Ben vs. The Left: Best Book Tour Moments

Summary

The Ben Shapiro Show

Episode: Ben vs. The Left: Best Book Tour Moments

Date: October 25, 2025
Host: Ben Shapiro (The Daily Wire)

Overview

In this episode, Ben Shapiro recaps memorable moments and heated debates from his "Lions and Scavengers" book tour, highlighting exchanges with ideological opponents on controversial social, economic, and political issues. The episode features clips and reflections from appearances on shows like The Breakfast Club, CNN, Ezra Klein’s podcast, and Real Time with Bill Maher, showcasing both points of contention and common ground between Ben and progressive thinkers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Breakfast Club: Abortion Debate

[01:15 - 03:22]

Main Theme: Morality and Legislation of Abortion

• Exchange: Ben and a female guest (Lauren) debate the moral justifications around abortion, especially in cases of rape and incest.
• Ben’s Position:
  • Life begins at conception, thus deserving protection regardless of the circumstances of conception.
  • “If you believe life begins at conception, then regardless of the source of the life, it now has an independent interest in life.” (Ben Shapiro, 02:08)
  • Proposes harsh penalties for rapists, while distinguishing that issue from abortion.
• Lauren’s Perspective:
  • Emphasizes personal autonomy: “I think that a woman should be able to choose to do what she wants to do wherever she decides to do it.” (Lauren, 02:47)
  • Advocates for early abortion if necessary, but stresses it’s ultimately the woman’s individual decision.
• Ben’s Analysis:
  • Points out that even pro-choice advocates seem to accept moral limitations on abortion timing, which indicates an implicit moral boundary.
  • “People are tacitly admitting the argument that I'm making, which is there is in fact a moral cutoff point…” (Ben Shapiro, 03:22)
• Memorable Moment: The debate highlights how definitions and morality shape abortion laws and the commonly unspoken middle ground both sides may occupy.

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2. CNN Panel: Social Security, Retirement, and Economic Realities

[05:37 - 07:10]

Main Theme: The Sustainability of Social Security and Misconceptions Around Public Benefits

• Exchange: Ben clarifies his position on retirement age and the U.S. Social Security system, responding to criticisms of prior statements.
• Ben’s Argument:
  • The Social Security system is under strain because people collect much more than they pay in.
  • “The amount that people are taking out is not the amount that is going in, which is why we are going bankrupt.” (Ben Shapiro, 06:37)
  • Mandatory government spending (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid) is the main driver of national debt, not military spending.
• Pushback: Co-panelists insist Social Security is not a government handout but benefits people have paid into.
• Ben’s Rebuttal:
  • Disputes the notion of a “lockbox,” stating, “It is not your exact money that you get out when it went in.” (Ben Shapiro, 06:54)
  • Cites his grandmother as a relatable example of someone who benefited disproportionately to contributions.
• Insightful Observation: The discussion underscores public misunderstanding about fiscal sustainability and the distinction between defined benefit and defined contribution systems.

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3. Ezra Klein Podcast: The Racial Climate Shift Post-Obama

[09:37 - 11:15]

Main Theme: Race Relations and Political Radicalization in the Obama Era

• Exchange: Ben and Ezra Klein examine how Barack Obama’s presidency shifted the national dialogue on race.
• Ezra’s Question: Challenges whether disappointments around Obama’s response to incidents like Trayvon Martin were justified as reasons for conservative radicalization.
  • “It's hard for me...to hear that's what radicalized you all.” (Ezra Klein, 09:39)
• Ben’s Explanation:
  • Obama’s presidency symbolized racial reconciliation, but post-2012, the rhetoric focused on systemic victimization, which alienated many on the right.
  • “People on the right saw that as like, well, but that's not true. You are an upper class black man who is living in the White House…then, no, that actually wouldn't happen to your son.” (Ben Shapiro, 10:12)
  • Argues that “polls absolutely 100% show that race relations were on a solid footing in 2012. And by 2013, they had plummeted. And there's only one person who's really responsible for that, and that person's name is Barack Obama.” (Ben Shapiro, 11:15)
• Memorable Moment: The conversation dives into how perception of race relations and presidential rhetoric fueled subsequent political movements, including the rise of Trump.

