The BEMA Podcast — Episode 486: Vice & Virtue — Temperance
Date: November 20, 2025
Host(s): Brent Billings, Red Dent, Elle Grover Fricks
Overview
This episode explores the virtue of temperance as part of the ongoing "Vice & Virtue" series, focusing on what temperance truly means in a biblical and practical sense. The hosts blend historical, scriptural, and philosophical perspectives, examining temperance as more than mere self-denial but as the intentional pursuit of balance, moderation, and the ability to "know when to say enough." The conversation is lively and reflective, aiming to reclaim temperance from outdated or narrow definitions and argue for its relevance in every aspect of modern life—including physical desires, ambitions, hobbies, emotions, and even spirituality.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Opening: The Insatiable Self and the False Promise of Satisfaction
00:15 – 03:06
- Elle Grover Fricks opens with a reading from David Foster Wallace’s essay on cruise ships, highlighting the “insatiable” human desire for more and the myth that ultimate gratification will ever truly satisfy.
- Quote:
“The infantile part of me is by its very nature and essence, insatiable... In response to extraordinary gratification, the insatiable infant part... will simply adjust its desires upward until it once again levels out at its homeostasis of terrible dissatisfaction.” (Elle, 01:07, reading Wallace)
- Quote:
- This sets the stage for a discussion of temperance as the antidote to modern excess and endless wanting.
2. Prudence vs. Temperance: Overlapping but Distinct
05:10 – 07:21
- Conversation addresses the overlap between prudence (wisdom in action) and temperance (self-control).
- Prudence is described as the “ability to discern between when something is true, when something is right and good... the right course of action.”
- Temperance, on the other hand, is more about managing personal appetites and actions—“controlling myself.”
- Quote:
“Temperance could maybe be seen as a kind of subset of prudence... It's about controlling myself.” (Elle, 06:05)
3. Defining Temperance: Beyond "Just Saying No"
07:22 – 11:52
- Elle traces temperance to its Latin roots, meaning “to blend” or “maintain balance between extremes.”
- Not just abstinence or denial, but moderation:
- “Temperance is not the virtue of never having any fun or just saying no all of the time as a rule. It's not a virtue of denial, but more of a virtue of moderation.” (Elle, 09:37)
- C.S. Lewis on temperance: “not abstaining, but going the right length and no further.”
- Expanding temperance beyond bodily pleasure — encompassing hobbies, work, ambition, and even the way we spend our energy.
4. Practical Challenges: Cultural Expectations & Saying ‘Enough’
11:53 – 13:20, 15:04 – 18:24
- The danger of a culture that always says "more"—especially in youth sports or professional ambition.
- Reference to the Apple maxim: “There's a thousand no's for every yes.” (Brent, 13:20)
- How having margin in life (like the margins on a page) allows for adjustment and healthy living.
5. Temperance vs. Indifference: Avoiding Mediocrity
15:08 – 20:43
- Red raises a concern: Does advocating temperance become an excuse for not fully committing to anything, leading to passivity or mediocrity?
- Elle responds: True temperance isn’t half-hearted; it’s knowing your real limits and inviting other virtues in—like courage and commitment.
- Quote:
“A life of extreme solo focus on temperance can actually look really... bland. But what happens when, alongside temperance, I also have to consider the virtue of courage or the virtue of justice or... hope or faith?” (Elle, 17:26)
- Quote:
6. Interdependence of Virtues & Limits
20:44 – 22:33
- Temperance means responding to your actual limits, not quitting early.
- The role of community: Sometimes we need others to help us realize our limits or see when more is possible.
7. Embodied Virtue: Temperance and Being Human
22:34 – 27:16
- Discussion of Aquinas’ ranking of virtues (courage and justice as “greater” than temperance) and a pushback: Temperance is essential due to our embodied nature.
- Quote:
“If the idea behind Sabbath is that we are supposed to be recalled to something fundamentally true about being human—linked to what we do with our bodies—then temperance is actually a really important virtue.” (Elle, 25:51)
- Quote:
- Intemperance can dehumanize; when our appetites control us, we become “less than what God intends us to be.”
