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- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm Perry, and you're listening to the Beauty Brains. Welcome to the Beauty Brains, a show where real cosmetic chemists answer your beauty product questions and give you an insider's look at the cosmetic industry. This is episode 409. I'm your host, Perry Romanowski, and with me today is the lovely Valerie George. Hello, Valerie.
- [00:31]
B
Hi, Perry.
- [00:32]
A
Valerie, you look a little spiffy today. Were you doing something else?
- [00:36]
B
I had a webinar, but you look a little spiffy today. We usually look terrible when we come on to record.
- [00:42]
A
I know. Maybe we can even share this video. But before we get to that, we should talk about what we're gonna talk about on today's show. We're gonna cover lots of questions, including, why would a company reformulate a product? Do different hair products cancel each other out? What sources do we recommend? Where consumers can educate themselves? What hair ingredient could be staining a shirt and is a lotion with CBD oil suitable for sensitive skin? But first, some of that chit chat that everybody is clamoring for. Valerie, what's up with you?
- [01:17]
B
Well, I am headed to New Hampshire tomorrow. It's our first trip with Baby C, and we're a little nervous about traveling with him. But he's going to meet his great nana and great papa, and that's fun. Yeah, we'll see how it goes.
- [01:34]
A
Now, often you will drive places. Is this a flying place or a driving one?
- [01:39]
B
Well, we've driven it before, but with Baby C being still a newborn baby, we are gonna fly.
- [01:47]
A
Okay, now I'm curious. Having not had any babies myself or flown with any, do you have to buy the baby a seat?
- [01:56]
B
We. No, we are flying with him on our lap.
- [01:58]
A
Oh, so he's like a carry on then?
- [02:01]
B
Once they see how big he is, they might make us get a second seat. He has a tub of lard, but.
- [02:07]
A
You just fit him in the, like, carry on thing to see if he fits.
- [02:10]
B
Right. You're awful.
- [02:14]
A
No. So then you just hold him the whole way then. Right?
- [02:17]
B
You just hold them the whole way.
- [02:19]
A
Okay.
- [02:20]
B
Well, that's. He's really good. He never really cries, you know, so we'll see what happens.
- [02:25]
A
That's fun. We'll see how that goes. Can't wait to hear that. Now, I'm actually headed to Canada next week.
- [02:34]
B
That's close to New Hampshire. Depending on what side you're on.
- [02:37]
A
I'm gonna be in Montreal.
- [02:39]
B
All right. We're gonna be pretty close.
- [02:41]
A
Oh, wow. That's cool. Well, I'll say hello. I'M actually speaking out there at the Society of Cosmetic Chemists meeting there. I'm their keynote speaker for their tech symposium, speaking about advances in the 21st century in cosmetic formulating.
- [02:57]
B
Oh, how fun. Sounds like a good time.
- [03:00]
A
Yeah, it should be fun. And I am really winding down with traveling because I've traveled a lot this year.
- [03:08]
B
Yeah, I was disappointed to learn you're not coming to Suppliers Day California. Yeah, maybe next show they'll have us do some learning material. I know. They did ask me if we could record a podcast episode from the show floor. And I said, unfortunately, Perry won't be there. I have a booth. But maybe for the next show in two years, we could plan something.
- [03:28]
A
Yeah, I'd love to. That'd be a lot of fun.
- [03:31]
B
Well, just another quick news cat news, because I know we have some listeners who like it when we talk about the cats.
- [03:37]
A
Everybody loves the porch kitties and the lab kitties.
- [03:40]
B
Okay, pretty kitty is gone. She has not been around for a couple weeks and she's disappeared before, but I feel like her kittens are a little too tiny for her to disappear.
- [03:54]
A
Well, you know, they, they wean them off pretty quick.
- [03:57]
B
Yeah, I don't know, I just don't have a good feeling. But one of them. Cause you know the kittens that she had for this second litter, their uncle is Stache, the original lab cat that was around that went missing. Yeah, Stash.
- [04:11]
A
Yeah.
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B
One of them looks just like Stache. And he is so bold and friendly like Stash. Stash. And he's been letting me touch him.
- [04:19]
A
Whoa. Yeah, that is cool.
- [04:22]
B
And they all come out when I come in. I'll be like kitties. And they just come out and say hi. It's pretty cool.
