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- [00:00]
Josh Boss
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Brent Billings
This is the Bama podcast with Marty Salman. I'm his co host, Brent Billings. Today we are with Josh Boss to travel through Hosea 10, finding instructions for what can be done in the face of such idolatrous vanity.
- [00:19]
Marty Salman
Yes, indeed, we find ourselves at the end of this long section of a lot of prophetic woes. It has been heavy, it has been thick, it has been depressing, because it ought to be, because we are, are we can be so rebellious and disobedient and politically worried and obsessed. Good news is in our section today, we at least have some things. Not just about how bad it is and how bad we can be, but what we can do. And that's good. I'm here for some imperatives. I've never been more excited about some imperative commandments. Like, it's been. It's been, you are an idolater. You are an idolater. And now it's like, do this. And I am here for it. I am ready to hear about all the things we can do. But, Brent, how about you give us. I think we just need two. Just give us two verses. I think we are going to have stuff to talk about before we even get into it.
- [01:16]
Brent Billings
Israel was a spreading vine. He brought forth fruit for himself. As his fruit increased, he built more altars. As his land prospered, he adorned his sacred stones. Their heart is deceitful, and now they must bear their guilt. The Lord will demolish their altars and destroy their sacred stones.
- [01:36]
Marty Salman
And everybody's like, man, Marty, that doesn't sound, like, helpful. That sounded like more of the same stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give us a second. We got to get down there. It's down there. It's waiting for us. But, Josh, what do you. It doesn't take you long. You immediately noticed something in the first few words of Hosea 10.
- [01:53]
Josh Boss
Yeah, and I have to. This one is not. It is not me, but Robert Alter speaking through me. So I was preparing for this. I saw that that first image, right, of the. Of the spreading vine is totally different in altars. He talks about, like, a dead and empty vine, this, like, dead plant image. And I think the. The reason why it's different, because I looked into the Hebrew and that word definitely means to be like, empty, withered, destroyed. I think it's probably changed here. Well, I mean, for a lot of reasons, as we've talked about, translation is tricky business. But partially, you know, the rest of the verse is talking about this fruitfulness and this producing vine, which doesn't make much sense if it starts out Empty. And the way Alter kind of resolved this is he, you know, if you were listening close, it said Israel was a spreading vine. And so he has it the opposite. He says Israel is an empty vine, a dead vine. You know, it's. It's. Right now it's dead and withered. But back when you were, you know, in the previous times, before you got all dried out and withered, when you were making all this fruit you were producing for yourself and you were, you know, building up these other altars and sacred stones, and that's kind of the. The situation we start with is. And I like that contrast in images because I feel like, especially with. Of the remazine that I dug up here, that. That contrast, the. The jumping around in time and the. The ways in which that reflects and brings more. Brings emphasis to, like, where they are now. Like, you're sitting here as a. As a dead vine and you're like, what happened to all the. The good fruitful times? Like, that kind of disjointedness. I mean, honestly, it reminds me a lot of the conversation we had the last time I was on the leadership and the priests and that being connected to this huge fallout that has rotted things to the very core.
- [04:07]
Marty Salman
Yeah, absolutely, 110%. And yeah, we have more of this. Same talk was a couple episodes ago with Reid talking about how empty is empty. So this note that you have from Alter about Israel was an empty vine. There was a time, apparently because of all this fruit, they're empty now. But there was a time it was working real good. Like, there was a time where fruit increased. He built more altars, his land prospered, he adorned his sacred stones. I'm not sure any of this should be alarming to us or we should feel like any of this is relevant, that a group of people could experience prosperity. I'm not talking about America. I'm talking about Christianity, Christendom, the church. I'm talking about our families. I'm talking about whatever, like, not to be deceived by what seems like all of this wonderful prosperity and blessing we have now heard for like six chapters in a row. Israel thought everything was going well. Last chapter, they thought the stuff was good. It actually makes them unclean. Israel thought they were doing this stuff, but it's actually empty. And if it's empty, how empty is that empty? Like, this fits everything we've been looking at for. For quite a handful of chapters.
- [05:20]
Josh Boss
Yeah, I like what you just said about being deceived by how well things are going because verse Two talks about the deceitful heart. And I feel like that works specifically with the word used for deceit here, because later on, it uses a different word for deceit in a different context. But this is the word for deceit that has to do with smoothness. And I feel like that works very well with that image you painted of, like, you kind of let yourself be deceived into thinking, like, yeah, this will just go on forever. The party is never going to die. We can just keep squeezing more and more profit for ourselves out of this.
- [06:02]
Marty Salman
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And so if we've been following along and we're like, okay, okay, I got this. Goodness gracious, Hosea, cut me some slack. Don't worry. What can we do? Well, we still got to. Hold on. We still got some. So, Brent, you got to give us a little bit more. We got a few more verses before we can get into any. What we can do stuff. And I bet there'll be some goodies in here. I bet there's going to be some stuff. So we'll keep listening. Brent, take it away.
- [06:29]
Brent Billings
Then they will say, we have no king because we did not revere the Lord. But even if we had a king, what could he do for us? They make many promises, take false oaths, and make agreements. Therefore, lawsuits spring up like poisonous weeds in a plowed field. The people who live in Samaria fear for the calf idol of Beth Aven. Its people will mourn over it, and so will its idolatrous priests, those who had rejoiced over its splendor because it is taken from them into exile. It will be carried to Assyria as tribute for the great king. Ephraim will be disgraced. Israel will be ashamed of its foreign alliances. Samaria's king will be destroyed, swept away like a twig on the surface of the waters. The high places of wickedness will be destroyed. It is the sin of Israel. Thorns and thistles will grow up and cover their altars. Then they will say, to the mountains, cover us, and to the hills fall on us.
