Ep. 2138 - Tulsi CONFIRMED, Trump Pushes UKRAINE DEAL

Summary

The Ben Shapiro Show: Episode 2138 - Tulsi CONFIRMED, Trump Pushes UKRAINE DEAL

Release Date: February 13, 2025

In Episode 2138 of The Ben Shapiro Show, hosted by Ben Shapiro from The Daily Wire, the discussion centers around significant geopolitical developments involving President Donald Trump’s efforts to negotiate an end to the Russia-Ukraine conflict, the confirmation of Tulsi Gabbard as the Director of National Intelligence, and the Trump administration’s crackdown on government waste, fraud, and abuse. This comprehensive summary captures the key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions presented throughout the episode.

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1. Trump’s Diplomatic Efforts to Resolve the Russia-Ukraine War

Ben Shapiro opens the episode by analyzing President Trump’s promise to facilitate an end to the Russia-Ukraine war. He critiques the Biden administration’s inconsistent strategy of providing endless aid without a clear definition of victory, leading to a prolonged stalemate.

Key Points:

• Origins of the Conflict: Shapiro explains that Russia’s initial objective to absorb Ukraine failed, transforming the war into a struggle for Ukraine to reclaim territories like Donbass and Crimea, historically pro-Russian areas.
• Biden Administration’s Strategy: He criticizes the administration for not providing the necessary military support to achieve full-scale Ukrainian victory, resulting in an unbalanced risk-reward scenario (00:00-10:00).
• Trump’s Negotiation Proposal: Shapiro highlights Trump’s initiative to negotiate directly with Vladimir Putin, aiming to end the war and reduce casualties. Trump plans to involve key figures like Secretary of State Marco Rubio and CIA Director John Ratcliffe in the peace talks (10:00-15:00).

Notable Quotes:

• Ben Shapiro: “President Trump is a strong president and he wishes to actually give off the image of a strong president, which is why he's not gonna cut off the aid.” (11:54)
• Marco Rubio: “We are. But we want it secured and the money is going to be secured.” (11:54)

2. Confirmation of Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the Senate’s confirmation of Tulsi Gabbard as the new Director of National Intelligence (DNI). Shapiro commends the GOP-controlled Senate for confirming Gabbard, despite opposition from figures like Senator Mitch McConnell.

Key Points:

• Gabbard’s Background: Shapiro describes Gabbard as a combat veteran and former Democratic congresswoman who faced scrutiny over her past contacts with Bashar Assad and Russia.
• Role of DNI: He explains the importance of the DNI in coordinating intelligence between the CIA and FBI, aiming to prevent issues like those that led to the 9/11 attacks (15:00-26:23).
• Republican Support: Shapiro praises Trump’s authority in appointing Gabbard, suggesting that party loyalty ensures effective leadership within the intelligence community.

Notable Quotes:

• Ben Shapiro: “President Trump is not a fool. He's not going to trust Vladimir Putin, who's a deeply untrustworthy, evil dictator.” (15:24)
• Ben Shapiro: “President Trump, in an Oval Office swearing in, called Gabbard, 'an American of extraordinary courage and exceptional patriotism.'” (24:00)

3. Cracking Down on Government Waste, Fraud, and Abuse

Shapiro delves into the Trump administration’s aggressive measures to eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse within the federal government. He contrasts these efforts with traditional Republican approaches, emphasizing the administration’s focus on technological reforms and systemic changes.

Key Points:

• Elon Musk’s Role: Shapiro discusses how Elon Musk has been instrumental in identifying and exposing inefficiencies within government systems, likening Musk’s approach to getting "root access" to tech systems (26:23-34:13).
• Department of Education Shutdown: The episode highlights Trump’s vow to dismantle the Department of Education, labeling it as a subsidy machine for left-wing causes and advocating for its closure to reduce government overreach (46:55-47:28).
• Public Support: Shapiro asserts that Trump’s actions resonate with public dissatisfaction regarding government inefficiency, citing Gallup polls showing majority support for cutting government waste (26:23-34:13).

Notable Quotes:

• Ben Shapiro: “Trump is just unleashing people into departments that he is the head of. Right. He's the president. They all work under him.” (29:02)
• Marco Rubio: “We are going to back Elon Musk every way we can.” (34:57)

4. Critique of Democratic Responses and Strategies

Shapiro offers a scathing critique of the Democratic Party’s responses to Trump’s initiatives, accusing them of ineffectiveness and ideological rigidity. He highlights the party’s reliance on far-left leaders like Bernie Sanders and criticizes their focus on symbolic gestures over substantive policy changes.

Key Points:

• Bernie Sanders’ Ineffectiveness: Shapiro mocks Sanders’ attempts to rally resistance against Trump and Elon Musk, questioning his relevance given his age and the improbability of his running for president again (40:52-43:15).
• Democratic Hypocrisy: He accuses Democrats of hypocrisy, particularly in their portrayal of Trump’s actions as fascist while attempting to maintain control over government narratives through symbolic acts like protest songs (41:25-43:15).
• Legislative Failures: The episode underscores the Democrats’ inability to counteract Trump’s policies effectively, highlighting their fragmented and reactive strategies (43:15-45:46).

Notable Quotes:

• Ben Shapiro: “When you talk about improper payments, they are a subset of those other three categories. But that doesn't tell us the whole picture either.” (26:23)
• Marco Rubio: “It's all gonna be unpopular with Americans.” (27:30)

5. Future of the Trump Administration and Political Landscape

In the concluding sections, Shapiro speculates on the future trajectory of Trump’s administration, emphasizing continued momentum in dismantling inefficient government structures and pushing forward conservative agendas. He anticipates further confirmations of Trump-aligned officials and ongoing legislative battles with the Democratic opposition.

