The Ben Shapiro Show — Ep. 2325 Title: WAR CRIME? Hegseth’s Narcoterror Missile Strike Draws Fire
Date: December 2, 2025
Host: Ben Shapiro (The Daily Wire)

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the heated controversy surrounding Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth and allegations of war crimes in a recent missile strike against Venezuelan narco traffickers. Ben Shapiro analyzes how this incident is entangled with Democratic political strategy ahead of 2028, the emerging “moderate” posture among leading Democrats, and the tense Tennessee 7th District special election. Other major themes include immigration, Republican coalition divides, the Trump administration’s controversial pardon in Honduras, and prospective economic risks from abroad.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Democrats’ Two-Pronged 2028 Strategy (01:29–06:55)

• Prong One: Undercutting Military Confidence

  • Shapiro asserts Democrats are “creating a catch-22 for the military” by warning service members of retroactive punishment for following “illegal orders,” while being purposely vague on what qualifies as illegal.
  • Quote: “If people follow their orders … some Democrat may be elected and declare that actually those orders were illegal and, and members of the military should not have obeyed them.” (03:10, Ben Shapiro)

• Prong Two: Shifting Toward a Moderate Image

  • Shapiro believes Democrats are rebranding, shying away from culture-war topics (trans, DEI, “defund the police,” radical immigration stances) in favor of a centrist, moderate tone.
  • Quote: “By all indicators … what they are actually attempting to do is play moderate, which of course is smart.” (04:44, Ben Shapiro)

2. The Hegseth Narco-Terror Missile Strike Controversy (06:56–18:57)

• Incident Recap

  • A Washington Post report alleged Hegseth ordered the killing of narco-trafficking survivors in the water after their boat was destroyed, potentially violating the Geneva Conventions.

• Legal Analysis

  • Shapiro details the U.S. obligations under the Geneva Conventions and related laws (citing Andrew McCarthy, Jack Goldsmith): it is illegal to kill combatants who are “hors de combat” (out of the fight) due to shipwreck, wounds, or other reasons.
  • Quote: “You can’t take somebody as a POW and just shoot them. Or if you wound somebody on the battlefield…” (06:30, Ben Shapiro)

• What Actually Happened?

  • Trump and Hegseth deny any “second strike” order explicitly targeting wounded survivors.
  • Quote: “I wouldn’t have wanted that. Not a second strike… Pete said that didn’t happen.” (10:53, President Trump)

• White House & DOD Position

  • White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt insists Admiral Bradley acted legally and within orders—to destroy the boat and remove the threat, but not to execute wounded survivors.
  • Quote: “Admiral Bradley worked well within his authority and the law … to ensure the boat was destroyed and the threat … eliminated.” (11:47, Caroline Levitt)

• Media Misinformation

  • The New York Times suggests Hegseth’s order was to kill the traffickers on the boat, but not to give a blanket “kill everyone” directive. If further strikes occurred, they weren’t in response to any order to kill survivors.
  • Quote: “It sounds like Hegseth said kill the people on the boat … if there was a second strike, he did not come back in and say kill those people.” (13:31, Shapiro)

3. Democratic Positioning & Mark Kelly’s Presidential Hopes (20:50–23:47)

• Senator Mark Kelly’s Criticism

  • Frames Hegseth as unqualified and the mission as a risk to U.S. military personnel and U.S. moral standing.
  • Quote: “This guy is so unqualified for the job … he runs around talking about lethality and warrior ethos and killing people … That’s not the message that needs to come from the Secretary of Defense.” (20:50, Mark Kelly)
  • On laws of war: “Everybody knows that. You know, that is against the Geneva Conventions. That’s against the laws of war, which we should always be abiding by. We are Not Russia. … We have to hold our people to a higher standard.” (22:05, Kelly)

• Shapiro’s Take

  • Sees the incident as a calculated move by Democrats to shore up “moderate” bonafides through military veterans like Kelly, painting the Trump admin as lawless.

• Hakeem Jeffries’ Outrage

  • Quote: “Now we have real evidence that extrajudicial killings are taking place. That’s the stain on America’s leadership in the free world …” (23:01, Jeffries)

4. Tennessee’s Special Election — “A Red Seat in Jeopardy” (23:48–34:34)

• District Overview

  • Historically solid GOP, now facing a tighter race than expected between Republican Matt Van Epps and Democrat Afton Bain (branded as the “AOC of Tennessee”).
  • Democrats are investing heavily, seeing an opportunity to flip or narrow the margin.

• Afton Bain’s Fence-Sitting

  • Pressed on police funding, Bain refuses to give a direct answer, reiterating community engagement language.
  • Quote: “I think it depends on what the community wants … to ensure that there is investment … in community safety, community protection, mental health services.” (26:20, Afton Bain)

• Interview with Matt Van Epps

  • Describes himself as “America first conservative,” highlights military service, and attacks Bain as “a crazy far left radical.”
  • Quote: “The distinction here between the two of us cannot be more clear. I’m … a combat veteran … you contrast that with my opponent who is a socialist… She wants to defund the police. She wants to abolish prisons.” (30:28, Matt Van Epps)

• National Implications

  • Shapiro: If Republicans lose such a safe district, it could signal massive GOP losses in 2026.
  • Quote: “If Republicans lose that district, it would be a major upset … could lose above average numbers, possibly anywhere from 20 to 40 seats …” (27:39, Shapiro)

5. Pardoning Ex-Honduran President & Critique of Pardon Power (34:35–39:26)

• Trump’s Pardon of Juan Orlando Hernández

  • Highlights Hernández’s deep entanglement with drug cartels (El Chapo, bribes, direct trafficking).
  • Shapiro calls the decision inexplicable and reflects on historical pardon power abuses.

