Luke Rosiak (15:48)

Our department, the Department of Transportation has generally not gotten involved in these merger cases, but that's changing today. It is so important to make sure that passengers have choices, that they have access to low fares, that they have access to competition. And yet we've seen and less and less of that competition over the years.

Ben Shapiro (16:12)

Okay, again, the lack of competition is not going to be alleviated by things going bankrupt. Ridiculous. Now, again, this is the Democrat shtick. The Democrat shtick always and forever is government gets involved in a thing, government makes the thing worse. Blame capitalism. And for people who don't understand free markets and don't understand capitalism, that's always an easy pitch. Because we live in a very, very prosperous time. We are richer than any human beings in the history of mankind. And so we tend to think that the natural state of things is being rich. Again, if you took a person from 1800 and dropped them into modern American society, they would not know what is going on. They would think that they dropped into materialist heaven. Because you can get anything you want at the press of a button delivered to your door with a magic device you hold in your hand. And that thing was sourced from 70 different countries. And you can do it affordably. I know people talk about affordability, and again, affordability is a malleable term because no one ever considers anything truly affordable. But let's just put it this way. Back in 1800, an hour of candlelight might have cost you several hours of work during the day because you had to go get wax or you had to go get whale oil, okay? Today, electricity is free. You flick on a light and it just stays on all day and you don't even think about it, okay? Because capitalism makes things better and it makes things cheaper. But also because of that, we tend to not understand how capitalism works. So when something fails, we blame, quote, unquote, the system. But we never allow the system, meaning free markets, credit for the success. You want to know why? It is cheap to fly coast to coast. And it is, by the way, comparatively, look at the percentage of income people had to spend on an air ticket in 1960 versus the percentage of income that you have to spend on an air ticket today. Way, way, way, way lower. Okay? Why? Because of competition. Why? Because of innovation. But if a company goes bankrupt, that must be the evil of capitalism. Okay? So the reason that we have to argue in favor of capitalism is because if capitalism dies, America dies. We lose. We lose to our competitors. Also, because capitalism is, in fact, moral. And one of the things that I've been railing against in the conservative movement for a long time is this idea that capitalism and free markets can only be defended on a utilitarian basis, that free markets and capitalism are only good because of their products. And the problem with that argument, it's true. It's true that capitalism does make things better and it does make things cheaper. And people innovate and they invent. That's all true. But if you don't defend capitalism and free markets on a moral basis, you leave room for true grifters and demagogues ranging from Tucker Carlson to Bernie Sanders to suggest that true morality would be ditching the free markets in favor of a centralized governmental system that is fairer in some way. See the true Marxist appeal. The appeal of Marxism was never that Marxism was going to make life better for people. It was that it was going to change men's souls. That was always the religious appeal of the Marxist philosophy. It is not that you are going to have better stuff cheaper, that you are going to be more prosperous. That may have been Marx's original theory, but it was abjectly wrong and clearly wrong. But undergirding that theory was a different theory that true justice for man springs from the idea that a centralized government can provide cosmic justice. That free markets are somehow inherently unfair, that they are immoral, not that they're not productive, that they are immoral. Okay? So you have to make a moral defense of free markets. So here's the moral defense of free markets that conservatives should be making first. Man is made in the image of God. We're all made in the image of God. That means that we are creative choosing people with autonomy and power. And that means that we have a right to the products of our own labor because we are individuals. So if we make something, we own that thing. Free markets are rooted in that simple recognition. If I own my property, I ought to be able to trade it. I ought to be able to dispense with it. I ought to be able to invest it as I see fit, so long as my decisions are not infringing upon the equal rights of other people. And finally, free markets are just. They are. I understand there are a lot of people who believe that free markets are unjust because some people prosper and some people don't in the same measure. But that is a misinterpretation of the concept of justice. Justice does not mean that we all have the same result. Justice is the proposition, as Aristotle suggested, that equals should be treated equally and unequals unequally. You might be mad at God or at nature for not making the world the way that you would want it. But that's not justice. It's arrogance and stupidity and childishness. If you're just mad because some people are better at things than you are, that's the way the world works. LeBron James is better at basketball than I am. I am better at talking on camera than LeBron James. That's just the way the world is. That is a natural state of the world. We are all provided equal rights by God, but that doesn't mean we all have equal qualities. And there is no way for a centralized government to rectify that, absent some sort of Kurt Vonnegut, Harrison Bergeron burden, the people who actually achieve in order to achieve justice. Thomas Sowell points out that justice is usually