425: Hosea — Fruit in Keeping with Repentance

Summary

The BEMA Podcast: Episode 425 – Hosea — Fruit in Keeping with Repentance

In Episode 425 of The BEMA Podcast, hosted by Marty Solomon and co-host Brent Billings, the discussion delves deep into the Book of Hosea, particularly focusing on chapters 6 and 7. This episode, released on November 21, 2024, explores the multifaceted concept of repentance, examining both its internal and external dimensions within the historical context of Israel. By deconstructing traditional readings and reconstructing them through historical lenses, Solomon and Billings offer rich insights applicable to contemporary faith and societal structures.

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1. Recap and Introduction to Hosea 6

Brent Billings opens the episode by recapping the previous discussion on repentance, emphasizing its intentionality and the necessity of changed behavior as its culmination. He references John the Baptist's call to "bear fruit in keeping with repentance," linking this biblical principle to Hosea's message.

Marty Solomon reads Hosea 6:1-6, highlighting Israel's plea for healing and restoration despite their pervasive unfaithfulness:

“Come, let us return to the Lord. He has torn us to pieces, but he will heal us.” (00:34)

Brent connects this passage to the idea that true repentance should naturally result in behavioral transformation, setting the stage for analyzing the ensuing verses in Hosea 6 and 7.

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2. The Duality of Israel's Unfaithfulness

The conversation transitions to the grim portrayal of Israel in Hosea 7, where six kings reign, four of whom are murdered, illustrating deep-seated political instability and moral decay.

Brent underscores the internal and external chaos depicted:

“This is not good. This time of great violence is an ugly picture. What can we possibly do?” (02:53)

He identifies two primary failures within Israel:

1. Internal Chaos: A focus on personal faith and repentance without addressing communal or systemic issues. This group views faith, obedience, and sin as private matters, neglecting the broader societal implications.

2. External Chaos: Emphasis on systemic justice and societal reforms without personal heart transformation. This perspective prioritizes political alliances and social movements, often devoid of genuine spiritual renewal.

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3. Symbolism and Metaphors in Hosea 7

Marty brings attention to recurring metaphors, such as the oven, to illustrate internal processes and consequences:

“The oven works really well with that, because when you take all those ingredients and put them together... you’re going to get exactly what you put together.” (08:02)

Brent expands on this, using the oven as a symbol for the heart where ingredients (personal and societal actions) are combined, emphasizing that without God’s presence, the outcome is predictable and flawed.

Marty reads Hosea 7:1-16, presenting vivid imagery of deceit, corruption, and the futility of relying on alliances with foreign powers:

“They do not cry out to me from their hearts, but wail on their beds...” (09:52)

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4. Integrating Internal and External Repentance

Brent synthesizes the discussion by contrasting the internal and external groups, stressing that both are ineffective without God’s involvement:

“If it's void of God, it's always... If we’re not turning to God, if we’re not calling out to Him... it doesn’t work.” (11:56)

He advocates for a balanced approach:

• Internal Focus: Personal repentance and heart transformation.
• External Focus: Systemic justice and societal reforms.

Both must be anchored in a relationship with God to bear genuine fruit.

Marty echoes this sentiment, reflecting on modern parallels where reliance on political solutions without faith leads to failure:

“If we turn to the government without the faith side of it, then that’s not going to actually ultimately solve the problem either.” (26:28)

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5. The Necessity of God in Both Spheres

The hosts emphasize that whether one leans towards internal spiritual growth or external social activism, God must remain central. They caution against ideologies or movements that exclude God, leading to empty and unsustainable outcomes.

Brent draws from a 1994 Minister's Manual, highlighting the peril of separating faith from politics:

“Faith cannot do it alone. Politics cannot do it all together. We too must seek not faith or politics, we must seek both.” (15:53)

This integration ensures that both personal and societal transformations are guided by divine grace and purpose.

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6. Contemporary Applications and Reflection

Brent encourages listeners to introspect on their own approaches:

“Are we of the camp that says faith is an internal... or are we of the camp that says it's about justice and external systems?” (18:37)

He urges a harmonious blend of both approaches, emphasizing that:

• Internal Work: Personal repentance and heart cleansing.
• External Work: Advocating for justice and systemic change.

