Exfoliation, Beef Tallow and a baby - episode 403

Summary

Podcast Title: The Beauty Brains
Episode: Exfoliation, Beef Tallow and a Baby - Episode 403
Release Date: August 8, 2025

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Overview

In Episode 403 of The Beauty Brains, host Perry Romanoski and returning co-host Valerie George delve into pressing beauty industry topics, including the controversial Safe Safer Beauty Bill, the resurgence of beef tallow in skincare products, and address listener questions on hair breakage, exfoliation methods, and rinse-free shampoos. Valerie’s return is marked by personal updates about her new baby, adding a heartfelt dimension to the episode.

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Beauty News: Safe Safer Beauty Bill

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the newly introduced Safe Safer Beauty Bill, a four-part federal legislative initiative aimed at enhancing cosmetic safety and transparency. Perry and Valerie critically analyze the bill's implications for the beauty industry.

Redundancy and Practicality: Valerie George expresses skepticism about the necessity of the bill, highlighting its overlap with existing state regulations, particularly those from California. She states,

“A lot of it is repeated from the state of California, which I think the EWG was involved. This looks like an EWG list to me” [07:40].

Impact on Products: The hosts discuss how the bill's stringent restrictions could make many popular products non-compliant, potentially eliminating essential items like mineral-based sunscreens. Valerie notes,

“Maybe even sunscreens wouldn’t comply with this. So I think mineral based sunscreen” [08:06].

Scientific Basis Concerns: Both Perry and Valerie criticize the bill for lacking a solid scientific foundation, suggesting it is driven more by perception than evidence. Valerie remarks,

“They clearly don't understand the science behind it” [09:57].

Legislative Hurdles: Predicting the bill's future, Perry mentions,

“I don't see this bill going very far” [10:58],
while Valerie concurs, emphasizing the current political climate’s resistance to additional regulation.

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Beauty News: Martha Stewart's Beauty Line Launch

The episode also covers Martha Stewart’s unexpected venture into the beauty industry with her new personal care line at the age of 84. The hosts evaluate the potential impact and effectiveness of her products.

Product Details and Pricing: Valerie highlights the premium pricing of Martha Stewart’s products, including an elemental serum priced at $135 and a daily skin supplement at $50, stating,

“They have the elemental serum for 135 bucks and the daily skin supplement for $50” [14:53].

Critical Reception: Perry expresses doubts about the innovation and value of the products, stating,

“I don't believe it's revolutionary” [14:43].
Valerie adds,
“I'm just not excited. You know, they're probably expensive, overpriced” [14:36].

Market Positioning: The hosts discuss the potential niche appeal of Martha Stewart’s line, questioning whether it offers genuine benefits beyond celebrity endorsement.

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Listener Questions

1. Product Buildup and Hair Breakage

Question from Sophia: Sophia asks whether product buildup causes hair breakage, especially in fine hair, and if heavy products are detrimental.

Expert Response: Perry and Valerie explain that heavy products, such as V05 Hairdressing (composed of petrolatum and mineral oil), do not inherently cause hair breakage. Instead, these products provide lubrication that can prevent damage. Perry states,

“If it was causing a lot of hair breakage and damage, it wouldn't enjoy the cult following that it continues to have” [15:55].

Valerie adds,

“The more lubrication you have, the less that [hair] breakage happens” [17:45].

They clarify that product buildup typically refers to sebum, skin cells, and residual products remaining on the hair, mostly around the scalp, which can weigh hair down but does not directly cause breakage.

2. Exfoliation: Mechanical vs. Chemical

Question from Sophia: Sophia also inquires whether mechanical exfoliation using a soft silicone scrubber is better than chemical exfoliants.

Expert Response: Valerie recommends chemical exfoliants for deeper and more effective exfoliation, stating,

“If you want to go for real exfoliation where you're actually loosening the cells, I would go with the chemical exfoliant” [21:14].

Perry concurs, noting that while silicone scrubbers can effectively remove loose dead skin cells, chemical exfoliants penetrate deeper layers and offer more comprehensive results.

3. Sunscreens: Facial vs. Body

Question from Sophia: Sophia’s second question pertains to the difference between facial and body sunscreens.

Expert Response: Valerie explains that while the active ingredients in facial and body sunscreens are similar, facial sunscreens are formulated with user experience in mind, focusing on texture and sensory aspects. She mentions,

“From a user experience, facial sunscreens are probably taking into consideration the texture and sensory aspect” [23:36].

Perry adds that facial sunscreens are designed to feel less greasy and spread more easily on the limited surface area of the face. Valerie further notes that facial sunscreens may contain additional beneficial ingredients like vitamins, which are unnecessary in body sunscreens.

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4. Beef Tallow Facial Creams

Question from Lydia: Lydia asks about the growing trend of beef tallow-based facial creams and other products in the market.

