Podcast Summary: BEMA Podcast – Episode 484

Title: Dallas Jenkins — It Would Have Been Enough (Bonus Episode)
Date: November 10, 2025
Host(s): Marty Solomon (A), Brent Billings (B), with commentator Marty (C)
Guest: Dallas Jenkins (creator, The Chosen)

Episode Overview

This special bonus episode features Dallas Jenkins, creator of The Chosen, reflecting on narrative and historical decisions made in Seasons 4 and 5 of the series. The conversation dives deep into how artistic choices shape the storytelling, the balance between tradition and historical accuracy, and the impact of certain pivotal episodes and scenes, most notably the "Dayenu" women's Seder and the portrayal of Jesus’ final days.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Handling of Geography and Tradition in The Chosen (00:54 – 05:49)

• Jenkins’ Approach to Geography: Dallas confesses his practical and narrative flexibility regarding geography, like the location of the Upper Room and Phoebe’s house:
  • “Not only am I lousy in real life... If you said to me, no, no, the Essene quarter is technically... I probably. Right. I have no idea.” (01:22 – 02:00, Dallas)
• Tradition vs. Artistic License: The choice to embed traditions, such as the Upper Room at John Mark’s house or incorporating the Dayenu, stems from narrative efficiency and plausible tradition rather than strict historical certainty:
  • “We feel a little bit more freedom to use them as means to make a television show. We’re not doing a documentary.” (05:41, Dallas)
• The Artistic Blend: The show deliberately combines historical, biblical, and traditional elements, holding them “with loose enough hands” to focus on spirit and meaning (05:49, Host).

2. Structure and Artistry of Season 5’s Lord’s Supper Scenes (09:00 – 14:16)

• Breaking Up the Last Supper: Instead of a single episode, the Last Supper scenes are spread backward across the season to emphasize their significance and thematic ties:
  • “We could then take some of these extraordinarily deep moments and not let them get lost in the shuffle.” (09:41, Dallas)
  • Jenkins notes both positive and negative feedback, recognizing the challenge in holding the audience’s engagement with this nonlinear approach.
• Aspect Ratio Choices: Artistic decisions, such as a “painterly” aspect ratio for the Last Supper, nod to classical artwork and create contrast between formality and raw intimacy:
  • “We are filming the disciples world, not handheld... Here with the Last Supper, we just thought there’s something so beautiful about the triclinium table...” (14:16, Dallas)

3. The Role of Art in Faith (17:08 – 19:10)

• Protestant Suspicion of Art: Jenkins remarks on evangelical Protestantism’s suspicion towards art and asserts that beauty and visual storytelling can deepen truth and faith:
  • “The beauty of art is that it really does require you to look deeper and it becomes kind of this connection point between you and truth.” (17:39, Dallas)
  • “The Chosen has in many ways... taken the Gospels from black and white into color.” (19:05, Dallas, quoting viewer feedback)

4. The Women’s Seder / Dayenu Scene (19:10 – 23:56)

• Reception and Significance: The women’s Seder, or “Dayenu” scene, stands as one of the most powerful and moving in the series—both for audiences and cast:
  • “It’s probably on our top five list of the most responded to tear-inducing scenes we’ve ever done.” (19:57, Dallas)
  • “I don’t know if the Dayenu happened at that time... but I don’t know that we’ve captured capital T, truth better than we did in that scene.” (22:20, Dallas)
• Personal Impact: The Dayenu scene has inspired fans worldwide to create their own “Dayenu” moments in their families and communities.

5. Portrayal of Gender Roles and Historical Accuracy (27:52 – 32:39)

• Artistic Responsibility: Jenkins and the hosts discuss the balance between depicting historical realities of 1st-century gender roles and being mindful of viewers’ wounds and modern perspectives:
  • “We don’t intend it as... a political statement of a woman belongs in the kitchen... That’s not a life prescription. It’s just... back in the first century, that certainly was the majority of how things operated.” (27:52, Dallas)
  • The hosts agree, reflecting on the importance of empathy for viewers with past trauma while recognizing historical fidelity.

6. Thaddeus’ Monologue and Peter’s Growth (25:27 – 34:46)

• Peter’s Leadership Journey: Attention is given to Peter’s growth—his recognition of other disciples’ strengths and his own ongoing transformation and failings.
• Memorable Monologue: Thaddeus’ monologue about the church and the kingdom is praised as one of the best in the series:
  • “I don’t know who wrote that monologue that Jesus gives to Thaddeus... One of the best monologues I have ever heard Jesus describing to Thaddeus, who we are as a church, what the kingdom of God is.” (32:04, Marty)
  • “Tyler is your guy for sure... he’s able to take concepts that we’ve maybe taken for granted and put them into the context of monologues or poetry...” (32:45, Dallas)

7. Navigating the Passion Week, Jewish Sensitivity, and Judas’ Arc (37:04 – 43:20)

• Pressure and Caution in Crucial Storylines: Jenkins details the emotional, creative, and historical weight of portraying Passion Week, seeking input from Jewish consultants to avoid anti-Semitic tropes while remaining faithful to the text:
  • “There is a group of Jewish leaders who were corrupt and who did arrange to have Jesus killed. That is a fact. The fact that there have been some evil people throughout history who have taken that... is horrible. But it doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be faithful and honest to what actually happened.” (38:32, Dallas)
  • Care is taken to show that Jesus and his disciples never rejected their Jewishness, but rather confronted corruption.
• Judas as Tragic Everyman: Judas is portrayed with nuance—a disciple who believed, served, but was slowly overtaken by subtle, relatable failings, mirroring modern faith journeys.

