Episode 381 - Can babies eat sunscreen? and other beauty questions

Summary

The Beauty Brains: Episode 381 Summary Release Date: December 11, 2024

In Episode 381 of The Beauty Brains, hosts Valerie George and Perry Romanowski delve into a range of intriguing beauty topics, from the safety of baby sunscreen ingestion to evaluating the efficacy of retinols versus prescription retinoids. This comprehensive discussion is enriched with expert insights, real-world applications, and thoughtful recommendations, making it an invaluable resource for beauty enthusiasts and professionals alike.

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1. Beauty News: The 'Natural' Label Under Scrutiny

[04:07 - 08:28]

The episode kicks off with Perry addressing a recent class-action lawsuit against Dr. Squatch for misleading "natural" claims on their products. Perry explains that Dr. Squatch allegedly used synthetic ingredients like decyl glucoside and coco glucoside while marketing their products as natural, highlighting a longstanding issue within the cosmetics industry.

Notable Quote:

Perry Romanowski [04:48]: "Nowadays, you'd be sued for that. Although I will say there are still some big natural brands that are using ingredients that aren't found in nature."

Valerie adds that refining natural ingredients often involves processes that technically render them unnatural, such as using citric acid or clays to remove impurities. The hosts emphasize the complexity of labeling products as "natural" and predict more lawsuits in this domain.

Key Takeaways:

• Definition Challenges: The term "natural" is increasingly scrutinized, with legal implications for misleading claims.
• Industry Practices: Many so-called natural ingredients undergo processing, blurring the lines between natural and synthetic.
• Consumer Awareness: Brands may need to reassess their labeling to avoid legal pitfalls.

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2. Most Searched Brands & Top Influencers of 2024

[08:28 - 19:42]

Valerie and Perry explore the most searched beauty brands of 2024, noting familiar names like La Roche-Posay, L'Oréal, and Olaplex. They discuss the fluctuating popularity of these brands, attributing declines in searches for brands like Olaplex to potential market saturation or product performance issues.

Notable Quote:

Valerie George [09:38]: "I actually follow."

The conversation shifts to top social media influencers, highlighting figures such as James Charles, Jeffree Star, Mary Bretman, and Rock Nikki Tutorials. The hosts observe that having male influencers like Bretman Rock and Nikki Tutorials challenges traditional gender norms in the beauty influencer space, making their channels more memorable.

Key Takeaways:

• Brand Popularity: Established brands remain dominant, while others experience significant search interest fluctuations.
• Influencer Dynamics: Increasing diversity among top influencers, including more male voices, enhances relatability and engagement.
• Emerging Trends: New brands like Fleur and Rhode are gaining traction, indicating shifting consumer preferences.

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3. Evaluating DIY Beauty Treatments

[14:30 - 20:04]

The hosts critically assess popular DIY beauty treatments using common kitchen ingredients. Perry introduces the topic by listing various home concoctions, prompting Valerie and Perry to evaluate their safety and efficacy.

Notable Quote:

Valerie George [15:13]: "Honey is full of sugar humectants. There's lots of other beneficial compounds in honey."

Evaluated DIY Treatments:

• Honey and Oatmeal Face Mask: Approved for its moisturizing and soothing properties, provided there are no allergies.
• Coconut Oil Hair Mask: While some may benefit from its conditioning effects, Valerie expresses personal dislike due to its texture and potential to weigh hair down.
• Sugar and Lemon Scrub: Discouraged due to the acidic nature of lemon juice and potential for skin irritation.
• Yogurt and Turmeric Mask: Generally safe but caution advised due to turmeric staining.
• Avocado and Banana Hair Mask: Not recommended for easy application and residue issues.
• Green Tea Toner: Limited benefits as antioxidants may degrade during preparation.
• Coffee Body Scrub & Aloe Vera Cucumber Gel: Acceptable with considerations for messiness and odor.

Key Takeaways:

• Safety First: Always consider potential skin sensitivities and ingredient interactions.
• Efficacy Varies: Store-bought products are often more reliable in delivering consistent results.
• Best Practices: Proper formulation and ingredient selection are crucial for effective skincare treatments.

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4. Beauty Questions Answered

a. Can Babies Eat Sunscreen?

[24:03 - 28:46]

Hillary inquires about the safety of her baby ingesting sunscreen through mouthing behavior. Valerie and Perry discuss the differences between mineral sunscreens (containing titanium dioxide and zinc oxide) and chemical sunscreens, emphasizing that mineral options are generally safer for infants due to their lower potential for irritation and toxicity.

Notable Quote:

Valerie George [27:07]: "Those are already considered great, Ross, by the FDA, which is generally regarded as safe."

Recommendations:

• Opt for mineral-based sunscreens for infants.
• Avoid sunscreens with harsh chemicals that haven't been evaluated for ingestion safety.
• Use ample amounts to minimize residue that could be ingested.

b. Effective Conditioning Ingredients for Dry Hair

[28:57 - 34:39]

Sumia seeks advice on conditioning ingredients to manage her dry, split-ended hair. Valerie and Perry recommend incorporating rinse-off conditioners with specific ingredients like amodimethicone, which provides color protection and reduces frizz without long-term buildup. They also suggest focusing conditioner on the mid-lengths to ends of the hair to prevent weighing down the roots.

Notable Quote:

Valerie George [31:17]: "I really love Ammo dimethicone. It's a positively charged silicone."

c. Using Body Wash as Hand Soap Substitute

[34:57 - 38:37]

Yihan from Singapore asks whether body wash can replace hand soap. Valerie and Perry confirm that body wash and hand soap are largely interchangeable since both are liquid cleansers formulated for skin. However, they caution against using shampoos as hand soaps due to conditioning agents that may not be suitable for all skin types.