Key Points:

• Upcoming Hearings: Shapiro mentions upcoming congressional hearings focused on government spending and the roles of various departments, predicting Republican victories (34:13-35:20).
• Supreme Court Battles: He anticipates that legal challenges against Trump’s policies will likely reach the Supreme Court, where he expects Trump’s actions to be upheld (35:20-46:03).
• Endorsement of Trump’s Strength: Shapiro consistently portrays Trump as a decisive and strong leader capable of effectively managing both domestic and international issues (46:03-46:59).

Notable Quotes:

• Ben Shapiro: “Trump’s actions are pretty much uncontroversial, actually, under the Constitution.” (35:20)
• Marco Rubio: “Elon Musk is acting like a co president. Trump's billionaire co president.” (44:46)

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Conclusion

Episode 2138 of The Ben Shapiro Show presents a robust defense of President Trump’s strategies in both international diplomacy and domestic administration. Shapiro criticizes the Biden administration’s handling of the Ukraine conflict, lauds Trump’s efforts to end the war through direct negotiations, and applauds the administration’s initiatives to eliminate government inefficiency and corruption. Additionally, the confirmation of Tulsi Gabbard as DNI is portrayed as a significant achievement for the Republican-controlled Senate. Throughout the episode, Shapiro maintains a critical stance against Democratic tactics, emphasizing the perceived ineffectiveness and ideological extremism of the opposition. The episode underscores the Trump administration’s commitment to conservative principles and lays out a vision for continued governmental reform and strong leadership.

Key Takeaways:

• Trump’s Negotiation Strategy: Aims to end the Russia-Ukraine war through direct talks with Putin, contrasting Biden’s ambiguous aid strategy.
• Tulsi Gabbard’s Confirmation: Marks a strategic win for the GOP in reshaping the intelligence community.
• Combatting Government Waste: Aggressive measures to dismantle inefficient government departments and expose fraud.
• Democratic Critique: Accusations of hypocrisy and ineffective resistance against Trump’s policies.
• Future Outlook: Continued legislative and executive actions to reinforce conservative governance and reduce federal overreach.

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For listeners seeking detailed political analysis with a conservative perspective, Episode 2138 offers a comprehensive look into the Trump administration’s pivotal moves and the ongoing political battles shaping the United States.

Transcript

[Ben Shapiro]