considered a process, not an outcome. That's why we have a justice system. For example, we're not God. That we should just declare there should be equality or there should be justice. There is a universe. There's a world of real facts. And we have to determine whether we are making things worse or better when we make a specific change in that system. And by the way, free markets actually do promote true freedom because I get to value my labor however I choose. That's what the pricing system is. The pricing system is an aggregation of what I think something is worth and what you think something is worth and what we all collectively think things are worth. Free markets prize diversity in a very, very serious sense. They take account of every individual's needs and wants and desires and then they allow for that diversity of opinion to emerge on the value of products, goods and services. So why am I explaining all of this? Because what we are watching right now, and Spirit Airlines is a great example of this, what we are watching right now is an anti capitalist revolution. Already coming up, Tucker Carlson does an entire interview with the New York Times in which it becomes clear that he and Hassan Piker, they're basically the same thing, except that Tucker, you know, does his show out of a cabin and Hassan Piker does his show from Cartier. But other than that, they say kind of the same thing. First, there's been a lot of talk lately about how AI is going to make the world a better place. The answer is that's true, probably. But the real question is, better for whom? Well, it's better for your insurance company, which now has the ability to scrape your data and figure out exactly how to raise your premiums based on what you've been searching for on WebMD. Might be better for the HR department that can quietly filter Candidates based on browsing history. Probably better for political campaigns that can target you based on your personality profile, what you do online, not necessarily better all the way around for you. Now, the reality is that your online activity, that's your business and you don't want people scraping that data, which is why you need Express vpn. Your data is being collected. It's not being used right now, but it will be used later by people you don't know for purposes you didn't agree to. That's why I use ExpressVPN. That's why you should do the same. ExpressVPN is an app that encrypts 100% of your online activity and reroutes it through secure servers. That means no one can see what websites you visit or what, what apps you use. Not your Internet provider, not data brokers, not any malicious artificial intelligence. Your private browsing logs can't be used against you because they don't exist in the first place. It's also incredibly easy to use. You open that app, you tap one button, and now you're protected. It works on your phone, your laptop, your tablet, basically anything that connects to the Internet. And it's fast, so you're not sacrificing speed for privacy. It's also been ranked number one by the experts at the Verge and cnet. So don't wait until it's too late. Use my special link. Get four extra months of ExpressVPN's privacy protection, head on over to expressvpn.com Ben For a price as low as 349amonth plus four extra months of service, just go to expressvpn.com Ben EX P S vpn.com Ben okay, a lot of people have asked over the course of the last several years because I've been highly critical of Tucker Carlson. When I, I first noticed that Tucker Carlson was going wrong. Okay, so Tucker Carlson, he. I will say that the Tucker Carlson's dislike of capitalism was the first clue. The reason I'm bringing this up is because Tucker did a very, very long interview with the New York Times over the weekend that has struck a lot of conservatives as odd. Didn't strike me as odd because of course I've been watching what Tucker has been doing for a while and what he's representative of is a demagogic right that despises free markets and meritocracy and believes there need to be special carve out rights for particular groups. It is the mirror of the grievance party left. It's why I have suggested that the horseshoe right and the left are basically on the same page. They just have different groups, they're trying to benefit, that essentially their argument is the same. American society is a big conspiracy, free markets, a gigantic conspiracy, constitutional government, a gigantic conspiracy that must be broken through. There must be a revision of how we think about the role of government in our lives. And free markets have to be brought to heel. The, the meritocracy is a lie and you're suffering in your life. That's the fault of these vague systems. And there's a conspiratorial elite who are in charge of those systems trying to harm you. Now, a lot of people are saying that right, and they are saying that left. But the clues were all there. The clues are all there. So back in 2018, this is the moment where I first noticed that Tucker was off the rails. So back in 2018, now, eight years ago, I interviewed Tucker Carlson. This is a younger, more innocent Ben Shapiro interviewing Tucker Carlson. And Tucker was still on Fox at the time. And he had written a book in which he really ripped on capitalism in some pretty significant ways. In this interview, by the way, he would endorse the economic proposals of, say, Bernie Sanders openly. And I asked him about self driving cars. And one of the things that he said about self driving cars is that he would ban them. He said he would ban them because it would save trucker jobs in the Midwest. Okay. Which again is a Luddite perspective. The reality is self driving cars make things cheaper for people all over the United States. If transportation costs go down, guess what else goes down? Your costs. Productivity decreases cost because it increases supply. So I asked him in this interview about banning self driving cars. And he said he would. But this was the part that really struck me.