- [04:28]
A
That is great. I love that. You know, I have the, the heat miser, who. He has this crazy orange fur and he's a long haired cat. His fur gets all matted during the summer.
- [04:38]
B
Yeah, you got to help him out. What do you do?
- [04:41]
A
Well, I. I bought a razor and I've been razoring him every ch. Like I could pick him up and I'll like try to get some of the mats off him because I used to try scissors and apparently they don't like scissors.
- [04:54]
B
No, but he's dangerous to me. Wick the razor a couple times and just. He won't even know, right?
- [04:59]
A
No. Oh, he knows. He'll tolerate it for a little bit, but. Well, I have a. It's an electric razor, so it's like a little shaker. So I got a few Off. I'm just trying to help them out because it does not look comfortable.
- [05:12]
B
No, it can't be comfortable for them.
- [05:14]
A
Yeah, I got a big, big clump off today, which was fun. And speaking of big clumps, we got a big clump of news here. Let's head over to beauty news.
- [05:29]
B
Well, what are you seeing?
- [05:33]
A
I saw this article. It caught my fancy about Pycno gel in.
- [05:38]
B
Pycnogenol, you mean?
- [05:41]
A
Yes, Pycnogenol. Pycno gel.
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B
Oh, my goodness.
- [05:46]
A
Yeah, you know. You know, I excelled in chemistry. Not in reading, apparently. So anyway, there's this ingredient called Pycnogenol, which sounds like something you take for joint pain, actually, but it's actually an antioxidant extract from the bark. French maritime pine trees.
- [06:06]
B
Do you mean the genus and species Pinus pinastor?
- [06:09]
A
Wait, you know the genus and species for Pycnogenol extract?
- [06:14]
B
Pycnogenol is the trade name, but, yes, I do. This. This really has been in the news again.
- [06:21]
A
Hey, you know, this ingredient apparently is loaded with procyanins, bioflavonoids, and phenolic acids. All of those things that people have been taking for antioxidant and, you know, anti aging. And it's to help you make your skin glow. And as a topical, apparently Pycnogenol is said to neutralize free radicals, reduce redness, protect against irritants and moisturization. You know, all the stuff they say about these kinds of things. It's also as a supplement is supposed to even your skin tone and reduce hyperpigmentation, boost collagen, elastin, all that stuff. And there's even talk that it can impact cellulite. That must be talk from the producer of the ingredient, though. Come on. Cellulite. So, and if you want to give it a go, The Ordinary has Pycnogenol 5%, which sounds like a lot in there. And then you can get also a Pycnogenol, I don't know, supplement or something. But yeah. Have you heard Pycnogenol in the news?
- [07:24]
B
I've not heard it in the news, but I'm surprised it's coming back as a trending ingredient because literally maybe a few months ago, I was like, whatever happened to Pycnogenol? Pinus finaster. I don't know why I remember that, but basically, this ingredient was really popular, like maybe 15 years ago. And it's funny you mentioned Derma e uses this product because I Remember when they actually formulated with it and launched it many, many years ago. And it has a really great story to it. The story is told by the people who make it, so.
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A
Yeah, yeah, right, of course.
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B
Yeah. You know how that goes.
- [08:01]
A
That's probably how they got it into my newsfeed. Like some marketing person wrote a press release or something and sent it out everywhere. And this ingredient hasn't been around in a while. Like you said 15 years ago. And I don't know there yet. Somebody must have been desperate for something to publish. But it just surprises me that we never run out of antioxidants to talk about.
- [08:25]
B
Yeah, it's just another antioxidant in a very crowded forest.
- [08:31]
A
Yeah. Well, there.
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B
Which is apartment Pine Forest.
- [08:34]
A
Right.
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B
Pinaster.
- [08:35]
A
Yeah, I felt like you there the Latin names of that stuff.
- [08:42]
B
Well, only because I think it has a ring to it. Pinus. Pinaster.
- [08:45]
A
Sure.
- [08:46]
B
And if I'm wrong, then I've remembered it wrong, but I don't think I'm wrong.
- [08:50]
A
We don't really fact check those things, but our. Our audience will.
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B
Oh, great.
- [08:55]
A
So they'll let us know.
- [08:57]
B
Well, there. There was another interesting article, K Beauty causing harm to Humans.
