The BEMA Podcast

Episode 482: The Chosen S5E8 — “The Upper Room, Part 2” (Bonus Episode)
Release Date: November 3, 2025
Hosts: Marty Solomon & Brent Billings

Episode Overview

In this bonus episode, Brent and Marty discuss the dramatic season five finale of The Chosen, focusing on the events leading up to and including Jesus’ time in the garden of Gethsemane and his betrayal by Judas. The hosts analyze the show’s creative choices, the biblical and historical context, and their emotional resonance, highlighting both the textual accuracy and the imaginative elements. Notably, they dissect Thaddeus’ calling, Jesus’ garden prayers, and the powerful depiction of Judas’ betrayal, all while reflecting on the challenges of visually portraying such a pivotal scriptural narrative.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Structure & Opening Reflections (00:00–01:10)

Part Two Context: The episode is a direct continuation, diving back into the story after the first part of “The Upper Room.”
- “It’s a good thing that this is a part two, because my compulsive need for consistency would have said we are not starting in the upper room on this episode. But it’s a part two, so I’m totally good with it.” — Marty (00:36)
Cinematic Touch: Noted shift in aspect ratio, signaling we’re transitioning from confined, intimate scenes to the wider drama unfolding.

2. Thaddeus' Flashback and the Calling of the Disciples (01:05–09:39)

Thaddeus’ Backstory: The episode opens with Thaddeus reflecting on his initial encounter with Jesus at a worksite in Bethsaida.
- Jesus is depicted singing Psalm 39, sparking an unexpected and somewhat awkward invitation to follow him.
- Discussion of impermanence and legacy: “A couple of those are going to last… a lot of it, you know, succumbs to war and time and weather.” — Jesus (02:16)
Jesus’ Compelling Monologue:
- The monologue is powerfully portrayed, detailing the cost and reward of following Jesus—emphasizing not material gain, but belonging, challenge, and purpose.
- Quote Highlight:
  - “There is no pay, at least not in the earthly sense. I’m a rabbi and I’m asking you to follow me. It was nice meeting you. You’d be part of changing the world, become part of a family, not of relatives. But the blood bonds just the same…” — Jesus (04:40)
  - “The point is that you will have said yes to the world’s no. That you hoped against hope and believed against belief. That you surrendered everything and held fast to the very end. Will you follow?” — Jesus (05:28)
- Marty’s Emotional Response:
  - “It was the best description of every... just so emotionally drawn in. I loved that monologue.” (03:14)
  - “It’s season one, Mary throwing Sabbath at her house. Like, yeah, it’s that level of monologue for me.” (08:35)
Thaddeus as Everyman:
- The dialogue captures everyday reluctance, insecurity, and the unexpected possibilities of discipleship. Brent notes, “That’s us, I think, all too often.” (09:17)

3. Upper Room Transition & Disciple Dynamics (09:39–12:28)

Practicalities and Humor:
- The disciples’ banter about seating arrangements and Thaddeus’ tardiness brings a sense of realism and camaraderie.
- Lighthearted quips about taking the “longest route possible,” and speculation about the geography of Jerusalem.
Preparation for Betrayal:
- Mark’s role as an observer is highlighted as the disciples finish the meal and sing Psalm 118—Emphasis is placed on the authenticity of these ritual moments.

4. Roman & Sanhedrin Politics (13:26–17:32)

Pilate and Atticus:
- Pilate’s unease with Jesus’ growing influence, Atticus’ manipulation of local anger, and their allegiances are explored.
- Atticus claims, “I am loyal to Rome herself, and you should do the same.” (14:25)
- The hosts draw parallels to modern patriotism and the complexities of Roman authority.
Claudia’s Ominous Presence:
- Her prophetic dreams and warnings underscore her ambiguous but weighty influence: “She just has this ominous way about entering a scene and laying down the hammer and walking out.” — Marty (16:07)
Sanhedrin Discontent:
- The meeting features intense debate among Jewish leadership, accurately reflecting the legal and ritual improprieties of their actions on a festival night.