Notable Quote:

Perry Romanowski [35:16]: "It's Singapore."

d. Retinols vs. Retin A (Tretinoin)

[38:37 - 43:36]

Grace questions the efficacy and long-term results of over-the-counter retinols compared to prescription Retin A (tretinoin). Valerie explains that tretinoin is the purest form of retinoic acid and undergoes direct application without needing conversion in the skin, making it more potent and effective. Retinols and other derivatives require metabolic conversion, resulting in slower and potentially less pronounced results.

Notable Quote:

Valerie George [40:10]: "Retin A, you're using probably A tinier amount than you would of a retinol because the retinol has to go through a conversion process."

Recommendations:

• Prescription Retinoids: Offer more immediate and significant results but can cause initial skin irritation.
• Over-the-Counter Retinols: Less potent, may require consistent use over a longer period to achieve comparable benefits.
• Usage Tips: Gradually acclimate the skin to retinoids to minimize irritation and maximize efficacy.

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Conclusion

Throughout Episode 381, Valerie and Perry provide expert analysis on pressing beauty concerns, backed by scientific knowledge and industry experience. From navigating the complexities of "natural" product labeling to offering practical solutions for everyday beauty challenges, this episode equips listeners with the information needed to make informed decisions about their beauty routines.

Notable Conclusion Quote:

Valerie George [45:06]: "Remember, be brainy about your beauty."

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Resources & Further Engagement Listeners are encouraged to engage with The Beauty Brains through various platforms, including Patreon for exclusive content and social media channels for updates and discussions. This episode exemplifies the podcast's commitment to demystifying beauty science and empowering consumers with reliable information.

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This summary captures the essence of Episode 381, providing a structured overview of the discussions and insights shared by Valerie George and Perry Romanowski. For a deeper dive into each topic, tuning into the full episode is highly recommended.

Transcript

[Valerie George]

Hi, I'm Valerie and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetics industry. This is episode 381. I'm your host, Valerie George, and with me today is Perry Romanowski. Hello, Perry.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hey, Valerie. This is actually Perry. No, not virtual Perry.

[Valerie George]

Oh, thank God. Because on today's show, the actual Valerie and the actual Perry are going to cover lots of questions including what can you use to fight static? Is it okay for babies to eat sunscreen? What are the best ingredients to use for conditioning hair? What is the difference between body wash and hand soap? And how does the performance of various retinols compare to Retin A? But first, first, inane chitchat.

[Perry Romanowski]

Valerie, you were gone for a little while. I did a solo episode. What have you been up to? We haven't seen you in a while.

[Valerie George]

Oh, I've been very, very, very busy. We have been planning to go on some end of year trips, me and Mr. Cosmetic Chemist. It's our ten year wedding anniversary. Congratulations. Yeah, we were going to go to a very remote Pacific island. We thank God insured it because now we can't. But I was gone preparing for all the leaving and now I'm. I'm not leaving, so.

[Perry Romanowski]

Ah, well, big disappointment. Hopefully you get to the island at some other point.

[Valerie George]

I know I was really upset, but life happens, so that's what's happening.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. You know, a place I want to go, I want to go to Madagascar sometime. Oh, it's like a remote island, right?

[Valerie George]

One of my customers went there and I should say client. One of my clients went there and it's incredible place. I actually love Africa. I've been to Africa. I've not been to Madagascar and it's really, really quite special. So I think you should go.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, it's on my list. Although I was thinking of also there's a marathon that you run in Antarctica. I got an ad for that. Like, hey, do you want to do this?

[Valerie George]

Why do that when you live in Chicago? It's like Antarctic, very cold.

[Perry Romanowski]

I know, but I bet nobody has ever run and juggled a marathon in Antarctica.

[Valerie George]

There you go. Always looking for the record that can be set.

[Perry Romanowski]

But then I saw it was like $25,000 to do. So I'm like, unless I get a GoFundMe thing.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, you know, I don't know if it's that high on the bucket list. You know, I think we're set I'll.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wait till it warms up there. You know, speaking of warming up, I am going to LA for the Society of Cosmetic Chemists end of the year meeting.

[Valerie George]

I'm very disappointed we won't get to see each other again. I was planning to be there with you. We were actually going to record a live show together. That's right. And not able to attend again. Thank goodness for at least being a points holder with places because, you know, they're very forgiving when you, you know, are frequent traveler and they say, oh, you know, Mrs. George, we understand. So that's good. But I'm so jealous you're gonna get to go see all the talks.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, well, we'll. We'll see. Hopefully it's worthwhile. I saw some of the scheduled talks. I'm like, really? That's. But there are a lot of good ones too, so we'll see.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, it's, you know, it's hard because a lot of the research is done by all of the raw material manufacturers.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

And sometimes it's good and sometimes it's like this is a secret sales pitch and I don't appreciate it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, it's really a challenge looking at science in the cosmetic industry because it is an industry and they're trying to sell something. And so sometimes the science gets a little, well, let's just say biased.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I look forward to hearing all about the show from you. Let's head over to Beauty News.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, first article I saw saw was about this company. Dr. Squatch is being sued for deceptive natural claims, apparently amid growing consumer scrutiny. It's. A recent class action lawsuit was brought against Dr. Squatch because they said their products are natural, but then they don't use. They use some synthetic ingredients. So this is kind of not new. I guess the new part is because the cosmetic industry has been doing this forever. I mean, when I worked on the first VO5 naturals, we just called it naturals and put some herbal extracts in it. And that was natural.

[Valerie George]

Well, you guys would have been sued nowadays.

