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- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm Perry, and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Hello and welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 418. I'm your host, Perry Romanoski, and with me today is Valerie George. Hello, Valerie.
- [00:29]
B
Hi. Hi, Perry.
- [00:30]
A
Hey, Valerie. We got a lot of questions today, and on the show today, we're going to cover questions including how much does it really cost to make products? Does goat milk have benefit on skin? Is Paula's choice new serum really amazing? Is glycerin bad for hair? And what ingredients should you look for in a makeup primer? But before that, let's do some of that chit chat. Valerie, I want to thank. Thank you for squeezing me in here between baby duty here.
- [00:59]
B
Oh, yeah. Baby C is napping. So we basically don't have a lot of time, right? Yeah. Mr. Cosmetic Chemist is gone. Ordinarily he would be helping. He is attending the AFC championship.
- [01:12]
A
Oh, American football. That's right.
- [01:14]
B
Yep. A little guy trip that he's taking. And so I'm alone. And of course, it's the weekend that a giant snow snowstorm hits Texas. And I am essentially trapped at my house because they don't do anything to the roads here. And all I want are some donuts that are around the corner from. You know, so I'm just.
- [01:35]
A
Yeah. And you know, you're. You're an Ohio girl. Like, you're used to snow.
- [01:39]
B
I can drive on it, but it's not really snow. It's ice.
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A
Oh, yeah, yeah.
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B
It's like. It's like an ice sheet on the ground.
- [01:48]
A
So they also don't clear the roads very well there in Texas, Right?
- [01:51]
B
They actually do not clear the roads at all. So it's not. Well, it's at all. So basically I'm trapped at the house. And when Mr. Cosmetic Chemist takes care of Baby C, when I have a work trip, like, we board the dogs, you know, we make it as, like, stress free as possible. But we didn't do that this time. And I'm dealing with Butch and Frank. I'm dealing with baby C. I'm dealing with Doug. You know, it's just a lot. Doug the cat? Yeah.
- [02:18]
A
You got cats and dogs? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I've got one of the porch kitties trying to move in now.
- [02:25]
B
Wow. Which one?
- [02:26]
A
The heat miser. He's come in the house. Yeah. I mean, before he would come in a little bit, but he didn't get along with Teddy very well, so. In fact, they've had a couple of fights, so. So I pretty much kept him outside. But sad to report, Teddy is no longer. He passed away, so. Yeah, it was tough. He had cancer and it was pretty spread pretty far, so.
- [02:56]
B
Oh, no.
- [02:58]
A
Yeah, we're pretty sad about that. But, you know, then the heat miser, I guess he decided, like, we needed a cat around.
- [03:05]
B
I guess Teddy's out. I'm in. Aw, he didn't waste a second. But you're such a good cat, dad. You have so many kitties to comfort you during this time.
- [03:14]
A
There are, you know, another six out there. And we're having a white out right here in Chicago. There's like a blizzard, so it's.
- [03:21]
B
Yeah.
- [03:22]
A
So the cats are loving the snow, but they love that I still feed them, so there is that.
- [03:26]
B
Oh, good. Do they really like the snow?
- [03:29]
A
Yeah, they kind of run around in it. I mean, they like to play in it and chase the. The little flakes.
- [03:34]
B
Oh, that's so fun.
- [03:36]
A
Yeah. Then they have to find shelter and hide.
- [03:39]
B
Yeah. Oh, goodness. Well, with the snow comes cold. It's, you know, about 20 degrees here, which is unusual for Texas, so. Yeah. Doug is not going outside, needless to say.
- [03:52]
A
Well, I have to say it was minus nine here in Chicago.
- [03:55]
B
Oh, okay.
- [03:56]
A
So there you go. Hey, weather cats. How about we move on to the news? Valerie, this one kind of made the rounds. The FDA did a report on the pfas. What is that? Poly.
- [04:16]
B
Poly perfluoro alkynated substances. So basically a fully fluorinated carbon atom.
- [04:24]
A
On a molecule, Right, Right. So the FDA issued a report and PFAs sort of have made the news because they're called the forever chemicals, which essentially they just don't really break down very quickly out in the environment. And so that's why they're considered concerning. So the FDA issued a report, which they're required to do under the new MOCRA rules. At the end of December, they reviewed the intentionally added pfas in cosmetics. So not the contaminants, just the intentionally added stuff. And they found the toxicological data for most of these substances was either incomplete or unavailable. They identified 51 PFAs across over 1700 formulations, and about 96% of them were only 25 were most frequently used. And so I guess what that all means is that they just didn't find enough evidence to say that they were exactly safe. So I don't know exactly what that means for the industry.
