Episode 384 - Nanoplasty, talc, and heat oh my

Summary

The Beauty Brains: Episode 384 - Nanoplasty, Talc, and Heat Oh My

Release Date: January 8, 2025

In the first episode of the new year, hosts Perry Romanowski and Valerie George delve into a variety of pressing beauty topics, blending insightful discussions with engaging segments and expert answers to listener questions. This episode navigates through the complexities of cosmetic chemistry, industry regulations, environmental concerns, and consumer advice, all delivered with the hosts' characteristic wit and scientific rigor.

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Industry News: Talc Regulations and Walmart's Emission Goals

FDA’s New Testing Standards for Talc in Cosmetics

At [07:21], Perry introduces a significant development in cosmetic regulation: the FDA's proposal for standardized testing methods to detect asbestos in talc-containing products. Historically, talc and asbestos have been naturally co-located, posing potential safety risks. While cosmetic-grade talc undergoes asbestos filtration, the absence of a standardized testing method had left uncertainties regarding its safety. Valerie emphasizes the importance of this regulation, citing insights from industry veteran David Steinberg, who highlighted that concerns about asbestos in talc date back to the early 1970s.

Valerie George:
"By the early 70s, a paper was published that the amount of asbestos in talc can be problematic. The FDA requested better methods to determine levels in asbestos, and in the 80s, they adopted a method that was used for a long time, though not the best." [07:51]

The standardized testing is anticipated to enhance the safety of talc used in cosmetics across the industry. Valerie adds that with ongoing lawsuits and increasing restrictions in regions like the EU, companies are likely to distance themselves from talc ingredients altogether.

Walmart’s Struggle with Emission Targets

Later in the news segment at [09:21], Valerie and Perry discuss Walmart’s inability to meet its ambitious greenhouse gas emission reduction goals. Valerie points out that Walmart failed to reduce emissions by 35% by 2025 and 65% by 2030, with emissions even rising by 3.9% in 2023.

Valerie George:
"This is proof that you can't grow your business and grow your sales and simultaneously reduce your emissions. It's very difficult to do." [10:06]

They critique the feasibility of large corporations achieving self-imposed environmental targets without governmental mandates, suggesting that without external pressure, such pledges often remain unmet.

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Celebrity Beauty Lines: A Fun Challenge

At [12:31], Perry and Valerie engage in a playful game testing their knowledge of celebrity beauty lines. They present five female and five male celebrities, challenging each other to identify who does not have their own beauty or personal care line.

Women Celebrities:

1. Lady Gaga
2. Anne Hathaway
3. Jessica Simpson
4. Ariana Grande
5. Miranda Kerr

Valerie correctly identifies Anne Hathaway as the one without her own line.

Men Celebrities:

1. Harry Styles
2. Pharrell Williams
3. Jason Momoa
4. Jared Leto
5. John Legend

Valerie correctly points out that Jason Momoa does not have a beauty line, while the others each have their own brands, such as Harry Styles' "Pleasing" and Pharrell Williams' "Human Race."

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Listener Questions: Expert Answers from Perry and Valerie

1. PFAS in Self-Fizzing Products

Question from Sean [16:28]:
“Is it okay to use self tanner under your eyes and on your lips are PFAs, the ingredient that causes products to sell foam...”

Discussion:

Valerie and Perry break down the complexities of PFAS (perfluoroalkyl substances) in cosmetics, explaining that while not all self-foaming products contain PFAS, many do utilize compounds like methyl perfluorobutyl ether to achieve the bubbling effect. These substances are persistent in the environment, earning them the label "forever chemicals," though no direct health risks have been identified when used on the skin.

Valerie George:
"If you're using a product that self fizzes and bubbles on the skin, it's probably using a perfluorinated material that meets the legal criteria for a PFAS." [19:17]

They recommend avoiding such products due to environmental concerns and suggest seeking alternatives that do not rely on PFAS for their foaming properties.

2. Safety of Using Self-Tanner Around Eyes and Lips

Question from Eliza [21:24]:
“I keep seeing TikTok creators put self tanner around their lips and eyes for long-lasting contour. Is this safe?”

Discussion:

Valerie and Perry caution against applying self-tanners near sensitive areas like the eyes and lips. DHA (dihydroxyacetone), a common self-tanning agent, is approved for external use but can irritate mucous membranes and may pose risks if inhaled or applied near delicate skin areas.

Perry Romanowski:
"The FDA advises against using self tanners around those areas unless the product specifically says you can use it there." [22:10]

They emphasize sticking to professional guidelines and avoiding DIY hacks that could lead to unintended harm.

3. Heat Protection Claims in Hair Products

Question from Janie [25:57]:
“How can products like Olaplex claim heat protection up to 450°F, and why does Garnier’s smoothing oil sometimes feel tacky?”

Discussion:

Valerie explains that silicones like dimethicone form a protective film on hair strands, acting as heat sinks to absorb and evenly distribute heat, thereby preventing damage. The 450°F claim stems from standardized testing where treated hair undergoes high-temperature exposure to demonstrate reduced breakage.

Valerie George:
"Silicones form a film down the hair fiber, acting as a heat sink and distributing heat more evenly." [25:47]

Regarding the inconsistency with Garnier’s smoothing oil, Valerie attributes it to the presence of cyclic silicones that evaporate, potentially leading to frizz if not evenly applied or if environmental factors like humidity affect the hair post-application.

4. Are Pricier Skincare Products Worth It?

Question from Stacy [31:30]:
“Are pricier products really more effective and worth the cost, or will my lower-cost items still get the job done?”