- [09:04]
A
Oh, yeah, that Personal Care Insights one.
- [09:06]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess there's been a sharp rise in people reporting injury from human trials or clinical trials of products. And essentially what happens, I guess it's not all sheet masks. It's not all sheet masks and snail slime and fun. Essentially, consumers are having side effects from these clinical trial tests. And in fact, the reported number of cases has doubled in the last four years, according to South Korea's Ministry of Free Food and Drug Safety. And so the ministry admits it doesn't fully oversee all the cosmetic testing, but they are kind of responsible for it. So it's a little like saying we're watching, but from way over here.
- [09:48]
A
Yeah, they're not. They're not watching too. That's kind of like our government now, right?
- [09:53]
B
Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, at the end of the day, cosmetics are primarily safe, Right?
- [09:57]
A
Right.
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B
So in 2023 alone, nearly 10,000 human trials were conducted with about 200,000 volunteers total.
- [10:06]
A
Okay. A lot of people out there. Yeah.
- [10:08]
B
And they act like these people are volunteers or like being forced to do this. In all honestly, these people probably are paid. That's how it works. So it's not some poor schmuck being exposed to all these products and being like, oh my God, I got an injury. They're being like, oh my God, I got an injury. And then like pocketing the $50 they collected.
- [10:33]
A
There was a town I went to in Maine when I was working on a skincare project where it was like a two week Clickman regression test. And this small town in Maine, like half the population made their money by being part of these tests. You know, they worked for this, they went, they volunteered for this clinical research facility that was there and they would just have patches on their back of chemical exposure and they'd do. They could make a couple hundred bucks a month just doing these tests. And that was a big portion of that. I've also heard stories of people who make the big bucks by being guinea pigs for medical devices. Oh yeah, get them implanted that they don't need, but they need to test it on somebody.
- [11:22]
B
Oh my goodness. Well, guys, this is a big industry and it's not just in the US So essentially I'm not surprised that they've had an increase in consumers reporting side effects. I mean, the reality is we're putting chemicals on ourselves. But if we think about the numbers, the number of registered beauty products in South Korea has gone from just last year 1.2 million to 1.38 million. And the country is now the second largest cosmetic export quarter in the world, just behind France and ahead of the U.S. so I mean, business is booming. So as business grows, I'm not surprised that a few faces are burned.
- [12:03]
A
Yeah, and it's a lot of products being exposed. I mean, the K beauty was like what, 10 or 11 steps? So that's a lot of opportunity for somebody to have some sort of reaction to the product. So it's not terribly surprising to me.
- [12:19]
B
Not at all.
- [12:21]
A
All right. We had a follow up from last week or a couple weeks ago. We talked about. Remember the sunscreen story? We talked about in fact?
- [12:30]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [12:31]
A
That lab stuff was kind of crazy. Well, Amelia from Patreon sent us a little extra info. She said, hey, beauty brains thought you might be interested in some more information and context about the sunscreen testing results. And she gave some links. But essentially she showed that investigations in Australia revealed some major problems with the sunscreen testing and labeling and this consumer group choice. They were the ones who found that sunscreens advertised with a 50 really only had a 4. And then the in Australia, the therapeutics good administration has confirmed, which is like.
- [13:09]
B
The F. FDA Health Canada Australia.
- [13:14]
A
Yeah. And then so that confirmed that several sunscreens shared the same base formula as this one that was claimed to be 50, but it was only four. And so then there was some shenanigans apparently going on with this UK lab, the Princeton Consumer Research, which provided the SPF information. And so all of that is to say this is still kind of going on. That doesn't really change the fact, though, that, you know, this kind of testing is still pretty subjective. And it's not surprising to me that you can get a lab that follows the protocol. But if they do one little thing wrong, they can get a huge difference. And so until we get some consistent lab testing protocol, I think you're still, you're going to see stories like this in the future.
- [14:05]
B
As we mentioned, SPF testing is kind of the same, but every geography has their own accepted method. So it's a little. A little ugly. Hey, Perry, we had someone else write in on buzzsprout and they said, what does it mean if one of my podcasts says not authorized when I try to download a new episode? All her other podcasts have downloaded with no issues. Has there been any challenges?