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4. Real Time with Bill Maher: The Foundation of Western Morality

[12:11 - 13:13]

Main Theme: Religion, Secularism, and the Roots of Morality

• Exchange: Ben moves beyond politics to discuss with Bill Maher the philosophical origins of their shared moral principles.
• Bill Maher’s Skepticism:
  • Questions the validity of biblical morality, citing inconsistencies and ethical issues.
  • “If God wrote the book, how could there be things we don't agree with?...it's full of nonsense and wickedness and things that are everything but virtuous.” (Bill Maher, 12:21)
• Ben’s Rejoinder:
  • Points out atheists in the West inherit moral frameworks from Judeo-Christian traditions, even if unconsciously.
  • “The reason Bill and I agree on morality is because we grew up in a Judeo Christian, biblically based culture.” (Ben Shapiro, 13:13)
  • “You can think that you hit that triple and you formed your own morality, but the reality is you were born morally on third base.” (Ben Shapiro, 13:07)
• Memorable Moment: The clash is friendly but pointed, and Ben tries to reveal the historical and cultural continuity underlying shared “secular” values.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Abortion & Life Definition:

  • “If you believe life begins at conception, then regardless of the source of the life, it now has an independent interest in life.” — Ben Shapiro, [02:08]
  • “I think it's crazy when you have these structures and these people who are not in that situation making the decision for the woman…” — Lauren, [02:59]

• Social Security Reality Check:

  • “The amount that people are taking out is not the amount that is going in, which is why we are going bankrupt.” — Ben Shapiro, [06:37]
  • “It's not the government just handing out a blank check.” — Lauren, [06:41]

• Race Relations Turning Point:

  • “Race relations were on a solid footing in 2012. And by 2013, they had plummeted. And there's only one person who's really responsible for that, and that person's name is Barack Obama.” — Ben Shapiro, [11:15]

• Moral Foundations:

  • “You can think that you hit that triple and you formed your own morality, but the reality is you were born morally on third base.” — Ben Shapiro, [13:07]
  • “That's always such a silly argument. Because if God wrote the book, how could there be things we don't agree with?” — Bill Maher, [12:21]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:15] — Introduction to the book tour and debate highlights
• [01:59] — Abortion debate on The Breakfast Club
• [05:37] — Social Security and retirement age discussion on CNN
• [09:37] — Ezra Klein interview on race relations in the Obama era
• [12:11] — Bill Maher exchange on morality and religion

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Tone & Style

The episode features Ben’s signature rapid-fire, logical argumentation with a direct, unapologetic tone, yet it maintains a surprising degree of civility and engagement in exchanges with ideological opponents. Moments of humor and mutual respect, particularly with Bill Maher and Charlemagne, add a relatable touch to weighty political discussions.

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Conclusion

This episode offers listeners a tour through some of Ben Shapiro’s most provocative public debates during his recent book tour, tackling hot-button topics through both confrontation and thoughtful dialogue. It puts on display the clash—and occasional convergence—of conservative and progressive perspectives on issues at the heart of American political life.

Transcript

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[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

Is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Cut the camera. They see us.

[Ben Shapiro]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Liberty Savings vary underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts. Alrighty, folks. So I've been on a book tour for my brand new bestseller, Lions and Scavengers, and we had some interesting moments with people who disagree. We're going to go through them right now. This video is sponsored by our friends at PDSTech. So one of the places that we went to was the Breakfast Club, and it was wonderful. I mean, everybody in the room was very nice. Charlemagne is a super nice person. The rest of his crew, very kind. You know, it's always interesting to walk into a place where, you know people are going to disagree because you never know just how sort of fraught it's going to be. And this wasn't that. I thought that it was a great conversation, really thorough conversation that ranged across a variety of issues. Here's a little bit of it. You believe in banning abortions, right?

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

I'm pro life, yes. Even in cases of incest and rape? Yes.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Why?