Expert Response: Valerie shares her initial skepticism but acknowledges the historical usage of beef tallow in skincare. She states,

“Beef tallow is coming out” [26:33],
and explains that beef tallow is rich in fatty acids similar to sunflower oil, making it an effective moisturizer.

Valerie shares her positive experience with a beef tallow nipple cream, saying,

“I like it a lot. I would probably purchase it” [27:06].

Safety Concerns: The hosts discuss the decline in tallow usage following the mad cow disease scare in the 1990s. Perry reassures listeners about modern safety measures, noting that tallow is primarily a fatty acid and not the prion protein responsible for mad cow disease, thereby minimizing health risks.

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5. Rinse-Free Shampoo

Question from Lisa: Lisa seeks alternatives to traditional shampoo for her bedridden mother, specifically inquiring about rinse-free options.

Expert Response: Perry and Valerie evaluate the ingredients of the proposed rinse-free shampoo, pointing out that it contains mild detergents like sodium C14-16 olefin sulfonate and disodium cocoamphodiacetate. Perry compares it to micellar water, suggesting it would likely cause minimal irritation if used sparingly.

Valerie expresses skepticism about the effectiveness of rinse-free shampoos in thoroughly cleansing the scalp, emphasizing the necessity of water in traditional shampooing. Perry adds,

“It's kind of funny in our industry when something is way niche, you just say, oh, this would be great for camping. That means nobody's gonna buy it” [34:03],
highlighting the limited practicality of such products.

They suggest that while rinse-free shampoos can help manage odor, they are not a complete substitute for traditional shampoos, which effectively remove oils and product residues.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Perry Romanoski and Valerie George provide insightful and scientifically grounded perspectives on current beauty industry trends and consumer queries. From legislative developments to ingredient trends and practical beauty concerns, their expertise offers listeners valuable information to make informed decisions about their beauty routines.

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Notable Quotes

• Valerie George on the Safe Safer Beauty Bill:
  “A lot of it is repeated from the state of California, which I think the EWG was involved. This looks like an EWG list to me” [07:40].

• Valerie George on Hair Product Buildup:
  “The more lubrication you have, the less that [hair] breakage happens” [17:45].

• Valerie George on Exfoliation:
  “If you want to go for real exfoliation where you're actually loosening the cells, I would go with the chemical exfoliant” [21:14].

• Valerie George on Facial vs. Body Sunscreens:
  “From a user experience, facial sunscreens are probably taking into consideration the texture and sensory aspect” [23:36].

• Valerie George on Beef Tallow Trends:
  “Beef tallow is coming out” [26:33].

• Valerie George on Using Beef Tallow Products:
  “I like it a lot. I would probably purchase it” [27:06].

• Perry Romanoski on Rinse-Free Shampoo:
  “It's kind of funny in our industry when something is way niche, you just say, oh, this would be great for camping. That means nobody's gonna buy it” [34:03].

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For more insights and to stay updated with The Beauty Brains, subscribe to their YouTube channel and follow them on social media platforms including Instagram, X, Blue Sky, Facebook, and TikTok.

Be brainy about your beauty!

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Transcript

[Perry Romanoski]

Hi, I'm Perry and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Hello and welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 403. I'm your host, Perry Romanoski and I'm not solo today because Valerie George is back. Hello, Valerie.

[Valerie George]

Hi, Perry.

[Perry Romanoski]

You know, since Valerie is still taking care of the little one, we're going to make this a slightly shorter episode. But we will be covering some of your questions that we have a big backlog, so we'll get to those in the next show. But we got a bunch here today and those include does product buildup cause breakage in hair is a chemical exfoliant better than a soft silicone scrubber? What are your thoughts about beef tallow facial creams? And are rinse free shampoos any good. But first, Valerie, you're back. It's just been. It's less than a month. But you're back.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, it's a few weeks, but you know, I missed you guys. And so I said, let's come back. I had a baby boy. Baby C, we'll call him. And he's so sweet. He hardly cries. Hardly. Meaning I've only ever heard him cry once. And that was because I actually accidentally bopped him on the head.

[Perry Romanoski]

But wait, so you're not gonna call him? You're not gonna call him? Baby cosmetic chemist?

[Valerie George]

Well, that's what Baby C is short for.

[Perry Romanoski]

Okay, gotcha. Baby C. Baby C, exactly.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Yeah. But he's the sweetest thing. He's so kind. And you know, it's important to talk to babies to keep them engaged. And when we first had him, guess what I said to him?

[Perry Romanoski]

Anti disestablishmentarianism.

[Valerie George]

No. Hi, I'm Valerie and you're listening to the Beady Brains. Because he heard us record so many episodes when he was in my belly and when I start talking like that, he calms down right away. He loves my voice. He turns his head when I walk in the room and say something and yeah, he just. He likes to hear me talk. So I give him the Beauty Brains opening spiel. So sometimes cuz he doesn't know what I'm saying and sure he likes it and he just.

