432: Hosea — God’s Avatar

Summary

The BEMA Podcast - Episode 432: Hosea — God’s Avatar

Release Date: January 9, 2025
Host: Marty Solomon
Co-Hosts: Brent Billings, Al Grover Fricks
Ministry: BEMA Discipleship, a ministry of Impact Campus Ministries

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Introduction: Exploring Hosea 11

In Episode 432 of The BEMA Podcast, titled "Hosea — God’s Avatar," hosts Marty Solomon and Brent Billings are joined by guest Al Grover Fricks to delve deep into Hosea Chapter 11. This episode marks a pivotal exploration of a tonal shift within the Book of Hosea, focusing on the portrayal of God's character and emotions. The discussion aims to unravel the complexities of God's relationship with Israel, emphasizing a transition from condemnation to a more paternal and compassionate perspective.

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Contextualizing Hosea 11

Brent Billings initiates the conversation by summarizing the overarching narrative of Hosea, highlighting the prophet's relentless proclamation over seven chapters. He notes, “Hosea has been ranting for seven chapters… invitations to really check ourselves and to work through repentance” (04:35). This sets the stage for Hosea 11, which Brent describes as a "circle back" to earlier themes, reflecting on God’s enduring love despite Israel’s recurring unfaithfulness.

Marty Solomon echoes the sentiment, expressing a sense of relief as the discussion shifts to a more tender portrayal of God. He remarks, “in the storm I will kill your king… Hosea 11 gives some sense of where the ark starts to resemble that first” (02:30), indicating a return to foundational narratives that emphasize God’s nurturing side.

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Analyzing Key Verses in Hosea 11

Brent Billings reads the first four verses of Hosea 11, capturing the essence of God's affectionate yet disappointed stance:

"When Israel was a child, I loved him. And out of Egypt I called my son. But the more they were called, the more they went away from me. They sacrificed to the Baals and they burned incense to images. It was I who taught Ephraim to walk, taking them by the arms. But they did not realize it was I who healed them. I led them with cords of human kindness, with ties of love to them. I was like one who lifts a little child to the cheek, and I bent down to feed them."
— Brent Billings, 04:03

Al Grover Fricks provides a nuanced translation and interpretation of the original Hebrew text. He discusses the term “naar,” traditionally translated as “child,” noting its deeper connotations of youth and vigor. Al explains, “naar is the word for the onomatopoeic sound that a lion makes… young people are the ones marching around with the big, fiery ideas” (05:04). This highlights God’s appreciation for the dynamism and disruptiveness of youth, juxtaposed against Israel’s drift towards idolatry and political expediency.

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The Parental Image of God

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the portrayal of God as a parental figure. Al elaborates on the Hebrew word choices, emphasizing the paternal and maternal imagery: “the word for walk isn't our usual word for walk… it's like the word ragal, which is for like… a really, really paternal or maternal image of the very first steps” (08:00). This depiction aligns with the tender actions described, such as “bending down to feed them,” reinforcing the image of God’s nurturing care.

Marty Solomon connects this parental imagery to the Christian understanding of God through Jesus, stating, “God is like Jesus… we haven’t always known this, but now we do” (43:03). This reflection underscores the continuity between the Old Testament portrayal of God and the New Testament revelation through the Incarnation.

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Compassion Amidst Judgment

While Hosea 11 introduces a softer portrayal, it does not entirely shy away from judgment. Al discusses the impending threat of Assyria and Egypt as instruments of punishment for Israel’s unfaithfulness. He interprets Hosea’s warning, “they shall not return to the land of Mitsrayim Ashur. He is their king, for they have refused to return” (16:19), as a metaphor for Israel’s rejection of God’s sovereignty in favor of political and imperial alliances.

Brent Billings humorously relates Assyria to modern imperialistic endeavors, suggesting, “Assyria probably did picture the rest of humanity as the underbrush” (16:29). This critique underscores the tension between God’s desire for a relational and faithful community and the allure of worldly power and advancement.

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Hope and Restoration

Despite the stern warnings, Hosea 11 culminates in a message of hope and restoration. Brent reads the concluding verses, emphasizing God’s promise to settle His people back in their homes:

"How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel?... I will settle them in their homes, declares the Lord."
— Brent Billings, 24:04

Al interprets this as God’s unwavering compassion and commitment to His people, likening it to a parent’s enduring love despite a child’s missteps. He highlights the imagery of doves and tenderness, reinforcing the theme of restorative love that prevails even amidst judgment.

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The Incarnation and Understanding God’s Nature

A pivotal moment in the episode is the discussion on the Incarnation and its impact on understanding God's nature. Marty Solomon shares a favorite quote from Brian Zahn: “God is like Jesus. God has always been like Jesus. There was never a time when God was not like Jesus” (43:03). This theological insight bridges the Old Testament depictions of God with the New Testament revelation, illustrating the consistency and depth of God’s character.

Al reinforces this by summarizing the episode’s takeaway: “humanity wants to press forward, we want success… the way to do that and loving, trusting relationship with God is returning to the presence of God and listening to the voice of God” (40:55). This emphasizes the importance of maintaining a relationship with God’s presence as the foundation for genuine progress and fulfillment.

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Conclusion: Embracing God’s Parental Love

In closing, The BEMA Podcast Episode 432 offers a profound exploration of Hosea 11, revealing a multifaceted portrayal of God as both a compassionate parent and a righteous judge. The hosts and guest articulate the delicate balance between God’s enduring love and the necessary discipline that calls Israel back to faithfulness.