[Perry Romanowski]

Nowadays you'd be sued for that. Although I will say there are still some big natural brands that are using ingredients that aren't found in nature. Like nobody. Desylglucoside is not found in nature. So if that's your surfactant, how do you say it's natural?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, I mean, that's really the basis of these lawsuits. Right? Is that, oh, you led me to believe that everything actually came from a plant material or nature. And if I, I would have known that, you know, caprylo Capric triglyceride was a processed material, even though it's fractionated out of coconut oil, which is a pretty natural process. I wouldn't have bought it. And, you know, you need to pay up or I'm going to sue you. It's, it's really sad. And I have a couple clients, I have a couple friends, you know, at companies. You know, in my previous life, we got hit with this stuff all the time. It's really just people. It's actually really disgusting if you ask me. It's people looking to make a cash grab on brands.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, well, interestingly enough, in this lawsuit, they specifically call out decyl glucoside and coco glucoside as ingredients. They said they're synthetic because they're produced in reactions with glucose and coconut. In the cosmetic industry, that's the kind of thing that passes for natural. Whereas if it came from petroleum, then you necessarily couldn't call it natural. But everything is synthetic. There's very few ingredients which are exactly from nature. And honestly, you really wouldn't want that because it would just take up so much land. It would just be obscenely expensive.

[Valerie George]

Well, additionally, even like plant oils that you crush from a fruit, you have to refine them. And the refining process is considered, considered natural. You pass it through citric acid, you pass it through diatomaceous earth or clays to filter out heavy metals and stuff that you really don't want and can't have in your products. Even plants have that stuff. So would that be considered natural? No.

[Perry Romanowski]

See, this is where I go with natural, though. I'm like, everything is natural. There's natural and there's supernatural. And we don't have any proof of the supernatural. So everything's natural.

[Valerie George]

Oh, goodness. Well, technically, we could even argue that petroleum's natural in some kind of way, right?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, no, petroleum is definitely natural. It's as natural as. Nobody makes petroleum. In fact, it was made from what, dead dinosaurs and dead forest and such.

[Valerie George]

Thanks, universe.

[Perry Romanowski]

How much more natural can you get than petroleum? But people don't really look at it that way, right?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, they certainly don't. Well, we're definitely going to continue to see more lawsuits like this. They're out there. You know, it's not as exciting as the talc lawsuits. You know, this is more quick money, cash grab type stuff. But, you know, it's still a little exciting. It's like seeing a yellow card in soccer. You're like, when's the red card coming?

[Perry Romanowski]

I think it could be that maybe companies will just stop using the word natural. If they win this lawsuit and it gets dismissed, then you know, everyone will just keep using natural. But I don't know, I would say I, I would see natural going away. If anybody loses a lawsuit like this.

[Valerie George]

Well, the companies are definitely going to remove it from their packaging. And if you are a brand listening to this and you have anything natural about the product on your packaging, please share this with your leadership because these are not going away. And it you have to ask yourself, is it worth the 50, $100,000, whatever you have to pay to get rid of these attorneys. It's really expensive.

[Perry Romanowski]

The other thing I did find interesting is that this is not like a huge brand. Dr. Squatch is not a big company.

[Valerie George]

So it is a bigger brand. Dr. Squatch is a bigger brand. They're getting a lot of news because they've you know, received investment money. They have surpassed the multi hundred million mark in sales. So someone said, well let me take a look. They have the funds to pay up.

[Perry Romanowski]

There you go. Beware of the next natural brand.

[Valerie George]

Oh goodness. Well, you know we are nearing the end of the year, Perry and so of course in the coming weeks you and I will look at our past predictions, we'll make new predictions. But everyone else is already looking at 2024 and saying what was happening. So in GCI magazine we found a most searched brands and top influencers of 2024 list. And I thought we could take a look at them.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, you know I was looking at this and the, the top search brands didn't really surprise me.

[Valerie George]

Not at all.

[Perry Romanowski]

La Roche, Posay, Saravay. I see them mentioned a lot.

[Valerie George]

Plus they had the really great super bowl commercial earlier this year with Michael Cera.

[Perry Romanowski]

I actually embarrassingly not familiar with Sol de Janeiro.

[Valerie George]

Yes you are the bum bum cream. The Brazilian bum bum cream in the yellow jar and it smells so good.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That ordinary L'Occitane, Charlotte Tilbury. Yeah. Estee Lauder, L'Oreal, Olaplex is still up there. Although they seem to have run on some rocky times.

[Valerie George]

Maybe that's why they're most searched.

[Perry Romanowski]

Ah yes, yeah, good, good point. And then Cetaphil, of course. One of the things that I found interesting about this list, they list the top five social media influencers as well.

[Valerie George]

They did, yeah. James Charles, Mary Maria Bretman, Rock Nikki tutorials and Jeffree Star. Now I've only heard of James Charles and Jeffrey Star and I actually follow.

[Perry Romanowski]

None of these people right I don't either. I've heard of James Charles and Jeffree Star. Yes. There was a couple of things about this, though. Isn't it kind of weird that three out of the top five beauty influencers are male?

[Valerie George]

That's pretty cool. Maybe that's what makes it memorable. Right. Because in order for people to say, oh, wow, yeah, this person's cool. Oh, wait, what did they say? You have to remember them. Right. And so I think having a male interested in makeup and beauty reviews, that's not typical historically. So I think it makes it an interesting channel to remember and come back to.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. I just wonder maybe I should start being a beauty influencer.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Well, you had some great recommendations on our podcast with Jonathan Van Ness.

[Perry Romanowski]

Never leave home without toothpaste.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my God. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see Jeffree star James Charles. They've appeared on these lists before, but I think Mary Bretman and Nikki are new to the top five social media influencers, so it'll be cool to see if a year from now they hang on.

[Perry Romanowski]

And this Bretman Rock, I just never heard of Bretman Rock.

