The BEMA Podcast: Talmudic Matthew — Marriage (Episode 442)
Host/Author: BEMA Discipleship
Release Date: March 20, 2025
Introduction
In Episode 442 of The BEMA Podcast, titled "Talmudic Matthew — Marriage," hosts Marty Solomon and Brent Billings are joined by guest Elle Grover Fricks to delve into Jesus's teachings on divorce within their Jewish and Roman contexts. This episode investigates the historical underpinnings of biblical passages, explores Talmudic divorce laws, examines Roman marriage customs, and reflects on the implications for contemporary Christian practices.
Setting the Stage: Biblical Context of Divorce (00:00 – 19:50)
The discussion opens with a reading of Matthew 5:31-32, where Jesus addresses divorce:
Brent Billings [00:43]: “And it was said, whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife is, except for a matter of sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery. And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”
Elle Grover Fricks emphasizes the complexity behind what seems like straightforward biblical directives:
Elle Grover Fricks [01:59]: “If we remember our six columns that we made a couple weeks ago, one of those columns was thinking about the possibility for harm, which seems to be something that Jesus cares about when he talks about teaching and hermeneutic.”
The conversation highlights the broad term "porneia" (translated as sexual immorality) used by Jesus, prompting questions about its exact meaning and application. Elle critically examines Deuteronomy 24, where divorce is permitted under vaguely defined circumstances such as "indecent" or "objectionable" behavior, revealing the ambiguity and potential for misuse:
Elle Grover Fricks [04:59]: “Here's a list. Unseemly, indecent, offensive, unclean, inappropriate, objectionable, and vile. That's a really confusing list to me.”
Marty Solomon references the manuscript discrepancies regarding interpretations by Hillel and Shammai, underscoring the complexities in translating and understanding these texts accurately.
Intertextual Insights: Malachi and First Corinthians (05:17 – 19:50)
Brent reads Malachi 2:16:
Brent Billings [05:24]: “The man who hates and divorces his wife, says the Lord, the God of Israel does violence to the one he should protect, says the Lord Almighty. So be on your guard and do not be unfaithful.”
Elle points out the inconsistency between traditional translations and more accurate ones, stressing the need for humility and openness in interpreting these passages:
Elle Grover Fricks [08:23]: “So before we had, if you're going to divorce, you need a get. As Marty's talked about previously, you need a certificate here. It feels like God's saying, don't do that right, violence is bad.”
Marty shares a personal reflection on the misinterpretation of Malachi 2:16:
Marty Solomon [08:52]: “That's literally not what the verse says. But translators have done this, this, this, this, this, and now like how many times have I heard that verse? God hates divorce.”
They discuss 1 Corinthians 7, where Paul provides further nuanced rules about marriage and divorce, especially concerning marriages between believers and unbelievers. This adds another layer of complexity to the discussion, making the biblical stance on divorce far from black and white.
Talmudic Divorce Laws: Detailed Examination (14:06 – 19:50)
Elle Grover Fricks humorously outlines the intricate Talmudic laws surrounding divorce, highlighting their stringent and sometimes archaic nature:
Elle Grover Fricks [14:06]: “Mitzvah number two, it is often said that women cannot write a divorce letter... women are still hugely under empowered to leave abusive situations in conservative Jewish communities.”
Key points include:
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Materials for Divorce Letters: Allowed materials are ink, dye, red chalk, resin, or copper; prohibited is fruit juice due to its transient nature.
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Witness Requirements: Two male witnesses are needed, excluding Samaritans and women, reinforcing gender power imbalances.
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Personalization: Divorce certificates must be specific to the individual, preventing reuse or misapplication.
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Formal Delivery: The letter must be personally handed to the wife, ensuring acknowledgment and formal closure.
Elle enumerates a list of 13 reasons permissible for divorce under Talmudic law, ranging from personal grievances like making unattractive clothes to more severe accusations like fornication and infertility. This extensive list paints a grim picture of the societal and legal constraints on marriage:
Elle Grover Fricks [17:24]: “Here's a list of reasons you can divorce a woman without even giving her her 200 silver pieces back for her dowry... if she struggles with infertility for 10 years.”
Marty comments on the rigidity and often petty nature of these laws:
Marty Solomon [19:11]: “Goodness, what a list. So it would appear that Jesus is offering some color commentary on that.”
Roman Marriage Customs: A Comparative Analysis (25:44 – 31:39)
Transitioning to the Roman context, Elle explores three types of Roman marriages and their implications:
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Confarreatio: A marriage reserved for the ruling class, characterized by elaborate rituals including sacrifices and public ceremonies. Divorce is rare and primarily political.