- [07:30]
Marty Salman
I'm betting last time you were with us, Josh, you. Actually, this just happened, Stan, the way we did our schedule. You happened to cover these same references twice in these episodes. But what other things have you thought of? Have you seen. What other stuff are you hearing? I think maybe you're seeing some other references here. Are you seeing Genesis callbacks? What's going on?
- [07:52]
Josh Boss
Oh, thorns and thistles.
- [07:54]
Marty Salman
Oh, hey, look at this.
- [07:56]
Josh Boss
In fact, the word for thistle there in the Hebrew dardar, only used in Genesis 3. And here.
- [08:01]
Brent Billings
Whoa.
- [08:03]
Josh Boss
Yeah, yeah.
- [08:04]
Marty Salman
No, Are you serious?
- [08:06]
Josh Boss
Yeah, because.
- [08:07]
Marty Salman
Okay, hold on.
- [08:08]
Josh Boss
But it's exactly the same phrase too.
- [08:10]
Marty Salman
Whoa, hold on. Okay, so. Okay, hold on. I literally had no idea you were going to say that. The word is dardar, which I was taught. I don't know how this shows up in the Hebrew. I don't know if it's a Masoretic text discrepancy. I don't know if it's Noga Harovini who makes the connection, but that is crazy. Like, I'm trying to hold myself together over here because I was told that's the tree of judges 9 where they go asking for as judges 9. I might have my reference off when they go asking for a king and the prophet tells them a parable and says, the king's gonna. Isn't that the Judges nine Avimelech.
- [08:49]
Josh Boss
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [08:49]
Marty Salman
And the king says, oh, the grapevine. Oh, gosh, this is so good. Oh, my goodness. Because it's the grapevine. Be our king. I make wine that glads the heart of men. It's the olive tree. Be our king. I make olive oil. You know, it's wonderful. And like, why would I want to do that? And then they went to and I was told it was the dardar tree. It must not be that way in the Hebrew if it doesn't show up. Yeah, but I was told it was the dardar that they go to and it says, sit in my shade. Which we have all the vine imagery in Hosea that we've been looking at. But then this whole section you just read, Brent, starts with, we have no king because they did not revere the Lord, because we did not. Even if we had a king, what could he do for us? And then they make promises and fall. It feels like play by play. When you said dardar, I'm like, you have got to be kidding me. Can I make the connection? Brent, are you doing any wicked word searching over there? What's going on?
- [09:39]
Josh Boss
I'm there. So the word in Hebrew there is Atad.
- [09:42]
Marty Salman
So it is the Atad tree.
- [09:44]
Josh Boss
But here's the thing. I think that image, I think that is a dead on pole because we have. I mean, especially like you said, we have the grapevine image. We have this question of who will be king. And also with like the Genesis 3 imagery in there, right? It's like if the curse from Genesis 3 on the Earth that it will produce thorns and thistles. And then they're tying in this, where the king is the thistle, it's like saying, like, the kings have become the curse. The kings are the leadership is what is cursing the land. And it is like. It kind of plays into this image of, you know, the. The ironic or fitting, I guess, reversal of the. The thistles and thorns covering over the. The altars, like, consuming them.
- [10:37]
Marty Salman
Yep.
- [10:37]
Josh Boss
Which I wonder if also. I mean, there might be a little. This is probably a stretch, but it also, that image reminds me a bit of the. The thorny soil. I know. You know, there's definitely some room here for us to bring in some four soils.
- [10:51]
Marty Salman
Oh, goodness gracious. Well, don't go too far down that road, but I like that.
- [10:56]
Josh Boss
Okay. Yeah, that's. That's really good. And I'm. I'm so glad you brought that up, because I just. I knew that there was like. Like, this is a Super explicit Genesis 3 Remez, but I didn't super know what it was connected with other than just, you know, they're talking about sin. They're talking about the consequences of sin. The Genesis 3 thing fits perfectly. But, yeah, the way judges nine works in there, that. Oof. That's a little. That's a tasty little gumbo there.
- [11:25]
Marty Salman
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so while you're doing that, keep going. Like, you referenced things like, did you have anything else that you had dug up from Beethoven?
- [11:34]
Josh Boss
Right. So this chapter actually changes it because earlier we had referenced the real Beethoven. And so what's interesting is here it gives us another piece of data because it tells us that there is a calf at Beita Venture. Now, there isn't a calf at Beethoven. There were two golden calves. One was in Dan, one was at Betel.
- [12:01]
Marty Salman
Betel, Right.
- [12:02]
Josh Boss
And so. And. And this is not something new, like a lot of commentators point out. Like, this is kind of a derogatory way of referencing Betel, which they'll end up talking about directly later in the chapter. But in this sense, I think on one level, on the peshat level, they're definitely referencing Beyth El and calling it Beyth Aven, which aven means iniquity and suffering. So there's, like, a very clear statement being made there. But if I remember correctly, the other previous connection we made with Beit Aven was with the. When Saul brings out the ark.
- [12:42]
Marty Salman
Yes.
- [12:43]
Josh Boss
Alter connects in verse five here, where it talks about the. The people mourning over the loss of the calf idol. He says that seems like a reference to the people when they lose the ark.
- [12:59]
Marty Salman
Okay.
- [13:00]
Josh Boss
That it's the same language. Like, they're. They're going to mourn over the loss of these idols the way that they had previously mourned over the loss of the ark, the loss of, you know, God's. God's seat of presence.
- [13:13]
Marty Salman
Right.