Key takeaways include:

• God’s Nurturing Nature: Hosea 11 vividly depicts God’s tender care, guiding Israel as a parent would a child.
• Humanity’s Struggle: The tension between pursuing worldly success and maintaining a relationship with God is central to Israel’s narrative.
• Hope and Restoration: Despite Israel’s failings, God promises restoration and a return to His loving presence.
• The Incarnation’s Insight: Understanding God’s character through Jesus enhances the interpretation of prophetic texts, aligning Old Testament depictions with New Testament revelations.

For listeners unfamiliar with the episode, this summary encapsulates the rich theological discussions and insightful interpretations that The BEMA Podcast offers, encouraging a deeper understanding of biblical contexts and God’s unwavering love.

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Notable Quotes:

• Brent Billings [04:03]:
  “…I was like one who lifts a little child to the cheek, and I bent down to feed them.”

• Marty Solomon [43:03]:
  “God has always been like Jesus. There was never a time when God was not like Jesus.”

• Al Grover Fricks [05:04]:
  “naar is the word for the onomatopoeic sound that a lion makes… young people are the ones marching around with the big, fiery ideas.”

• Al Grover Fricks [08:00]:
  “It’s like the word ragal, which is for like… a really, really paternal or maternal image of the very first steps.”

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This episode encourages believers to reflect on their relationship with God, embracing His parental love while navigating the challenges of maintaining faithfulness in a complex world.

Transcript

[Al]

Foreign.

[Brent Billings]

This is the Bayma Podcast with Marty Solomon. I'm his co host, Brent Billings. Today we are with Al. Grover Fricks to venture into Hosea 11, seeing a shift in the prophet's tone as he talks about who God is and how God feels.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah. Hi, Elle. Hi. Gotta get your voice in here so people know that you're at the table.

[Al]

Happy to be here.

[Marty Solomon]

Before I just start rambling, want to look today? Hosea 11. Kind of the question that rose to the surface as I was prepping for this for me was just this abstract. I don't mean this in a literal sense. What does God? What does God look like? What do we see? By the way, Random resource, which was. Which was quoted. Brent, would you look up. When did J. When did J.B. phillips write your God is too small?

[Brent Billings]

1953.

[Marty Solomon]

1953. So it wasn't close to. I wasn't sure how far into the century it was right in the middle. It was a source that was being called on in the 94 material that I've been using as inspiration here and there. And I'm like, man, I wonder if J.B. phillips, if that was close to night, if that was like hot off the press, new. But no, 1953. I was. That'd been out for a while. It has been out for a while. But a source that lots of people reference and, and talk about and will kind of shoots in this direction of. We typically have these conceptions of God that are short sighted, they're too limited, Boxed in by theology, boxed in by. I think of EL's chart when we started the series here, of the columns and we box everything in and a constant reminder to get our eyes up and see how big this stuff could actually be. Hosea has been ranting for seven chapters. That's not fair. Ranting. He's been prophesying, he's been doing the prophet's job for seven chapters. Just letting Israel have in a lot of ways, prophetically. We've been commenting on like, oh man, it's like one of those prophetic slogs. Just one chapter at a time of just really not necessarily condemnation, but invitations to really check ourselves and to work through repentance and all those things. And finally we get here to Hosea 11 and we get some sense of what I would call a circle back, some sense of seeing where the ark starts to resemble that first. Well, the second episode, Hosea 1 through 3 and the storyline there.

[Al]

I only like to come back once it gets nice again. I did think about that myself to show up on those days.

[Marty Solomon]

It's so good. It's so good. And we don't want to lose. We don't want to lose where we've been. We won't. We don't want to. Please don't forget the last seven chapters. Don't forget all the important. Like it's seven chapters, because that's how much time it's worth spending in Hosea. That's how important these issues are. That's how important. Consideration of repentance and really examining what we've given ourselves to. Political expediency, idolatry, these violent ways we looked at at the beginning of the series. It's important to examine those things, to treat those things with gravitas and with a sober, spiritual mind. But we finally maybe get to. To taste something, maybe a little refreshing here in Hosea 11. So if El doesn't have anything to add before we get started, Brent, I'm going to have you read the first four verses of Hosea 11.

[Al]

I sometimes do think that those chapter divisions bite us in the back, because if you've been sitting there listening to somebody read this thing for 20 minutes and then you finally get to what Brenda's about to read, it's like, oh, sweet shade in the desert, right?

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah.

[Al]

But nevertheless, yeah, when you break this.

[Marty Solomon]

Up week by week, it really doesn't do it justice because I'm not sure that's how these books were meant to be consumed on a weekly podcast, broken up nicely into chapters, but I think.

[Al]

Jose had that in mind.

[Marty Solomon]

But, yeah, you probably hear this, and this hits different, but. Brent, go ahead.

[Brent Billings]

When Israel was a child, I loved him. And out of Egypt I called my son. But the more they were called, the more they went away from me. They sacrificed to the Baals and they burned incense to images. It was I who taught Ephraim to walk, taking them by the arms. But they did not realize it was I who healed them. I led them with cords of human kindness, with ties of love to them. I was like one who lifts a little child to the cheek, and I bent down to feed them.

[Marty Solomon]

So I. Boy, this is just. I mean, God was pretty upset for at least a couple chapters, using very strong language that we even had to acknowledge as we. And here all of a sudden, like at some level of fondness as he thinks back to God, remembering where they came from, God remembering those stories. And I just love that. But, El, you've kind of looked at the Hebrew here, translated it, some stuff yourself. What do you got here? When you look at this section, what do you see?