[Valerie George]

I don't think that's a real name. I'm just gonna throw this out there. It's kind of like Rob Zombie, you know, like Rob Zombie's, you know, parents aren't Jeff and Darlene Zombie. Right. Seems kind of like a stage name.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, yeah. I mean, probably a stage name. Although he's based in Honolulu, Hawaii. Could be. Could be.

[Valerie George]

All right, well, we'll see. Well, three brands are losing popularity. Nude Sticks has a 30%, 33% search decrease over the last year. Olaplex down 60, 66% in the search engines. Wow. And they've even, you know, they're towards at the bottom end of the 10th, so it'll be interesting to see if they can even hang on in 2020.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, they'll probably fall off next year. Yeah.

[Valerie George]

And then Pink Honey UK. I've never heard of them. 18 decrease. And.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah, I. I've not heard of the brand, but I think it's a fragrance maybe. But Nudestik is a makeup brand or something.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, I bought some of their products before. They're all right. But a brand I forgot about, to be honest.

[Perry Romanowski]

There you go. Well, that's because they're. Nobody's searching them anymore.

[Valerie George]

Oh, goodness.

[Perry Romanowski]

And then some of these brands that are rising stars. Fleur, 400% increase.

[Valerie George]

That's a fragrance company. Yep.

[Perry Romanowski]

Okay. Rhode. 232%.

[Valerie George]

Do you know Who? Rhode Island?

[Perry Romanowski]

I do not.

[Valerie George]

It's Hailey Bieber's brand.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Valerie George]

You knew that.

[Perry Romanowski]

I know. Now it makes sense. And summer Fridays, you know, so there's summer Fridays. There's already Sunday Riley's. I think we're gonna get a day of the week for.

[Valerie George]

I think there actually is a hair care brand called like, Monday or something like that.

[Perry Romanowski]

Monday. I wonder. You'd have to do the calendar of brands.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my goodness. Well, hopefully maybe this year it'll fill in.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, we'll see. All right, well, I. I don't think it's a terrible thing that we don't follow beauty influencers, Is it? Does that mean we're out of touch? I don't know.

[Valerie George]

I think we are beauty influencers. I'm just kidding. No, I think, you know, for me, the social media influencers, it's, you know, get ready with me. Let me. I'll show you how to create this. Look, I reviewed this product. Product, and, you know, at least in the hair space, I'm already, like, reviewing products because I basically have to. Anything that launches, I have to be on the up and up on. And, you know, I'm maybe not posting about it, but, you know, I'm not really interested in what other people have to say about it. So, you know, I'm not really on there following people.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, that's a good point. All right, we have one last one that I saw.

[Valerie George]

Okay.

[Perry Romanowski]

DIY beauty treatments.

[Valerie George]

This is right up my alley because I have an ingredient business where I sell ingredients to people to make their own products.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right, so let's. I thought it'd be fun to just look at some of these and say, is that really something you should do?

[Valerie George]

Well, yeah. The catch in this article title is using simple kitchen ingredients. I think that's. That's the catch there. We. You want to be very careful going into your kitchen. So let's see if some of these are even good or not.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right, here's what they say. The top DIY beauty treatments using simple kitchen ingredients. First, they say, do a honey and oatmeal face mask.

[Valerie George]

I don't mind this. I'll tell you why. Honey is full of sugar humectants. There's lots of other beneficial compounds in honey. I don't think there's. Unless you have a specific allergy, maybe to pollen or something, I don't think it's a bad thing. Oatmeal also has a lot of beneficial compounds in them. Avene, anthramides. I think it is like Aveeno, the brand is based on this entire thing.

[Perry Romanowski]

Aveno's all based on.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, yeah. So this is really valuable. Now, are those compounds gonna seep out into this honey mask on your face? I don't know, but I would say this combo can't hurt.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. And the other thing is, it's. It's. You don't have to worry about bacteria microbes too much because there's no water here.

[Valerie George]

So you're not storing it premixed. You're making it at the time, using it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Okay. The next one is a coconut oil hair mask.

[Valerie George]

Huge pass for me. I. I hate coconut oil for hair, I think. Yeah, I just. I don't like the feel of it on my hair, I think, you know, it depends on the temperature you're in. Under 72 degrees Fahrenheit, it's basically a solid. And so depending on where you're at, what temperature you're at, it has the ability to basically solidify on the outside of the hair. It can penetrate a little bit, but again, it depends what you're doing. I just don't think it's like the most beneficial thing to put on your hair. You know, if you want a little hair strength improvement, that's fine. But in general, to me, it's just a pass, but it won't hurt you. So that's just a preference.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. But they say, you know, put it on, focus on the ends, leave it on a hair, mask out a half hour, and then wash it with shampoo. Okay. I'm not sure you'll get much benefit, but it's not bad. Then they have a sugar and lemon scrub pass.

[Valerie George]

I, first of all, don't like sugar on skin, especially if you are. I mean, it's not bad, you know, but if you have any water present, the water is going to dissolve the sugar right away and you're going to lose the exfoliating benefit. So you would want to put this onto the skin dry, but you would want to put the sugar in an oil of some kind.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, they. Well, they do say do it in a teaspoon of olive oil, a tablespoon of lemon juice, and a tablespoon of sugar.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, the lemon juice is an absolute. And again, the sugar is just my preference. I think it's silly if you're going to have any kind of wet environment because the sugar will just dissolve and the crystals can't exfoliate. But when you introduce lemon juice, you're introducing phototoxic and allergenic compounds to the skin. It's extremely acidic. And you can actually do more harm than good to your skin. So lemon juice on your skin, on your hair, is a pass.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right, just a couple more. They say do a yogurt and turmeric mask.

