Podcast Summary: The Power of Media w/ Steven Bartlett

The Ben Shapiro Show | October 14, 2025 | The Daily Wire

Overview

In this special edition episode—recorded at the Chief Audio Officer summit in sunny Southern California—Ben Shapiro (The Daily Wire) and Steven Bartlett (Diary of a CEO) join the Media Roundtable to dive deep into the value, challenges, and power of independence in media and podcasting. Bringing together two of the industry's biggest names, the episode explores what truly sets independents apart, their relationships with advertisers, and why depth and authenticity matter more than ever in today’s creator-driven landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance of Independence in a Consolidating Media Landscape

• Independent Roots: The host reflects on how most major shows started as independents and argues that they remain “beacons of free speech, of independent thought." ([01:00])
• Ben Shapiro: Emphasizes that The Daily Wire’s success hinged on not being “a one-car crash company,” expanding beyond himself to host a wide range of voices and resisting the lure of buyouts.

  “We built an entire company off the back originally of my brand, but it’s now a much larger company than that... We always had bigger aspirations than for me to just be a show host.” ([04:43])

• Stephen Bartlett: Shares his perspective on control, recalling the lessons learned from his first company, where giving up control stifled his passion and vision.

  “I want to be able to do this for the next 30, 40, 50 years of my life... I’ve learned from that, to keep control of that thing in my hands.” ([07:41])

2. The Hidden Costs and Emotional Toll of Independence

• Responsibility & Risk:
  • Ben Shapiro: Discusses the continuous pressure and sleepless nights that come with being responsible for employees and facing volatile markets.

    “When you’re the person who’s responsible for 250 employees... the amount of time and worry that you put into everything… keeps you up at night.” ([06:05])

  • Stephen Bartlett: Frames the trade-off as betting on yourself—accepting more risk for greater upside and personal fulfillment.

    “There’s trade offs you make, and one factor in those trade offs is you’re going to have to bet on yourself… but for that, the upside potential is increased.” ([07:41])

3. Why Podcasting Is the 'Home Base'

• Authenticity & Connection:
  • Ben Shapiro: Stresses that podcasting strips away inauthenticity, revealing the real host and building a powerful connection with listeners.

    “My show is me. I am my show. The way that I talk to people in real life is the way that I talk to people on the show... I think the podcast medium is amazing at stripping away inauthenticity. That’s why people really like it so much.” ([10:00])

  • He also identifies the core value he provides: “authoritative takes on the news,” relying on “information, like more information, more information” to meet audience desires. ([10:54])
• Depth vs. Virality:
  • Stephen Bartlett: Contrasts surface-level viral content with the depth and impact of longer-form media.

    “Those two-minute videos were doing tens of millions of views… but nobody ever mentioned them. But my first podcast episode that did a thousand downloads? I got more feedback than anything I’d ever done.” ([12:55])

  • Predicts the future of media will reward platforms that offer "the greatest depth and the strongest parasocial relationships in a world where AI has entered the room." ([12:55])

4. The Power of Authentic, Dynamic Ad Integration

• Ben Shapiro: Shares how his ad integrations (e.g., Perplexity, Boland Branch) work because they genuinely reflect his experiences and are woven directly into content.

  “I’ll stop in the middle of the show and I’ll say, and now I’m going to check out with my sponsor, Perplexity, what percent... and then I’ll read the answer on the air.” ([02:38]) “On our election night broadcast... I just took out a blanket and curled up with a bowl and branch blanket in the middle of the broadcast. It sold them a lot of blankets.” ([03:43])

• Advocates for “letting the host cook.” The best ads are those that let creators creatively engage their audience with the product.

  “Get us really, really familiar with your products... and then let us cook… We know our audiences better than you know our audiences.” ([21:38])

• Stephen Bartlett: Calls for more experimentation and data-driven creativity in advertising, referencing his willingness to test new ideas (like using Descript software skydiving).

  “Don’t guess... We’re more than willing to run multiple creatives and see what performs the best... I would ask the creator to tell me first what they think the ad should look like.” ([23:40])

5. The Unique Value of Working with Independent Creators

• Authenticity for Audiences, Flexibility for Brands:
  • Ben Shapiro: Connects audience trust to an independent host’s freedom to express real opinions—even if that means sometimes disagreeing with listeners or advertisers.

    “People want to feel like they’re turning into a person… If that person feels like they work for the man, then audiences may feel like that advertiser is with that program... because that advertiser wants to be with that large institution.” ([18:42])

  • Stephen Bartlett: Compares independents to the “wonderful family run restaurant in your city or village versus the chain”—innovative, intimate, and adaptable.

    “If you want to do things that are more innovative and therefore potentially yield higher returns... working with independence is the way forward.” ([19:35])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Pressure and Volatility:

  • Ben Shapiro:

    “We certainly are getting the old Yiddish curse right. We’re living in very, very interesting times, which is good for our business... but you can wrong foot yourself so easily...” ([06:05])

• On Depth vs. Ephemerality in Modern Media:

  • Stephen Bartlett:

    “You probably can’t remember the last thing you saw on Instagram, but you can probably remember the last thing you watched on Netflix. And that just shows how I think depth is disproportionately valuable.” ([12:55])

• On Brand-Creator Collaborations:

  • Ben Shapiro:

    “The best advertisers are the ones who see that and then they adjust... Most brands are not only durable enough to take [humor and creativity], they’re enhanced by the creativity of the host who play with them.” ([21:38])

• On Betting on Yourself:

  • Stephen Bartlett:

    “Because I found something in my life that I actually want to do for 50 years, I’ve learned from that, to keep control of that thing in my hands…” ([07:41])

Important Timestamps

| Segment | Speaker(s) | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------|--------------------|-----------| | Opening perspective on independence | Host | 01:00 | | Ad integration & authentic advertising | Ben Shapiro | 02:38 | | Why resist buyouts & maintain independence | Ben Shapiro | 04:43 | | The emotional toll of being independent | Ben Shapiro | 06:05 | | Trade-offs & fulfillment as a founder | Stephen Bartlett | 07:41 | | Podcasting as authentic connection | Ben Shapiro | 10:00 | | Depth’s long-term value over viral content | Stephen Bartlett | 12:55 | | Independence and audience trust | Ben Shapiro | 18:42 | | Analogy: indie creators & family-run restaurants | Stephen Bartlett | 19:35 | | Advice to advertisers: let creators innovate | Ben Shapiro | 21:38 | | Data-driven, dynamic ads | Stephen Bartlett | 23:40 |

Conclusion

This episode is a passionate case for the unique value of independent creators in today’s media and advertising environment. Both Shapiro and Bartlett champion depth, authenticity, and the ability to experiment—qualities only achievable through independence. For listeners, advertisers, and aspiring creators, the takeaway is clear: independence, though costly in stress and responsibility, is the driver of innovation, authenticity, and lasting impact.