5. Betrayal Plot Unfolds (17:32–18:22)

Judas and the Temple Guard:
- Marty praises the accurate use of temple—not Roman—guards, a detail often missed in adaptations.
Judas' Motives:
- The complexities around identifying Jesus and the necessity of a formal accuser are discussed: “It’s not an identity thing as much as an accusation thing, a legal thing.” — Marty (28:27)

6. Prayers in the Olive Grove (18:22–25:54)

Emotional Intensity:
- Jesus’ anguish is depicted with nuance, with disciples misunderstanding his turmoil and wanting to “get a doctor.”
- The show creatively weaves elements from Synoptic Gospels and John, integrating “Lord’s Prayer” language and deepening the sense of struggle.
Visions and Spiritual Comfort:
- Jesus experiences visionary encounters with Abraham & Isaac (the “angel” reference in Luke), Ezekiel in the valley of dry bones, and his own father Joseph.
- Marty’s Take: The ambiguity around angels is fitting; “This is the same kind of experience I could envision having. If God wanted to encourage me in a moment where I would think of and go back to key moments of my own life and key people and mentors, I just liked it.” (20:58)
Filmic Touches:
- A fog transitions Jesus into the vision of Ezekiel’s valley, creating a visually arresting and theologically layered scene.
Memorable Shot:
- Jesus returns to find his disciples depicted as children (“What a shot. It got me every time, just weeping.” — Brent, 24:15), reinforcing his compassion and their vulnerability.

7. The Betrayal Scene (25:00–30:06)

The Approach:
- Jesus’ statement—“The Son of Man’s going to be delivered into the hand of sinners. [...] Sinners.”—is ambiguous, prompting discussion about how to interpret Jesus’ tone and intent.
- Intention behind the dialogue is noted as an open question: "He could be saying... delivered into the hands of sinners, sinners, like who isn't?"
Judas’ Signal:
- High tension as Judas hesitates, and the necessity of his betrayal is portrayed as a legal formality more than simple identification.
“Friend” Not “Traitor:”
- Brent highlights the humanity and compassion of Matthew 26’s wording, “he still calls him his friend” (27:41), contrasting the harsher versions in other Gospels.
Episode Climax:
- The scene closes powerfully on a close-up of Judas’ kiss, followed by credits set to “Flee as a Bird,” a hymn based on Psalm 11—symbolizing the disciples’ imminent flight.

8. Reflections on The Season & Episode (30:06–33:46)

Artistic Achievement:
- Both hosts commend the episode’s restraint and emotional impact, especially given the difficulty of dramatizing such a pivotal biblical event:
  - “There are so many ways that could have went sideways, went wrong, not had enough umph. Had too much umph. Been too sensationalized. I’m really impressed... it just was done so well that I just have no complaints by the time it was done.” — Marty (31:10)
- Attention is drawn to the careful selection and omission of lines, avoiding the pitfall of over-literal harmonization.

9. Lighthearted Moments: Bloopers (33:51–35:07)

Bloopers and Humor:
- Brent prompts Marty to check out the post-credits blooper reel, featuring playful moments on set (e.g., a “Jesus juke” and a sassy retort from Jesus to James).
- “You know the things that Jesus probably wanted to say in his humanity every day.” — Marty (35:03)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

On the call to discipleship:
- “The point is that you will have said yes to the world’s no. That you hoped against hope and believed against belief.” — Jesus (05:28)
On portraying Jesus’ final prayers:
- “This whole episode, this last episode of season five, there are so many ways that could have went sideways... I just have no complaints by the time it was done.” — Marty (31:10)
On the humanity of the disciples:
- “[Thaddeus] convinced himself so much that he doesn’t have anything else to offer... and that’s us, I think, all too often.” — Brent (09:17)
On the ambiguity of “sinners”:
- “He could be saying, like, emphasizing, like, sinners, like this. Frustrated. They’re in rebellion. They’re. They’re acting in sin right now. I almost heard, like, a tone of, like, questioning, like, delivered. Like, he’s quoting this idea. Delivered into the hands of sinners. Like, sinners. Like, who isn’t?” — Marty (25:00)
On the challenge of harmonizing the Gospels:
- “The synoptics, the gospels in general... they don’t make it easy to line everything up. [...] But the fact that they chose to put the line in, that they did, leaning into the humanity of everything going on here... I just really appreciate stuff like that.” — Brent (33:10)