Discussion:

Valerie and Perry advocate for a straightforward skincare routine over expensive products. They highlight that effective skincare hinges on consistency and basic practices such as cleansing, exfoliating, moisturizing, and applying SPF. High-end products are not inherently superior; performance depends on the ingredients and formulation rather than the price tag.

Valerie George:
"The most important thing you can do for yourself is to get a routine. You can play around and add a serum if you want, but a basic routine is 80% of the battle." [35:52]

They reassure listeners that drugstore products can be just as effective as their high-end counterparts when chosen thoughtfully.

5. Understanding Brazilian Nanoplasty and Its Effects

Question from Valerio [35:57]:
“Can you tell me about Brazilian nanoplasty, its chemistry, the damage it creates on hair, and how it works?”

Discussion:

Valerie and Perry approach Brazilian nanoplasty with skepticism, suggesting that despite marketing claims of using "natural" ingredients like amino acids and collagen, the process likely involves significant heat application that can damage hair fibers. They question the scientific validity of the claims, pointing out that terms like "nano" are often used as marketing jargon without substantial backing.

Valerie George:
"The use of the word 'nano' implies nanotechnology or nanomaterials, which are hard to justify in cosmetic products without rigorous toxicological review." [38:15]

They caution consumers about the potential for hair damage and advise thorough research before undergoing such treatments.

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Conclusion: Be Brainy About Your Beauty

In wrapping up, Perry and Valerie encourage listeners to stay informed and critical of beauty product claims. They emphasize the importance of scientific understanding in making informed beauty choices and invite listeners to support the podcast through Patreon for ad-free content and exclusive perks.

Valerie George:
"Remember, be brainy about your beauty." [43:08]

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Notable Quotes

• Valerie George on Talc and Asbestos:
  "By the early 70s, a paper was published that the amount of asbestos in talc can be problematic." [07:51]

• Valerie George on PFAS in Cosmetics:
  "If you're using a product that self fizzes and bubbles on the skin, it's probably using a perfluorinated material that meets the legal criteria for a PFAS." [19:17]

• Perry Romanowski on Heat Protection:
  "The FDA advises against using self tanners around those areas unless the product specifically says you can use it there." [22:10]

• Valerie George on Skincare Routines:
  "The most important thing you can do for yourself is to get a routine. You can play around and add a serum if you want, but a basic routine is 80% of the battle." [35:52]

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Final Thoughts

Episode 384 of The Beauty Brains offers a comprehensive exploration of current beauty industry issues, from regulatory changes and environmental impacts to practical skincare advice and skepticism of trendy treatments. Perry and Valerie's expert analysis empowers listeners to make educated decisions about the products they use, reinforcing the podcast's mission to bridge the gap between cosmetic science and consumer awareness.

For more insights and to support the show, listeners are encouraged to visit patreon.com/thebeautybrains and follow the hosts on their social media platforms.

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Be brainy about your beauty!

Transcript

[Perry Romanowski]

Hi, I'm Perry, and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 384, our first one for the new year. Hi, I'm your host, Perry Romanowski, and with me today is Valerie George. Hello, Valerie.

[Valerie George]

Hi, Perry.

[Perry Romanowski]

Valerie, we've already got a ton of questions, and those are going when we're going to cover them on today's show, including, is it okay to use self tanner under your eyes and on your lips are pfas, the ingredient that causes products to sell foam. How can silicone protect hair to temperatures up to 450 degrees? Are certain types of products worth getting the more expensive version? And what is the chemistry of nanoplasty? But first, chit chat. Valerie, it's a whole new year. Did you ring in the new year? Very crazily, I did.

[Valerie George]

It was called sleeping. I didn't even make it until midnight. I said, I'm so tired, the New Year's gonna happen with or without me. And so I went to bed probably around 9:30.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow. And it turned out the new year did happen, huh?

[Valerie George]

You know it did. It's pretty crazy. And I got a great night of sleep. What about you? How was your party?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well. Well, first of all, did you get the pizza rolls, the totinos?

[Valerie George]

I did. And I told Mr. Cosmetic Chemist about our conversation. And as he was preparing them for me, he said, you know what? They have changed. And unfortunately, he bought 100 pack, which is. It's just way too many pizza rolls. So, like, I've had my pizza roll fill for the year and I probably won't have any until next New Year's.

[Perry Romanowski]

I guess you could save the ones you've got until next year. Just freeze them. Right? They're well preserved.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, we had a little gathering at my place and we had a, you know, a good number of people that came over. But most importantly, we had the Scissors, Paper, Rock tournament.

[Valerie George]

Okay. Or known as Rock, Paper, Scissors in other parts of the world. How did it go?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, it was a big hit. We had brackets, we had seating. And it came down to the big finale. I finished in the top four, but I kind of got it by the first round. People objected to that, but, you know, it's just the number of people.

[Valerie George]

Well, I think people figured out your tactics. You got out rocked.

[Perry Romanowski]

I think I got out. I definitely got out rocked because I threw paper too much or no, I threw scissors too much. That's what happened.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Scissors is, like. It's not a popular. It's not a popular one. I feel like most people do rocker paper.

[Perry Romanowski]

That is true. Now, you know, I did add a little something. The tournament wasn't just for the pride of winning. The tournament also featured the winner got a chance to win $250,000.

[Valerie George]

Okay.

[Perry Romanowski]

Because I went to. Got a scratch lottery, and it says on the front, you can win $250,000.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my God. That is such a dupe.

[Perry Romanowski]

What? No.

[Valerie George]

Do you see my response? I was, like, trying to think, like, how would Perry have pulled this off?