[Perry Romanoski]

Just hears the tone. So yeah, that's. Well, that's very cool. And you look, you look like you feel better.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Oh gosh. He was very big also early. So he was poised to be bigger. And yeah, I feel, you know, I'm still recovering. It's very hard to have a baby. I also have a C section, full disclosure. So that's another thing on its own that's very difficult to recover from. And there's a lot of stuff they don't tell you about what happens after you deliver.

[Perry Romanoski]

So they want people to keep having babies, right?

[Valerie George]

That's what they told me. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm just doing the best I can and trying to enjoy all the moments.

[Perry Romanoski]

I think there's like some evolutionary significance to like pregnancy forgetting. Like you, you kind of forget all that stuff. That way you're primed to have another one.

[Valerie George]

I'm not forgetting that stuff. I am not forgetting.

[Perry Romanoski]

Well, we'll check back in a few years. So your schedule is what, like nine to five now? The baby sleeps through the night.

[Valerie George]

Oh goodness. Well, he actually, because he's bigger, he actually sleeps pretty well. But I mean, he's not sleeping through the night. He's still just a few weeks old. But Mr. Cosmetic Chemist stays up until 2 to 2:30. And then I get up at 2 to 2:30 and take over. So my day pretty much starts very early. And I just tell myself, you know what? It's like you're on European time.

[Perry Romanoski]

Sure, yeah, it works fine.

[Valerie George]

And the only problem is I have to go to bed really early.

[Perry Romanoski]

So that is a problem. So we'll try to get the show in earlier.

[Valerie George]

Well, I'm glad to be back. So what have you been up to? I know we've like been texting, but you're always on the go.

[Perry Romanoski]

I've been traveling a bunch. I did a road trip to New Jersey. The Jersey shore. The beaches there are very nice. Although, you know, they charge you to go on the beach, which seems kind of weird to me.

[Valerie George]

Oh yeah. I mean, I thought that was public property.

[Perry Romanoski]

No, but I guess it's, you know, pays for the lifeguards and the cleanup. So I can see it here in Chicago. No charge to go to the beaches.

[Valerie George]

Well, I could see paying for the parking, which would cover that stuff. But to actually pay to go on the sand I think is interesting, right?

[Perry Romanoski]

Well, I think a lot of people walk up there, so.

[Valerie George]

Oh yeah, but.

[Perry Romanoski]

But it was very nice, like a family reunion, which was lots of fun. And then this weekend I did my 150 mile bike ride in support of MS, the charity raising money for Ms. Research. It's a great charity. And you know, I hadn't ridden a bike in probably nine or 10 months.

[Valerie George]

I was gonna say, don't you do this ride Every year.

[Perry Romanoski]

Well, I didn't. The last time I did it was 2022, so it's been like two years. But yeah, I don't regularly ride a bike. I'm always a little nervous in the city. You're riding your bike and you could easily get hit by a car.

[Valerie George]

Very easily. Yeah. Especially in Chicago.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. So I don't ride my bike a lot, but it turns out my legs from the running is still good enough to. To ride the bike.

[Valerie George]

So I was going to ask how your knees doing?

[Perry Romanoski]

You know what the knee was? The knee was fine. It was very, very strange. I still have to go to pt, but I haven't made an appointment yet. I mean, what if it just goes away on its own because it kind of is getting better?

[Valerie George]

I mean, probably not going to happen.

[Perry Romanoski]

Probably not, you know, else is not going to happen. Our first story in Beauty News Foreign, there's one that one story is making the rounds all over the news, at least in the cosmetic industry. And this is the Safe, Safer Beauty Bill. Actually, it's like four different bills that are supposed to target cosmetic safety. I don't know. Have you seen this one?

[Valerie George]

I have and I have a lot of thoughts about it. I. Well, I think you know this. I'm pretty active in the advocacy space for regulations, mostly at the state level, not the federal level.

[Perry Romanoski]

Sure.

[Valerie George]

So I have seen this and I do have some thoughts.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. Well, it looks like this was introduced by somebody from Illinois, somebody from Texas, California, Massachusetts, so some of the bigger states. And it's a four part federal legislative initiative designed to address the, theoretically the ongoing safety and transparency concerns of the beauty industry. Now we just had Mocra, which was passed in 2022, which was supposed to address all of this, but apparently these legislators don't think enough was done.

[Valerie George]

The reason I think I agree with you, this bill is going to have a lot of difficulty passing because first of all, there are some frameworks in place to make products safe, safe. So having additional frameworks that differ from what the states are doing, because a lot of the states have actually enacted some of this stuff, you know, like banning lead, formaldehyde. This is a very difficult thing to do. And if you look at the first bill, which is the actual Toxic Free Beauty act, which is what they've called it, HR4433, they have a list of chemicals that California actually has restricted as well.

[Perry Romanoski]

Okay.

[Valerie George]

And it's very difficult, I think, to duplicate this at a federal level. First of all, some of these are already restricted in Certain applications like formaldehyde, mercury and mercury compounds are actually already banned at a federal level. So I'm not sure what good it would do using these. And then you have Lilleol, which is actually a trade name, not a chemical.