8. Integration of Hebrew Bible Themes and Supernatural Elements (43:27 – 47:03)

• Gethsemane Sequences: Creative use of Old Testament visions (Abraham & Isaac, Ezekiel’s dry bones) in Jesus’ anguished prayer in Gethsemane serves as both artistic risk and deep theological resonance:
  • “We played with... heaven meeting earth, past, present, and future all coming together, because it’s... the most supernatural of our seasons.” (45:54, Dallas)

9. Dallas Jenkins’ Reflections and the Ongoing Legacy (47:30 – 57:41)

• Lessons from The Chosen: Jenkins emphasizes Jesus’ intimate, person-to-person approach and the mysterious combination of God’s sovereignty with human participation:
  • “There’s this very mysterious... combination of God’s sovereignty with the grace that allows us to participate in it. That has been really profound for me...” (48:46, Dallas)
• Future Projects: Beyond The Chosen, Jenkins and his team are developing projects on Joseph, Moses, Acts, and the animated Chosen Adventures for children.
• Global Reach: The Chosen’s first season is now translated into 86 languages, with a goal of 600. A powerful story is shared about Malagasy children watching the show in their own language:
  • “Several of the kids said, I saw a God who's just like me. He brushes his teeth in the stream just like I do...” (55:02, Dallas)
  • Jenkins: “I could die now and it would be enough. That’s the greatest thing that we've ever experienced.” (55:30, Dallas)

Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• On Artistic Liberty:
  “We’re not doing a documentary. We’re doing a television show. It needs to be entertaining. The storytelling needs to be efficient. And as long as we’re not contradicting the character or intentions of Jesus in the Gospels, we feel free to explore these things.” (05:41, Dallas Jenkins)

• On the Women’s Seder Scene:
  “The women’s last supper was something that. Yes, the feedback has been. It’s probably on our top five list of the most responded to tear-inducing scenes we’ve ever done...” (19:57, Dallas Jenkins)

• On the Power of Art in Faith:
  “The beauty of art is that it really does require you to look deeper and it becomes kind of this connection point between you and truth... The Chosen has... taken the Gospels from black and white into color.” (17:39, 19:10, Dallas Jenkins)

• On Palpable Impact:
  “We've heard from people all over the world, have said that they've gathered their families and they've done their own [Dayenu]... What's better than that?” (23:56, Dallas Jenkins)

• On Portraying Peter’s Growth:
  “Each season Peter gets more and more Christlike and learns more, but also falls harder each season... It's an important lesson... that even the heroes of the faith are capable of profound mistakes.” (26:02, Dallas Jenkins)

• On Navigating Jewish Sensitivities in Storytelling:
  “We have a group of Orthodox Jewish consultants... this is the part of the story that’s the most fraught for Jewish people and Jewish viewers where they're like, are you going to do the thing where the angry Jews kill our sacred Christian Messiah?” (37:04, Dallas Jenkins)

• On the Global Reach of The Chosen:
  “The goal is 600 languages... The most moving thing I've ever experienced... was when I saw 300 Madagascar orphans... these kids got a chance to see the show in their own language... I could die now and it would be enough.” (53:58 – 55:30, Dallas Jenkins)

Segment Timestamps

• 00:54 – Artistic geography and tradition in The Chosen
• 09:00 – Breaking up the Last Supper; aspect ratio and art in storytelling
• 17:08 – Visual art’s role in spirituality
• 19:10 – The women’s Seder/Dayenu scene: Impact and feedback
• 25:27 – Peter’s leadership growth and Thaddeus’ monologue
• 27:52 – Gender roles: Historical accuracy vs. modern perspectives
• 37:04 – Portraying Passion Week, navigating Jewish sensitivity
• 43:27 – Hebrew Bible integration and supernatural themes (Gethsemane)
• 47:30 – Jenkins’ personal takeaways, future projects, translation impact
• 53:58 – The global reach and stories of transformation

Final Reflections

This episode offers a rich, engaging conversation at the intersection of biblical scholarship, artistic interpretation, and the lived reality of creating faith-based entertainment. Dallas Jenkins shares both technical insights and personal vulnerability, illustrating how The Chosen continues to resonate deeply—across cultures, faith traditions, and generations.

For further links and behind-the-scenes discussions mentioned in the episode, visit BEMA Discipleship's website.