The Ben Shapiro Show: FLASHBACK – How To Disagree w/ Bill Maher

Date: September 23, 2025
Host: Ben Shapiro (B), The Daily Wire
Guest: Bill Maher (A), Host of HBO’s “Real Time”

Episode Overview

This dynamic episode features a spirited conversation between conservative commentator Ben Shapiro and liberal comedian/commentator Bill Maher. The two discuss the growing polarization of American politics, the culture wars, Covid-19 policy and misinformation, identity politics, wokeness, climate change, the future of political parties, election integrity, foreign policy, and ways to restore civil discourse across ideological lines. Despite their wide differences, Shapiro and Maher model engaged disagreement, humor, and mutual respect—exploring how to debate without rancor and why that's more needed than ever in American life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of Civil Discourse & Political Polarization

• Maher opens by lamenting how everything in America has become politicized, especially on social media:

  "All people talk about is politics all the time. What is Facebook? It's arguing with some kid you went to high school with...now you have to talk about who's on the Supreme Court." (A, [00:00])

• Both agree that relentless political identity is fueling division, and that people should recognize shared humanity beyond politics.

  "That's, I think, what is tearing America apart...You find out, oh, this person is not that different from me." (A, [00:07])

2. Covid-19: Reality, Policy, and Media Misinformation

• Maher, critical of the mainstream Covid narrative, chose to film his special in Florida for manageable protocols and more personal freedom:

  "Florida had the reputation well deserved for life goes on...You can respect [Covid], have compassion, and still think it was handled the wrong way." (A, [02:12]-[04:05])

• Shapiro recounts his move from LA to Florida due to what he saw as overreach:

  "In LA they shut down all the public parks. You couldn't take your kid outdoors...if I could take my kids rioting, it would've been ok. But I couldn't. So I had to be double quarantined." (B, [04:05])

• Both criticize the extreme politicization of health policies, with Shapiro noting that being pro-vaccine but anti-mandate led to labels of “anti-vaxxer.”

  "We were labeled anti-vaxx anyway because we weren't saying you should lose your job if you didn't vax." (B, [05:33])

• Maher skewers liberal misinformation, citing polls that showed vast overestimation of hospitalization rates and avoidance of obesity as a driver of serious Covid outcomes:

  "41% of Democrats...thought [Covid hospitalization rate] was over 50% when it was...around 1%. That's a crazy number to be off that much about." (A, [06:48])
  "Obesity is the real epidemic...78% of people who died or are hospitalized were obese. It's the ultimate third rail in discourse." (A, [08:44])

3. America’s Culture of Victimhood and Obesity

• Shapiro asserts that resisting self-improvement is culturally enshrined:

  "We've really cracked down very hard on the idea that people have any sort of control over their lives. Obesity is a great example...most people who are obese probably should be eating less." (B, [10:57])

• Maher quips:

  "I was just gonna say they love to stuff their face. But it's really the same idea, isn't it?" (A, [11:20])

• Maher differentiates between shaming and “fat-splaining”:

  "I'm not fat-shaming. I'm fat-splaining...Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, absolutely. But science is not." (A, [12:20])
  "Ever see a fat 90 year old? Never. Shouldn't that tell you something?" (A, [13:46])

4. Identity Politics and Its Double-Edged Sword

• Shapiro observes that identity politics transforms disagreement into personal attacks:

  "If your identity is your politics and then I disagree with your politics...that's me attacking your character." (B, [15:31])

• Maher notes the phenomenon exists on both left and right, likening “Make America Great Again” to identity politics:

  "What is more of an identity than the Trump voter, the white person who thinks America is being taken away...That is also a type of identity politics." (A, [16:44])

• The hosts discuss the fallacy of treating large demographic groups as ideological monoliths, especially regarding the Hispanic vote:

  "A lot of them are thinking, no, I'm here. The last thing I want is someone else coming who's going to do my job for less." (A, [18:09])

5. Wokeness, Electoral Strategy, and Party Realignment

• Shapiro argues that “wokeness” is “electoral poison” for Democrats:

  "Wokeness is such electoral poison for Democrats...because it’s treating people as members of identity groups they may not see as their chief signifier." (B, [21:26])

• Maher reflects on the shifting meaning of "woke":

  "If woke...was alert to injustice, okay, I'm down with that...But yes, it became a byword for a lot of this goofy stuff." (A, [22:17])

• Maher on political positioning:

  "As long as the Republicans are a party who in my view does not take seriously the emergency of climate change, and I’m not sure if they even believe in American democracy anymore...I don’t think they’re even saveable." (A, [23:33])

6. Republican Votes and Political Evolution

• Maher reveals he has voted Republican in the past—for candidates like Bob Dole in 1996 and John McCain in the 2000 primary, but sees current GOP as fundamentally changed:

  "It's so different than where the Republican party is now." (A, [26:24])

7. Climate Change: What Solutions Make Sense?

• Shapiro accepts IPCC findings but attacks the feasibility of “pouring money into green energy.” He prioritizes adaptation (e.g., seawalls) over prevention:

  "Humans are great at adapting and we suck at actually preventing." (B, [29:27])

• Maher asks if US leadership can affect global policy:

  “Do you think if we led the way at some point that would have some influence on other countries?” (A, [31:11])

• On challenges for developing countries:

  "Now they finally are getting [air conditioning, cars]...it's very hard to say to them, look, we've been enjoying these things for quite a long time. Now you stop that right now." (A, [34:03])