[Perry Romanoski]

Name that's a component of fragrances.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. Cyclotetrasiloxane, which is restricted in California now. And then we have O phenylene diamine, M phenylene diamine. Two hair colorants that aren't really used anymore. So triclosan is another one. Toluene. No one's using cosmetics. Yeah. Then they have things that aren't banned per se, but contaminants that are restricted. So saying lead and lead compounds above 2 ppm for color cosmetics, there's no way a company could comply with that.

[Perry Romanoski]

Right. Unless they're not gonna offer. Well, that just means certain colors wouldn't be offered anymore.

[Valerie George]

Many colors wouldn't be offered. Like anything that's foundation or skin colored would never, never comply with this. Maybe even sunscreens wouldn't comply with this. So I think mineral based sunscreen. So I just think a lot of it is repeated from the state of California, which I think the EWG was involved. This looks like an EWG list to me, to be honest.

[Perry Romanoski]

It does, yeah. They also put in there the formaldehyde donor preservatives. Just ban those outright with, you know, this isn't like a safety thing that those things can be used safely. So, you know, this is not the problem with all of this is this is not science based on based legislation. It's. It's. I don't know. So I guess the new, the new code word would be it's vibe legislation or something like it feels like it's dangerous, so let's just ban it.

[Valerie George]

I know it's really disappointing because they clearly don't understand the science behind it. So that's actually what I do on the state level is I try to create education to the legislators about why this stuff is silly and how it sets a precedent for future restrictions that also don't make sense at all.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah, I look at this and you know, there's cosmetic safety protections for communities of color. Salon Workers act, which is looking at the FDA oversight for synthetic hair products. What is it that's probably regulated now? What, by EPA or osha?

[Valerie George]

Well, OSHA regulates the salon and spa space in terms of the order safety. Yeah. The FDA wouldn't have anything to do with that unless this were an ingredient restriction for those products.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. I'm just thinking like synthetic hair, though, that's, that would not fall under the FDA purview.

[Valerie George]

Oh, the synthetic hair would not at all.

[Perry Romanoski]

Well, I guess this is supposed to make it so that would happen there. Well, you know, looking at this, it's just in committee and considering how our government is now trying to get rid of like all regulations for everything, I don't see this bill going very far. I'm not even sure why it made so much news.

[Valerie George]

It's, it's not even good. Good regulation.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

It's just not.

[Perry Romanoski]

That's, that's the sad part. But the bottom line, in my, in my view, cosmetics are already some of the safest consumer products that you can buy and use. This extra legislation isn't going to help in that regard.

[Valerie George]

Exactly. What I thought was interesting while I was out was this celebrity launch never caught our radar. I'm pretty sure it's never caught our radar. Meaning we would have never, ever, ever predicted this celebrity to create a line. Who is it? Well, you already know.

[Perry Romanoski]

Story. I do already know. Is this a story? At the, at the young, old age of 84, Martha Stewart enters into the anti aging business. I guess. Wow.

[Valerie George]

I would have never predicted her to launch her own product line.

[Perry Romanoski]

I mean, she hasn't probably has a product line for like home care stuff.

[Valerie George]

Well, that stuff. She actually had a huge collection at Kmart in the late 90s, early 2000s. It was actually very cute stuff. Yeah, I meant personal care. I would have never seen her as a beauty icon. Clothing, home care, that kind of stuff for sure. But at the age of 84. Newly 84. Her birthday is August 3rd. Launching her own collection.

[Perry Romanoski]

Wow. I mean, in the pictures they show, she looks pretty good for 84.

[Valerie George]

Well, I think a lot of people look good who have money.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. I was thinking that I was watching the Billy Joel has a documentary on hbo.

[Valerie George]

Okay.

[Perry Romanoski]

And they were, they were interviewing Christie Brinkley and I'm like, she's 74. Wow.

[Valerie George]

I know, I know. Genetics is also part of that. That's for sure.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. My wife said genetics and then having a lot of money helps too.

[Valerie George]

Yes, that helps.

[Perry Romanoski]

So she worked apparently with Hailey Bieber to develop, who has her own brand, which is Rode, which was recently acquired by Elf. So I guess she's going to be doing her own. What does she call it?

[Valerie George]

The name of her line is Elm Biosciences, which, you know, is kind of an interesting name, but she worked with somebody who worked with Hailey Bieber.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. Okay.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, so that's a, that's what happened? At least that's what they say, what happens. So, sure, this is a breakthrough first of its kind system to support skin longevity.

[Perry Romanoski]

Okay. It's, it's, it's not a breakthrough, but. But it is probably a first of its kind because it's the first time Martha Stewart put together something like that.

[Valerie George]

But. Well, actually, they said this is not her first foray into beauty because they're counting her CBD collection that was launched in September 2020 as a beauty line.

[Perry Romanoski]

Is that one's not around anymore or is that.