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

Because this is sort of a fundamental definitional question. If you believe life begins at conception.

[Ben Shapiro]

Then regardless of the source of the.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

Life, it now has an independent interest in life. So that is not to minimize the tremendous evil of rape or incest. I believe rapists should be executed, frankly or chemically castrated at best. But that's sort of a different question. From the independent source of life and whether, again, it gets back to definitions. And this conversation tends to be either you're on one side of that or the other. If you don't believe life begins at conception, then obviously you believe abortion is.

[Ben Shapiro]

Acceptable in a wide variety of circumstances.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

If you believe it's an independent life deserving of protection, then you believe it's an independent life deserving of protection.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Lauren, what do you think about that? I'm just.

[Ben Shapiro]

That's a woman.

[Lauren (female guest)]

I think that a woman should be able to choose to do what she wants to do wherever she decides to do it. I personally, I believe that women should be able to abort babies if they want to, if they feel like that's what they need to do.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

Do you have a time limit on.

[Ben Shapiro]

That, out of curiosity?

[Lauren (female guest)]

I mean, I think it should happen earlier on if it were me making a decision for myself. But I think it's up to the woman and what she's personally experiencing and what she personally went through. I really think it's a per person thing. That's why I think it's crazy when you, you have like these structures and these like, people who are not in that, that, that situation making the decision for the woman of what you can and can't do because it's very like per person.

[Ben Shapiro]

Okay, so one of the things that's fascinating here and I, I ask her further clarifying questions because again, I think that in order to have a solid, useful discussion, you have to be clear on the other person's position is I asked her if she had any point at which abortion would be beyond her morality. And she said that abortion should be done earlier, which of course suggests that abortion has to do with the development of the fetus. If it were just about the interests of the mom, then the answer should be whenever you want. But obviously nobody truly believes that abortion should be available whenever you want. Very, very few people really believe that, like Peter Singer from Princeton maybe. But other than that, everybody sort of has a limit. And the question is why? And that's the really interesting question because people are tacitly admitting the argument that I'm making, which is there is in fact a moral cutoff point where you believe that the child, that the human being developing in the womb has an independent interest in life. I believe the only logical starting point is conception. Other people have tried to make other arguments, but that argument itself lives in the realm of definitions. It does not live in the realm of a woman's emotional state as to what she feels in the Moment. By the end of that conversation, it should be said that Charlemagne said that his standard would be at the heartbeat, which again is very, very early on in the pregnancy and is in fact the law in a wide variety of red states. One of the places that we visited was cnn. I like doing cnn, honestly. I like doing these shows where there are oppositional voices and where I'm sort of the person who's the gad fly in the room sometimes. It's more fun than going on shows where I agree. The panel on this show was interesting because it had people who I've known previously who've been on the show before. Van Jones was on. I really like Van. Anna Kasparian was on. Obviously, she and I have had our ups and our downs and we have some pretty significant disagreements to say the very least. And one of the topics that they wanted to talk about was Social Security. And comments that I made now about a year and a half ago, probably about retirement age in the United States, which was then taken out of context to suggest that I said that people who are working back breaking jobs should basically work until they die, which of course I never said, but that's sort of the usual arrangement. And it's your job to sort of fight your way out of the straitjacket that they put you in, which is kind of fun, honestly. So here is one of the exchanges that we had about the American dream and economics.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

I mean, the life expectancy, if you make it to 65 and you're a dude, is now 83. So the real question that I was asking is when should the government pay you to retire? Which is a sort of different question than when should you retire? When you should retire is sort of a personal question and also depends on your definition of retirement. I don't think that you, you know, if your goal is to be 65 and sitting on a beach for the rest of your life doing nothing, the social science tends to say that's not very good for you. You actually should be involved in your community and get involved and still have a side job and all the rest of that. But if we really believe that we can't raise the retirement age and we're never gonna change that, we will go bankrupt. And all the talk about cutting at the margins, whatever Doge is doing, that's not gonna touch the real driver of the systemic debt in the United States. Women are living to 85 if you.

