Sunscreen Stations, Blue Light, Silicones and more - Episode 410

Summary

The Beauty Brains — Episode 410

Sunscreen Stations, Blue Light, Silicones and More
November 8, 2025 | Hosts: Perry Romanowski and Valerie George

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, cosmetic chemists Perry and Valerie tackle a variety of listener beauty questions with scientific rigor and plenty of personality. Topics include controversial “clean” beauty claims (and lawsuits), the real impact of blue light from screens, the function and marketing behind sunscreen stations, silicone’s actual role in haircare, the misleading nature of apps like Yuka, and whether Cetaphil’s oil-to-foam cleanser is really an “oil” at all. Along the way, they address hot topics in industry news and demystify headline trends in the cosmetic world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Industry News & Trends

— [07:22–14:38]

• Biotech & Microbiome:

  • New platforms, like Nanospun, are making live cell-derived actives for skincare, but the hosts are skeptical about whether topical bacteria can benefit skin as much as claimed.
  • Unilever's study links stable skin microbiome to a younger appearance, but Perry questions the practical meaning of “microbiome resilience.”

• Ingredient Reassessments:

  • Avobenzone, a common sunscreen ingredient, has been re-affirmed as safe — not exactly a "breakthrough" given its long use.

• “Breakthroughs” in Men’s Skincare:

  • Exosome-based delivery systems tailored for men are on the rise, but both hosts doubt claims of extra efficacy; exosomes struggle to penetrate the skin barrier unless paired with microneedling, which is rare outside clinical contexts.
  • Valerie [10:15]: “Less than 1% [of exosomes] penetrate the skin... micro-needling helps, but on their own — not really.”

• Cosmetic Safety Reports:

  • Retailers and agencies like Chem Forward released a report suggesting a massive safety gap due to "uncharacterized" ingredients (24%), but Valerie calls this exaggerated, insisting all products must be substantiated for safety globally.
  • Valerie [12:37]: “In every geography in the world, it’s illegal to sell unsafe products.”

2. Legal Actions in 'Clean Beauty'

— [13:19–16:58]

• Ulta Lawsuit on Clean Claims:

  • Ulta faces legal action for allegedly mislabeling products as "free" from certain ingredients (per their Conscious Beauty program) when they were not.

  • The loose, shifting definitions of "clean" among retailers are highlighted. Hosts welcome the scrutiny, given that clean beauty is “fundamentally misleading.”

  • Perry [15:59]: “Just Clean Beauty is misleading at its core. Beauty is all, you know, safe — that's the law.”

  • Valerie [15:21]: “It’s the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law. Chemical nuances get missed.”

3. Reviewing the Yuka App

— [17:04–19:55]

• Yuka App Scrutiny:
  • The Yuka app, popular for rating products' safety, is critiqued for oversimplifying toxicology and perpetuating erroneous consumer fears.
  • The app is involved in lawsuits, such as Goya Foods challenging its food safety claims.
  • Perry [19:20]: “It’s nice to get information by scanning, but their recommendations are based on a bunch of crap.”
  • Valerie [19:35]: “Toxicology is complex... This app just is oversimplifying all of that.”

4. Listener Questions & Expert Answers

A. Young Goose 'Biohacking' Products

[21:21–29:21]

• Ingredients Explored:

  • The “Youth Reset V2 Serum” features “NAD Plus precursor” and “Silvio spermidine,” touting claims about cellular regeneration and anti-aging.

  • Spermidine is a plant-derived compound (from wheat germ) not related to animal sperm, as Perry jokes.

  • Both hosts remain skeptical. While such ingredients have a theoretical link to anti-aging, meaningful effects via topical application are unproven.

  • The $196/oz price is unjustified by manufacturing cost or breakthrough ingredient.

  • Valerie [26:52]: “They focus on ingredients that work at the cellular process — in theory. But [spermidine] has been around a long time.”

B. How Do Silicones Work in Hair Care?

[30:15–34:19]

• Silicone’s True Function:

  • Disproves the “water sealing” misconception: silicones & hydrophobic polymers coat hair, preventing uneven water absorption, which helps manage frizz.

  • Damage leads to asymmetric absorption→frizz. Silicones create a hydrophobic barrier, equalizing moisture.

  • Perry [32:24]: “You want to coat that fiber... so the amount of moisture is equalized on all sides.”

  • Valerie notes intrinsic (bound) water is always present, and “sealing” is a simplification.

C. Cetaphil Nourishing Oil to Foam Cleanser — Is It Really an Oil?

[34:29–37:45]

• Analysis:
  • Despite the “oil” claim, it's primarily a standard foaming cleanser with trace oils at best.
  • Uses standard surfactants like cocoamidopropyl betaine and lauryl glucoside. The “oil” sensation likely comes from PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil, not from a substantive oil phase.
  • Valerie [35:33]: “There's no oil in it... I was expecting [actual oils] but it's a standard cleanser.”
  • Both call out the product’s marketing as misleading; it’s more “depositing” than truly nourishing or oily.

D. Are Outdoor Sunscreen Stations Effective?

[38:23–43:32]

• Sunscreen Station Safety:

  • These stations are becoming more common in parks and beaches, sometimes sitting in direct sunlight.

  • Sunscreens (especially OTC) must pass rigorous stability testing at high temperatures (45°C+ for 6 months).

  • Most formulations, especially from major brands, remain effective unless left in extreme/long exposure.

  • Valerie [41:27]: “OTC sunscreens have more rigorous stability testing... But I’d be interested to sample and test them myself.”

  • Physical changes (liquefaction) can occur, signaling potential instability; but quick turnover at busy sites mitigates risk.

E. Blue Light from Screens — A Skin Risk?

[44:01–48:43]

• Blue Light vs Skin Aging:

  • Light from screens (phones, computers) is minuscule compared to sunlight. The risk for skin aging is negligible.

