The Ben Shapiro Show

Episode: Manhattan Project 2.0

Date: December 30, 2025
Guests: Cabot Phillips (Morning Wire), Greg Brockman (OpenAI co-founder), Chris Wright (U.S. Energy Secretary), Congressman Chuck Fleischman, Oak Ridge Scientists and Engineers

Main Theme Overview

This episode, hosted during the Christmas break, centers on the U.S. government and private sector's rapid response to the escalating global artificial intelligence (AI) race—especially against China. Drawing parallels to the original Manhattan Project, today's efforts at Oak Ridge National Laboratory seek technological advantage through breakthroughs in supercomputing and AI, with nuclear energy as a foundational pillar. The episode delivers an on-the-ground report from Oak Ridge featuring key political, scientific, and industry leaders discussing the stakes, technological progress, and philosophical implications of “Manhattan Project 2.0.”

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The AI Arms Race: Why a “New Manhattan Project”?

• Parallels to WWII:
  • Chris Wright stresses the historic urgency:

    “The Manhattan Project? It was critical that we developed an atomic bomb before Nazi Germany did... AI is hitting critical mass now. In the next few years, AI is going to change our world, not just economically, but in science and also in national defense. China is working aggressively at AI. If they got a meaningful lead on us in AI, it will be a different world in the future.” [01:52]

  • The U.S. must lead on AI to maintain national security, just as it did with nuclear technology.
• National Security and Global Competitors:
  • U.S. political and tech leaders are concerned about falling behind adversaries like China and Russia, as well as competing technologically even with allies.

2. The Role of Nuclear Power in AI and Modern Industry

• Energy Security is AI Security:
  • Chris Wright highlights nuclear power’s unique suitability:

    “Nuclear... provides electricity whether the sun is shining or the wind is blowing... in the not distant future, nuclear will also provide high-temperature process heat that is the most important energy source in the world.” [03:04]

  • Nuclear is vital for flexible, large-scale energy to power AI and industrial processes.
• Critique of Recent Policy:
  • Greg Brockman asserts the last four years (under Biden) were marked by excessive environmental “theology” at the cost of prioritizing domestic innovation. [02:38]

3. Collaboration vs. Competition in AI

• Danger from Bad Actors:
  • The group rejects naive optimism about global AI sharing:

    “If the countries making those advancements are China or Russia, they're not going to share that information with us.” [03:36]

  • The consensus: U.S. must focus on “out-innovating everybody on the planet.” [Greg Brockman, 03:53]

4. Public-Private Partnerships for Innovation

• Character of the Modern “Project”:
  • Today’s strategy unites national labs, the federal government, and tech companies like OpenAI.
  • OpenAI’s large models run on government-funded supercomputers, symbolizing the new fusion of public resources and private leadership:

    “Our goal is for AI to be something that is in many different facets of life… AI is going to be the most important economic driver of the future.” [Greg Brockman, 06:03]

5. Oak Ridge and the Frontier Supercomputer: Tour & Technical Details

• Neutrons, Data, and AI-Driven Discovery:
  • Oak Ridge’s neutron source allows for atomic-level analysis of materials—a critical advantage for next-generation manufacturing.
  • AI and machine learning supercharge experimental cycles, automating analysis and optimizing materials in real time.

    “You can put [an engine] in the neutron beam, run the engine and synchronize the neutron beam pulse, and look at what’s happening in the combustion chamber… Materials stronger, lighter, and cheaper.” [Neutron Scattering Division Director, 08:25]

• Frontier Supercomputer:
  • The world’s fastest supercomputer for open science (as of 2022).
  • Each blade equals about 50 modern laptops. Over 18,000 blades occupy the facility, enabling billion-parameter algorithms.