[Valerie George]

I'm sure it's fine. The good news is you could eat it, you know, slip a little in your mouth.

[Perry Romanowski]

You probably get more benefit by eating it again.

[Valerie George]

It could just soften the skin. Turmeric can stain the skin, though, so just, you know, use caution.

[Perry Romanowski]

Here's an avocado and banana hair mask.

[Valerie George]

I've done that before. And you would be shocked how much of it gets stuck in your hair and on your scalp. So I would just say, like, if you're going to do that, use caution. I prefer traditional conditioning products.

[Perry Romanowski]

I would agree there. I just. That seems like a bad, bad idea. It'll be hard to wash out a green tea toner. So make green tea and wash your face with it. I. It's. It's not bad. It's. I don't think you're going to get any benefit beyond just, you know, water.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. I don't know if any antioxidants would be present because it's, you know, they're steeping in hot tea and, you know, then they're exposed to air while you let the tea cool and, you know, then you're putting it on your face. I don't. I don't know that you would get.

[Perry Romanowski]

They say it's going to help tighten pores and control oil production and reduce puffiness. I. I don't think so.

[Valerie George]

I once put black tea bags on my eyes, and that was a big mistake. Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

Speaking of mistake, then there's one more here. No, two more here. The coffee body scrub.

[Valerie George]

You know, that's not bad, but it does make a big mess in the shower and it can be very stinky.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. And then finally, we have the aloe vera cucumber gel.

[Valerie George]

I'm sure it's fine.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So there you go. Those are the 10 DIYs. I personally think all of these things can work to some extent, but a properly formulated product that you buy at the store is going to work better.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's why these things were invented, because the natural stuff just didn't work as well.

[Valerie George]

That's true. Well, let's head over to beauty questions. Our first question comes to us from Amanda, a patron on Patreon. Hi, Perry and Valerie. Now that it's cold and the heat has turned on, I'm constantly getting zapped at work, anytime I open a door, I'm zapped by the stainless steel handles. And I was just zapped when turning off the lights. Is there an anti static lotion or something that could be added to a lotion? What about ACL Staticide 7001 High Tech Hand Lotion on Amazon?

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, that was an interesting one that I saw.

[Valerie George]

We've never had a question like that. Although it is annoying in the winter getting shocked by static electricity, it definitely.

[Perry Romanowski]

Is annoying with that. So I was curious about this. She does mention a type of product, the ACL Staticide. And I looked this up and it essentially is water, propylene glycol and glycerol, stearic acid and acetyl alcohol. So a very basic humectant heavy skin lotion. So it's not going to be like great for being very moisturizing, but it'll be perfectly fine. But I was curious in the, in the marketing of this. They specifically mentioned it's free from glycerin, silicone, lanolin and mineral oil. And I thought, well, why would they avoid that? Because all of those things are really good for preventing static. And it turns out in the electronics industry specifically that that's a problem because it can get on the opponents. And so specifically in that industry, they would rather not have those things around.

[Valerie George]

Wow. Well, it sounds like, you know, static electricity is caused by buildup of electrons. Right, Right. It's much like when you take up a rubber balloon and latex balloon and rub it all over your hair. You get static electricity because of all the negative charges building up.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yes.

[Valerie George]

So do you think that humectants like propylene glycol, propanediol glycerin, do you think they're effective at mitigating this negative electron transfer?

[Perry Romanowski]

I think that they can increase the, what, the conductivity of your surface. And so it'll help to dissipate the static electricity. That would be my guess.

[Valerie George]

So in theory, any lotion would work because all lotions have these items.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. In theory, any lotion should work. I can understand that in practice that you still get static or. Because first of all you're gonna notice it, right?

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

Like it's pretty notable when static happens. So even if you had a lotion on, but the lotion has seeped into your lower levels of your skin and so now the surface again isn't really protected from the lotion any longer.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

Then you're gonna get zapped one time and you're like, ah, this lotion didn't work. But you know, it was on your skin two hours ago. So I think something like a silicone that can stay on the surface of your skin. So you have these chemical protectant ones. I think that would probably work pretty well.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. I think it's interesting that this product exists already, that someone said, you know what, this is a problem. But it's specifically for people in the electronics manufacturing industry. Again, where you mentioned, like, you don't really want some of the occlusives that you would use around. But I guess like if you're just, you know, walking around your house or maybe at work, you could use a more occlusive cream. Like even Working Hands is a great hand lotion. I don't know if you've ever tried it. It's really rich, really occlusive, but not like super duper greasy. So maybe something like that could work.

[Perry Romanowski]

So I think that's, that's my thoughts on that one.

[Valerie George]

Well, hopefully that helps.

[Perry Romanowski]

We've got an audio question, Valerie. This one comes to us from Hillary. Real voice from Hillary. There you go. Let me play that now.

[Hillary]

Hi, beauty brains. I have a question about kids sunscreen or baby sunscreen? You mentioned previously that the main difference is that the mineral sunscreens have been less likely to cause skin irritation and that's why they're recommended for infants and children. My question is about the sunscreen I put on myself. While my 4 month old baby likes to chew on me, he often is mouthing my shoulders and arms and I have a large arm tattoo that I often protect with sunscreen. Should I be avoiding certain ingredients in my sunscreens or picking a particular style of sunscreen? If I know that he's going to be possibly ingesting some of it, I know the answer is probably to not let him ingest it. But you try telling a four month old that they're not allowed to mouth their mom. It's a little difficult. So if you could give me some guidance on either what to look for in my sunscreens or what to avoid in my sunscreens, I would appreciate it. Thanks so much.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, thanks for that, Hilary. So a baby problem here, and it is an interesting question.