Marty adds that without integrating both, efforts remain incomplete and ineffective:

“It doesn't matter if it's internal or external. If you do this without me, it doesn’t matter... It’s all gonna fall.” (11:56)

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7. Concluding Thoughts

In wrapping up, the hosts reiterate the central theme: true repentance involves both internal heart change and external societal action, all underpinned by a relationship with God. They highlight the dangers of neglecting either aspect, drawing from Hosea's warnings to Israel.

Brent offers a closing reflection:

“He said, I trained them and strengthened their arms... But they plot evil against me.” (16:09)

This serves as a reminder that God's provision and strength are fundamental to any form of true transformation.

Marty and Brent conclude by inviting listeners to engage further with their content through their website, expressing gratitude for the supportive community.

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Notable Quotes

• Marty Solomon (00:34): “Come, let us return to the Lord. He has torn us to pieces, but he will heal us.”

• Brent Billings (08:36): “This is a Brent Billings amplified version, the prophecy of Billings. I like that.”

• Brent Billings (11:56): “If you do this without me, it's going to... it's all going to fall. It's all gonna fail.”

• Brent Billings (15:53): “History teaches us that faith cannot do it alone. Politics cannot do it all together. We too must seek not faith or politics, we must seek both.”

• Brent Billings (18:37): “We have these things we're trying to save ourselves from. We have these Egypts that maybe we've turned to in the past, but now we're trying to run from.”

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Key Takeaways

1. Holistic Repentance: Authentic repentance encompasses both personal heart change and societal reform, all rooted in reliance on God.
2. Avoiding Extremes: Solely focusing on internal spirituality or external activism without integrating both leads to ineffectiveness.
3. God-Centered Action: Whether addressing personal morality or systemic issues, God's presence and guidance are essential for meaningful transformation.
4. Modern Parallels: The historical context of Hosea's warnings resonates today, illustrating the timeless relevance of integrating faith with all aspects of life.

By dissecting Hosea's intricate messages, Episode 425 challenges listeners to evaluate their own approaches to faith and societal engagement, advocating for a balanced, God-centric path to genuine repentance and transformation.

Transcript

[Marty Solomon]

Foreign. This is the BAMAW podcast with Marty Solomon. I'm his co host, Brent Billings. Today we are continuing the conversation from our previous episode, considering the call to be different following our repentance.

[Brent Billings]

Yeah, we'll get through the rest of Hosea 6 and Hosea 7 today. But last week we talked about repentance. And just for kicks, Brent, how about you just one last time, let's read Hosea 616 to remind ourselves of where we camped out at in the last episode.

[Marty Solomon]

Absolutely. Come, let us return to the Lord. He has torn us to pieces, but he will heal us. He has injured us, but he will bind up our wounds. After two days, he will revive us. On the third day, he will restore us that we may live in his presence. Let us acknowledge the Lord. Let us press on to acknowledge Him. As surely as the sun rises, he will appear. He will come to us like the winter rains, like the spring rains that water the earth. What can I do with you, Ephraim? What can I do with you, Judah? Your love is like the morning mist, like the early dew that disappears. Therefore I cut you in pieces with my prophets. I killed you with the words of my mouth. Then my judgments go forth like the sun. For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgement of God rather than burnt offerings.

[Brent Billings]

All right, so that was our passage from last episode. Last episode, we really dug in here and talked about not just this fluffy, passing, abstract idea, but really the intentionality of repentance. We talked about the steps of repentance and that process. Those steps ended with the reality of changed behavior. It always makes me think of John the Baptist and he's talking to the Pharisees and he tells them to go bear fruit in keeping with repentance. This idea of fruit in keeping with go change your behavior. When you've actually truly repented, when you've done this process and you're actually a different person, then you come back to these tavilat shuva waters. And don't mishear me passing reference. That's not what I'm saying should happen in Christian baptism. Remember, John the Baptist is doing something different in Jewish baptism than Christian baptism. I'm not saying we should have finished the repenting process before I get baptized in a Christian setting. I know somebody's going to mishear that very awkward insertion there. But I think of that reference from John the Baptist telling us to go bear fruit in keeping with repentance. And so we would expect, if that's true, as we read Hosea, to see some sort of natural outflowing of repentance, some changed behavior, something in Hosea's language that would send us in this direction. So let's see. We'll see what happens in the verses that follow. Give us the next few verses here in Hosea 6.