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Coemptio: Commoners engage in marriage through a symbolic purchase, where the wife's identity is subsumed under the husband's, allowing for easy dissolution without formal procedures.
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Usus: A form of "common-law" marriage where living together for a year equates to legal marriage, and separation occurs simply by one partner leaving for three days.
Elle humorously critiques the lack of meaningful divorce processes in Roman marriages, contrasting them with the structured, albeit oppressive, Jewish laws.
Elle Grover Fricks [26:39]: “Minus the pig sacrifice. Our quote unquote Christian weddings are 100% modeled off of these banana Roman traditions.”
The hosts discuss how these differing Roman marriage practices influenced societal attitudes towards marriage and divorce, noting the laissez-faire approach's challenges in ensuring marital stability and justice.
Jesus’s Interpretation and Modern Implications (32:24 – 36:47)
Marty reflects on his academic exploration of 1 Corinthians 7, drawing parallels to Jesus's approach:
Marty Solomon [32:24]: “I kept wondering if not really Paul's doing both. But I mean, is Paul doing both? Like he's dealing with a culture where he's trying to give... options within a biblical ethic.”
Elle and Marty suggest that Jesus aimed to balance the rigid and overly permissive approaches to marriage, advocating for a covenantal relationship that honors both partners and safeguards against abuse.
Elle extends the discussion to contemporary applications, urging listeners to evaluate how modern marriages honor and protect individuals:
Elle Grover Fricks [34:16]: “How are we honoring one another? How are we putting up safe fences against harm and abuse and abuse on both sides?”
They advocate for reforms at multiple levels—personal, communal, and societal—to ensure marriages are entered and maintained with respect, safety, and genuine commitment.
Marty Solomon [36:11]: “As a spiritual leader in those spaces, the two that just immediately fly off as those same principles... we love to hold biblical morality as a high like this adherence to whatever code as more important than the safety and flourishing of the human beings.”
Conclusion: Reflecting on Cultural Sensitivity and Application (37:11 – 38:18)
The episode wraps up with a lighter tone as Elle and Marty acknowledge the humorous aspects of their discussion but reaffirm the serious underlying issues:
Elle Grover Fricks [37:11]: “Ghosting other buzzwords that'll come to mind soon.”
They tease the upcoming episode on oaths, promising further exploration of historical contexts and their relevance today. The hosts emphasize the importance of understanding and applying biblical teachings with cultural sensitivity and a focus on human flourishing.
Elle Grover Fricks [37:54]: “Next episode we're talking oaths. There's plenty of craziness that feels at first a lot less applicable to us.”
Brent concludes by inviting listeners to engage further with the podcast:
Brent Billings [37:50]: “But you can find all the details about our show@baymonassipleship.com... Wrestle on. And we'll talk to you again soon.”
Key Takeaways
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Historical Context Matters: Understanding the Jewish and Roman cultural landscapes is crucial for interpreting Jesus’s teachings on divorce.
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Complexity of Divorce Laws: Both Talmudic and Roman laws reveal systemic gender biases and societal constraints that influenced biblical scriptures.
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Jesus’s Balanced Approach: Jesus sought to mitigate the extremes of rigid and permissive marriage practices, emphasizing covenantal integrity and protection against harm.
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Modern Relevance: Lessons from historical contexts inform contemporary discussions on marriage, urging a focus on mutual respect, safety, and genuine commitment within Christian communities.
Notable Quotes
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Elle Grover Fricks [04:59]: “Here's a list. Unseemly, indecent, offensive, unclean, inappropriate, objectionable, and vile. That's a really confusing list to me.”
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Marty Solomon [08:52]: “That's literally not what the verse says. But translators have done this, this, this, this, this, and now like how many times have I heard that verse? God hates divorce.”
-
Elle Grover Fricks [17:24]: “Here's a list of reasons you can divorce a woman without even giving her her 200 silver pieces back for her dowry... if she struggles with infertility for 10 years.”
-
Marty Solomon [19:11]: “Goodness, what a list. So it would appear that Jesus is offering some color commentary on that.”
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Elle Grover Fricks [34:16]: “How are we honoring one another? How are we putting up safe fences against harm and abuse on both sides?”
This episode of The BEMA Podcast offers a profound examination of marriage and divorce through historical, cultural, and theological lenses, encouraging listeners to engage thoughtfully with scripture and apply its principles with empathy and justice in today’s world.