Timestamps for Major Segments

00:00 – Opening & episode context
01:05 – Thaddeus' flashback and Jesus' monologue
09:39 – Upper room transition; disciples' interaction
13:26 – Pilate & Atticus; Roman-Sanhedrin tension
17:32 – Judas & Temple guard plan
18:22 – Gethsemane: prayer, visions, and disciples sleeping
22:59 – Valley of dry bones scene with Ezekiel
24:13 – Disciples depicted as children
25:00 – Jesus on being "delivered to sinners"
27:41 – Judas’ betrayal and the “friend” line
30:06 – Episode & season reflection
33:51 – Bloopers & final laughs

Closing Thoughts

Brent and Marty emphasize the episode’s thoughtful engagement with history, text, and creative storytelling. They praise The Chosen team for their nuanced portrayal of difficult Gospel material, especially the blending of authenticity and emotional resonance. Listeners are encouraged to tune in to the upcoming episode featuring The Chosen creator Dallas Jenkins, where further insights and behind-the-scenes questions will be explored.

Next episode: An interview with Dallas Jenkins, answering listener and host questions about the creative process and narrative decisions behind The Chosen, Season 5.

The BEMA Podcast

Episode 482: The Chosen S5E8 — “The Upper Room, Part 2” (Bonus Episode)
Release Date: November 3, 2025
Hosts: Marty Solomon & Brent Billings

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Structure & Opening Reflections (00:00–01:10)

Part Two Context: The episode is a direct continuation, diving back into the story after the first part of “The Upper Room.”
- “It’s a good thing that this is a part two, because my compulsive need for consistency would have said we are not starting in the upper room on this episode. But it’s a part two, so I’m totally good with it.” — Marty (00:36)
Cinematic Touch: Noted shift in aspect ratio, signaling we’re transitioning from confined, intimate scenes to the wider drama unfolding.

2. Thaddeus' Flashback and the Calling of the Disciples (01:05–09:39)

Thaddeus’ Backstory: The episode opens with Thaddeus reflecting on his initial encounter with Jesus at a worksite in Bethsaida.
- Jesus is depicted singing Psalm 39, sparking an unexpected and somewhat awkward invitation to follow him.
- Discussion of impermanence and legacy: “A couple of those are going to last… a lot of it, you know, succumbs to war and time and weather.” — Jesus (02:16)
Jesus’ Compelling Monologue:
- The monologue is powerfully portrayed, detailing the cost and reward of following Jesus—emphasizing not material gain, but belonging, challenge, and purpose.
- Quote Highlight:
  - “There is no pay, at least not in the earthly sense. I’m a rabbi and I’m asking you to follow me. It was nice meeting you. You’d be part of changing the world, become part of a family, not of relatives. But the blood bonds just the same…” — Jesus (04:40)
  - “The point is that you will have said yes to the world’s no. That you hoped against hope and believed against belief. That you surrendered everything and held fast to the very end. Will you follow?” — Jesus (05:28)
- Marty’s Emotional Response:
  - “It was the best description of every... just so emotionally drawn in. I loved that monologue.” (03:14)
  - “It’s season one, Mary throwing Sabbath at her house. Like, yeah, it’s that level of monologue for me.” (08:35)
Thaddeus as Everyman:
- The dialogue captures everyday reluctance, insecurity, and the unexpected possibilities of discipleship. Brent notes, “That’s us, I think, all too often.” (09:17)

3. Upper Room Transition & Disciple Dynamics (09:39–12:28)

Practicalities and Humor:
- The disciples’ banter about seating arrangements and Thaddeus’ tardiness brings a sense of realism and camaraderie.
- Lighthearted quips about taking the “longest route possible,” and speculation about the geography of Jerusalem.
Preparation for Betrayal:
- Mark’s role as an observer is highlighted as the disciples finish the meal and sing Psalm 118—Emphasis is placed on the authenticity of these ritual moments.