Well, President Trump promised that when he entered office, he was going to look at the Russia, Ukraine situation and try to facilitate an actual end to the war. People who've been watching this war very closely understand that Russia's original goal, which was to take Kyiv to completely ingest and then digest all of Ukraine, turn it into a functioning part of the new Russian empire, that, that failed, and that failed very early on in the war. But very quickly the war then transmuted into something else. And that was a Ukrainian attempt, backed by Europe, backed by the Biden administration, to take back portions of the country that had essentially been conquered by Russia in 2014 after the Euromaidan revolution. The attempt to take the Donbass and Crimea back from Russian forces, that was largely doomed to failure because the only way to do that would have been to arm up the Ukrainians to the extent that it might have prompted a larger Russian intervention using perhaps things like tactical nuclear weapons. That is the only way that could have been done, or to allow the Ukrainians to attack inside Russia in such a way that could have provoked a larger war. Now, it may be that those concerns over a larger war were exaggerated. However, the risk reward relationship there was out of balance. The reality was that the west had very little interest in Ukraine fighting a large scale war to take back Donbass and Crimea, areas that are predominantly by virtually all polling data, even before the fake Russian democratic takeover, those areas were very pro Russian historically. And so Russia taking over those areas, while it is devastating to the economy of Ukraine, much of the oil rich area of Ukraine is in its east in the Donbass region. Crimea, of course, is on the Black Sea. And so much of the warm water ports available to the Ukrainians were via Crimea. The reality was that barring some sort of massive war effort much larger than anything that Ukraine was actually given, those areas were not going to be retaken by Ukraine. And so this conflict had settled into a stalemate for almost three years at this point, because the original invasion took place at the end of February 2022. And for a very long time, the Biden administration had a conflicting strategy, a mutually exclusive strategy. On the one hand, the Biden administration suggested that they would continue to provide endless aid until, quote, unquote, victory was achieved. But they refused to either provide the necessary aid to achieve full scale victory or to define victory as something other than full scale victory. These were mutually exclusive tactics. If they were defining victory as Ukraine takes back Donbass and takes back Crimea, then you have to give Ukraine the weaponry necessary in order to do, in order to accomplish that, anything less than that is, is going to lead to stalemate and loss, or theoretically, you redefine victory to survival. Meaning Russia already controlled Donbass in Crimea before the 2022 invasion. And so Russia's goal had already been defeated, at which point victory could have been achieved by any sort of rational stretch of the imagination, simply by fending off further Russian territorial aggression. And by that measure, the war should have come to an end a couple of years ago because basically the battle lines in Ukraine have been fairly solidified for two years, two and a half years at this point. Henry Kissinger, the late Henry Kissinger, former Secretary of State under Richard Nixon, among other titles, he had proposed that this off ramp essentially be offered way back in May of 2022. And frankly, I thought that that was the correct approach because there was no actual end goal that was achievable. And the Biden administration was openly admitting this. They were saying, we are going to provide weaponry up until victory is achieved. How is victory defined? They said, we don't know. Okay, well, you cannot win a war if you refuse to define victory. And again, either victory is going to be the taking back of all Ukrainian territory, which would have required the Biden administration to send F16s to Ukraine, among other things, or victory had to be defined in some other way, in which case in which an off ramp should have been sought. Trump is taking a much more concerted view at reality, and so he has now opened negotiations with the Russian regime. He has put forward a proposal that he meet with Vladimir Putin directly. He revealed on Wednesday, according to the New York Post, that he and Russian President Putin had agreed to start talks immediately to end Moscow's war on Ukraine. He said, we want to stop the millions of deaths taking place in the war with Ukraine, Russia. He said that this war would not have happened if I were president, but it did happen, so it must end. No more lives should be lost. He said that he and his Russian counterpart expressed openness to visiting each other's nations, while letting slip to reporters in the Oval Office Wednesday. We expect that he'll come here and I'll go there, and we're also probably going to meet in Saudi Arabia. Trump added on Truth Social. The negotiation process will begin by calling President Zelensky of Ukraine to inform him that of the conversation, something which I will be doing right now. And then he revealed that any American delegation to the peace talks would be led by the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, CIA Director John Ratcliffe, National Security Adviser Mike Walz and Middle East Special envoy Steve Witkoff. Zelensky then confirmed in a Facebook statement that he and Donald Trump had a meaningful conversation about opportunities to achieve peace and discussed our readiness to work together at a team level and Ukraine's technological capabilities, including drones and other advanced industries. In other words, he was making an argument to Trump that the United States should provide Ukraine with enough weaponry to fend off any future Russian attack. Now, in reality, Zelenskyy is going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the deal, at least publicly. Why? Well, because let's assume you're a Ukrainian citizen and you've watched your brothers and sisters get murdered by the Russians, which is what has happened over the course of this war. You're talking about hundreds of thousands of people if you combine both sides, dead and wounded. So let's say you're a Ukrainian citizen and you've been told by Zelensky that you're going to not just win the war, you're going to push the Russians off of every inch of Ukrainian land, and now you're gonna get less than that. Zelenskyy is gonna have to take the political hit unless the United States is willing to take the political hit. Biden never was. Biden always was cowardly, pusillanimous when it came to the idea that he would take the hit for anything less than a full Ukrainian victory. He did not wanna be blamed for Ukraine not being able to push Russia off that land. So instead, he decided to let the war sort of percolate and simmer on. He was willing to allow his poll numbers to be boosted by Russian and Ukrainian debt. Why? Because he was unwilling to do the thing that actually had to be done, which was, in public. Biden would need to have negotiated a deal with Putin over Zelenskyy's head and then crammed down the deal on Zelensky. And that would have made him a bad guy in the eyes of. Of many members of the left in the United States, who for some odd reason, decided that the Ukrainian flag was going to go in their profile. Now, again, that's fine with me. You want to put the Ukrainian flag in your Twitter profile or whatever, but the reality is that if that's the only flag in your profile, it's kind of strange. And not only that, putting the Ukrainian flag in your profile seems less like objection to Russian intervention. I don't remember a Georgian flag in any of these people's profile or. Or even a Ukrainian flag back in 2014 in their profile. I just remember it in 2022. And that was largely because it was tied to the idea that Russia was a pro Trump force. There's a lot of domestic politics tied up in all of this. But if Joe Biden had been a brave and capable leader, what he would have done is he would have negotiated the off ramp that everyone saw coming. The off ramp looks something like this. Ukraine does not become a part of NATO because, again, one of the reasons that Russia says that invaded Ukraine is because it didn't want to be bordered by NATO nations, even though it already has a bunch of borders with NATO nations. Instead, there would have been effectively a mutual defense guarantee between the United States and Europe and Ukraine to prevent a further act of Russian aggression That was not exactly NATO. There wouldn't have been an entry by Ukraine into the eu, which has always been a sort of hot button issue in Ukraine. In fact, Volodymyr Zelensky, when he was first elected, was not somebody who was considered supremely pro entering the eu. Believe it or not. It's only after the Russian invasion that he seemed to turn wildly in that direction. And what the deal looks like is Ukraine is armed up to prevent a further Russian invasion. Russia gets to claim sovereignty over these areas, which, by the way, it already has in its own Duma. They've already voted to claim sovereignty over Donbass and Crimea. The international community probably half accepts it. They don't say, yeah, this is now sovereign Russian territory, but they say that we are not going to foment war over the retaking of that territory. And then everybody sort of goes weapons down for the moment. That doesn't end the conflict. It's more like the Korean War. There's an armistice line. There was never any peace agreement signed at the end of the Korean War. It just ended up that there was a North Korea and a South Korea. And that armistice line has been holding since 1953. Probably the best case scenario is something like that in this particular situation. Well, President Trump said that. And by the way, President Trump is not willing to allow Vladimir Putin to sort of slow play this, to wait for Trump to withdraw aid and then invade the rest of Ukraine. I said this all during the campaign. There was all of this talk, loose talk by both isolationists on the right and nut jobs on the left, that Trump was gonna walk into office immediately, pull all aid from Ukraine, and allow Vladimir Putin to stroll down the streets of Kyiv. I said that was not something that Trump was willing to do. Why? Because Trump doesn't want the bad headline. Trump does not want a headline in which he surrenders Ukraine to Vladimir Putin. If there's one thing that President Trump cares about on a personal level, it is not being made to look weak and feckless. And so he was always going to provide continued aid to the point where some sort of off ramp could be reached. He said that yesterday in oppressor. President Trump is a strong president and he wishes to actually give off the image of a strong president, which is why he's not gonna cut off the aid. See, here's the thing. President Trump is deeply American, and this country was founded on strength and and on freedom. Freedom from a country that forced us to buy overpriced tea and then tried to blockade us when we dumped their tea into the ocean. Which is why Britain no longer rules us. Well, it's time to throw your overpriced big wireless contract overboard as well. You don't need to pay a hundred bucks a month just to get a free phone. PureTalk, my cell phone company, says no to inflated prices. With a qualifying plan, you can choose an iPhone 14 or a Samsung Galaxy for $0. And yes, this is for premium service on America's most dependable 5G network. Get your iPhone 14 or Samsung Galaxy for $0. With a qualifying plan by going to PureTalk.com Shapiro you can make the switch in as little as 10 minutes. 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He was in the Oval yesterday talking about this doesn't mean you are not sending any more aid to Ukraine.

[Marco Rubio]

And we are. But we want it secured and the money is going to be secured.

[Ben Shapiro]

When will the US Stop sending money? When would the US Stop sending.

[Marco Rubio]

Because if we didn't do that, then Putin would say he won. We're the thing that's holding it back. And, and frankly, we'll go as long as we have to go because we're not going to let the other happen. But President Putin wants to have peace now and that's good. And he didn't want to have peace with Biden.