- [14:28]
A
You know, that's a great question. That happened to me once. So we use a service called Buzzsprout to host our podcast. It gets spread out to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, et cetera. But what buzzsprout does is, I guess in some sort of way to prevent spam podcasts or something. Apparently, if you're using a vpn, then you might not be able to download our podcast. And so if you're having that issue, you can turn off your VPN and then it will download fine. I don't know why it does that. It kind of annoys me. But I've had that same problem with ours. I don't know if it's a big enough problem that we need to change something, but if you're having that problem, just turn off your VPN and then you can download the show.
- [15:15]
B
Yeah, turn off the WI fi there, because sometimes my. Our Internet provider blocks lots of stuff and it's like I'm trying to shop. Did you know, Mr. Cosmetic Chemist, like, plant a firewall in here or something? Anyway.
- [15:28]
A
All right, there you go. All right, let's head on to the questions. Our first question comes to us from Anjali. She says, hello. My question is regarding episode 404 and relates to the urban decay reformulation. Do you have any word on the street insight as to why Murad might have reformulated its Oil Control Mattifier? Also, could you suggest an alternative moisturizing, mattifying and low SPF containing moisturizer? I used Murad's Oil control mattifier from 2015 until it was reformulated in 2020. And it used to contain SPF 15, which was perfect. It was reformulated to SPF 45 and now it's SPF 50 and the mattifying properties no longer work for my oily skin. In its original formulation, it was both extremely moisturizing and extremely mattifying, which was incredible. It's worth noting also Unilever acquired Murad in 2015. Thanks for your answering my question and warm wishes from a longtime beauty brand, Spain, in Toronto. Oh, Toronto. Well, thanks for that. Have you used this Murad mattifier?
- [16:42]
B
I don't have oily skin, so I can honestly say I've never used it. I don't have any inside information with Murad, but I do know they were purchased in 2015. So I'm wondering if in this acquisition they were allowed to have the formulation for some amount of time and then eventually their parent purchasing company, which was Unilever, which was Unilever, which is also known as Uniq Lever in the biz, if they said, hey, we either have to move manufacturing sites or we want to update the formulation or we need to do something with the formulation, I'm not sure, but I'm going to guess it had to do with acquisition.
- [17:25]
A
There are a few reasons that a company would reformulate. First, a lot of times you'll buy a company and the formulas are like against regulations or something you're using. You know, you buy, say you buy St. Ives and they say they have to have Swiss herbs in it, and then there are no Swiss herbs in there.
- [17:46]
B
Just one example, you know, a hypothetical.
- [17:48]
A
Example or so that's one reason. Another reason is, you know, these big companies buy these smaller companies. Mostly they're just buying the name, not usually buying the technology. Because, you know, most people can't tell big differences. And so to get economies of scale, they reformulate. And I know Pantene did this when P and G, when they bought herbal essences, they essentially took all the herbal essence formulas and made it the Pantene product. But they made the. So the base formula is what Pantene was because Pantene was the best selling shampoo. And so.
- [18:26]
B
And most people bought herbal essence for the fragrance anyway, right?
- [18:29]
A
And so they just fragrance it and colored it and put it in bottles. And, you know, so they thought, I'm more upgrading this. They're also getting economies of scale, so it's cheaper to produce. So that's another reason to do this. This one here, when they're up in the SPF to 45 and then 50, most likely the people that Buy the product. Kind of wanted that. And so when they upped the spf, they thought, oh, we could get news. And maybe that led to more people buying it. And so that would be sort of a marketing reason why you might reformulate.
- [19:01]
B
I'm not surprised that it's no longer working for Anjuli's oily skin, though, because sunscreen filters are intrinsically very oily feeling. Yeah, they're just greasy by nature. And if you increase SPF from 15 to 50, you're gonna notice that increase in heaviness and oiliness big time.
- [19:21]
A
I mean, or if you're using zinc oxide, you know, it might just start feeling grainy or something. So it would be hard to get a SPF 45 and not feel a little greasy.
- [19:32]
B
Exactly. Now, Anjali, I don't really have any recommendations, but maybe you could look for another SPF 15. Because if it's a chemical sunscreen, and I know that term's hated within the industry, but it's what consumers understand. If it's a chemical based sunscreen, it will be less greasy feeling at a lower SPF value. I would look around, keep the SPF a little lower, which, you know, should be fine.