[Marty Solomon]

Brent as at Adam, they have broken the covenant. They were unfaithful to me there. Gilead is a city of evildoers stained with footprints of blood. As marauders lie in ambush for a victim, so do bands of priests. They murder on the road to Shechem, carrying out their wicked schemes. I have seen a horrible thing in Israel there. Ephraim is given to prostitution. Israel is defiled.

[Brent Billings]

All right, so here's this ugly picture that we've talked about. This is a time of great violence for the people of Israel. El. I mean, she led us through that recap of the reign of Jehu. But during Hosea's prophetic period here, there are going to be six kings. BRENT Six kings. There's six kings in the period of Hosea's time. Four of them will be murdered. So four out of six kings are going to be assassinated, murdered. We're going to have allegiances with foreign and wicked governments. This isn't just like, oh, they piled up with Assyria, like the Assyrians are, are not great people to be palling up with at this point in history. And they've done it for self interest and for self preservation. There's no indication in the stories of biblical history and biblical text that there's any pause or about this compromise. They're just willingly. This is not a great time of their history. This is not one of their better chapters. There's no trusting the story. There's no trusting God. There's no faithfulness. Here's the words that are used here. Evildoers and bloodshed, robbery. And we're assuming here that these are pretty literal experiences, not just poetic hyperbole, but evildoers and bloodshed, robberies. Apparently priests were unfaithful. Are they unfaithful of literal bloodshed? Is there just a complicity? But that seems to be present in these passages and in these verses. So this is not good. This time of great violence is an ugly picture. What can we possibly do? Like, what is the remedy for us when we find ourselves? How do we pursue fruit in keeping with repentance? If we're truly going to say, come, let us return to the Lord? He has, you know, he's hurt us, but he will heal us. How can this be true when this is the world we Live in. Let's keep reading. Get into Hosea 7, see if we can find. Maybe we can find some help. Maybe we can find some direction here. Let's see what we find out.

[Marty Solomon]

Also for you, Judah, a harvest is appointed. Whenever I would restore the fortunes of my people, whenever I would heal Israel, the sins of Ephraim are exposed and the crimes of Samaria revealed. They practice deceit. Thieves break into houses, bandits rob in the streets. But they do not realize that I remember all their evil deeds. Their sins engulf them. They are always before me. They delight the king with their wickedness, the princes with their lies. They are all adulterers, burning like an oven whose fire the baker need not stir from the kneading of the dough till it rises. On the day of the festival of our king, the princes become inflamed with wine, and he joins hands with the mockers. Their hearts are like an oven. They approach him with intrigue. Their passion smolders all night. In the morning, it blazes like a flaming fire. All of them are hot as an oven. They devour their rulers, all their kings fall, and none of them calls on me.

[Brent Billings]

Yeah. So I think we see in these sections here in Hosea 7, I think what we're going to find is we're going to find two different groups of people. Maybe not specifically and directly identified, but I think in the language and the things that we're hearing, we're going to be able to see two different groups of people. This first group in the section you just read there, through verse seven, Brent is. I would say this. First of all, there's internal chaos. Like, it's an ugly picture. It's a time of great violence. But part of the problem is an internal problem. There's internal chaos. And this fits one group of us. There is a group of us that think that faith and obedience. Or we can include sin, the positives, the negatives, that it's a private affair, that this is about me and God. It's just a private spiritual thing. Faith, obedience, sin, those are private matters. And God speaks to that. God sees every last detail. God says this phrase, they are always before me. Like we know from other passages of Scripture, God searches the mind and examines the heart. Jeremiah or the Psalms, he weighs these things. In this passage here in Hosea, he says, they are always before me. He sees things like, here's a few words for you. He sees the hearts. He sees their passions. He sees their motivations and desires. Like, this is internal language. So it's a time of Great violence, in part because there's internal chaos, because we haven't dealt with the stuff that's actually inside of us. And there are parts of us that think that faith and obedience and rebellion is a private, internal thing. And so that's one group. Let's see if there's another group, Brent.