  • Some studies and marketing highlight blue light's generation of free radicals (ROS), but the effect is vastly overstated in beauty marketing.

  • Perry [45:00]: “The amount of blue light you're getting from your cell phone is minuscule compared to what you get from the sun.”

  • Valerie [47:37]: “Blue light can impact your circadian rhythm and eyes, but for skin care, the effect from screens is negligible.”

  • Main impact is on sleep cycles and eyes, not skin damage.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On industry “Breakthroughs”:
  Perry [9:00]: “Everybody has a different microbiome, so what's a good one, what's a bad one? We don't even know.”

• On the nebulous ‘clean’ beauty space:
  Valerie [15:21]: “It’s the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law. Chemical nuances get missed.”

• On the Yuka App's influence:
  Valerie [19:35]: “Formulations are complex. Toxicology is complex... This app just is oversimplifying all of that.”

• On exosome claims:
  Valerie [10:15]: “Less than 1% [of exosomes] penetrate the skin... microneedling helps, but on their own — not really.”

• On biohacking in beauty:
  Valerie [23:00]: “Biohacking? I hate that term. We're not hacking any bio.”

• On product markups:
  Perry [28:19]: “$196 for 1 oz? You could make that for a lot less... It’s a bit of a markup.”

• On blue light:
  Perry [45:00]: “The amount of blue light you're getting from your cell phone is minuscule compared to what you get from the sun.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------|--------------| | Industry news, microbiome, exosomes | 07:22–10:42 | | Clean beauty safety, Chem Forward | 11:15–13:02 | | Ulta clean beauty lawsuit | 13:19–16:58 | | Yuka app and app-based ratings | 17:04–19:55 | | Young Goose serum, “biohacking” | 21:21–29:21 | | Silicones & hair water management | 30:15–34:19 | | Cetaphil “oil” cleanser explained | 34:29–37:45 | | Sunscreen stations’ safety | 38:23–43:32 | | Blue light & skin | 44:01–48:43 |

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

Perry and Valerie maintain their accessible, witty, and science-forward approach, cutting through industry buzzwords and marketing spin to offer listeners real, actionable insights. The tone is friendly, skeptical where warranted, and always places an emphasis on evidence.

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For New Listeners:

This episode is packed with practical myth-busting, seasoned industry skepticism, and clear explanations valuable for anyone who wants to make smart, evidence-based beauty decisions — with a few laughs (and cat stories) along the way.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Perry, and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Hello and welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 410, and we are trying hard. I'm your host, Perry Romanowski, and with me today is Valerie George. Hello, Valerie.

[B]

Hi, Perry.

[A]

Valerie, it's been a little while since we've done a show because you were out in California, but today we still got the questions coming in. And you know what the questions are?

[B]

What are they?

[A]

I can tell you what they are. Well, first, what do we think of the Young Goose line of products? How do silicones work in hair care products? How does cetaphil nourishing oil to foam cleanser work? Are those outdoor sunscreen stations providing effective products? And does the light from your cell phone affect your skin? But first, some of that chit chat. You were in California for the Industry Suppliers Day. I wasn't able to go. But how did that go?

[B]

It was a nice show. I had a booth like I did last time. It was in a great location. It was super cute. I had a hedge wall with my logo and, you know, a little wooden floor and some chairs. And it was not only great to catch up with other people in the industry, but I found out so many people listened to the show and they were just happy to come up and meet me. And that felt really nice.

[A]

Wow, that is excellent. And did you get to do, like, the social networking stuff? They had some sort of big party there or something?

[B]

Oh, I don't do that. You know, I can't be around flashing lights and that kind of stuff, and it's full of flashing lights. But I did have the opportunity to meet one of the staff, state regulators, at least one of their communications directors from OEHA, which essentially sets up the Prop 65 legislation in California. This blank, you know, contains something known to the state of California to cause cancer. That. That law.

[A]

Sure, yeah.

[B]

I said, you know what? If you are a consumer and you use beauty products, you should check out our podcast because we answer beauty product questions and maybe that would help you guys. So hopefully they're listening.

[A]

Well, that is excellent. Now, I was wondering, in your booth, did you have pictures of the, you know, the lab cats that walk around here?

[B]

I didn't, but so much stuff is going on, I can't even get into it. But basically we've got Doug. And today I gave him the opportunity to go back.

[A]

Doug is a cat.

[B]

Doug's the cat, and he's living inside now, and.

[A]

Oh, is he.

[B]

He does not want to go back outside. He actually asked. He asked to come back in, and I was like, okay, we'll let you in, dude. And he just sleeps at my feet, hangs out all day. He's so cool.

[A]

Wow. Well, that is very cool. You know, the heat miser was at my window today, and I brought him in the house, and he's this furry cat, and he's got all of these matted fur pieces. I think it's painful for him. So I've slowly just trying to clip him off. I got clippers, I got scissors. And when he's eating, I'd, like, take a little snip off. But if you do it wrong, you can kind of hurt them a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was doing one today. It was just this one flappy one. I was just going to clip it, and I clipped it, and then he yelped, and he kind of ran out of my lap. And then a lot of the hair got pulled out, and so I feel bad I hurt the little guy.

[B]

Oh, poor thing. Well, you know, I got news. So Doug had a brother named Brother, and we tried to trap Brother, but we. He outsmarted the trap, and we ended up trapping the neighbor's cat, Patty Mayonnaise. And the whole thing was a mess. So Brother's been missing, but today my other neighbor at work said, hey, I think the. You know, Doug the cat's been coming by. And I'm like, well, it can't be Doug, because he's inside.

[A]

All right?

[B]

And he showed me the security footage, and it's Brother. So Brother's alive. We're gonna get him so Doug can have his best friend Brax. That's what's going on in the last.

[A]

Week, but sure, lots. Lots of cat news.

[B]

Lots of cat news. And maybe I'll have more information at a later date. But I just, you know, I'm excited because it's the holiday season, and.