[Ben Shapiro]

Make it to 65.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

Men are living to 83 if you make to 65. That's 20 years on the public dime.

[Ben Shapiro]

When you're talking about.

[Lauren (female guest)]

Hold on. When you're talking about the government paying, you're talking about Social Security, which is people's money.

[Ben Shapiro]

Well, it is. It is.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

Well, it is not the money you.

[Lauren (female guest)]

Paid in it's system that they pay into.

[Ben Shapiro]

Well, no, you're calling paycheck stuff.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

Yes, but believe me, I pay a lot in my Social Security I don't know about.

[Ben Shapiro]

I promise you, the amount.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

The amount that people are taking out is not the amount that is going in, which is why we are going bankrupt.

[Lauren (female guest)]

Okay, but it's not the government just handing out a blank check.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

No, it's the government borrowing money to pay Social Security. Well, you pay in X dollars, and then you get multiple times X dollars when you retire. That is how the system works. It is not a lockbox.

[Ben Shapiro]

Okay, Again, the fact that I had to sort of explain this basic concept to people is pretty incredible. There's a Social Security tax, obviously that exists and has been raised dramatically over the course of time, taking more money out of the pockets of the American people. But it is not your exact money.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

That you get out when it went in.

[Ben Shapiro]

My grandmother was on Social Security for years and years and years. She lived to be 91. And my grandmother did retire at the Social Security retirement age of 65. So she was on Social Security for 26 years. And I guarantee you that the amount my grandmother got out from Social Security was significantly higher than the amount that she paid in, which is one of the big problems with these defined benefits programs, as opposed to defined contribution programs. When it comes to government spending, two thirds of American spending every single year, and this is mandatory spending, is Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. That is the gigantic systemic driver of the American national debt. And when it comes to talk about war, and the amount that we spend on war, that is maybe one quarter of what we spend on these gigantic Social Security welfare safety nets. Get some more on this in a moment. First, if you're struggling with that credit card debt, you're not by yourself. You're not alone. Many hardworking Americans find themselves overwhelmed by interest rates, fees, medical bills, persistent collection calls. It can feel like there's no way out. That's where PDS debt comes in. They've helped hundreds of thousands of people just like you negotiate lower debt amounts, stop collection calls, and start rebuilding their financial stability. If you're feeling overwhelmed by credit cards, personal loans, medical bills, you're not alone. And PDS debt is here to help you find a way forward. What sets them apart is they don't just look at the numbers on your statements. They take the time to understand your unique financial situation and create a personalized plan that's designed specifically for you. And the best part? There's no minimum credit score required, so they can work with you regardless of where your credit stands. Right now, their goal is simple. Help you save more money, pay off your debt faster, start putting cash back where it belongs in your pocket. With an A plus rating from the Better Business Bureau, thousands of five star Google reviews, and that perfect five star rating on trustpilot. There's a reason why PDS has successfully helped hundreds of thousands of people break free from debt. When you're ready to take control of your finances, they're ready to help you make it happen again. Debate Debt can destroy your life. Don't let it happen. Instead, you are 30 seconds away from being debt free. Get that free assessment. Find the best option for yourself right [e-mail] Shapiro that's pdsdeb.com Shapiro pbsdeath.com Shapiro I had the opportunity to sit down with Ezra Klein of the New York Times again. I think that Ezra's a really interesting person. I think that we had a very deep and wide ranging conversation about American politics, the recent history of American politics, about the state of the globe and Western civilization. It was great. I mean, it's like a two hour conversation. And I think these sort of in depth conversations, this is what the Internet is made for. So this was some good stuff here.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

In 2013, 2014, 2015.