[Marty Solomon]

Well, and I just want to say I think there's a lot of oven talk, so I'm like, what is the oven all about? And I think the oven. Oven works really well with that, because when you take all those ingredients and put them together and put them into the oven, something's happening inside of that oven, and you don't necessarily see the whole thing, but it's like, also, what did you expect when you put all that stuff together and let it cook? And by the way, you've got an oven that's, you know, hot all day and into the morning, and it's still like. Like you. You put all this stuff in here, and you're going to get exactly what. What you put together.

[Brent Billings]

Oh, sure, absolutely. I love that Brent has. This is a Brent Billings amplified version, the prophecy of Billings. I like that. This is.

[Marty Solomon]

I definitely would want to workshop that idea a little bit. I don't know that I said that as clearly as I would like, but there's just so many references to oven. It's like, oh, man, I feel like something is going on there. So I'm trying to. I'm externally processing.

[Brent Billings]

Yeah, sure. I love it.

[Marty Solomon]

Okay, reading on, then. Ephraim mixes with the nations. Ephraim is a flat loaf, not turned over. Foreigners SAP his strength, but he does not realize it. His hair is sprinkled with gray, but he does not notice. Israel's arrogance testifies against him. But despite all this, he does not return to the Lord his God, or search for him. Ephraim is like a dove, easily deceived and senseless, now calling to Egypt, now turning to Assyria. When they go, I will throw my net over them. I will pull them down like the birds in the sky. When I hear them flocking together, I will catch them. Woe to them because they have strayed from me. Destruction to them because they have rebelled against me. I long to redeem them, but they speak about me falsely. They do not cry out to me from their hearts, but wail on their beds. They slash themselves, appealing to their gods for grain and new wine, but they turn away from me.

[Brent Billings]

We have another passage here, and this time it's almost strictly external. So the last section really talked to us about internal chaos. There's internal chaos. It's not a pretty picture now. It's not a pretty picture because there's external chaos which fits because there's another group of us. There's one group of us that's going to think very privately, very individually. Faith, obedience, sin. It's about my own commitments. It's a very private affair. There's going to be others that are saying no, no, no. The things that are wrong in the world are very external. They're very public affairs. The answers are systemic. It's about. It's about us. It's not necessarily about me as an individual. It's about us as a people. And it's about others and it's works of justice. And so there's that and there's a failure on both fronts. There's a failure on the internal front and there's a failure on the external front. This world that they've built is unsustainable. It will not work. And it's lacking the spirit of God. It's lacking God himself. Without the spirit of God. All of this is going to be whatever they come up with, whatever scheme, whatever great political plan that they have, partnerships and covenants and treaties and all suzerain vassal this and that and arrangements, and it's all empty and impotent. No matter how good it feels at the beginning, no matter how much sense it makes, no matter how many I's they've dotted or T's they've crossed without God in it, it's simply not going to work. There are some that turn internal and think the problem is internal. Then there are some that look external and say the problem is systemic. But both sections, by the way, if you look at verse seven, and then if you look at verse 14, those are the last verses of both of those sections. Brent, give me verse 7. Do you mind giving me verse 7 one more time?

[Marty Solomon]

All their kings fall and none of them calls on me.

[Brent Billings]

So there's that idea that nobody is calling on God, right? There's this then give me verse 14.

[Marty Solomon]

They do not cry out to me from their hearts, but wail on their beds. They slash themselves, appealing to their gods for grain and new wine. But they turn away from me, right?

[Brent Billings]