4. Roman & Sanhedrin Politics (13:26–17:32)

Pilate and Atticus:
- Pilate’s unease with Jesus’ growing influence, Atticus’ manipulation of local anger, and their allegiances are explored.
- Atticus claims, “I am loyal to Rome herself, and you should do the same.” (14:25)
- The hosts draw parallels to modern patriotism and the complexities of Roman authority.
Claudia’s Ominous Presence:
- Her prophetic dreams and warnings underscore her ambiguous but weighty influence: “She just has this ominous way about entering a scene and laying down the hammer and walking out.” — Marty (16:07)
Sanhedrin Discontent:
- The meeting features intense debate among Jewish leadership, accurately reflecting the legal and ritual improprieties of their actions on a festival night.

5. Betrayal Plot Unfolds (17:32–18:22)

Judas and the Temple Guard:
- Marty praises the accurate use of temple—not Roman—guards, a detail often missed in adaptations.
Judas' Motives:
- The complexities around identifying Jesus and the necessity of a formal accuser are discussed: “It’s not an identity thing as much as an accusation thing, a legal thing.” — Marty (28:27)

6. Prayers in the Olive Grove (18:22–25:54)

Emotional Intensity:
- Jesus’ anguish is depicted with nuance, with disciples misunderstanding his turmoil and wanting to “get a doctor.”
- The show creatively weaves elements from Synoptic Gospels and John, integrating “Lord’s Prayer” language and deepening the sense of struggle.
Visions and Spiritual Comfort:
- Jesus experiences visionary encounters with Abraham & Isaac (the “angel” reference in Luke), Ezekiel in the valley of dry bones, and his own father Joseph.
- Marty’s Take: The ambiguity around angels is fitting; “This is the same kind of experience I could envision having. If God wanted to encourage me in a moment where I would think of and go back to key moments of my own life and key people and mentors, I just liked it.” (20:58)
Filmic Touches:
- A fog transitions Jesus into the vision of Ezekiel’s valley, creating a visually arresting and theologically layered scene.
Memorable Shot:
- Jesus returns to find his disciples depicted as children (“What a shot. It got me every time, just weeping.” — Brent, 24:15), reinforcing his compassion and their vulnerability.

7. The Betrayal Scene (25:00–30:06)

The Approach:
- Jesus’ statement—“The Son of Man’s going to be delivered into the hand of sinners. [...] Sinners.”—is ambiguous, prompting discussion about how to interpret Jesus’ tone and intent.
- Intention behind the dialogue is noted as an open question: "He could be saying... delivered into the hands of sinners, sinners, like who isn't?"
Judas’ Signal:
- High tension as Judas hesitates, and the necessity of his betrayal is portrayed as a legal formality more than simple identification.
“Friend” Not “Traitor:”
- Brent highlights the humanity and compassion of Matthew 26’s wording, “he still calls him his friend” (27:41), contrasting the harsher versions in other Gospels.
Episode Climax:
- The scene closes powerfully on a close-up of Judas’ kiss, followed by credits set to “Flee as a Bird,” a hymn based on Psalm 11—symbolizing the disciples’ imminent flight.

8. Reflections on The Season & Episode (30:06–33:46)

Artistic Achievement:
- Both hosts commend the episode’s restraint and emotional impact, especially given the difficulty of dramatizing such a pivotal biblical event:
  - “There are so many ways that could have went sideways, went wrong, not had enough umph. Had too much umph. Been too sensationalized. I’m really impressed... it just was done so well that I just have no complaints by the time it was done.” — Marty (31:10)
- Attention is drawn to the careful selection and omission of lines, avoiding the pitfall of over-literal harmonization.