[Valerie George]

For sure it is. Because as adults we use products we're typically hopefully not sucking on our own fingers, chewing on our arms or feet. Hopefully not. Yeah. So I'm not sure how much ingestion plays a role in products that aren't intended for the lips, at least when a product is evaluated for safety. But products like baby products or even Animal products are very different because, for example, like a dog shampoo, a dog licks their fur. Right. So you would hope that anything left behind on the fur is not toxic to them, even though pet products aren't really regulated. But same with baby products. Right. Like babies are putting hands in their mouth or, you know, sucking on other things. So it's important that whatever is able to enter a baby's mouth is reviewed for toxicology. So again, first of all, we are not toxicologists. I just want to get that out there. We just have experience working with them and, and kind of thinking about the thought processes here. But my thought process would be if you have like, let's say a copper tone sunscreen or something meant for adults, it might not be necessarily evaluated for ingestion. Or maybe they, they make that a consideration, like if a little bit got in your mouth, but your baby is not wearing the adult sunscreen. Right. They're taking your adult sunscreen and so sucking on the skin that has it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, exactly.

[Valerie George]

So if, if you were concerned, because I don't really know if this is an issue, you know, I probably would recommend a baby sunscreen. Maybe you switch to a baby sunscreen that uses a different sunscreen filter. Usually it's titanium dioxide, zinc oxide, which are, by the way, used in the food and supplement industry anyway. So if you ingest a little, it's not a big deal. What do you think?

[Perry Romanowski]

Those are already considered great, Ross, by the fda, which is generally regarded as safe. Yeah.

[Valerie George]

Which means you can ingest a little bit of them. So. And then hopefully the sunscreens are also using, you know, ingestion safe oils and preservatives, you know, lip safe preservatives. Hopefully that's the case. So. Yeah, I don't really know the answer, but my guess is it's probably not a big deal. But if you were concerned, switch to those physical sunscreen types.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. And I just think of the amounts that we're talking about here, the amount of exposure and how much of any chemical is on a single spot where the kid is going to be sucking for any amount of time. It's going to be very low. It's not like they're drinking a whole bottle of sunscreen, having some residual, having some residual amount that they ingest. I haven't seen evidence that that's dangerous. Although admittedly, like you said, we're not toxicologists and I don't think anybody's really evaluated it specifically on the babies ingesting something like that.

[Valerie George]

I've had tox reviews done on sunscreens for Europe. And I don't think that's a criteria like does this have the opportunity to be ingested because another person ate it off the skin? But you know, again, maybe there is some kind of criteria if it were that harmful, you know, I think they probably would would have that as a category.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. But if you want to feel better about it, you know, baby sunscreens are still evaluated for SPF values and such like that. And so you might want to just stick to those.

[Valerie George]

Well, our next question comes to us from Sumia. Hi beauty brains. It's Sumia. I challenge you to say it right. And we don't know if we did because it's not.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sounds right to me.

[Valerie George]

I recently discovered your podcast and I'm in heaven. I listen to it all day long and talk about it all the time. People start calling me obsessed over you and I am indeed obsessed about science and learning new things. My question is what are your favorite really performing conditioning ingredients for dry hair? I mean the ones that leave your hair nice after drying. After 30 years of existence, I still can't manage my type 2A or 3C hair with dry split ends. Hair loss, no volume at the base, puffy, not straight nor curly nor wavy. Please help. What ingredients should I look for and what products and routines do you recommend? Thanks a lot. Best regards, Soumya.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, this is a good question. Hair conditioning. So I think the first routine is to be the specific shampoo you use. Doesn't matter that much. But if you use a conditioner afterwards, if you use a shampoo and that's it, then yeah, it's, it's gonna make differences. But once you use a shampoo and then a conditioner, pretty much all the effects you're gonna get on your hair is what from the conditioner? That's just my opinion. So the number one thing you can do in your routine is yes, always use a rinse off conditioner.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. The other thing is I really like the ingredients that most people get worried about in hair products like silicones. I just think they are really great for hair because they're highly functionalized, meaning they take a basic silicone and they give it specific functions with chemistry to do certain things on the hair. And without that you don't really get a lot of high performance because these materials aren't effective at sticking to the hair and doing the job that they have. So for example, I really love Ammo dimethicone. It's a positively charged silicone. It's really Great at giving hair color protection because it sticks to the hair and stops color from leaving the hair fiber. But it also helps reduce the appearance of puffiness or frizziness. It helps make hair feel really soft. It does last over a couple washes. But you know, if you want to take it off the hair, you just use a shampoo without amodimethicone and you kind of start over. It's not a big deal.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, some people don't like that necessarily because they think it like builds up on your hair or weighs down the hair. And if you're one of those people, just straight up dimethicone, it can have similar effects but is a bit easier to wash out because it doesn't have that extra functionalization that makes it stick on the hair more.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, but I don't think you get the long term effects, which I think is is what Sumia sounds like she needs. If she has, you know, hair that's puffy, it's just kind of there. Dry split ends. The other thing I would recommend is maybe putting conditioner on the middle of your hair down to the ends. First one, it focuses there. I actually can't believe, you know, I pretty much only formulate hair care and hair color products. When I talk to people about product application. I can't believe how many of them put conditioner in their hand and then just slap it where their skull is and then start to distribute it down the hair.

[Perry Romanowski]

And that's where most charged. But you know, that's where most of.