- [13:13]
Josh Boss
I think this kind of goes like it is multiplying and, and really emphasizing like how. How root deep this, this problem is. Like, they are like that. That dependence on the. The kind of complex of idolatry and alliance and reliance on foreign nations and this, this whole system they have built, they're so like, tied into it that, that losing their, losing their idols as like plunder to their current allies is like just going to like, it's going to destroy them emotionally. Which is such an interesting point to bring up. Especially like, while Hosea is like, talking about how like, like they're mourning over their idols. Like, and he's talking about how, you know, this whole book is about how wrong this, this current state of affairs is. And it's kind of just revealing how deep seated this, this need and this, this love is. Like, it feels like they're losing God's presence by losing these. And, and we should hold on to this too, because there are. That. That will come back. But the other interesting thing here is that in verse eight, right at the end of the chunk, we just read when they are, when they're crying out to the mountains, they say to the mountains cover us and to the hills fall on us. And in the Hebrew, the word for hills there is geva. Oh, hey, yeah, the same as Gibeah. Like that's. And we're, you know, we're gonna, they're gonna reference that explicitly. But you know, for those who don't remember, that's the judges 19 where the, the awful abuse of the. The Levite's wife and the.
- [15:12]
Brent Billings
Yeah, that came up in, in Hosea 9 as well on the last episode.
- [15:16]
Josh Boss
Oh, okay.
- [15:17]
Marty Salman
Yeah, well, yeah, and we were. And the other. That's also worse. I mean, your references, Brent, in the last episode to Saul. Like, it's where Saul goes to get his soldiers. Saul goes there to get his 600 fighting men. And so there's another Saul connection between the same words.
- [15:34]
Josh Boss
Yeah.
- [15:35]
Marty Salman
So we were talking Gilgal last episode, Josh, and we were trying to place what the Gilgal reference was and how many times it's used in the Saul story. And I wasn't sure if that's what it was or if there was even more there.
- [15:48]
Josh Boss
But anyway, I mean, yeah, that would fit in a couple ways, both with like some of the ark imagery and all that. But the other thing that Stuck out to me was this image of the twig on the waters. And what's interesting is. Well, first of all, the word for twig there is synonymous with the word for wrath because it's this idea of, like, a broken twig that's been, like, snapped off of a tree or something. But also, like, the. The fact of, like, this twig being on the surface of the waters, like, I don't know, that kind of sounds like maybe Amara reference, you know, throwing the. The branch into the bitter water.
- [16:31]
Marty Salman
Sure, sure.
- [16:32]
Josh Boss
It also potentially, like. I mean, I don't know if it. Like the creation element of being on the surface of the water. Like, that feels a little bit of a stretch, but I don't know. It's a. It's a kind of a. It's a very specific.
- [16:45]
Marty Salman
Yes.
- [16:46]
Josh Boss
Image. Right. Like a twig being thrown onto water. Like, it.
- [16:49]
Marty Salman
Right.
- [16:50]
Josh Boss
It seems intentional, especially since it's, like, it isn't fitting with the rest of the imagery. It's not talking about thorns.
- [16:59]
Marty Salman
Right.
- [16:59]
Josh Boss
And that sort of thing. Or vines.
- [17:01]
Marty Salman
Right. Yeah.
- [17:02]
Josh Boss
So, yeah, that's. That's. There's a lot of, like, layered imagery, and it does all seem to be emphasizing the same things. You know, they're calling, you know, beit el, beit aven. They're emphasizing the. The corruption and the. Not just the. The. The. How sinful, how far off the path they've gotten, but also the suffering that has come along with that. That now they're withered. Now it's this stick that's been snapped off of the tree, and it's just being tossed about. Like, you know, this thing that was once firmly rooted is now just being tossed by waves and at the. At the mercy of God's wrath. And I wonder if the Mara reference is like, because, you know, with. With Mara, that's. Is that where they have to drink the bitter water? Am I mixing that up? Gosh, that's embarrassing.
- [17:57]
Marty Salman
Mara would be the water that was bitter that he threw a. He threw a stick into and not. And the reference is not his staff. He throws a twig, essentially, is the same idea into the water to make it. And it becomes sweet.
- [18:12]
Josh Boss
Right. This isn't right. I'm mixing this up with where they have to. To drink.
- [18:16]
Marty Salman
To drink the. That's a.
- [18:17]
Josh Boss
No, the golden cap. That's what I'm.
- [18:18]
Marty Salman
That'd be exc. This later. Yeah.
- [18:19]
Josh Boss
The golden calf is definitely a. Going to be a big theme for this chapter, so.
- [18:24]
Brent Billings
Yeah, we do have calf idol.
- [18:26]
Josh Boss
Yeah. And that. And that idea of having to Drink down the bitter water. That's really interesting for me. And identifying them with the. Not the people who are thirsty, but with the twig that is there to purify the water. Like, maybe the idea here is that the. The kind of like what we talked about back in chapter five with, like, you know, the consequences of your actions, like, they can't really be averted at this point. There's going to be consequences that you just. You got to eat. You got to eat the loss. You got to eat the suffering that has been prepared for you. And trust at this point in the story, looks like believing that there will be fresh water at the end of that for. For the next couple of generations down the line.
- [19:14]
Marty Salman
Yeah, absolutely.
- [19:15]
Brent Billings
One other thing before we move on the verse 8 reference there. The high places of wickedness will be destroyed. Wickedness is aven.
- [19:23]
Marty Salman
Oh, hey, that's good correlation.
- [19:26]
Brent Billings
Love that I even like that phrase. It is the sin of Israel. Sure. Like going back to the. The Beth aven from earlier and people mourning over it. Like, mourning over the loss of these idols. Like, Israel's sin is that they're not even mourning over the loss of God at this point. They're mourning over the loss of these false idols.
- [19:44]
Marty Salman
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yep. I love that connection, 100%. Give us just a few more. Give us, like, three more verses, Brent, and we'll set up our. We're still not to the how tos yet, but we're going to set them up.
- [19:57]
Brent Billings
So you've promised, Marty.
- [19:59]
Marty Salman
I know they're coming. They're coming.
- [20:00]
Brent Billings
Since the days of Gibeah, you have sinned Israel, and there you have remained. Will not war again. Overtake the evildoers of Gibeah. When I please, I will punish them. Nations will be gathered against them to put them in bonds for their double sin. Ephraim is a trained heifer that loves to thresh. So I will put a yoke on her fair neck. I will drive Ephraim. Judah must plow, and Jacob must break up the ground.