[A]

Well, yeah, I mean, we just had Halloween. I didn't really dress up at anything, but I did hand out a bunch of candy to kids, and we got more kids this year than we had in a long time, it seems like. Do kids still trick or treat?

[B]

They do.

[A]

Seem like they do it as much.

[B]

They do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe not as much or, you know, maybe they go to different neighborhoods. I'm not really sure. But it's just the holiday season. And can you guess what my favorite holiday is?

[A]

Well, if it's the holiday Season, I'm gonna say your favorite holidays gotta be Thanksgiving.

[B]

Nope. Daylight saving time ends. I love when the clocks fall back because it means it's lighter in the morning. I'm a morning person, unfortunately. Means it's dark at 5pm but you know what? That's the price we have to pay for light mornings.

[A]

I kind of think that we should go to no daylight savings time, but then only have two time zones in the United States. So blend Eastern and Central and then Pacific and mountain. Blend them so you only have two.

[B]

Well, what about Alaska and Hawaii? Can we keep those times?

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Those would stay the same, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we can't forget about them. But how do you handle the time change? Do you like it? Like, I mean, aside from thinking we should do away with it, do you prefer this time of year or the spring time of year?

[A]

You know, I like to do is I like to save my hour. So, you know, we got this extra hour. I don't want to waste it sleeping. So I'm. I've been saving it up for later in the, in the week when I need it.

[B]

But I don't think it works like that.

[A]

The problem is that now I'm early for everything, you know.

[B]

Well, you should be early for everything anyway.

[A]

Yeah, but an hour early, that seems a bit much.

[B]

Well, you like to be punctual.

[A]

I guess I do. Hey, you know what I'm doing? I'm heading out to Hong Kong next week.

[B]

Wow, what are you doing there?

[A]

Yeah, I'm speaking at a conference out there. I think it's. They're having like a suppliers day out there and I'm speaking on formulating for anti aging products and aging wellness and that sort of thing, so.

[B]

Oh, that should be fun.

[A]

There's a long way to go and. But I, you know, I've been to Hong Kong once before and I really liked it. It was a cool city. So I'm looking forward to going back.

[B]

That's interesting an event is going on in Hong Kong because there's also a big industry event going on in Thailand in cosmetics.

[A]

Yeah, that's cosmetics Asia or something.

[B]

Yeah, but they're separate events at the same time.

[A]

This is like beauty something or other. So I think it being in China is a little bit different because they, they're gonna support it for sure.

[B]

Oh, yes, they will. Well, what's been. Well, speaking of support, let's support our industry news.

[A]

Valerie, I saw a few things in the news first. You know, we, we get these trade journals and we do it's always interesting to learn about technological breakthroughs, But I'm reading this article, it's like the five recent breakthroughs in cosmetic science. And they noted five notable scientific advances in beauty formulations which included. All right, there's this biotech platform from nanospun which is producing live cell derived actives for skin care. Essentially they're trying to get you to put bacteria on your skin and then the bacteria creates the active. I don't know, it seemed a little dubious. Then there was a study by Unilever that linked the skin microbiome resilience with visible aging. So I didn't really understand what it meant, but I think what it was, they looked at people who are the same age and then rated how they looked numerically. And so the people who looked older than their age had a less stable microbiome, which implies that a more stable microbiome is going to be associated with looking younger. I don't know, it seems kind of dubious for a, you know, a breakthrough.

[B]

Well, I don't know if it's a breakthrough per se, but I think it's confirming what we're already starting to learn about the human microbiome and skin.

[A]

Yeah, I just don't understand. What does it mean, like skin microbiome resilience? Because everybody has a different microbiome. So what's a good one, what's a bad one? We don't even know.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And then there is a toxicology reassessment that affirmed that avobenzone is okay to use so.

[B]

Well, I mean, is that a breakthrough? We already knew it was safe.

[A]

I know it doesn't seem like much of a breakthrough. They said they had another breakthrough was clay masks can reduce oiliness, but they don't really improve elasticity of skin. So if you have oily skin, clay mask is worth using. And then finally there's a new exosome based delivery system tailored for men's skin, which. I don't know. Why wouldn't it still work for women's skin? It seems strange.

[B]

Well, I mean, Caldera and lab was the sponsor from.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, this report, this specific part of the report. And so maybe it has something to do with that, but.

[A]

Well, yeah, but there are, there are men's line then.

[B]

Yeah. I'm just not impressed with exosomes.

[A]

I. I'm not, I'm not either when.

[B]

They'Re just topically applied, you know, but whatever. What do I know?

[A]

Right. Well, that's the big marketing buzzard. Exosomes. I mean, the challenge of them is that they. You have to get them down to the living cells for them to really do anything. And there's not a lot of evidence to get down there.

[B]

So, yeah, there's one study. I talk about it in Happy magazine, my column, dear Valerie, where essentially less than 1% are able to penetrate the skin, and they get stuck in the stratum corneum and the stratum granulosum, which are the two outermost layers of your skin. You can get better penetration with micro needling. And then applying them, they can kind of travel through better, but on their own.

[A]

Right, Right. All right, here's another article, Personal Care Insights. Put something about. About beauty industries finally getting together to come up with, I don't know, cosmetic safety report to end the historical Echo collaboration. I. This one I found a little bit music. This is sort of like theater of safety because it's a coalition of these beauty brands, right? Yeah. What's the deal with this one?

[B]

Well, essentially, some beauty retailers and beauty brands, led by an agency called Chem Forward, essentially wanted to look at how safe products and their ingredients were. So they created this intelligence report. They analyzed 1.25 million ingredients across 48,000 products. I don't think they're unique ingredients. I think that's impossible.

[A]

Yeah, there's no way there aren't 1.25 million different ingredients in cosmetics.

[B]

I think there's like 15,000 in the inky dictionary or something like that.

[A]

Well, I think it's up to 20,000, but.

