Ben Shapiro (4:40)

You know, Charlie, as you point out, was very good at many things and kept getting better and better and better at all of those things, at organizing, at getting out the vote, at fundraising, at messaging, at persuading, at reading, at every. Just at everything, at understanding faith, at everything, everything. And one of the things that he had absolutely been dominating on, had become synonymous with, was open debate with your ideological opponents. Gracious, charitable, open debate anywhere with your ideological opponents.

Michael Knowles (5:17)

He.

Ben Shapiro (5:18)

A lot of people have done that over the years, but he was the man for that in this moment in our time. And one has this sinking feeling.

Michael Knowles (5:30)

If.

Ben Shapiro (5:31)

He did that and he did it so well and they killed that guy, what comes next?

Michael Knowles (5:39)

Yeah, I mean, I've had this thought myself a lot. Obviously, some of us have been doing that on campuses for a very long time. And I've been in a lot of situations that felt not particularly safe. When I spoke at Berkeley years ago, they required something like 500 police officers to ensure my safety. And I always thought it was overkill. I really did. I mean, I had been wearing bulletproof vests at these events for years, specifically because security told me that it wasn't overkill. But I always thought it was overkill. I always thought, you know, this is a great country. This is not a country where people get murdered for just speaking freely about political issues of the day. I had faith in America that I grew up in that didn't do this sort of thing, that would never tolerate this, certainly would never celebrate this sort of thing, certainly would never go on TV and talk about. The justification, the emotional justification for this sort of thing or go on TV is what we're actually seeing hosts today do and try to. Or make excuses or suggest that because Charlie had the wrong views, that somehow he had contributed to this or this sort of monstrous response. That's not the country that I grew up in. And so, Michael, you've done it, too. Every time you go to a college campus, you'll have friends and family who will say things like, well, don't you feel unsafe? And my answer was always no, I never felt unsafe.

Ben Shapiro (6:47)

Yeah.

Michael Knowles (6:47)

Even when someone said, I'm the safest guy in the building. I've got security, I've got a vest, like, all the time.

Ben Shapiro (6:51)

And even when people would. There have been a few instances where someone throws an explosive or when someone busts open a door, something like that. And even then, I guess there's this sense of, well, look, it could never really go south, couldn't it? Come on, we're just debating ideas. Come on, we're just giving a college lecture or something. I mean, it's. Why, even at this moment, I'm having trouble accepting, processing this.

Michael Knowles (7:16)

Impossible to process. It's impossible to process. That's right. Yes. And now I will say that just on a public policy basis, this is the end of all outdoor public events, like, they're done. I mean, in terms of political events, it's over. And we saw the president of the United States almost shot in the head during an outdoor public event. We saw Charlie Kirk murdered in front of all of us at an outdoor public event. That's over. And we're going to lose something with that and we're going to lose something in losing debate. We're going to like something. Something is broken in this country. Deeply, deeply broken in this country. For somebody like Charlie Kirk to just be assassinated again for the great crime of speaking what used to just be known as sort of traditional conservative values, that is just normal, just not even normal. It's a political assassination. It's not just a murder. It's a political assassination. It's the worst political assassination in half a century in this country. It really is. I mean, there have been assassination attempts on presidents, obviously. Ronald Reagan was shot. There was an attempted assassination of Donald Trump. Both of them lived. The actual full scale murder of a 31 year old. A superstar like Charlie, future president. For the, for the great crime of, of saying things on college campuses that people didn't want to hear. Something needs to, something needs to change. Something needs to change. And, and the people who lead that change cannot be people who agreed with Charlie. It needs to be the people who disagree with Charlie. Because I promise you that when the political motivation of the person who did this comes out, is that going to be somebody who agreed with Charlie. It's not going to be somebody who is warm to Charlie's message. It's going to be somebody who is of the belief that because Charlie spoke words, words are a form of violence and an erasure of identity and therefore Charlie has to be silenced. It's horrifying. Nobody should believe that in a free republic. The foundations of the republic. I don't really believe I'm exaggerating when I say this shakes the foundations of the country. Because if we cannot trust each other to have normal conversations in public about basic issues of governance and policy and values, how the hell are we supposed to have a country together? Hell, it's not possible.

Ben Shapiro (9:25)

That's right.

Michael Knowles (9:25)

I agree.

Ben Shapiro (9:26)

Ben, I'm going to leave the stream to you and I know a lot of people are going to tune in and be processing this all together. And I'm sure all of us will be praying. Good to see, pal.

Michael Knowles (9:38)