[Al]

What stands out to me, right off the top, Thinking about this in a personal way, you know, not personal to me, but on a modern listener level rather than just the historical, cultural level. One of the things that pops out is the word there that Prentice read as child is the word naar, which seems to be the word for young man. I might have said this in other.

[Brent Billings]

Places, but we have talked about this distinction before. Somewhere.

[Al]

Somewhere, naar is the word for the sound. The onomatopoeic sound that a lion makes. When a lion shakes its head and is trying to get stuff out of its mane has a picture of a young person. Because so often young people are the ones marching around with the big, fiery ideas, you know, and being disruptors. And I think it's beautiful to spend the second to notice that God loves that about us. You know, everybody loves a toddler. Micah just turned to. She was adorable. Everything is perfect. But people always say, oh, just wait till they're a teenager. Which is interesting on a variety of levels. But God says, I love that about you. I love that zeal that you have. I love that, you know, disruptor, fiery, innovative energy that you have. And so that's beautiful. In the midst of the. In the storm I will kill your king. Or the line that came just before this in Hosea 10. So that stands out to me. And then in this section, one of the things that I think gets missed sometimes is when we translate it baal, just as it is, right? A. What is that Anglicization of the word, which is just bad. But the word has a meaning. It's not just somebody's name, which doesn't mean anything. It means masters. So it's not like, you know, the name of the God is Jim. And so we just write down and then Jim, they slaughtered stuff do. It's specifically about who are God's people bowing to and turning to in the middle of, as you're drying out this really paternal or almost even maternal energy of God, right? Loving his people, bending down to them. That word for walk isn't our usual word for walk, right? That's the motif that shows up all the time. All through Tanakh, we have this word halach. It's the commandment given to Avraham that's talked about whenever we're being called back to walk the path. This isn't that word. This is like the. I moved your legs. It's like the word ragal, which is for like. So it's a really, really Paternal or maternal image of the very first steps that somebody takes where you're like, okay, and here's your next one. There you go. Good job.

[Marty Solomon]

And you're referring to the phrase I taught Ephraim to walk. That phrase or the one earlier about they walked from my face. Is that the same word?

[Al]

No, it's not. They walked from my face is halach. So rather than walking the path, they walked away. They're looking for a different master. Right. Rather than the king or parent image.

[Marty Solomon]

Awesome.

[Al]

And then takes Ephraim, which is the name. Right. Of a tribe that was adopted because not even one of the tribes of Jacob. Right. It's Yosef's kiddo, which means fruitfulness too. So you've also got this prophetic thing going on about how, like in Isaiah, God expected fruitfulness. Instead he finds sour grapes. And so we've got all these images and things that stick out lining up for me as we set up this image of God as a parent, which is so, so beautiful.

[Marty Solomon]

And the word. And you mentioned the word for masters and the Baals. And that also has, like, it can be. It can carry, like a husband type connotation. Would it even be even a fatherly? Because would they. I mean, they don't call father by the baal, the BAAL term.

[Al]

But a wife would call her husband baal, though, which certainly does fit within the prophetic im. Yeah, I presume that's what you're talking about.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah.

[Al]

And then the last little section here, there's this weird, weird line, which I love. In the original, it seems like, you know, having little training wheels on with the he led me with cords of love. But in the Hebrew, there's things that are almost jarring to me that don't make sense for a sec until I look closer. But the first part of that phrase says with the measuring lines of humanity. So the first part, instead of cord or just rope, it's specifically something like we've seen elsewhere in the prophets that they use to measure buildings and to correct straightness, which would be scary at first. Right. We've had all of this prophetic, not condemnation, but calls to repentance. And yet God then pairs that the measuring line of humanity. Focusing in it seems to me on not just that he's measuring humanity, but that he knows that we're human. Right. Going all the way back to Genesis 6, talking about these people, these humans, I do not know whether my spirit can continue to strive with them. And then ultimately he does. Right after the flood, his spirit starts an Era once again. But so how is he measuring us? What kind of standard is he holding to us? He seems to be one that is mindful of our humanity and has compassion for our humanity. And so that's also a wonderful thing to have in this really gentle parental figure. That's the energy that I get from all of these things. Bending down to feed us, teaching us to walk, you know, a little foot by little foot, healing us without us even knowing is so, so incredibly gentle. Even as we continue to turn after masters and figurines. Pestle is that word. So, yeah, a really lovely way to start out the chapter.

[Marty Solomon]

Could you also, if you grammatically speaking, could you reverse those clauses in the English and say, I drew them forward in wreaths of love with the measuring lines of. Am I reading that correctly? Like he drew them forward with the measuring lines of human.

[Al]

Yes, yes, he present axis strange. So you're looking at my actual translation there, which I didn't quite read. But yes, I do have them flip flopped because that's the way it is in the Hebrew. But yes, it's. He's drawing us forward, which is a picture of leadership again that we have in the creation story with this measuring line of humanity and wreaths of love, which is also beautiful, right? Because wreaths, huge Mediterranean image of victory. Right. And so how many parents want their kids to like, be the best and be excellent and be victorious in whatever, you know, preschool class they're in and God's like, you know what? You, you're the champion of loved ness. Here's your love wreath. You have won the task of being loved by me. Right. They're really lovely.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah, I asked that question because if I, if I flip those clauses, I almost hear him and I could be projecting, throw my own modern theological tendencies onto this, but I could almost hear him saying, I drew them forward in reads of love with the measuring lines of humanity, almost calling them to be like the better version that's in them. Like this is what they're created to be. Like. We always use humanity as such a negative connotation in our Christian mind. Like, I'm only being human. I'm only. And we associate humanity with failure rather than associating humanity with. And I love your connection to victory and reefs like the victory of humanity. The you're made in the image of Godness. You're right. Like he's calling us forward to a better version of what we were made to be in reason of love. Calling us forward to the. I don't want to say standard because we have such negative connotations. But there's a measuring line, there's a standard. There's a picture of what we could be. And he's calling us towards that.