[B]

Okay, well, 10 years ago is 15,000. So what they found out was 76% of ingredients are characterized for safety. At 24% remain uncharacterized, which creates a huge safety gap. And so essentially, this report points out that, you know, a legally defined standard for clean is necessary, doesn't exist, and it is necessary for ingredients to not evade robust hazard assessments. Now, I really disagree with this because, I mean, one, in every geography in the world, it's illegal to sell unsafe products.

[A]

Right? Right.

[B]

And so you have to have some degree of substantiation of safety, whether it's through, you know, testing on the product, having a toxicologist review your product with ingredients and use case scenario, which I always recommend. So I just don't feel like this gap is there as they're alluding. And they're saying lip colorants, emollients, and surfactants are priority areas for safer chemistry innovation.

[A]

I mean, emollients really, and. And colorants. I mean, colorants are the most highly restricted cosmetic ingredient that we have that. Like, the FDA requires every batch to be certified of coloring. So that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[B]

Yeah, I feel like they're missing the gap. And, you know, I'm just like, I'm over beauty retailers and I get it. You gotta play the game because they're like, setting all these standards. But I was a little bit happy to see that there's a class action lawsuit with Ulta.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that article. Ulta was hit with this lawsuit over their clean beauty claims. The Ulta retailer got this lawsuit filed in California alleging that its Conscious beauty program misled consumers by marketing certain products as meeting a made without list, which meant it was free of certain ingredients, when in fact they contained ingredients purported to be excluded. So lawsuits say that the consumers paid premiums for these products that are labeled clean under Ulta's pillars. And. But they did not receive the benefit promised. Ulta responded that is committed to transparency, verification and brand participation and continuing progress. But the legal action signals the growing regulatory and reputational risk tied to clean beauty claims. What's going on here, Valerie? I mean, they. So in Ulta, they just will sell anything but say that it's clean?

[B]

I'm not really sure what Ulta was doing. They do have a conscious beauty program, as you mentioned.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it's similar to Sephora Clean, where none of the products can contain those ingredients. But it sounds like, at least according to this lawsuit, they must have some proof that things were missed. And this is the problem when you don't have chemists substantiating some of these things. Because, for example, a long time ago, you know, I, I worked with a guy who worked at a brand and they weren't allowed to use ethoxylated materials.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

Anything that said peg. Excuse me, which is an ethoxylated material.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, they used polysorbate 20, which is technically ethoxylated, but it was not. Didn't have the inky peg. Right. So it was letter of the law, spirit of the law. Right. And so I think some of those chemical nuances get missed in, in platforms like this. So maybe that's what happened again, I don't know. But I really wish this was everybody in the world suing Ulta and suing Sephora and the likes. Because the lists are only misleading because the products are not safer than other products that are in the same store. They all have the same burden of safety.

[A]

Right, exactly. So because just Clean Beauty is misleading at its core, it's just a misleading marketing term. Because, you know, beauty is all, you know, safe. You know, that's. That's the law. So whether it's standard or it's got this clean beauty now, what could have happened here? I haven't seen it. I would just guess that maybe Ulta Beauty, maybe their standards are different than, say, the CREDO standard, and they allow some chemicals that others don't allow. And there's consistent be some confusion there. So that's absolutely. Maybe ultimate. So maybe ultimately what could happen is that.

[B]

You mean ultimately, I feel like you.

[A]

What. What could happen then is that there's some ruling about what is clean beauty or what. What's the definition? I doubt that that'll happen. This will probably get settled, I would guess, but.

[B]

Or thrown out, something like that. Or.

[A]

Yeah, or thrown out. Well, speaking of throwing out, let's just look at one more here.

[B]

This is another horn in my side. The Yuka app. Have you heard of it?

[A]

Right?

[B]

Have you heard of it?

[A]

We've talked about it. I have heard of it. You know, what happened on this before this Yuka app? One time, some reporter had asked me about these apps and things for some story. And my thought on Yuka was that I said, you know, I don't have a lot of faith in it, but, you know, they get paid paid kickbacks with, you know, as an affiliate program, so when they recommend something, they get some money for doing that. And I got some pushback because they, the. The founder claims that indeed they do not do that. And so. So I was wrong there. And so that's not how they make their money. They make their money some other way, but it's not through affiliate programs. So I would just want to throw that out there.

[B]

Well, I feel like we've commented on similar apps to this in the past, and some of the app creators have not been fans of ours because we're not saying nice things. Because the reality is some of these things don't rate well in the app, but they are proven over and over and over and over again to be safe. And in the case of these apps, they're saying, well, we don't think they're safe, safe for use. And the problem is it perpetuates with the users of this app, which, by the way, as a formulator, I'm constantly being asked to formulate so that a product shows up with a good Yuka score, which is a totally stupid standard to formulate against. But consumers are really using this as like, oh, my gosh, Yuka says it's terrible. Right? And the problem is that creates a false truth, and the industry has to fight against it. And you can look this up. Public information. Goya Foods, because Yuca actually started in the food industry, is suing Yuka because Yuka has alleged that some of their products are harmful to consume. And Goya is like, absolutely not. It's our food is safer consumption. So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. And who knows? Just like Ulta's being sued, but only because consumers felt they were deceived. Maybe other things will happen like this in the cosmetic sector. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, this Yuka app, it's nice that you can scan a barcode and get information about a product that's handy. But as far as them scoring whether things are safe or not or their recommendations, that's just based on a bunch of crap.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, formulations are complex. Toxicology is complex. Toxicology indicates or takes into consideration the dosage, the delivery, frequency of use, the person, demographic that it's being used on. Right. And this app just is oversimplifying all of that.

[A]

Right. And yeah, it's not reliable. So there you go, Yuka. You know, transparency. But, you know, that's. The information you're getting is dubious. Hey, you remember that show we did where somebody asked why their shirt was. Was turning color? I think it was.

[B]

Oh, where their hair was transferring something onto the shirt?