Yeah, well, we all need to be praying. We need to keep praying for Charlie, for his family and for the country most of all. I appreciate it, Michael. All right, folks, so if you're just joining us right now, the reason that we are broadcasting right now is because one of the most tragic Things in modern American history has now befallen the country. One of the greatest acts of evil in modern American history has now befallen the country. The assassination of my friend and a truly great human being, Charlie Kirk. Charlie was shot to death. A little bit earlier today. He was shot to death in Utah. He was speaking at a college campus. He was doing one of his usual sort of tete a tetes with a variety of students where he would have sort of an open setting and people would come up and they would ask him questions, and they would go at him and he'd go back at them. Then there'd be a viral clip, all in good fun. All an element of sort of the political debate that happens in the country, just as a matter of course, and has been the legacy of this country different than virtually all other countries in the history of the world. Well, Charlie was doing that when suddenly a shot rang out. Apparently the shot was fired from approximately 200 yards away from on top of a building. And the bullet struck Charlie in the neck. And by the footage, which I certainly do not recommend watching, I hope that people stop trafficking the footage, because it is. It is horrifying in every way. And Charlie should not be remembered like that. He should be remembered for what he was, which was a. A political superstar. And I'll get to my feelings for Charlie in a second and my experiences with Charlie and who Charlie was. The shot rang out from about 200 yards away. And it looks like, effectively, Charlie, he survived until he got to the hospital, but he was. It looks like he was almost instantaneously killed. It's one of the most horrifying things I have ever seen in my entire life. I've known Charlie Kirk since he was 18 years old, which means that I would have been about 28, about 10 years older than Charlie. I was working at the time at the David Horowitz Freedom center, where I was the editor in chief of a website called Truth Revolt. And Charlie showed up at the breakers, which is kind of a ritzy hotel in Palm beach, and he was fundraising. He had just started an organization that he was introducing around as Turning Point usa. Nobody ever heard of it. Nobody ever heard of him. I met Charlie. Charlie was an unending ball of energy at 18 years old. And one of the things that I've said around the company before is you cannot teach grit. It's a thing that cannot be taught. You either have it or you don't. There is no person with more grit, more gecko, more gumption, more enthusiasm and energy. Than Charlie Gerk didn't exist. It was almost exhausting when. When Charlie was at the breakers and met Charlie and he was going around introducing, just moving around the room, introducing himself to everybody, saying he wanted to start a conservative activist organization that was going to transform how young people thought about politics. I remember turning to Jeremy Boring, who was also at David Horace Freedom center at the time, and saying to Jeremy, that kid is going to be the head of the RNC one day. And we agreed on that at the time, and I'd been saying it for years. And it turns out that Charlie was significantly more than that. It turns out that Charlie ended up founding the single most important political conservative organization of our era in Turning Point usa, driving hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions of people to the polls, registering voters, putting up these enormous events that drew together tens of thousands of conservatives at one time, helping to lead the debates on the critical issues, going to college campuses again, all of this was because Charlie just never stopped moving. Just never, ever stopped moving. And I watched Charlie grow from the outside. Obviously, Charlie and I are friends, but Charlie had closer friends than I was with Charlie. He had family, obviously. But watching Charlie over the course of his career from a fairly decent vantage point, Charlie was dedicated to making the country better and to making himself better at things. I remember when Charlie first started, he wasn't an amazing speaker. By the time he finished, he was a terrific speaker. Charlie didn't start off as somebody who was fluent in debate. By the time he finished, he was terrific at debate. Charlie started off as a pretty good fundraiser. He ended as an amazing fundraiser. Charlie Kirk was a coalition builder. He was somebody who's focused on the idea that in order to win power, you actually. To effectuate change, you actually do have to build coalitions. And that means talking to wide varieties of people, many of whom disagree with one another. And that's a difficult business. It's dirty business. It means that you're talking with a bunch of people you don't agree with nearly all the time. And Charlie mastered that art. On a personal level, Charlie, I watched him grow from a very young man, I mean, 18 years old, to become a father of two, become a husband. I watched Charlie grow on his religious belief. I mean, if you watch tapes of Charlie over the course of the last year, he almost invariably talks about God, talks about the Bible, talks about his belief in Christ. And Charlie was murdered for the great crime of speaking publicly about controversial issues with people in a normal conversation, a normal debate and discussion setting. That. That. That is why he was murdered, we don't know yet. The identity of the person who murdered Charlie Kirk, who assassinated Charlie Kirk. We don't know who that person was. The President of the United States has ordered all flags across the country lowered to half staff in honor of Charlie Kirk. Again, it's just, I can't even believe these are words that are coming out of my mouth. I just, I, I cannot even believe it because Charlie was 31 years old. He was 31 years old. Absolutely. Just horrifying. And, you know, I know that on a religious level, obviously he's with God now. And for many people that, that, you know, are religious, that's a cause for rejoicing, not, not for, not for despair. For me, on behalf of the country, I don't, I don't despair on Charlie's behalf. I, I also believe that Charlie's with God, but I, I, I despair on behalf of my country. I feel horrific for his family. I just think to myself, Charlie's sitting there and he's debating politics, and the next moment the bullet is passing through his neck. And I just think, poor Charlie, my friend. Person I knew, person I knew pretty well from the time he's again, very, very young. It's just devastating in every way as possible for it to be devastating just ever. Every way it's possible for it to be devastating. The President of the United States put out a statement on truth, social lamenting and mourning the death of Charlie Kirk. He said, the great and even legendary Charlie Kirk is dead. No one understood or had the heart of the youth in the United States of America better than Charlie. He was loved and admired by all, especially me. And now he's no longer with us, Melania. And my sympathies go out to his beautiful wife Erica and family. Charlie, we love you. I don't know what this means for the country. I do not know what this means for America. Truly, when political figures who just are out to discuss and debate in public are gunned down in cold blood, I do not know what we can expect next. On a personal level, obviously, I spent an awful lot of time on college campuses doing the same sort of stuff, debating, being out there talking to people. And I've had, you know, significant security concerns before, obviously. When I was at Berkeley, for example, they required something of 500 police officers. And I always thought it was overkill. I really did. I thought, now, yeah, security team is saying you should put on a bulletproof vest. Okay, fine, I'll do it. But I think it's overkill. Do I need this many police officers now. I mean, it's overkill. People would ask me about. I'm sure Charlie had exactly the same feeling. In fact, I know Charlie had the same feeling because we'd had that conversation that you feel like, okay, well, you know, is it really that big? Okay, so somebody might take a swing or somebody might yell at you. Is it really that big a deal? This is America. In America, you don't hurt people for having different political opinions. You don't kill people for having different political opinions. This is not what America is. It is the opposite of what America is. And then gradually, it seems that in this country, we have come to the conclusion that if somebody disagrees with you strenuously enough politically, that violence is now a necessity. That if the systems don't align with what you wish they were, then murder is on the table. That if a person is murdered and you're a member of the media, that your first reaction should be to, if they had the wrong political views, imply or say openly that perhaps it was their political views that brought this on them. It is a terrible, terrible moment. And I don't know, to be honest with you, how we pull out of it, other than to just say utter intolerance for political violence of any way, shape or form. Utter intolerance of. Is just awful. I mean, I keep saying the same things over and over, but what do you say when somebody that you knew pretty well and somebody in the same line of work as you and somebody who was doing many of the things that you admired is just shot and killed? You know, the. I'm. I'm hesitant to show the footage of the shooting. So I'm not going to because I don't think. I don't think there really is a purpose to showing the actual footage. It's. It's horrifying. And again, I don't think that there is a reason for that. Apparently, there's going to be a press conference starting fairly soon here from the White House about all of this. It will obviously go to that when that happens. There is footage of Charlie interacting with the crowd at the Utah event. This is just moments before he was shot. As Clip 2, Charlie pulling shirts to the crowd. Unbelievable MAGA hat and all the rest. He sits down and a few minutes later, he was shot to death. You can see in the distance some of the buildings. Presumably one of those was used as the overlook from which he was murdered. Charlie, obviously, is a family man. The footage. I can't even watch the footage with his kids. It's just terrible. It's just the worst thing here's. But. But we should watch that footage together because this is what happens when you let the evils of the human heart overcome you. You take people like Charlie Kirk with young kids out of the world for no reason other than you don't like his politics. Here's Charlie Kirk with his daughter. On the Fox set is clip five. Apparently, Charlie was rushed to the hospital by security. We know that he was still barely alive, apparently in the car. I believe he died at the actual hospital. There was some news that had broken that he was in critical condition. There was a brief hope that he might be able to survive. But obviously, if you've watched the original tape of the shooting, I think that pretty much everybody knew, even from the original tape, that would have taken an extraordinary miracle. The miracle is that somebody like Charlie, who was a high school graduate who never went to college, who built this thing out of nothing, was able to do that in this country. That is a miracle and that's the miracle of the country. And I wonder whether that miracle is duplicable in a country where people are snuffed out at the age of 31 because people disagree with Charlie Kirk. The mainstream media, legacy media, some of them have been predictably awful. MSNBC's Matt Dowd had one of the worst comments of the day. And I think we should point this out because people should understand that if this is the attack you choose to take, you are facilitating violence. Truly, if you. If you take the tack that if you say awful things in America, then the violence simply descends upon you or deserves to descend upon you because you are so threatening. That implication creates a permission structure for violence. You're not responsible for the shooter, but you are responsible for raising the temperature. I've said this 1 million times over the course of the last couple of years. Here's Matt. Dad couldn't help himself. Couldn't help himself as Charlie's body was not yet cold. Here's what Matt Dowd had to say over in msnbc, but following up what.