9. Lighthearted Moments: Bloopers (33:51–35:07)

Bloopers and Humor:
- Brent prompts Marty to check out the post-credits blooper reel, featuring playful moments on set (e.g., a “Jesus juke” and a sassy retort from Jesus to James).
- “You know the things that Jesus probably wanted to say in his humanity every day.” — Marty (35:03)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

On the call to discipleship:
- “The point is that you will have said yes to the world’s no. That you hoped against hope and believed against belief.” — Jesus (05:28)
On portraying Jesus’ final prayers:
- “This whole episode, this last episode of season five, there are so many ways that could have went sideways... I just have no complaints by the time it was done.” — Marty (31:10)
On the humanity of the disciples:
- “[Thaddeus] convinced himself so much that he doesn’t have anything else to offer... and that’s us, I think, all too often.” — Brent (09:17)
On the ambiguity of “sinners”:
- “He could be saying, like, emphasizing, like, sinners, like this. Frustrated. They’re in rebellion. They’re. They’re acting in sin right now. I almost heard, like, a tone of, like, questioning, like, delivered. Like, he’s quoting this idea. Delivered into the hands of sinners. Like, sinners. Like, who isn’t?” — Marty (25:00)
On the challenge of harmonizing the Gospels:
- “The synoptics, the gospels in general... they don’t make it easy to line everything up. [...] But the fact that they chose to put the line in, that they did, leaning into the humanity of everything going on here... I just really appreciate stuff like that.” — Brent (33:10)

Timestamps for Major Segments

00:00 – Opening & episode context
01:05 – Thaddeus' flashback and Jesus' monologue
09:39 – Upper room transition; disciples' interaction
13:26 – Pilate & Atticus; Roman-Sanhedrin tension
17:32 – Judas & Temple guard plan
18:22 – Gethsemane: prayer, visions, and disciples sleeping
22:59 – Valley of dry bones scene with Ezekiel
24:13 – Disciples depicted as children
25:00 – Jesus on being "delivered to sinners"
27:41 – Judas’ betrayal and the “friend” line
30:06 – Episode & season reflection
33:51 – Bloopers & final laughs

Closing Thoughts

Next episode: An interview with Dallas Jenkins, answering listener and host questions about the creative process and narrative decisions behind The Chosen, Season 5.

wavePod

482: The Chosen S5E8 — “The Upper Room, Part 2” (Bonus Episode)

Summary

The BEMA Podcast

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Structure & Opening Reflections (00:00–01:10)

2. Thaddeus' Flashback and the Calling of the Disciples (01:05–09:39)

3. Upper Room Transition & Disciple Dynamics (09:39–12:28)

4. Roman & Sanhedrin Politics (13:26–17:32)

5. Betrayal Plot Unfolds (17:32–18:22)

6. Prayers in the Olive Grove (18:22–25:54)

7. The Betrayal Scene (25:00–30:06)

8. Reflections on The Season & Episode (30:06–33:46)

9. Lighthearted Moments: Bloopers (33:51–35:07)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

Timestamps for Major Segments

Closing Thoughts

Transcript

Summary

The BEMA Podcast

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Structure & Opening Reflections (00:00–01:10)

2. Thaddeus' Flashback and the Calling of the Disciples (01:05–09:39)

3. Upper Room Transition & Disciple Dynamics (09:39–12:28)

4. Roman & Sanhedrin Politics (13:26–17:32)

5. Betrayal Plot Unfolds (17:32–18:22)

6. Prayers in the Olive Grove (18:22–25:54)

7. The Betrayal Scene (25:00–30:06)

8. Reflections on The Season & Episode (30:06–33:46)

9. Lighthearted Moments: Bloopers (33:51–35:07)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

Timestamps for Major Segments

Closing Thoughts