- [20:28]
Marty Salman
All right, this idea of Judah must plow, Jacob must break out, break up the ground. God's going to drive Ephraim like a trained heifer, like there's work that's going to be done. Like they're going to plow up. They're going to break up some ground. That's going to start setting up our how tos, our four imperatives we're going to run into here in the next few verses. But it's giving me. Here I go, Brent. I'M going to do it again, Brent. It's giving me soils is what it's giving me. I am hearing. Hopefully I don't do this every time I think of a reference, but parable of the soils. We often say parable of the sower. Josh, you were hinting at this earlier. I don't know if it's here, or maybe you want to wait a little bit, let us get a little bit more stuff on the table. What do you think the four soils.
- [21:12]
Josh Boss
Would be really interesting with the how tos.
- [21:14]
Marty Salman
Okay.
- [21:15]
Josh Boss
But I. I do have a couple interesting things. One of them is an altar point. So has. There are two things. So first of all, he starts by pointing to the. The bit where they reference Gibeah that, like, since Gibeah, since that, like, you know, kind of. I shouldn't say high point, but that notorious high point of. Of sin and. And wickedness, like, you've like that since then. This has been a reality. Which kind of harkens back to how, like, that kind of sin redemption cycle that, you know, we. We talk about. But the. The part where it says they're still there. Alter has a different translation for it. He says, I'll just read it from him. From the days of Gibeah, Israel offended there, they took their stand. And then here he puts it as a quote of what the people there said. War will not overtake them in Gibeah against the wrongdoers. And his take on it is basically saying they were confident in what they did at Gibeah. They weren't ashamed of it. They thought, like, nothing's going to happen to us. And then, you know, Israel bands together to put a stop to that. And that sense of, like, not even being ashamed and not even being worried about consequences feels very fitting. In addition to the fact that there's already been references to, like, wanting to be covered, wanting to be hidden and not be seen.
- [22:53]
Marty Salman
Right, right.
- [22:54]
Josh Boss
And then in the next verse, when it talks about. In verse, is it verse 10? Yeah. So that word for that in the NIV, it translates as punishing them. Can also mean to yoke animals.
- [23:13]
Marty Salman
Yes. Yep.
- [23:15]
Josh Boss
And what's also interesting is the. The double sin. Most translations have double sin. What's very weird is that the putting them in bonds, yoking them for their double sin. The word there is basically ayin, like the word for I. Yeah.
- [23:36]
Marty Salman
Yes.
- [23:37]
Josh Boss
Which is very weird. But the. If we think about, like, on a practical level, what their double sin would be, like, what immediately pops into your head. It's the two golden Calves, right?
- [23:48]
Marty Salman
Oh, sure. Yeah. Yep.
- [23:49]
Josh Boss
It's a double sin. And he's talking about yoking them.
- [23:52]
Marty Salman
Double sin, sure. Two calves, 100%.
- [23:54]
Josh Boss
Exactly. And he's saying, like, you. And then what's the immediate next image? Like, you are a calf that likes to thresh.
- [24:03]
Brent Billings
Right.
- [24:03]
Josh Boss
Which threshing is like the. When you get the. They're stepping on and crushing out the good kernels from the chaff. He's like, you love just squeezing the nice part out of everyone else's suffering, but I'm going to make you plow. Like, you have got to buckle down. Like, that is the. That is the work ahead of you. And I think that even works with this idea of, like, I'll put a yoke on your fair neck. Like, you have this.
- [24:29]
Marty Salman
Yeah.
- [24:30]
Josh Boss
You're not used to pulling. You're used to stepping on. And that's about to change.
- [24:34]
Marty Salman
Yeah, yeah.
- [24:35]
Josh Boss
And this, I think it's really interesting to the way it jumps from Ephraim to Judah, because that's like. That's a weird addition, right? Like, Judah's the other kingdom. Like it.
- [24:48]
Marty Salman
Yeah.
- [24:49]
Josh Boss
It kind of reminds me all the way back to the beginning with. With Jeroboam, where God was like, hey, you need to. You need to separate. But the ultimate goal is to, like, come back together. And specifically, the reason why God is mad at him for building the golden calves is because he does that so that they never go back to the temple to try and keep the separation permanent. Even when God's prophet said, we're going to create this separation, but it's always with the idea of reuniting. And so the golden calves are not just. It's not just like idolatry. And idolatry is bad. It's idolatry with the purpose of making this split permanent for all future generations. It's a symbol of. Yeah. Defying God on that level and keeping this war between. Within Israel, this civil war kind of becomes permanent and even cultural. And I just. I love that. That image of, like, now. Now we've got to buckle down and. And do the work. And this. This image of two calves that symbolizes that commitment to separating and. And taking care. What started as them defending and taking care of themselves is now turned into leadership taking care of itself and doing the exact same thing that Judah was doing to oppress them and, you know, stepping on people and oppressing them and becoming empire.
- [26:15]
Marty Salman
Goodness gracious. That's. I'm sure there's nothing to see there. Nothing to see here. America. I know in our American context. I wonder if we have a double sin. I wonder if we have two cabs. I wonder if we. We wouldn't be, like, trying to. We wouldn't set it up on purpose to separate people. Like, we wouldn't do that. Like, we wouldn't. We wouldn't cancel other sides. Like, this is nothing to see here.
- [26:37]
Josh Boss
I don't even really know what you're talking about. That sounds so weird. I've never.
- [26:41]
Marty Salman
Well, before I get myself into trouble.
- [26:43]
Brent Billings
I don't know what you're talking about because there's so many possibilities.
- [26:47]
Marty Salman
Yeah, I know, I know. Well, before I get myself in too much trouble, what I'm also hearing when you talk about this is there's. We don't catch it in the English, but in the Hebrew, there is some repetition. There is some parallelism happening. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Which is interesting based on what I'm going to propose in the next verse. So it's time for our how to's. All four imperatives are going to show up in one verse. Brent. So you just have to read us one verse, Hosea 10:12.