[Ben Shapiro]

This is a pragmatic, utilitarian approach to the situation. It has been the correct approach for several years. Joe Biden just was unwilling to do it because Trump will be seen by many people on the left, particularly as a bad guy for having sold out Ukraine. But the reality is Ukraine was never going to be able to retake this territory. This is something the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth said yesterday, said, listen, trying to go back to the pre 2014 borders, namely Donbass and Crimea, becoming an integral part of Ukraine again, that is not realistic at this time and trying to pretend that it is is foolishness that leads to death. We will only end this devastating war and establish a durable peace by coupling allied strength with a realistic assessment of the battlefield. We want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous Ukraine. But we must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's pre2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. Chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering. He is correct about this. Again, this has always been the correct position. I've been advocating for this position since a couple of months into the war. So Trump had a conversation with Zelensky and then he put out a statement, quote, he like President Putin, wants To make peace. We discussed a variety of topics having to do with the war, but mostly the meeting that is being set up on Friday in Munich, where Vice President J.D. vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio will lead the delegation. I'm hopeful that the result of that meeting will be positive. It is time to stop this ridiculous war. But where there's been massive and totally unnecessary death and destruction. God bless the people of Russia and Ukraine. And again, Trump is trying to warm relations with Russia. Given the fact that the cold relationship with Russia has not been particularly productive at this point in time, does that mean that he trusts the. Absolutely not. Trump is not a fool. He's not going to trust Vladimir Putin, who's a deeply untrustworthy, evil dictator. That's what he is. He throws people off third stories of buildings if they happen to cross his regime. But Trump understands power politics is something he innately understands in his bones. The president goes on, quote, we both reflected on the great history of our nations. He's talking about his discussion with Putin and the fact that we fought so successfully together in World War II, remembering that Russia lost tens of millions of people and we likewise lost so many. We each talked about the strengths of our respective nations and the great benefit we will someday have in working together. President Putin even used my very strong campaign motto of common sense. We both believe very strongly in it. And now, again, Trump likes to use warm words as sort of the carrot. But then the stick still exists. As he said, the aid is going to continue flowing to Ukraine, sufficient to deter the Russians from continuing this invasion. In fact, Trump actually said in the Oval Office he thinks that some of the pre2014 territory will, in fact end up in Ukrainian hands. That, presumably, is because Ukraine, basically, ignoring Joe Biden, made territorial incursions directly into Russia. And now they are looking for land swaps, Russian territory for Ukrainian territory. You see any future in which Ukraine returns to its pre 2014 borders?

[Marco Rubio]

Well, I think Pete said today that that's unlikely, right? It certainly would seem to be unlikely. They took a lot of land and they fought for that land and they lost a lot of. They lost a lot of soldiers. But it would just seem to me, and I'm not. I'm not making an opinion on it, but I've read a lot on it, and a lot of people think that that's unlikely. Some of it will come back. I think some of it will come back. Yeah. Some of that land will come back.

[Ben Shapiro]