- [19:56]
A
Yeah. And whether it feels the way you like it to or not is more like a personal feeling. So, yeah, it's hard for us to recommend, but I like that idea. If you find a lower SPF one, it's likely to feel less greasy. All right, we got another question here from Heidi.
- [20:16]
B
I want it all silly, healthy hair with lots of volume and body. My question is, are the products I'm using to keep my hair sleek and the other products I'm using to add volume, canceling each other out? Is it creating confusion for my hair? Is there a science to layering the products, or should I be using sleeking products one day followed by volumizing products another day? Thank you, Heidi from Wisconsin.
- [20:38]
A
Heidi from Wisconsin. So this is an interesting question. I don't think we've ever had this question before about layering hair care products, but. Yeah, do things interfere with each other? Now, I know like a shampoo and a conditioner, if you use them in the right order, they don't interfere with each other. That's fine. But if you're adding something to make your hair sleek, it's what weighing your hair down. And if you're adding something to make volume, theoretically it's poofing it up. And so I could see how this would be in competing with each other.
- [21:12]
B
I think they could be competing with each Other if they were kind of applied in the same area. And what I mean by that, if you're using a sleeking shampoo and conditioner, it's definitely working through depositing. But if you try to get your volume at the root from style, you could theoretically still get volume because you're putting a leave on styling product. But if you try to get the volume from a maybe a cream applied all over the hair, I could see where they're not necessarily canceling each other out, but you're not getting the volume effect.
- [21:44]
A
I could see that. It's hard to say that these would be canceling each other out. They are sort of conflicting, competing with each other. Right. There's sort of conflicting goals. So yeah, it would be hard to have like a really high volumized sleek hair, I would guess, right?
- [22:02]
B
Yeah.
- [22:03]
A
Unless the, the sleeking part is taming down little flyaway hairs and then the volume. So you could have volume without flyaway. So maybe that would be a sleek volume. But the way that these products work, they are sort of conflicting with the goals of each other. So I think if you're going to do it, my guess would be you would want to sleek first and volumize after if you're using a styling one.
- [22:34]
B
Yes, definitely. Look for a styling volume product. And one thing I learned at the salon brand I worked at is that volume is a style property. So I think you could have both. You know, with the mid to ends of your hair being sleek but having a lot of volume at the root, you can get that with a round brush and some volumizing stylers for the scalp.
- [22:57]
A
Yeah. So maybe could get them both. I don't know. It is a challenge. It's a very. I wonder if there's other products that compete with each other. We'll have to ponder that for next time. But this time, look at this. Valerie, somebody called in on our phone line. Chloe has an audio question for us. Let me play that now.
- [23:20]
C
Hey, it is Chloe. I am a relatively new listener, slowly making my way through the podcast and previous shows. I'm a licensed esthetician in North Carolina and I really enjoy educating myself through your podcast so I can give clients real science backed recommendations regarding skin care. And I guess my question was what are some books or just sources that you guys recommend that I always look back to? I own a few books that have some product definitions, but I really am interested in learning more about cosmetic chemists as a whole in regards to skin care at least. So if you guys have any books or Other podcasts that you guys recommend, I would really love to know so I can continue to educate myself. I love what you guys do. Thank you for always being ad free and soon I will subscribe to that Patreon.
- [24:21]
A
So, of course, Chloe, you're already halfway there because you listen to the beauty brains.
- [24:27]
B
I'm like, hello, us.
- [24:31]
A
Yeah, but there are other sources there now. She asked specifically about cosmetic chemistry. If you wanted to learn some cosmetic chemistry out there in Internet land or book land, do you have any suggestions for consumers who might not necessarily want to learn chemistry, they just kind of want to learn about products.
- [24:52]
B
You know, Perry, I don't like tooting my own horn, so I'm not. But I'm going to toot your horn because I feel like you have a course through your other business Chemist Corner, where it is like an intro course. And yes, it is designed for people who want to be cosmetic chemists, but I feel like it's a really good entry level class online at your own leisure where you can look at the different product formats and the types of chemicals in them. And it's at such a beginner level it could be appropriate for somebody like Chloe.