[Valerie George]

Well, it evolved into something else, I think. And actually who got her into CBD was Snoop Dogg.

[Perry Romanoski]

No kidding. There you go. Yeah.

[Valerie George]

Gee, I'm surprised.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. So what kind of products does this have?

[Valerie George]

I don't really know. Just the launch was announced. The technology is a little vague.

[Perry Romanoski]

I guess more to come. But, you know, if you like Martha Stewart and you like celebrities lines, you know, I'm sure there'll be perfectly fine products. I mean, I probably won't be around in, you know, five years.

[Valerie George]

I'm just not excited. You know, they're probably expensive, overpriced.

[Perry Romanoski]

Right.

[Valerie George]

I don't believe it's revolutionary. Nothing's going to change. You know the game.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

You know, I'm not excited by her dermatologist that did Hailey Bieber's line or consulted on it. You know, I'm just. I'm not excited.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. And they have the elemental serum for 135 bucks and the daily skin supplement for $50.

[Valerie George]

Whoa. Oh, wow. Yeah, there you go.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah, there you go. Well, good luck to you, Martha Stewart. All right, are we ready to get into answering some questions?

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Our first one comes to us from Sophia, a patron on Patreon. Hello. Does product buildup cause hair breakage for fine hair? Would heavy products cause the hair to break?

[Perry Romanoski]

Well, you know what's interesting about this question is the notion of buildup. What does that mean? And the notion of what's a heavy product. We had a product that I worked on a lot in Alberto Culver called V05. V05 Hairdressing. Now, that is just pretty much petrolatum, mineral oil, and a couple of other oils that you put on your head. There's really nothing heavier than that, right?

[Valerie George]

Yeah, it's pretty heavy for hair.

[Perry Romanoski]

Right. And that was a perfectly fine product that has lasted since the 1950s. So if it was causing a lot of hair breakage and damage, it wouldn't enjoy the cult following that it continues to have. So I don't think just Empirically, there's a lot of evidence for products just because they're formulated a certain way, they're going to break hair.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, especially because ingredients like petrolatum or oils actually lubricate the hair fiber, so they would prevent hair from breaking. If anything, I think heavy products would just weigh the hair down and it would be difficult to manipulate. And then if you were increasing mechanical forces on the hair fiber to get it to do what you wanted it to do, then probably you could have some breakage. Because really what causes hair to break is anything that causes stress or strain on the hair fiber from a physics perspective. And the more lubrication you have, the less that that happens. Now, I could see where if you had a really protein heavy product, you could get breakage if you try to manipulate the hair with protein. But just protein being on the hair wouldn't cause your hair to break. You would actually have to physically manipulate it. And I say this because protein is a film former, so it forms a film on the outside of hair. But styling polymers also do the same. So you could put a styling product on your hair and if it's a pretty stiff polymer, and then you try to manipulate your hair with a brush, just the physics of the force and stress on the hair would cause your hair to break. So I really think it's less about heaviness and maybe more about not even build up. We'll address buildup in a second. But having something that makes the hair inflexible, that could cause breakage if you manipulate it.

[Perry Romanoski]

And in fact, a light product, I guess I would say something like a perm solution, right. That would be. Is water thin, it would be very light. But boy, that could cause a lot of hair breakage because it chemically degrades the hair. So that is heavy or light really isn't related to how much it's going to tend to cause the hair to.

[Valerie George]

Break and even build up. If we talk about like what buildup is. Buildup is sebum skin cells, residual product.

[Perry Romanoski]

Maybe leave in conditioner or styling products. The other thing that can be build up, maybe you have silicones that don't wash out of your hair completely, or cationic polymers that can build up on your ha. And it's just essentially leaving stuff on your hair. And if you looked at your hair on a microscope, you might see just see products still left on the hair that hasn't washed out. And that's kind of what buildup is.

[Valerie George]

And most of that buildup, though, I would think would happen More towards the scalp of the hair. The tips of your hair. Yeah. If you're using a product with amodimethicone, which is a positively charged silicone that would stick to your hair, you know, that may get on the mid shaft, the tips, but usually buildup happens around the roots. And the things that typically stick to your hair are things that you would want on your hair to condition it or lubricate it. And so those actually, I would think would combat breakage.

[Perry Romanoski]

Exactly. I would think the same. The one thing that build up does do is it weighs your hair down and it could make it look flat. But again, those things are usually ingredients that are going to protect your hair from breaking rather than causing it itself.

[Valerie George]

Exactly.

[Perry Romanoski]

Valerie, We've had a few people call in on our audio line. Whoa. We actually have a phone number line that you can use, which I put in the show notes. So if you want to just call in and ask a question that works.

[Valerie George]

And don't be scared. We're not going to pick up.

[Perry Romanoski]

That's right, we are. But Ty did that. She said this.