Okay, so again, does this sound like Donald Trump is surrendering to Vladimir Putin? If so, you are reading him completely wrong. Now Hegseth is again being practical about this. He says this is not the moment for Ukraine to join NATO because that presumably would be provocative, but we can make many of the same security guarantees without actually them formally joining NATO. Here was Pete Hegseth. The United States does not believe that NATO's membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement. Instead, any security guarantee must be backed by capable European and non European troops. If these troops are deployed as peacekeepers to Ukraine at any point, they should be deployed as part of a non NATO mission and they should not be covered under Article 5. Okay, so again, one of the reasons not to cover Ukraine under Article 5 is presumably let's say that Ukraine gets into another shooting conflict over Donbass or Crimea. That would now obligate all Article 5 members of NATO to actually get directly involved in the war. But he's saying we're still going to make the security guarantees. There may even, in fact be European troops on the ground to guarantee the peace. This always was the pragmatic solution. Always, always. And Trump's position had to be caricatured by the media as some sort of surrender to Putin. But again, common sense is the watchword. It is the byword. And Trump, by the way, his successes are happening on a daily basis. Yesterday, the Senate confirmed Tulsi Gabbard as the intelligence chief, which is an amazing switch in the nature of the Directorate of National Intelligence. Remember, Tulsi Gabbard was actually put on a no fly list at one point. She was targeted by the intelligence community because of her past contacts with Bashar Assad in Syria and her supposed past contacts with the Russians. Gabbard, according to the Wall Street Journal, a combat veteran and former Democratic congresswoman from Hawaii, was confirmed by a vote of 5,248 in the GOP controlled Senate. Senator Mitch McConnell, the former GOP leader, broke with his party to side with Democrats in voting no. McConnell again, is continuing to make a sort of traditionally conservative case that anybody who is heterodox should not be confirmed. However, that is not going to cut a lot of ice because again, Trump is the one who's in charge of his administration. The truth is, most Republicans probably feel the same way that Bill Cassidy, the senator, feels, which is Trump wants Gabbard, Trump gets Gabbard. I mean, that seems to be the going methodology in the Senate. And frankly, that seems right if you're talking about many of the top level cabinet secretaries who are answerable directly to The President. I'm not sure that that is directly right about many of the people who are being nominated for, say, undersecretary positions there. The Senate is going to be able to kind of flex its muscle a little bit more in terms of a check and balance on the direction of those departments from underneath. President Trump, in an Oval Office swearing in, called Gabbard, quote, an American of extraordinary courage and exceptional patriotism. He said she would have the responsibility of overseeing urgently needed reforms in the intelligence community. Again, the DNI is sort of a paper position. It's a position that sits on top of the CIA and the FBI and coordinates the two agencies. It was originally put into law as a way of breaking down the Chinese firewall that separates intelligence from CIA and FBI. That firewall had led to 9, 11, because the CIA had information about the hijackers, and it wasn't passing it along to the FBI because they were afraid that that would have compromised the FBI's domestic terrorism investigations and prevented prosecutions. The DNI was supposed to sit above both of those agencies and help coordinate the intelligence from both. That's essentially what Gabbard will be doing. But one of the things Gabbard presumably will be doing is, is also looking into and investigating many of the malfeasances by the FBI and the CIA over the course of the last 10, 15, 20 years. McConnell, in explaining his vote, said the nation should not have to worry that the intelligence assessments the President receives are tainted by a Director of National Intelligence with a history of alarming lapses in judgment. But again, I seriously doubt that Tulsi Gabbard is going to be sitting there and just black lining, redlining and blacking out portions of reports that. That don't meet with her political priors. That doesn't seem correct. And so Gabbard has been confirmed. Meanwhile, over at Health and Human Services, Robert F. Kennedy looks like he is ready to be confirmed. The Senate voted 5347 to end debate on RFK Jr's nomination following public statements of support from some GOP senators who'd been on the fence about Trump's pick in the betting markets. It's like 99% that RFK Jr ends up being confirmed. Cash Patel will also end up being confirmed as head of the FBI. So President Trump's selections for his Cabinet. He's going to get his Cabinet again. There are some other members of the Cabinet who, frankly, I think are so far outside of what even what Trump would like to do that it is worthwhile talking about shooting them down. That would include Representative Lori Chavez Durmer, former representative of Oregon, who has been extraordinarily anti free markets, extraordinarily pro unions. Putting her at the head of the labor department would be kind of a disaster. So I could see Republicans opposing her, but and they weren't gonna, I think, waste their fire on Tulsi Gabbard or Cash Patel or on RFK Jr. And I think they are right not to do so. Now the fact is this administration is letting me sleep more comfortably at night. But it's not just, you know, the fact that Trump got elected and we now have a government worthy of its name. It's also that I have a better mattress. I used to have this old mattress, the one that I got from the mattress store, and it would sag in the middle and you're like, oh man, it's probably just as good as everything else. Wrong. Helix is better. You know that feeling when you wake up and your back is already complaining? Well, that was me more often than not. Don't get me started on how my old mattress turned into a heat trap at night. I mean, just terrible. 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The latest polling that I saw from Gallup about these broad issues shows 56% of Americans believe that a huge percentage of government spending is in fact waste and abuse. In fact, according to the Gallup poll from this November, just after the election, 55% of Americans believe the government is doing too much. Only 41% believe the government needs to do more. When it comes to the waste inherent in government, most Americans, in fact the vast majority of Americans, want government made more efficient Americans Views of the federal government 26% positive 58% negative our second from the bottom of all 25 industries tested, the only industry that is less popular than the federal government is the pharmaceutical industry. A Pew Research poll in April showed that 56% of US adults this be April 2024 agreed the government is almost always wasteful and inefficient. 58% of Americans were dissatisfied with the size and power of the federal government. And so what Trump is doing here, and it's quite smart, is he's singling out bad, wasteful, abusive projects and he is making those the tip of the spirit in a broader attack on the size and scope of the federal government. And what's amazing is the Democrats are falling right into it. They're claiming there is no waste, fraud or abuse. So, for example, yesterday, a Democratic witness named Dylan Hitler Gaudette testified before Congress suggesting that he could not see widespread abuse or fraud in the government. He's the Director of Government affairs at an NGO called the Project on Government Oversight, which again, is another one of these ridiculous left wing front groups funded by George Soros Project on Government Oversight. But they don't do any government oversight and apparently the government's doing an amazing job. According to Mr. Hedler Gaudette, Waste is different from fraud, fraud is different from abuse, and abuse is different from both. When we talk about improper payments, they are a subset of those other three categories. But that doesn't tell us the whole picture either. Sometimes improper payments are a function of bad record keeping. Sometimes they are a function of outdated information technology systems. Sometimes they come about through human error, and sometimes they come about through negligence. There are a variety of reasons why improper payments happen. It just simply is not the case that improper payments are only a function of bad people doing bad things with bad intent. Well, I mean, it's not a matter of bad people doing bad things with bad intent. Whether you intend to waste our money or whether you're just wasting our money is irrelevant to the taxpayer whose money is wasted. President Trump, for his part, again, this is gonna be a popular case with the American people. He said, of course there's lots of fraud. Have you seen the size of our federal government? Talk about widespread fraud and abuse.

[Marco Rubio]

Oh, yeah, tremendous fraud. There's tremendous fraud. And it's hard to believe that you can have that kind of fraud. You're talking about, like, are you talking about what, Wait, wait, which are you talking, you're talking about with regard to all of the investigations that are going on about this stupidity. What we're going to do is tomorrow I'm having a news conference. I'm going to read to you some of the names that hundreds of millions and even billions of dollars have been given to. And if you tell me that we should be giving money to those things, those entities, I think you'll probably have to leave as a reporter because you're not very talented. When you look at the kind of money, billions and billions of dollars being thrown away illegally. And there's no, there's no chance, I mean, I say it in front of our, our Attorney general. There's no chance that there's not kickbacks or something going on. When you give millions and millions of dollars to somebody that stands to look at something for 15 minutes and walks away with millions of dollars, that money's coming back in some form. And that's only one form of corruption.