Tucker Carlson (26:26)

Look, capitalism is the best economic system I can think of, I think that anyone's ever thought of. But that doesn't mean that it's a religion and everything about it is good. No, but there's no Nicene Creed of capitalism that I have to buy into. What I care about is living in a country where decent people can live happy lives, actually. And so, no, I would say immediately, no, are you joking? And I maybe would make up some pretext for public consumption like, oh, they're dangerous. The technology's not quite finesse. No, but the truth would be I don't wanna put 10 million men out of work because you're gonna have 10 million dead families. And the cascading effect from that will wreck your country.

Ben Shapiro (27:03)

And now you'll Notice that Tucker even then was doing this game where he would say, I love capitalism. Capitalism is wonderful. I just think that capitalism isn't something we have to adhere to. It's something that we can ditch on behalf of the greater good. Okay? When the exception eats the rule, you don't have a rule. If the idea is that the greater good trumps the individual rights of the market, there is no limit on that. You can use that argument for virtually anything. For virtually anything. Okay? So this was reflected in Tucker's interview with the New York Times. So Tucker was asked if capitalism is evil. And here's what Tucker Carlson had to say about whether capitalism was evil. He said this to the New York Times.

Tucker Carlson (27:47)

The current system, and I don't know what you would call our economic system, and I'm often told it's free market capitalism. It doesn't bear any resemblance to what I thought free market capitalism was. I'm not sure the name is important except as a way to mislead and bully people into being quiet about it. But any economic system in which, you know, the overwhelming majority of, of the rewards go to an ever shrinking number of people or, or proportion of people is a doomed system because it makes people revolutionary. I saw this in Venezuela, which I visited as a child. It was a prosperous kind of first world country. Beautiful country, actually.

Ben Shapiro (28:31)

Okay? So the idea, first of all, that Venezuela was a model of capitalism until Ugo Chavez came around is ridiculous. They had serious corruption problems in Venezuela well before Hugo Chavez. But again, he's not defending capitalism. He is ripping capitalism in precisely the same terms that leftists rip capitalism. Tucker Carlson is not in any way on the right at this point. I mean, here is Hasan Piker with the folks at Trigonometry basically saying the same thing, that capitalism will inevitably lead to authoritarianism.

Hasan Piker (29:01)

My fear is that that is where capitalism inevitably leads. Why, if left unaddressed? Because capitalism is always going to deteriorate. It's slowly going to improve material conditions as opposed to feudalism. It's a far better system, for sure. It's far better than monarchies. Right, I agree. But there will come a point where it outlives its usefulness. And those who own the capital, the owners of capital, will have to make a decision. There's too much instability. There's too much chaos. We need to restore order.

Ben Shapiro (29:36)

Okay, so again, Tucker Carlson, Hasan Piker saying the exact same thing. And here was Tucker Carlson again in this interview with the New York Times saying that what we are watching right now is a total destruction of Economic opportunity. Again, this is demagoguery at the highest level. This is true demagoguery. We have an unemployment rate in this country of under 5%. The notion that nobody can get a job is a lie. It is a lie that is fostered by people who are attempting to destroy free market systems. Here's Tucker Carlson again. He and Hassan Piker believe the same things about these issues. Here he was

Tucker Carlson (30:13)

I dinner the other night with a bunch of kids from Stanford, really smart there at Stanford, and one of them said, oh yeah, his best friend just graduated with a degree in computer science last year, has not been able to find a job. Stanford computer science can't find a job. So that's like a window into the total destruction of the economic opportunity for young people. And what looks to me as a non economist like the true hoarding of capital by a tiny group of people. It looks like a very lopsided and unfair economic system that is guaranteed to radicalize young people. And not just young people, but especially young people.

Ben Shapiro (30:52)

So again, this idea that he cites one Stanford student to say that there's a hoarding of capital at the top levels, it's just Marxist claptrap. Yes, AI means that there are obviously transitions in the job market. But this idea that this is therefore somehow to be laid at the feet of free market capitalism itself and what you really need is government interventionism. It's insanity. Again, Hasan Piker says the exact same thing here. He was saying that profit seekers criticize him. Right? It's the profit seekers, the profiteers, the people who are, who are, you know, hoarding the capitol. This is just pure Marxist language from Tucker, which is why he and Hasan Piker are again holding hands here.

Hasan Piker (31:34)

I am the danger. We are the danger and I need them to understand this. We're dangerous to the corporate bottom line. We're dangerous to profit seekers. And that's the only thing that our politicians and many in the media care about right now. So in some respects they are correct. The danger is what might happen to, to profit seekers who want to pay while health care. And I don't mean like you know, divine retribution or punishment of any sort. I mean the worst punishment of all where they can no longer, they can no longer justify multi million dollar salaries. I am a danger to those who seek profit and put the interests of profit over the interests of people. And that's precisely the reason why they attack people like myself.

Ben Shapiro (32:20)

Okay, the interests of profit over the interests of people. This is the same thing that Tucker is saying. Here's Tucker, in this New York Times interview, saying that banks have an incentive to foment conflict. This is conspiratorial horseshit. I mean, truly, this idea that the folks at Citibank are sitting there being like, yes, let's do war, let's do war. Banks have zero incentive to foment conflict. In fact, banks lose money typically during wars because it turns out that the government gets very, very into the business of how banks run and then tries to seize their capital. Anyway, here's Tucker.