[Perry Romanowski]

It says it right on the thing. Win up to $250,000. And so if I happen to buy the scratch lotto ticket. You won $250,000.

[Valerie George]

All right. Did the person do the scratchy in front of you guys?

[Perry Romanowski]

They did, and they won $10. So not quite $250,000 promised. But, you know, it reminds me of those things where they say, oh, you can throw. You get a hole in one, you win a car. Like, nobody ever wins a car, right?

[Valerie George]

Well, there. There is. You know, I. I think it just depends how lucky you are. I used to have someone who worked in regulatory for me, and they were just, like, a really lucky person. And they were always winning, like, cruises and TVs. And one time he was walking out of a casino, and he had entered in a drawing, and he won, like, $5,000. They called his name over the loudspeaker. Yeah. And I just don't have that kind of luck. My papa sends me scratchies all the time. I'm his scratching buddy. And, you know, I just. He always wins. I never win. I'm just not lucky like that.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, that is true. You know, we used to do. We used to do scratches in the lab. We would pool our money together. A dollar in a lab, and we would all scratch, and we never. We would always win enough money to buy new lottery tickets the next week. But that was a whole. It was a whole group bonding thing for our lab.

[Valerie George]

I think that's really fun. That's way better than when, like, Powerball's gonna hit and everyone in the company's buying tickets. It's like, there's no way we're gonna even win. And even if people won, like, $25, where does that money go? You know, I'm gonna distribute it back to the employees. Yeah, right, right.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's a terrible idea for a company anyway, because everybody hits it, and then they want to quit their jobs.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Anyone who says if they would win like $100 million, they're not going to quit their job. I just think they're making a big mistake.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, they're diluting themselves.

[Valerie George]

I'm not saying you don't have to work. I'm just saying, like, you could be a philanthropist, you could spend your time volunteering. You don't have to work and be stressed out. Life's too short.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, exactly. And you know, give the job to somebody who needs a job.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

Don't take somebody job like that. All right, let's move on to some of the news. Well, Valerie, I saw that the FDA has proposed some new testing for talc containing products. If you recall, Johnson and Johnson has been in the news about talc, and essentially they stopped using talc, at least in the US and their baby powder products. And talc is still used a fair amount in powdered makeup as an extender. But it turns out that the U.S. but before this, the U.S. fDA didn't have an established testing method for determining whether the source of talc had asbestos in it. You see talc and asbestos in nature, they kind of occur together. It's a mind ingredient. It occurred together. And so most sources that are used for cosmetics that you filter out the asbestos, so it's safe. However, there wasn't a standardized testing for that. And so now the FDA has created this standardized testing rule. So any talc that is going to be used in cosmetics is going to have to have gone through this testing. So the entire industry uses the same test. So this standardization should, in theory, make this the talc supply safer. Although I suppose talc has already become such a scary ingredient that most companies are going to avoid it anyway.

[Valerie George]

And it's also becoming restricted in the eu. So basically what happened, Perry, is. And by the way, this information came to me from an industry legend, David Steinberg. He told me that basically the asbestos issue in talc had been a problem in quite a bit of time. And he said in the early 70s. And by the way, he was around in the early 70s, so he knows this information, whereas I was not around in the 70s, so. Or even you weren't working in the industry in the 70s. Right.

[Perry Romanowski]

So no, but I was watching the.

[Valerie George]

Brady Bunch and they weren't talking about asbestos and talc.

[Perry Romanowski]

They were not.

[Valerie George]

But he said by the early 70s, a paper was published that the amount of asbestos in talc can be problematic. And so in the 70s, the FDA requested better methods to determine levels in asbestos and in the 80s, essentially, they adopted a method that they found to be pretty good at the time. One company said, hey, this method really works. And the FDA said, this method is really great. And that's the method that was used for a long time. But it wasn't really a super great method because technology has advanced. But the test methods, in terms of what the FDA said, this is acceptable, didn't go with it.

[Perry Romanowski]

The FDA moves kind of slowly when it comes to changing any kind of.

[Valerie George]

Rules, and they work. And I don't even think it was a rule per se, but I think, you know, they work on the hottest issues, and for a while it wasn't an issue. Right. And so I think it's appropriate to go back and review stuff. So I don't have a problem with what the FDA did or how long they took.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

But now with Mocra and Talc being such a hot issue, with all the lawsuits going on, they said, you know what? We should update this method. And that's what they did.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. And so if people use Talc in cosmetics, you can be assured it's going to be even more likely not to have asbestos than before, since we have this new testing.

[Valerie George]

Well, that's great news. There was one other article. You sure got a kick out of this. Walmart won't hit its emission goals by 2030.

[Perry Romanowski]

Come on, get out of here. What?

[Valerie George]

Isn't it crazy that they can't meet a climate goal five years from now?

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. Well. And they already know that they're not. But I guess they're not on track. So what was their goal? I mean, they were going to lead the world in saving us from climate change.

[Valerie George]

Oh, gosh, they. I think what they did is they made too big of a pledge. They basically said they cut greenhouse gas emissions by 35% in 2025.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, that's this year.

[Valerie George]

By 65% in 2030. And it's not even on track to deliver either. Promise.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, okay. So they're not going to be cut by 35% in 2025, and they're definitely not going to hit that 23rd. I think they said they wanted to get to zero by 2040, which I guess they could get there if they went bankrupt and closed up shop. Right.

