Podcast Summary: The Ben Shapiro Show — "Saving America w/ Dan Bongino"
Date: October 15, 2025
Host: Ben Shapiro (B)
Guest: Dan Bongino (A)
Episode Overview
In this wide-ranging, high-energy edition of The Ben Shapiro Show, Ben sits down with Dan Bongino, conservative commentator and former Secret Service agent, to dissect the present and future of the American political landscape. The conversation covers the 2024 election, how Donald Trump has altered the Republican coalition, debates around election integrity and mail-in voting, the binary framing of Trump versus Biden, the fate of the Democratic Party, and fierce debates over economics, foreign policy, and Israel. Throughout, Bongino provides candid, sometimes incendiary takes, challenging establishment wisdom and speaking directly to conservative frustrations.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Trump's Unique Coalition and Political Instincts
- Changing Coalition: Bongino believes Trump’s greatest lasting contribution is fundamentally realigning the GOP base—bringing in black, Hispanic, working-class, and even union voters.
- “My brother's a local 3 electrician. He doesn't know a single person voting for Biden. When did Republicans ever win the union vote?” —A [03:40]
- Messaging and Authenticity: Both agree Trump succeeded where previous Republicans failed by speaking plainly and emotionally, connecting viscerally with voters rather than peddling policy white papers.
- “People like you said were just like, you know, he kind of talks like me. The same losers I hate, he hates.” —A [06:43]
- Trump as a ‘Middle Finger’ to the Establishment: They argue his appeal is less ideological, more rooted in defying elites and channeling grassroots discontent.
- “What Donald Trump really is in a nutshell… is a giant, pulsating orange middle finger to a bunch of people who don’t care about union workers, about blue collar workers, about people who go to church.” —B [05:26]
- Is It Replicable? Ben expresses skepticism that the “Trump magic” can be transferred to any other politician:
- “When I talk about the people in our industry, it’s sort of fascinating… The difference with Trump is that we have such a visceral connection.” —B [13:07]
2. Trump’s Transactionalism Versus Conservative Purism
- Transactional Approach: Bongino frames Trump’s pragmatism as both a gift and source of conservative unease.
- “He sees everything as a spreadsheet. It’s his business background... The old school conservatives, sometimes even like me, are like—But then you’re like, he’s not wrong about the politics. We haven’t done enough political work to get there yet.” —A [11:03]
- McConnell vs. Trump: The contrast is drawn between McConnell’s calculated cynicism and Trump’s impulsive naïveté (which ironically enables bold moves like the Abraham Accords).
- “I think it’s almost like political naivete is Trump's superpower, which sounds odd. Whereas it's McConnell's curse.” —A [14:58]
3. Election Integrity, Mail-in Voting, and 2020 vs. 2024
- Mail-in Voting Skepticism: Both are suspicious of the surge in mail-in ballots in 2020; while conceding no direct proof of fraud decided the outcome, Bongino insists “the results of this election were fraudulent.”
- “There’s no sane person that can say… this thing was totally legit on the up and up… I think it was a total scam.” —A [20:46]
- Pivoting Strategy: The GOP, despite distaste for mail-in voting, must play by current rules to compete:
- “Mail in balloting can be done relatively securely... We're stuck with it now. So I like the pivot. Thankfully, he's made this pivot where now he's like, listen, let's just swamp this thing.” —A [00:00]/[23:10]
- State Parties’ Effectiveness: They question whether swing state GOP organizations will effectively mobilize turnout:
- “How does the Pennsylvania Republican Party perform? Or the Michigan Republican Party...?” —B [22:12]
4. The Biden Presidency: Narratives, Failures, and Reelection Prospects
- Damaging Narratives & Approval Collapse: Biden’s failures all reinforce preexisting doubts about his competence and character—Afghanistan withdrawal, inflation, the Hunter Biden saga.
- “Why is Joe Biden so grotesquely unpopular?... He ran as the stability guy, the transition agent, the non-chaos agent.... then you get Joe Biden... people falling off planes in Afghanistan...” —A [28:14]
- “Baked Into the Cake”: Both Shapiro and Bongino assert opinions on Trump and Biden are mostly fixed, but Biden’s lack of enthusiasm and competence has cost him swing voters:
- “Everyone has an opinion on Trump. Nobody’s opinion about Trump is gonna change... I think what’s happened here is an enormous number of people have changed their mind about [Biden].” —B [25:01]
- 2024 Debates & Nominee Doubts: Both believe Trump should let Biden talk (and unravel), using props to rattle him; Bongino doubts Biden will even be the nominee.
- “He clearly has no emotional control anymore. I think Biden agreeing to the debate was a really, really awful idea. I think it's the last straw. I don't see him being the nominee.” —A [32:40]
5. The Search for a Democratic Replacement
- Kamala Harris, Michelle Obama, and Others: Bongino dismisses Michelle Obama rumors and believes only Kamala or a wild card (Josh Shapiro, Gretchen Whitmer, Gavin Newsom) could step in—if Biden steps aside voluntarily.
- “There is, I'll say 0.001. Because nothing's impossible. There is no way [Michelle Obama is] running... She absolutely hated the White House.” —A [37:20]
- DEI Trap: The party is ‘boxed in’ by identity politics and optics, making replacing Biden tricky without alienating key constituencies.