- [27:17]
Brent Billings
So righteousness for yourselves, reap the fruit of unfailing love, and break up your unplowed ground, for it is time to seek the Lord, until he comes and showers his righteousness on you.
- [27:30]
Marty Salman
So in this verse, we're given four imperative commands. Sow, reap, break up, and seek. End up being these four how to's. What are we supposed to do? We've listened for five chapters, six chapters of condemnation, of woe, of warning. It's time to do something. What are we going to do, Marty? Well, we're going to sow, we're going to reap, we're going to break up, and we're going to seek. Now, originally, when I looked at this, I was like, man, that's beautiful. But they're out of order. Like, you want to break up, and then you want to sow, and then you want to reap. But then I was like, well, where does seek go? Like, does seek go first? Like, do I seek and then do I break up? Do I break up and seek and then sow and reap? Did I? And I've started wondering if these. If this isn't actually a parallelism of essentially two movements. Sowing and reaping, breaking up and seeking. Like, I'm wondering if sowing is supposed to be related to breakup. Because it's like, so, righteousness, reap the fruit of love, unfailing love. And I'm like, okay, that's great, Jose. I just don't know what you're talking about. Like, what is it? Like, what will it actually mean to sow righteousness? And what is it? Like, what is it? Like, what does the fruit of love like look like? And then I have. I have breakup and seeking, and that starts to maybe make a little bit more sense. And I wonder if I'm supposed to actually understand sowing and reaping. I don't know. I'm speculating through the lens of breaking up and seeking. And whenever. And this is my teacher, this is Ray coming through. Because whenever we did this verse, and this was a big verse for Ray, it's a big verse for me whenever I take students over to Israel. Whenever we studied this verse, like, how are you going to break up? Like, Ray would make a big deal about how are you going to break up your unplowed ground? How break up. What does it mean to break up your own plowed ground? How do you break it up? And then he would scream Jeremiah 23, which I found interesting because. Brent, we just read Jeremiah in the last episode. Indeed we read Jeremiah 20. He said, if I try to keep his word in my chest, it becomes a fire. If I say, I won't speak of this anymore. I'm done. I'm done being a prophet. His word becomes a fire in my chest. Give me Jeremiah 23. Brent 25, 29.
- [29:55]
Brent Billings
I have heard what the prophet said say, who prophesy lies in my name. They say, I had a dream. I had a dream. How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets who prophesy the delusions of their own minds? They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name, just as their ancestors forgot my name through BAAL worship. Let the prophet who has a dream recount the dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain declares the Lord, is not my word like fire, declares the Lord. And like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces.
- [30:36]
Marty Salman
And I can remember Ray just shouting, is not my word. Like a. Like a fire and like a hammer that breaks the rocks. And that was just one of these, like, moving moments, like, this isn't the end game, it's the beginning. Like, where do we go to start this breaking up, this plowing, this sowing? It starts by going back to the things that we always. Starting with is not God's word. Like a fire to burn away the thorns? It just said thorns and thistles. Will grow well, what burns away thorns and thistles? Fire. What breaks up the rock? What breaks up your unplowed ground but a hammer? It's the word of the God that provides a starting place to begin this. And I hear you read that paragraph and I'm like, golly, it sounds like a page right out of Hosea. Like, sounds like all these the delusions of their own mind. Ancestors forgot my name through BAAL worship. Let the prophet who has a dream account of his dream. Let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. And give me just the rest of that. Give me the rest of Jeremiah 23 there, if you don't mind, Brent. Let's just hear that in context of what we breaking up our unplowed ground sowing. Don't sow among thorns. All of that. Give me one more.
- [31:46]
Brent Billings
Therefore, declares the Lord, I am against the prophets who steal from one another, word supposedly from me. Yes, declares the Lord, I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare the Lord declares Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams, declares the lord. They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies. Yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least, declares the Lord. When these people, or a prophet or a priest ask you, what is the message from the Lord, say to them, what message? I forsake you, declares the lord. If a prophet or a priest or anyone else claims this is a message from the Lord, I will punish them and their household. This is what each of you keeps saying to your friends and other Israelites, what is the Lord's answer? Or what has the Lord spoken? But you must not mention a message from the Lord again, because each one's word becomes their own message. So you distort the words of the living God, the Lord Almighty, our God. This is what you keep saying to a prophet. What is the Lord's answer to you? Or what has the LORD spoken? Although you claim this is a message from the Lord, this is what the LORD says. You use the words, this is the message from the Lord, even though I told you that you must not claim this is a message from the Lord, therefore I will surely forget you and cast you out of my presence along with the city I gave to you and your ancestors. I will bring on you everlasting disgrace, everlasting shame that will not be forgotten.
- [33:25]
Marty Salman
I just keep hearing, I just hear such a similar message to what we've heard all throughout Hosea. We've heard earlier in Hosea, the people wanting to go to God for responses, going to God for answers. These feel like such similar messages coming out of such similar places. And Hosea says it's time. It's time to. The other thing that I didn't hear in the actual words of Jeremiah, but I kind of hear in the in between, the reading between the lines is quit going to prophets looking for a message from the Lord. It's time to actually get about the repentance. It's time to actually break up and seek the Lord. It's time to sow righteousness. It's time to reap the fruit of unfailing love. And that's something that I hear that seems to be consistent when you think of these sowing, reaping, breaking up, seeking. What are the things that you see, Josh?
- [34:16]
Josh Boss
Oh man, I love what you pulled out with the parallelism here because there is such a disjunction there. And I think it's really important, especially for you listeners out there, when Marty said this is where we get to talk about what to do. And we only get one verse of it, the next verse is going to kind of be a little bit of an inversion of this. And as we know historically, this isn't necessarily what happened, but especially as we hear echoes of our own situation today here, I think it's very important that we sit on this 12th verse because it is so important. And one of the things I want to add to what you were seeing, Marty, structurally, is that there's another thing that's out of order because what are we supposed to be sowing? Righteousness.