Tucker Carlson (32:54)

For most Americans, people who are born here, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, doesn't matter of any race, the real concerns are economic. And I do think that certain forces, the banks, people loaning the money, have a real incentive to foment dissent within the population against each other. Fight amongst yourselves while we continue to charge you 25% interest on your credit card.

Ben Shapiro (33:20)

I mean, again, this is. It's indistinguishable from Hasan Piker. The banks have an interest in what, the BLM riots? The banks have an interest in destruction of property. What the hell is he talking about? Again, the left and the right here are on the same page because in the end, what they hate, what they cannot stand, is the idea of a free market system that rests on individual freedom. They want to restructure it in line with their own preferences. And Bernie Sanders view on AI is basically the same as Tucker Carlson's view on AI, which is the same thing, by the way, as the Chinese view on AI. Because China is trying to destroy us on the AI front. They're trying to out compete us. Bernie Sanders over the past couple of weeks hosted a panel with literal members of Chinese universities on AI safety and governance. And at that panel he said, quote, the richest, most powerful people in the world are now building a brother white train with no brakes. They acknowledge they don't understand how it works. They don't know where it's headed. We need to cooperate. We need dialogue. Again, the reason that Bernie and all the rest of these characters are ripping on AI is not because they have some sort of principled stand against AI excesses. I think we all agree that AI is scary because we don't know quite what to make of it. That is not the same thing as what Bernie is doing, which is literally aligning with the Chinese government on this matter. Here is Bernie on the AI moratorium.

Tucker Carlson (34:44)

If scientists who are Nobel Prize winners, guys who've gotten the Turing Award, which is the major award given to people in computer science, if they say to you that humanity is in danger, do you think you might want to do something about it, or am I missing something? You told me so.

Ben Shapiro (35:02)

No, I. That the percentages are also someone's. Oh, there's only a 10% chance humanity is destroyed. It's like, well, I don't like those odds.

Tucker Carlson (35:10)

Only a 10% chance, John.

Hasan Piker (35:13)

I know

Ben Shapiro (35:16)

the anti capitalists over at Pod Save America and Bernie Sanders and Tucker all on the same page. And where does this end up? This ends up with the grievance party, like a true grievance party, a third party that is rooted in grievance. Here is Tucker Carlson in his interview with the New York Times saying that he wants a new party. Basically a new party that is isolationist on foreign policy, that is restrictionist on immigration, and that is interventionist in the economy. You might call it a National Socialist party. Here is Tucker Carlson.

Tucker Carlson (35:44)

You know, you can't just put a new coat of paint or fresh drywall on these structures because they are ridden with rot. Okay? So I would like to see them repaired. That would be the simplest solution. I don't think that's likely to happen. So of course I would be thrilled to see the rise of a party that represented the majority of Americans.

Ben Shapiro (36:06)

And again, Hasan Piker saying the same exact thing. Here he was with former Democratic Congresswoman Cori Bush of BLM fame, saying they're not going to vote for the Democrats again. It's all the same thing. It's all the same thing. It's an insurgent effort to overthrow American meritocracy. That's all it is. Here we go.

Hasan Piker (36:24)

For far too long, we've been told you have to vote for harm reduction. We all know the Republicans are corrupt. We all know that they're monsters, they're racist, they traffic in hatred. But we are here to say we are no longer going to vote for do nothing Democrats either. We're voting for Democrats with a purpose.

Ben Shapiro (36:49)

Now, again, all of this is rooted in a broader conspiracy theory. Because here's the thing most Americans understand because they are not ungrateful, that America is a unique and incredible place, that our free markets make us awesome, that our Constitution means we have freedoms no one else on earth has. That the greatest privilege in life is to be born an American. It's an unbelievable privilege. And so you have to come up with a conspiracy theory that suggests actually you've been gaslit. Actually you are a victim of false consciousness. Actually, the institutions have been brainwashing you and are routinely betraying you. And Tucker and Hasan Piker, they're on the same Team here. This is why during this New York Times interview. It's insane. By the way, Tucker Carlson, who apparently pretends that he's a friend to TP USA and Erica Kirk is literally out there sowing doubts about the FBI's investigation into Charlie Kirk's murder. This is not the activity of a friend. This is an activity of a leech. Here is Tucker Carlson.

Tucker Carlson (37:45)

My concern more broadly is about the investigation into Charlie's murder, which was short circuited by the FBI. And I'd like to know why. And I don't care to be screamed at for asking that question. It's a legitimate question and we know that. I know that for a bunch of reasons. But the public knows it because Joe Kent said it out loud and explained it. He's the head of the National Counterterrorism Center. He's an odni, and he was told by the FBI that he could not investigate it. And as a friend of Charlie's, I'm not gonna be intimidated into saying the following, which is, on what grounds would you do that? I'm not saying the guy who's been arrested didn't pull the trigger.