- [05:40]
B
Well, there's not it's interesting because this actually isn't just a US problem, it's a world problem because, you know, these materials are also used in the EU, for example. And so all countries are kind of going through this piece right now, except France. Instead of reviewing anything, they said, well, we'll just ban every PFAS. One of them is a newer hair colorant, HC Yellow 13, which has tons of safety data behind it. I was not surprised that it made the list of low safety concern because hair colorants are so thoroughly studied before they can enter the market.
- [06:18]
A
Right.
- [06:18]
B
But everything else, yeah, you know, it's interesting. There's materials that have PFAs that you wouldn't know about. So for example, some peptides, a little tiny amount of a PFAS type molecule will actually help stabilize a peptide. So some of the peptide manufacturers have gone back and made PFAS free versions.
- [06:38]
A
Oh, right.
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B
Even though not to say that they're not safe, but just to kind of get ahead of all of these laws where they're just being kind of blanket banned.
- [06:47]
A
Well, you know, in my formulating life, I can only think of one time that I used a pfas. We had this leave in conditioner which had a secret ingredient, but it was perfluorinated. So that was the only time mostly we didn't use it. So I was a little confused at how much it's been used in cosmetics. And so they're used for film formers, for water resistant lipsticks, foundations, eyeliner. So you find them in color cosmetics because they're really good for helping with waterproofing and wear resistance. They're also texture modifiers and some they can help stabilize surfactants and help contribute to shine. I mean, a lot of those things can be done with silicones, but they still find them in. They still use PFAS in a bunch of different cosmetics, but I think it's mostly color cosmetics.
- [07:46]
B
I think it's a lot of skin care as well. Yeah, I know that the K Beauty bubble masks, so you maybe leave like a cleanser on your skin and over time it will bubble up and create all these oxygen bubbles. Sometimes those that technology of self bubbling sometimes can use PFAs. Not always, but sometimes. So not too much in hair care, which is probably why we haven't interacted with it. But we'll definitely see a lot of change in the marketplace, I think, based on if those have to be removed or not.
- [08:18]
A
Well, so you might be wondering though, does this FDA say, since they can't say safety, does this mean they're unsafe. And it should be noted that, you know, for most intentionally added pfas and cosmetics, while there isn't enough toxicology or exposure data, you can't really say they're safe or unsafe. So the, you know, so as a class there's concern, but still when you're making cosmetics, you're not allowed to sell unsafe cosmetics. So for formulations, they looked at the products to determine the safety of whatever product is being used. It's just that this one, for the specific ingredients, it's harder to tell. Safety data.
- [09:02]
B
Yeah. What else did you see this week?
- [09:06]
A
Well, whenever I got into the industry, the number one thing I heard that's coming up, it's on the cusp is the development of the men's market.
- [09:17]
B
Oh, it always comes up. It's gonna be booming. It's gonna be booming and it never booms.
- [09:23]
A
It never booms. And so here's an article that says the best skin care for men. Strive is recognized as a leading men's brand for ingredient transparency and science backed formulas. And have you heard of the Strive brand?
- [09:40]
B
I have not.
- [09:42]
A
Well, Strive Band was started apparently by a cosmetic chemist. You know, you don't find a lot of cosmetic chemists started brands. And why do you think that is, Valerie?
- [09:58]
B
Cosmetic chemists are really great at formulating. They may not necessarily be really good at marketing supply chain. All the other pieces that come with selling a product, it's not always about the formula.
- [10:12]
A
Yeah, it's kind of like a good cook may not necessarily make a good restaurateur.
- [10:17]
B
Right, Exactly.
- [10:19]
A
It's a whole different kind of business. I always think they, for me personally, I would have a hard time starting a line because you have to kind of tell a story to sell cosmetics or beauty products. And you know, I can't tell that story to say, hey, use my skin lotion instead of using the Suave lotion, which will work just as good, but mine costs three times as much. So when you're a marketer of products, you really have to believe your own stories. And when you're a scientist, you're kind of driven to figure out what's really true. And so I have a hard time separating the truth from a good story to sell a product.
- [11:03]
B
Do you mean a story like most men's skincare products don't contain ingredients at meaningful levels like Strive alleges against other brands?
- [11:13]
A
Right. That kind of thing. Strive claims up to five times higher active ingredient concentrations.
- [11:19]
B
Like what does that even mean?
- [11:21]
A
I don't know. Yeah, I guess you'd have to know what's the concentration that other. So if they put in a other men's product, they put what, 0.1% retinol. So this one has 0.5% retinol. So I don't know, how would they even know what the other people are putting in there?
- [11:39]
B
They wouldn't. And so I think that it goes back to where the story is. And I'd also like to say that sometimes it's not about the concentration of the active, it's how the product is performing at a whole. I always tell people, like, don't get caught up in ingredient percentages because at the end of the day there are synergies with other materials, there's delivery systems.
- [11:59]
A
Right.
- [11:59]
B
People always get hung up that proteins or peptides, excuse me, are always at the like very bottom of an ingredient list. And it's like, yeah, you wouldn't use a peptide at more than active concentration, 0.2, maybe 0.5%. So it doesn't mean anything.