[Valerie George]

The conditioner gets concentrated conditioner is for your hair, it's not for your scalp. Right. So I think try putting a really rich conditioner on the middle to ends of the hair. Something maybe that has behem. Trimonium chloride, diacetyl, dimonium chloride, steramidylpropyl, dimethylamine. Yeah. If the former two are too rich for you. Cerametopropropropyl, dimethylamine, behentriummonium ethosulfate and then actually shampoo your hair. This is going to do two things. One, it's going to make sure you aren't depositing too much stuff at your base. You said you have no volume at your scalp. So this is going to prevent too much heavier things from being applied there. And it's going to condition where it needs to be conditioned. And it's going to prevent the shampoo for making your split ends and dry hair even drier because it sounds like you need oil. And then once you get out of the shower you could try like a lightweight leave in detangling spray that's going to deposit some more nourishment to the ends of your hair to make sure that your split ends don't get worse. You don't have friction when you put a comb or brush through your hair. That's what I would start with.

[Perry Romanowski]

You know, I got into this discussion online about split ends and the question was, do split ends move up the hair shaft or not? I'm kind of of the opinion that, yes, they're going to move up the hair shaft.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

But I could see, like, if the cuticle is in good enough shape that there might get to be a point where it stops. It doesn't continue to split. Yeah, yeah.

[Valerie George]

And it would break off.

[Perry Romanowski]

Interesting.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. I, you know, I looked at a lot of ends of hair. I developed a hair and scalp analysis device in my prior life, and we imaged several thousand scalps ends to look at end creation. And we rarely ever saw a split end that was more than an inch long. You said the hair typically like breaks off, I think.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. It probably just gets to a one point on the cuticle and then it just snaps off. Yeah.

[Valerie George]

But you know, it's really great for healing split ends temporarily. Oil. Any oil.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. It'll sort of glue it together for.

[Valerie George]

For hours, you know, not days, but, you know, so maybe even try putting some oil on your ends only.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, there you go. Ultimately, you have to cut them out.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Unfortunately.

[Perry Romanowski]

Here's our next question. Comes from Yihan. Hi, beauty brains. Thank you for your hard work. My question is, can I consistently use body wash as a substitute for hand soap? How is hand soap different from body wash? Love from Singapore. You know what the capital of Singapore is?

[Valerie George]

You know, I don't have a memory castle for this one.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's Singapore.

[Valerie George]

Oh, it is, yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

Singapore.

[Valerie George]

Singapore. Oh, interesting. All right, so we don't know where in Singapore Yihan is from, just.

[Perry Romanowski]

But from the capital.

[Valerie George]

Unless it's like New York. When you say, like, oh, hi, from New York, like, everyone knows that means New York City.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, Right. I remember watching there was a kid TV show that was based in New York, and they're always like, new York, New York. And I'm like, why do they keep saying it twice?

[Valerie George]

Oh, my goodness.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, there you go. All right, let's get body wash and hand soap. What do you think?

[Valerie George]

Well, I definitely think they are interchangeable hand soap and body wash. That is because they are both liquid cleansers that are designed for skin. And, you know, if if you told me to go formulate one on the bench, I would probably pick up the same sets of ingredients and I would do stuff with them. Now, I may leave some stuff out of the hand soap and put it in the body wash, because typically with a body wash, you want to feel soft, nourished, conditioned. You don't want to feel, like, super stripped. But if you did that in a hand soap, you might be like, ooh, you know, I have all this stuff on my hands after using it. But as far as, like, the cleansing ability goes, totally fine.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. It just requires a lot less, like, your body requires a lot less intense washing than your hands because, you know, your hands touch stuff, you're getting at stuff. There's. You could see dirt. So you'd need, you know, a bit more surfactant in your formulation. And you don't, like. You say you don't want your hands necessarily to feel the same way your body does. But as far as formulating go, you know, you use the same ingredients.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. Now, where you want to be careful is shampoo for hand soap. And this is because shampoos may contain conditioning ingredients.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure.

[Valerie George]

To help, you know, manage the feel of hair during washing. And those will transfer to your skin because, you know, skin and hair both, you know, get attracted by cationic materials. And so if you have a cationic material in your shampoo, it's going to stick to your hands, and it might be a weird feel. Some people don't mind it. I personally don't like it. Also, there may be ingredients in the shampoo that aren't intended for skin. And so you want to be careful. Also, you know, one time I sent my brother tons of product for my old jaw. I mean, we had so much product, we didn't know what to do with it.

[Perry Romanowski]

Sure.

[Valerie George]

And so I sent him a bunch of a clear shampoo that was like, you know, your basic BOB shampoo. It was like the most simple. You could get a lemon fragrance. And I sent him so much of it, I said, you could also use this as body wash and hand soap if you wanted to. Or we even used it as dish soap in the lab, to be honest.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

But another time I sent him a tea tree shampoo.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh.

[Valerie George]

And he thought, bing, bang, boom, I could also use this as body wash. And he put it in his private parts and called me and said, you have no clue what you're doing. You know, I just basically had everything burned off. And I was like, no, I meant, like, clear shampoos, you know, I didn't mean, you know, like a very minty tea tree shampoo on your, you know, what have you, so.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I guess your brother probably doesn't ask you for products anymore.

[Valerie George]

He does not. They're not welcome.

[Perry Romanowski]

There you go. Well, obviously you've been in the industry a lot longer since then, so, you know, even. You obviously know something.

[Valerie George]

Oh, goodness. Well, it's not a mistake to make everybody.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's not. Looks like we got time for one more question. This comes to us from Grace. Hi, Perry and Val. I'm trying to understand the efficacy of retinols versus Retin A or tretinoin. My understanding is that retinoic acid is quicker, more powerful because it is already in a chemical form required by the skin to begin helping with cell turnover and collagen production. On the other hand, retinol requires some oxidation process, so the results are slower to process and apply. Pure. But my question is, are the lasting results from each of these products comparable? I had been using a retinol product, Chennai Darden Retinol reform, but recently switched to 0.1% tretinoin. Obagi.

[Valerie George]

Obagi.