[Ben Shapiro]

Now, what is different about what Trump is doing than what Republicans have historically done is that by unleashing Elon Musk, who's an outsider, and aiming at the technological systems that actually generate the payments by aiming at the actual machinery of government rather than sort of overall policy. And those are two separate things when it comes to the bureaucracy. There's the overall policy. Very, very difficult to shape the overall policy without touching the machinery. The machinery is the thing that keeps printing the money and sending the money, and it keeps going no matter what. And you can question the policy, but if you don't actually change the machinery underneath the hood of the car, you're just changing the paint of the car, and the machine continues to move in the same direction. The engine continues to churn. Trump, by unleashing Musk, was a systems guy, is looking into the technological systems of distribution. He's looking into the employment systems. He's actually looking under the hood of. Of the car of the federal government, and it's ugly what he is finding. Joe Lonsdale, who's an expert at this, he's the founding partner of 8 VC, which is a major venture capital firm, one of the founding partners of Palantir. He talked on CNBC about what is different that Elon is doing from historically what Republicans have done. I have mentors in the Reagan administration who came in looking for these things, and those people were not technical. And so when they went to the bureaucracy and they asked questions, there's so many ways of obscuring and blocking and deterring. And so what Elon did is he got root access and he went to the tech systems themselves. No one has done this ever. Like, no president ever has had tech people around him. And they went to the systems and they started finding things like, oh, my goodness. And these people who work for the agencies try to confront them and say, no, you can't look at the systems.

[Marco Rubio]

You can't.

[Ben Shapiro]

You're getting around all of our ability to block all this stuff. We thought you'd never actually get to see any of this. And they're freaking out because they're looking. So it's very transparent. They went to the system systems. They actually saw the payments, and the payments were going out to crazy. I mean, this is the point, and this is why everybody in Democrat land is so panicked, because nobody's actually taken a look at the systems. Before Republicans have pledged they're going to cut waste, fraud and abuse. But Trump is just unleashing people into departments that he is the head of. Right. He's the president. They all work under him. And he is saying, I want you to go and screw with the systems. If you have to break the system, break it. And then we'll fix the parts that we need to fix. But put sand in the gear, stop the machine, stop the machine dead. And that is what Elon has been doing, and it's now pervading it throughout every branch of government. Lee Zeldin, the EPA administrator who was a guest on our program just last week, he said, listen, I've been trying to identify waste, fraud and abuse with the help of Doge, and we're finding it shockingly. Roughly 20 billion of your tax dollars were parked at an outside financial institution by the Biden epa. This scheme was the first of its kind in EPA history, and it was purposefully designed to obligate all of the money in a rush job with reduced oversight. EPA needs to reassume responsibility for all of these funds. We will review every penny that has gone out the door. I will be referring this matter to the inspector general's office and will work with the Justice Department as well. Again, is this stuff gonna be unpopular with Americans? I'm hard pressed to see precisely how. Mike Lawlo, representative from New York, he was talking about usaid, which of course has had its funding dramatically slashed by Musk and by Doge, and he says, you want to talk about a waste of money? And here's an example of a waste of money by USAID. You look at some of the expenditures by USAID. For instance, I uncovered over $3 million to a rap artist in Gaza producing anti Israel, anti Semitic songs. Is that the best use of American taxpayer dollars? I would venture not. And so one of the things that we're going to do in this hearing tomorrow, obviously, is go through what actually is the role of usaid. What should they be focused on? And frankly, what have they been focused on? Again, he is right about all this. It's not gonna be hard to find examples of bad spending. And that is a great way of approaching these issues from a public relations perspective. It's a great way of approaching these issues because it puts Americans in mind of how much money is being wasted. Now, Democrats are trying to do the opposite. They're trying to find examples of things being cut that are just so devastating. That's every day in the New York Times, somebody who's been deprived of their government paycheck. And oh, how somebody who's in Thailand, who's been deprived of a medical appointment because USAID is no longer paying for it. Oh, how sad. But the truth is, in a time when Americans feel that America has been overstretched, that our economy is basically stretched beyond its capacity, that we are paying too much money for everything, there's not a lot of sympathy for the Democrat position, that we need endless largesse and waste of taxpayer money in order so that one government employee can, can get her retirement salary at a level that she wishes. That is not gonna be a popular position at the same time. And the Trump government is being very careful and meticulous actually, in how they are presenting this publicly. One of the things that they are saying is when it comes to things that are really important, government benefits, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, we're not touching those things. Now, again, that's not something that I want. I, as a fiscal conservative, would love to see a restructuring of many of these gigantic entitlement programs, which are, in fact, the systemic drivers of our debt. However, when it comes to those programs, Trump is being very clear. We're not touching those again, he's just gonna say waste, fraud and abuse. We're not gonna touch the third rails. Here was the VA Secretary, Doug Collins, saying, you know, you're hearing that veterans benefits are being cut. That's not true. There's a one that's going around in the media right now about veterans benefits being cut. I'm the Secretary of va. I'm gonna tell you right now that's not happening. They can do hypotheticals all they want. I'm telling you about reality. Reality is veterans benefits aren't getting cut. In fact, we're actually giving and improving services in our veteran benefits administration. They're actually clearing cases quicker. We're doing what we're supposed to be doing. So, and this is all very smart pr, Kristi Noem, who's the head of the Department of Homeland Security, yesterday she announced that she was clawing back payments that FEMA had given to a migrant hotel, the Roosevelt Hotel. She wrote, quote, I've clawed back the full payment. FEMA deep state activists unilaterally gave to New York City migrant hotels. FEMA was funding the Roosevelt Hotel that serves as a trend Aragua base of operations and was used to house Lake and Riley's killer. Mark my words, there will not be a single penny spent that goes against the interest and safety of the American people. And the entire government is being brought to Bear behind the idea that they're going to cut the size and scope of the government. All this talk about Musk being a fascist, Trump being a fascist. They're all Nazis. When was the last time you saw a fascist movement that was cutting the size and scope of government? Please name it. Seriously, name it. Attorney General Pam Bondi, fresh off of her confirmation. She says we will use every aspect of law to back what Elon Musk is doing.

[Marco Rubio]

I haven't seen Elon Musk tweet. He is a friend of mine. He is a great man. I think he's very frustrated with what's happening in our federal government. You know, at USAID alone, they're giving out billions of dollars, billions of dollars that should not be distributed. We're going to back him up. You know, we work our whole lives in this country, and we all pay taxes in this country. And for people to find out that $2 million is going to Guatemala for sex changes is outrageous. And we're going to back up Elon Musk every way we can. That includes lawsuits against these people who are doing that. And we will be successful.