Ben Shapiro (38:26)

I'm not.

Tucker Carlson (38:27)

There's been a trial.

New York Times Reporter (38:28)

He was obviously handed over by his father.

Tucker Carlson (38:31)

Do we know that? I don't know what I know because there hasn't been a trial yet.

Ben Shapiro (38:36)

I don't know what I know. I don't know what I know. This ridiculous game. I'm not gonna go into the tremendous evil of undermining an ongoing prosecution into the murder of Charlie Kirk, which actually is an evil thing to do. I'm just gonna point out the point of what Tucker is doing, which of course is to sow doubt in American institutions, even the ones that are currently run by Tucker's supposed erstwhile allies. It's all part of a broader conspiracy theory that the institutions of America are lying to you. They're aimed at destroying you. Again, he and the Hasan pikers of the world are holding hands. America is inherently corrupt. America's systems are inherently evil. America's systems need to be torn to the ground. Here's Hassan Piker saying the same thing from a different angle.

Hasan Piker (39:15)

America is in its foundation of white supremacist country. This is very frustrating for Republicans to hear. This is even frustrating for liberals to hear sometimes.

Tucker Carlson (39:23)

But it's just the truth,

Ben Shapiro (39:26)

okay? And then you get to where it's very clear. Everybody's holding hands. So if you have a conspiracy theory about the free markets that truly they're the invention of a corrupt group of people. If your belief is that America's systems are inherently evil, they lie to you on behalf of somebody else and then you look around, you say, who's successful? Who are the beneficiaries of this system? This is how you end up with Tucker Carlson and Hasan Piker and all the rest of the people trafficking in anti Israel, bizarre anti Jewish conspiracy theories in the same group. That is always the outcome of this conspiratorial worldview. It is not a feature. It is not a bug. It is a feature. It is a thing that unifies. It is the glue that holds everybody together, truly holds everybody together. And this is not speculative, right? Mehdi Hassan, who is a wild anti American propagandist, he's out there saying that his relatives love Tucker Carlson. Now, I can't imagine why. Would that be because Tucker Carlson is upholding the virtue of Sharia law in cities around the world? Or would it be because he's doing propaganda on behalf of Islam's view of Jesus? Or is it because he's doing propaganda against Israel every single day of the week? Or is it because he is spreading conspiracy theories about how nefarious Zionists are in control of the American government? Here's Mehdi Hassan again, one of the more despicable people in American public commentary and talk about people who are immigrants to the United States taking advantage of the system. Here he is praising Tucker Carlson for

Luke Rosiak (40:54)

the people watching at home these days. Tucker Carlson has a big fan base amongst the anti war left who see him as saying the right stuff, trying to stop Trump from illegal wars in Iran and amongst a lot of Muslims and Arab Americans who see him now as this great champion of Palestine. Wherever I go, literally Hassan, wherever I go in this country, I do a lot of live events. I do a lot of public events. People come up to me, when are you going on Tucker Carlson? When are you going to do an event with Tuck Carlson? Why don't you do a collab with Tucker Carlson? We love Tucker Carlson. Wherever I go, people ask me more about Tucker Carlson even in my own family than they ask me about my wife and kids.

Ben Shapiro (41:25)

Meanwhile, Cenk Weger is out there also standing for Tucker Carlson. Quote, if your house is on fire and someone comes with a hose, you don't ask him about what his policy is. On the carried interest loophole, you thank him for the help. If you hadn't noticed, Israel lit our house on fire. And the alliance is very strong and is based again on this idea that somehow a nefarious coterie of Outside people, Jews are running the country. Here is Tucker Carlson claiming that President Trump is being held hostage by Netanyahu and his advocates in the United States, who presumably would be pro Israel Jews and Christian Zionists, the people he says he despises most. Here he was talking to the New York Times in terms that are quite familiar to every anti Semite in the right wing and on the left.

Tucker Carlson (42:07)

This was not a normal decision making process. And my strong impression was that Trump was more a hostage than, than a, than a sovereign decision maker in this.

New York Times Reporter (42:17)

Well, so tell me what you're getting at when you say the President of the United States, the most powerful country in the world, had no choice.

Tucker Carlson (42:22)

I don't know what I'm getting at. I'm just telling you what I observed. He seemed, and that's kind of the question. And what I'm really fascinated by is the lack of curiosity on display into how exactly this happened. What are the mechanisms by which a guy who's supposedly sovereign in charge granted this authority by voters, tens of millions of them, can't make a decision in the country's interest or even in his own interest. He knew, and I know he knew because I talked to him about it directly, that the consequences, potential consequences, were profound and profoundly bad. The end of his presidency to start, which I think it has proven to be, he knew that.