- [12:16]
A
Yeah, the percentages are not helpful. It depends on how they're formulated. One of the things I will mention about this brand and you know, I like to encourage certainly my fellow cosmetic chemists to launch products, but come on with the marketing here. One of the quotes says making sure men aren't buying on vibes and hoping it works. They want it to be science. And you know, calling this a science backed brand, sort of implying that other brands aren't science backed. I mean everybody's science back. We, you know, everybody has cosmetic chemists that are making their products for them. It just the, you know, I don't know, it's, I don't like science exploitation in marketing, as it were.
- [13:06]
B
And like this guy figured something out that other big companies couldn't. I don't know.
- [13:12]
A
No, I mean, come on. So congratulations on Strive for being the recognized as the AOL Product of the Month in August of 2025 and the Best Skincare Brands for Men in 2026. Although the month just started. I don't know how he already won that, but congratulations there. Good luck to him. You know, I always like to encourage entrepreneurs in the space.
- [13:40]
B
It's a bold move. And his product line does look great.
- [13:42]
A
Yeah. All right, let's move on to some questions.
- [13:50]
B
So the following question, Perry, we're actually going to remove some of the sensitive information like the company name and some of the formula names because the question included a lot of sensitive confidential information that this person received from someone who worked at this company. And I actually Was shocked that that was forwarded and honestly, a little bit appalled. So just to protect the company because we're in the industry, we did redact some information.
- [14:19]
A
Right. But we're covering it mostly because it raises an interesting question about the cost of products. So why don't you. Yeah, this is an anonymous one that came into us. And why don't you go ahead and read it?
- [14:31]
B
Valerie, Someone who works for this very large corporation sent me the attached. Most shocking to me is that this particular very expensive formula found in high end department stores only costs $21 per kilo to make. And the formula is super basic. And the total package cost of goods for a $390. 60ml cream is only $12.
- [14:53]
A
Whoa.
- [14:54]
B
This very large company isn't much better with their other product costing only $6.75. I've sent this info to most news channels already. More coming soon.
- [15:06]
A
Dun, dun, dun. So I thought this was interesting and I was a little suspicious, but I looked at the attached formulas. I'm like, yeah, that's probably the formula. So, well, somebody over at big company has got a leak on their hands, but whoo. All right. But. But I thought it was interesting. Like, this is a 12. It costs them $12 to make a product that they then sell for $390. Is that common in our industry?
- [15:35]
B
Well, I think it's common, but I think it's a very narrow angle to look at the cost of a product because you have all of these other hidden costs that aren't part of a tangible cost of goods format and that wouldn't be included in this document that you're looking at. So, for example, this costing document somebody sent us. So if, for example, you have marketing spend, you have overhead freight, which by the way, is very expensive, it's about a dollar per pound per ingredient. You know, when we arrange freight for our businesses and finished goods would be about the same. You have the people overhead, you have all of these things. And I'm not saying the $12 justifies the cost of 390, but there is a lot that you don't see included in that. And also too, I would like to point out, like, this is a capitalistic society, right? And so companies, you know, they sell a story, they sell a dream to people, and, you know, it's kind of their right to do that. I don't think they're duping anybody. I think the formula that formulas that are being referenced are really great formulas. I know people on the inside who, you know, they have actually Validated clinically, all the clinical testing for every claim that they're saying, and. And not just for the finished product. This particular company, they have a whole department delegated to ingredient confirmation. So all of the ingredients they use. If the supplier says the ingredient does this, this company says, oh, yeah, we're going to double check your work.
- [17:18]
A
Right.
- [17:19]
B
So there's a lot of costs that you don't see.
- [17:22]
A
Exactly. It's not so simple. And the reality is there's also the prestige of this brand. People wouldn't want to buy this product if it was cheaper. You know, there are some brands that are really cheap. So if you like cheap stuff, go buy Suave or V05 or whatever. If you like expensive stuff, then buy that expensive stuff. The cost of a product in the cosmetic industry rarely is reflected in the cost that it costs you to buy it. So you. If there is a $300 cream. Yeah, you can find a $20 cream that works just as well, but you're not gonna feel the same about it. A lot of what cosmetics is about is the way you feel when you're using a product. And so I don't think this is as shocking as the person who sent this to us thinks it is. It's like, yeah, we've been telling people this forever. Yeah, it doesn't cost that much money to make these things, but. But there's a lot more that goes into it than just the cost of goods.
- [18:29]
B
Exactly.