[Ben Shapiro]

I mean, again, this is a very aggressive approach, and it's going to be very popular. Americans are going to like this. Democrats are going to cry chaos. We'll get to Democratic reaction in just a minute. But what they are saying, when they say that the judges are being overridden and all the rest of this, Americans are not in the business of listening to district court judges who say we have to keep spending wasteful dollars because they say so. This is another point that Pam Bondi was making yesterday.

[Marco Rubio]

We have so many unelected judges who are trying to control government spending, and there is a clear separation of powers. You know, they're doing it to Elon Musk, who is a great man and a good friend at Doge. What they're doing to him, to our country, is outrageous.

[Ben Shapiro]

She is right about all of that. By the way. A judge yesterday did in fact lift the ban on Trump's buyout offer to federal employees. According to the Washington Post, a judge on Wednesday lifted his pause on the federal government's deferred resignation program, prompting the Trump administration to swiftly declare victory as it closed the offer to any more workers who might still have been mulling it. That program had been halted since last Thursday, but now the judge said that the union's lawsuit could not succeed because they lacked standing to sue and because his court lacked jurisdiction. Well, good. So, I mean, I thought that it was evil for Trump to do. So, I mean, Trump didn't even, like, continue doing the thing, but. And all these things are gonna go to the Supreme Court. And what's amazing is that the left keeps taking legal positions that are pretty much unsustainable on executive power. If Trump were designing in a laboratory some methodology for legally giving the go ahead and giving the imprimatur of Supreme Court legitimacy to his actions, he's basically doing it. He's doing things that are pretty uncontroversial, actually, under the Constitution. He's being sued. District court judges are ruling against him with these nationwide temporary restraining orders. All that's gonna get elevated to the Supreme Court, and in all likelihood, Trump's actions are gonna get upheld. That is where we currently stand. In just a second, we'll get to the leftist resistance. They are searching for a methodology of resistance. Singing is one of those methodologies. I'm not even joking with you. First, the best reason to become a Daily Wire plus member. You're directly supporting the fight. Every dollar goes right back into building a real alternative to the mainstream. More shows, more movies, more investigative journalism. This is how we continue to reshape the culture. But here's another reason. If you like this show, there's more of it waiting for you. Only Daily Wire plus members get exclusive content at the end of every episode, the show, after the show, plus live chats and more. Don't just listen. Be a part of it. Download the Daily Wire plus app or go to DailyWire.com subscribe and become a member today. Meanwhile, Democrats are looking for a way to resist the ongoing Trump train. It's not going amazing. Their tip of the spear in terms of personalities is, believe it or not, Bernie Sanders, who's 100,000 years old. Bernie Sanders was a colleague of Eugene V. Debs. Bernie Sanders may, in fact, have marched with the original Karl Marx. And yet he is being trotted out as the ideological thought leader of the Democratic Party. Because always and forever, the Democrats continue to double down on stupid. Instead of moderating and moving more toward common sense, they have decided that all of the juice is with the far left. And listen, it could work out for them. You could see a world where, for some exogenous reason, the economy goes through a really rough patch and suddenly the entire country swivels and the pendulum swings the other way and suddenly got AOC as president. You could see that because, again, politics is unpredictable. But is it a smart move to put Bernie Sanders at the head of your ideological party? I don't see how it hasn't really borne tremendous fruit for them, but they continue to do it. According to Politico, Bernie Sanders, the two time presidential candidate, is barnstorming Iowa and Nebraska to rally voters against what he calls the the oligarchy. The kind of high profile offensive that typically signals a potential run for the White House. In Sanders case, he's more likely paving the way for someone to follow in his footsteps. Well, is he though? Is he? I mean, so Bernie Sanders right now is 83 years old. Could he run for president in two years at 85 mean he could? Why not? I mean, seriously, he's probably looking at Joe Biden and thinking, I'm a spring chicken next to that guy. And that guy was president. Sanders is supposedly not interested in mounting a third presidential campaign, but he's trying to figure out who would carry the torch in 2028. Ben Cohen, of Ben and Jerry's fame. The ice cream shop, the socialist ice cream shop that is not, in fact socialist. He says. I have no doubt that weighs heavily on his mind. I have no doubt that's a focus of his, as it would be with anyone who's passionate about a campaign, who's passionate about particular issues and is reaching, according to the actuarial tables, the end of their lives. Sanders is hoping to use his megaphone to invigorate a demoralized liberal base to fight back against President Trump and billionaire Elon Musk as they slash the federal government. Meanwhile, Roseanne tomorrow, a longtime friend of Sanders and former labor leader, said, quote, I think he's trying to inspire a very strong resistance to the oligarchy. And it is hilarious to me that the oligarchy is being called Elon Musk when Elon Musk is cutting the size and scope of government. How do you make the case that an oligarchy is running the country on its own behalf when they are literally cutting the amount of funding available to other people and to themselves? By the way, Elon is a contractor with the federal government. All of his contracts are put under federal scrutiny. He's gonna get more scrutiny now than he would have if he'd never involved himself in politics. For sure. By far, not close. Sanders apparently has a more immediate target in mind. He's looking to influence the budget fight ruling Congress by traveling to battleground districts as part of his upcoming tour. It'll be fascinating to see who he attempts to tap as a sort of heir apparent. There's been a lot of talk about aoc, which again, we live in a very stupid timeline, so that is quite possible. Meanwhile, Speaking of a stupid timeline, Democrats yesterday came up with their piece de resistance. And it was in fact a song. A beautiful, beautiful song sung by members of Congress. Somehow, somehow this is worse than Sexyy Red.

[Marco Rubio]

Which side are you on? Which side are you on? We'll fight against Doge. We'll fight Elon Musk. No eland scab within our walls we'll fight for from dawn to dusk oh, which side are you on? Which side are you on? Which side are you on? Which side are you on?