- “They boxed themselves in with Kamala Harris. Joe Biden made crystal clear it was valuable to have a black woman as vice president. What's he going to do now?” —A [36:36]
6. The Post-Trump GOP: Economic and Foreign Policy Bifurcation
- Economic Populism and Entitlements: GOP is split between free marketers and rising populist redistribution talk (often driven by Trump’s instinctive approach); Bongino warns ignoring entitlement reform will lead to fiscal ruin.
- “Entitlements will bankrupt us. It's a matter of simple math. It's not my opinion. The math doesn't lie.” —A [43:35]
- Foreign Policy/Ukraine:
- Shapiro defends foreign aid to Ukraine as strategic, calls out false ‘neocon’ accusations, and warns of dangers in isolationism.
- “I feel like it's in the United States interest to degrade the Russian military capacity...” —B [45:16]
- Bongino: Increasing distrust in U.S. foreign policy stems from decades of unsuccessful wars; questions indefinite support without clear objectives. Shares a personal family story from Vietnam for context.
- “We could have won in Vietnam. The politics weren't there... People say to themselves now... what happened? Did your life change?... If I can't explain to someone a tangible goal with Ukraine...” —A [49:03]
- Shapiro defends foreign aid to Ukraine as strategic, calls out false ‘neocon’ accusations, and warns of dangers in isolationism.
- Reagan Doctrine as a Template: Both call for revived “peace through strength” posture—a military so powerful it won’t need to be used—while maintaining strategic ambiguity.
- “That’s the glory of the. And we don’t want to do it.” —A [59:44]
- “By the way, the magic of Donald Trump is that he was both of those things, right?” —B [60:03]
7. Israel, Hamas, and Western Morality
- Moral Clarity: Both hosts express incredulity at Western sympathy for Hamas, decry antisemitism as an existential danger to the West itself.
- “It is insane to me... that there is such a lack of understanding of the basic moral calculus between Israel and Hamas...” —B [60:36]
- “I spent a lot of time in the Middle East... I've never seen a group of people, so many people want to kill for reasons they can't...” —A [61:23]
- “Even for the people out there. America first. I'm with you... These people don't see you as any different than the Jews. ...First we get the Saturday people, then we get the Sunday people....” —A [65:11]
- Critique of Palestinian Narrative: Bongino claims the Palestinian identity is used for regional politics and foreign aid scams; highlights Arab world’s treatment of Palestinians as proof.
- “Nobody hates Palestinians more than the Arabs who made this group up because there's money in it. UNRWA and all this other stuff.” —A [63:52]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Trump’s Unique Appeal:
- “This guy was one of them. It wasn’t a money thing, it was a talk thing.” —A [06:23]
-
On GOP Messaging:
- “They've just beat us at the messaging game... Bill Clinton goes on Arsenio Hall... Obama. Hopey Changie, what did that even mean?” —A [06:09]
-
On Mail-In Balloting:
- “The point is, mail in balloting can be done relatively securely. Let's just put this out. I'd rather not have it... But it is, right? We're stuck with it. ...The Democrats bank their early vote... That's about 1-2% of the vote that doesn't show up because of some environmental anomaly...” —A [00:00] & [23:10]
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On Biden’s Narrative Collapse:
- “He ran as the stability guy... then you get Joe Biden. And like you said, the first thing he does is... Afghanistan... then inflation... then you find out the Hunter Biden story... Every one of the stories starts dinging at his credibility till he's down now to the 30% approval, 35%.” —A [28:14]
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On the Post-Trump GOP’s Future:
- “The party remains somewhat amorphous, the conservative movement remains sort of amorphous... There's a lot of internal battling...” —B [40:11]
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On the Foreign Policy Divide:
- “Let’s have a dispassionate conversation about why so many people distrust the federal government’s decision making and foreign interventions. Where have we won?” —A [48:18]
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On Israel & the West:
- “Anti Semitism is inexcusable. But even as a practical matter... These people will kill you and your kids in a heartbeat.” —A [65:58]
Important Timestamps
- Trump’s Base & Coalition: 03:40–07:10
- Trump as 'Middle Finger'/Messaging: 05:10–06:45
- Transactionalism & Policy: 10:51–14:58
- Election Integrity & 2020 Claims: 18:49–21:21
- Mail-in Voting Strategy: 23:04–24:18 / 00:00–00:40
- Biden Presidency Failure Narratives: 27:03–30:28
- The Debate Strategy / Biden’s Candidacy: 31:20–33:38
- Democratic Bench & Kamala: 36:36–39:23
- GOP Economic Populism vs. Math: 41:46–45:16
- Ukraine Policy Debate: 45:16–53:42
- Reagan Doctrine & Military Strength: 56:43–60:11
- Israel/Hamas Moral Discussion: 60:30–66:55
Tone and Style
- Energetic, candid, and unapologetically conservative.
- Bongino is emotional, anecdotal, and occasionally bombastic, using personal stories and sharp analogies.
- Shapiro is brisk, analytical, and pushes for debate, but often returns to broad conservative principles.
Conclusion
This episode is a deep dive into the modern conservative psyche on Trump, election integrity, the shifting American political coalition, and divisive foreign policy challenges. Both Bongino and Shapiro worry about a post-Trump identity crisis for the GOP, stress the need for a pragmatic—if not always ideological—approach, and warn of dangers posed by both domestic and international leftist movements. The discussion closes with an impassioned defense of Israel and a warning about Western cultural self-doubt in the face of terror and antisemitism.