They do not cry out to me, they turn away from me. Verse 7. None of them call the same idea. Nobody's calling out to me. Nobody's looking to me, nobody's interested. Like nobody has any concern about whether or not I'm in it. So whether you're an internal person Whether you're an external person, both of them are empty. It's not which one of them is correct. So we have the same thing often in our Western American context. If we're in America, we have different sociological or political ideologies that say the issue is personal commitment, personal ethics, personal morality. Personal responsibility might be the better word to use. And then there are no it's about systems, it's about people groups, it's about all that kind of stuff. If either one of those is void of God, it doesn't work. It's empty. It doesn't matter whether you're conservative or progressive. Doesn't matter if you're on this side or that side. Doesn't matter if it's this ideology or that ideology. If it's void of God, it's always if we're not turning to God, if we're not calling out to him, if the repentance actually hasn't borne fruit in keeping with repentance, neither one of them are going to work. And so the message here would be, turn to God. Call on God in any and every effort, no matter which worldview you typically lean towards or find most natural or subscribe to. Whether you're an internal, private, personal responsibility person, whether you're a let's fix the broken systems that oppress people and pursue justice person, turn to God. Call on him. Ask him to be in the midst of. Make sure that what you're doing is actually joining in something that God is up to, not just asking God to be involved in something that you're up to. Do the internal and the personal work of repentance. I would say so. I would say no matter which part of the group are you this group? Are you the internal group or the external group? Do them both. Do the hard internal and personal work of repentance. If you're somebody that's a more external person like you, pursue systemic change and the issues of justice in our world. Be very careful that we're not neglecting the internal personal work of repentance, like what's going on in my own heart. Because God searches our hearts. He knows our mind, he knows our passions, he knows our motivations and desires. They're always before me. Make sure that we're cleaning the inside of the cup, not just the outside of the cup. On the flip side, if you're an external or if you're an internal person, you're like, yeah, I'm going to do the work of cleaning the inside of the cup. It's about my own Personal responsibility. Let the systems do what they. No, do the. Do the other work as well. Do the external work, do the corporate work, the systemic work of justice. But make sure that both of them are tied to the presence and the call of God. Make sure that God is the one at the center of those things. That's the power source, that's the energy. That's the center of gravity that's driving all of this work. That's what's driving. That's where the fruit. It makes me think. I think of fruit and I think of John 15. Like, apart from Jesus, apart from Christ, apart from God, we can. Can do nothing. It will be him that generates. If we're going to talk about fruit in keeping with repentance, well, there's one person, there's one entity that generates and bears that fruit, and that's going to be the God in Jesus character. So it's not about getting the right ideology. It's not about finding the right side of the argument and falling on the right side of things. It's about making sure that no matter what work we're doing, we're not neglecting the other side and its work that's rooted in the very person and presence of Jesus and God and what he's doing in the world. So that's the internal, external thoughts. But then there's two more verses here, Brent. Let's see, what can we mine out of these last two. Give me the last two verses of Hosea 7.

[Marty Solomon]

I trained them and strengthened their arms, but they plot evil against me. They do not turn to the most high. They are like a faulty bow. Their leaders will fall by the sword because of their insolent words. For this, they will be ridiculed in the land of Egypt.

[Brent Billings]

All right, so there we go. And that really bolsters what we just got done saying. I mean, God is the one that did the work. He said, I trained them and strengthened their arms. Of course, they. We, let's make it. We, let's not make it about they, let's make it. We. We tend to have a lack of gratitude for the things that God has done for us. The way that he has, in Hosea's language, trained us or strengthened us for the things that he's called us to do. If I was using Isaiah's language, like, what more could I do for you, Judah? Like, I found a fertile hillside, I cleared it of stones, I planted it with the choicest vines. I cultivated the soil, I built a winepress. Like, we tend to have a lack of gratitude for all the ways that God has set us up for success. We have a faulty memory. We tend to. What does he say in verse 16? They do not turn to the most high. They're like a faulty bow. Like, here's God. He's trained them. He strengthened their arms. He's built a beautiful bow. It's supposed to work a particular way, but they're like a faulty bow. They don't remember. They don't have any gratitude. And because of this, God says, they say they're going to work against God. That last part there. The leaders will fall by the sword because of their insolent words. For this, they will be ridiculed. We will work against God. God says, I will work against them. And I love that idea of them being ridiculed in the land of Egypt. Like they're seeking this allegiance with Assyria. That's part of what they're being. We haven't necessarily talked a whole bunch about this context, but part of what they're being critiqued for here in Hosea. Part of these. What verse was it, Brent, where I talked About Ephraim, verse 11. Ephraim is like a dove. You read this so well. Easily deceived and senseless, now calling to Egypt, now turning to Assyria. Like, there's a cadence to that. There's a. And they had gone to Egypt, but now they turn to Assyria because they're trying to be saved from Egypt, and yet Egypt's going to be ridiculing them by the time this is over.

[Marty Solomon]

And not that I want you to answer this, Marty, but I would just invite people to consider who Egypt is to you today and who Assyria is to you today.

