Episode 398 - Product talk with Sarah Bellum

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Beauty Brains - Episode 398: Product Talk with Sarah Bellum

Release Date: June 6, 2025

In this engaging episode of The Beauty Brains, host Valerie George welcomes guest Sarah Bellum to discuss a range of beauty products, sharing their expert insights and personal experiences. The conversation delves into the efficacy of customizable scalp serums, the merits of mass-market versus premium shampoos, the use of medicated shampoos for dandruff, favorite sunscreen products, and makeup recommendations tailored for different skin concerns.

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1. Prose’s Customizable Scalp Serum

[01:01] Sarah Bellum: Sarah introduces a joggler from the international joggling community who is hosting Perry, emphasizing the niche yet passionate community surrounding joggling.

[01:22] Valerie George: Valerie transitions into discussing beauty news, highlighting Prose's launch of the first-ever customizable scalp serum. She expresses skepticism about the necessity of such a product based on her professional experience.

Key Points:

• Customizable Approach: Prose offers a personalized solution for scalp care through extensive questionnaires, aiming to address individual scalp concerns.
• Professional Skepticism: Valerie shares her background in developing scalp imaging technology, noting that most people do not have significant scalp issues beyond oiliness. She states, “Most people don't actually have a scalp problem” ([03:03]).
• Ingredient Concerns: The duo critiques the ingredients commonly found in scalp serums, such as exfoliants and triglycerides, arguing they may not be beneficial and could potentially disrupt scalp health ([05:55]).

Notable Quote:

• Valerie George: “You don't need triglycerides, especially if you have a microbial imbalance” ([06:06]).

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2. Favorite Mass-Market Shampoos

[08:35] Sarah Bellum: The conversation shifts to favorite shampoos, starting with mass-market options available at retailers like Walmart and Target.

Key Points:

• Pantene Praise: Sarah endorses Pantene shampoo and conditioner, noting their effectiveness in blind tests against salon brands. She mentions, “Pantene conditioner is tried and true” ([09:19].
• Herbal Essence Nostalgia: Valerie reminisces about using Herbal Essence in high school, though she notes changes in fragrances over the years ([11:46]).
• Garnier Fructis: Valerie highlights Garnier’s Sleek and Shine Smoothing shampoo as her current favorite for mass-market options, appreciating its affordability and effectiveness ([12:16]).

Notable Quote:

• Sarah Bellum: “Pantene shampoo and conditioner blew everything out of the water” ([10:14]).

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3. Premium Shampoos

[13:22] Valerie George: Transitioning to premium shampoos, Valerie and Sarah discuss higher-priced brands offering specialized hair care solutions.

Key Points:

• Paul Mitchell’s Curly Hair Line: Sarah mentions her fondness for Paul Mitchell’s curly hair products, specifically the Spring Loaded Frizz Fighting shampoo and conditioner ([13:39]).
• Aveda’s Fragrance Appeal: Aveda's B Curl shampoo and conditioner receive praise for their pleasant fragrances, though Valerie notes the conditioner feels slightly waxy ([14:50]).
• Kerastase Blonde Absolute: Valerie recommends Kerastase’s hydrating shampoo for blondes, highlighting its luxurious feel and effective cleansing without stripping hair moisture ([15:58]).

Notable Quote:

• Valerie George: “Kerastase Blonde Absolute hydrating, illuminating shampoo... leaves me really clean.” ([15:58]).

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4. Medicated Shampoos for Dandruff

[20:32] Valerie George: The discussion moves to medicated shampoos, addressing their necessity and effectiveness for dandruff sufferers.

Key Points:

• Head & Shoulders as Category Leader: Both hosts agree that Head & Shoulders is the go-to brand for dandruff, effective in reducing scalp itchiness and flakes ([22:19]).
• Selsun Blue and Nizoral: Valerie criticizes Selsun Blue for its masculine branding and limited appeal, while Sarah notes limited personal experience with these products ([22:32]).
• Alternative Remedies: Valerie mentions a reformulated coal tar shampoo, popular among men for beard care, despite its strong diesel-like odor ([24:26]).

Notable Quote:

• Valerie George: “Head and Shoulders… also cater to improving the look and feel of hair, not just the scalp.” ([22:29]).

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5. Sunscreen Products

[26:03] Valerie George: Valerie and Sarah delve into their preferred sunscreens, emphasizing the importance of daily SPF use, especially during summer.

Key Points:

• ELTA MD Color Correcting Sunscreen: Sarah praises ELTA MD’s mineral-based sunscreen for its lightweight feel and absence of the chalky residue typical of mineral sunscreens ([26:16]).
• Supergoop Glow Screen: Sarah mentions enjoying Supergoop’s glow-enhancing sunscreen, while Valerie shares her preference for ELTA MD due to its texture and effectiveness ([28:00]).
• Alicia Keys Sunscreen: Valerie comments on the Alicia Keys sunscreen's waxy feel, appreciating its packaging and functional reminders for skincare habits ([28:57]).

Notable Quote:

• Sarah Bellum: “ELTA MD product to me is a perfect consistency. It's not too thick like some sunscreens could be, but it's not a super runny fluid as well.” ([27:22]).

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6. Makeup Recommendations and Tips

[30:11] Sarah Bellum: The conversation shifts to makeup, where Sarah shares her passion and offers recommendations for those with specific skin concerns like rosacea.

Key Points:

• IT Cosmetics CC Cream: Sarah recommends IT Cosmetics CC Cream for its SPF 30 coverage and luminous finish, suitable for those seeking light coverage without heavy makeup ([31:30]).
• Foundation Choices: She contrasts persistent use of high-end foundations like Dior and NARS with more affordable options like L'Oréal Infallible, noting the challenges of shade matching in mass-market stores ([33:02]).
• ELF Beauty Dupes: Sarah highlights ELF’s Halo Glow liquid filter as a budget-friendly alternative to Charlotte Tilbury’s high-end products, praising its performance in blind tests ([36:49]).
• Cream Eyeshadows: Both discuss the resurgence of cream eyeshadows, sharing tips to prevent creasing by applying setting powder beforehand ([41:25]).

