The BEMA Podcast – Episode 464: Qohelet Goes Home

Host: Brent Billings
Guest: Josh Bossé
Date: August 21, 2025

Episode Overview

In this richly textured episode, Brent and Josh complete their exploration of Ecclesiastes with a deep dive into Chapter 12—the poetic, poignant conclusion of “Qohelet” (Ecclesiastes). They unpack the literary artistry of the final chapter, wrestle with images of aging, decay, and death, and discuss the much-debated epilogue. As always, they strive to interpret the text in its historical and cultural context, deconstructing common readings and reconstructing new lenses for understanding.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Artistic Farewell of Qohelet (00:13–48:54)

• Chapter 12’s Poetic Brilliance

  • Josh and Brent open by acknowledging Chapter 12's unique poetic emphasis and its role as a crescendo for the entire book.
  • Josh: "Part of me wishes this is where the book ended, because, man, what a cool way to end this poetry. Kind of crescendoing to Qohelet, cycling back and declaring the very thing she started by saying. Everything is mere breath..." (03:06)
  • The opening exhortation: “Remember your creator/beginning in the days of your youth...” frames the meditation on the transience of life.

• Aging and Decay: Metaphors and Images

  • The hosts analyze evocative metaphors for aging—a receding of light, trembling watchmen (limbs), grinders ceasing (teeth), dim windows (eyes), and others.
  • Josh highlights the dualism of individual and communal imagery: “Now seeing, like, this painting of an individual...aging, breaking down, decaying, dying, and having that picture be of a community of, like, a little...village kind of dying down. Very interesting contrast.” (09:16)

• Complexity of Translation and Imagery

  • The challenges of Hebrew translation and the uncertain referents for some images are acknowledged, with permission for readerly interpretation: “Some of these images in this poem, we might have to just kind of shrug our shoulders a little bit and make our best guess.” (08:40)

• Gracious Facing of Death

  • Both note Qohelet’s “graceful way to face death" (06:45), which contrasts Western anxieties over mortality.
  • Brent: “Somehow brings this peace that surpasses understanding.” (06:27)
  • Return of “ruach” (spirit/wind): The final verse connects the cyclical return of dust to earth—and the breath (spirit) to God—framing all as “mere breath” (07:04–08:40).

• Allegory or Artistry?

  • Discussion on whether each image maps perfectly to body parts (“the rabbis go to great lengths to tie each image…” – 18:02), or if the poem is more freeform art than allegory.

• Repeated Themes

  • The poetic return to the motif “everything is breath/mere breath” reframes the entire philosophical and spiritual project of Qohelet.

Notable Quotes

• Josh: “Everything is breath. Everything is breath. That's what Qohelet's saying. Everything is mere breath. And maybe that's okay. Like, maybe that's the acceptance of it and making peace with it..." (46:22)
• Brent: "As it was coming out of my mouth, I was like, this sounds really beautiful. This picture is really, really pleasant." (05:39)
• Josh: "This is a picture of aging, of decay. And a lot of it is in, like, kind of using this metaphor of a town..." (09:16)
• Brent: "It’s a slight breaking of the image... this person's going to the eternal home. But then there's still stuff left behind... there's still these mourners." (27:52)

2. Communal Versus Individual Legacy (27:52–48:54)

• Mourners and the Ongoing World

  • Brent pushes on the communal residue—mourners circulating even after the individual’s death (27:52).
  • Josh connects this to Qohelet’s communal cultural context, where community persists and circles of mourning continue (28:22).

• Shifting Imagery: Wells, Pitchers, and Death

  • In-depth parsing of images: the silver cord, golden bowl, pitcher at the spring, wheel at the well/cistern—all with interpretive possibilities (31:35).
  • “Pitcher at the well” scenes evoke both romance/tropes (Rebecca/Rachel at wells) and the sudden reversals of fate—vessels breaking at the well, an image of futility or the irony of hope dashed at fulfillment’s edge (32:37–34:48).
  • "There is a kind of cruel irony to life... even my cherished dreams, those will even break, those will even fall apart." (38:19–40:41)

3. The Epilogue: “The Conclusion of the Matter” (49:03–95:03)

• Shift in Voice: From Qohelet to Compiler

  • Verses 9–14 switch to a third person, possibly an editor or scribe, summarizing Qohelet’s teaching (49:03).
  • Some see the epilogue as a "movie producer's note," perhaps softening or reframing Qohelet's existential edge (51:47). The tension is left unresolved.

• Commendation and Defense of Qohelet

  • The compiler praises Qohelet's wisdom, method, and careful selection of words—"he searched to find just the right words" (55:48–59:06).
  • Brent and Josh suggest this may not be a censoring voice but one affirming the process and artistry of the text: "All the words, literally every word was intensely thought through and was written down correctly and it was true." (59:23)

Notable Quotes

• Josh: "This person's saying, yeah, all the words, literally every word, was intensely thought through..." (59:23)

• Brent: "It's like a message from the movie producer after the movie's over." (51:47)

• Metaphors of Wisdom: Goads and Nails, the Shepherd

  • The words of the wise are "like goads, like firmly embedded nails, given by one shepherd" (60:33). Discussion on agricultural and communal imagery and its interpretive ambiguity.