[Ben Shapiro]

Wow, that's beautiful. That's just beautiful. Apparently they were activists at a save the civil service rally, because there's nothing that unifies Americans like save the civil service, save the government employees. Save the people you are paying so they can do trash DEI jobs or file retirement paperwork in salt mines or something. That is a classic protest song, by the way. Which side are you on? But it was. It was adapted to be about Doge and Elon Musk. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. This is what you guys got, really? And they're trotting out all their most popular faces. They got Bernie, and then they've got Randy Weingarten, the super corrupt head of the American Federation of Teachers. They're trotting her out to say that she's going to sue everybody in sight. Because there's nothing Americans love more than career bureaucrats and union leaders who have miseducated our children, trying to sue everyone into stopping the train for which they voted.

[Marco Rubio]

The irony here is at the same exact time as Elon Musk and his coders have information across basically that affects all Americans. He refuses to disclose his interests as someone who is a government contractor who gets probably millions, if not billions of dollars in his own companies in terms of all of this. So number one is to try to stop the data breach. That's number one. And number two is to try actually get Congress to do the kind of accountability on all of this. But that's why we're going to the courts, to try to get the courts to interpret the law and stop this invasion of privacy.

[Ben Shapiro]

Invasion of privacy. The American Federation of Teachers, which wants to remove your children from you and trans them, they are very deeply concerned about the invasion of privacy of. Elon Musk might know your Social Security number while he's looking to possible cuts. Well, they do have another strategy, which is to just call Elon Musk over and over and over. That's Democratic Representative Robert Garcia, who did that yesterday. Again, Democrats are a little frustrated now. I find it ironic, of course, that Our chairwoman, Congresswoman Greene, is in charge of running this committee. Now, in the last Congress, Chairwoman Green literally showed a pic in our oversight Congressional hearing, so I thought I'd bring one as well. Now this, of course, we know, is President Elon Musk. He's also the world's richest man. He was the biggest political donor in the last election. He has billions of dollars in conflicts of interest. Wow, wow, wow. Notice what Democrats are trying to do, and it's not going to work. They just keep saying President Elon Musk over and over and over, hoping that that will somehow see discontent between Trump and Musk. That is not the way this is going. But here's MSNBC trying to do the same thing. They're so desperate to stop Musk that they're trying to basically get Trump to fire Musk out of some sort of misplaced egotism. It's not gonna happen, guys. That's not how this works. Elon Musk and his co president Donald Trump have spent the first three weeks of their presidency attempting a full assault on the separated powers of the Constitution. He seems to be acting as Trump's co commander in Chief.

[Marco Rubio]

Elon Musk is acting like a co president. Trump's, you know, billionaire co president. He's operating as a co president and he was elected by no one. Elon Musk is his co president, fielding questions alongside him in the Oval Office.

[Ben Shapiro]

It was striking to see Musk standing the attention of the room, seemingly, seemingly oriented around him. This is not gonna work. Carolyn Levitt, the White House press secretary here, she was yesterday saying, you know, you guys are being ridiculous with your. Musk has the power. He works for the president. Okay, this is somewhat like saying that my producer is the co host of the Ben Shapiro Show. I love my producers, but I'm the host and they're the producer and they work for the show. That's how that works. I mean, I understand the Democrats have never worked in the private sector, and so they don't actually understand, presumably, how this actually operates. But here we go. Does Elon Musk have power of the presidency?

[Marco Rubio]

Absolutely not. That's a ridiculous question.

[Ben Shapiro]

Ask that question. Because, you know, the Democrats have been hurling insults at Elon Musk, hurling attacks, calling him President Musk. Most recently, Jamie Raskin, the congressman took it a step further, calling for Musk's impeachment, saying that he somehow usurped the power of the presidency. What's your response?

[Marco Rubio]

It's utterly ridiculous. Elon Musk addressed this in the Oval Office yesterday. The President addressed it as well. Elon Musk is serving at the pleasure of the president.

[Ben Shapiro]

Just like everybody else on this team.

[Marco Rubio]

He takes directives directly from the President.

[Ben Shapiro]

Of the United States. Yes. Again, if this is the best you guys got, it's gonna be a long time in the wilderness for all of y'all. Meanwhile, President Trump continues to move forward. This administration is moving at the speed of light. I mean, they're moving so fast. Yesterday, President Trump vowed to shut down the Department of Education again. That has been a promise that has been made since the Reagan administration. As long as I'm alive. And Trump is actually going to do it. He's going to outsource all of the functions of the Department of Education to other departments. And if he doesn't fully shut down the Department of Education because he requires congressional approval to do it, he'll just gut it, which is. That's precisely what he should do. The Department of Education is a giant subsidy machine for. For left wing causes. That's what it is. Here is President Trump.

[Marco Rubio]

How soon do you want the Department.

[Ben Shapiro]

Of Education to be closed?

[Marco Rubio]

Oh, I'd like it to be closed immediately. Look, the Department of Education is a big con job. We're ranked so they ranked the top 40 countries in the world. We're ranked number 40th, but we're ranked number one in one department. Cost per pupil. So we spend more per pupil than any other country in the world, but we're ranked number 40. We've been between 38 and 40. The last time I looked, it was 38. And then I looked two days ago. It came out, the new list, it came out at number 40. So we're ranked 40.

[Ben Shapiro]

Okay. By the way, one of the things that Trump. It's so funny. Democrats continue to claim that Trump is some sort of idiot. I'd like some evidence of this proposition, please. Really. He goes out there, he talks to the press every single day. He has a fairly solid level of fluency with the issues about which he is speaking. He's not afraid to take the questions. He's not hiding behind his old age the same way that Joe Biden did. You guys getting run over and you deserve it. All right, Coming up, speaking of getting run over, Pam Bondi is now suing the Attorney General is now suing the State of New York over illegal immigration. If you're not a member, become a member. Use code Shapiro. Check out for two months free on all annual plans. Click that link in the description. Join us.