[Al]

Absolutely. I love that.

[Marty Solomon]

Beautiful. Well, if she loves it, why stop? A good thing, Brain. You should just keep reading.

[Brent Billings]

Will they not return to Egypt? And will not Assyria rule over them because they refuse to repent? A sword will flash in their cities. It will devour their false prophets and put an end to their plans. My people are determined to turn from me. Even though they call me God Most High, I will by no means exalt them.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah. And so, I mean, obviously it's not all good news in here, in Hosea 11, but I still feel this, like, just a different tone, like. Like almost a tone of. It's because of the preceding verses in front of it. Like, there's this heartbreak. God fondly remembering, like, who they were and this raising, this familiar picture. And I taught Ephraim to walk. And yet it's not going to work out. And this doesn't have the. I don't know. To me, it doesn't sound the same as some of the previous chapters where God really is condemning. Like, this is not going to work out for you. Egypt is going to ridicule you and laugh at you. This almost feels like this is not going to work, despite our beautiful story of how our family began. Like, this is not gonna work out. But, El, I'm curious to see what you see here.

[Al]

Yeah, I'm always interested in the etymological picture behind the different words. And so, of course, in their political situation, Egypt and Assyria are really real forces. Right. But I'm curious about whether he is talking about those forces. Right? Those systems, those nation states, empires. But I'm also curious whether he's drawing something deeper and thus also applicable to us out of that place. So the word for Egypt is the word Mitzrayim, and the center root of it is the word tsar. And tsar means to be too close, to have not enough room. And in Exodus, that's always compared with the promised land, Right? It's always going to be wide and spacious and there's room enough for everyone. An image that's repeated over and over again throughout God's pronouncements that he makes. And then Ashur is the real name for Assyria. And Ashur means being able to move forward. It means being able to advance. It's like you have a machete and you're making your way through the underbrush. Which is just too thick to otherwise get through it's success. Right. And it's interesting to me to think about that.

[Brent Billings]

Sorry, I'm just laughing because I'm like, oh, Assyria probably did picture the rest of humanity as the underbrush. That's just in their way for what they're trying to do.

[Al]

Absolutely right. That's what Empire is about. It's like progress is what we're doing here. And if you just don't get that and you don't want to be part of the team, then you need to get out of the way by force or we'll make you be part of the team. Right. So there's something in this. If you're going back to the naar, going back to the young person, and you're thinking about them like experimenting and going off on their own and storming around saying, actually, the Baals are really cool. Right? The text says, they shall not return to the land of Mitsrayim Ashur. He is their king, for they have refused to return, presumably return to God. Right. And so it's like we can be the teenager saying, I remember that time, I remember Egypt. I don't want to go back there. I don't want to go back to when I don't have enough room to stretch out. And I like, I know that those things from my spiritual past were bad for me totally. But instead of listening to God and being in the presence of God and saying the antidote to that stuckness, that constriction, that oppression, instead of saying, the antidote is God's presence, all of us can accidentally end up worshiping and choosing as our king, advancement and success and more and pushing forward. And God's pointing that out about his people here. Like, I'm the one who's been teaching to walk. I've been the one who's been loving you. And now as soon as you can walk, you're like, yes, this is the thing. Forward we go onward. And they're refusing to return to him, right? To God and his presence. And we continue confuse those two things. Right? Presence is on Sundays, perhaps. But to move forward, we have to develop our strategy and do these things instead of focusing on if there is a way forward and there is a way to have success, it is in the presence of God, right?

[Marty Solomon]

El, would the word for that, that root word you're talking about in Mitzrayim, that Sar. Is it the same, Sirem? Is it the same going to be the. Any etymological connection there between the thorns earlier In Hosea, God talked about, you know, fencing her in, walling her in with serene. Which Both the idea of fencing her in or walling her, it's almost like this. I'm going to protect you by almost like that child image of teaching you how to walk. Like I'm going to fence you in a beautiful way so that you can find freedom.

[Al]

Totally.

[Marty Solomon]

And mitzrayim would be the opposite. But getting fenced in by your own abuse of freedom, right. Your own pursuit of empire. And I, I wondered if there was even a wordplay in that whole serum conversation.

[Al]

I just checked. And not etymologically, but perhaps poetically.

[Marty Solomon]

Okay, maybe. And it kind of sounds mits. Rhymes serum. Right, yeah, interesting. Okay, good to know.

[Al]

But yes, the next portions swords will hurl within their cities. And then it's probably talking about like the bars of the city gates being broken down. But the same word for the bar of a city gate because it doesn't have the word city gate in Hebrew, same word for bar is the word for loneliness. And I think there is something so true and so poignant about that that when we're storming off and we're like, yeah, I got it, dad, here I go. No, no, no, no. I don't need like your hedges anymore. I don't need you to keep me in clothes. I got this. Here I go. That loneliness is one of the things that happens both in a communal way and in a relationship with God way. It says their loneliness will be completed if you take it at the most literal. And that's followed by they will be eaten by their resolutions. So again, on a human level, in an empire level. But oh dear, I just used human negatively again. Look at that. What a good Augustinian I am.