[Valerie George]

Well, the challenge is they're, you know, I'm like, okay, well, how close are they? They actually didn't even reduce their emissions. Their emissions rose by 3.9% in 2023, according to a report published in Financial Times. And I think this is proof that you can't grow your business and grow your sales and simultaneously reduce your emissions. It's very difficult to do. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's improbable.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, and you've got all these companies making all these long term promises, mostly for, I would say probably the marketing angle. They're like, oh, look, we're, we care about the environment, so feel free to shop with us. When maybe they don't even really have a plan or an intention of doing anything about it. I mean, if they were trying to cut by 35% and they're up by 3.9%, they're not trying very hard.

[Valerie George]

It's an uphill battle, that's for sure.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, I think this also shows that you can't take companies seriously when they're saying these things. And the only way this stuff is going to happen is if it's a government mandate. Like if the government said, oh, you have to cut by 35%, well, then they'll do it. But if the company is just saying, oh, we'll do this ourselves, they're like, yeah, you probably won't do it because it's going to cost money.

[Valerie George]

And when the shareholders look at sales maybe being flat, small increase, and then they look at the bottom line and the lack of profitability or lower profitability, that kind of stuff is the first thing to go out the window.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, it is, unfortunately. So sorry, kids, in the future, it was Walmart's fault that the climate didn't get fixed. Oh, you know, I thought of this game. You know, we talk a lot about celebrity beauty products. And when we were going through last time, when we were guessing who are predicting who our celebrity was going to launch a line, I had to look up, like, which celebrities already had lines. And so I thought it'd be a fun quick game here. I'm gonna name five celebrities, five males, five females, and you're gonna have to tell me which one does not have their own line.

[Valerie George]

Okay, so. Sounds fun.

[Perry Romanowski]

See how we do. We'll start with the women. All right, I'm gonna give you five names. You tell me which one doesn't have their own line.

[Valerie George]

Okay.

[Perry Romanowski]

Lady Gaga, Anne Hathaway, Jessica Simpson.

[Valerie George]

Okay.

[Perry Romanowski]

Ariana Grande and Miranda Kerr.

[Valerie George]

Now these are cosmetics lines, correct?

[Perry Romanowski]

I'd say a beauty product line or personal care.

[Valerie George]

Okay. Okay. I don't believe Anne Hathaway has a line.

[Perry Romanowski]

And you are correct, she does not have a line.

[Valerie George]

Well, I knew Lady Gaga had House Beauty distributed through Amazon when She initially launched it. Yep. And Miranda Kerr, I feel like, has kind of like a. It's called. I don't remember what.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's Cora Organics.

[Valerie George]

That's right. That's right. I remember. I saw the product in my brain and I wasn't sure about Grande has. I, I. That. I don't know. I thought it was a perfume.

[Perry Romanowski]

She has REM Beauty.

[Valerie George]

Oh, that's her. That's right. That is hers. Okay. And what was.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, Jessica Simpson was the other one. You know what her line is? Jessica Simpson Beauty.

[Valerie George]

I didn't know that. I knew she had the clothing line at some point in time, but she.

[Perry Romanowski]

Has a beauty line. All right, how about this one? We're gonna do male celebrities. All right, all right, I'm gonna give you five names. One of them does not have a line.

[Valerie George]

Okay.

[Perry Romanowski]

The other ones do. All right. Harry Styles, Pharrell Williams, Jason Moma, Jared Leto, or John Legend.

[Valerie George]

Oh, it's down to Jason Momoa or Jared Leto. And I feel like Jared did come out with one, but I also feel like Jason Momoa came out with one. So I'm really torn. I'm going to say Jason Momoa, and you are correct.

[Perry Romanowski]

He does not have a line.

[Valerie George]

But he should. That should have been my celebrity pick for 2025.

[Perry Romanowski]

Maybe he will. So Harry Styles has a brand called Pleasing. It's a gender neutral aesthetics. Pharrell Williams has one called Human Race.

[Valerie George]

Yep.

[Perry Romanowski]

Skincare line. Jared Leto has one called 29 palms.

[Valerie George]

That's right. I couldn't remember if that was him or Leonardo DiCaprio for some reason in my brain or I'm sorry, Jake Gyllenhaal, but I'm so glad I saw that the picture in my brain.

[Perry Romanowski]

And John legend has his loved 01. So there you go. Maybe we'll look. Maybe Jason. Now you call him Jason Momoa. Isn't it Moma.

[Valerie George]

I have no idea.

[Perry Romanowski]

The Aquaman guy. Yeah. All right.

[Valerie George]

I don't really know what his name is, but I just know that he's a celebrity crush for a lot of.

[Perry Romanowski]

Women and he does not yet have a beauty line. All right, how about we move on to our question? All right, our first question comes from Sean, who is a patron. And incidentally, if you appreciate that we don't have any ads and we can say whatever we want about brands, that's only because we're supported by patrons. So if you want to support the show and keep us ad free, go to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe at any level. All right, here's Sean's question. He says, hi, Perry and Valerie, it's been a while. I have a question about products that might contain PFAs. PFAs? I was told some time ago that any self fizzing product that bubbles or foams when applied to the skin are pfas ingredients such as methyl perfluorobutyl ether. The FDA has labeled this material as a pfas. Could you clarify this? Thank you. All right. Pfas, the perfluoroalkyl ether substances, huh?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, Perfluorinated alkyl substances. So basically, if you aren't sure what PFAS are, maybe you've heard it in the news, you don't know what it is, and maybe you've never heard of it. They are basically in the news and very hot in state legislation against cosmetics. Because these are a class of chemical compounds that are considered forever chemicals. They don't break down, they persist in the environment pretty much forever.

[Perry Romanowski]

And I mean, that's how they're advertised. Yeah, but you know, nothing lasts forever.