Matt Dowd (21:45)

Was just said, he's been one of the most divisive, especially divisive younger figures in this, who is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech or sort of aimed at certain groups. And I always go back to hateful thoughts lead to hateful words which then lead to hateful actions. And I think that's the environment we're in, that people just. You can't stop with these sort of awful thoughts you have and then saying these awful words and not expect awful actions to take place. And that's the unfortunate environment we're in.

Michael Knowles (22:20)

What an utter, complete piece of shit. I mean, truly like to say that on the day that somebody is murdered, that's your takeaway. The New York Times obituary issuing similar critiques. In the obituary, quote, he was so vocal in his willingness to spread unsupported claims and outright lies. He said the drug hydroxychloroquine was 100% effective in treating the virus, which it is not. That Twitter temporarily barred him in early March 2020, but that move only added to his notoriety and seemed to support his claim that he was being muzzled by a liberal elite. Yes, that's, that's the takeaway. Now that obviously when, when you're remembering the life of a 31 year old who is slain for his politics, that is, that is where, well, you. I lack the words. MSNBC's Katie Turkey doing something similar. She suggested that the big worry here is that the Trump administration will use this all as a justification for some further action that they don't like.

Mark (23:12)

Because as we were just talking about a moment ago with Alan, after one of the Doge employees was allegedly attacked in Washington D.C. that's what Donald Trump used as justification to send in federal troops into Washington D.C. to get things under control. The carjacking situation, he used that. And I know it's hard to predict the future, Mark, but you can imagine the administration using this as a justification for something.

Michael Knowles (23:43)

I must admit I'm at a loss to guess as to what happens next. Unbelievable. Well, Cash Patel over the FBI apparently is announcing they have caught the shooter. We'll bring you details as soon as we know. There's also supposed to be. I was mistaken earlier. The press conference is not from the White House. That press conference is apparently going to come from local authorities. So we will have more information then. Joining me on the line is my friend Andrew Clavin. Drew, I don't even know what to ask you or what to say. I'm not sure there is anything to say. And it's our job to sort of fill the airtime, so. What?

Andrew Klavan (24:14)

Yeah, I was listening to you and so many of the things you said were things that have been going through my mind. I met Charlie also when he must have been 18, 19 years old. I felt I did not have your far sightedness. I looked at him and thought, nice guy. He's obviously very intelligent, but a little bit callow as he was then. And I remarked to you, I think not many months ago That I was really, really impressed with what he had turned himself into. That he reminded me, in fact, of you, because you were kind of callous when I met you too. And yet you have turned yourself into something far, far more important than you would have been if you had just not wanted to get better. That's what makes these people rise up, is that urge to make of, to take the gifts that God gave them and make them something else. And I have to say, and there's a little bit of. Well, there's a lot of acid in my heart right now. And I want to avoid, you know, making the kind of big angry statements that you make at moments like this. But when I was listening to Matthew Dowd, what I couldn't help but think was that unlike what he was saying, that Charlie was doing the opposite of murder. What Charlie was doing was the opposite of murder. The opposite of murder is not joining hands and singing Kumbaya. It's discussing things with people that you deeply, deeply disagree with on an intellectual, idea based level and with respect, which Charlie did all the time. I do not think. I cannot remember a hateful word ever coming out of his mouth. I remember his stalwart disagreement, his strong disagreement, his strong Christian faith and the Christian ethos that went with it. But I never remember him saying some of the things that we're all tempted to snap into in moments of confrontation. I always remember him engaging on the level of ideas. And I just think that that's the amazing difference I think that we're dealing with. And I have to tell you that right this moment, and I hope this will pass, I trust it will pass right this moment. I also, with you, have a very dark feeling about this country. You know, when we started the Daily Wire, I remember sitting around with you guys and you're saying somebody saying that this is the most divided time ever. And my saying it's really not because when I grew up, people were being assassinated right and left. But the difference is, the difference is that then the people in authority, the people in the media, did not join in, in the kind of rhetoric that makes it impossible for us to talk with one another. If everyone who disagrees with you is Hitler, I mean, we live in a place where in the New York Times, once the paper of record will call someone like Barry Weiss, a middle of the road liberal Hitler, they'll compare her to Hitler. How on earth, where on earth are the people supposed to go to let their anger cool off, to get more information and to remember who we are and who we're supposed to be. Charlie did that every time he stepped out on stage. Every time he stepped out on stage, he not only argued for his side, but he reminded us of who all of us are supposed to be as a people. And to say that that is what brings violence down on you is to say essentially what the left has been saying for so long, that America is worthy of violence, is worthy of suffering, violence and hatred.

