)

Yeah, I didn't.

A (50:23)

Well, yeah. Well, thank you, Perry. Thank you. So, yeah, I really struggled with it, especially during the pregnancy, which is like, why couldn't I get cute symptoms? Right. That didn't impact my face. But anyway, so I have a prescription for this purpose. Azelaic acid, 15%, which is a prescription strength in the United States. And a lot of brands are jumping on the azelaic acid bandwagon because they just kind of blanket say it helps with rosacea, but that's not really the case. It specifically helps with pustular rosacea. And lightly. And I'm talking, like, it takes months exfoliating the surface of your skin. It's a very weak acid from this perspective. So. And you have to use a ton of it, obviously, 15% to get this result. And they don't really know how the mechanism works. So that's what I do. However, it depends what type of rosacea your stepson's girlfriend has. Has, because some rosacea just appears as, like, red, flushed skin or you have, like, a lot of small visible blood vessels. I don't have those per se, like, on my cheeks, but I have them on my nose. But I have the pustular type of rosacea, which looks like little pus dots all over my skin. And you can pop them like pimples. Although I don't recommend it, I do that anyway. And then some people have rosacea just, like, on their nose and think of, like, the classic old man who has, like, this really huge nose. And I think. I think it's called a bulb nose or something like that. It's very bulbous looking, and it just, like, has lots of capillaries and bumps and lumps on it. So the most important thing that your stepson's girlfriend can do is get diagnosed by a doctor. Yep. Stay away from products that can be irritating, like acids, retinoids, you know, all the good things that people want to put on their skin. She really just has to find out what makes it worse. It might not even be Topical skincare. That makes it worse. It might be like, things she's eating or stress, but there's definitely, like a trigger for it because rosacea is an inflammatory condition. So she'll have to figure out, like, what the triggers are and maybe even keep, like a little trigger diary. Like somebody who has migraines would keep a diary on what's triggering their migraines. You could do the same thing for rosacea, but it's important to get the type diagnosed and then get the correct care prescribed for that.

B (52:45)

Yeah. The other things that are topical are anti inflammatories, you know, and not everything works for everyone. So an anti inflammatory, a topical might not work for somebody. So then they. There's oral medications that you get. But again, you know, we're not doctors, so I'm not gonna suggest any medication specifically. You go to a doctor. But those are the kinds of things that the doctor will suggest.

A (53:10)

Exactly. So, Jillian, hopefully that helps your stepson's girlfriend. And thank you for your compliments on the show.

B (53:16)

Speaking of show, do you hear that music?

A (53:19)

I hear thunder, and that means I have to go before our Internet cuts out.

B (53:23)

Wait, did. Did we change the music? The thunder and the lightning.

A (53:29)

Oh, I hate that song. I was hoping you could put Thunderstruck on it, but we might get in trouble. But maybe not, because we actually don't generate ad revenue from this podcast.

B (53:38)

Right, exactly. So YouTube will flag the ads and then nobody will get anything in it.

A (53:43)

Do you think you could make AI version of Thunderstruck but for our show and so we don't get in trouble because that's the Dallas Cowboys cheerleader song.

B (53:53)

Oh, is it? Wow, that's fun. Well, we'll see what happens. Wait till the end. End of the show and you might see it.

A (53:59)

Oh, my gosh. Thanks for listening, everyone. If you get a chance, head over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave us a review that's going to help other people Positive.

B (54:06)

Find the show that we want Valerie to feel good.

A (54:09)

Help my self esteem. I'm. I have postpartum stuff. I need an esteem boost that's going to help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer.

B (54:19)

Speaking of questions, if you have a question, just record it on your smartphone and email it to the Beautybrains and you can get on the show with your voice. Or if you like the AI voices, just let us know what AI accent you want and we can put that on too. Or you can also use the form in the show notes of this episode.

A (54:41)

Or our 1, 800 number. Has anyone else done that yet?

B (54:44)

I have gotten some 1, 800 numbers. You can leave a voicemail with our number 872-216-1856.

A (54:56)

Is this a number? I can also get a hold of you at if I need to tell you something.

B (55:00)

No, I do not answer it, but if you do still leave a message, Yes, I will. I will see it.

A (55:06)

The Beauty Brains are also on Patreon. You might have heard over the show we mentioned some of our listeners are patrons. This show is ad free. We do not have pesky ads. We are not corporate shills. And so we have to fund the show somehow. So we have a Patreon account and essentially the show is supported by our listeners like you. If you'd like to support the show at any level, you can head over to patreon.com forward/thebeautybrains and subscribe.

B (55:33)

And you also get a transcript of the show. You get your questions a higher priority and on occasion we will do patronage only events.

A (55:43)

Don't forget to follow us on our various social media accounts on Instagram where at the Beautybrains 2018 on X worth the Beauty Brains on Blue sky, we're at the Beauty Brains. We have a Facebook page, a TikTok and a YouTube channel at the BeautyBrains 2018.

B (55:57)

Yeah, you can just listen to us on YouTube if you like to listen that way. And someday we might even show a little recording from our face to face here.

A (56:08)

But not today because I look terrible.

B (56:11)

Oh come on, you look great.

A (56:13)

Thanks again for listening everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

B (56:18)

Thanks everyone. Kittens.