[Valerie George]

It's. It's the newest thing that people are very concerned about. So when we think about the legal definition of a perfluorinated alkyl substance, it essentially means the legal definition in state legislation, it has to be a molecule with at least one fluoride fully fluorinated carbon atom. Carbons can have how many atoms attached to it?

[Perry Romanowski]

Perry can have four atoms attached to it.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. And aside from carbon being connected to other carbons, if there is a carbon in a molecule that has fluorine available in all of its other open spots, it would be considered a pfas. And in looking at the structure of methyl perfluorobutyl ether, which is a chemical that's commonly used in these self activating masks, it would meet the legal criteria for pfas, because when you look at the carbon atoms, they are fully saturated with fluorine molecules.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

So yes, they are a pfas.

[Perry Romanowski]

So what happens with that one is, so you just have a carbon and it's surrounded by four fluorines or three.

[Valerie George]

If it's attached to another carbon.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, right, right. And so what happens is that it evaporates off and as it evaporates, it creates the bubbles with the surfactant that's also in the mass.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. This is a molecule that's advertised to be very fast evaporating. And so actually to get it to foam, it has to interact with atmospheric oxygen to be volatilized into the air. And it also has to have surfactants present because as the chemical, the methyl perfluorobutyl ether moves through the product into the air, it passes through these surfactants and creates that foaming effect.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. Now I will say that when I first saw this question, I thought, you know, I've never made a product that self foams that uses a pfas because we would always use, you know, maybe a mix of citric acid and a bicarbonate or something like that. And you can get foaming that way or you could use even a propellant where you have a gel with propellant in it foams up. So it doesn't. Just because it's self foaming doesn't mean it has a PFAS in it. But some of them do.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. It has to be either this combination reaction, like Perry said, where at time of use you combine sodium bicarbonate and citric acid, or it's a special actuator package. But if you're talking about like a little mask or cream in a jar and you just put it on your skin and it takes a couple minutes to foam up, it's probably using a perfluorinated material and those meet the legal criteria for a pfas. It's also important to note, just because a molecule has the word fluoro in it, or a chemical has a fluorine molecule present, that doesn't necessarily make it a piece. It has to be fully fluorinated carbons we're talking about. And so unfortunately that means these fun k beauty self bubbling masks aren't really great for the environment. If pfas indeed aren't great for the environment. And so I probably would look for a product with these other technologies. Is there any benefit to using a self fizzing mask on your skin? No. They're fun to use. It's a novelty. So I would say they're, you know, probably a pass.

[Perry Romanowski]

This technology reminds me of microbeads because microbeads were put in facial cleansers as exfoliators. But it was really to me just more of a gimmick because it feels like it's doing something, but it's not. Doesn't really have much impact, but it has a big impact on the environment. But getting rid of them or avoiding things like this is not a big deal. Now I would say that pfas, there's no health or safety problem that has been identified, so they're safe to put on your skin. It's just for the environment. They build up in the environment and there's concern there.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. Well, our next question comes to us from another patron. Eliza. Hi. Question for you. I keep seeing Tik Tok creators put self tanner around their lips and eyes for long lasting contour. This isn't safe. Right. It would be life changing for me if it was. Yay. Never doing makeup again. But I just can't. I can't imagine it's safe to get that stuff in your eyes or mouth. Thanks in advance, Eliza from El Paso.

[Perry Romanowski]

So Tia is thanks in advance. I did not know that it says Tia. And I'm like, oh, is she somebody's Spanish aunt or something?

[Valerie George]

Thank goodness I'm on the show to help you out.

[Perry Romanowski]

Wow. Thank you. Well, I like this question because, you know, I just like dha. It's one of the only places where you can actually see chemistry happening when you're working in cosmetics.

[Valerie George]

Most products should not react in the jar or on your skin. And this is one of them that should.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, right. Because, you know, you think you're a chemist. When you're a chemist, you mix stuff together and you want to see chemical reactions happening. But when you become a cosmetic chemist, you just mix stuff together and you hope nothing happens. Because when reactions happen, that's usually bad.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. With the exception of self tanners, hair.

[Perry Romanowski]

Color and perms and relaxers. Yeah. So there are a few, but mostly not. Okay, let's talk about dha. You are correct to be concerned because while DHA is approved for external skin use, it's not really recommended for use near sensitive areas like the eyes, the lips, or any other mucous membranes. So, in fact, when you go get professionally spray tan, you know, you cover your eyes and do you put something over your mouth? No.

[Valerie George]

Well, I think you close your mouth. But also I think your vagina has to be protected as well because that's also a mucous membrane.

[Perry Romanowski]

So these skin regions, they're a bit thinner and they're more prone to irritation and accidental exposure, et cetera. And so they could actually cause harm. Applying self tanner near the mouth or the nose. It could mean you inhale dha and you're not really supposed to inhale dha.

[Valerie George]

I think this is more problematic if you're using the aerosolized self tanning products. But if you have like a little cream and you're kind of self rubbing it, probably not too big of a deal.

[Perry Romanowski]

I just think if you put it like under your little mustache area and you're like sniffing it in all day, but actually Most of it's going to react anyway. So that's probably, that's probably a low probability thing. So it's probably not that much of a concern anyway. The FDA does advise against using self tanners around those areas unless the product specifically says you can use it there. So who would say that?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a big health risk. Right. And there's a reason, like warnings around packages. And of course, it's like on Tick Tock, people are like doing all these like, hacks, like, oh, wow, why didn't anyone think of this? And it's like, it's just kind of like the Darwin Awards. Right. And then they'll sue the tanning company because they lost their eyesight.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. It's like, you know, people did think of that and they discovered it's a bad idea. We don't advertise every bad idea.