Michael Knowles (27:34)

Drew, I just. I'm with you. I'm not sure where we go from here. I mean, the thing that keeps flashing through my mind is that we've seen over the course of the last several years, several years, an increasing justification that is being laid out by relatively mainstream people on the left for violence. When Luigi Mangione shot a UnitedHealthcare CEO because the healthcare system was bad, and suddenly there was an upsurge of sentiment in favor of Luigi Mangione, or when there was a person who was mentally ill who went and shot somebody who was working for a hedge fund in New York, there's an upsurge of sympathy for that person. When somebody tried to assassinate the president, not once, but twice, there was a significant percentage of people who sort of suggest, well, you know, Trump either brought it on himself or who are making jokes about it. All of that felt amateur hour, even compared to what we have just seen here. Not that their deaths mean any less, but Charlie's literal job was just to do First Amendment things. That's what he did for a living. What he did was raise his kids and take care of his wife and do free speech. That is what he did. He did First Amendment things like what the base of the First Amendment is to be. And as you say, it would be unjustifiable no matter what his political views. But his views happen to be particularly mainstream conservative, like, right down the line mainstream conservative. And for that, Charlie was shot to death. And I don't know if our country cannot. If the left cannot stop claiming that its opponents are enemies, like true enemies that need to be destroyed, I just don't know where we go from here that can maintain anything like a functional republic.

Andrew Klavan (29:09)

Well, I think that we have to. I mean, if we're going to have faith in anything besides God, first we have to have faith in God because he has always been providential toward this country and always led us forward. But we also have to have faith in our fellow Americans. Now that people like us have broken the. The stranglehold that the left had on communications and on the media and on history, now that we have broken that it is really time for us to make sure that as we go forward, we are saying the things that I think the majority of Americans want to hear about freedom, about decency, about morality. These are things that I don't think are fringe issues. I think that we have seen in these last months since Trump was elected. We have seen just how far to the fringe our opponents are. These are people who support, you know, child molesters and criminals and gang members, don't want us to treat them too harshly, don't even want some of them to go to jail, are leaving them out on the streets that they will manufacture an outrage over the death of a black man in an anomalous situation. But in the death of a white man in a normal, typical situation of the death of a white woman, the death of black people at the hands of other black people, this they don't want to talk about at all. And I think ultimately we have to have faith that if we speak the words, if we get the news out, if we get the facts out, as Charlie was doing every time he stood on stage, if we put it out there with the kind of respect that he showed to people, if we put it out there with the kind of reliance on reason and on. And not just on reason, but on warmth and kindness and respect for other people, ultimately we will win the day in a country that lives and dies by the voice of the people. Right this minute. I'm with you, Ben. Right this minute. It is really hard for me to imagine getting back to that place, but I do believe that there is still a great, great strain of decency in this country and a great, great power of God watching over people who want to be free, people who want to be free everywhere, not just here, but maybe especially here, because we've led the way. But I think that God is a very big fan of freedom, and I think he stands up for it when people have the courage to put it forward. This is an awful day, Ben. It's just an awful, awful day. And I think that we have to remember that there will be better days and that in those days, we'll see things clearly and hopefully see a way forward. Because right now, like I said, I'm with you. It's hard not to despair.

Michael Knowles (31:36)

I appreciate it, Drew, and hang in there. I mean, obviously, we're both praying for. For Charlie and his family and for. For the country family. And meanwhile, we're joined on the line by editor in chief of the Daily Wire, Brent Scher. He's going to give us some Updates in just a moment. Apparently, there's sort of a clash between what we are hearing from local authorities who are saying he's at large and Cash Patel saying the shooter has been caught. Brent will come on to explain what precisely is going on. Again, you know, I'm with Drew. I think that there will come a point here where I'm optimistic again about the country. I just don't feel that in this moment. I think it'd be very difficult to feel that in this mom. About where we are. But Charlie was an optimist about the country, and I don't think that he was unjustified in that optimism. I do think that the vast majority, vast, vast, vast majority of Americans look at this day for the horrifyingly horrific tragedy that it truly is and that it is a small fringe. But I think that we should recognize that small fringes can make very large differences if they are not stopped and stopped cold. And that means that the people who justify violence, the people who wink and nod at the argument that political opposition is tantamount to murder or speech, is violence and therefore should be met with violence, if that is not stopped, it's going to metastasize, because bad ideas are like cancer, and they can be seeded anywhere, and they have deadly effect. It's, again, extremely difficult to talk about all of this, obviously, and I'm sure it's very difficult for you to listen to it as well. The sort of bizarre controversy that broke out in Congress today is kind of amazing. So Speaker Johnson held a moment of silence for Charlie, and at a certain point, Representative Lauren Boebert of Colorado called for a verbal prayer. She said, I believe silent prayer gets silent results. And this somehow prompted a bunch of Democrats to actually protest, saying that school shootings go unacknowledged. And here is how it broke down. An ugly scene in the middle of a truly just unspeakably bad day. Here is the speaker of the House and how it went down in Congress. This is clip 13.