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah Bellum: “IT Cosmetics CC Cream… blends well, and it makes my skin feel a little more luminous.” ([31:30]).
• Sarah Bellum: “ELF is doing a great job... duping these iconic prestige products.” ([38:12]).

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7. Closing Remarks

In the closing segment, Valerie and Sarah exchange final thoughts on the discussed products, with Sarah expressing newfound inspiration to experiment with different hair care options. They also briefly touch upon emerging technologies in makeup application, pondering the effectiveness of AI-driven makeup advice tools.

Notable Quote:

• Valerie George: “I'm not a makeup experimenter... But I'll give them a try and report back.” ([43:35]).

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Conclusion

This episode offers a comprehensive look into various beauty products from the perspective of experienced cosmetic chemists. Valerie and Sarah provide valuable critiques and endorsements, helping listeners make informed decisions about their beauty routines. Their candid discussions bridge the gap between scientific expertise and everyday beauty practices, making The Beauty Brains a trusted resource for beauty enthusiasts.

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For more insights and detailed discussions on beauty products, tune into The Beauty Brains podcast and stay informed about the latest in cosmetic science and trends.

Transcript

[Valerie George]

Hi, I'm Valerie, and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetics industry. This is episode 398. I'm your host, Valerie George, and with me today is Sarah Bellum. Hi, Sarah.

[Sarah Bellum]

Hey, Valerie. It's good to be here.

[Valerie George]

Thank you for coming. That's right, guys. Today, Perry was supposed to host the show, but he couldn't make it. And I still don't have the guts to do my own solo episode. So I said, sarah, please save me and join me and we'll talk about some fun stuff.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah, always. Always.

[Valerie George]

Well, first, inane chit chat. So maybe you guys are wondering why Perry couldn't be here. No, he is not traveling, but someone traveled to him. He is hosting a joggler from the international joggling community. And gu. They're doing right now. Joggling.

[Sarah Bellum]

They are joggling? Yeah. So this. This person lives in the UK and he came to the US it's his first time in the US and he's visiting multiple jogglers across the US So we're on the stop. So he was in Madison. Now he's in Chicago visiting us, and then he's off to Boston. Who knew there was such a large juggling joggling community? Valerie.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my goodness. And he's going to be right on Lake Michigan there, and it's going to be really pretty. Wow. Well, good for.

[Sarah Bellum]

That.

[Valerie George]

We can talk beauty news and product and all that kind of stuff.

[Sarah Bellum]

Definitely.

[Valerie George]

Let's jump right in. So as far as beauty news goes, Prose has launched a hair scalp serum.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

And they are saying it was the first ever custom scalp serum available on the market. Really? There's never other. Never been another scalp serum before that's customizable?

[Sarah Bellum]

It seems dubious at best.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my gosh. Well, okay. I went online because I've used pros before, and I'm not going to lie, I'm not a fan of the shampoo. I'm not a fan of the conditioner. I think they're really gross for hair use, overuse, and they feel very basic. And I've even gotten a couple ones where I've customized different ones before to different quiz answers. And, you know, can you tell a difference? Not really. But the reason I was interested in the scalp is when I was in my previous life at a salon brand, I actually created a software program. I mean, I didn't do the coding, but basically we Took a device and we created an algorithm that allowed the device to image your scalp and detect using artificial intelligence to detect, like, different scalp and hair anomalies and make predictions about, like, what your scalp could need, like, what your scalp concerns were. And we imaged over 7,000 scalps, and we had to look at every image and figure out, like, okay, what's happening here? And help train the artificial intelligence.

[Sarah Bellum]

Right, right.

[Valerie George]

And that device is no longer on the market, at least under the salon brand that I worked for. But it was interesting. We learned that most people don't actually have a scalp problem. So people would self report, like, oh, I'm sensitive. Oh, I have dandruff. Oh, I have these issues. And the reality is, like, aside from oiliness, people don't really have scalp issues. And so it's interesting that the scalp market has exploded with all these products that honestly, in my opinion, your scalp doesn't really need.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah, 100. It's just another way to get people to buy more hair care products.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Sarah Bellum]

And I've never used pros personally, but it seems a little gimmicky in my opinion.

[Valerie George]

Well, for the scalp quiz, it's a very big quiz. And basically you answer a lot of the same questions as the hair, except it goes down to like, do you have hair loss? Does your family have genetic hair loss? How often are you washing your hair? How long until it gets oily again? Are you prone to flakiness? Are you sensitive? And by the way, everyone thinks they have a sensitive scalp, but very few people actually have an oily scalp. And so you answer a lot of same questions. A lot of it is data gathering, in my opinion, because a lot of it isn't actually really relevant to scalp.

[Sarah Bellum]

Right.

[Valerie George]

And I mean, it's many, many questions going into your hair and scalp treatments. You use styling tools, you use, you know, do you wear your hair in any of these styles? Like, what's your lifestyle? How do you live? Are you post pregnancy? Which could be important for hair loss, but I don't think a scalp serum is going to solve that.

[Sarah Bellum]

Right.

[Valerie George]

You know, Exactly. Are you mostly eating vegetables or protein? Does your hair retain odors? Talks about stress, which is really cool because stress is difficult for scalp. But if you work out, is it indoors, outdoors, it's just like a really long quiz. And at the end of the day, I just don't know if the scalp will be scalp product will make a difference. I don't think it'll be so different.

[Sarah Bellum]

Well, and what are they ultimately like promoting that it's gonna do, like, help regrow hair, which seems like that's drug territory. So I'm trying to figure out what the benefits of the scalp serum are.

[Valerie George]

Well, I guess you wouldn't know until you got one and they told you, like, the ingredients and the key benefits. Right. The thing is, a lot of scalp serums actually use ingredients that I just personally don't recommend for scalp. I actually do a talk. I was in California doing it a few weeks ago ago, and basically, I think a lot of brands are doing okay on scalp products, but a lot of brands are getting it wrong because your scalp doesn't need exfoliators, especially if you have, like, dandruff, where you have overgrowth and an excessive turnover of skin. You don't need more of that with acids.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

You just. You don't need triglycerides, especially if you have a microbial imbalance, because triglycerides feed opportunistic bacteria and yeast.