Ben Shapiro (43:02)

I don't even know what I knew. I don't even know what I'm saying. I don't even know what I'm questioning. I'm just asking why people aren't asking the same questions I'm asking when there's no evidence of the questions. Okay, this again is a right left uniting issue, at least on the fringes. Now, the mainstream of the Democratic Party has been doing the same thing. They've also been claiming that Trump was somehow argued into the war by the nefarious Jews. Now, President Trump, I've noticed it's kind of a headstrong character. I've noticed he makes a lot of his own decisions. But according to Tucker Carlson and the left, the only way this could have happened is if somebody argued Trump into it. And those people probably had suspiciously evil motives. He entered a war, got pulled into it by Bibi Netanyahu. Let's be clear about that, because people

President Trump (43:45)

are offended that Netanyahu is bragging that J.D. vance, the Vice president, is reporting to him. How about reporting to the United States Congress? I mean, this administration has insulted Congress. They're more concerned with reporting to people like Netanyahu than they are to the American people.

Ben Shapiro (44:03)

What are our country leaders doing?

Tucker Carlson (44:05)

They're following Netanyahu.

Ben Shapiro (44:07)

The timing of this war was dictated by Bibi Netanyahu. But we should never, ever be bullied,

Tucker Carlson (44:17)

as maybe President Trump was, by any other world leader.

Ben Shapiro (44:22)

Just ridiculous. And by the way, Tucker goes further than that. He says that Israel decides the future of the American economy and American service members. In this interview with the New York Times,

Tucker Carlson (44:32)

Israel has that power in our Congress. Not because we have so many Jews. I don't know how many Jews live in the United states. Fewer than 10 million, I think. But because we have tens of millions of evangelical Christians who unquestioningly support Israel because they believe it's their theological duty to do so. So on this question hangs the future of the American economy and the lives of. Of American service members.

Ben Shapiro (44:58)

The idea that the American economy hinges on the future of Israel is bizarre. It's bizarre. But of course, Tucker also thinks that Citibank is a bigger threat to the United States than Hamas. So here we go.

Tucker Carlson (45:12)

I'm against the idea that Hezbollah and Hamas are at the center of our domestic conversation. Like they're the big problems we face. They're not. They're not a bigger problem than, like the behavior of Citibank. I'm sorry, Credit card debt is a much bigger problem than Hezbollah will ever be. So stop with this. Stop with the brainwashing. This is bonkers. I live here. I'm almost 57. I've lived here a long time. Hamas and Hezbollah, while they're not getting my endorsement, are not relevant to the experience of most Americans.

Ben Shapiro (45:41)

Citibank is a bigger threat to Americans than Hamas or Hezbollah. I mean, first of all, we should start with the question of whether Citibank is actually a threat to Americans, because it turns out tens of millions of Americans actually bank at Citibank and they could not take out a credit card from Citibank if they so chose. They could do that. That doesn't seem. Again, what Tucker is doing here is suggesting that you are being distracted from the evils of American capitalism by foreign threats that don't actually exist on behalf, presumably, of a nefarious coterie of people who are somehow gaming the system. And this is left wing agitprop. That's all it is. And then Tucker, of course, plays ignorant about everything. The final point here is that he plays ignorant about literally everything. So the New York Times asks Tucker about the Protocols of the Elders Design. The Protocols of the Elders Design is a conspiracy tract that was written by the Russian secret police. In the early 20th century, it was trafficked around. It became very popular in anti Semitic circles. And it claimed that essentially there were a group of Jews that got together on Friday nights and basically decided to control the world. It is the most famous anti Semitic tract ever written. Tucker's not a moron. He knows totally what this is. But of course, Tucker claims he has no idea what it is. This is always the game, Tucker. He knows a lot. He knows more than you. He knows what he knows. He doesn't know much but what he knows. And it's always something that he doesn't actually know. And then when something comes up that he actually does know, his immediate response is, I don't know anything about that. I don't even know what you're talking about. What is a protocol? I don't even know. Here we go.

New York Times Reporter (47:09)

There is an entire antisemitic worldview that has been based on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. You know, that there is, like, this cabal of powerful Jews that controls the world. And, you know, that book was written in the early 20th century, but it, you know, helped the Nazis. And it really has informed a lot of the views of many people today that there is, you know, this very powerful sect of Jewish people who want global war. War and global conflict. People are genuinely concerned that it opens the door to this idea that has been debunked and has been used in absolutely vicious ways to annihilate an entire people.

Tucker Carlson (47:56)

I'm not quite sure what that means. Let me tell you my concerns. My main concern is the destruction of the United States. And that is in no way to minimize anyone else's concerns. But I have a right to that concern, and I will not have my own concerns hijacked. I will not submit to being told what my concerns should be. I'm an adult man who pays his taxes. I have a right to come up with my own hierarchy of concern.