House Speaker (33:42)

The chair would ask that all members present in the chamber and those in the gallery please rise for a moment of prayer for Charlie Kirk and his family.

Michael Knowles (34:17)

They did have a moment of silence, but then controversy broke out when Representative Boebert asked for a verbal prayer as well.

House Speaker (34:33)

What purpose is a gentle lady from Colorado rise. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. The House will be in order. The House will be in order. The House will be in order.

Michael Knowles (35:12)

What absolutely senseless nonsense. Shouting no. Or protesting in a verbal prayer for a man who was just shot in the neck and was at that moment dying. I mean, just. The best you can say about that is politically idiotic. The worst you can say about it is deeply immoral. Meanwhile, the FBI Director, Kash Patel has put out on X thank you to the local and state authorities in Utah for your partnership with the FBI. He says that there is a suspect in custody. We don't know more than that at this point. Obviously, we will bring you all of the news as it emerges. It's just, just awful. Again, it's not hard to find people on the Internet who are willing to say the world's worst things. And so I would urge you, particularly in times of tragedy, to get off the Internet and go be with human beings. Don't go to Blue sky, whatever you do, and find the psychotic leftists who today are celebrating Charlie's murder. Don't wallow in that sort of stuff because it is bad for the soul and it is bad for the country. And people really need to get out of the bubble that is the online space where you can say whatever you want anonymously, without any fear of repercussion and say awful, awful things. I'm going to try not to do that today because it's not hard to find people who are anonymous to say terrible things. It's one thing to call out public figures who are on legacy news networks saying awful things, but I don't think that it deserves the attention of the public, nor should we glorify people who say awful things for the attention by giving them the attention in the first place. Brent Scher, the editor in chief of the Daily Wire, is joining us now. Brent, do we have any updates on what is going on with the suspect at this point?

Brent Scher (36:54)

You know, it's actually a really fluid situation and a bit confusing. FBI Director Kash Patel tweeted out that they have a suspected, their suspected assassin in custody. But then right now, as we speak, there's a law enforcement enforcement press conference where they said that the suspected assassin is still at large. Now, I don't really know what's going on here. It's impossible to tell. It's possible that as they walked out to that press conference, they didn't get the update that the guy is in custody. And as we're talking, maybe they've updated it, but right now we are getting a different story from the FBI than local law enforcement in Utah is telling.

Michael Knowles (37:37)

So, Brent, obviously we've seen a fair bit of consternation across the nation on the House floor. There is a bit of a tete, a Tete that we just played on the show. Overall, most of the politicians have come out and sort of suggested the obvious, which is that violence is bad. What have you been seeing?

Brent Scher (37:59)

Yeah, I mean, I would say first one I saw was Gavin Newsom, who I think it was a big moment for Charlie Kirk this year. Gavin Newsom, a front runner for 2028, went on with Charlie Kirk on his podcast. It was the first episode of Gavin Newsom's podcast and he chose to do it with Charlie Kirk. And they had a pretty open conversation about all the issues and Charlie kind of ripped him and Gavin Newsom ripped him and they went back and forth and it was a great moment for Gavin Newsom. And that's kind of what Charlie Kirk was known for, where he gave Democrats a platform, he was willing to talk to them and amazingly, always had the right answers. Like, it was just so amazing to see from Charlie Kirk when he'd be at this college events or talking to any politician. I never saw Charlie get flat footed or caught off guard by some question. People would call him out on some obscure Bible verse and Charlie Kirk knew exactly what they were getting at and would always know how to kind of shoot it right back at them. So I mean, he did that with Gavin Newsom. You'd seen some other people have spoken out in support and sending their prayers. Barack Obama has, Kamala Harris has. It's a tragic moment and I think any Democrat who doesn't recognize that is making a big political mistake.

Michael Knowles (39:21)

Stake. Well, Brent, we appreciate the time and obviously as we get some more of the, of the information, I'm sure that we will, we will learn more. Apparently Utah's Governor Spencer Cox is calling Charlie Kirk's murder a political assassination, which clearly it is. And when somebody's in the middle of giving a political event, debating things like mass shootings and trans politics and they're murdered, that's obviously a political assassination. Just to put this in historic context, as I've said before, I think this is probably the most important political assassination of the last 50 years. You'd probably have to go back all the way to the late 1960s when there was a spate of assassinations ranging from Martin Luther King Jr. To Malcolm X to RFK to come up with anything remotely similar. There was an attempted assassination, obviously the President of the United States last year. It was an attempted. It did not succeed. But we are seeing, I think it would be very difficult to argue that we're not seeing a radical increase in the amount of political violence, particularly from the left side of the aisle these days. And it would be inaccurate to say there's no violence from the right side of the aisle. There is. It would also be inaccurate to say that the amount of political violence we're seeing from the right side of the aisle is matched in degree by the amount of political assassination, attempted violence that we are seeing from the left side of the aisle. It's just. It would be false to say that.

Brent Scher (40:40)

Yeah, I mean, I think that's absolutely correct. And I mean, you even see it in the rhetoric, in the response to this and you see it in the rhetoric from the left on the response to, I would count as a leftist assassination, the assassination of a CEO in New York City, I believe it was earlier this year. That was by political far leftist extremists who are anti capitalist. And that was widely cheered on the left. You had well known authors like Taylor Lorenzo talking about how this is a good thing and you understand why it happened. And I imagine, sadly, and we're going to see a lot of that, of people like, well, Charlie Kirk talked about these issues that, you know, we really shouldn't be talking about, but that's what Charlie Kirk did. And nothing excuses this. And I. I mean, I pray that we don't hear that, but we will.