[Valerie George]

Right, exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

Can you think of any, like, safer or more practical things for the solution to this?

[Valerie George]

Oh, geez. Well, I think, you know, when it comes to contouring, there's obvious makeup. Right. You could do daily, daily looks. They sit topically on the surface of skin. They're not permanent. So when you wash your face at night or go to bed, it does rub off and you lose the look. If you were looking for something more permanent, you can do, I think there's like some microblading or some like, more permanent tattoo type techniques. But I think those always look so obvious and fake. And then if you don't want that look anymore.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right, right.

[Valerie George]

It's impossible to remove.

[Perry Romanowski]

So unfortunately there's not really a good substitute.

[Valerie George]

Unless you just want to take the risk.

[Perry Romanowski]

There is always that, but you did not get that advice from us.

[Valerie George]

No, I'm risk adverse. Don't do it.

[Perry Romanowski]

All right, our next question comes to us from Janie. She says, hi, beauty brains. I have two questions about two new serums I've been loving. Always nice when people love their products. The Olaplex bonding oil and the Garnier Moroccan Sleek smoothing oil. I love both of these products so much. But the first question, the Olaplex says that its heat protection is up to 450 degrees Fahrenheit, which is so hard to believe. I think it's the dimethicone that has the quality, but I can't wrap my head around how is this physically possible? Valerie, you are the heat protecting queen in the industry. How does that work?

[Valerie George]

Well, silicones like dimethicone, and in the case of the Olaplex product, probably more so the phenol trimethicone provide the heat protection to the product. And so essentially how this works is the dimethicone and the other ingredients, they form a film down the hair fiber. They kind of lubricate and coat the hair fiber, essentially. And what happens when you put heat on the hair is the silicone acts as a heat sink and absorbs some of the heat to buffer it from getting on your hair. And it also helps distribute the heat more evenly across the hair fiber, so it prevents more localized damage, let's say. And where the 450°F claim comes. Comes in is this actually just comes from the claims testing that they did. So when you make a heat protection claim, one of the things that you can do is you take a hair trust, you apply product to it, and then you do many passes down the hair fiber at 450 degrees Fahrenheit. And then you put a comb through the hair and see how much hair breaks over time. And if you can prove that less hair broke from this combing exercise with the product than without the product, then the product would consider to have heat protection. And so marketing is going to say, well, how hot does it protect? Because this is actually a very common question in the salon professional world, like, how hot can I go? And so you just look at the number you did the heat testing at, which the industry standard for these testing methodologies is 450 degrees Fahrenheit, and voila, you have some heat protection. Now, oils do this to some effect as well, like plant oils, but that's not the case here. Plant oils also have, like, a pretty low smoke point, so they're going to start to smoke off of the hair, which is why we don't use more plant oils in this type of application. But it's definitely the dimethicone and more definitely the phenyltrimethicone that they used.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah, very interesting. Okay. The next question she had was about her smoothing oil. Garnier smoothing oil seems to rely on silicones for this silky smoothing effect. I've noticed that it works well on my hair, but very inconsistently. And sometimes it starts to feel tacky or like it's not really penetrating my hair because it's still frizzy. Does this mean I have to use a clarifying shampoo to remove the build up so that it works again? If so, how often? I have pretty high porosity wavy hair. So thank you and hello to all the kittens. All right, so she's still frizzy, but she's Using this oil. What's going on here?

[Valerie George]

Well, this oil is very different from the Olaplex product. The Olaplex product, I would say, is pretty substantive to the hair. The Garnier product is more of a cyclic silicone type product. So cyclic silicones are basically silicones that have a circle structure. Examples are cyclopenta, siloxane, cyclotetrasiloxane. And so basically, these silicones that have circles, they can kind of bounce into the air and evaporate off the hair.

[Perry Romanowski]

Evaporate off? Yeah.

[Valerie George]

And then you're left with the dimethiconol, the fragrance, the argan oil, the apricot kernel oil. And, you know, the product has caro oil and beta carotene or whatever in it, presumably to color it. So you pretty much left with stuff on the hair fiber. And in this product, I am not sure why your hair still appears frizzy. Because cyclopentisiloxane and dimethecanol can help reduce frizz. Maybe it has to do with how much was distributed on your hair. Maybe it has to do with ambient humidity, because if the product's not evenly coated on your hair and there's some water exchange in the air to your hair, or maybe your bathroom was extra humid, maybe it's temperature related. You may get some differences. Maybe it has to do with, like, how clean your hair was. But none of this stuff should, like, build up on your hair long term. Dimethoconol and these oils pretty much wash off of your hair with the next shampoo.

[Perry Romanowski]

I think the fact that the cyclic silicone is evaporating off, that could actually have an impact on the perceived frizz. So over time, you know, the silicone's gone that one anyway. And so water can sort of absorb unevenly in your hair, and that can kind of cause the frizz. Exactly. I think the dimethiconol might be enough, but if you got the cyclomethicone and a dimethicone sort of blended together, there's gonna be holes in there when the cyclomethicone goes off.

[Valerie George]

Well, I've worked on products like this, and the trick is not to only use volatile things because then they. They go away. You have to also use things that stay on the hair, but not so much that the hair looks greasy. So it could just be, you know, not the greatest formula.

[Perry Romanowski]

It's a tricky balance.

