Episode Summary: The BEMA Podcast - Episode 456: Qohelet Weeds the Garden
Release Date: June 26, 2025
Hosts: Marty Solomon & Brent Billings
Guests: Josh Bosse & Kohelet
Introduction to Episode 456
In Episode 456 of The BEMA Podcast, titled "Qohelet Weeds the Garden," hosts Marty Solomon and Brent Billings delve deep into the complexities of evil as presented in the Book of Ecclesiastes (Kohelet). Joined by guest Josh Bosse and Kohelet herself, the discussion bridges ancient wisdom with contemporary issues, examining how material reality and human experience shape our understanding of spirituality and morality.
Exploring the Roots of Evil
Kohelet opens the discussion:
"Today we are looking at the other side of the coin. Last chapter was all about oppression and solidarity and now we are looking at where that need for solidarity and liberation against oppression comes from."
[00:15] Kohelet
The conversation begins by transitioning from the themes of oppression and solidarity to the foundational questions about the origins of evil. Kohelet raises a pivotal question rooted in Ecclesiastes:
"How do we actually arrive at any kind of spiritual progress when we see so much evil around us? And how do we use that to anchor our identity as something more than animals?"
[00:15] Kohelet
Non-Abstract Philosophy and Material Reality
Brent Billings emphasizes the podcast's approach:
"We are doing non-abstract philosophy. Quite a thing to wrap our head around. We are looking at material reality. We are looking at human experience. We are not relying on traditional theology to give us answers or assumptions."
[00:15] Brent Billings
This method underscores the podcast’s commitment to grounding theological discussions in tangible, real-world experiences rather than solely relying on doctrinal teachings.
Detailed Analysis of Kohelet Chapter 5
Guarding Our Steps and the Power of Words
The episode delves into Ecclesiastes Chapter 5, unpacking its verses and underlying messages.
Brent reflects on the complexity of Chapter 5:
"In this chapter I feel like there's not a whole lot that is otherwise familiar up to this point... But I think this opening verse is a very clear reference to Saul and David."
[03:06] Brent Billings
Kohelet discusses the importance of mindful speech, especially in spiritual contexts:
"Do not be quick with your mouth. Do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few."
[02:04] Brent Billings (Reading Ecclesiastes 5:2)
She connects this to biblical narratives, comparing it to King Saul’s lack of reverence and Joseph’s impulsive sharing of dreams, highlighting how our words can inadvertently lead us into sin or cause others to falter.
Kohelet emphasizes the significance of listening:
"You need to be listening and obeying. Don't just... offer the sacrifice of a fool."
[11:30] Kohelet
Biblical References and Their Contemporary Relevance
Saul and David
Brent draws parallels between Ecclesiastes and the story of Saul and David from 1 Samuel, illustrating how approaching God with humility and obedience is paramount over ritualistic sacrifices.
"It's better to obey than sacrifice, and to pay attention is better than the fat of rams."
[07:48] Brent Billings (Referencing 1 Samuel 15:22)
Joseph’s Dreams
The discussion shifts to Joseph’s experiences, analyzing how his openness about his dreams led to familial strife and eventual downfall. Kohelet contrasts this with David’s reverent approach, suggesting that wisdom lies in measured and thoughtful communication.
"Yosef chose a way that infuriated his brothers... betrays a lack of awareness."
[21:14] Kohelet
The Impact of Wealth and the Futility of Materialism
Love of Money and Its Consequences
Ecclesiastes Chapter 5 is scrutinized for its commentary on wealth. Kohelet presents a stark comparison between the fulfillment found in honest labor and the unrest that accompanies the pursuit of riches.
"Whoever loves money never has enough. Whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with their income. This too is meaningless."
[51:55] Brent Billings (Reading Ecclesiastes 5:10)
Kohelet expands on this by illustrating how the accumulation of goods leads to increased consumption and ultimately, dissatisfaction and distress.
"Wealth hoarded to the harm of its owners, or wealth lost through some misfortune, so that when they have children, there is nothing left for them to inherit."
[51:55] Brent Billings
Laboring for the Wind
A provocative metaphor from Ecclesiastes is explored:
"As everyone comes, so they depart. They take nothing from their toil that they can carry in their hands. This too is a grievous evil."
[59:03] Brent Billings (Reading Ecclesiastes 5:18-20)
Kohelet interprets this as the futility of laboring solely for material gain, which ultimately leads to emptiness and frustration, devoid of lasting satisfaction.
Modern-Day Applications and Personal Reflections
Corruption and Hierarchical Oppression
The hosts discuss how hierarchical structures, as depicted in Ecclesiastes, facilitate systemic oppression and corruption. They draw parallels to modern institutions, where lack of accountability often leads to ethical breaches.
"It's so easy for us to use our religious identity to exempt ourselves from closer inspection of our actions because they're done in the name of God."
[20:17] Kohelet
Brent shares a personal anecdote about working in a corrupt sales environment, illustrating how systemic pressures can lead individuals to compromise their ethics.
"When you have literal quotas to meet with no way to fulfill them, it pushes you to say, oh, maybe I just... trick this person into getting something they don't want."
[47:33] Kohelet
The Importance of Genuine Actions Over Empty Words
Kohelet and Brent emphasize the need for sincerity in our promises and vows, particularly those made to God. They caution against making commitments lightly, as breaking them not only leads to personal guilt but also undermines spiritual integrity.
"Don't let your mouth lead you into sin and do not protest to the temple messenger."
[25:11] Kohelet
Final Thoughts and Conclusions
The episode concludes with a reflection on the transient nature of life and the lasting impact of our actions and words. Kohelet reiterates the importance of enjoying God’s provisions responsibly and warns against the incessant pursuit of wealth, which only leads to dissatisfaction and spiritual unrest.
"Enjoy what God has given you... don't struggle for the wind. Don't work for the wind. That is as far from the goodness of God as you can get."
[63:03] Kohelet
Brent agrees, highlighting the practical wisdom gleaned from Kohelet’s teachings:
"There's a lot here that's just good advice. It's kind of surprising to me, actually, after having gone through this with such detail, that these passages are not more common."
[68:51] Brent Billings
Closing Remarks
Hosts Marty Solomon and Brent Billings wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to engage with the podcast’s resources and participate in ongoing discussions. They stress the timeless relevance of Ecclesiastes’ insights, urging listeners to apply these ancient teachings to modern-day challenges.
Notable Quotes:
-
Kohelet: "How do we actually arrive at any kind of spiritual progress when we see so much evil around us?"
[00:15] Kohelet -
Brent Billings: "Do not be quick with your mouth. Do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God."
[02:04] Reading Ecclesiastes 5:2 -
Kohelet: "Don't let your speech cause you to sin."
[14:44] Kohelet -
Brent Billings: "Whoever loves money never has enough. This too is meaningless."
[51:55] Reading Ecclesiastes 5:10
For More Information:
Listeners are encouraged to visit berrymotsiplestroub.com for show details, news updates, and monthly Q&As. Additional resources and show notes are available on their podcast platform.
This episode of The BEMA Podcast offers a profound exploration of Kohelet’s teachings, bridging ancient scripture with contemporary societal issues, and providing actionable insights for spiritual and ethical living.