[A]

Yeah, it was like a couple episodes ago. Yeah. Sammy got back to us. She said, thanks for trying to solve my laundry mystery. I will be doing some tests this week. She said first, she had never dyed or bleached her hair.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It usually only stains on the side where I spray the product directly onto my wet hair. And it only shows up after I washed the shirt. I'm thinking it might be a reaction with my detergent or other laundry product.

[B]

Okay, Sammy, some questions for you. Can you let me know what laundry detergent you're using and laundry softener and or dryer sheet? Oh, I have some thoughts.

[A]

Oh, all right. Well, speaking of thoughts, we have some questions. Let's head on over to those beauty questions. First one comes to us from Amanda from Chicago. She says, have y' all covered the. Have you all. That's a Chicago saying right here.

[B]

Y' all is Texas. It's not Chicago.

[A]

I know. I was being sarcastic.

[B]

Okay. I was like, you guys say that there. I think you guys say you guys.

[A]

I think, yeah, we say you use guises, but I think, you know, the youngsters of the days, you know, language. Language evolves everywhere. Anyway, back to. Back to Amanda's question. She says, have you all considered the Young Goose line? Specifically The Youth Reset V2 Serum, the ingredients NAD Plus Precursor and Salvio spermidine. Can you discuss the research and what your thoughts are on them? And also, why are they so expensive? So I wasn't familiar with this Young Goose line, but I looked it up and the first thing I saw, it said, use our vampire exosomes.

[B]

Oh, gosh.

[A]

So maybe that's like a combination of an exosome with micro needling, but they're like little fangs.

[B]

Oh, man, don't even get me started caring.

[A]

Speaking of fangs, one of my porch kitties, PK Clone. I just noticed when you take a picture of her, her little fangs are always out. Like her lips do not cover her fangs.

[B]

Yeah, that's a defect.

[A]

Yeah, we call her PK Fangs now. All right, back to. Back to the Young Goose folks. So, okay, now we got. Well, they have a biohacking beauty podcast. I might have to check that out, but there you go.

[B]

Biohacking. I hate that term. Oh my gosh.

[A]

Oh, do you? That's like. What's that supposed to mean, biohacking?

[B]

Nothing. I mean, it's just like another catchphrase that the industry used at some point in time. And it's like, we're not hacking any bio.

[A]

Right, Right. We're. Now we're just, you know, moisturizing and cleansing. That's what we're doing. But it looks like their focus at this Young Goose is on exosomes. And I guess at the start of the show neither of seemed very impressed with exosomes. So what's the deal? They have their. They are 3 trillion PRP derived exosomes per bottle. Wow. 3 trillion what? Molecules.

[B]

Yeah, but like, what does that even mean? You know, like, that's just a calculation.

[A]

Well, There's Avogadro's number 6.022 times 10 to the 23rd, which if you counted all the molecules, it'd be that. So if you had one mole of this stuff, it would be, well, more than 3 trillion. So.

[B]

Yeah, I don't think there's any number there. Yeah, so that's. It's not. Definitely not a mole of exosomes.

[A]

Right. No way. So there's sciences that reawaken your skin's dormant regenerative power. It has the molecules NAD boosters and Salvio spermidine, which I've not heard of that.

[B]

You've never heard of spermidine?

[A]

No. Is it from. That's not the salmon sperm, is it?

[B]

No, it has nothing to do with that at all. It's not like sperm from mammals. It has to do. Or I guess, I don't know if salmon are mammals, maybe it's.

[A]

Wait, wait. Yes. No, they're fish, they're not mammals. I was thinking sperm. So it's sperm whales.

[B]

No, no. Whale blood. Spermaceti. No, none of that. So spermidine is actually a component found in wheat germ and other plants. And so it has to do with like the little endosperm found in these like little seeds. Yeah, sure, sure. And it actually naturally occurs within our body as well and it plays a different roles in like anti aging processes, like cellular autophagy. So like the ability of a cell to like clean out the junk and all that kind of stuff. So pretty cool. I mean, I don't know anything about their ability to penetrate topically. I do know there was a raw material from BASF a long time ago that basically inhibited spermidine so that lipolysis could be stimulated to help. The raw material was called slim excess. I don't know if it's still around.

[A]

But the fact that it hasn't really taken up much says something about effectiveness. I would think. So overall, just looking at this, you know, there's the Selvio spermidine, it's like kind of an older technology or it's been around. Right. Maybe their version of it is newish, but.

[B]

Well, I mean it's use in this product is new, but it's actually Silvio spermidine, which is what this brand Young Goose, which, you know, I'm not sure where the name comes from, but you know, I just think of like geese pooping everywhere. So.

[A]

Sure, sure. You're not a big goose fan.

[B]

Yeah, you know, not a fan, but anyway. And then it also reminds me of the movie Top Gun with Goose the co pilot.

[A]

Anyway, you know, it reminds me of a time when I was floating on a neighbor's pond in my jeans on an inner tube and I was attacked by a goose.

[B]

A young one or an old one?

[A]

It was an old one. He pushed me right in the water. I had to swim back. But ever since then I find geese to be a little menacing.

[B]

Oh well, they can be very mean. But anyway, so yeah, this line really focuses on ingredients that kind of work at the cellular process fundamentally, you know, in theory. And so they're using the Salvio spermidine material, which is, you know, a trademarked, well known material that's already been in use a Lot of people have access to it.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I just look at this and, you know, they use ingredients that are around that you're probably at suppliers day. A lot of these ingredients were talked about and AD D precursor. So there isn't any special technology that other people aren't using. Maybe they're not using it in like, all of these specific ones in the same product. But I wouldn't think there's anything that a company like this could do that your PNGs or your Unilevers or your L' Oreals couldn't do with more precision and more scientific backing. So, yeah, I don't know. And then the product prices. What do we got here? She said it's expensive. We got the Youth Anti Aging serum, a mere $196. For what size do we got 1 ounce, 30 mils. What? Wow.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Pretty pricey. I actually feel like I read about the two founders time ago. Yeah. And they're pretty. Pretty young. I don't know if they're a couple, but, you know, the podcast looks interesting. Of course, you always have to remember they're going to recommend technologies that they personally use. But their, you know, background expertise is biohacking.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I just don't know if that you can get that from a cosmetic product. But I'm excited to check out the podcast. We'll see.