- [35:11]
Marty Salman
Righteousness. Yeah.
- [35:12]
Josh Boss
But what's the very last thing mentioned.
- [35:14]
Marty Salman
That God showers his righteousness on you?
- [35:17]
Josh Boss
So where do we get the righteousness from God?
- [35:19]
Marty Salman
Seek the Lord. Awesome.
- [35:20]
Josh Boss
Seeking him until he shows up and then we get the righteousness. So what are we sowing?
- [35:25]
Marty Salman
Right.
- [35:25]
Josh Boss
And what's interesting if you look in the Hebrew is that it doesn't just say so righteousness. It's a. It has the lamed preposition in front of righteousness. It's like it's saying so toward righteousness.
- [35:36]
Marty Salman
Toward righteousness. Yeah, right.
- [35:38]
Josh Boss
So with your eye upon what righteousness looks like. And you know, on one hand I think that puts us in the right frame of mind. Like we're going to only have a vague idea of where to go to start. Like, what is it we're starting to sow? What is it we are starting to. I mean, we could think about this image wise. The idea of seed is also the idea of the next generation and the people that come after us. Like, we are having to look toward, like, what will be living righteously for them because we're not going to be the ones to receive that showering. It's what can we plant? What tamarisk trees can we plant today? Even if we don't plant it in the right soil and we don't know how to tend to it, like, plant in that direction and then reap chesed. Reap that kindness, that unfailing love. And I love that inclusion. Like, there is a still, even at this moment and even with Hosea a breath away from saying, but you're not going to do that. You're going to mess up. He's still saying, you can reap unfailing love. You can reap that kindness, that Avraham hospitality. It is still there for you to receive. And I want the audience to hear that. Like, even if everything seems crazy and, and you know, you're holding tight onto the golden calf because it feels like this is the only lifeline you have. God is saying here. Even if you just, you don't even have to sow righteousness, brand righteousness, if you so toward that direction, if you just turn around and it's like what we always say with repentance, like, just turn around and, and go like that act in and of itself, even if it's incomplete, even if it's not all the steps of repentance that will still bring in kindness. Like the, and this is true, like, even outside of the Christian body. I, I am so surprised at how, you know, I engage with a lot of students. Some of them don't consider themselves Christian and they have a lot of grace for the church and just people in general, like, there is so much grace and kindness there just for starting to plant a different kind of seed.
- [38:04]
Marty Salman
Yeah.
- [38:06]
Josh Boss
And then to talk about, like, breaking up and seeking the Lord. I mean, I know it's a dirty word, but like, isn't that, isn't that deconstruction and reconstruction? Like, isn't that like just, just breaking it up? Not because every dirt clod you're dragging your plow through is ev. Wrong, but just because you need to create some space and there's, there's something. You just, you need to soften it up a bit. It can't be this rigid, hard, dead soil. You need to get deeper. Yeah. And, and that, that soil at one point was fertile and produced a lot of fruit. But we need to, we need to turn the soil, we need to break it up. And, and in that we have, we're. We're just, we're seeking the Lord and trusting that at some point there will be righteousness showered on us. And, and I think that's a great way to set our expectations. Like, we are breaking up hard earth. That is not a, that's not an easy job. That's hard. There's a reason they have, you know, they put cows in to, to pull that stuff because it's, it's hard work, it's heavy lifting. And we are, you know, the prophet here identifies the leadership, but also the, the people groups is like, you are the animals pulling this. Like, you are going to have to shoulder that load. And it's, it's heavy work. It's hard work. But we, and, and we have to trust that we're not going to see like that, that we're seeking God and we're not going to see the fruit of that for a while, possibly not even in our own lifetimes. And that's, that's not easy to hear, especially when you think you have a good thing going. But man, like, okay, so this is.
- [39:54]
Marty Salman
Perfect for the parable. And you got to put the parable of the soils episode in the show, notes Brent, because this is perfect. So we made a big deal about who the sower was because the seed comes from God's. The sower. God's the main character in all the parables. So we made a really big point back then. And you, and you pointed out it's God that showers. You're sowing righteousness. That seed, they're sowing in the direction of. They're preparing the soil. They're doing the work of the parable of the soils. But God's actually the one that's the sower. And then Josh Bosse, if you remember, we said one of the key ramezes was you said you might not even realize it in your lifetime. Josh. We called back to the story of Isaac and we called it a mission realized because Isaac realizes the mission of his father Abraham. After Abraham's gone, Isaac stays in the land and reaps a hundredfold, which is the reference in the soils. And it's because he reaped, literally reaped the fruit of unfailing love. He stayed in the land. He stayed committed to hospitality. He didn't argue over the wells. He suffered injustice. He did the opposite of what's happening in Hosea. He's literally doing the opposite of the people of Hosea. And because of that, so everything you mentioned There, like, worked absolutely step by step, perfectly with what we see in the parable of the soils, because it really, truly is. You're sowing in the direction of righteousness. You're staying true to it, even though you won't see the results, you're being faithful. And in that you will reap. Because it's God that sows the seed, you end up reaping a hundredfold. It's just everything you read here in verse 12. It's so perfect.
- [41:40]
Josh Boss
Oh, my gosh. Wow. That's awesome. One thing I thought of when you said this is that the whole issue of things being out of order, it disappears if you just switch the order of those two things. If your job is just to break up the ground, and you're saying, we're waiting for God to sow the seed. Seed. And then when the seed of righteousness is sown, then we'll reap the chesed. And it's. But I love that it breaks it up and says, but you can also still emulate what you know God is doing in your life today. And it won't be as good as when God reaches in and does it, but it will still. It'll still like, oh, man.