• Be Warned... and Book-Weariness

  • The compiler warns against endless books and exhaustive study: “Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.” (67:04)
  • Possible tongue-in-cheek reference to Talmudic context; self-aware commentary on the limits of wisdom literature (68:40).

• "All Has Been Heard": The Audacity of Finality

  • The compilers summarize: “Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole (duty of) mankind.”
  • The translation of “duty” is debated; the literal Hebrew is "this is the all of mankind"—a phrase open to rich philosophical reflection (69:03–73:39).

Notable Quotes

• Brent: "Now that you've heard this, you've heard it all. This is the last word. The audacity of saying that is astounding." (71:16)
• Josh: “If you've been listening to this series and have been wrestling with it, take all those things you've been wrestling with and seriously reckon with: What if that is what obedience looks like?” (78:34)

4. Final Provocations & The Hidden Things Brought to Light (83:59–95:03)

• Judgment, God’s Mishpat, and Hiddenness

  • The hosts examine, at length, the final assertion that “God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.”
  • Hiddenness is linked thematically throughout the book (olam/alam—eternity/hiddenness, 88:09–88:15).
  • The role of judgment is broadened beyond punitive to encompass restoration, discernment, and the revelation of all things lost and forgotten (85:19–91:27).

• Qohelet’s Wrestling and the Nature of Obedience

  • The need to “fear God” is redefined—not as terror, but as taking God seriously in the face of mystery and uncertainty.
  • Reverence for God includes the willingness to live in ambiguity, engage deeply with life’s questions, and resist simple answers.

Notable Quotes

• Josh: "The fear of God doesn't mean we have to go around scared... but that it is a continuously active relationship." (90:19)
• Brent: "No, of course God is the one ultimately in control, but, like, God is also calling us to take these things seriously. We're not just gonna, you know, lollygag, do whatever we want, and he'll do whatever he's gonna do. Like, no, we're a part of it." (83:44)
• Josh: "There is a deep trust here. I feel like, man, I really like it." (95:03)

Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• Josh on the End of Qohelet’s Poetry:
  "Everything is mere breath. Oh, what a poignant ending that would have been. But that's me speaking as an artist." (03:06)

• Brent on Beauty Amid Transience:
  "This has a certain rhythm to it. As it was coming out of my mouth out loud, I was like, oh, this is like... This has a certain rhythm to it." (05:39)

• Qohelet’s Cycle—Returning to God:
  "The breath is returning back to God. But then what does Qohelet say right after this? Mere breath. Everything is breath. Right after giving us this image of God's breath in us. And so it almost like, reframes what it means when Qohelet is saying everything is breath." (08:40)

• The Irony of the Legacy:
  "You're trying to land the plane at your death, and it's just, boom, fireball. And like, I kind of love the messiness of that image. Like, there isn't a kind of like, oh, everything will work out like... nope. And then everything broke and was ruined." (38:19)

• On Taking God Seriously:
  "The fear of God doesn't mean we have to go around scared of him, like it's some kind of abusive relationship, but more that it is a continuously active relationship." (90:19)

Important Timestamps

• 00:13 — Introduction, framing of the final chapter
• 01:54–03:06 — Reading and initial discussion of Qohelet’s poetry
• 08:40–16:32 — Exegeting the poetic imagery of aging, death, and decay
• 27:52–28:22 — Communal response to death; mourners and society
• 31:35–34:48 — Well and pitcher imagery; irony and futility
• 49:03 — Reading and analyzing the epilogue
• 59:23–60:33 — “Just the right words;” goads, nails, and the shepherd
• 67:04–68:40 — Weariness of endless books, study, and the Talmudic context
• 69:03–73:39 — “All has been heard;” the “duty” and essence of being human
• 83:21–86:06 — Fearing God, judgment, and reverence
• 88:09–88:15 — Hiddenness, eternity, and the assurance that God brings all to light
• 95:03 — Episode wrap-up and looking forward

Summary: The Heart of Ecclesiastes (Qohelet) and Its Legacy

In closing, Brent and Josh highlight that the core message of Ecclesiastes is not nihilism, but a gracious, wise embrace of the ephemeral nature of life. The final poem’s artistry offers both a sober acknowledgment of death’s inevitability and a serene acceptance rooted in divine breath and community. The compiler’s epilogue, rather than diminishing Qohelet, provokes us to wrestle deeply with what it means to “fear God and keep his commandments”—not as mere duty, but as the very essence of a fully-engaged, reverent humanity in a mysterious, ever-changing world.

For further study resources and past episodes, visit beymadiscipleship.com.