- [18:31]
A
All right, sounds like Baby C wants us to move on to the next question. And look at this. A question from superfan Timothy, who has been with us on Patreon for a long time. Timothy says, hey, beauty brains. I have two questions. One, is there any benefit to goat milk on the skin? I love the way it feels, but haven't looked into whether it actually helps. And two, what are your thoughts on the new Paula's Choice serum? For some reason, I'm drawn to it, but the price makes me want to cry. Do you think it's worth giving it a shot? All right, let's start with the goat's milk. Yeah, I mean, it's not bad. There's nothing special about goat's milk, right?
- [19:15]
B
Well, I think that people have been using it for millennia, and I think that's perfectly fine. I don't think there's an issue with that. I think a lot of people like it. The brand Beekman 1802, or I think you say 1802, the Beekman brand, they're built. They're built on goat milk. Their products are really nice. Their founders are great. So I think there's no harm in using it. Now, is there a superior benefit to other conventional skincare ingredients or even more novel skincare ingredients? No, I don't think so. But a lot of people do enjoy using goat milk soaps, goat milk creams. And I think if you love it, at the end of the day, that's actually the biggest thing. Now, I'm not aware of any studies that have been conducted on goat's milk. I'm sure there's literature on the composition and how it varies compared to other animal milks. But in terms of actual, you know, what is it doing on a cellular level? I don't know. I don't think there's anything out there.
- [20:18]
A
Yeah, I mean, this is not the kind of thing people would spend money to research because it's already used in products. But I will say this about it. You know, it's been used for millennia, right? This, you know, it comes out of a goat.
- [20:34]
B
You put it on your skin, Cleopatra goat milk baths, exfoliating her skin with the lactic acid, et cetera.
- [20:41]
A
So it has long lasting power. So it's, you know, has some benefits. But the cosmetic industry didn't stop developing once goat milk was found. Right. It's because. Because it's lacking. Right. It's not really gonna give you great moisturizing. It's not gonna dry fix dry skin very well. It'll do it a little bit. But that's why science advances, because we're solving problems that haven't yet been solved. And goat milk, nice as it is, it doesn't solve your real skin problems. So I don't think there's anything really bad about it. It's just not terribly impressive, Timothy.
- [21:18]
B
The most important thing is, if you love it, keep going with it. Of course, I, you know, I find it okay. You know, it's not my favorite thing in the world, but I do think, you know, it's a little nice if that's your preference.
- [21:30]
A
It does not work very well with pudding. Like, I like to. What?
- [21:35]
B
You don't like goat milk pudding? I've never even heard of that. I've heard of, like, you know, goat's milk cheese is great, but a sweet pudding with goat's milk?
- [21:44]
A
Well, yeah, I mean, I like. You like pudding?
- [21:48]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [21:49]
A
See, cow's milk pudding, goat milk, what's the difference?
- [21:54]
B
The goat milk?
- [21:57]
A
Well, I don't. Incidentally, my wife thinks it's ridiculous that I like pumpkin. Is there. Pudding's a Good dessert, right?
- [22:07]
B
It's a good dessert, but I feel like there's a lot of better desserts out there.
- [22:12]
A
But you get the little box, you throw in two cups of milk, you stir it for five minutes, and you've got pudding.
- [22:18]
B
Yeah, that's true.
- [22:19]
A
It's good. But she's like, you know, there's only two types of people that eat pudding. Little kids and old people.
- [22:28]
B
Well, I think. Not to point the latter out, but let's talk about this Paula's Choice serum.
- [22:35]
A
Let's do that.
- [22:36]
B
So I actually haven't tried it yet, but I'll tell you why I will never try it.
- [22:40]
A
Let me tell you the product first. It's called Paula's Choice Cellular youth longevity serum. 30 mils for 72 bucks. Whoa. Okay, I can see which for Paula's.
- [22:51]
B
Choice is on the higher end.
- [22:53]
A
That is on the higher end. Yeah. There you go. So what is this? What are they claiming? It does it.
- [23:00]
B
Well, let me tell you. Well, why I'll never try this serum, Perry.
- [23:03]
A
Okay. Why is that? It's not the goatee fruit, is it?
- [23:07]
B
No, it's preserved with hydroxyacetophenone, which is a great preservative. I'm sensitive to the smell of it for some reason. I could pick it out from a mile away in a product. And so I could just never have this on my skin because I'll be able to smell. I'm just. I'm super sensitive to it.
- [23:28]
A
Wow. Yeah. You're probably like one of those super smellers, huh?
- [23:31]
B
Yeah, I think so. So, yeah, not for me. But let's take a look at what's in it and what they claim it does.
- [23:37]
A
Yeah. So they say the key ingredients are sunflower sprout extract and then goji fruit extract, and of course, acetyl tetrapeptide 2. You know, these are nothing terribly impressive there. The rest of it is like basic humectants. The emollients, they have dimethicone silicone there. So, you know, there. There aren't a lot of. I don't. I don't know what's terribly impressive about this. I've seen all of these ingredients before, but they do claim that it helps your skin look up to eight years younger. Whoa.