- [42:19]
Marty Salman
Yeah. Well, spoiler alert. The people of God don't take the. Don't take the bait. They don't take the advice of verse 12, as Josh said, they do. They do the opposite. So before we set them up to close, you should definitely read the last three verses here of Hosea 10, Brent.
- [42:40]
Brent Billings
But you have planted wickedness. You have reaped evil. You have eaten the fruit of deception. Because you have depended on your own strength and on your many warriors. The roar of battle will rise against your people so that all your fortresses will be devastated as Shaman devastated. Bethar Bel. On the day of battle when mothers were dashed to the ground with their children. So will it happen to you, Beth El, because your wickedness is great. When that day dawns, the King of Israel will be completely destroyed.
- [43:12]
Marty Salman
All right, what are you seeing, Josh? I know that there's some goodies here. My notes are empty because I just know that Josh Pass has got some goodies.
- [43:21]
Josh Boss
This is such an interesting bit to end it on, because it starts with this inversion of we have the planting and the reaping. And it's the opposite. You've planted wickedness. You haven't planted righteousness, and you've reaped evil. And what's interesting is that word for evil was used just a couple verses before when it talked about the evildoers in Gibeah, like, pointing to that and being like, that is the harvest of the. The wickedness you've been. You've been sowing into the ground, into the people, into the world. And what's interesting here is that to me is. Is right after that, it says you've eaten the fruit of deception. Which kind of reminds me of, you know, what we talked about earlier, of them kind of buying into the, like, oh, this will last forever. Like, who's going to stop us? But it's. It's a different word for deception. And interestingly enough, that word for deception is also linked to, like, frailness of body or, or like to be withered. And so it's this idea of, like, not only did they deceive themselves, but it's like they're so deep in their deception that now they're eating just like the most gross, like, shriveled grape and being like, what are you talking about? Things are. Things are fine. And, and that idea of them, you know, they're so stuck in this because they, Their trust is in their own path and their own, their own warriors, literally. Their military strength, like, their ability to do violence is what makes them think that they're untouchable. And there's a couple really interesting things here at the end, because when it talks about the roar of battle coming in, to me, that's very interesting, because in contrast, when it talks about the king of Israel being completely destroyed, that final image, as it is a lot of times in the Hebrew when it says utterly destroyed or completely wicked, it's a doubling of the word. And when it says the king of Israel will be destroyed, it's a doubling of the word for silencing. Like, there's this tumult growing, and then it's just going to be dead quiet and there's nothing left. And especially, like, what's interesting here too is I don't know if this is meant to be like a double meaning or if it's just like a normal part of the etymology. But when it talks about the devastation of fortresses, that word for fortress, the ro, is the same as the word for being cut off, because the idea is like, it's a fortress. You can't get in. It's cut off from the rest of the world. But I think it's very fitting, at least on that level, that they're being cut off in another way. But there's also an interesting detail here that sticks out to me because, remember, we have seen betaven used repeatedly, but Here we see them named Bethel in verse 15 there. So what will happen to you, Bethel? Because your wickedness is great. And I feel like that is. It's at this moment, like, when we're talking about just these awful images. Right before we were talking about plant imagery. And all of a sudden, once we get past verse 15, it's like it snaps back to reality. It's like, no, the women and children are going to be killed and, like, smashed to death. You, Beth El. I'm not calling you the funny joke name that I was using to poke fun at how evil you are. You are going to be gone when that day comes. There will be nothing left. It gets so real. And I think the way that it just drops all that imagery is really incredible. And that kind of leads me to the final, like, mysterious thing. Beth Ar Bell. This is a place mentioned nowhere else in the entire text. Its name seems to mean the. The House of God's ambush or the ambush of God, perhaps. Like, it's very uncertain what it means. And similarly, we have this mysterious character, Shalman, who's Shaman. A lot of commentators think this is Shaman Esser, which is the name of a couple of the big Assyrian emperors, which would be very fitting. But I found another very interesting connection in some. In a lot of commentaries in 2nd Kings 15, there is a character with a similar name, Shalom, and he is the guy who ends Jeroboam's line.
- [48:24]
Marty Salman
Oh, wow, sure.
- [48:26]
Josh Boss
And so I wonder if, especially in a verse where he's like, you know, using the direct names and kind of dropping the facade, I wonder if this name of Shalman and, like, kind of half sounds like Shaman Esser, half sounds like Shalom. Maybe he's saying, like, this is like this mistake or. Or not mistake, but this. This great sin. These. These two calves that kind of symbolically represent their divorce from Judah and going down this path, like, he. His line was ended by this guy named Shalom. And you know the history of the Northern Kingdom, there's so many assassinations and political tumult. And I. I wonder if it's saying like, that is like that. That kind of finds harmony with, like, Assyria is coming for you. Like, your. Your deals with them are not going to stop them from taking even these. These things that have been destructive for you. But you're in love with these idols. Like, they're going to be plundered by your supposed allies. Like, you've. You've given up on what is life giving, and now you're just eating gross shriveled up grapes in your little cut off fortresses, thinking that nothing bad can happen to you when you're about to lose everything. And that final image of like, they could have done a lot, Hosea could have said a lot of things to be like, your king's gonna be destroyed when that comes. But him tying it to the image of the sunrise, there's something about that that is like sunrise is usually kind of like a hopeful thing. Like, oh, there's a new day that could come, but that new day is for someone else. That new day is the space that's made after you leave and you are gone. And there is like, with all the gut punches and like you said, Marty, how much repetition there is that just keeps driving this point home. Like Jeremiah's hammer just over and over again and, and especially after opening the door and saying this is what could have happened to, to fix this. But that's not the path that was gone down and now it's just, it's going to be total silence.