[A]

You know, I'm looking at their podcast studio. They have a picture on their website that looks pretty nice. Not as. Not as nice as the studios here.

[B]

No. Not as nice as our studios.

[A]

Not at all. All right, well, thank you for that. So, you know, it's expensive because it's a small company and they're putting in high amounts of Actives and, you know, that's how you make products profit in this business, so.

[B]

And these Actives are expensive, though. It's not like they're just arbitrarily marking. I mean, maybe they are arbitrarily marking the prices up. I don't know. But in general, like, these materials are pretty expensive to get.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But I've said for one. For 1 ounce, 30 mils, you could make that for a lot less than, you know, it's a dollar a bottle.

[B]

I don't think. A dollar a bottle. I think less than 10 for sure. But so to charge 196. Okay. Yeah, that's. It's a bit of a markup.

[A]

$10? Yeah. Okay. All right.

[B]

A dollar. This isn't Tresemme. Come on, get out of here.

[A]

Tresemme was not a Dollar? Well, yeah, it was a dollar a bottle, but. All right, let's. We got an audio question here. Valerie, let me play that up here. And this is from Melissa, who is a patron. So here we go from Melissa.

[B]

Hey, beauty brains. Recently, I read a chapter about adsorption by cosmetic chemist Treffor Evans. It's in a book called Practical Modern Hair Science, which is available for free online. In this chapter, I learned that there really isn't evidence that hair products can meaningfully alter the water content of hair. So the common idea that gels and other similar products work by sealing out water isn't really scientific. I learned how gels actually work, which is by welding the hair together while it dries to set it in place. But how do silicones work? I know that they do a great job preventing frizz from me when it's humid, but I just don't know how anymore.

[A]

You know, Valerie, she also put in the email she sent to us. She says, I love the show and I'm a patron also. Congratulations, Valerie.

[B]

Oh, thank you. Could be congratulations on Baby C. It could be congratulations on me being the 2028 President of the Society of Cosmetic Chemists.

[A]

Yes, could be a couple things just elected that. Yes, excellent, excellent. Congratulations on that. All right, let's talk silicones in hair. Now, first, she says that, you know, water products don't really seal in water. So let's talk about that for a moment. Where did that come from? And is it true that things don't get sealed in?

[B]

I was surprised to read this because essentially your hair has intrinsic bound water content, and then it has, like, free water that can kind of freely move in and outside of the hair fiber. And you can, I guess, I'll say, kind of seal the water in or at least prevent movement of water into the hair. It's the basis of anti frizz products that offer some kind of humidity control because, you know, the more water you have in your hair, the more plasticized it becomes and the more swelling there is, and then the more repulsion there is, and then your hair gets frizzy. So you can mitigate that by putting hydrophobic materials or polymers with some kind of hydrophobicity back on the hair fiber.

[A]

Well, and that's how silicones work to prevent frizz. And so what happens is, actually what happens is your hair, when your hair is damaged, it can be damaged, like, asymmetrically. So on one side, the cuticle is not really damaged, and then on the other side, it's more damaged. And so that the hair can absorb water at different rates. And so if one side of the hair is absorbing water faster than another side, that's going to make it kind of curl up. We used to do this demo with a sponge where we take sponges that had different densities of holes so they would absorb water at different rates. And you'd put, if you put water on one side and then the whole sponge would like fold over and create essentially a frizz. And so what you try to do with silicones is you want to coat that, that fiber and you want to sort of make sure that the amount of moisture that's there is equalized on all sides of the fiber. And and then once you put that silicone on, no more water can get in there. And the minimal that might be still in there can't get back out because there's always some intrinsic water in your.

[B]

Hair fiber, especially depending on what humidity you live in.

[A]

Right. And that's kind of how it works to prevent frizz, how silicones work.

[B]

So I guess I'm curious why Melissa thinks there's no evidence that products can alter the water content of hair.

[A]

Well, she was just saying she read the book Practical Modern Hair Science by Trevor Evans, and I guess she read it in there. So I haven't seen the context of what she read. So I'll have to go and take a look at that.

[B]

Yeah, I have the book. I don't recall that being in there and I, I'm a huge fan of Trevor Evans. So yeah, I'll have to see what context he made that statement in.

[A]

Right, right. All right, Speaking of statements, look at this. We have another audio question and this one comes to us from another patron. Rachel.

[B]

Hi, Beauty brains. I've started using Cetaphil's nourishing oil to foam cleanser. And I was just curious how it works. Is it some sort of wash that just feels like an oil and then kind of foams up, or is the technology different than that?

[A]

Thanks, Valerie. Have you used this nourishing Cetaphil one?

[B]

You know, I'm not a fan of like oil cleansers, just in general, like even the advertisement, you know, I like cleansers to be cleansers, so I thought this would actually be one of those oily based cleansers that feels like an oil and then it transforms into a milk that doesn't have surfactants in it, but rather weak emulsifiers. And I was actually kind of surprised or you know, or I was expecting to see an oil with an emulsifier in it. And I was actually surprised that this is called an oil to foam cleanser because there's no oil in it.

[A]

Well, they. They say on there and on the. The bottle it says they have flaxseed oil and penta vintin.

[B]

Pentavitin is a yeast extract.

[A]

Right. So. But they said they have flaxseed oil, so maybe that's how they.

[B]

Oh, I couldn't find it because it was at the bottom of the ingredient list. Maybe they meant peg 40 hydrogenated castor oil.