Michael Knowles (41:33)

Yes, Bren, I appreciate it and I certainly agree with you. I do want to take a moment to say what is very frequently said at Jewish funerals, but obviously belongs to the Christian tradition as well as Psalm 23. The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures. He leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul. He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies. Thou anointest my head with oil. My cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life. And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. Charlie will dwell in the house of the Lord. Charlie belongs to history now. The President of the United States has announced that all flags will be flown at half staff throughout the country. There is. There is not much to say. There's not much to say. Cassia Akiva is joining us momentarily to give us her latest news, updates and a recap on and what's been happening across the country. Cassie, thanks so Much for taking the time. What are you hearing out there?

Cassie (42:45)

So I think one of the most disturbing things I'm seeing right now on Twitter, and I don't know if this is confirmed yet, is that his wife and children were in attendance. I really hope that's not true. That's really traumatic. His children are age 1 and 3, and even if they weren't, there's videos all over the Internet. And I. You know, I'm on maternity leave right now, and I'm holding my newborn baby, and I just get a video of my friend Charlie being killed. And so I think people need to remember that Charlie had taken a lot of heat for being so out there and challenging people who are on his side, people who are not on his side. And one of my last conversations with Charlie, which was just a few weeks ago, he was telling me that the noise on the Internet was really getting to him. And, you know, people like me and you and Charlie in the position, we get a lot of hate. And the way we. We get through that is we have our friends in real life, and, you know, we realize Twitter is not real life. Well, this is a case where Twitter did become real life, and you had hateful people come in and hurt him. I mean, what Charlie said to me was he was just trying to tune out the noise, and it's just really upsetting that this happened. And it's. You know, I first met Charlie when I was a college student. He was one of the first people who I interacted with when I was getting into conservative politics. And there's so many people in my position that can say that exact same thing. So it's just, you know, it's one of our own, of the conservative movement, this happening too, and it's really quite frightening.

Michael Knowles (44:14)

Yeah. Cassie, you mentioned the fact that, you know, Charlie went into these spaces, and obviously a lot of us have spent time in these spaces. I think that that day may be coming to a close. It's gonna be very difficult for these sorts of debates to ever happen in public again. They can certainly happen in screened areas where everybody knows who everybody is. But these sort of open debates, it's gonna be very difficult to have those things happen again. You also mentioned the fact that Charlie spent an inordinate amount of time having those discussions, having those debates, and it is for that reason that he is dead today. That is his great crime. And one of the points that you make there that I think is really important. I mentioned it a little bit earlier before you came on, is the bleed over from the online world to the real world is quite real. It is a thing that happens. And so we'll say, you know, go out and touch grass, ignore what's happening online. And Charlie was attempting to do that. I think for our own mental health, we should all attempt to do that. But, you know, the reality is that fringes become real. Violent rhetoric online can turn into violence in real life. People who are threatening online, that. That becomes a real thing. When people find common cause, when people find supreme, when people find a home for their hatred online, and then they proceed to take that out into the real world, it has deadly consequences. And obviously, the murder of our friend Charlie is just a great example of that. I wish I could say something more uplifting on this day, but there's nothing up. Honestly, I can find nothing uplifting to say on this day. Literally nothing other than to just remember my friend and a person who made a huge difference to the country. But maybe, maybe there will be something uplifting to say tomorrow, but not in the moment.

Cassie (45:52)

One of the things that has really upset me in the last few months is Charlie has been one of the biggest offenders of Jewish people who's. And he's not a Jewish person, right? He has these debates, and they're quite aggressive in a lot of these videos. And as a Jewish person, I was very distressed that people were giving him a lot of crap online, like Jewish people were, for hosting various debates and all that. And I just, you know, I texted Charlie and I was like, charlie, thank you for, you know, holding these debates. And, like, just know that I appreciate you and so many people appreciate you. And he. He was like, yeah, I know I get a lot of hate for this, and I just want to feel like, you know, I have the Jewish people's back. I want them to have my back. And this is such a hard thing to do because, you know, he was challenging. He could have done the easy thing and tackled on to Israel and went through all these conspiracy theories, but he didn't. He pushed back on people on the right who are getting a lot of platforming by saying that Israel is evil in all of this, right? So that was one of the things. He went out and he stayed with his morals. And I really think Charlie. That was something that was really important to him. I mean, things that Charlie was saying in 2016, 2017, are not much different from what he's been saying recently. So I think for him being so morally consistent, especially as, you know, his star has just risen. When I knew him, he had this tiny organization with a couple hundred college students. And now he definitely became one of the most important political voices. So it's just, it's, it's really upsetting. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm freaked out. Like, my, I got my career started going to these, these tense places, going into these protests. I, I don't want to go to protests anymore. Like, this is really scary that people would come out and use violence in this manner. It's just, it's shocking.

Michael Knowles (47:31)

Well, Cassie, I really appreciate the time. Obviously, you know, we're all praying together for Charlie's family and hang in there.

Cassie (47:40)

Thanks. You too, Ben.