- [25:24]
A
Yeah, we definitely have educated consumers taking our course. So this is through my website, Chemists Corner. You can see that in the show notes. And I have a class called Practical Cosmetic Formulating. You don't have to be a chemist to go through it, but if you want to become a chemist, it's sort of for that. But we do have whole modules on, you know, skin care, hair care, color cosmetics, all of those kinds of things. So you get the basics then, you know, I thank you for that, Valerie. It's good. There are some other ones. If you check on YouTube, there's. I know Belinda Carley does a good job with the Institute of Personal Care Science. Again, her audience is kind of other chemists, but it sort of has a consumer bent to it. So. And she does a lot of mixing in the lab. So it's. If you don't mind an Australian accent, hers are pretty, pretty good. It's hard, though, for consumers, I think, to get reliable information because a lot of what's published online is created in conjunction with or by marketers of products. And so if you're learning about active ingredients or something, it's a supplier of the active ingredients or a marketer of the beauty product is going to be the one educating you. And sometimes that information could be good, but a lot of times that information is also misleading.
- [26:55]
B
Well, it definitely comes from a biased Angle. And then I know there are a lot of online science communicators that talk about how products work, but some of them also may be ads. And so you don't really get this non biased take on how a product is doing something. And maybe, you know, they would say the exact same thing, but it, you know, usually when you take an ad from a brand, they give you all the talking points they want you to hit and.
- [27:23]
A
Right.
- [27:24]
B
It's not necessarily authentic information. So it sounds like there's a gap. Perry, should we do a little online class about your products? Well, you do have an old book, but I think we could do an upper updated online format.
- [27:37]
A
We should, if there, if the audience clamors for it, Valerie and I could put together a intro to your beauty products class. That'd be fun. Speaking of fun, here's a question from Sammy, who is a patron. Sammy says hi. First of all, I want to let you know that I love the inane chitchat, so please don't ever stop. Okay, Next. I have noticed that one of my hair products has been staining my T shirts where I spray it onto my hair. And I was wondering if you had any idea what ingredient could be causing this reaction. The stain is a grayish color and you can see the outline of my hair strands in it. She actually did send us the picture and I forwarded to you.
- [28:23]
B
Oh, poor thing.
- [28:25]
A
The two products that I think could be causing it are one Redken, one United or TRESemme Heat Protectant. Thank you so much. It's hard to answer this question because I don't know what's the fabric that the shirt is made out of. Right. But I imagine if it's made out of silk or something, that could probably be problematic.
- [28:47]
B
Well, the shirt in the picture to me looked like a white cotton T shirt.
- [28:52]
A
Oh, really? Yeah.
- [28:54]
B
So it's hard to say. At first I was like, oh, there must be like a color in the product that is contributing this off color to the fiber while it's transferring. And when I look at the Tresemme product, it's a very simple inkey list, very innocuous ingredients. In fact, most of it is actually fragrance allergens, which, you know.
- [29:19]
A
Good.
- [29:19]
B
They're doing a lot of disclosure there. And when I look at the Redkem product, it's also a pretty innocuous product list. I actually think, if I have to be really honest, they ripped off a product at Paul Mitchell that we did because the Inky list is like literally every single ingredient in this Paul Mitchell product that I worked on, except for this extract at the very, very end.
- [29:45]
A
And perhaps they were inspired by. Not necessarily ripped off, but inspired by. Well, we call it benchmarking, Valerie.
- [29:53]
B
Well, I would say, yeah, they were heavily inspired. Ingredient for ingredient, pretty much. Except for at the very end, there's an extract, Viola odorata flower leaf extract. And I'm wondering if this somehow is causing transfer onto the fabric and over time it's oxidized. Oxidizing.
- [30:18]
A
That is certainly a possibility. And that could cause it. I. I wonder, though, because this extract.
- [30:25]
B
Is light purple in color, or at least when I say it has been.
- [30:29]
A
Mm, okay. Yeah, that is a possibility. I also wondered, though, just. Could silicone, some of the silicones in general be problematic?
- [30:40]
B
No, they're pretty inert.
- [30:42]
A
Yeah, they're pretty. They're pretty inert. But maybe the cationics, the polyquat 37.
- [30:48]
B
I've used that so many times. I've never seen this before.
- [30:53]
A
I've not either. But it does seem like there's something in the products that is doing it.
- [30:59]
B
It looks like the hair. It looks oxidizing.
- [31:03]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So this is a. This is a good mystery. And in the Tresemme Heat Protectant, what's that silicone in that one? Right.