[Sarah Bellum]

Sure.

[Valerie George]

And you don't need physical exfoliants. Most of these extracts can't really get through the scalp skin because it's so thick. In fact, it's about 8 millimeters, whereas your facial skin, like around your periorbital region is less than 2 millimeters. So it's like ultra thick to protect your skull. So, like, I don't know, I just think there's a lot of areas of opportunity, primarily like in collagen loss and stuff like that, but who knows what they're doing? But a lot of people are using things on their scalp they shouldn't. And at the end of the day, you just need a really good clarifying, sulfated shampoo.

[Sarah Bellum]

Definitely. And I'm looking at some of these ingredients that they have in there. And I mean, it's all, you know, maca root, rice peptides, kombucha tea. It just. I don't know, it seems like I said I'm skeptical of this product. And then, Valerie, I saw how much they're charging for it.

[Valerie George]

Oh, I didn't even pay attention to that. What is it?

[Sarah Bellum]

If you buy it once, it's $56.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sarah Bellum]

I mean, that's a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah, it is.

[Valerie George]

I mean, a lot of money for probably water, glycols and some extracts.

[Sarah Bellum]

Right. And it's a small, little, like, dropper bottle like you would use for skincare. And I'm still, like, I'm looking at the website, and I'm still not quite sure what it does. So that's. That's. So that's a problem. And then of course they have a subscription model, which I believe they have for all of their products. Like I said, I haven't used them, but. Huh. Interesting.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, interesting. Well, we'll see how it does. I do notice that they, and I totally forgot about this, they have customizable skin care now as well.

[Sarah Bellum]

I know, I was surprised. I mean, I knew it was a big deal when they came out with hair care just because of, you know, it. It actually reminds me of the old Clinique model. You know, you remember you did like the three Step Clinique skin care and you filled out their little like, chart. So it just. Obviously their survey is more in depth. Depth. But it's just, it's. I don't know. All those questions don't seem to really, you know, unless you're crossing into drug Terry territory with some of those claims like hair regrowth. I don't know. I'm skeptical, but interesting nonetheless.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Well, speaking of shampoos, there was also an article. Perry and I are actually going to cover it next time because he really wanted to cover it best Shampoos for Men and New Beauty. And Perry doesn't often talk about products, so hopefully it'll be a good conversation and he can maybe tell us if he's used some but. Or maybe what his favorite shampoos are.

[Sarah Bellum]

But you know what a beauty connoisseur Perry is.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, his list will be exhaustive.

[Sarah Bellum]

That's for sure. For sure. For sure.

[Valerie George]

But I was thinking we could talk about our favorite shampoos for women.

[Sarah Bellum]

Perfect.

[Valerie George]

Let's start mass market only because I think it's accessible. It's many places could be purchased, great price point. But a lot of people frown upon mass market products because they're viewed as maybe cheap. They have sulfates, terrible for your hair, full of toxins, which is not true.

[Sarah Bellum]

Right.

[Valerie George]

I think Walmart and Target are some of the best places to get shampoos for your hair. So that being said, do you have a favorite mass market shampoo?

[Sarah Bellum]

A hundred percent. And I've used it for many years. Valerie and I know that the hair stylists will, you know, they frown upon it. But I am a Pantene girl shampoo and conditioner. I've used it, like I said, for many, many years. And I will, you know, I will try anything, but I always go back to it, you know, and it's funny, I think a lot of the perceptions of mass market products being negative have started with hairstylists, like, I don't know about you, My hair stylist is always like, oh, they build up on your hair. It's terrible. The sulfate, you know, obviously I, I bite my tongue because I already know that that's not true. So. But yeah, Pantene conditioner is tried and true. And I know when we worked in the hair care industry, we tested it blind. It was always the, the top performer from a consumer perspective, against salon brands. Even in blind testing, even if you.

[Valerie George]

Change the packaging and change the fragrance and show it to a hairstylist, most of them are like, this is pretty good. Like, the hair feels good.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

But again, I think it's just like perception. I remember we did a ton of competitive product testing when I ran R D at that major salon brand I worked at, because it's very important to know what's going on. And we didn't just test like other salon products. Yeah. When Pantene launched their Gold series, now they have many versions.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes.

[Valerie George]

But their, their OG Gold series, about six years ago, maybe five years ago, it tested so well in our product evaluation center. It just left most hair types feeling amazing.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

It felt high quality, but the price point was just so affordable for all of the products. And we did the shampoos, the conditioners, the treatments, the masks, the leave in styling products. We did everything and everything rated really well.

[Sarah Bellum]

I mean, we saw a similar experience. I mean, I don't know if we tested all their products, but shampoo and conditioner blew everything out of the water. Both, you know, other mask products and salon products. So I've been a long time user and fan and I continue to go back to it. I just think it leaves my hair feeling nice and it smells good. And the conditioner, I hate when conditioners leave my hair feeling like raspy. You know, sometimes it doesn't like, have a good slip. Like I think it. Pantene has a great slip, so it's, it's my favorite. How about you? What are you, what are your preferences?

[Valerie George]

If you asked me, if you asked me in high school, I would have said Herbal Essence, the original fragrance, because this girl sat in front of me in physics class and she had such long hair and she would always flip it over her shoulders in class. And I never minded, it was so great. But the scent now is not the same and fragrance regulations change. It's. They didn't change it for nefarious reasons, but so great. And the shampoo wasn't bad. And I remember using it in the.

[Sarah Bellum]

Clear bottles and, oh, 100%. Yeah.

[Valerie George]

Then they got weird and went to all these other varietals. But the core ear essence was great. But since probably 2005 or 6, I've been a huge fan of Garnier Fructis Sleek and Shine Smoothing shampoo in the green bottle. And it has like an avocado or something on the front of it. I love it.

[Sarah Bellum]

I'm a fan of their products too. And it's funny, I use their styling products. So for shampoo and conditioner, I use Pantene. And for styling, in fact, I just bought the curl cream from Garnier.

[Valerie George]

Okay.

[Sarah Bellum]

And it smells amazing. It's like coconutty. And I don't know, I could like smell my own hair yesterday. It smelled delightful. So I'm a fan.