[Marty Solomon]

Yes, indeed.

[Al]

Darn. Well, on our level, it's so easy to come up with, okay, here are my resolutions. Here are the things that I'm going to do. I don't know if this is coming out anywhere near the holiday season, but right, that's the time that we start thinking about who am I and what am I going to do? What's my new strategy going to be? This influencer told me this is their morning routine. So if I do that morning routine, I'm going to be blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And again, that's not the way of relationship. That's not what God seems to be calling us to. In fact, the next lines say, my people are hung on turning from me to the yoke. I will call them. So just like you were saying, sometimes that Thorns are there for our good. He's saying, look, if you can't walk next to me, like, we can put a yoke in there. That'll help you walk next to me. None at all will raise it off. It says so. Again, that's not a punishment thing, but a training thing. Like, you need to be with me, even though you think that you're able to go off and do everything by yourself. So I'm going to make sure you can stay with me.

[Marty Solomon]

I think this should be right on top of the holidays. Should be a great time, Brent. Right.

[Brent Billings]

Currently scheduled for January 9th. So resolution should be fresh, everyone's minds. Maybe some of those. Maybe some of those resolutions have already started to consume you.

[Marty Solomon]

That's right. I do love that.

[Al]

Well, can reform your resolution to include the presence of God?

[Marty Solomon]

Absolutely.

[Al]

I love a. I love a little new determination. I love a New Year's situation. And yet we can't be successful without attending to the presence of God.

[Marty Solomon]

Well, and here's the other thing that I love. Whenever I look at your. This is a total side note, totally irrelevant for what we're discussing today, but whenever I look at your translation on paper, I always get so many World of Warcraft images and it makes me smile. So swords will whirl within their cities, and I'm just picturing just bunches of warriors doing whirlwind over and over again. So that is only going to hit about 8% of our audience, but nevertheless, it'll be glorious when it does.

[Brent Billings]

I was not thinking of World of Warcraft, but I was thinking of a different game, same image.

[Al]

Wow.

[Marty Solomon]

Oh, yes. All right, Brent. Sorry for that distraction. We should read on with Hosea. Give us the. We're down to. We're gonna not read that last little pesky verse because I think it belongs in the next conversation. So read everything else but that last verse, Brent.

[Brent Billings]

Well, a, the Hebrew texts agree with you, so that's fine.

[Marty Solomon]

Oh, really? Oh, all right.

[Brent Billings]

Wonderful Hebrew text. Put it in chapter 12. And also, this is your series, Marty, so if you want to throw in a distraction, that is your darn tip, your call to make.

[Marty Solomon]

Absolutely. Well, World of Warcraft addressed obscure the.

[Al]

New series for next session.

[Marty Solomon]

Absolutely.

[Al]

The presence of God in. Wow.

[Marty Solomon]

Absolutely 110%. All right. We have now prompted emails that I don't necessarily need to see in my inbox, but without further ado. Hosea 11, the end.

[Brent Billings]

How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel? How can I treat you like Admah? How can I make you like Zeboyim? My heart is changed within me. All my compassion is aroused. I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I devastate Ephraim again. For I am God and not a man, the Holy One among you. I will not come against your cities. They will follow the Lord. He will roar like a lion. When he roars, his children will come trembling from the west. They will come from Egypt trembling like sparrows from Assyria, fluttering like doves. I will settle them in their homes, declares the Lord.

[Marty Solomon]

I didn't even hear it the first time. But as you read it, more doves and fluttering and bird talk were entered.

[Brent Billings]

Yep.

[Marty Solomon]

Telling you the author of Hosea loves their birds. I am convinced and I just couldn't nail it down. I spent like a good chunk of this afternoon working on a chiasm here in Hosea and I just can't, I just can't figure it out. I can't find anybody online that agrees with me. There's maybe one possibility, but there are so many things I have heard repeated and if people have been listening, they might have picked up on it. In the last couple episodes we had Josh Baase talking about Beita Ven and all these locations. There was references. Well, even just today, the whole idea of being fenced in and mitzrayim up against the wall, hurren with serim at the beginning, it just feels like there's one half second half, but I can't get them to flow in the right order. So you know what I did is I put. And by the time people hear this episode, it will have already happened. I put it in the queue for live stream with Brian David in November. Brent Billings. Okay, I said we're gonna, we're gonna try to find this. I'm gonna see if Brian can find my chiasm for me because he's, he's great at finding, finding that stuff. So I, I snuck it into the document like I was just a random.

[Al]

Question asker, but in all caps.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah, oh yeah.

[Al]

I asked him question mark, question mark, question mark.

[Brent Billings]

It doesn't matter. Brian David is a dog with a bone for the chaos. So it doesn't matter where it comes from. He's happy, he'll find it.

[Marty Solomon]

It'll be there, It'll be there. I just kept hearing words. I mean, one of the things that Josh has done in his episodes is pointed out I would have read over a lot of these names and Josh really helped us. Like, what are these? What happened here? What are these? So I don't know things about Adma I don't know about Zeboyim. Like, Zeboim is that Book of Judges. Is that where that shows up? But anyway, Elle, what do you see?

[Al]

Okay, so we already talked about Ephraim. How can I give you up fruitfulness? How can I give you up adopted member of the family? So Adama and Sevoim are always listed together. And I'm about to be so benevolent, and I'm just enjoying my own generosity. Some people.