[A]

Oh, yeah, they have that. Well, I have to say in looking at. So how does this work? I think she's right. It's more of a product that's made to look like an oil. Then they include a couple of oils in there. But it's, you know, it's got standard stuff in. It has the cocobidopropyl betaine in there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It has lauryl glucoside. These are just regular surfactants. So these are. This is, you know, sodium cocoa amphoacetate.

[B]

Sodium cocoa alaninate. That sounds like an alaninate tongue twister. So.

[A]

Yeah, I. I don't know what's going on here, but those are. It is a pretty standard cleanser here.

[B]

Yeah, I'm surprised they call it an oil to foam cleanser. Again, it may contain some oil, but it's not really like an oil.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's definitely not. But hey, that's. It's cetaphil. Are. They're big guys and for that somehow their marketing got to thinking it's. Well, call it oil to cleanser and that'll sell the product better. So this is pretty much a standard cleanser to me. It says, you know, it's a lightweight cleanser.

[B]

I would think, I would argue it's a depositing cleanser. Not very cleansing kind of depositing a lot of stuff on the skin.

[A]

Yeah. Glycerin, cocomidopropyl beats. I mean, the. Depends on how much of their surfactant they're using in there. They got the betaine, the glucoside, that ampoacetate. So it depends on how much, I guess.

[B]

Yeah, I will. I would say peg 40 castor oil tends to leave a lot of residue in a good way.

[A]

Oh, right.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So maybe it's has the impression of being super nourishing.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Well, it doesn't sound like Valerie's a huge fan of these and, you know, but hopefully that helps. We do know how it works, which we just Don't. Yeah, of course. I barely, I barely wash my face.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I'd be interested to try it. I mean, I, you know, the cetaphil products are generally nice, you know.

[A]

Yeah, they're generally good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, Valerie, we got time for two more questions. And look at this. Super fan Timothy. Yeah, Patreon, super fan Timothy wrote one in. Hey. And you know, he said, he said, Valerie, he said, feel free to use an AI voice if we want to.

[B]

I don't think Timothy would say that.

[A]

No, no, this is specifically what he wrote in.

[B]

Okay. All right, let's do it. Hi, beauty brains. I am curious about these outdoor sunscreen stations that can be found in some cities, particularly in parks.

[A]

Are these likely to be effective even.

[B]

Though they are out in the sun regularly? I feel like the stability could get a little messy.

[A]

Have you used these, have you seen these outdoor sunscreen stations?

[B]

Where are all of them found? I have liter. Never come across one. And I lived in Los Angeles and Dallas. The sun actually shines a lot here.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I, I think I saw some when I was on the Jersey shore this summer at the, at the beaches. They, they had some of these and I think I've seen them traveling other places. Like we were in, in southern France by the beaches that they have. A couple places had these or at amusement parks. Have you been to an amusement park lately?

[B]

I don't like amusement parks. No.

[A]

No. So that might explain why you haven't seen these.

[B]

Well, also, to be fair, in Los Angeles, at least in the Santa Monica Bay, it's always cloudy. At the beach, it's like rarely really sunny.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Okay, so maybe, I mean, maybe they're there and I haven't seen them. Or maybe it's just not too sunny.

[A]

Right. Or, you know, you still want to use sunscreen when it's even a little not sunny.

[B]

I agree. But you know, are the people installing these things, you know, it's for sun protection, not anti aging.

[A]

Right. And so he says, how likely are these going to be effective, even though that they're sitting out in the sun? So you. These are like, essentially it's a plastic container that's sitting out usually by a beach or something. And it does get sun on it. So these containers will warm up. And what do you think? How are those things gonna hold up under.

[B]

Now, can you describe them to me? Do they have like individual, like doses that you take and then you put it in the trash? Or is it like a hand soap or hand sanitizer at an Airport, you just pump how much you need into your hand.

[A]

I'm gonna share my screen because Timothy sent a picture of this.

[B]

Well, we'll include that in the show notes.

[A]

All right, here's the picture.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

See it there?

[B]

Yeah. I've literally never seen those.

[A]

All right, so that's what, that's what they are. So what do you think? That thing sitting out there, baking in the sun, held in plastic. Are these things still going to be effective?

[B]

Well, I think it depends on the formula. Right. So typically for cosmetic products and OTC drug products, we have to do stability testing. And OTC sunscreens actually have a little bit more rigorous stability testing requirements because they have to be held at elevated temperature for six months, not three months, like a ordinary cosmetic product.

[A]

45C for that long?

[B]

Yeah, exactly. And so this is to not only simulate what's happening in short term exposure, but long term exposure. And you would also include maybe even like an even more elevated temperature exposure, like 50 degrees Celsius or 60 degrees Celsius with humidity, which is also really stressful on a product. And the product has to have the same physical and chemical properties at the very end of this holding time and temperature that it did at the beginning or at least be in the acceptable range. So. And so I feel like they do work depending how long they're sitting out in the heat, I guess because it's not all day unless you're in Texas where It's, you know, 101 during the day and 101 at 2 in the morning.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You have this really high humidity. But you know, because I think it's more cycling, it's not like constant exposure. So you buy yourself a little bit more time. But it does again depend on the sunscreen. Because sometimes you have a sunscreen sitting in your bag or car on a hot day and it's totally liquefied and you have to like shake it up before you dispense it out. So I would say depends on the formula. And I would be interested if I had endless amounts of money to go sample some and send it to an SPF testing facility.

[A]

Yeah, I have to agree with you. It's going to depend on a few, a couple of things. How long it has been there, how much exposure has it had, and what's the formula? Was the formula a good formula, a bad formula? I think if it's a formula from one of the big guys like banana boats or one of those, those have been rigorously stability tested.

[B]

They've got a lot of eyeballs on them.

[A]

Yeah. But if it's been out there for, you know, a season and a half and it's been. Been particularly hot, I could see how that could be problematic. I imagine that these things would be used up pretty quickly, so I was just gonna say, yeah, so I guess I would have faith in them. But, yeah, stability could be a problem. But if it was well formulated, it probably isn't going to be a problem.