[Valerie George]

Give that a try. Yeah, I don't usually use too many leave ins or stylers, but yeah, no, I like the smell. I like that it leaves my hair really clean. And it also controls frizz thanks to some of the Polyquaternium 10 and ammo dimethicone in it. But yeah, just a really great shampoo. I think you get a big bottle for like five bucks.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah, pretty.

[Valerie George]

Pretty amazing. Now moving up into the more premium categories. Not ultra premium, but like if you were to spend 30 to $40 on a shampoo, what would you be?

[Sarah Bellum]

And I don't actually know if they make this anymore. It's been a while. But Paul Mitchell had this line for curly hair and I loved it. And I honestly don't even know if they make anymore because I remember trying to find it and I couldn't. But it might have just been the Ulta I was at.

[Valerie George]

Was it white and purple?

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes, it was white and purple.

[Valerie George]

The spring loaded Frizz Fighting shampoo.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes.

[Valerie George]

They still make it.

[Sarah Bellum]

Okay. Yes. Sounds like you might know a thing or two about that brand. But I, I liked their products. I used the whole line. The shampoo conditioner, and they had like an air dry cream and I liked it a lot. So I would say, and I'm glad, you know, they still make it because I did like that product. So I would say that. And then Aveda has a curl conditioner that I like mostly for the fragrance, to be honest. Aveda's fragrances are always, I don't know, they're very good. Yeah, the conditioner, it's a little, I would say it feels a little waxy to me. I don't know if there's like dimethicone in there or not. I'd have to look at the ingredient, like label. It doesn't have the Slip that I like from Pantene, but it's a nice conditioner. So I would say the Paul Mitchell line or the Aveda, I think it's called B Curl shampoo and conditioner.

[Valerie George]

Oh, I haven't tried that one. Yeah, the Spring Loaded, that was a formula. I never. You never remembered to use it until you had to, you know, do something with it or check something out of production. Or maybe we qualified a new raw material supplier and we would batch it and make sure it performed the same. And when we would test it, I would be like, man, I forgot that this is actually like a really great product.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

And then. But you know, there's just so much other stuff.

[Sarah Bellum]

I know, I know. It's like there's so many and it's. And I know you liked it. You could try a lot of different things. I'm kind of more tried and true, but that was a line that I might have to. Now I kind of have to go to Ulta and see if I can get something because I did like it. And my hair, as it gets more humid, is getting frizzier and frizzier. So anything to sort of tame the beast would be good.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, well, you can see how frizzy my hair is. The humidity in Texas is out of control and all these little wisps that are now growing back in or. Yeah, in full force now. Not for my hair, but I use it anyway. I really love the Kerastaz Blonde absolute hydrating, illuminating shampoo.

[Sarah Bellum]

Wow. That's probably.

[Valerie George]

I know it's pretty expensive. I would actually say it's actually more in the premium category. But it's a clear shampoo. I think it's very cleansing, but it doesn't feel like so cleansing and stripping. Like if I'm going to deep clean my scalp, I would use like a Paul Mitchell shampoo. One like basic hardcore. Not hardcore, but sulfate free shampoo. Not gonna leave a lot of stuff behind. And I feel like this does that, but it feels a little more creamy, luxurious on the hair. And I always feel really, really clean. I also love the corresponding probably so even more like the conditioner that goes with it because I feel like I have that. Yeah. That slipping glide you feel when you use Pantene. Yeah, my hair just feels really soft. I just, Yeah, I really like. I don't get a lot of waxy residue behind. Sometimes the Evita products do that as well. Or like I just finished this banana conditioner from Germany. It's a long story anyway. But yeah, my hair feels waxy.

[Sarah Bellum]

With that. But yeah. Yeah. Aveda does kind of have that feel, but I don't know if I've ever used carrot. That would be above what I would spend. But I might have to buy a small bottle. I'm. What makes it blonde. Like, what you said is blonde illuminating. Is it targeting blondes or, like, what's the. What's the deal?

[Valerie George]

They are. They are targeting blondes. And I think they've colored it light purple because people associate purple with blonde.

[Sarah Bellum]

Right.

[Valerie George]

Shampoos to, like, neutralize the hair. But it doesn't have purple colorant in it. It really, I think, is meant to. To be like a hydrating and strengthening shampoo. So it's really like what happens when you. And they do have a dark purple shampoo in the line, but it's like what happens when you are blonde. You've artificially lightened your hair. You have a lot of damage, it feels dry, and so it kind of. Kind of counteracts that stuff.

[Sarah Bellum]

Okay. I mean, I do. I do dye my hair blonde, so maybe I should try it.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Maybe get the little bottle when you get it.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah. I was gonna say I'll see if I get. They have a trial size or a travel size. Cause Kerastase is. Is pricey and probably not, you know, much better than the Pantene I'm using. But I do like to experiment, so I'll have to check it out.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Now, what. What is the most you would pay for a shampoo?

[Sarah Bellum]

Oh. I mean, for a shampoo. Honestly, like, $10. I'm so cheap with shampoo, I just don't think it matters. Most of it washes down the drain. Like, I just have a. You know, I'm very. With shampoo, with conditioner, I'll spend a little more because I do have some, like, coarse, frizzy hair. So I definitely need something to detangle.

[Valerie George]

And it's left behind.

[Sarah Bellum]

Right. Then it's left behind. Like shampoo. No, I'm. I'm super cheap with shampoo.

[Valerie George]

You know, I do try a lot of stuff, only because I have to. I formulate for a lot of big hair brands, small hair brands, medium hair brands. And so you kind of always have to be on the up and up with what's going on, you know, But I probably would say spend like, 28 out of pocket max.

[Sarah Bellum]

Okay.