[Valerie George]

All right, our next question is from Stacy. I'm new to the podcast, but so far I love it. There's so much information out There. And it's nice to hear from people that actually have science to back up things they say. I'm turning 30 this year and barely started getting into skincare over the past year. Horrible, I know, but better late than never, right? Many people recommend very pricey products, and I just can't justify spending nearly $100 for one product. The most expensive product I've ever owned was maybe 30 bucks. Are pricier products really more effective and worth the cost, or will my lower cost items still get the job done? Are there certain types of products like moisturizer, eye cream, serum that I should splurge on rather than going the cheaper route? Thanks for any advice you can give Stacy.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, wait a second. So she says it's horrible that she hasn't taken care of her skin until she's 30.

[Valerie George]

Now, I mean, that's pretty bad.

[Perry Romanowski]

I mean, I'm 55. When do I start taking care of my skin?

[Valerie George]

Well, I feel like you men are different because they have, like, a different amount of skin sebum production on their skin. They don't have this hormone fluctuation. I don't think they're laughing and having as much fun as women are. So, like, you know, they don't get these fine lines.

[Perry Romanowski]

Oh, sure, sure. And, you know, and they also have that part where many of them just don't care as much.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, you don't care. Yeah.

[Perry Romanowski]

I'm not gonna say I'm indicative of all men, but I think, you know, there are a lot more basic bobs than there are Basic Betty's.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, Mr. Cosmetic Chemist is a basic bob. But what's funny is he's always, like, complaining about my products in the shower.

[Perry Romanowski]

That they're too many or that he doesn't like how they work.

[Valerie George]

Well, that they're too many. And honestly, he didn't really care how the products worked until he grew his hair out. And then he tried Beyonce's sacred line. And he was like, this stuff is disgusting. It's like putting oatmeal on your hair. And now he's been using the Augustinus Botter products I had to buy for something. And, you know, he doesn't mind those, but he complains that I'll say, oh, my gosh, look, we finished a product and we can get it out of the shower. And he says it doesn't matter because when one goes away, five more show up.

[Perry Romanowski]

They're like. They're like tribbles.

[Valerie George]

I have a stock. Anyway, Stacey, don't beat yourself up that you didn't Take care of your skin. The important thing is you're starting now.

[Perry Romanowski]

I will say that the one big part of taking care of your skin under 30 is don't get sunburn. Because that sunburn that can impact your skin decades down the line. Right.

[Valerie George]

I think when you're younger, what you're really looking for is prevention. You don't need all these creams and serums and stuff. You just need to protect your skin from the sun because that's what does the most damage over time.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. So as long as you were doing that and you know, if you had acne or something and you use products for that, you know, that's like spot treatments and things, I don't think there's much you need to do well before 30 and still have good looking skin.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, mostly I just did skin protection myself. I've been wearing SPF for a long time, staying out of the sun, not moving my face, all those kinds of things. And not smoking. I think smoking is another.

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, yeah, don't smoke. But what. So not moving your face. So it was like you got resting bitch face or something.

[Valerie George]

Well, a lot of people, when they go out in the sun, even when they wear sunglasses, they squint and squint, you know, squeeze their eyes together, like crunch their face up. And you cannot do that because that's how you get lots of fine lines and wrinkles between your eyebrows and around your eyes.

[Perry Romanowski]

Like you specifically train yourself not to do that.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, all you have to do is just shut, you know, kind of lower your eyelids and don't scrunch the rest of your face up. I taught everyone in the lab how to do it because they were like, wow, you look so young. And I'm like, don't scrunch your face in the sun.

[Perry Romanowski]

It is so hard to be a girl.

[Valerie George]

Anyway. Okay, Stacy, so what matters is you're starting now. And I think that's really great. People get so wrapped up in buying these high end products, and the reality is some of them are very good and some of them are okay and some of them are not good. The most important thing you can do for yourself, and I've preached this before, is to get a routine. If you can be dedicated with cleansing your face once a week, exfoliating very lightly to remove dead skin buildup, moisturizing and wearing SPF during the day, that's all you need. It kind of doesn't really matter what you use. I mean, yeah, that's the fun part. You can play around and add a serum if you want an eye cream, you can add an eye cream, but they're not really necessary. And I think if you can just do a basic routine that's like 80% of the battle, and you're going to see a big improvement in the texture, quality, and tone of your skin.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. And just because a product is sold in a drugstore, at a Target or something doesn't mean it's inferior to something you can only get at Sephora or something. In this business, price and performance are not necessarily linked.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanowski]

Okay, we have one last question come to us from Valerio.

[Valerie George]

I think it's Valerio. Valerio. Really?

[Perry Romanowski]

Well, it's like Valerie, but instead of the E at the end, it's O.

[Valerie George]

I could see that, but I think it's Valerio from Italia.

[Perry Romanowski]

In fact, they are from Italy. So here's the question. Hi, Dynamic duo. You're the best. I'm Valerio from Italy. My dream is to be a cosmetic chemist. I know. Now I want to know about Brazilian nanoplasty, about its chemistry and the damages that it creates on hair and how it works on the hair. Thank you. Now, when I first started nanoplasty, I'm like, I don't think we talk about nose jobs or cosmetic surgery here, Right.

[Valerie George]

Well, that would be rhinoplasty, like a rhinoceros. But when we first talked about this in the episode, I think 333 or something like that, I also thought this was, like, some kind of cosmetic surgery for your hair. And I was like, what, a haircut?

[Perry Romanowski]

Right. No. Okay. Nanoplasty is a hair treatment that straightens and smooth the hair while technically restoring the health, they say, from the inside out. Unlike the old traditional keratin treatments, nanoplasty uses a formula that has, like, a bunch of natural stuff like amino acids, collagen, organic acids, linseed oil, et cetera. And they claim that these nutrients can penetrate the hair at the cellular level, as if hair fiber has cells. But they set the cellular level, strengthening it, adding shine, and leaving it silky. So they really push the safety of this process, saying, that's free of, you know, formaldehyde or irritants, and it's even safe enough for kids and pregnant women.