[Ezra Klein]

But is that because Barack Obama should have been more positive on what happened to Trayvon Martin or what happened in a very different way to Henry Louis Gates or because it was hard for people to hear, like, yeah, if you're a black man and you see these, your interpretation is, yeah, we get hassled by the cops, often for no reason, in a way that white people don't really understand. Or my son could have been Trayvon. It's hard for me, when I look back on that and the beer summit in particular, to hear that's what radicalized you all.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

Yes. And the reason is because the implicit promise of Barack Obama was the worst conflict in the history of America, which is the racial history of the United States, which is truly horrifying, that in his person he was basically going to be the capstone of the great movement toward Martin Luther King's dream. And when instead things seemed to move in the opposite direction, which was, well, it turns out that black people in America, they're Inherently victimized by a system, by a white supremacist system that puts black people underfoot. And my son could have been Trayvon. And people on the right saw that as like, well, but that's not true. You are an upper class black man who is living in the White House. And unless your son was mistaken for a prowler going around at night in a neighborhood, then, no, that actually wouldn't happen to your son. In fact, you have two black daughters and that stuff has never happened to them. So this sort of Michael Brown and Ferguson, the idea that when the President went out and he said that people wouldn't just make this up.

[Ben Shapiro]

Right?

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

And it turns out actually that a.

[Ben Shapiro]

Lot of it was made up.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

There are so many people on the.

[Ben Shapiro]

Left who have never actually addressed these arguments, who never got out of their box enough to see the opposing point of view, that if you looked at Barack Obama and you saw a person who racially radicalized the country, and that's what the polls show. The polls absolutely 100% show that race relations were on a solid footing in 2012. And by 2013, they had plummeted. And there's only one person who's really responsible for that, and that person's name is Barack Obama. Without understanding that, you cannot understand the Trump movement. You can't understand the way that the country has moved since 2012. In that interview, which I think, again, you should read or go listen to, because it really is fascinating. I think Ezra says some intelligent things. I think we have a good conversation, and it's a conversation that needs to be had between right and left to really understand one another. I talk about the importance of the 2012 election and the shift under Barack Obama in the country from an optimistic country to a quite pessimistic country. One of the other places that we hit on the book tour was Bill Maher's show. I love doing Bill's show. It's always a lot of fun. Here's the clip.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

As a believing Jew, that is one.

[Ben Shapiro]

Of the central points of.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

Of the book of Deuteronomy, right?

[Ben Shapiro]

You're supposed to choose life so you.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

And your children shall live. Doesn't mean that you have to agree with everything in Deuteronomy or Leviticus. But that's not gonna make sense.

[Narrator/Announcer]

I know, but like. But that's always such a silly argument. Because if God wrote the book, how could there be things we don't agree with? It either gotta be perfect cause it's written by you know who, or it's just not Perfect. Written by people, which it was, obviously. And it's full of nonsense and wickedness and things that are everything but virtuous.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

So, Bill, you and I agree on morality. I'd say 87% morality. 87.5%, but not from the Bible.

[Ben Shapiro]

I have a question.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

Why?

[Narrator/Announcer]

Because it's for slavery? Because it's okay with slavery.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

Why do you and I agree on morality? Like 87.5%? I'm a religious Jew, you're an atheist.

[Ben Shapiro]

Why do we agree on those things? I'll tell you.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

I mean, I can give you my answer.

[Ben Shapiro]

Yeah, please.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

Because we probably grew up a few miles from each other in a Western society that has several thousand years of.

[Ben Shapiro]

Biblical history behind it.

[Guest/Commentator (possibly a conservative commentator or intellectual)]

And so you can think that you hit that triple and you formed your own morality, but the reality is you were born morally on third base.

[Ben Shapiro]

No, we. Okay, this was a particularly fun moment, obviously. Listen, Bill and I disagree on matters religious. We disagree on matters political. Those sorts of conversations are really fun to have and having the opportunity to do that. Thanks to Bill for doing that. But, yes, I mean, this point that I'm making right here is a point I frequently make in arguments with atheists. Because the argument I'm making is not that an atheist has to believe in the Bible in order to be moral. The point I'm making is that Western atheists did not craft their own morality out of whole clothes. And pretending that they did is essentially ignoring the reality. That's the reason Bill and I agree on morality is because we grew up in a Judeo Christian, biblically based culture. All right, folks, that is just a taste of some of the stuff that we did on this book tour. We will do more of these sorts of interesting and fraught and controversial interviews in the future, and you'll see them very soon.