[B]

It's times like this I wish I owned my own testing facility. And I could just say, hey, Rhonda, throw this in the next testing cycle, and it's a bunch of little ketchup cups where I've cut. Collected all of the sunscreens from these stands, and we throw them in a testing. That'd be cool.

[A]

Yeah, that would be cool. Speaking of cool, we got one more question and another audio one. This comes to us from Barry, and embarrassingly enough.

[B]

I'm just kidding. Barry Perry also requested for the voice to be read in a Barry White smooth, jazzy kind of voice. Oh, yeah, Barry requested that.

[A]

All right, so here it is. Hey, guys. I just started following your show. I love how you break it down into sections for us busy people who are anxious to hear about specific things. I have been wondering about how the light from cell phones and computer screens affects your skin. There's been a lot written about blue light's effect on the sleep cycle, of course, but what about wrinkles and the dreaded crepe? And what about the other spectrums these things give off? Well, I hope, Barry, you enjoyed that voice that we had there. But as far as this light goes from cell phones, first off, the amount of light that you're getting, blue light you're getting from your cell phone is minuscule compared to what you get from the sun.

[B]

So the sun has so much, not only blue light, but green light, red.

[A]

Light, yellow light, every lights, and it just way overwhelms anything you'd get from your. From your phone. Now, how about your computer screen? You're in front of the computer screen the whole time, but still, once you walk outside, you're just getting so much more. So I. I'm skeptical that the amount of screen time you have would have any measurable effect on your skin.

[B]

But what about your eyes?

[A]

Oh, well, it could be bad on your eyes, but the straining of your eyes, right? I. I'm not sure that the specific light that's reflected into your eyes is going to be bad. I mean, your eyes evolved to look at stuff, right?

[B]

Well, yeah, but was it designed to look at. And have we evolved enough in the last 20 years to where we can handle a really concentrated wavelength of blue light reaching the backs of our eyes?

[A]

Well, we definitely haven't evolved in 20 years as it takes a lot longer for things to happen. But it has our, our eyes adapted to it. I imagine more people have bad eyesight because of how much they're looking at screens. But as far as affecting your skin and wrinkles and such, there's no way there's going to be like a measurable effect from those specific screens.

[B]

I think it's worse for your eyes and brain than it is for your skin, for sure. Because I read that blue light can impact your circadian rhythm. It can impact your sleep cycle because, I mean, that's part of your circadian rhythm, but can suppress melatonin. So I've read those things and I believe it. And I generally don't like to look at blue light. It gives me a headache. So I. All my screens are yellow, which, you know, I really, really enjoy. But in terms of your skin care, you're absolutely right. While blue light does generate reactive oxygen species, which are like free radicals that kind of do a lot of damage within the cells, I just don't think that there's enough coming from your cell phone or computer or television to do the things that visible light is purported to do, like hyperpigmentation, collagen degradation. Visible light is also responsible for hair fading of your natural melanin in your hair. Most people don't talk about that, but I do to everybody, so.

[A]

Well, there's. There's definitely this light can have an effect on your skin. It's just the amount that you're getting from screen screens. Yeah, it's just negligible.

[B]

And a lot of the industry has focused on, you know, device blue light protection as like a selling point. Remember, like in 2016, 2017, there was this big push of blue light data from different companies. Oh, sure. And I've even asked them because I'm, you know, in hair, there's some new research, research that came out maybe 10 years ago that indicated a lot of people think UV fades your melanin. Your melanin actually is defense from UV. Visible light is what degrades your melanin within your hair. And so, you know, there's this push just for blue light from screens. And I always ask the raw material supplier as well. Have you looked at the whole visible light spectrum? I think there's opportunity there, and they haven't. They're just focusing on devices, but I think it's more of the times versus like real robust, well thought out, holistic science.

[A]

Yeah, to me this is a marketing story that is based on some valid science, but the impact of it is way overblown. And you know, that's pretty typical for the beauty industry. So I wouldn't worry about the light that you're getting from your cell phone.

[B]

Speaking of overblown, this episode has passed its time limit. Thanks for listening everyone. If you get a chance, head over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to the show and leave us a review that's going to help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer.

[A]

And it's going to ensure that we try. And if you have a question, just record it on your smartphone and email it to the beautybrains gmail.com or you can just use the form in the show notes on this episode. Or if you want to get your voice on here, just call our number, 872-216-81-856. That's 872-216-1856.

[B]

Call in next 30 minutes for your favorite gift.

[A]

Yeah, feel free.

[B]

The way you said that was like an info virtual. Oh, I missed the infomercial delivery joke. Joke of the delivery of the joke.

[A]

Oh wow, it was so close. Like the end of this show is close. Hey, the Beauty Brains are also on Patreon. If you like what we do. And the fact that we don't take sponsored posts and get paid by some corporation to say good things about their products or even take advertising, that's because we are supported by parents, patrons and if you want to help support the show and because it's not free to do, you can help us out by going to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe at any level. Your questions also get a higher priority and you can get a transcript of the show.

[B]

Don't forget to follow us on our various social media accounts. On Instagram, we're at The Beauty Brains 2018 on expert. The Beauty Brains on Blue sky, we're at the Beauty Brains. We have a Facebook page and a tick tock which we had to change the name on.

[A]

Turns out yeah, we lost the Beauty Brain so now we're the Beauty Brains. Something else.

[B]

We forgot the number.

[A]

You know, I'll put it in the show notes. Also, we're on YouTube. So every show that you can listen to here, but you can also listen to it through YouTube and you know, we got a few. You know, a few people are listening to that through YouTube, so.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Someday we might actually put our own Faces on YouTube. Someday. But then I'd have to comb my hair, which.

[B]

Yeah, not today. We're not looking good. Thanks again for listening, everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.

[A]

Thanks, everyone. Kittens.