8. Voting Integrity, Trump, and Election Denial

• The pair scrutinizes claims of voter suppression versus voter fraud, both agreeing these issues are overblown compared to their partisan uses:

  "The evidence of widespread voter suppression...does not exist in the same way that the voter fraud evidence...does not exist." (B, [37:38])
  "The people who want to vote are going to vote...We shouldn't make it harder for them. There shouldn't be long lines in black neighborhoods and no lines in white neighborhoods." (A, [38:17])

• Maher’s deeper concern is Trump loyalists manipulating future vote counts:

  "It's what Stalin said. It doesn't matter who votes. It matters who counts the votes. That's where they're heading." (A, [40:39])

• They debate the durability of constitutional structures and “sorting” into red and blue states:

  "The hope for the country is...the federal government needs to let California be California and...Florida be Florida...Otherwise it's going to be a bare majority of red people cramming down their views on the 49% of blue or vice versa." (B, [43:08])

9. Restoring the Art of Disagreement

• The hosts emphasize attitude adjustment and the toxic consequences of constant mockery and animosity:

  "I don't want to endorse that attitude on either side that make you cry your leftist tear...We've got to step back from that because we're at a place now where we're just loathing each other." (A, [43:17])

10. Trump, The GOP, and 2024

• Maher doubts Trump will accept defeat in 2024 and bets Shapiro that Trump will try to overturn another loss. Shapiro is not so sure Trump or his supporters would succeed:

  "If he loses...you think he's gonna go gently into that night?...I think the constitutional structures have proved themselves extraordinarily durable." (B/A, [52:10])

11. The Russia-Ukraine Conflict & West/East Dynamics

• Shapiro comments on the West’s failure of deterrence and the shock of European rearmament. Maher analyzes Putin’s psychology and the dangers of mistaking Russian ambitions:

  "I think this is actually turning out to be...in the long run, I think, it's gonna be a good thing, because first of all, Putin is being shown to be way less strong than we thought he was." (A, [56:16])

• They debate NATO’s expansion:

  "If you're gonna make a move, make it strong...But to take the worst path—offering NATO to Ukraine then not following through—is a disaster." (B, [58:55])

• On the lesson for neutral nations:

  "If you're an independent armed nation right now...how fast are you looking for a nuclear weapon right now?" (B, [59:22])

• On Russian culture and communism’s legacy:

  "You can't have communism for as long as they had it...what it did to the psyche, the cynicism...you're not going to get over that in just a generation." (A, [65:02])

12. Ending on a Positive Note: Shared Interests Beyond Politics

• Maher invites Shapiro on his non-political podcast:

  "I would love to have you on...my theme is often this is how we get our country back. People talk politics too much...there's a million things you could talk about that aren't political." (A, [53:01])
  "That's what America needs to do. Two guys who don't agree on everything...but who can talk without hating each other." (A, [53:01])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Over-Politicization:

  "That's, I think, what is tearing America apart...All people talk about is politics all the time. What is Facebook? It's arguing with some kid you went to high school with." – Bill Maher, [00:00]

• On Obesity, Covid, and Science:

  "Ever see a fat 90 year old? Never. Shouldn't that tell you something?" – Maher, [13:46]

• On Identity Politics:

  "If your identity is your politics and then I disagree with your politics...that's me attacking your character." – Shapiro, [15:31]

• On Wokeness:

  "If woke...was alert to injustice, okay, I'm down with that, but yes, it became a byword for...goofy stuff." – Maher, [22:17]

• On the Russian Psyche & Legacy of Communism:

  “You can’t have communism for as long as they had it…what it did to the psyche, the cynicism…that’s not going to go away overnight.” – Maher, [65:02]

• On How to Disagree:

  "What we're doing is what America needs to do. Two guys who don't agree on everything...who can talk without hating each other." – Maher, [53:01]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Intro & Civil Discourse: [00:00] – [01:19]
• Covid-19 Policy & Experience in Florida: [02:12] – [06:48]
• Obesity, Health, and Media Blindspots: [06:48] – [14:27]
• Identity Politics, Hispanic Vote, and Wokeness: [15:31] – [23:33]
• Republican Evolution & Past Votes: [25:55] – [27:33]
• Climate Change: Adaptation, Policy, & Global Leadership: [28:09] – [35:39]
• Election Integrity, Voter Suppression, Gerrymandering: [36:09] – [41:28]
• Political Polarization, Federalism, and Hope for Disagreement: [43:08] – [44:02]
• Trump, 2024, and the Durability of Institutions: [49:35] – [52:42]
• Restoring Civil Disagreement, Club Random Podcast Invite: [53:01] – [54:52]
• Russia, Ukraine, and NATO: [55:29] – [66:19]
• Wrap-Up/Mutual Appreciation: [66:19] – [66:32]

Summary

This episode is both sharp and deeply human. It serves as an example of how ideological opposites can navigate the loud, divisive terrain of American politics without succumbing to contempt or cancellation. Maher and Shapiro disagree vigorously on matters from health mandates to foreign policy, from identity politics to interpretations of recent history. Yet, they find common ground in the need for honesty, nuance, and curiosity—and close the show with an invitation to keep the dialogue going on topics outside of the culture wars.

For listeners longing for both substance and civility, this conversation is a blueprint for principled disagreement in a polarized era.