[C]

Hello, Valerie and Perry, we love listening to your show and enjoy reviewing your insights with each other. Thanks for sharing your wisdom and expertise. We get excited when we see a new episode has been released. Two questions. Is it safe to use a soft silicone face scrubber with a mild facial cleanser for exfoliation, or is it better to go with a chemical exfoliant?

[Valerie George]

Well, I think, you know, the best thing to do if you're going for exfoliation is to just use an exfoliant. I think mechanical rubbing of your face is important, and you can get mechanical rubbing actually with just your fingers and a cleanser. Using a silicone scrubber with a cleanser will also do the same thing, but that just kind of removes things that are already loose. So if you have some dead skin cells that are there, but they just kind of need to be rubbed off your face, doing that, whether it's with your fingers or the silicone scrubber, will help that. I think you can overuse. The silicone scrubbers like the clarisonic devices definitely have gotten overused over the years. But I think if you want to go for real exfoliation where you're actually loosening the cells, I would go with the chemical exfoliant. It's probably a much more effective.

[Perry Romanoski]

In my opinion, overall, it's going to be more effective. I agree with you. The. The silicone scrubber and a cleanser, you're really just sticking to the surface. You're not going to be able to get down some of the lower layers where you've got dead skin cells. Just. They'll come up eventually, but it's just more efficient. Here's the second part of the question.

[C]

My second question is, what is the difference between sunscreens for the face and sunscreens for the who? We notice the active ingredients and their amounts are similar. Is there an advantage to using a sunscreen specified for the face? Valerie, we wish you the best for a happy and healthy delivery. Perry, hope your knee is improving and you are back to a full joggling routine. Thank you.

[Perry Romanoski]

Well, that was nice.

[Valerie George]

Thank you for the kind words, Ty. We really appreciate that.

[Perry Romanoski]

And I am almost back to my full joggling routine. At least. I still joggle every day, but it just kind of hurts.

[Valerie George]

And I had a happy and healthy delivery. Still recovering as I mentioned. But yeah, thank you for that.

[Perry Romanoski]

Well, all right. Sunscreens, face and body. What do you got to say for that?

[Valerie George]

I mean, from a formula perspective, I would say if you look at the actual chemicals that are used, they're probably pretty similar, at least from sunscreen actives, film formers.

[Perry Romanoski]

Well, even regulations. Even regulations. At least in the United States and Europe, the same things that you can use on your face, you can use on your body. There's no distinction there.

[Valerie George]

The only thing I could think of is like the haptics perspective. So what does the sunscreen feel like? Like a body sunscreen is no big deal if it's kind of greasy feeling sunscreen. At least the chemical sunscreens are intrinsically oily feeling. So not a problem to put them on your body. Or if it's kind of heavy or waxy, not a big deal. That might not be a texture you want on your face. You may want something that looks less greas. Greasy, feels less greasy. Maybe you don't want the white cast on your face if it's a mineral sunscreen. So I would say if you from a SPF perspective, same thing, but from a user experience, facial sunscreens are probably taking into consideration the texture and sensory aspect.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. They're aesthetically designed to feel better on your face while still working the same. Now you would say, well, why don't you just make the facial one? Why don't you just make that for the full body one? And honestly, it just maybe with a full body one you can. You want to make it where it's going to spread a lot easier.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanoski]

So it can be a little more greasy where you don't want that on your face because your face doesn't have a lot of space to have to spread it so you don't have to make it as greasy.

[Valerie George]

And typically, the facial sunscreens also have. They're kind of like cosmetic products are considered like drug cosmetics. They're also used typically using, like, good for your skin ingredients. Like, maybe they might have, you know, vitamins or extracts in them or niacinamide or, you know, whatever they have in them. So you don't necessarily want to put those all over your body or maybe even from a price point, it wouldn't make sense to have those in a body sunscreen. But let's say you were at the beach and all you had in your bag was a facial sunscreen. You could certainly put that on your body. And if all you had was a body sunscreen, you could certainly put that on your face. There's nothing preventing from that. But I would think that. Yeah. Again, just an experience and maybe a cost difference perspective.

[Perry Romanoski]

Right, for sure. I. I'm sure they charge more for the facial sunscreens than they do for the whole ounce.

[Valerie George]

For sure. Yeah. Because usually Facial sunscreens are 1.7 fluid ounces, and body sunscreens are much bigger.

[Perry Romanoski]

Right, right. Okay. Thank you for that. Look at this. We have another phone call and audio from. And this one comes to us from Lydia.

[C]

Hello, Beauty Brains. This is Lydia. And it seems like everywhere I look, there is a new beef tallow product coming out on the market. What are your thoughts on this new rage of beef tallow? Facial creams and various products using beef tallow. Thank you for all you do. Take care.

[Perry Romanoski]

Beef tallow, that was a product, an ingredient that was popularly used right up until the mad cow disease scare back in the 1990s, which was when everybody kind of moved out of that. But it's coming back, huh?