[Valerie George]

On my own. But, you know, because it's for work, you know, I'll just, you know, it's a business expense.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah. 100. And, you know, and I've been lucky like you, I get to try stuff for free every so often. And, you know, I do enjoy that, but on my own, like, you know, and by choice, I buy, you know, Pantene shampoo and conditioner. I will say with conditioner, I'm a little more open. I probably spend more like 20, $25 for a conditioner if I thought, like, you know, partly I just like to experiment, but it is a more, for me, a benefit that I need. Like, if I didn't use conditioner, I don't even think I could get a comb through my hair. You know, it's a must.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Sarah Bellum]

Must have product for me.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. And honestly, I'll say I probably had different favorite shampoos when I lived in California because the water quality was different than Texas. And also the air has a different humidity level, and so that impacts your hair differently. So I just found primarily, even from the water, the stuff I would usually use in California where I was like, wow, this shampoo is awesome. On the prestige level, like R&CO Blue, there was a shampoo I really loved. It just makes my hair feel really gross in Texas.

[Sarah Bellum]

So isn't that interesting? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Valerie George]

So that's been tough. I'm still trying to find, like, my. My holy grail. Also, I'm on a product buying ban, which I totally get until we can use some of the products up. And I'll be like to Mr. Cosmetic Chemist, Babe, you know, I finished a conditioner. And he's like, it doesn't matter. Two more will show up. So he's not wrong.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah, I know. Actually, it's funny, Valerie. I was. I was cleaning out my bathroom and I, you know, I find these, like, half empty products. I'm like, huh, maybe I should have used that before something else. But I don't know, you know, you go to Target and everything, it's just, I don't know. I like to experiment with beauty, obviously. And, yeah, it's part of my job as a cosmetic chemist to know what's out there.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. Now, let's talk medicated shampoos real quick. So people, a small subset of people do have dandruff. And I'm not talking. You see a flake. Oh, my gosh, I have dandruff. I should go get a medicated shampoo. I. I don't agree with that. And, you know, after looking at 7,000 scalps, I've seen a lot of stuff I can't unsee. See, mostly has to do with poor high, you know, poor hygiene. We'll call it not getting in there and cleansing your scalp really well. But not many people actually have dandruff. So let's say someone, a listener on the show has dandruff. Would you go and get a Head and Shoulders with zinc perithione? Would you get like a Celson Blue with selenium dioxide? I think it is. Would you get Nizoral? What would you get?

[Sarah Bellum]

I mean, I have very limited experience with these products. And when I worked at a hair care company, we did not make medicated shampoo. I will say I personally have used Head and Shoulders. I had like a. I don't know, I was taking some medication that made my scalp super itchy. So I did use Head and Shoulders and for me, within like a week it was so much better. But that's, you know, sort of a one off experience. You know, to me, Head and Shoulders is sort of the tried and true in the category. Right. They're the category leader in that medicated shampoo space. I don't have a ton of experience. I don't know. What are your thoughts on those products?

[Valerie George]

I've tried both and to me Selson Blue is like a dude product. It just feels like not something that someone with a lot of hair would want to use.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah. And that's totally accurate.

[Valerie George]

So I feel like from that respect, expect Head and Shoulders, they really cater to like also improving the look and feel of hair, not just the scalp.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

So I like it for that reason. And now they have different scents. Before it just used to be like the OG Head and Shoulders and now you could get an apple scent or something like that.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah, they've done a. They've definitely worked to sort of beautify Head and Shoulders from the very like functional product that it once was to a more sort of beauty driven dandruff shampoo. I would definitely agree with that.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. And Mr. Cosmetic Chemist, I know we're talking about like best shampoos for women. He uses Nizoral, which also I think is really just like scalp medication delivery focus. So if I were ym a female, but if I had his scalp issues and you know, get. Well, I mean, given I have a lot of hair, basically, if you have a lot of hair, I probably would also recommend something, you know, in addition to take care of your hair because I think that stuff can make your hair feel really not great.

[Sarah Bellum]

Right, right. Because there was even. I don't. And again, I. It's been a while, but there's the. Remember the Neutrogena, like tea Gel, I think she was it the tea.

[Valerie George]

Tea shampoo with the coal tar?

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes. I don't know if that's still on the market, but that stuff, I feel like that's like my dad had that, you know, and it felt like super drying product on your scalp.

[Valerie George]

I have done some work for another brand that makes a coal tar shampoo and it's not an active I mentioned because I mean to me it's just so repulsive. But I think men like it particularly because when I actually worked, I helped a company reformulate their coal tar shampoo. They actually had some scale up challenges and stuff and so I fixed it for them. And when I was interviewing, you know, the workers at the company, like, I mean, it smells like diesel. Okay.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes. Yeah. That's like a very pleasant. No, it's not pleasant.

[Valerie George]

No. But they loved it because they're like, oh, it reminds me of like working on my car or like being in the garage with my dad as a kid. A lot of them use it on their beard to get rid of like the beard skin issues that men have. So very popular in the men's category. Incredibly effective. Yeah, incredibly effective. Yeah. The other anti dandruff active that I'm honestly not a fan of is salicylic acid.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes.

[Valerie George]

I just don't think those products work as well as zinc pthione in my experience.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. You know, I don't have personal experience with those products but just knowing how those ingredients work, you know, it just, it kind of makes sense. Yeah. Head and shoulders again, I mean, kind of like Pantene, they're both PNG products and I think have, they know what they're doing, they have good R D, they make good hair care products. And I don't know, I think they're just, it's, it's hard to beat them, particularly on a blind basis from a consumer perception, you know, perspective.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. I feel like I'm gonna have to try Mr. Cosmetic Chemist is going to kill me. But I feel like I want to expand my horizons a little bit more because I always recommend these products.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

And get some like new favorites.

[Sarah Bellum]

Oh, all right. Well, now you've inspired me. I'm going to like go to Ulta and check out, you know, I just kind of go and buy what I'm used to buying. But you know, I think I, I experiment in other categories, but hair care, I kind of just go with what works. So now I'm feeling inspired to try something new.

[Valerie George]

Cool. Well, summer is coming, so always Good to try some new stuff.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah, totally.

[Valerie George]

I know we talked SPF a little bit last time, but is there anything new you're using? Because it is important to use SPF every day, but particularly in summer.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes.

[Valerie George]

And so I wanted to know if anything new was in your rotation.