Michael Knowles (47:43)

Well, joining us online in just a moment is our friend Reagan, who's going to stop by and tell us what he meant to young conservatives. Sure. She'll be buying just a little bit because obviously, you know what's, what's sort of amazing having watch and watch Charlie for so long is that, you know, Charlie's in this business for a very long time and he kind of, I, I have a lot of kinship with, with Charlie career wise. I started when I was 17, he started when he was about the same age. He was one of the most accomplished people in the country politically at the age of 31. And that means an entire generation of people grew up with him. And so we'll be joined in just a moment by Reagan to tell us what it was like with Reagan, Conrad, what it was like as a young person looking up to Charlie. But what I will come back to is this. There are so many layers here. There is the layer of free speech under threat. There is the layer of a left that, that truly believes that. Opposing arguments, far left, not everybody on the left. I know I have a lot of friends on the left, but people who truly believe that opposing speech is to be met with violence. There's the layer of what do we do about a country in which public debate can be met with violence? How do we even hold those debates anymore? How can we go out in public if we're speaking publicly about these issues? And then there's just what I keep coming back to, which is Charlie Kirk as a human being, as a father, as a husband, murdered in the prime of his life at the age of 31. Charlie, he had, as you say, as I said at the beginning, decades to contribute, decades more to contribute. Ripped out of this world by a malicious piece of human debris. It's just, it's unthinkable. It's absolutely unthinkable. And now the unthinkable is reality. And so if we as a country don't figure out a way to crack down on this infectious insanity that has run roughshod over a huge percentage of our politics, then I don't know that. I truly don't know that the best of our republic is a rejection of this. The best of our republic is a rejection of what just happened today is a forcible rejection of it. It's just, it's beyond. It's unspeakable. It is beyond. It is beyond words. Now they're. They're going to be, I promise you. I, you know, again, I have a hard time going to the optimistic place on this day. There are too many people who are going to pick up Charlie's baton where it lies in his blood. There'll be so many people who pick it up and run with it. So many people who see what Charlie was fighting for, things like traditional family and faith and liberty and free markets and the Constitution, and they say, I will run with that, because Charlie can't run with that anymore. And Charlie spent his entire life building up, certainly his adult life, building up an organization of people who can pick up that baton and run with it. And it's up to everyone to do that. Now, that doesn't stop the breaking of the American heart right now. It doesn't. It doesn't stop any of the pain. It is. We can look forward to tomorrow when his body is cold in the moment, all we can do is mourn and say that whoever is responsible for this needs to pay the greatest price that it is possible for that person to pay. And those who defend that action, those who make excuses or permission structures for that action, need to be run out of public life on a rail, truly, not through violence, through the way that we do things in this country, through discourse and through debate. If you commit a crime through criminal law, the fact that we even come to this in America in 2025 is devastating beyond belief. And again, I'll just go back to. I don't like talking about my own personal feelings. You know, I'm not a feelings person, but I don't have a tough time expressing myself on a lot of things. And when it comes to my personal feelings, I sometimes do. And, and today, all I can say is that for a person, for all of us, whose job it is to produce words in the moment, there are no words to describe the horror, the pain, the soul sickness that I think so many of us are feeling today. Cabot Phillips is joining us on the line to give us an update on the communications in the FBI, local law enforcement. Cabot, what's the latest here?

Cabot Phillips (52:19)

Yeah, there's been sort of a fog of war back and forth so far today. Initially, there was an individual who was seen arrested at the university shortly after those shots were fired. The university said initially that they believe this was the shooter. That man's name was George Zinn. He was apparently known to local police beforehand and had in the past had some run ins with the law. I believe it was allegedly making terroristic threats. So they thought they had their guy. But it turns out George Zinn was not the person that they believe committed this act. So they revoked that statement saying the shooter is still at large. But then within the past hour, FBI Director Cash Patel posted online that the subject was in custody. So that led everyone to believe that the shooter, you know, had been apprehended. But then just minutes after that, there was a press conference that took place where local officials said that they did not necessarily have the alleged shooter in custody. So there was this interesting moment where some local reporters pressed one of the spokespeople there saying who's right? Is it the FBI or is it you? And the local officials there said that they had a person of interest in custody that was not George Zinn. So this is a separate individual. They did not give any other information beyond that. They did not even use the word suspect. They said person of interest. So right now, the general public, still not really sure. We've been working all of our sources on the ground there, but we're still just not sure exactly who is in custody and what the ongoing threat is from the shooter.

Michael Knowles (53:52)