- [31:12]
B
Amodimethicone.
- [31:14]
A
Yeah.
- [31:14]
B
Again, standard issue. Yes. Sam, I'm wondering if you could do a little experiment where on half of your head, you put the Redken One United product and the other half the Tresemme Heat Protectant, and you split your hair in half and see which one is rubbing on your shirt and creating this hair imprint.
- [31:34]
A
Now, wait a second. Do you even even need the hair? Couldn't she just spray the products on the shirt?
- [31:40]
B
Well, I like it because it's replicating everything that she's doing. Because I'm wondering, what if it's something in her hair? Like maybe her hair is artificially colored and it's leaching some of the color out onto the shirt.
- [31:52]
A
Oh, yeah, that could be happening too.
- [31:56]
B
Oh, yeah, because these. These products, maybe they're heavily fragranced. I don't really recall the Redken product at the. It's been many years since I looked at it. But they could be leaching some of the colorant out.
- [32:08]
A
Yeah, you are right. And especially when your hair is wet like that. It doesn't seem like she's drying her hair and having this. Right. It's probably wet hair on her shirt.
- [32:19]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [32:20]
A
There you go. Well, this is fascinating. Hope you can do that little experiment and get back to us.
- [32:26]
B
I would love to, to know.
- [32:28]
A
Yeah, Speaking of getting back to us, we got to get this one question in because you got a little meeting going on, something. So here's our last question. Comes to us from Kimberly.
- [32:40]
B
I have a question regarding Avon's Green Goddess CBD Face oil. I'm wondering, in your opinion, if this is suitable for sensitive skin. I was always told oil can cause breakouts, but this is touted as being good for sensitive. Sensitive or acne prone skin. Would love your thoughts, Kimberly.
- [32:56]
A
All right, thank you for that, Kimberly. Well, sensitive skin, cbd, first of all, you don't know about the cbd, like how much is actually in there, but it is Avon. So they probably put some in there, Right?
- [33:10]
B
Some, you know, loose term.
- [33:12]
A
Right. I mean, that's the thing about ingredients. If you want to market them, you don't have to put a lot in there. You have to put some in there. You can't say something's in there and not put it in there. But, you know, when I was, unlike.
- [33:26]
B
St. Ives, Swiss herbs.
- [33:28]
A
No. Well, yeah, yeah, like, okay, so small brands might do that. Well, actually, I think St. Ives was putting herbs in there. They just weren't Swiss herbs. They were like California herbs.
- [33:39]
B
Okay.
- [33:41]
A
No, but what a company will do is when they want to talk about, say, cbd, you know, CBD is not as cheap as, like, I don't know, mineral oil or coconut oil or some oil. And so they want to talk about the CBD. So they'll put a tiny amount in there, maybe 0.1%, and then talk about it, even though it's not really having the major impact. So whether there's CBD in the oil or a lot of CBD in the oil, that could have an impact on your skin and cause sensitization. That really depends on the product and the company making it. Now, Avon, Avon probably uses at a significant amount, right?
- [34:22]
B
Well, I don't know. I, I don't think they're making a numerical claim. Because when you make a numerical claim, you actually have to validate every single blot that you have and make sure that it has that amount of CBD present. And the CBD industry is a little different because it's actually how many milligrams are in the bottle, not like in the dose administered to the person. It's a very different way of calculating than we're used to in cosmetics. And so my guess is they're just saying, you know what, it's easier if we just say it's in there versus making a numerical Claim.
- [34:57]
A
Now, as far as this oil causing breakouts. But CBD oil is good for sensitive and acne prone skin. That is one of the suggested benefits of CBD oil is that it might be good for inflammation and be an anti acne product. There is no good evidence that that is the case. It hasn't been approved by the fda, for example. But anecdotally some people find benefit to that and so that might be what that's about.
- [35:29]
B
Acne is a disease of inflammation. So the cannabidiol were indeed acting on inflammatory pathways. Ways that may help it. But I mean cbd, have you ever felt the neat material?
- [35:42]
A
I have, yeah. It's.
- [35:45]
B
Yeah, if you get it, if you get the non synthetic version, it's like kind of sticky, right?
- [35:52]
A
Yeah, it's, it's got a resinous sort.
