The Ben Shapiro Show

Episode: This Is What Charlie Kirk Actually Believed
Date: September 20, 2025
Host: The Daily Wire (Ben Shapiro)

Overview

In this episode, Ben Shapiro revisits the public positions and debate performances of the late Charlie Kirk, following a wave of misrepresentations and "lies" about Kirk's beliefs after his assassination. Shapiro, who knew Kirk personally, presents a curated set of debate highlights to clarify Kirk’s actual arguments on a range of contentious issues—including abortion, DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion), transgenderism, gun rights, Western civilization, and the Israel-Hamas conflict. The episode is both a defense of Kirk's intellectual legacy and a showcase of his debate prowess, with commentary that analyzes Kirk’s style and the significance of his stances in contemporary public discourse.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Charlie Kirk’s Debate on Abortion (Oxford Union)

• Timestamps: [01:07] – [02:43]
• Position: Kirk argues for universal human rights regardless of conception circumstances, opposing abortion even in cases of rape.
• Notable Quote:

  "You've got two pictures of an ultrasound. You don't know which is which. Are you going to make a decision about which one of these babies gets to be terminated?... We believe in universal human equality regardless of how horrific or evil the method of conception is."
  — Charlie Kirk [01:11]

• Additional Points: Kirk dismisses arguments about the potential mistreatment of children conceived in rape as a justification for abortion, calling it a "separate issue" and maintains that universal defense of life is the core value.

2. Kirk Confronts Gavin Newsom on Trans Athletes in Sports

• Timestamps: [03:33] – [04:41]
• Position: Kirk presses Newsom on male-born athletes competing in women’s sports, pushing Newsom to publicly oppose it for fairness.
• Notable Quotes:

  "You right now should come out and, and be like, you know what? The young man who's about to win the state championship in the long jump in female sports, that shouldn't happen. You as the governor should step out and say no."
  — Charlie Kirk [03:37]

• Newsom agrees in principle that fairness is at stake, but avoids taking a strong stance, leading Shapiro to note how Kirk “corners” Newsom and demonstrates the political tension within the issue.

3. Defending Gender Essentialism and Addressing Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria

• Timestamps: [05:38] – [06:42]
• Position: Kirk rejects the possibility of changing one's sex and attributes increased transgender identification to social contagion, citing bullying, peer pressure, and autism.
• Notable Quote:

  “First of all, you can't be what you are not... If you are a man, you can't become a woman. If you're a woman, you can't become a man.”
  — Charlie Kirk [05:50]

• Shapiro expands, referencing academic research on rapid onset gender dysphoria and claims social phenomena explain increased LGBT identification among youth. He links these views with the motive behind Kirk’s assassination, and positions them as non-hateful but "rational."

4. Debate on Blind Hiring and DEI

• Timestamps: [09:13] – [11:01]
• Position: Kirk dislikes “blind hiring” and makes a distinction between favoring meritocracy and forced diversity. He admits certain factors (like age and physical capacity in manual labor) might be relevant to hiring.
• Notable Quote:

  “I think you should have a full picture of a human being is when you hire them.”
  — Charlie Kirk [10:09] “DEI is that we are going to forcibly make an institution more colorful. We're going to forcibly make an institution more black... We want excellence and meritocracy over race in every possible circumstance.”
  — Charlie Kirk [10:30]

• Kirk argues for a race-blind meritocracy, not DEI by mandate.

5. The Second Amendment and Defending Gun Rights

• Timestamps: [11:37] – [13:38]
• Position: Kirk presents gun ownership as an inalienable right for self-defense against tyranny and home invasion, emphasizing the importance of recognizing trade-offs in public policy and contextualizing gun statistics.
• Notable Quote:

  “I believe that the right to protect yourself and your family against a tyrannical government or a home invader is a inalienable right that must be protected and that no one can take it away.”
  — Charlie Kirk [12:13]

• Highlights the misleading statistics on gun deaths by isolating suicides and noting the concentration of gun crime in specific urban areas.

6. Debating Diversity, Unity, and Western Civilization

• Timestamps: [14:17] – [15:41]
• Position: Kirk argues that diversity in itself does not strengthen a country; unity does. He claims there’s nothing xenophobic about preferring a common language or cultural cohesion and is skeptical of mass immigration without assimilation.
• Notable Quotes:

  “Diversity definitionally will divide you. Unity unifies you. You notice they never say unity is our strength. They say diversity is our strength.”
  — Charlie Kirk [14:25] “So you have to be very careful what people you allow into your country.”
  — Charlie Kirk [15:10]

• Shapiro partly disagrees with Kirk’s economic claims about immigration but supports the idea that successful immigration policy relies on assimilation and cultural unity.

7. Israel-Hamas Conflict: Defining Moral Sides

• Timestamps: [16:57] – [19:00]
• Position: Kirk unequivocally frames Israel as the "good guy" and Hamas as the aggressor responsible for starting the 2023 war, invoking historical context and the inevitability of civilian casualties in urban warfare.
• Notable Quotes:

  “It was also a moral truth that the war started because 1300 Jews were killed and 200 were taken hostage. And when you declare war on Israel, expect a firestorm in reaction... There is a good guy and there is a bad guy.”
  — Charlie Kirk [17:29] “A child who knows that Israel is the good guy, Hamas is bad, has a lot more wisdom than a student like yourself at Cambridge University.”
  — Charlie Kirk [19:00]

• Shapiro praises Kirk’s moral clarity and robust defense of Israel’s self-defense.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Abortion & Human Rights:

  “We believe in universal human equality regardless of how horrific or evil the method of conception is. That is what built the west and I will continue to defend that.”
  — Charlie Kirk [01:18]

• On DEI & Hiring:

  “DEI is that we are going to forcibly make an institution more colorful... We want excellence and meritocracy over race in every possible circumstance.”
  — Charlie Kirk [10:30]

• On Gender & Trans Issues:

  “You can't be what you are not... If you are a man, you can't become a woman. If you're a woman, you can't become a man.”
  — Charlie Kirk [05:50]

• On Immigration & Unity:

  “There is nothing racist or xenophobic to say that you want your kids to be around people that speak English. It actually means that you want to be able to communicate with your neighbor.”
  — Charlie Kirk [14:32]

Conclusion & Legacy

Shapiro closes by reflecting on Charlie Kirk's lasting impact—his reputation as a formidable debater, his fearlessness in taking on controversial subjects, and the viral reach of his public arguments.

• Clips like those played in the episode, Shapiro argues, will “get traffic for decades to come," underscoring the generational influence of Kirk’s approach to political debate and his insistence on foundational conservative principles.

Episode Segment Timestamps

• Introduction & Purpose: [00:28] – [01:07]
• Abortion Debate (Oxford): [01:07] – [02:43]
• Debate with Gavin Newsom: [03:33] – [04:41]
• Transgenderism / Social Contagion: [05:38] – [06:42]
• Blind Hiring & DEI: [09:13] – [11:01]
• Second Amendment/Gun Rights: [11:37] – [13:38]
• Western Civilization/Diversity: [14:17] – [15:41]
• Israel-Hamas Debate: [16:57] – [19:00]

Summary prepared to capture the episode's rich content, logical flow, and original tone, providing value for listeners and non-listeners alike.