- [24:22]
B
Wow. That must have been from a consumer perception survey.
- [24:26]
A
I'm curious. Whenever I hear stuff like that, I'm like, well, if you were 24 and you use this, would it mean your skin looked like you have acne? What?
- [24:35]
B
I know exactly. Like, what does that even mean?
- [24:38]
A
Right? Don't Give this to your 8 year old toddler or whatever.
- [24:42]
B
They will be like a newborn. Do not go back in time, trust me.
- [24:46]
A
Well, okay, so it's easy enough to get a product, to get this support this claim that it makes it look eight years younger because you know, it's just a, here, use this product. Does your skin look younger and how old? And you know, when people assess stuff like that, they'll just say whatever it says improves the appearance of skin sagging in tone, which who doesn't? And then 100% of people said skin looked more youthful, vibrant and firm after three weeks of use. So there we go.
- [25:20]
B
I would love to see. I mean, I was telling someone the other day, like the consumer perception studies are like the easiest win because you basically ask a ton of questions, right? And you don't lead horse to water per se, but you can basically say, oh, do you think your skin looks 15 years younger, five years younger? And you could take an average of all the respondents and get to a number of eight. Or of course, like this is going to make your skin look really great when you put it on. Most people when they do these studies, they're just like average people. Right. And they're, you're more conscious. You have a really dedicated routine when you're testing this stuff. So I always say if you're unsure, your clinicals will pass. Like, do a consumer perception study.
- [26:04]
A
Yeah, consumer perception.
- [26:05]
B
You'll find something to say and if it wasn't these things, they would find something else.
- [26:10]
A
Exactly. So I don't know, it's, you know, Paula's choice. I think they're owned by Unilever now.
- [26:17]
B
They are.
- [26:18]
A
I always think everybody's owned by Unilever.
- [26:20]
B
Exactly. You do, yeah.
- [26:23]
A
But, you know, so they're gonna put out a decent product. I'm frankly, I'm a little shocked at a $72 unit here.
- [26:31]
B
But people will pay it. People will pay more. In fact, as we know from the previous question. But there is one thing I do like without trying this product. I, I mean, well, first of all, I'm actually a little surprised that they have so many gums present in here. But they have two polymers that I really like the feel of. They kind of collapse quickly on the skin. So it has this like almost like melting sensation that it becomes one with your skin. Hydroxyethyl acrylate, sodium acryloyl, dimethyl taurate, copolymer and acrylate C1030 alkyl acrylate cross polymer. It also has a Sesi acetyl group gum, Senegal gum in it, which is a really nice gum as well, to help it feel a little soft and substantive on skin. So this looks like a great formula. Is it going to give you the cellular youth longevity you're looking for? Probably as good as any other serum.
- [27:25]
A
Right. But if you want to look eight years younger or convince yourself you do, this is probably for you. For me personally, you know, that's a lot of money to spend on it. But don't take beauty buying advice from me or beauty using advice from me.
- [27:41]
B
Well, they could take beauty buying advice from me. And if you buy it and try it, Timothy, and you love it, keep going. But I probably wouldn't get to that point. I probably would spend money elsewhere.
- [27:55]
A
All right, we have another question comes.
- [27:57]
B
To us from Sumia. Dear Perry and Valerie, I wanted to thank you for the effort and transparency. You don't know how much it means to us customers. I have a couple questions. I don't know if I'm allowed, but I'll rank them by priority. What are the ingredients we should look for or avoid in a shampoo and conditioner for hair loss and for dry hair? Are really these products different for each hair type like they claim?
- [28:20]
A
Okay, well, let's. Let's take that one first. Well, I think the answer there depends that second part. So are the products really different for each hair type? Well, let me tell you how it worked when I was on the VO5.
- [28:34]
B
Brand, and then I'll tell you how it worked at a salon professional brand.
- [28:38]
A
On the VO5 brand, if you wanted to make something like moisturizing, you'd add a little guar to your formula and you'd reduce the surfactant level. The idea is the guar will plate out onto the hair and it will give some of that moisturizing. And reducing the surfactant level will make it a little less stripping. And so compared to, like, VO5, normal VO5 moisturizing was a tiny bit different. In reality, it's not that different. The same was true for, like, a volumizing. You'd increase the surfactant level. That way it would strip more off and it would give your hair a more of a poofy look. And so when companies will market to different hair types, sometimes they make them significantly different, but a lot of times they don't. They just tweak their formula a little bit. And, you know, the reality also is that consumers aren't particularly good at telling differences. We did a home use test of Pantene Right. Blinded test. And we use exactly the same Pantene formula. We just put it in white bottles and tested it. And one of them, we told them, this is a volumizing shampoo. And another one, we said, this is a moisturizing shampoo. And consumers liked them both. They couldn't tell. They thought, oh, yeah, this is volumizing. And the moisturizing people thought, oh, yeah, this is moisturizing. The reality is they were exactly the same. So consumers aren't great at telling differences, even if they believe they need a certain product.
