The Ben Shapiro Show: "Ben Shapiro on 61* and Baseball’s Place in American Life"

Original Air Date: September 1, 2025
Host: Ben Shapiro (with guest and co-host David Cohn, The Film Room)

Overview of Episode

This special crossover episode rebroadcasts "The Film Room" with David Cohn, where Ben Shapiro joins to discuss his favorite baseball films—especially 61*—and baseball’s deep roots in American culture. The conversation ranges from personal nostalgia and the politics embedded in sports films, to questions about greatness in the steroid era, and the broader meaning of baseball in American life. The episode also incorporates Shapiro’s thoughts on his new book, Lions and Scavengers, concluding with a look at cultural change and American values.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Baseball, Family, and Nostalgia

• Personal Origins:
  • Ben’s love for baseball is rooted in his relationship with his father, a die-hard White Sox fan.

    "All die-hard baseball fans start with their dad ... half my childhood is going to the park and my dad putting on the catcher’s mitt and me hurling baseballs in." (Ben Shapiro, 02:42)

• The Father-Son Dynamic:
  • Fundamental to both the sport and classic baseball films. Ben contends baseball has failed to market its emotional tradition, instead trying (and failing) to compete with faster sports.
  • The challenge of passing down fandom to the next generation is becoming harder (“Trying to get my kids into it. It’s a hard push.” – 04:17).

2. On '61' — The Ultimate Baseball Film*

• Why 61 Stands Out:*
  • Ben praises the film’s authenticity, attention to baseball detail, and emotional depth.
  • Anecdotes about the production, Billy Crystal’s direction, and the actors’ dedication to accuracy (“Thomas Jane’s actually right-handed ... they mirrored the film so it looks like he's batting lefty”—Ben Shapiro, 04:45).
• Historical Context:
  • The film documents Roger Maris’s 1961 home run chase; explores the public’s hostility toward Maris and the dynamic with Mickey Mantle.
  • Notable moment:

    “‘Come on Raj, they don’t pay you to bunt.’” (Ben Shapiro reenacting a line, 06:47)

3. Baseball, Steroids, and Legitimacy

• The Asterisk Debate:
  • Discussion centers on whether Maris deserved the asterisk for playing in a longer season, but Ben points out Ruth also benefited from an extraordinarily strong lineup.
• Steroid Era Disillusionment:
  • Shapiro dismisses Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa’s achievements as tainted (“All of those records are illegitimate ... If you were on the juice, that was adding distance”—10:50), noting the era’s damage to the sport’s romance and trust.
• Hall of Fame and Legacy:
  • Shapiro suggests a “steroid wing” in the Hall of Fame and laments the Hall’s diluted standards (“The Hall of Fame has now become the Hall of Very Good”—15:22).
• Critique of Baseball Modernity:
  • From Moneyball to high strikeout rates, Ben argues the emphasis on analytics and home runs diminishes baseball’s exciting elements like the triple.

4. Baseball in Cinema: Field of Dreams, The Natural, and Sandlot

• Distinction Between 'Baseball Movies':
  • Shapiro divides films between those centering on the sport (e.g., 61*, Sandlot) and those using baseball as a metaphor (Field of Dreams).
  • “Baseball movies have to be nostalgia-based. And baseball needs to be nostalgia-based. It’s why the Field of Dreams games sold out.” (Ben Shapiro, 24:40)
• Field of Dreams:
  • Critiqued for its left-leaning moments (“...starts yelling at everybody that they’re basically Nazis...”), but admired for its conservative, nostalgia-for-the-past core message (17:46–19:44).
  • The film’s emotional climax—the father-son reunion—is lauded as “killer” (23:04).
• The Natural:
  • Ben prefers the film’s triumphant ending over the book’s tragic one (“...the choice between tragedy and triumph is really a choice of worldview”—21:57).
• Sandlot:
  • Applauded as a conservative, nostalgia-based film, especially for James Earl Jones’s powerful cameo.

