The Ben Shapiro Show

Episode 2330: "What Do We Do About CHINA?"
Date: December 9, 2025
Host: Ben Shapiro (The Daily Wire)

Overview

In this episode, Ben Shapiro delivers an in-depth analysis of the growing threat posed by China to the United States and the broader global order. He questions both left-wing denial and right-wing isolationism regarding China, outlines the flaws in current U.S. foreign and economic policy, critiques the new White House National Security Strategy, and makes a strong case for strategic alliances, economic robustness, and technological protectionism. Shapiro also discusses how trade, tariffs, demographic challenges, and technological competition (especially AI and semiconductors) play into the China conundrum.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Framing the Threat: China and Its Alliances

Timestamp: 01:00 – 05:00

• Existential Threats: Shapiro frames China as the sponsor state of an "anti-American bloc," joined by Russia and Iran. He argues the threat is less about imminent military attack and more about a gradual American recession from global leadership.
• Global Interconnectedness: He pushes back against the notion (rising on the right) that America should withdraw from the world or become economically self-reliant (autarkic), insisting that, "the world is interconnected," and U.S. prosperity flows from an outward economic and military posture (04:30).
• Quote:

  “There is this bizarre notion... if the United States were to be essentially autarkic... suddenly things would get better... The problem, of course, is that the world is interconnected.”
  — Ben Shapiro (04:05)

2. Assessing China’s Economic Strategy

Timestamp: 05:00 – 13:30

• Exports and Growth: Citing the Wall Street Journal and Goldman Sachs, Shapiro notes that while U.S. imports have increased, China’s imports are down, and its export volumes keep rising.
• Beggar-Thy-Neighbor Model:

  “Beijing is pursuing a beggar thy neighbor growth model at everyone else’s expense.” (09:10)

• Tariffs Debate: He criticizes sweeping tariffs against all countries, advocating targeted, retaliatory tariffs toward China and using tariffs as leverage rather than blanket policy (07:45).
• Isolation vs. Alliances: Argues for “closer trade and security relationships with countries surrounding China... to box in China and essentially isolate China.” (09:30)
• Economic Autarky Warning: Shapiro relates economic self-sufficiency to historic failures, referencing Japan, Germany, and South Korea’s pre-war experiences with autarky and the risks of economic stagnation and even expansionist militarism (11:30).

3. Tactics for Countering China

Timestamp: 14:00 – 21:00

• Regional Partnerships: “Build up better security and economic relationships in the Far East... and with Europe.” (16:00)
• Selective Use of Tariffs: Supports using tariffs as negotiating tools to address “non-tariff barriers” – especially with Europe concerning pharmaceutical pricing and trade fairness (16:30).
• Diversifying Supply Chains: Push for diversified supply lines, less reliance on China, and cutting off China’s allies, notably Russia (18:30).
• India as a Key Partner: Highlights the strategic importance of drawing India out of China’s sphere due to natural territorial disputes (19:25).
• Export Controls and Tech:

  “China’s already stealing our IP… Why should we be sending... our most sophisticated microchips… to China?” (20:55)

• China’s Internal Challenges: Emphasizes China's demographic collapse (legacy of the one-child policy) and immense debt burdens—“China has a serious demographic problem... They do not have enough human beings.” (21:30)

4. Critiquing the White House National Security Strategy

Timestamp: 22:00 – 33:00

• Leadership Credits/Confusion: Shapiro notes a "hand in everything" approach—mentions VP J.D. Vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, and others—but argues it leads to incoherence (22:30).
• Balance of Power Flaw: Criticizes the administration’s aim for “regional balances of power,” calling it an “Obama idea” and unserious in opposing adversaries (24:30).
• Trump’s Policy Shift: Gives Trump credit for reversing “three decades of mistaken American assumptions” about integrating China economically (25:10).
• Trade Policy Confusion: Points out contradictions in the new strategy—simultaneously arguing for reduced deficit, new coalitions, and protectionist/managing trade policy that could backfire (27:30).
• Quote:

  “If you want to box China in, we need better trade relationships with Japan, Australia, Europe, Canada, Mexico. Otherwise… They’re going to trade more with China and less with us.”
  — Ben Shapiro (28:55)

5. The Semiconductor and AI Dilemma

Timestamp: 33:00 – 36:00

• Nvidia Chips: Criticizes the decision to allow Nvidia to export H200 chips to China, warning of national security implications:

  “Once China has widespread access to those chips, they will buy some and then they will steal the IP and make others.” (34:20)

• AI Arms Race: Points out AI could offset China's demographic decline, raising stakes for U.S. tech export controls:

  “All the next wars in human history are going to be AI powered wars… Whoever has the best tech is going to win.” (35:45)

6. Flaws in Current Tariff and Trade Policy

Timestamp: 36:00 – 41:00

• Tariff Backfire: As tariffs cut the U.S. off, China boosts exports to other regions; U.S. risks isolation and inefficiency (37:40).
• Global Supply Chains: U.S. military and pharmaceutical supply chains remain overdependent on China—“We rely on China for 90% of our pharmaceutical ingredients.” — Jamie Dimon quoted (39:25).
• Scaling Up Military: Warns the U.S. may be falling behind China militarily, as China rapidly expands missiles and shifts focus to drone warfare, while the U.S. spends on slow, obsolete hardware (40:15).