Ben Shapiro (48:25)

No one is telling him what his concerns should be. He can have whatever concerns he wants. It is indeed a free country. The question is whether his concerns are justified, whether they are based in evidence or whether they are part of a broader conspiracy theory about the evils of the United States. By the way, he was asked about Nick Fuentes, of course, and he said that Senator Ted Cruz is more morally repulsive than the Nazi standing. Nick Fuentes. This is. This. This guy is supposedly a leader on the right. All right.

Tucker Carlson (48:52)

Who do you think is more morally repulsive? Ted Cruz.

New York Times Reporter (48:56)

Who do you think is more morally repulsive?

Tucker Carlson (48:58)

Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz. Is a sitting US Senator who has called for the killing of people who did nothing wrong. Whole populations who advocated for this war. Nick Fuentes is like a kid. He's like 26 or 70. He has no power except his words. Here you have a public official, who we pay, who has actual power, who's voting for things, who's making policy decisions. And those decisions would include. In fact, they are focused on the murder of people who did nothing wrong. And yet no one thinks it's a big deal. Well, this is totally fine. I mean, if there's tape of Nick Fuentes saying we should kill people because we hate their parents or it's okay to kill children, I would love to see the tape, because that's disgusting.

Ben Shapiro (49:43)

Is there just Ted Cruz saying that?

Tucker Carlson (49:45)

Basically, the entire US Senate does every single day, and no one notices?

Ben Shapiro (49:50)

Tucker's such a liar. In the end, he's just a liar. He's a liar. But because here's the thing. You have to believe in a gigantic lie about the United States in order to propagate this crap. You have to. And when I say he's a liar, I mean that in the. In the purest possible sense. Here was Tucker Carlson literally denying he said a thing that he is on tape saying. So he was asked by this New York Times reporter about that time, he suggested that the president was the Antichrist. And he says, I never said that. And she plays him the tape, and then he continues to pretend he never said it. It's unbelievable.

New York Times Reporter (50:18)

But I ask because, you know, you've been talking on your show about whether Trump is the Antichrist.

Tucker Carlson (50:23)

I have not said that.

New York Times Reporter (50:24)

On your show, the day after Easter, you noted he did not put his hand on the Bible during his swearing ceremony as president. You said, and I'm quoting, maybe he didn't put his hand on the Bible because he affirmatively rejects what's inside that book. And then on a recent show, you went further, saying, here's a leader who's mocking the gods of his ancestors, mocking the God of gods and exalting himself above them. Could this be the Antichrist?

Tucker Carlson (50:47)

I actually did not say, could this be the Antichrist? Here's a leader who's mocking the gods of his ancestors, mocking the God of gods and exalting himself above them. Could this be the Antichrist? Well, who knows? I don't know where that comes from, but I know that those words never left my lips because I'm not sure I fully understand what the Antichrist is. If there's just one. I actually Tried to understand it.

Ben Shapiro (51:14)

Another thing he doesn't understand, and then he hides behind ignorance, the thing he literally said. And that's just one lie. But the bigger lie is the lie that he is propagating. It's a lie that the left is also propagating. It is a lie that America is a terrible place that is filled with nefarious forces beyond your control. They're actually in control of your life and wrecking America. And if that view of America prevails, then we are in serious, serious, serious trouble. Now, meanwhile, the President of the United States continues to be a bulwark against stupidity, particularly when it comes to the war in Iran. The one that Tucker is decrying is the end of America. By the way, there is no, legitimately no argument that what is happening in Iran is the end of America. Even if we were to walk away right now, it would not be remotely close to the end of America. That's insane. Okay, the centcom, the United States Central Command, put out a notice this morning that the United States is now forcibly attempting to open the Strait of Hormuz. Quote, US Navy guided missile destroyers are currently operating in the Arabian Gulf after transiting the Strait of Hormuz in support of Project Freedom. American forces are actively assisting efforts to restore transit for commercial shipping. As a first step, two US Flagged merchant vessels have successfully transited through the Strait of Hormuz and are safely headed on their journey. Okay, so if the United States opens the Strait of Hormuz and the only thing that remains closed is Iran's capacity to ship oil out, they've got a massive problem because again, their leverage point is the idea they could blackmail the United States into basically ending our conflict with them without them giving up anything. By shutting off the Strait of Hormuz, President Trump is not having any of it here. He was saying, listen, if we have to, we'll strike again. What circumstances did you restart military strikes on target?

President Trump (52:59)

Well, I don't want to say that. I mean, I can't tell that to a reporter if they misbehave, if they do something bad. But right now, we'll see. But it's a possibility that could happen, certainly.