[Perry Romanowski]

I'm in the. Oh, Obagi. It's French, I guess. I'm in the beginning titration phase for the Retin A and my skin is expectedly a little irritated. Though I'm using the correct amount. I know this is a common experience for the first 12 weeks. Anyway, is it worth it for me to stick it out on the Retin A assuming my skin acclimates because the results are longer lasting, more permanent, or would my retinol results be the same in the end? Thank you so much and I appreciate you answering the question. All right. That is true that retin, retinoic acid or the retinol derivatives of retinoids generally have to be converted to retinoic acid for them to have the retinol effects.

[Valerie George]

That's true. When we talk about retinoids, by the way, we're talking about basically any molecule that would include retinoic acid, whether it's the pure retinoic acid, Retin A, tretinoin, retinaldehyde, retinol, retinyl esters. You know, there's an order of decreasing or increasing efficacy. And the more efficacious something is, the less gentle it is. By the way, usually, you know, that's the case. I think retinol, Retin A, the end results are probably comparable. It's how you get there. Because, for example, if you use Retin A, you're using probably A tinier amount than you would of a retinol because the retinol has to go through a conversion process. Not all of it converts into retinoic acid. Same thing with retinaldehyde. So retinol is actually two steps away from retinoic acid. Retinaldehyde is one step away from retinoic acid. But again, they have very huge irritation.

[Perry Romanowski]

Potentials for sure, which is why there are the derivatives. So as far as them working, the prescription stuff has been clinically proven to the satisfaction of authorities that yes, this actually does have some impact. After that, these derivatives, you know, the evidence is less. And so if you're wondering should I stick with my prescription product versus if I could get the same results with my less irritating over the counter product, I would stay with the prescription one.

[Valerie George]

The prescription one for sure. That's the most pure form. It's going in the skin. You know, if the decision were between retinol or retinaldehyde, I probably would say tomato, tomato. But the, the retinoic acid pure form is the purest form. But again, you know, if your skin isn't able to tolerate it, you know, I would switch to something more gentle.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. There's this 12 weeks of acclimation. I mean that just 12 weeks of your skin hurting and then you finally just get used to it or something. But I don't know if that's worth it to people, you know, then keep doing it. But I don't think that you're going to get comparable results. Exactly. Comparable results using a derivative versus using the retin A, you know, the tretinoin.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, directly. Yeah. The tretinoin is retinoic acid pures in a field of its own. But as far as the derivatives go, the only derivative I would stay away from are the retinyl esters. And this is because they actually have terrible conversion in the skin. And like a very.

[Perry Romanowski]

That's like a retinol palmitate or something.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. Like very little gets converted. Whereas retinol actually has. And retinaldehyde actually have a pretty high conversion rate in the skin. So retinyl esters avoid. It's probably not a good use of money if you're buying a product that is hanging its hat on that. But retinol, retinaldehyde pretty good if you wanted to give up your tretinoin.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. And as far as long lasting, these things last as long as you continue to use them. So they're not.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, skin turns over. Right. Pretty. You know, I don't want to say pretty quickly, but I think it's like, you know, you have about a month for your skin to turn over. So, you know, once you stop using it, you're done.

[Perry Romanowski]

Speaking of turnover, do you hear that music turning over?

[Valerie George]

That's all we have time for. Everyone, thanks for listening.

[Perry Romanowski]

Hey, if you get a chance, can you go over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen Spotify? I guess Buzzsprout has stuff, too. You can leave us a review there. That's gonna help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer.

[Valerie George]

Speaking of questions, we love other voices on the show. If you have a question, record it on your smartphone and send it to via email, thebeautybrainsmail.com the Beauty Brains are also on Patreon.

[Perry Romanowski]

You might notice that there were no commercials in this beauty podcast. And, you know, we're committed to that as long as we get support on Patreon. So if you like that, we don't have commercials and we can talk about whatever we want without fear of financial repercussions. You can go over to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe at any level. Your questions get a higher priority than everyone else's and you get a transcript of every show.

[Valerie George]

Also, follow us on our various social media accounts. On Instagram, we're at The Beauty Brains 2018 on X, we're at the Beauty Brains. On Blue sky, we're at the Beauty Brains. And we have a Facebook page and a Tik tok.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, I got us on Blue Sky.

[Valerie George]

You just got to squat on the spot.

[Perry Romanowski]

I squat on the spot. You know, I tried to do Blue sky on my phone, but it's asking me for my password and. And I can't figure out where to. Yeah, because I did on the. Why did they make it so complicated?

[Valerie George]

You know, I just. I'm not into new platforms. I am where I am. It is what it is.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. Yep, I. I am where I am. Well, we're glad that you're here with us.

[Valerie George]

All right, well, thanks again for listening, everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[Perry Romanowski]

Thanks, everyone.

[Valerie George]

Kittens.

[Sumia]

Advisor have a special day with catching toys they roll around all sp in light in the magic of the backyard everything feels right Car bosses, you can't make toys. The fort is my peace and joy no more rounds, no more fights Just want to leave me my good even buffers always tough can't resist the siren call of Captain Blank's fucking order can't be missed falling on the wood deck they need to joins the fun? Fears cast aside even next the heat visor? Old grudges decide carbon fossils, you can't make toys the forged? It's finding peace and joy? No more crowds, no more fights? Just when a thought appears Sight to behold? They hop in and curl up as the stories are told? Go in and twist until they're out like a light in the tranquil world? The porch kitty's flying aboard buses and catnip doors? The porch kitty fine with peace and joy? No more crowds, no more fights. Just come on, Feel at the moment, Feel at the light? The fun can bend their names? Peace and tranquility forever race in the world of Or? K Where their spirits are free? Couple joys Cat and toys perfect harmony.