- [35:55]
B
Of quality to it. Exactly, yeah.
- [35:57]
A
A little tacky. So that's why you can't use it at a huge level when you're formulating.
- [36:02]
B
Oh, and you certainly can't use it at a huge level in an oil. It precipitates out because of the, the cloud point. Now I don't believe that all face oils are bad or comedogenic. I know that's a common perception based on old folklore. It depends on the oil and I think it depends on, you know, the way it's being used and what the cause of your acne is. Because acne has many different pathways.
- [36:29]
A
Yeah. So I wouldn't necessarily just write this one off. You could try it and maybe it would help with your acne. I wouldn't. This wouldn't be the first thing I go to. I try like the, you know, benzoyl peroxides, the salicylic acid stuff first, the.
- [36:46]
B
Proven stuff, the stuff that's monographed to treat acne.
- [36:50]
A
Yeah. But you know, acne is one of those things where, you know, if you, you put a treatment on it, the acne might go away in like a week and if you don't do anything, maybe it'll go away in seven days. I don't.
- [37:03]
B
Yeah.
- [37:05]
A
I said the same thing. Seven days.
- [37:12]
B
You are so mean. Like I wasn't even computing that. I was just trying to help poor Kimberly and thinking, you know what? But I should probably also tell her if she's concerned it might make acne flare up, she should at least just try or patch test it in a small area and see what happens. And here you are playing games with me and the rest of the audience.
- [37:34]
A
I was just thinking about my physical therapy, which I Just did my last one last week and my physical therapist is like, well, do you think you want to come in for another one or do you think you're all right? And I'm like, eh, I don't know. How do you know when you're better? And she's like, I don't really know when you know you're better. So it's sort of like with acne. How do you know it's working or not? It's hard to know because things just get better over time. Anyway, that's a great.
- [38:01]
B
That's very full of wisdom, Perry. That's what you are.
- [38:05]
A
Speaking of wisdom, I hear the music.
- [38:07]
B
Thanks for listening, everyone. If you get a chance, head over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave us free review that will help other people find the show and ensure we have a full docket of beauty questions to answer.
- [38:17]
A
Speaking of beauty questions, if you have one of those, you can record it on your smartphone and email it to thebeautybrainsmail.com or you can also just call us at our number, 1-872-216-1856, and leave a recorded voicemail message. Or we actually have a form in the show Notes where you could just fill out the form and have the question in there. But if you want your question for sure, for sure answered, then you want to become a patron, because the beauty brains are on Patreon. As you might notice, in this show, we do not really have advertising, you know, and that means we don't get paid by advertisers. But that also means we can say whatever we like.
- [38:58]
B
We're not biased, right?
- [39:00]
A
Until we get sued or whatever. But then we'll start a GoFundMe legal fund there. But anyway, if you want to help support the show, which is not exactly free to produce, you can do that by going to patreon.com thebeautybrains and subscribe at any level. You also will get a transcript of the show. There is that too. And you know what else, Valerie? Remember how last week we were talking about how I do a selfie every day?
- [39:25]
B
Yeah.
- [39:25]
A
I put those all together in a single video.
- [39:28]
B
And you know, another time I'm gonna ask you how you're, how you did that, because I was telling Mr. Cosmetic Chemist, like, I was like, perry, you should do this. And then I was like, could you imagine going through your photo roll and you have to isolate your 6,000 pictures that you've taken of yourself to put together? What a disaster.
- [39:48]
A
I did it.
- [39:49]
B
How'd you do it?
- [39:51]
A
I used ChatGPT and I said, hey, ChatGPT, I want to do this. Write me a Python script. And it wrote it. I'll share the video in our Patreon feed.
- [40:02]
B
Wow, how cool. Anyway, don't forget to follow us on our various social media accounts, which you can't do through chat GPT. You actually have to go and click follow on Instagram. We're at The Beauty Brains 2018 on X Ray at the Beauty Brains on Blue Sky. We're at the Beauty Brains. We have a Facebook page, a tick tock and a YouTube.
- [40:22]
A
Yeah, we are. We are all out there and sometimes we publish, but we do like to respond. So if you have a question, you can put us posted in our socials also.
- [40:29]
B
All right, well, thanks again for listening everyone. And remember, be brainy about your beauty.
- [40:35]
A
Thanks everyone. Kittens.