[Marty Solomon]

Some people I already know what's coming.

[Al]

Holy believe that one of the sources. Right. When we're talking about source criticism and J and E and P and D, they believe that Sodom and Amora is one source, and Adamah and Savoyim is another source.

[Marty Solomon]

Wow.

[Al]

So a little gift to you because of my expansiveness of spirit that can tell you that.

[Marty Solomon]

So good.

[Al]

I'm just dripping with maturity right now. However, it shows up also listed with Sodom and Amora when the battle of the twelve armies. Fourteen armies, eight armies. In Genesis, when Avraham has to go and rescue Lot, he's been taken captive.

[Marty Solomon]

Yep.

[Al]

That big battle. There are two of the people who. Two of the kings who show up along with Sodom and Amora, and they also get burnt too crisp.

[Marty Solomon]

Okay.

[Al]

So textually, I think that Hosea is, you know, picking these classic images that just don't stand out to us because we don't know the names of those kings as well as we do the story of Sodom and Amara for lots of reasons that have to do with historical Christianity more than the text. But also within those words, you can still do something else. Right. There's always more layers. Just one big happy parfect. So Adama, of course, it's just the word Adam.

[Marty Solomon]

Oh, sure. Okay. Don't know why that was hard for me to see, but yeah, of course.

[Al]

And that has the idea of redness in it. Redness always goes with life in biblical imagery. So how can I give you up? Humanity. Right. Adama is also. Often we translate it humanity. But it's also the name of this town in Genesis. How can I set you down? Tzevaim is really just the word Tzava as in Adonai, Tzava Otz as in Lord of Hosts, armies as in Almighty fortresses, our God. Yeah. So how can I set you down? Like armies, apparently. Maybe you can say it's easy for God to set aside an army, but so these two groups who were warring against each other before Pro. Isn't before before Avraham showed up on the scene. One thing that does link it over to Sodom and Amora is that word in my translation. It says, my heart is overturned upon me. My sign grows hot and black altogether. That overturn word is the same word that the angels use when they're telling lot, please get out of town. Please come with us and text to know. So we talk about, like, flip like a pancake. The picture that they're doing. So it's that word. So it's God again, bringing in this picture of, like, look, judgment is not far from being at hand here. Judgment in the near Eastern way. Anyway, like, I am about to pronounce who's in the wrong and who is in the right. Perhaps that's why he's bringing that in. But in the next section, I'll still argue that he still has that parental picture going on as well.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah, we'll just keep going. I don't want to stop you.

[Al]

Great. Okay. So he says, I will not work out the burning of my anger. Which boy. What's. What is it to be a parent? Other than that, just with toddlers, you've just been clobbered in the face with something by accident, and you know it was wrong, and you're very angry, and you have to choose not to work out the burning of your anger because your kid just said, oh, no. I'm sorry. Are you okay?

[Marty Solomon]

Apparently, God's avatar is a Gentle Parenting 101.

[Al]

I do not want to subject you to those emails, so I have nothing to about parenting styles on the Internet.

[Marty Solomon]

Very wise of you.

[Al]

Okay. I will not return to destroy Ephraim, for I am God. I am not a man. So he's the ultra parent right above the quick instincts boy that's just gonna nag me now that, like, why is human always bad?

[Marty Solomon]

Sure.

[Al]

You've done it, Marty.

[Marty Solomon]

You're welcome.

[Al]

Me. You overturned me like a pancake.

[Marty Solomon]

Like a pancake.

[Al]

But, okay, so this iconic statement, I am go am not man in your inner midst, set apart. I'm really curious about that. It's the word for, like, our organs. So is it that we are set apart in our innermost? Or is it that God is present in our inner midst? That's just super intriguing to me that the poetic nature of the grammatical structures here leaves space to be like, what? Wait, what's set apart? And God's like, yes.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah.

[Al]

Wait, you're. You're set apart in my innermist. Yes. Wait, I'm set apart in my innermist. Yeah. And then he says, I will not come into a city. But it can also be translated, I will not come in with open eyes. Right. Which, again, those things go together because a city is a place that never sleeps. Right. Like, we have our cultural statement about our big bustling urban areas, but for them, it was the case because you always have a watch keeper watching on the walls, keeping people safe, watching out for enemies. So the word ir, which is the word city is open eyes. And so you can go either way there. I kind of like open eyes because when my toddlers apologize to me for smacking me in the face with a toy or whatever, I know that they're gonna do it again. There's zero percent chance possibility that their repentance is. We can sit down and have a talk about why do we have our toys and why do we have our hands and what are they for? They're for harming other people. Right. It doesn't matter. They are. At some point before they become of age, they are going to accidentally smack me in the face again. And so I almost like that as a parental picture. Again, that God says, I'm not going to come with open eyes. He could be doing both things. He could be talking about the city. Right. Because the whirling swords are in there. But he could also be playing on the. It's like a double entendre, but G rated by using that word.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah.

[Al]

So I think that's fun.

[Marty Solomon]

So when you read these last, I'm curious if this continues because I battle how to read these last. Was it two or three? Two verses here? Like, I feel like it's a hard thing to hear. It's that last thing that I feel like I will settle them in their homes in the niv. You have. I will still them in their houses. That still feels almost parental. Does that shape how you're seeing the phrases that sit in between here and there?