[Brent Billings]

Oh, I'm not going to answer it because that's. I don't want to. That's con. Convicting.

[Marty Solomon]

Perhaps an uncomfortable thing to consider, but. Yeah.

[Brent Billings]

Yeah. What are the things? That's not. It's a great way to phrase. I'm so glad you said that, Brad. It's a great way to phrase what I was going to try to say with less eloquent words, like we. Let's. Let's. Let's go there. Like, we have these things we're trying to save ourselves from. We have these Egypts that maybe we've turned to in the past, but now we're trying to run from. And instead of actually finding that sustenance, that protection, that whatever in God, we're not crying out to him, we run to something else. So what is the Ephraim? What is The. Excuse me, what is the Egypt we're trying to protect ourselves from? Get away from. Defend ourselves from. And what are the Assyrias we're running to? And the very point of that is that Assyria isn't God. Instead of running to God, we're running to something else. We've got some other. We're so afraid of Egypt, we're running to Assyria. We're so afraid of X. And so we're running to whatever. We're so afraid of this situation. So we're running to that political ideology or party or candidate we're so afraid of that we're running to this. God says, if you do this without me, it doesn't matter what ideology you're clinging to, if you do this without me, it doesn't matter if it's internal or external. If you do this without me, it's gonna. It's. It's all gonna fall. It's all gonna fail. And the very things you're trying to run from will be the very things that end up ridiculing you. Which I would say this as a closing thought. Let us consider if. If that's true. Let us consider just a few things from this. From this episode and conversation. I would say this. Let us consider which camp we often align with. Which camp do we often align with? Just to start, I wouldn't say this is the only thought exercise, but just to start with a thought exercise. Are we of the camp that says faith is an internal. It's an internal and private affair. It's none of your business. Thank you very much. Faith is this world would be better if we all took personal responsibility for our personal ethics and morality and obedience and faith. And it's a personal, internal, private affair. Okay. Then the call is to clean house and make sure that that is something that God is in the midst of. Make sure that God is in the midst of your internal private cleaning house work. Make sure we're doing that work. Make sure we are bearing fruit in keeping with repentance. If you're a part of group number two, you're a. Faith is external, it's about justice. Group, it's about helping the oppressed. It's about being a part of social movements and activity. It's about fixing systems that abuse people. Okay. Absolutely. Excellent. But if it's void of God, if it's void of the spirit of God and it's still powerless, I think part of what I struggle with, with the people, and I think I. Well, I'll just be honest. I Align with Group two here. I am a. It's about systems, it's about justice, it's about that kind of stuff. I am a group 2 person, and what I know happens in me and what I know happens all around me with other people that are in my worldview is what we're really serving is our ideas of ethics and justice. And God can serve those. Thank you very much. And if God doesn't serve those, then God can take a back seat, because justice and our ideology is actually what we're serving. There's a real danger there. And I know that we have this beautiful way of saying, oh, it's all the same thing. God is those things. Like, God is love, God is justice. And I get that. I appreciate that. We often have a way of pursuing all this stuff and getting really cranked up about this stuff. And we use an awful lot of words and we do an awful lot of stuff, and we can somehow do it an awful lot without mentioning God's name once, without really pausing to consider. There's like our own kind of self righteousness that shows up. Just something to consider if you're a part of group two, like I am. So I found another quote, Brent. It's from the same series that I was using. And I should say this. When I read this quote. I'm reading a bunch of these quotes. Do not hear me say, like, I'm recommending this source. Like, everybody should go out and buy the 1994 Minister's Manual off of Amazon because it's just so good. Like, Martin, like, there's a lot of stuff I'm not quoting, guys. There's a lot of stuff that I'm like, I'm going to repackage that. I'm going to reword that. Yeah, yeah. So please don't hear this as, like, I keep quoting this. This is not, like, one of my favorite books. This won't be on my favorite bookshelf. But every now and then there's a paragraph where I'm like, whoa, good golly, what was the name behind it? Roger. Roger Levette. Every now and then, Roger has a paragraph where I'm like, from 1994? I feel like he jumped in a DeLorean and just came up here to the future. Goodness gracious. Are you telling me that you built a time machine out of a DeLorean? All right, here's this quote. Listen to this. History teaches us that faith can easily become fanaticism when linked with specific political causes. It's from 1994, not 2020. 4, 1994. History also teaches us that politics, cut off from moral roots, is destitute and corrupt. The challenge for the people of God, then and now, is to link faith and politics. That's not typically what my brain is trying to do. I feel like I'm trying to do the opposite. But it's well said here, faith cannot do it alone. Politics cannot do it all together. We too must seek not faith or politics, we must seek both. Linking the inward and the outward journeys, led by the power and presence of a very great God, will lead us through a time of chaos and difficulty. And when I read that quote and I say politics, I'm not thinking political parties. I'm not necessarily thinking about the voting season that just happened in November. I don't even know what's happened. We're recording this before that takes place. I'm not referencing any of those things. I'm thinking politics as a larger idea. I'm not thinking just American politics. I'm thinking about the external versus the internal. It's not just about my personal belief and faith and my heart and my personal responsibility. It's also about how we order ourselves and what we're doing in the world and what that does to the world in the name of God. It's also not just about those things. It's also about what's happening in my heart. It's about whether or not I'm cleaning the inside of the cup. And so we have to really, truly link those two things and make sure we're inviting God into all of those areas so that God can do a work both in me and in the world around me, through me. And those are important things that I think we can find here in Hosea 7. We don't want to be like Ephraim now calling on Egypt, now turning to Assyria. We don't want to be people who lack gratitude, don't have a good memory. We don't want to be people that have hearts and passions and motivations and desires that are corrupt or self indulgent or self concerned. We want to bear fruit in keeping with repentance. We really do want to be a changed people. And that means changing both the internal and the external in us and around us.