- [50:46]
Marty Salman
I think that's a fantastic connection. It would make sense. One of the things that I dug into is there seems to be a lot of potential debate about, I hate to word things in a way that make people freak out, but like manuscript additions, redactions, discrepancies that potentially later, because Shalman would be later than Hosea, that would be a later reference and that would be interesting. Shallum would make far more sense because Hosea is literally directly talking about the sin of Jeroboam. That makes all kinds of sense. But it would also seem that the later manuscripts want to change it. Not because they screwed up, but on purpose. They're wanting to change it because. Because the location of Beit Arbel, it's the only place it's referenced. So we literally don't know. Most all scholars put it east of the Jordan. Some put it closer to Jordan in a modern ruin that we have. Some put it a little bit further away from the Jordan, but east of the Jordan, but just what, 20 minute walk away from Tiberias is Mount Arbel. Mount Arbel is where the caves of Arbel were, where all the Zealots were revolting at the end of Judah. Maccabees and their women and children were thrown down to their deaths from the caves and the rocks. Like the prophecy is perfect for that Arbel. And if Hosea is understood as a prophecy against renouncing violence, it would make sense that some redactors in a manuscript make that we could say marginal change or annotation or redaction in order to point it at a more modern audience. Like you are committing the sin of Jeroboam and the way you're trying to go about dealing with Rome, you're choosing political expediency at the expense of the kingdom of God. I'm not saying that's what is happening, but as I dug into it, I'm like, oh gosh, that's juicy.
- [52:43]
Josh Boss
Yeah, that's really juicy, man.
- [52:45]
Marty Salman
Fun times in the Bible. But I just love how all that fits. I love your idea there about Shalom because that would make all kinds of sense. He's the one that ends Jeroboam's reign. That is literally how the sin we're looking at is going to come to an end. Absolutely.
- [53:00]
Josh Boss
Yeah. And also with shalom, like it doesn't say in Second Kings like where that happened. But wouldn't it be so fitting with the image of silence if it's like a place that truly is just like no one knows it's gone. Gone.
- [53:15]
Marty Salman
Yeah.
- [53:16]
Josh Boss
And just like, and there's something about that that feels like kind of scary, I think especially when we consider the modern implications. But I think the scariness of it is also symptomatic of how self centered our view is of like, you know, you're the most important people in the world. And the idea of like, hey, you know what, like the, all the tumult, all the chaos, like when I think about just like everything from, you know, the, the rabid competition and Wall street and the Internet and all these things, like there is something in like when I hear like, hey, it's all gonna stop.
- [53:54]
Marty Salman
Yeah.
- [53:54]
Josh Boss
And it's gonna be quiet. There's part of me that's like, yeah, like, like the land needs to rest. Like there. Yeah, we need to plow up the ground. And there is something the, in my heart, maybe it's the more of the image of God part that's like hears that call to repentance and is like, yeah, we really need that. We really, we really need an intervention. We really need, need God to just give everyone some space and it's gonna hurt. It's not gonna, you know, the, the you know, going cold turkey like that is pretty rough. But yeah, yeah, maybe it's, maybe it's what exactly what we all need.
- [54:34]
Marty Salman
There's, I mean there's. There's some maybe things for us to consider. There maybe some breaking up and some seeking, some sowing and reaping. I don't know, whatever.
- [54:41]
Brent Billings
Yeah. I realize I've been quiet for a While there's so many dangling threads here that I'm, like, waiting to pull on.
- [54:47]
Marty Salman
There'S so many tabs open right now. That's normal for Brent Billings, but that's not normal for me. I have, like, 60 tabs open as we talk.
- [54:54]
Brent Billings
Yeah, so much. So much stuff going on. And even just, like, looking at the four things and, like, trying to understand, like, okay, what order they in, how are we supposed to, like, do we break them in 2 and 2? And even just the way it's punctuated in the NIV versus how it's punctuated in the net, I'm like, oh, so if I think of it like that, then that changes this. And, like. Like, I'm sowing righteousness for myself and reaping unfailing love, but then you seek the Lord and he just showers it on you. It's like, okay, all right, all right. So, like, there's just so many different ways to look at this and think about this and. Yeah, I know. I.
- [55:33]
Josh Boss
Something that just.
- [55:34]
Brent Billings
I shouldn't have said it. I shouldn't have said it.
- [55:36]
Josh Boss
Yeah, I know you should. You really messed us up. But this is a quick one in the. In. Because in. In verse 13, we kind of have a repetition of the thing, meaning planting and reaping, all that stuff. But in verse 12, we have four things, right? We have plant, you reap, you break up, and then the Lord comes. You seek the Lord, and the Lord comes. And in verse 13, there's only three things. And, you know, you can. Obviously eating the fruit is different than breaking up the ground, but maybe the idea is, like, instead of doing the hard work, you're just snacking and then. Then what is the absent peace Seeking God. God's not there. Yeah, see, God's not being sought, and God's not showing up and showering righteousness on you like that. Is that. Oh, man.
- [56:22]
Brent Billings
Supposed to be three, then four, but here we get four, then three.
- [56:25]
Josh Boss
Exactly. Exactly.
- [56:28]
Brent Billings
All right, well.
- [56:33]
Josh Boss
Have a good week out there, everybody.
- [56:35]
Brent Billings
Oh, my gosh. We warned them about this, Josh. We told them that we were getting ready to record with you, and you had warned us that you had, quote, found some things and you have delivered.
- [56:52]
Josh Boss
Well, I'm always happy to deliver. But don't forget, verse 12 is still real and it still works. Still real, even if nothing else does.
- [57:00]
Marty Salman
Still real.
- [57:01]
Brent Billings
Well, check out the show notes. We've got a couple of episodes that we referenced. The soils episode was 109. And then also we referenced the Isaac episode, which is episode 12. So you can go back and check those out if you want to dig into those references. But boy, those are not even like so many things, just so many books open, so many tabs open, so many notes scribbled on things. Like, we have all sorts of stuff to dig into. So thank you so much for joining us on the Bearmont podcast this week. We will talk to you again soon.