• White House Defense

  • Levitt claims the pardon was due to political persecution.
  • Quote: “This was a clear Biden over-prosecution. He was the president of this country … they charged him because he was president of Honduras.” (38:56, Caroline Levitt)

6. Minnesota Somali Fraud Scandal & National Guard Shooting (39:27–44:01)

• Minnesota Fraud

  • Shapiro reports on a major investigation into Governor Tim Walz over $1 billion pandemic food aid fraud, with some funds sent to al-Shabaab.

• National Guard Attack

  • After an Afghan refugee killed one and wounded another National Guard member, Trump’s White House demands mass deportation and stricter vetting.
  • Quote: “America cannot allow millions upon millions of unvetted illegal aliens to be rewarded with amnesty after they broke our nation’s laws to come here. They must go back to their home countries.” (42:03, Levitt)

7. Immigration, GOP Coalition Tensions, and 2028 (44:02–53:59)

• Immigration as GOP Glue

  • Manhattan Institute survey reveals immigration, especially illegal, is the key issue uniting core and “new entrant” Republicans, despite other splits on taxes and some social issues.
  • Quote: “On illegal migration, the current GOP coalition is totally unified. Only 3% say illegal immigrants should not be deported at all.” (46:12, Shapiro)

• Coalition Gaps

  • Newer GOP voters are more progressive on taxes and legal immigration; core members remain staunchly traditionalist, raising long-term party strategy questions.

• Leadership & Identity Crisis

  • Shapiro posits that with Trump-era “glue issues” like immigration and trans rights increasingly dealt with, post-Trump GOP will face existential decisions on policy orientation.

8. Economic Wariness & Global Markets (54:00–end)

• Japan’s Interest Rate Moves
  • Discussion of how rising Japanese bond yields threaten U.S. economic stability, with the potential to pull global capital away from American markets.
  • Quote: “For the last year, it feels as though the economy is sort of, you know, on a razor’s edge and we’re not sure exactly which direction it is moving…” (54:25, Shapiro)

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Ben Shapiro on Military Catch-22:
  “If people follow their orders … some Democrat may be elected and declare that actually those orders were illegal and, and members of the military should not have obeyed them.” (03:10)

• President Trump Denies Second Strike Order:
  “I wouldn’t have wanted that. Not a second strike… Pete said that didn’t happen.” (10:53)

• Sen. Mark Kelly on Rules of War:
  “You know, that is against the Geneva Conventions. That’s against the laws of war, which we should always be abiding by. We are Not Russia … We have to hold our people to a higher standard.” (22:05)

• Matt Van Epps on His Candidacy:
  “I’m a Christian, a husband, a father, an America first conservative and a combat veteran… contrast that with my opponent who is a socialist… She wants to defund the police. She wants to abolish prisons.” (30:28)

• Ben Shapiro on GOP’s Internal Divide:
  “Immigration is the thing that is sort of binding everybody together. Now, the problem for the Trump administration … is that Trump successfully shut the border… Republicans are going to have to define what it is they stand for going forward if they hope to win in 2028 or even in 2026.” (46:12 onwards)

Segment Timestamps

| Time | Segment/Topic | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 01:29 | Democrats’ 2028 Strategy: Undermining Military & Moderation | | 06:56 | Hegseth War Crime Allegations — Incident, Law, & Responses | | 10:44 | Trump Addresses Allegations | | 11:47 | Caroline Levitt, White House — Official Stance | | 13:31 | Shapiro Dissects Reporting vs. Facts | | 20:50 | Sen. Mark Kelly’s Statements — Laws of War & Moderation Focus| | 23:01 | Hakeem Jeffries: Political Exploitation Allegations | | 23:48 | Tennessee 7: Red Seat in Jeopardy — Dynamics & Interviews | | 30:20 | Matt Van Epps Interview: Credentials, Stakes | | 34:34 | Trump’s Honduras Pardon — Shapiro’s Critique | | 39:27 | MN Governor Walz/Fraud Probe, National Guard Attack | | 42:03 | Caroline Levitt on Mass Deportation Policy | | 44:02 | Immigration, GOP Factions, and 2028 | | 54:00 | Global Economic Concerns & Market Risks |

Conclusion

Ben Shapiro’s analysis threads together the war crime controversy, Democratic maneuvering, the optics and realities of military conduct, and party dynamics on both left and right. He underscores how the evolving narrative around Hegseth plays into Democratic efforts at recentering, and warns Republicans about internal coalition fractures once the party’s “glue issues” recede. The show closes with a wary look at global economic shifts, tying local politics to international tremors.

Summary prepared for listeners who want the key news, arguments, and moments without wading through the ads and tangents.