- [30:17]
B
I will agree with that. I think also shampoos and conditioners, they all, in a way, do more than one thing. And so I can see where you would believe it does many claims right now. I would also agree that in the olden days, and I feel like I can say that because you're a pudding eater, at least in my experience, with older formulas, they would. You would leverage a chassis and you would make very, you know, slight tweaks. But, you know, the newer marketing teams, they never liked that. So we had to make distinctly unique formulations where, you know, for volumizing products, the goal was actually to use as little things as possible because the more stuff you put in, the more stuck to hair and actually weighed hair down, giving a lack of volumizing effect. And then for strength, you know, we would say, okay, let's, you know, put proteins and other things in that are known to increase the strength of hair. For shine, you know, we might load it up with silicones that have a lot of high refractive indices. Then we would get them to stick to the hair so they would be a little bit different. The most important thing is that if a brand is making these claims, they have to support them. So if, at least in Europe or if you're even a big brand brand, you would get challenged by another competitor company through the national advertising division in the us there's a similar association. At least in the uk, another brand will say, prove that it's for dry hair or prove that it. It does.
- [31:48]
A
This your evidence?
- [31:49]
B
Yeah, I don't think you can do it. And so all of these companies are doing claims testing where they can at least, whether it's consumer perception or, you know, some clinical instrumentation methods, they're going to do those claims. So I would say, yes, they could be slightly different. Yeah, but they definitely support the claim for the hair, which is the most important thing.
- [32:13]
A
The more differences you're going to see is between brands. So if you get, you know, a finesse is finesse still around?
- [32:22]
B
Actually, they are, because I was at a hotel at a contract manufacturing facility and Finesse was the toiletry in the hotel. And I was like, this is fantastic because their shampoo is really good.
- [32:36]
A
Sure, sure. But the difference between the Finesse, different flavors of finesse versus different flavors of Paul Mitchell or VO5 or TRESemme or Tresemme, those are gonna. There's much bigger differences between brands than within the same brand, you know, and that's just because of economies of scale. These companies, they don't want to buy 100 different surfactants when they were going to make, you know, 10 different shampoos. They want to make, buy, you know, a couple of different detergents so they can buy them in bulk and everything is less expensive.
- [33:10]
B
Exactly.
- [33:11]
A
Now, as far as ingredients to look for, for hair loss or dry hair, you got any thoughts there?
- [33:17]
B
Well, it's really a complex topic because no shampoo and conditioner will aid in hair loss. If you did have a hair loss aid product, it's a leave in because the scalp is so thick. It's an average of 8 millimeters of thickness.
- [33:31]
A
Well, you could use Minoxidil because I remember we used. I worked in a brand called Consort, Consort for men. It was out there before Strive, but we had a deal with the makers of Minoxidil where we incorporated it into shampoos, conditioners and a leave in.
- [33:49]
B
That doesn't mean it works like the primary mechanism is leave in. Right. If it worked, Rogaine would have come out with, you know, said, forget about the leave in. Use a shampoo and conditioner.
- [34:00]
A
Yeah, you're right. It's one of those ingredients. It's got to stay on. And I.
- [34:04]
B
So I recommend a leave in, you know, a shampoo and conditioner. I would say it's hard to say, here's the ingredients to avoid or look for, because I don't think this is not only the primary mechanism, but I don't think that anything would work even if they did claim it. The biggest claim is hair loss due to breakage. That's a very common qualifier that brands use. So I would say that is your best bet if you have fine, thinning, brittle hair. I would look for thinner, lighter shampoos and conditioners. They're easier to work through the hair to help reduce breakage. But I don't think there's any smoking gun where it's like, oh, avoid smoking silicones or avoid this. Like, it doesn't work like that.
- [34:47]
A
I agree. All right, how about that? 2nd Another question that she had, Sumia.
- [34:53]
B
Says, I've heard some hair specialists and hair specialists is in air quotations. So thank you. Because there's many people who claim to be hair experts online.
- [35:03]
A
It's actually actual quotations because we're reading it. But air quotes is.
- [35:07]
B
Yeah. On our end. Yeah, right, you knew what I meant.
- [35:12]
A
Okay, air quotes. What did she say?
- [35:14]
B
Hair specialists saying that ingredients like glycerin, which are humectants, are not good for the hair fiber. Is it true?
- [35:21]
A
You know, I've seen this. I frequent the Reddit hair science stuff and on occasion people will be like, glycerin's terrible for your hair. And I'm like, I don't know where this comes from.
- [35:32]
B
It comes from glycerin being a humectant. It attracts water to hair.
- [35:37]
A
Yeah.