7. Europe and Russia: Alliance or Ambiguity?

Timestamp: 41:00 – 48:00

• European Weakness: Critiques Europe for free-riding on defense, but criticizes the U.S. for playing “neutral broker” between Europe/Ukraine and Russia (42:00).
• On Russia:

  “The United States should not pretend to be a neutral broker between Russia and Ukraine...”

• Strategic Advice: U.S. should supply Europe with LNG instead of letting them rely on Russian gas and should bolster European confidence against both internal (democratic backsliding) and external (Russia) threats (43:42–45:13).
• Cynicism on Qatar: Highlights the contradiction of criticizing Ukraine’s corruption while broadcasting from Qatar, “one of the most corrupt states on planet Earth… a terror supporting slave state.” (46:05)

8. U.S.-China Trade, Farmers, and Economic Policy

Timestamp: 48:00 – 52:00

• Soybeans & Trade-Offs: Trade war harms American soybean farmers, leading to bailouts. Shapiro criticizes “cutting deals on Nvidia chips so we can open up their markets on soybeans” as a bad trade-off (49:45).
• Mercantilistic Cycle: Raises the problem of “payoffs” and artificial market distortions from protectionist policies (51:00).
• Affordability and Deregulation: While critical of protectionism, credits deregulation and tax policy for improving affordability and blames Democrats for past inflation (52:00).
• Quote:

  “The only way that people are going to feel the dynamism of the American economy is if we actually allow for the dynamism... That doesn't mean picking and choosing winners and losers.” (52:55)

9. Broader Labor, Welfare, and Health Care Issues

Timestamp: 53:00 – 55:30

• Welfare Fraud & Government Waste: Cites Medicaid/children's autism overdiagnosis as an example of policy gone awry due to incentives (53:30).
• Labor Market Realities: Points out that H1B visa restrictions hurt rural healthcare and that raising labor costs everywhere can harm economic dynamism (54:40).
• Letting Market Work: Praises direct-to-consumer pharmaceuticals and argues robust economic growth comes from market flexibility, not government micromanagement.

10. Closing Reflections

Timestamp: 55:30 – End

• Shapiro reiterates that good governance requires genuine delivery on economic growth and security, not just rhetoric. The reality of power is tougher than opposition; the “GOP needs to deliver” to win in 2026 and 2028, especially on economic and security strategy (55:00).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• "Beijing is pursuing a beggar thy neighbor growth model at everyone else’s expense." (09:10)
• “Autarky very often turns into a necessity for expanding your access to resources, which leads actually to invasions of other countries.” (11:55)
• "Why should we be sending… our most sophisticated microchips… to China?” (20:55)
• "If you want to box China in, we need better trade relationships with Japan, Australia, Europe, Canada, Mexico. Otherwise… They’re going to trade more with China and less with us.” (28:55)
• "All the next wars in human history are going to be AI powered wars… Whoever has the best tech is going to win." (35:45)
• "We rely on China for 90% of our pharmaceutical ingredients." — Jamie Dimon (39:25)
• "The United States should not pretend to be a neutral broker between Russia and Ukraine." (43:55)
• “The only way that people are going to feel the dynamism of the American economy is if we actually allow for the dynamism... That doesn’t mean picking and choosing winners and losers.” (52:55)

Key Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------|:--------------:| | Framing the China Threat | 00:30 - 05:00 | | China’s Economic Model & Global Expansion | 05:00 - 13:30 | | U.S. Policy: Alliances vs. Isolationism | 14:00 - 21:00 | | Critique of National Security Strategy | 22:00 - 33:00 | | AI, Nvidia Chips & Export Controls | 33:00 - 36:00 | | Tariff and Trade Policy Backfire | 36:00 - 41:00 | | Europe, Russia and Geopolitical Realities | 41:00 - 48:00 | | US-China Trade War & Domestic Impacts | 48:00 - 52:00 | | Labor, Healthcare, and Economic Dynamism | 53:00 - 55:30 | | Closing Thoughts on Governance | 55:30 - 56:00 |

Summary Takeaway

Shapiro urges a clear-eyed, pragmatic response to the challenge posed by China: reinforcing alliances, tightening controls on sensitive technology, rejecting isolationism, and restoring economic dynamism through freer markets and careful policy. He warns that both ideological retreat and incoherent policy risk surrendering global ground to China and Russia at the expense of U.S. security and prosperity.