[Sarah Bellum]

You know, I got an opportunity to try a product that I'm really liking. I actually put some on today. It's from elta, Maryland. It's their face sunscreen and it's their color correcting sunscreen, which, you know, the color correcting products, I don't think, you know, I don't think they work that great. But if had. This product is a really nice feel. It is a mineral based sunscreen, but goes on really nicely. You don't get sort of that chalky white cast that sometimes you get with a, you know, mineral based sunscreen. I'm a fan. I've been using it regularly and it has some like, skin sort of treatment properties as well. So it's hydrating as well, obviously as SPF and a little bit of color correction. So that's been my newest product. I love the Supergoop glow screen product, but I've been using the ELTA MD product lately. So those are kind of my two favorites.

[Valerie George]

ELTA MD is an old favorite of mine, but I just, unless Supergoop has changed formulations, I just can't get behind the texture. I just don't like the way it feels on my skin.

[Sarah Bellum]

The viscosity is a little weird. Like it's a little runny. I love it because it kind of. I have, it has a little like cosmetic benefit. So it makes my skin a little glowy and a little bit of coverage. So I love it. But the tech, the viscosity of it's a little off. Like I feel like sometimes the bottle explodes when I open it. Like it runs on my fingers. The Eltamd product to me is a perfect consistency. It's not too thick like some sunscreens could be, but it's not a super, like, you know, runny fluid as well. So I'm, I'm a fan. I've only been. I've been using it for like two or three weeks and it's definitely going to be in the rotation. Valerie, how about you using.

[Valerie George]

I gotta get back to the ELTA md. I've recommended it on the show for years because I love it. It's lightweight, it feels great. And it's just one that, I mean, I have. So I've used so many other sunscreens since I last used it because, you know, we get free products for testing and stuff. And I literally, yesterday was just like, my Murad sunscreen's almost empty. And I. I want to go back to something I love and. And, yeah, I think I should put that back in my rotation. I just finished the Alicia Keys sunscreen, which was actually a gift to me from the developers who made her line, and I actually kind of liked it. It was kind of waxy, but I liked it because I touch my face a lot and it reminded me, do not touch your face.

[Sarah Bellum]

Was it like a little sticky or tacky then when you touched it?

[Valerie George]

No, it felt like I had a little wax layer on my skin.

[Sarah Bellum]

Interesting, huh?

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Which I think, you know, was a great reminder, like, get your hands off your chin. Because you could always tell based on, like, the little, you know, blackheads and clogged pores where I put my hand on my face.

[Sarah Bellum]

Is the Alicia Keys. Is it a mineral based sunscreen? Like, what's the active?

[Valerie George]

I actually think it is a combo, if I recall. So it has a little, you know, zinc oxide TiO2 in has, I think, some chemical filters. And this is going off memory, so I could be wrong. But I also liked it because it was in an airless tube, which means it's a tube that has a pump.

[Sarah Bellum]

Right.

[Valerie George]

And as you pump it, the tube gets really flat and evacuated. That's one of my favorite packaging component types.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes, yes, I would agree with that. Because if it doesn't do that, you get a lot of product at the bottom that you can never get out. So the airless tube is nice and it doses it. Yeah, yeah.

[Valerie George]

And I also was thinking I could go back to this biossance mineral sunscreen that I used to use, but I don't know, it just doesn't feel inspiring. Maybe I could try Ulta MD again. Or maybe there's just some new recommendations. You know, we'll ask for an inspiration. Instagram.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah, well, this ELTA MD is their newest. I mean, they've obviously had these sunscreens for a long time. Yes. But this is a newer variant and it's, you know, they're sort of touting these sort of skin treatment benefits, which I do feel like I notice when I use it, it feels more like a skin treatment cream or like a lotion and less like a sunscreen. So you might want to give it a try. Valerie, it's it. I'd recommend it.

[Valerie George]

All right. And I'll sneak it in the house. So, yeah, that's Right.

[Sarah Bellum]

It's small. It's small. You just. He won't even notice.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so the other thing is, do you wear. So I wear spf, like, you know, the cream. Do you believe in SPF foundations or what do you use? Do you. Do you wear makeup? Because I know makeup is good to block visible light, which contributes to. To pigmentation.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes, I love makeup. I will say that's my, like, passion category and where I experiment the most. I was, like, I wanted to wear makeup, like, when I was, like, 10 years old. You know, my mom, she made me wait a little bit, but I just always. I always love makeup, so. And I have some redness in my skin, so I'm a little, like, conscientious of covering it up. But I also don't want to use a heavy foundation. I actually really like IT Cosmetics CC Cream, which is like a.

[Valerie George]

Okay.

[Sarah Bellum]

You know, it has spf. Now, I would say in terms of SPF and foundation, you have to put a lot of foundation on to get, like, enough spf. So that's why I still. I don't rely on foundation for spf. I wear SPF under my foundation and put that on top. Now, IT Cosmetics has, I think, a 30 SPF. And then obviously it's a coverage like a foundation, but it also has sort of a. There must be some, like, mica in there or something. There's like, a little bit of, like, a glowy aspect to the product.

[Valerie George]

I have, like, that one. I've tried that one before, and, yeah, it was just. I mean, obviously, I think it's for mature, more mature skin. And I tried it when it first came out, and I was just like, it's not the texture I like.

[Sarah Bellum]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, a lot of it is texture, right? Like, I like it because I feel like it goes on easily. Listen, this foundation feels like. Doesn't spread well, so you really have to work hard to blend it. To me, the IT Cosmetics CC Cream blends well, and I like that. It makes my feel. My skin feel a little more luminous, especially here in the winter in Chicago. It's so dry. Like, I definitely am looking for, like, any sort of glow aspect I can and any extra hydration because my skin gets so dry here in the winter. In the summer, I'm a little less apt to use it because, you know, my skin's already a little more glowy because of the humidity, So I don't need that as much. But that's. That's probably one of my favorite Products. And then if I want a true foundation, I use l' Oreal Infallible.

[Valerie George]

L' Oreal Infallible.

[Sarah Bellum]

Okay. Yeah. And I used Dior. I've used nars. I've used a lot of the high end products. I think l' Oreal does a nice job. I mean, the challenge with a lot of, like, buying foundation at Target or Walmart is you can't test the shade prior to purchase.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Sarah Bellum]

So once you find your shade, there's not a big difference. I mean, in l' Oreal, they make Lancome Foundation. You know, there's, you know, they're using similar formulas across brands. It's just the challenge of finding the right shade for your skin. And I think the l' Oreal product has SPF too. I can't. I can't recall. But like I said, I still. I don't think unless you wear a lot of foundation, I don't think you're getting enough SPF just from foundation.