- [35:38]
B
And helps contribute to hair swelling and what's constituted as hygral fatigue, which is a non scientific phenomenon, it's a consumer phenomenon. And I don't know that there is any evidence for that. I just know that in my experience, if you're formulating a rinse off product, glycerin is innocent. It's not going to do anything to hair like a shampoo, for example.
- [36:01]
A
It rinses away with the water and.
- [36:04]
B
Its primary purpose is to help stabilize the hair product.
- [36:08]
A
I personally think that you shouldn't put glycerin in a shampoo because it will kill your foam a little bit.
- [36:16]
B
It also decreases your viscosity and so you have to add other stuff or increase your overall surfactant load to help compensate for that viscosity loss. So I only put enough to help the job per se.
- [36:30]
A
Well, one of the reasons that you do put glycerin in is it's a stability thing. And so when you're shipping around products and it gets cold out, you don't want your product to freeze and that could happen. And so if you incorporate some sort of hydrotrope like glycerin, it's going to prevent that freezing, so it'll reduce the freezing point. So that's one of the main reasons that glycerin actually is in a rinse off, not for how it's going to work on your hair.
- [36:57]
B
Now personally, I don't think glycerin is bad for the hair fiber as a leave in because you actually can't really put that much in a leave on product because it's so sticky and it creates a lot of drag on the hair fiber. So let's say you have a detangling spray and you put even 1% glycerin in it, it actually contradicts the detangling aspect because it increases the force required for you to get a comb through the hair. And it also feels very negative.
- [37:25]
A
Right.
- [37:25]
B
So if you had to put a little in, you would only put a very tiny, tiny bit. But it's a preference thing. On my hand, it's not like, wow, that it's terrible for the hair fiber. Don't put it in.
- [37:36]
A
Right.
- [37:37]
B
I don't know where that came from. It's more or less like a performance aspect.
- [37:41]
A
Now it sounds like Baby C loves glycerin in hair too.
- [37:45]
B
You know, he has not said anything for like two days. He's just been relaxing, observing, and now he's like on a. On one.
- [37:54]
A
Well, he'll be happy to know we only got one more question left.
- [37:58]
B
Well, our last question's an audio question.
- [38:00]
A
Comes to us from Rachel. Let me play that now.
- [38:04]
C
Hi, beauty brains. My name is Rachel and you don't know it, but I am your number one fan. Actually, let me fangirl for one second before we get into my question. I'm 53. If I could go back to school now, I could. But like realistically go back to school, I would become a cosmetic chemist because of you guys. And don't ever stop the inane chitchat. And I cannot stop listening to your show until I hear Perry say kittens. Okay, now on to my question. So like I said, 53 years old. I live in Las Vegas. So in the the desert, very dry here. I also tend to have dry skin. I lost 130 pounds, so my skin is sagging somewhat. I'm trying to do all I can to take care of it with my 15 step skincare. Perry, please don't have a heart attack right now, but my question is about primers for makeup and setting sprays for makeup. I'm trying to figure out what ingredient or ingredients I specifically should be looking for. What I want in my primer for my makeup is something that will somewhat blur my wrinkles but also have my makeup stay. But most primers that I'm seeing with the staying power mattify you. And that is the last thing I want to do is mattify my face. I have used the Tatcha primer and I like it. I just don't know if it's the best one out there for me. I'm always trying to find the best without the marketing hype. So what ingredients should I be looking for for a makeup primer? That will blur, but not mattify, but help my wrinkles. And then at the opposite end of my makeup application is what setting spray should I be using for the same process? I really appreciate your help and this is very long winded, so happy New Year and thanks so much.
- [39:58]
A
Okay, well, battery. I have to admit, I. I don't have a lot to say about setting sprays and makeup because I don't really use it, so.
- [40:07]
B
Oh, my gosh. Well, I don't use them either, but I have used them and I know what they are. And I'll just say that silicones are the best way to get this effect. And they're usually silicone elastomers. So essentially it's like an ordinary silicone, like dimethicone, which is the most basic silicone that you could use, but then you turn it into some kind of polymer. Right, right. Usually with vinyl might be in the name. So dimethicone, vinyl, dimethicone cross polymer. But those are called silicone elastomers. And basically they're silicones that have like some stay putiveness on the skin and they change the way light reflect refracts through them, creating this like line blurring effect. So the light isn't able to hit your wrinkles as much. It's kind of like, like when you're driving on a rainy night.
- [41:00]
A
Right.
- [41:00]
B
You can't see anything. The lights coming back off the road, hitting you in the eyes. The road looks slick. It's because water has filled in all the little tiny crevices on the road and you don't see the little crevices. Same concept here, but it's best done with silicones.
- [41:17]
A
It fills in silicone, fills in the, the fine line and then it scatters the light. So you're not going to see. See it as much. So it does actually work.