So confusion continues to reign, obviously. Keep it here and we'll bring you all the updates as we continue our coverage. Appreciate it. Cabot. Well, you know folks, honestly, it's going to take a while for us to process all of this. Reagan Conrad will join us momentarily to talk about what Charlie meant to young people. The fact that we're doing obituaries for a 31 year old person is totally destructive. I mean, just decaying of the soul. And the President of the United States, of course, has spoken out about this, lamenting Charlie Kirk. So of all the members of the cabinet, that is not a shock. Charlie was a deeply important political figure, not just because of the debates, but because he built this enormous infrastructure that was designed getting Republicans elected, like President Trump, for example. Again, the latest that we are hearing from the Wall Street Journal is that a suspect is in custody, but we don't know the actual details on that. Unclear at this point, if that is true, if that is not true, we're still waiting. Apparently, one of the people who was the first to ask Charlie Kirk a question at Wednesday's event saw the shooting. He sparked a five minute conversation with Charlie about religion and they heard the gunshot as Kirk was answering a question from another man about transgender people being involved in mass shootings. And it was clear from the first shot, it was clear from the shot that Charlie was unlikely to survive given the amount of bleeding from the shot. Again, we'll continue to bring you all the updates of this. And with regard to this, it's a moment when Americans could come together and truly condemn all of this and tell their own side to stand down, particularly on the left. We, which again, has been growing increasingly violent in its approach to politics. It could be that moment. I'm hopeful for that moment. And it's, it's time for. It's time for everybody to understand that if we cannot debate like Charlie debated, if we cannot engage in conversation like Charlie engaged in conversation, then, then the conversation really will end. And if the conversation ends, then, then the country and what the country actually means in its essence is going to end as well. And in these moments, I think of Charlie's wife, I think of his kids, I think of his family. Think of all the people who work at TP USA and who deal with and hang out with and build with Charlie every single day. It's devastating for everyone. And just know that all of our hearts are with yours. All of our prayers are with you. And with Charlie, it's. Yeah. Again, you hesitate to go silent on, on when it's legitimately your job not to. But with that said, it is difficult not to in the face of the extreme horror that we're witnessing here today. Again, we'll continue to bring you the updates throughout the day on all of this. Erica Kirk, Charlie's wife, did post a Bible verse just hours before he was shot at the Utah event, according to Fox News. That'd be Psalm 46. God is our refuge and strength. The very present help in trouble. I know a lot of people today are saying things like war. And I've seen people tweeting out pictures and gifs of my friend Andrew Breitbart saying war. Well, one of the things that Andrew Breitbart and Charlie had in common, aside from their early and tragic deaths, is their overwhelming joy at the fight and at life and at what America was. And when we declare war, we should just make sure that we are declaring war on the Right people. The people who truly are willing to utilize violence in the name of their political priors. The people who are willing to excuse that violence now, those are the people that we need to aim the war at, not people who just disagree with us on pot. Those are the people that Charlie has discussions with on, on campus. Those are, those are the people that Charlie thought he could convince and was successful in convincing. It's the fact that there are people who are out there who are willing to do that, who are willing to engage in the violence, create the permission structures for the violence. That is what is that. That's what's truly unforgivable. Truly unforgivable. Awful in every possible way. Again, taking a look around the Internet at some of the legacy media, again, I'm trying to avoid the blue sky left because we know what they're going to say and there is legitimately no purpose to browsing the droogs and fools of the Internet. But the New York Times has an obituary of Charlie. Charlie Kirk, a conservative wunderkind who through his radio books, radio show books, political organizing and speaking tours, did much to shape the hard right movement that is coalesced around President Trump becoming a close allies. A close ally of his died on Wednesday in Orem, Utah, after he'd been shot while speaking at a college campus event. He was 31 years old. Mr. Kirk was perhaps the leading voice among a cohort of young conservative activists who emerged during the Trump era. He had little connection to or respect for the Republican establishment or for the ideas that traditionally undergirded the conservative movement. Again, it's just incredible how the New York Times gets this so wrong. That is not true at all. Charlie was very much in line with many of the ideas of traditional conservatism, which is why he was, you know, doing this when he was 18 years old. Instead, according to the New York Times, he showed a genius for using social media and campus organizing to build a following, which he then presented to donors and Trump adjacent politicians to gain more resources and access. So according to the New York Times obituary there, they're basically accusing Charlie of being a grifter. Welcome to the New York Times. Again, trash people doing trash things. By the end of 2024, he was considered something of a king maker. Mr. Kirk never sought a position within the administration. Instead, it became clear over the last year his ambition was for something much larger, reshaping the Republican Party and beyond that, American politics, himself, itself. Well, that part at least is true. So, you know, devastating, devastating. Reagan, Conrad, joining me on the line here. Reagan is one of the young conservatives who is shaped by Charlie Kirk Reagan. Thanks for taking the time.

Reagan Conrad (60:25)

Of course, Ben. Yeah. I mean, this is a devastating day. I mean, he was the leader of our generation in this movement completely.

Michael Knowles (60:36)

Why don't you talk, Reagan, about what that meant to you?

Reagan Conrad (60:37)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, he. He gave us. He showed us how to use our voice for good and how to be bold and actually engage in conversation, because he was the one doing it. You know, he's out on college campuses being that voice, showing us that debate is good, that that's healthy for. For society and what we need. And I think that's what's most devastating, too, is that that was his thing, you know? Yeah. He just. He taught moral truth, too, in all respects of life. And I think seeing a man who was so. So biblically based and so unabashed to hold those truths and to show that my generation, that it's cool and good and right was. I mean, yeah, obviously, I know that we're all kind of struggling with that and understanding why that a voice like this is taken from us, but he encouraged so many students to be that on their college campuses. We've seen the ripple effect from his platform, and I think that's the most profound thing is just the impact that he's had for other students to actually voice their opinions and like I said, with the moral truth and just being so biblically strong. And I think he's helped. I know he's helped thousands and thousands of people. And what I want to. I want to read something because we got a Message from Rob McCoy and it's Charlie's personal pastor, and we were cleared to share this message. So I just wanted to take a moment and read this. He said, my friend Charlie Kirk was murdered today by coward. His life will be remembered for many wonderful things. He built it all with power of the spoken word. He never used violence, but was threatened every day with violence by those who couldn't contend with logic and truth. And now they have done to my friend what evil always does. It takes away life. Charlie did not die having, however, but instead he has begun to truly live. His life was secured eternally by his Savior, Jesus Christ. This truth allowed Charlie to face every threat with courage because he didn't fear death. All evil knows is death, and they derive their power from it. Charlie lived for life and will be remembered for this. My heart is broken for his family, his wife, wife Erica, his two precious children. Evil has not prevailed and it will not win. And that was from Rob McCoy. And I think that that is just such a. Such a testament to Charlie, to his character, to what he knew to be true, and that he didn't care what that meant, what threats that meant he was going to speak the truth unabashedly. Now, we have seen that, and it's true form, and it's really profound because we do know that death doesn't get the last laugh here and that Charlie is now with Jesus Christ and gives us some level of comfort today. But I just wanted to share that message from this pastor.

Michael Knowles (63:50)

Well, Reagan, I really appreciate it. Obviously, I think we're all feeling basically the same thing at this point, and we should all take some time and grieve. It's a good thing to grieve. It's also a good thing to understand what Charlie was fighting for and to redouble our efforts in pursuit of that thing. Reagan, I appreciate the time.

Reagan Conrad (64:08)

Absolutely. Thanks, Ben.

Michael Knowles (64:11)

Well, folks, I need to take a few minutes just to be frank with you, and so I'm going to go do that. We'll have much more coverage coming up, I am sure. I'll also be here, obviously, tomorrow to discuss this in full. So make sure that you're there for that. We'll bring you updates. We'll keep you posted on developments as the police presumably find whoever committed this horrendous act of evil. And let's all say a prayer for Charlie's family tonight and remember Charlie for what he was, a truly great man and more importantly, a truly good person. We'll see you tomorrow. And stay tuned for more.