[Valerie George]

Now my problem with makeup is I. I just, I want to experiment with it.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

But I just, you know, I'm not like, I got a D in art in eighth grade, and I'm just not, like, good with, like, the visual aspect because a lot of makeup is, like, knowing the right placement and.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes, yes.

[Valerie George]

And all that kind of stuff. And I just get, like, nervous. I bought a lot of makeup that I've never used, and, you know, I do actually want to wear more foundation, but my problem is coverage. And so I've been using the beauty blender. They have this, like, little foundation fluid, and I put a little bit in my sunscreen sometimes just to help because I have a lot of rosacea. And I have a little issue right now where I'm getting, like a huge rosacea flare up and my face is just so red. But I don't want coverage. So without spending a ton of money, do you have any recommendations that I could try where it's like, light coverage but I look healthy and not inflamed?

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah. I mean, it's a tr. It's a balance because I have that similar issue. I have rosacea in my cheeks, and I don't want to have a full face of makeup on on the regular. So like, to me, a BB or CC cream. And I actually, with the ELTA MD sunscreen that has the color correcting and then putting like a lighter. And even if you tried like a tinted moisturizer, like I used to, like the Laura Mercier tinted moisturizer, I think it's exciting. Expensive. Yeah, but it does a nice job of giving you a little bit of coverage without feeling, like, overly made up. And it kind of tamps down some of the, you know, the, the redness, you know, from rosacea or even just, you know, being hot in the summer, just kind of, you know, toning that down. But I, I mean, last time I bought a Valerie, I think it was like $50. The Laura.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Sarah Bellum]

Moisturizer, which is pricey.

[Valerie George]

So see, on hair, I have no problem spending money.

[Sarah Bellum]

See, that's so funny. I'm the opposite.

[Valerie George]

Like skin care, I'll spend a little bit of money, not a ton. But makeup, I'm like, come on, guys.

[Sarah Bellum]

No, that's so funny. I'm the opposite. But I definitely do a high, low strategy with makeup. I have Elf, I have Maybelline, I have l' Oreal, but I have Nars and, you know, Laura Mercier, and, you know, some of the high end brands do. I just. I don't know. I am like a makeup junkie. And I just love going to Sephora and looking at all the pretty products. And so it's definitely my, it's definitely my weakness. Valerie's makeup. Valerie, have you, have you tried the Elf brand in terms of. Because they do a lot of dupes of high end products.

[Valerie George]

Okay.

[Sarah Bellum]

So I don't know if you're a fan of Elf, but I think they do a really nice job. And in particular, like, Charlotte Tilbury has this, like, I think it's called like Halo filter or Glow Filler. And it's like a illuminizer for highlighting. You know, if you do it, if you're into contouring or whatever. But it's like 50 or $55 an elf.

[Valerie George]

Oh, Charlotte Tilbury is expensive. I didn't realize very expensive. They were until we got questions from fans. And I'm like, they have this magic cream. I'm like, what?

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah. Yes, it's expensive. I'll be honest. I mean, I've used some of their products. They're fine. You know, I wouldn't buy them personally. I. I've used prestige makeup that I think is better just in terms of packaging and quality. Like, I don't know. But this, this Glow product they have is sort of one of their, like, iconic products. And Elf has a dupe called their Halo. I think it's Halo Glow and it's like packaged the same.

[Valerie George]

Oh, wow.

[Sarah Bellum]

14. I mean, it's. I think it's a great product. And it's a liquid highlighter product that you sort of dab on almost like you are applying a concealer. And I kind of put it like where I want a little glow like on my cheeks and my nose. And I like it. And I also like their. And they just, they're doing lip oils which like Christian Dior has their whole line of lip oil, like you know, 30 or $40 for a little lip oil. And ELFs are like $8. And I don't know. I think Elf does a nice job if you're looking to experiment in beauty and cosmetics but don't want to spend a ton of money, especially if you're not sure you're going to like something. Elf, I think is at a great price point, super accessible. So I'm a fan and they're doing a good job of sort of duping sort of these iconic prestige products.

[Valerie George]

Oh, I didn't realize. I mean I knew E L F was like a more entry price point makeup brand. And I would say I tried some of their products many years ago when the brand first kind of hit big in Target. And I don't recall this product though. And maybe they came out with it more recently.

[Sarah Bellum]

This is new. And honestly I was looking at some research just like IRI data of cosmetics and across mass brands, ELF is significantly outperforming pretty much everybody in the mass makeup category. And I think it's because they're doing a great job of sort of hitting the, the trends that are happening in prestige and higher. You know, sort of these high end products at an accessible price point. And I do think they've evolved, Valerie, since when they first launched because I remember trying them again when they first came to Target. I wasn't overly impressed. But I come back to them in the past year and I've been really happy. I have some fun lip oils. I have the Halo highlighter.

[Valerie George]

Okay.

[Sarah Bellum]

And the eyeshadow, they have the eyeshadow cream. So sticks, which I really like. And you know, I used to use the Laura Mercier and the Bobbi brown cream eyeshadow sticks, you know, and again, those are 25 $30 for a little eyeshadow stick. And you know, they, I like them, but the Elf works just as well and it's 10 bucks. So.

[Valerie George]

So okay. On the Halo glow liquid filter, I want to come back to the eyeshadows in a second because literally last week I also share it in a second. But on the Halo glow liquid filter. So if I use like a SPF with zinc oxide and titanium dioxide.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

And I needed to put a little color back the Halo Glow liquid filter. I would just put it in the spots. I want a little dimension back on my face.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah. I mean, it's more of a highlighter, so it's not giving you. Now, they do have different shades. I kind of use their neutral shade, because I don't. I use a bronzer for color. But if you want that, like, a little bit of glow, the challenge is, you know, you have to be have a light hand, or else at least your face gets a little shiny looking. It's easy to use. It's like a wand applicator, so you can really just highlight those areas that you want a little extra glow.