[Al]

Yes. Yes, it does. So it says after. So after something, right after they've been hedged back in, perhaps by these thorns. After Hashem will walk. We've got that walking again. He'll walk like a lion. In an American culture, I feel like I've talked about this somewhere before, but in American culture, we're like, yeah, we wear a lion of Judah. Shir everything to be like, woohoo. God in Aslan. Love that ancient Near Eastern picture. Lions are terrifying, and they're a symbol of chaos and disruption in the world. And if you have one, you have to write a letter to your vassal. No, that's the other way around. You're the vassal, so you have to write it to the king and say, hey, we've got a lion problem. Please come and get the lion. And then the lion gets brought back to the empire and gets dumped in a coliseum. And the king of Assyria or Babylon, once a year, goes into this giant palace complex, and it's his job to ceremonially have a hunting day and kill all the lions to show that the king is greater than the chaos of this world. And so lion imagery is about empire. It's about God being a thorn in the side, chaos against the empire. Right. So when we put the lion T shirt with the nationalist image on top of it, it's certainly an interesting sandwich. But here it's a promise about empire. Right. Because we're talking about exile, we're talking about getting stomped on by these empires. And God promises, like, I'm going to be the chaos agent who still shows up and fights for you in the midst of that. And when I roar, and I will, my kids will. It says tremble from the sea. We insert the come to me trembling from the sea, because it makes sense contextually. But it's just the word for shaking. Like when Yitzhak, when Isaac figures out that Esau is really Jacob, the blessing.

[Marty Solomon]

Oh, sure.

[Al]

So it's just the word for being scared. I mean, you can layer some cool stuff in there about destiny and everything, because that's so present in that story. But that's the first mention. It just says they'll tremble from the sea. And the sea always. Tamit, Tamid. Sea always is the place where the demons live, where the scary stuff lives, where the ghosts live. It's the place of chaos. Because the word for sea is yam, and yam is the Sumerian God of chaos. So I don't think it's a literal. Like, they're in the west. The word for west is just the word sea.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah.

[Al]

Because that's where it was. But rather, from the midst of empire, they will tremble, for they know that I'm coming for them in a positive way. Like dove from the land of Ashur they are. So he's the lion, we're the dove. Here it seems to me I will still them in their houses. And that word. I don't love subtle for lots of reasons, but it's the word for Shabbat. Right. So I'll Shabbat them in their houses like doves coming home to the dove coterie.

[Marty Solomon]

Well, that paragraph feels a lot better once you got done with it. Yeah, that's great. You Read all that. And I'm like, wait, who's in trouble? Who's shaking and who's. I think they're coming back home, but I also think they're, like, gonna get spanked. And I feel like that's. That's.

[Al]

Now you've. You've done both sides of parenting. Internet there.

[Marty Solomon]

Nobody knows where I land. So true. That's so true. Brent, you see anything in there?

[Brent Billings]

This is jumping back quite a bit, but I did want to ask about Adamah and Admah, because I was expecting Adama as I was reading it, but notice there wasn't that center letter. And I was like, is this, like, a textual difference? And they do translate it that way in the other thing. So is there anything to the extra syllable there that would, like, distinguish it or say anything about what that. Because the word just doesn't appear very often. Yeah, Genesis 12, Genesis 14, Deuteronomy 29. And here. That's it.

[Al]

So the vowels are not there, not there. Depending made up. So there. There's a shava instead of a ptah or some other vowel underneath it. But that's added much, much later and was not in mind. And usually. Right. When we talk about the Hebrew word tree, the root is at the root, and then we have all these different versions of it that come out in different branches. And so that's just the human. Ah, man. So guilty. Attempt. Attempt to distinguish between them. So no.

[Marty Solomon]

And that's the Masorites that put those in. Right. The valleys. We don't know how much we've ever mentioned that in the podcast, but it's worth knowing.

[Al]

Yes. They live in Tiberius. They live around the Sea of Gilead. That's where vowels were invented in the Hebrew language by them. And if you go to Tiberius, you'll see these giant, like, statues of vowels just by the seaside.

[Marty Solomon]

I never realized that's why those are there. That's why those are there.

[Al]

That's why those are there.

[Marty Solomon]

So great.

[Al]

Yes. We made vowels.

[Marty Solomon]

The more, you know.

[Al]

Yeah, perfect. Yeah. Hundreds of years later, not like 20 years later.

[Marty Solomon]

Sure. Right. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Okay, well, I'm going to ask Al when we close. I'm going to. I'll give you just a moment here to think if you have any. Like, if you're, like, putting your pastor's cap on, you got yourself your congregation, and you got yourself your congregation in front of you, and you're wanting to give them, like, a word from Hosea. Hosea 11. Like, what do you summarize this up? And I ask you for that in a moment. The thing that came to my mind when I read that I heard that verse, for I am God and not a man, which totally appreciate what's being said in Hosea, totally affirm that. Nothing wrong with that. It made me think, post incarnation of this beautiful reality that we have where God became a man. So in Hosea, he's a God. He's not. He's not a man, he's not. And there you go, there's your backup for negative humanity connotation. L. It's I am God and not man. But I hear that. And I always think of this beautiful thing that happens when Jesus comes walks among us. And it always makes me think of my favorite Brian Zahn quote, God is like Jesus. God has always been like Jesus. There was never a time when God was not like Jesus. We haven't always known this, but now we do. And I love that verse, makes me want to quote it. I carry that quote into the prophets with me all the time in the back of my mind, like, how do I hear? How do I read the prophets? Because it's easy to get lost in the prophets and hear for very justified reasons and a very angry God. And it starts to mess with our picture of who God is. And again, this idea of our God is too small. We start to hem him in theologically in our own minds and thoughts. And just who is this God, this idea? The title of our episode, God's Avatar. What is he like? He's like Jesus. He's like Jesus, whatever we're seeing. And what I love about Hosea11 is I start to feel like, ah, yeah, there he is. There is God in his loving kindness. This is what we realized in the person of Jesus, the fulfillment of all of Hosea. And that's one of the things that I thought. But El, when you think of that from that perspective, what are the things that you see?