[Valerie George]

It was used as a feedstock for a lot of other ingredients as well, and it still is today, probably just not for the personal care market, maybe, you know, the household and industrial markets, I'm sure.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. Because it's not like animals are killed specifically for this ingredient, but this is just like a leftover from the meat industry. And so instead of just throwing it away, it's upcycled or into soaps and emulsifiers. Exactly. But you could still see how somebody, if they're vegan or, you know, they love animals or something, and they don't want animal products. They wouldn't want something based on tallow. But I guess portion of society is Just doing the reverse on that. And they're embracing tallow.

[Valerie George]

I once said that. Well, a few years ago, I predicted beef tallow to be a trending ingredient. You can find it in my articles and Happy magazine, which I'm a regular contributor for. And I started seeing this because I noticed in the DIY and home crafter community, people were formulating with beef tallow. And once at a conference, I even said, like, if you're willing to eat steak, you should be willing to use beef byproducts in your cosmetic ingredients or cosmetic products. Right. Because it's the original upcycling. I mean, they've used beef tallow for thousands of years to make soaps and stuff, and it didn't go over very, very well with the audience. But now look at that. Beef tallow is coming out. And, you know, really all it is is a fatty acid. And so it's a liquid because it's typically high in oleic. And so it feels kind of like, really oily. So it feels kind of like an oil, I guess. And you can saponify it to become an emulsifier. You know, is there anything super special about it? I think fatty acids are great for skin. You know, would I take my own tallow and render it myself and make a cream? Probably not. But there are people doing it very successfully. And I actually, Perry, have a beef tallow product right next to me. And I got some gifts from some friends for the delivery, and one of them was a really awesome postpartum box. And so my friend had put in a bunch of stuff from this company to help the mom after the baby. And one of them is a tallow nipple cream. And it feels pretty good. I was surprised. I was like, ugh, beef tallow. You know, and then I'm like, actually, you know, I like it a lot. I would probably purchase it.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. Now I'm looking at it in comparison to some of the other fatty acids. So natural oil is like a sunflower oil. I think it's probably the closest to sunflower oil.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Sunflower oil is also high in oleic and linolenic.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah, linolenic. So I think that's what. When everyone stopped using beef tallow in our industry, I think we all pretty much switched to sunflower oil to replace that. Because they have a similar fatty acid profile.

[Valerie George]

Yeah. Well, you know, a couple years, sunflower oil used to be super cheap. You could get it for, like, less than 50 cents a pound.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah.

[Valerie George]

Until there was a major shortage when the Ukraine, Russia war broke out. And then it became several dollars a pound.

[Perry Romanoski]

They grow a lot of sunflowers there, huh?

[Valerie George]

I guess they do, but yeah. So beef. It made beef tallow look pretty affordable, I guess. But that's not why it's trending. I think it's more. It's more of a sicular thing and it'll go out of fashion. Something else will be in. We'll see the pendulum swing again. But nothing wrong with it. There are some very nice products out there. You just want to make sure you know who you're getting them from because you don't know where they're getting their beef tallow from.

[Perry Romanoski]

Now there's. Has the concern of mad cow disease been gone? So if. If you're curious, mad cow disease is a. It's a misshapen protein actually called a prion, which is able to. Well, it gets in your brain and it causes Christfeld Jakob disease or mad cow disease in cows. And yeah, it could be really bad stuff. And that's kind of why the industry moved away from it because there was a big breakout in the UK back in the 1990s. But I suppose this is something that they can screen out of it now.

[Valerie George]

Well, yeah, it's interesting. You know, there was a blood ban for a while on people who lived in areas where they would have been exposed to mad cow disease through eating the beef. And I actually had a ban on my blood because I grew up in West Germany during that time period. Okay. And now I guess it's been lifted. But I went to donate my placenta after the birth. And at first we joked and said we were going to take it home and eat it, but we did it. That's not funny to some people. But no, I went to donate it and I had to fill out this questionnaire and they've actually, for placenta donations now have a ban back on people who are from the regions I grew up in, West Germany. Yeah. So it is still of concern in certain applications.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. I think getting into tallow, beef tallow was always a low probability because it's very low. It's the oil, it's not the protein. It's not a protein. And the prion is a protein. So it's not exactly the chances you get in there and then the exposure would be a while. But. But as far as tallow going, like you said, it's cyclical. It's not surprising it comes back. It'll. I think it'll probably go away again because they're of the Animal Perceived Animal Cruelty Society side. Of this, but, you know, it's a perfectly fine ingredient.

[Valerie George]

I am a fan, I guess. A fan of this one product. I don't know.

[Perry Romanoski]

All right, we've got one more question from Lisa. She says, hello, beauty brains. I'm looking for an alternative way to shampoo my mom's hair. She is currently bedridden. I came across the company Nurture Valley and wanted to get your opinion based on the ingredients on the no water Rinse free shampoo cap and the Rinse Free body wash and shampoo. Here are the ingredients for the shampoo cap and she lists those all. So I see the second ingredient after water is dimethicone co polyol. So that's a silicone. It's got a phospholipid in there. And then lauryl glucoside. You love the glucosides, right?