[Marty Solomon]

Not an easy conversation to wrestle with.

[Brent Billings]

Oh yeah, no. Simple as can be. What could possibly go wrong?

[Marty Solomon]

I don't necessarily want to be too specific because I don't. I'm not like thinking of anything specifically, but there have been various times where I've thought like, oh, well, there needs to Be some sort of government solution to this problem.

[Brent Billings]

Yeah, right, right, sure.

[Marty Solomon]

Like, it's a problem and like, that seems like the obvious way to deal with it. And then, yes, then it's like, well, but shouldn't. Shouldn't the Christians be, like, doing that? It's like, well, yeah, they should, but they're not.

[Brent Billings]

Right.

[Marty Solomon]

So then we turn to the government. But it's like, but if we turn to the government without the faith side of it, then like what? Like that's not going to actually ultimately solve the problem either. And so, yes. Yeah, it's not easy. Yeah.

[Brent Billings]

As long as we live in this broken world, we have that tension because if everybody, if every single person did the internal work and took personal responsibility and was filled with the Holy Spirit and let God lead them, then we would have absolutely no need for the external stuff because it would be great. But we live in this screwed up, broken world. So we have to have some of these things, some of these systems, some of these, you know, whatever those things are that can help us and not to make things better, push us towards shalom. But those things in and of themselves never solve the actual core root issue, which is making sure that we truly have changed hearts. Hearts that are molded by the grace of God and looking more and more like Jesus and all of those things. So it really, really trul. Is as long as we live on this side of a new heavens and a new earth, it really is going to be a dance and a marriage of both of those realities, not one or the other.

[Marty Solomon]

All right, Marty, I guess we'll end it there. Kind of a classic Bama episode. Only half an hour.

[Brent Billings]

That's right. That's right.

[Marty Solomon]

And yet somehow, maybe the biggest episode of this series as we wrestle with these huge questions.

[Brent Billings]

Oh, I don't know. I don't know how God uses these episodes and how they hit people. I mean, I don't even know. It wasn't the episode that I was thinking was gonna. In fact, it's kind of funny you said that. I thought, well, this is probably the episode that will get buried in the middle of the series that nobody will remember. But maybe, maybe it'll be the exact opposite. That would be just like my experience elsewhere. It's how God likes to work. Who knows?

[Marty Solomon]

Okay, well, you can find more details about our [e-mail] you can use the website to get in touch with us. If you want to support our work, you can do so there as well. And I would just say thank you to everyone who does. So everything that we do is made possible by people like you who have chosen to join us on this journey and support our work. But thanks for joining us on the Behemoth podcast today. We'll talk to you again soon.