[Valerie George]

Wow.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. They say it avoids the strong smells and irritation associated with keratin treatments, and the treatment can last from four to eight months with natural hair movement.

[Valerie George]

So, yeah, this sounds like a bunch of marketing stuff to me. And the fact that they're using the word nano implies to me that they're using some Kind of nan nanotechnology or nanomaterials, which is just, by the way, not really cool in products. I think that's hard to get past toxicological review.

[Perry Romanowski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

And the fact that it's like, repairing and healing from the inside out, and then it's, you know, it just. That's all marketing fluff. To me. This is basically a straightening product. And they're trying to put a new spin on it that separates it a little bit. And the use of the word plasti elevates it to this, like, surgery, you know, doctor, like, kind of permanent change. Like, wow, this is a procedure I'm investing in. It gives it that sort of vibe. And it's all just marketing. It's not really science.

[Perry Romanowski]

No, there's not a lot of science to explain. Now, the way that a keratin treatment works is typically you're going to have a formaldehyde group, which can cause a chemical reaction between the keratin in the product and the hair proteins on your hair, and that's what makes it stick. Now, I'm looking at this product. They have to have something in here that's gonna make the amino acids stick onto the hair. Maybe they're able to get a chemical reaction with the heat and whatever else is in there and the amino acids or the collagen to get that stick in the hair. But I'm not really seeing it here.

[Valerie George]

No, I'm not sold. And if this costs, like, way more money than another type of straightening treatment that's also formaldehyde free, by the way, there's a bunch that are really great out there, then I probably wouldn't spend the money on it. If it were on par, I would probably give it a try, but I would still be skeptical about the superiorness or superiosity. What's the word, when it's more superior?

[Perry Romanowski]

Superiority.

[Valerie George]

Yes. All right. I was a chemistry major, not an English major.

[Perry Romanowski]

You were never in a sorority.

[Valerie George]

Superiority. Oh, my gosh. Well, anyway, I. I'm just a little skeptical, as Perry would say, that this is like the next greatest thing. It just looks like a lot of hair marketing mumbo jumbo.

[Perry Romanowski]

The challenge here, whenever you're innovating, you always have to come up with some new product, but technology doesn't change that much. So when technology doesn't change and you need to come out a new product, the only thing you could do is come up with a new story. And this seems to me like the same tech. A twist on the current technology with.

[Valerie George]

A new story and the reality Is Perry the way it talks about the treatment, you know, when you look at the different websites of people that. And product lines that offer this nanoplastic, they talk about it being safer for the hair, better for the hair. Like it's a more holistic approach for the hair.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. They say you can straighten it and heal it simultaneously, which.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. And the reality is when you have a product like this, you have to get the hair really open, swollen. You have to use a lot of heat to activate the technology to realign the bonds within the hair. And he is extremely damaging. And so the only thing I would use caution is if you're going to explore this treatment for your hair, is that it is damaging. So even though your hair looks smoother, healthier, shinier, it has undergone a significant amount of damage during the treatment.

[Perry Romanowski]

And speaking of damage, I hear the music.

[Valerie George]

Well, thanks for listening, everyone, to our first episode of the new year. We're already on a good start.

[Perry Romanowski]

Yeah. And if you get a chance and you go over to Apple Podcasts, please leave us a review that's going to help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer. We also will take Spotify reviews too, and we respond to comments there. Incidentally, if you do have a question, just record it on your smartphone and email it to the beauty brains@beauty gmail.com. or you can just use the form that I put in the show notes.

[Valerie George]

The Beauty Brains are also on Patreon. As Perry mentioned earlier, we are an ad free podcast and I think we're actually the only ad free beauty podcast online and we are the longest running beauty podcast online as well. Nonetheless, we don't want to have annoying ads on the show because, you know.

[Perry Romanowski]

I think we're the farthest running one too because, you know, I run at least 1200 miles a year.

[Valerie George]

Wow. And I don't run at all, so. So Perry's pulling all the weight there. Regardless, we need your help because there are basic costs with supporting the show. So if you want to contribute at any level, we're so appreciative. Head over to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe.

[Perry Romanowski]

And you get a transcript of the show and you also get your questions a higher priority than any other ones we get.

[Valerie George]

Also, don't forget to follow us on our various social media accounts. On Instagram, at the BeautyBreens 2008 on X, we're at the Beauty Brains. On Blue sky, we're at the Beauty Brains. We have a Facebook page and a.

[Perry Romanowski]

TikTok for now until the Supreme Court bans it.

[Valerie George]

Maybe not. Well, thanks again for listening, everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[Perry Romanowski]

Thanks, everyone. Kittens.

[C]

Question every time Beauty brains we're breaking it Doubt Chemistry truths and industry sounds from self tanners to nanoplasty it's more than a glow, it's reality.

[Valerie George]

Beauty.

[C]

Brains with every refrain Science over hype let knowledge rain Nanoplasty claims it can heal your hair Heat and collagen science or flair Luxury serums versus budget creams which one delivers on its gleam? Eliza's eyes and Shawn's PFAS fears Stacy search for skincare's frontier From Italy to El Paso's glow the beauty brains reveal what you should know what's in your bottle, your jar, your cream Is it safety value or just a dream? Or just a dream? Listen up Valerio here's the key Always question the chemistry Beauty brains we're breaking it down Chemistry truths and industry sounds from self tanners to nanoplasty it's more than a glow, it's reality Beauty plays with every refrain Science overhype let knowledge rain.