[Al]

What stands out to me is that humanity wants to assure. We all want to press forward, we all want success, we all want breakthrough, and that's okay. And there's nothing inherently wrong about that, right? Psalm 1 starts with that word. Ashur is the man who walks down in the council of the wicked, et cetera, etc. So it's not that we never assure and we just like stay put and flounder until we die and go to heaven. But rather that the way to do that and loving, trusting relationship with God is returning to the presence of God and listening to the voice of God and experiencing the parental care of God and For many of us, that can be a really challenging image if we had earthly parents who didn't show that well to us. But it can also be a really healing image to return to and come to God with that Ashur. Right. He loves that we are not. He loves that we are this disruptive lion which comes back at the end. He knows that we're impatient and that we want stuff. And that's why it's safe for us to come to him with all of those things and to move from presence, move from relationship first.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah.

[Al]

So that's what I would leave for my people.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah. When you, when you say that the word that rises out of all the chapter for me, the verse is that verse three. It was I who taught Ephraim to walk, taking them by the arms, but they did not realize it was I who healed them. And that word of like, staying in that space, trusting that and trying to remember. Remember, trying to remind ourselves, trying to remind each other that at the end of the day, as we try to pursue that blessedness, that success, that whatever it is that we're trying to pursue, it was God that always taught us how to walk. It was there that we found our faithful beginnings. And it's always been God that has healed us. And so maybe a call to remember here in Hosea 11. That's beautiful.

[Al]

Amen.

[Brent Billings]

And amen with that Brian Zahn quote, the ending. We haven't always known this, but now we do.

[Marty Solomon]

Yeah.

[Brent Billings]

What is the point of revelation for that in your mind and. Or in Brian's aunt's mind, like, what is the turning point, if you know what he's referring to and. Or what do you think of when you say that?

[Marty Solomon]

I believe it's referring to the Incarnation. Like before Jesus came, the great question was, how do we interpret this? You know, when we go back to the beginning of session three and we're doing all of that setup and Pharisees and Zealots and Sadducees and Herod, and we have this whole, what is the right way? Like, this is where my conviction lies. And then even if I have my interpretation right, is my application right? Like, what would this look like if God wanted us to? There's so many question marks. Well intentioned. I don't mean fruitless. I just mean what the Incarnation does. I think what I've always heard Zahn talking about is we weren't always sure we were right. Some of the times, maybe most of the time, I don't know. We were right, we were sometimes wrong, we didn't really know. And then Jesus came and walked among us and said, this is what it is. This is what it looks like. This is who God is. This is what God looks like. Watch me. I am it. I am him. And that's when we didn't always know this, but now we do. Now we do. Now we can say with certainty because of the Incarnation, not to get too Christian theological on us, but because of the Incarnation, we can now say this is what good interpretation and application looks like. Looks like Jesus.

[Brent Billings]

Yeah. Okay.

[Marty Solomon]

That's what God has always been like. That's how I read it in here.

[Brent Billings]

I haven't read the full context of the quote, so I wasn't sure if it was that or if it was like some more modern thing that he was referring to. So that's good.

[Marty Solomon]

If he doesn't mean it that way, my meaning is better.

[Al]

Wow, there he is.

[Marty Solomon]

We've had Derek Vreeland on the podcast. I feel for some reason like I can say that he'll pass on my word of encouragement.

[Brent Billings]

What a perfect way to end this episode.

[Marty Solomon]

Yes.

[Brent Billings]

Well, you can go to the show notes in your podcast app or bam. On a stepship.com, we'll have one or two things in there. I'm not completely sure what we'll end up with for links, but they are there. I did, I did find out, Marty, the other day, that somebody was like, hey, you didn't link this thing that Marty mentioned in the episode. I was like, what? And so I went back and I was like, cool, I'll add that link in. And then I go to the episode page and I hadn't put in any of the links that we talked about.

[Al]

And I was like, dark day.

[Marty Solomon]

Brad Billings doesn't make many mistakes, ladies and gentlemen, but every now and then you catch them and it's almost fun.

[Brent Billings]

Sure. But now I'm thinking, are there any other episodes out there that I haven't?

[Marty Solomon]

Easter eggs, ladies and gentlemen.

[Brent Billings]

Go find Just a panic.

[Al]

The thing about God, he knows when creation is finished. You can know when the show notes are finished.

[Brent Billings]

There you go. All right. Well, either way, they're available for you to check out. You can use the website to get in touch with us as well. Our most up to date way to do that is always on the website. But thanks for joining us on the bamaw podcast podcast. We'll talk to you again soon.

[Marty Solomon]

Put it in the show notes. Do it.

[Brent Billings]

Do it.

[Al]

Palpatine reference.

[Marty Solomon]

Do it.

[Brent Billings]

I was like, why does that sound familiar?

[Marty Solomon]

That's what it is.

[Brent Billings]

Do it. Yeah, I'll just have to put some effects on that.

[Al]

My assistant when I was a teacher, he made that do it sound my ringtone. So whenever I would text him do it.