- [41:25]
B
Exactly. And there's also powders that can do it. So, for example, polysilicone 11 bismuth oxychloride silicas can be incorporated into a liquid formulation. And they do the same thing. They're little tiny spheres at this point. And those little spheres go in and fill in the lines. They also help make skin look matte. They help with oil absorption over time. But the best ingredient you can look for is a silica. Now, these aren't sexy ingredients. No one's going to be like, oh, check out our new silicone elastomer right in this product.
- [42:06]
A
But FedEx A is the thing that makes it work. So.
- [42:09]
B
Yeah, and just inherently they're used at High levels, because in these types of products, they're actually instead of being like an oil in water emulsion, they're typically water and silicone or silicone in water emulsion. So the primary materials are silicones. It's just the best way to do it. It's really hard to create a makeup primer that performs really well or do line blurring that is silicone free in the makeup world.
- [42:37]
A
Yeah, yeah. All right, Well, I hear Baby C's getting a little restless, so. And that's all I.
- [42:45]
B
Can we. Can we answer the makeup setting spray?
- [42:47]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [42:48]
B
I'm sorry.
- [42:48]
A
Okay. What about this setting spray stuff?
- [42:53]
B
So setting sprays are a little bit different. It requires a polymer essentially, to form a film on the skin and help lock everything in to prevent it from migrating. So over time, as you go throughout the day, your skin produces oil. Things might kind of shift around on top of your skin, but a setting spray has a polymer in it. There typically may be different siloxane polymers or just traditional polymers that'll form this micro film on top of your skin. Now, I don't know any in particular that leaves skin glowing and youthful, not flat and dry, because I think it's just inherent to the nature of the product.
- [43:35]
A
You know, it occurs to me what does that does make it look glowy is if you just take sunscreen and just spray it right in your face.
- [43:44]
B
You're not wrong, right?
- [43:47]
A
No, don't do that. You're not supposed to do that.
- [43:49]
B
Do not do that. So I wish I had, like, specific recommendations, but I think the best thing you can do is just do the right amount of layering and the right amount of makeup look to keep that glowy, youthful look. I'm not sure you're going to find it in a setting spray, but I wouldn't be the expert on that.
- [44:04]
A
Right. All right, Valerie. Well, I think we've answered all the questions.
- [44:10]
B
Yeah. Baby C is like, mama, get off the phone. I need you.
- [44:13]
A
I hear the music anyway, so thanks for listening.
- [44:16]
B
If you get a chance, head over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave us a review that's going to help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of Be Beauty questions to answer.
- [44:25]
A
Speaking of questions, if you have a question, just record it on your smartphone and email it to thebeautybrainsmail.com or you can use the form that's in the show notes, or you can actually call us at 1-872-216-1856. Hey, you know. Also the Beauty Brains are on Patreon. You know we don't take advertising and we don't run commercials but it does cost money to run the show. So if you want to help support the show, hey head on over to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe at any level. Your questions also get a higher priority of answered and we do a transcript and occasionally we have events just for patrons.
- [45:05]
B
Also don't forget to follow us on our various social media accounts on Instagram wrath the Beautybrains 2018 on X Ray the Beauty Brains on Blue sky Wrath of Beauty Brains. We have a Facebook page, a TikTok and a YouTube.
- [45:16]
A
Yeah we are out there.
- [45:19]
B
Well thanks again for listening everyone and big hug to all you guys, Baby C and the Kitties. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.
- [45:27]
A
Thanks everyone.
- [45:35]
D
Kittens well, Teddy's been napping the whole darn day Dreaming a mice and a grand buffet but when his belly starts to roll he's up and prowling across the floor Rubbing my leg Then my laptop too Trying to tell me what I gotta do Teddy, the hungry kitty cat He's a demon acrobat Chewin on cords blocking my screen Running wild like a furry machine Teddy, he knows how to be crude to stop my work so he gets his food.
- [46:12]
B
I'll scratch.
- [46:13]
D
A couch and shake the lamp he'll jump in plants and leave them down Knocks a candle, breaks a glass Drops a bottle to make a splash One cat ride a kitchen storm Won't give up until I'm torn Teddy the hungry kitty cat He's a demon acrobat Chewing on cords blocking my screen Running wild like a furry machine Teddy, he knows, he knows how to be crude to stop my work so he gets his food down the stairs I finally go he's twirling circles toe to toe Rubbing my legs, purring loud he thinks he's king and I'm so proud Open the can. Can't wait long he's eaten half before I'm done 10 minutes later he's got that gleam Zooming through the house full of steam Crashing chairs and bouncing walls Skidding down the hardwood halls Then he stops a sudden nap Curled up tight on my couch's lap Teddy the hungry kitty cat Came and went and he took my hat Chewing on chords blocking my screen Best little menace we've ever seen Teddy, you run this house, it's true and somehow we still wait on you now he's sleeping soft and still while I clean the mess I always will. Cuz life's more fun, I must admit, with Teddy's chaos running it.