5. Assessments of Baseball Greatness: Past and Present

• Translating Past Legends to Modern MLB:
  • Ruth and Cobb would remain excellent players today due to their dominance and competitive drive (26:04–27:35).
  • Pitching speeds and athleticism have increased over time, making the lowest-level current players stronger than many historical stars.
• Top Hitters of All Time:
  • Ben’s top five includes Ted Williams, Ruth, Cobb, Mays, and Mike Trout as a strong modern contender (28:31).
  • Bonds and Pete Rose discussed but not included—Bonds for PEDs, Rose for being more about longevity than all-time talent.

6. Broader Cultural Commentary

• Baseball and American Life:
  • Baseball’s decline linked to changes in media, pace of life, and loss of daily ritual (e.g., reading box scores).
• Shapiro’s New Book—Lions and Scavengers:
  • Rooted in his experiences during a period of perceived societal breakdown, the book contrasts builders (“lions”) with those tearing down traditions (“scavengers”).
  • “There’s a lion and a scavenger in all of us. The lion is the person who gets up in the morning and seeks to do his duty … the scavenger … says all problems in my life are somebody else’s fault.” (Ben Shapiro, 35:47)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Baseball Films:

  “My favorite baseball film is 61*, which a lot of people haven’t seen… it really is about the season 1961, in which Maris hit 61 home runs in his competition with Mantle…” (Ben Shapiro, 04:45–06:05)

• On Baseball’s Place in Culture:

  “Where baseball has an advantage is its embeddedness in American culture and the American psyche ... in the nostalgia of dads and their sons playing catch.” (03:36)

• On Steroids and Nostalgia:

  “I think for a ton of people the steroid era destroyed an enormous amount of the romance of baseball.” (11:53)

• On Field of Dreams:

  “But what the film does unconsciously is something pretty conservative, which is it says that, like, the values of the past are in many ways better than the values of the present.” (17:46–19:44)

• On The Natural’s Ending:

  “I'm a fan of the idea that virtue is rewarded… and so because of that, he really should win.” (21:57)

• On the Father-Son Bond:

  “The father son catch at the end of Field of Dreams is better… the idea of being given that final opportunity to sort of come together again is incredibly moving.” (23:04)

• On Baseball's Nostalgic Power:

  “Baseball movies have to be nostalgia based. And baseball needs to be nostalgia based.” (24:40)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 01:13 | Shapiro on family, fandom, and baseball’s place in life | | 04:45 | Why 61* is the best baseball film | | 05:47–07:26 | Details on Maris, Mantle, and New York in ’61 | | 08:48–10:13 | Steroid era, home run record debates | | 12:02 | Baseball's decline post-steroid scandal | | 15:22 | Hall of Fame standards and expansion critique | | 17:46 | Field of Dreams: politics, nostalgia, and family | | 21:00–22:33 | The Natural’s ending—tragedy vs. triumph | | 23:04 | Comparing Field of Dreams and The Natural endings | | 24:22 | Discussion: What defines a 'baseball movie'? | | 25:16 | Shoeless Joe Jackson & the 1919 Black Sox | | 26:04 | How would Ruth, Cobb, etc., fare today? | | 28:31 | Top 5 hitters in MLB history | | 31:56 | Mel Gibson’s Resurrection of the Christ trailer | | 32:43 | Shapiro explains his new book, Lions and Scavengers | | 36:31 | The book’s personal origins |

Additional Memorable Moments

• Awkward Movie-Watching Stories: Ben recounts awkward scenes with his parents and early girlfriends (29:55).
• Non-baseball Tangents: Brief detours into Mel Gibson films and Shapiro’s book tour experiences.
• Calls for Comment: The hosts invite listeners to share their favorite baseball movies and top hitters.

Tone and Takeaways

Throughout, the episode balances sentimental nostalgia for baseball’s “simpler” times and conservative skepticism toward modern sports trends and changing standards. Shapiro and Cohn share a genuine warmth and camaraderie, mixing humor, deep knowledge, and sharp critique. The episode will resonate for anyone who loves baseball, great sports movies, or thoughtful cultural commentary.