    “We make this big machine available to scientists who have really big problems… It is open science, true open science. It is for the greater good.” [Oak Ridge Supercomputer Engineer, 12:11]

6. Historical Perspective: Legacy of Oak Ridge and Lessons from the Atom

• X-10 Graphite Reactor and Nuclear Legacy:
  • Congressman Fleischman recounts the origins of nuclear engineering at Oak Ridge and the secrecy during the Manhattan Project.
  • Hyman Rickover’s naval reactor project emanated from lessons learned there, laying the groundwork for modern energy innovation.
• Fusion Research and the “Holy Grail” of Energy:
  • Oak Ridge continues to push for advanced fission and fusion reactors; Frontier helps model reactor behavior to accelerate breakthroughs and improve safety.
• Ethical Weight and Mystery:
  • The segment touches philosophical questions of scientific power and responsibility.

    “We realize the power of unleashing the atom, but we also realized the great responsibility that comes with it.” [Congressman Fleischman, 17:38]

• Memorable Reflection on Scientific Freedom:
  • Cabot Phillips closes with an uplifting meditation:

    “As long as men are free to ask what they will, free to say what they think, free to think what they must, science will never regress. And freedom itself will never be wholly lost.” [18:16]

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

The urgency of competition:

• Chris Wright:

  “If they [China] got a meaningful lead on us in AI, it will be a different world in the future. We have to lead and win the AI race just like we did Manhattan Project. This is Manhattan Project 2.” [01:52]

Why nuclear matters for AI:

• Chris Wright:

  “Nuclear… just provides electricity… in the not distant future, nuclear will also provide high temperature process heat that is the most important energy source in the world.” [03:04]

Critique of environmental priorities:

• Greg Brockman:

  “The last four years seem to be consumed with theology regarding the environment. We’re more interested in helping other countries than we were our own.” [02:38]

Responsibility with scientific power:

• Congressman Fleischman:

  “We realize the power of unleashing the atom, but we also realized the great responsibility that comes with it.” [17:38]

On the hope embedded in free inquiry:

• Cabot Phillips:

  “Science has profoundly altered the conditions of man’s life… as long as men are free to ask what they will, free to say what they think… Science will never regress. And freedom itself will never be wholly lost.” [18:16]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:30 | Introduction, scope, and setup—Cabot Phillips begins Oak Ridge journey | | 00:44 | Chris Wright, Greg Brockman: Framing the “New Manhattan Project” | | 03:04 | Nuclear energy’s future role outlined by Chris Wright | | 03:53 | Greg Brockman on U.S. innovation and global competition | | 06:03 | Greg Brockman on the future of AI integration (OpenAI’s vision) | | 06:27 | “Thousand scientists AI jam” collaboration at Oak Ridge | | 08:25 | Neutron Scattering Division Director: Atomic structure research + AI | | 10:45 | Oak Ridge Supercomputer Engineer: Frontier's capabilities explained | | 12:04 | Public access science: How Frontier handles sensitive, open research | | 13:39 | Congressman Fleischman: Tour of the historic X10 graphite reactor | | 14:59 | Secrecy and compartmentalization during the original Manhattan Project | | 16:23 | Ongoing nuclear energy and fusion research at Oak Ridge | | 17:38 | The risks and responsibilities of scientific innovation | | 18:16 | Reflections on freedom, science, and the human spirit |

Noteworthy Anecdotes

• The “AI Jam” involves over 1,000 scientists using AI to supercharge breakthroughs in areas from nuclear fusion to biology. [06:27]
• Historical context delivered on the reactor built during the original Manhattan Project, emphasizing learning from both triumphs and dangers.
• In closing, the episode moves toward philosophical territory, reflecting on scientific freedom and what it means to wield unprecedented technological power.

Summary Takeaway

This episode positions the AI race as a defining issue for American security and prosperity, equating it to the existential urgency of the original Manhattan Project. Nuclear energy, technological sovereignty, public-private collaborations, and clear-eyed reflection on scientific ethics all come together at Oak Ridge, showing how historical legacy and present innovation inform the nation’s drive not just to compete, but to lead in shaping the future.

For reference, all quotes and attributions are marked with exact timestamps for easy lookup.