Ben Shapiro (53:15)

Well, I mean, again, the president, I have to give him extraordinary credit here. What he's doing right now is an act of tremendous political bravery. The polls, by the way, are very negative on the war. Not a shock. The polls are very negative on everything. And this is what happens when people look at one number in isolation without looking at the other numbers. They think that for Example, the President's approval ratings are low because of the war. The reality is the President's approval ratings are low across the board right now, and that is because of people's dyspepsia with the economy. Right now, he's got a 34% approval rating on the economy. He's got a 33% approval rating on the war. He's got a 45% approval rating on the border. What happens is, if a politician starts to hit an unpopular, period, everything that he does gets unpopular. But that doesn't mean that what he's doing isn't brave. What he's doing is incredibly brave. His point is that we can blast the hell out of Ron or we can make a deal. He would prefer a deal, but he's not going to walk away with an American l, which is, again, very different from pretty much all the presidents we've had in recent history. What kind of options? How would it look different?

President Trump (54:19)

I mean, do we want to go and just blast the hell out of them and finish him forever, or do we want to try and make a deal? I mean, those are the options.

Ben Shapiro (54:27)

Do you want to go blast the hell out of him? I prefer not.

President Trump (54:30)

On a human basis, I prefer not. But that's the option.

Ben Shapiro (54:36)

Okay. Meanwhile, the Secretary of the treasury, who has been operating with extraordinary precision with regard to the Iranian economy, he points out that they are basically running out of money. They are having to shut down oil refineries because they don't have a way of shipping their oil out of the country. They're running out of money to pay their guys, the irgc, which means the regime has a serious problem on its hand. And remember, grabbing the Strait of Hormuz was not an exercise of power. It was an exercise of desperation. Shutting off the Strait of Hormuz alienated every country in the region and most of the countries of Asia as well. And if they somehow lose control of the Strait of Hormuz, the Iranians, if they can no longer control the flow in and out of the Strait of Hormuz, except that their oil is being stopped, then what leverage do they have left? Especially if the United States goes after the remainder of their ballistic missile facilities, something that, for example, the UAE and Saudi Arabia would love to see happen. Here's Secretary of the Treasury Scott Besant.

Scott Bessant (55:30)

And I can tell you that we are suffocating the regime and they are not able to pay their soldiers. This is a real economic bulk blockade, and it is in all parts of government, all hands on deck. It is the blockade that our great navy is doing. No ships are getting through and we have upped the pressure on anyone trying to remit money into Iran to help the irgc. They are a corrupt institution. They've been stealing from the Iranian people for years. They have money offshore. We've tracked that down. We will continue to track that down, and we're going to preserve those assets for the Iranian people on the other side of this conflict.

Ben Shapiro (56:18)

Again, what the President is doing right now is likely to be successful. Okay, so time for a thing I like and a thing that I hate. So I know that people like Tucker Carlson have suggested that the great villain of World War II was not Adolf Hitler. You know, the person who started World War II and was responsible for the death of legitimately tens of millions of human beings. He that actually the great villain of World War II is Winston Churchill, the leader of Great Britain during World War II. This of course is historically ignorant and ridiculous on its face. So I've been going through and rereading Churchill's six volume history of the Second World War and there's some good reminders for our time, mainly because they are eternal lessons. Quote delight in smooth sounding platitudes, refusal to face unpleasant facts, genuine love of peace, and pathetic belief that love can be its sole foundation. The utter devotion of the liberals to sentiment apart from reality, though free from wickedness or evil design, played a definite part in the unleashing upon the world of horrors and miseries. As Churchill pointed out, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worst case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. And the point being that starry eyed anti Americanism, anti Westernism is not a solve for people who want to destroy you. Ranging from China to Russia to Iran to the Soviet Union to Nazi Germany. And one more thing that I like. We'll end on an upbeat note before we get to the subscriber member block. Okay, so it is May the Fourth. So may the Fourth be with you. As we who like Star wars are fond of saying, there is a brand new trailer for the Mandalorian and Grogu, which is one of the successful spinoff properties under sort of the Kathleen Kennedy Universe. This is the Pedro Pascal series that is now being made into a movie about Baby Yoda and the Mandalorian. Here we go. We've all heard stories of the Mandalorian bounty hunter and a child. I only hunt Imperial War criminals. I'll take out every bad guy in your deck of cards. This isn't about revenge. It's about preventing another war. Up and maybe on it. Okay, before going into harm's way, check your armor first. We're protecting everything the Rebellion fought for. Good luck. Okay, I'm into it. Strap in. I'll take my kids to watch this. Listen, I'm a Star wars fan, so this is a thing that I will check out for sure. Okay? We don't have to watch the rest of it, but this is cool. Okay, I'm into it. I like it. Okay? It's got the at ats. It's got the Land Speeders. I'm there, so may the Fourth be with you. Alrighty. The show continues for our members. Right now we're going to get into Zorn Mamdani and his take on protesters clashing with ice in New York. Again, Third Worldism is a real thing. It's happening inside the United States. Remember, in order to watch, you have to be a member. If you're not a member, become a member. Use code Shapiro at checkout for two months free on all annual plans. Click that link in the description and join us.