[Valerie George]

All right.

[Sarah Bellum]

I think it's worth a try. Like I said, it's a very affordable price point. And I had a sample of the Charlotte Tilbury product, and to me, I couldn't tell the difference. Like, in a blind test, I don't think I could tell a difference.

[Valerie George]

And, yeah, you're trained in evaluation, so that's awesome. Okay, so I'll give that a try. And for 14 bucks, it can't hurt.

[Sarah Bellum]

Right.

[Valerie George]

And I'll probably watch a YouTube video on it. But going back to eyeshadows, literally, a couple weeks ago, maybe even a couple months ago, I got some prototypes from a cosmetic pigment supplier for a cream eyeshadow stick. And I was like, man, when I was in high school, I used to wear cream eyeshadow all the time. High school and college, because it was so easy to apply.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes.

[Valerie George]

And you just have to be careful it doesn't crease, but.

[Sarah Bellum]

Right.

[Valerie George]

They've been harder to find in the last, like, 10 years. And so I've just been kind of going back to, like, powder eyeshadow, But I don't know. Just, like, doesn't feel great. And I really. I'm like, a cream blush person.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah. I like cream products in general as well. So I'm with you.

[Valerie George]

Okay, so E L F has some cream eyeshadows.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes. And they're in the stick format. And I think the stick format is making a comeback. I've been seeing a lot more of it. I have the Elf ones. I also have some from Mac, actually. I will say the Mac eyeshadow sticks. There's a lot of color variety. Elf, I think, just has a few. Like, that's my only issue with Elf is I, you know, they just have a few neutral shades. Mac has a better shade selection, but that's kind of what they're known for, too, is, you know, eyeshadow. They have every color that's a Shadow known to them. Yeah, exactly. So I have some of the Mac eyeshadow sticks as well. But like, I remember using the cream ones in high school and they would crease so bad. The aesthetics of these products have gotten better. Like, I don't have trouble with the creasing as much. I remember I would come home and there would just be like a crease of eyeshadow, like where I know I.

[Valerie George]

Would check the whole day. Like, I still do it now where I just rub my eyelid cream crease even though I'm not wearing eyeshadow. Or even if I wear powdered eyeshadow because I'm like so paranoid about the line.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yes, yes. I feel I find that the product aesthetics have gotten better. They don't crease as bad. And sometimes, you know what I do before, here's a little insider tip, is I'll take my setting powder and I put a little bit of powder on my eyelid before I put the cream on. So it helps prevent creasing as well. So, you know. All right, insider, Insider tip. Valerie.

[Valerie George]

I don't have setting powder, but I'm sure ELF has one. If I went to Target.

[Sarah Bellum]

Yeah, I do. I will say I use the Laura Mercier setting powder. And this is why I did at my previous company. I had to do some media. So I went through some media training and they were like, your face is so shiny. All the people, like, at the new whatever, the new station, they all use Laura Mercier setting powder to reduce, like the shine. So I was like, well, I better, I better get this product so. And it lasts forever, Valerie. But it's a very, very fine powder. Yeah, yeah, that's what I was told. It's like all the people on the news or whatever, so they don't have shiny skin wear Laura Mercier setting powder.

[Valerie George]

Oh, my goodness. Well, thank you so much for the tips. Yeah, I'm just not a makeup experimenter and like I said, it's a very nerve wracking experience for me. But I'll give them a try and report back.

[Sarah Bellum]

You should. And I just saw the other day and this is again, I saw this on Instagram, Valerie. But an AI that can takes a picture of your face and then tells you how to apply makeup, like where you should put the products based on your features. I haven't tried it. I'm gonna ask, did you try it first? I think I'm gonna have to try it.

[Valerie George]

That.

[Sarah Bellum]

That would be hilarious because I remember trying one of those apps and this is several years ago, obviously AI and technology is so much better. But it was like some makeup try on app and it was just terrible. I look like a clown. It was, like, ridiculous. So I haven't tried any since. But I do feel like as I get older, I should change how I wear my makeup. And I haven't. You know, I really haven't changed my makeup strategy since I was younger. So I'm. I'm thinking of trying this and I'll report back to see if it actually works because I'm skeptical but curious.

[Valerie George]

Please let me know because, yeah, that's the. I mean, I'm talking about products I used 20 years ago, and I'm like, they are so amazing. And you're right, technology's come a long way. You know, we're getting older, we've lost fat in our face, our skin hits in different spots. We have a lot more hyperpigmentation that we. We used to have to. And so, yeah, you have to change the makeup strategy. I actually just saw a. It's related to hair color, but the actress from Gilmore Girls.

[Sarah Bellum]

Oh, One of my favorite shows of all time.

[Valerie George]

Who's the lead actress, Alec? Oh.

[Sarah Bellum]

Oh, yeah. Alex. Alexis. Alexis, right.

[Valerie George]

Yes. Okay, her. There was a picture of her with, like, really light orange blonde hair almost. And I was just like, gosh, who is that actress? And I couldn't recognize her. I mean, she looked in her 50s in this photo. And the Instagram story was like, you know, the wrong hair color can really age you. And so they did some AI manipulation to her color to show that actually for her skin color and where she's at with her skin, slightly darker or even more, like, cool would have been, like, a better, better fit for her. And it literally took 10 years off of her. It was really incredible. So, yeah, yeah, same with makeup. Exactly. So please let me know how it works.

[Sarah Bellum]

Thank you. I will.

[Valerie George]

Well, there's the music. Thank you so much for joining me today. Hopefully you guys enjoyed Product talk. Perry will be back next week. He can't do too much joggling with his knee. Um, thanks for listening, everyone. If you can get a chance, please head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us for a review that's going to help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer. Speaking of questions, we love other voices on the show. It's why I invited Sarah today. Just record one on your smartphone and email it to thebeautybrainsmail.com or just use the form in the show. Notes of this episode don't forget to follow us on our various social media accounts. On Instagram 2008 on X worth of beauty brains. On Blue sky, worth of beauty brains, we have a Facebook page and a Tik Tok. All right, well, thanks again for listening, everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[Sarah Bellum]

Kittens.