8. Temperance in Scripture: Insights from Proverbs
27:16 – 33:55
- Proverbs 25: Self-control is compared to strong city walls; lacking it is being “defenseless.”
- “Like a city whose walls are broken through is a person who lacks self-control.” (Brent, 27:59)
- Hebrew nuance: “To restrain your spirit”—an internal, intimate self-limiting.
- Proverbs 16: “Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one who takes a city.” (Brent, 30:57)
- Hebrew nuance: “Person with a long nose” (slow to anger), ruling one’s own spirit.
- “To be somebody who has temperance is to be able to limit or control, again, your spirit... because this actually is the way to flourishing.” (Elle, 32:23)
- Emotions and temperance: Just because you have strong emotions doesn’t mean you should always fully express them.
9. How to Develop Temperance: The ‘Secret’ of Contentment and Focus
33:55 – 41:47
- Philippians 4: Paul’s secret is to be content in every situation—"I can do all this through him who gives me strength."
- Elle and Red discuss the difference between external management (“building a cage around myself”) versus internal orientation (“the one thing,” as Paul advocates).
- Quote:
“If I can walk into a room and say, it doesn’t matter—all I’m focusing on is I want to be walking in self-sacrificial service and love right now, because that’s my value... everything else is okay.” (Red, 39:13)
- Quote:
- Only a deep, gospel-rooted focus creates real temperance; practical tips alone are not enough.
10. Practical Steps: Crossover of Discipline
42:05 – 44:57
- Building self-control in any area can strengthen temperance elsewhere. Example: Elle’s friend Megan developed discipline for prayer by first mastering the habit of running.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On moderation, not abstinence:
“Temperance... meant not abstaining, but going the right length and no further... knowing when to say ‘enough.’”
— Elle (09:37, paraphrasing C.S. Lewis) -
On the interplay of virtues:
“You need to say yes to something and actually commit to it, but you also need to say no to something, and whatever you say, like, commit to that.”
— Brent (21:28) -
On internal restraint:
“The restraint of the spirit is much more intimate than just, like, your actions.”
— Elle (29:42) -
Red on what true focus looks like:
“Let that one yes shape everything else and not be seeking out the honey that’s on the knife.” (40:15) -
On temperance being more than balance:
“The further you get to the extremes of either doing everything or doing nothing, the less and less we look like the people that God actually intends us to be.”
— Elle (26:04)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- 00:15 — Opening: The insatiable self (David Foster Wallace reading)
- 05:10 — Temperance vs. Prudence: What’s the difference?
- 07:22 — Defining temperance and its Latin origins; temperance as moderation
- 11:53 — Applications beyond physical appetites; work, sports, life margins
- 15:08 — Are we just promoting mediocrity? The need for conviction and ‘yes’
- 20:44 — Community, limits, and the role of others in knowing “enough”
- 22:34 — Is temperance a lesser virtue? The argument for its importance
- 27:16 — Temperance in Proverbs: Self-control and the image of city walls
- 33:55 — Philippians 4: Contentment and the “secret” to self-control
- 41:47 — Practical tip: Building discipline in one area to strengthen others
- 45:44 — Self-examination questions (practical application)
Reflection & Application
Self-Examination Questions (read at 45:44)
- Do I drive my appetites, or do my appetites drive me?
- Do I value pleasure and comfort more than satisfaction and meaning?
- Do I have regular rhythms of living, celebrating, and observing that encourage knowing when to say enough?
- In what areas of my life am I unable to attain self-control?
- Are there other areas I could start developing it first?
Resource Recommendation
Dedicated: The Case for Commitment in an Age of Infinite Browsing
— Pete Davis (Red, 46:39)
A secular-but-biblically-minded book on the power of saying “yes” to one thing and practicing commitment.
Tone & Style
The hosts are self-aware, humorous, and transparently thoughtful, trading meta-jokes with genuine wrestling over both culture and scripture. The discussion is candid about their own struggles with temperance and provides perspective both for those new to the concept and seasoned listeners.
Summary prepared for listeners seeking a robust understanding of temperance in faith, work, relationships, and self-development.