[Valerie George]

Oh, yeah. You know, surfactant for cleansing, some panthenol, some other ancillary ingredients that support stability. Preservative. It uses a trade name Nipigard, which is not kosher to use that, but that's. That's okay. And then in the Rinse Free body wash and shampoo, which nourishes skin and hair cells with essential vitamins. All the cells of your hair. Yeah. It uses water. Sodium C14 16. Olefin sulfonate, which is a surfactant. Disodium cocoamphodiacetate, propylene glycol. Preservatives, natural fragrance, hydrolyzed collagen. So it's basically if it's left on, probably like a micellar water.

[Perry Romanoski]

So this is going to be a low level detergent. So it's not going to expose you to too much because if they left too much in there, it would could cause irritation, especially a glucoside.

[Valerie George]

Right, Exactly. Now I'm a little confused at how this would work because with hair or your scalp, which is what you're primarily trying to cleanse, you have to be able to somehow remove the material from your scalp. And if you're just applying product, that doesn't really happen because at least with your face and a micellar water, you have the wiping of the micellar water on a cloth and that's wiping debris and stuff away. But you can't really do that on your scalp.

[Perry Romanoski]

Valerie, I actually worked on a product like this because we were trying to come up with a rinse free shampoo.

[Valerie George]

Okay.

[Perry Romanoski]

And why didn't you guys lunch? Well, because it was very niche. Because in, in the marketing meetings, they said this product would be really good for Camping.

[Valerie George]

Yeah.

[Perry Romanoski]

See, that's a very specific industry. Yeah, it's kind of. It's kind of funny in our industry when something is way niche, you just say, oh, this would be great for camping. That means nobody's gonna buy it or they'll buy it one time. It's never going to be a product. So anyway, that's why I never launched it. But when. The way you. The way this works is you have a foam pumper. So you pump it and you run the foam through your hair so you don't need the extra water to create the foam. It's created by the packaging. And then you could wipe it out, presumably with a washcloth.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, it's just hard, you know, it's just not going to be as effective.

[Perry Romanoski]

No traditional shampoo?

[Valerie George]

Not even close. Maybe it might help combat odor.

[Perry Romanoski]

But it's the same way as powdered shampoos, too. Powdered shampoos are another thing that people use when they can't get their hair wet. And that one is just like a starch or something that you spray into the hair. It soaks up the oil and then you can comb it out. So this product might require you to comb it out. And as far as the rinse free body wash goes, I mean, if you're looking at these ingredients, the cocoa amphodiacetate and the olefin sulfonate, those are pretty mild detergents. So they're probably at really low levels. So that if you don't wipe it all off, it's. It's probably gonna be okay too.

[Valerie George]

Yeah, I mean, I would just use it on a wet washcloth or something.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And speaking of wet washcloth, you gotta go change one.

[Valerie George]

I do. Mr. Cosmetic Chemist has to run somewhere. And so I now have to take.

[Perry Romanoski]

Care of Baby C. All right, well, thanks everybody for listening. Oh, look, there's the baby.

[Valerie George]

There he is. Say hi, Baby C. Oh, cute.

[Perry Romanoski]

Hold him up for the camera.

[Valerie George]

Oh. If you get a chance, head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review that's going to help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer.

[Perry Romanoski]

And if you have a question, just record it on your smartphone and email it to thebeautybrainsmail.com or you can call that phone number that's listed in the show notes or use the form that's also in the show notes and you can type in your question.

[Valerie George]

I love that we have a telephone number.

[Perry Romanoski]

We do. I'm gonna have to. I'll announce it next week. The Beauty Brains are also on Patreon. If you want to support the show and you appreciate that we do not have any ads, although we do occasionally have baby breaks. Now you can go to patreon.com thebeautybrains and support us at any level. You also get your questions answered with a higher priority and a transcript of the show.

[Valerie George]

Also, don't forget to follow us on our various social media accounts. On Instagram, we're at the BeautyBrains 2018. On X, we're at the Beauty Brains. On Blue sky, we're at the Beauty Brains. We have a Facebook page and a TikTok.

[Perry Romanoski]

You know what? We also have Valerie.

[Valerie George]

What?

[Perry Romanoski]

The shows are now published on YouTube. Now it's just mostly just wait.

[Valerie George]

We need to add this to our script.

[Perry Romanoski]

Yeah. So go subscribe to us on YouTube if you want to listen through YouTube. That's. I guess that's all the rage these days, what the kids are doing. So all the new episodes will be put up there. And actually, I'm going back and putting some old episodes up there, too.

[Valerie George]

Oh, nice. Other people could listen to it while they clean their house.

[Perry Romanoski]

Exactly.

[Valerie George]

Well, thanks again for listening, everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[Perry Romanoski]

Thanks, everybody. And welcome back. Valerie.

[Valerie George]

Thanks. Yeah.

[Perry Romanoski]

Kittens.