Podcast Summary: The Ben Shapiro Show – "We Who Wrestle With God | Dr. Jordan B. Peterson"

Date: [Assumed November 19th release based on provided information]
Duration: Approximately 61 minutes
Guests: Dr. Jordan B. Peterson
Host: Ben Shapiro

Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Ben Shapiro Show, host Ben Shapiro welcomes renowned psychologist and author Dr. Jordan B. Peterson to discuss his latest book, "We Who Wrestle With God." The conversation delves deep into biblical symbolism, the nature of sacrifice, the interplay between modern science and theology, and the profound questions surrounding human existence and morality.

Book Overview and Writing Process

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson begins by expressing both his enthusiasm and perplexity regarding his new book. He aimed to present arguments that are "scientifically and theologically unassailable," attempting to bridge diverse fields such as psychopharmacology, brain function, perception, clinical practice, literary scholarship, and religious studies.

“[02:20] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: ...a description of the weighting function that someone applies to the facts. So, for example, when you go to a movie and you see the protagonist in action...”

Peterson highlights the concept that narratives shape how we perceive and prioritize facts, contrasting this with the empiricist view that all facts hold equal weight—a perspective he finds biologically and psychologically unviable.

The Role of Storytelling and Sacrifice

A central theme of the discussion is the indispensable role of storytelling in human cognition and societal structures. Peterson argues that "we see the world through a story," a notion supported by multiple disciplines including literary theory and neuroscience.

“[05:00] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: ...the proper story is one of sacrifice.”

He posits that true societal cohesion and functionality are predicated on the principle of sacrifice. Every act of attention or perception involves a sacrifice of other information or desires, underscoring the necessity of prioritizing certain values over others to navigate complexity.

Critique of Postmodernism and Progressivism

Peterson critiques postmodernist and progressive ideologies for promoting narratives centered around power, self-gratification, and nihilism. He argues that these narratives are self-defeating and contribute to the erosion of community and societal stability.

“[07:30] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: ...the story that is being put forth as canonical is one of power.”

He draws parallels to biblical stories, such as the worship of the golden calf in Exodus, illustrating how detachment from higher principles leads to chaos and moral decay.

Biblical Narratives as Psychological Archetypes

The conversation explores how biblical stories encapsulate fundamental psychological truths. Peterson discusses the story of Abraham as an archetype of upward spiraling sacrificial offering, contrasting it with narratives like the Tower of Babel which epitomize power consolidation and moral failure.

“[15:57] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: ...Abraham does that so thoroughly, he literally becomes a new person because he gets a new name.”

He emphasizes that each biblical episode represents a psychological transformation, encouraging individuals to commit to higher principles and sacrifice personal whims for greater communal and spiritual good.

Intersection of Science and Symbolism

Peterson bridges modern scientific understanding with ancient theological concepts, arguing that the "hard science of symbolism" is now more precise thanks to advancements in areas like large language models. He suggests that narratives are essentially complex weighting functions that shape human perception and behavior.

“[27:07] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: ...the symbolic world is the weighting of ideas.”

He challenges reductionist materialist views, positing that abstract representations and symbolic structures profoundly influence biological evolution and human consciousness.

The Nature of Belief and Action

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the nature of belief, distinguishing between propositional beliefs (e.g., "God exists") and actionable beliefs that mandate behavior. Peterson asserts that true belief in God is demonstrated through actions and commitments rather than mere intellectual assent.

“[36:09] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: ...I act as if God exists.”

He critiques both atheistic materialism and fundamentalist religious stances, advocating for a belief system grounded in sacrifice, commitment, and ethical action.

The Complexity of Divine Reality

Peterson delves into the theological concept of God being "hyper real"—existing beyond human categorization and the fabric of time and space. He argues that God serves as the foundational reality upon which all existence depends.

“[44:00] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: God is the reality upon which all reality depends.”

He emphasizes that understanding God requires engaging with the divine through actions and intentions, aligning one's aims with higher principles to foster a meaningful and virtuous life.

Conclusion and Future Discussions

As the episode draws to a close, Peterson reflects on the joy and optimism he found while writing "We Who Wrestle With God," contrasting it with his earlier, more somber works. He expresses excitement about the ongoing exploration of these profound themes and hints at future discussions to further unravel the complexities of human existence, morality, and spirituality.

“[61:09] Ben Shapiro: ...the book is amazing. Jordan poured his heart and his soul into it.”

Notable Quotes

• “[02:20] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: ...a story is actually a description of the weighting function that someone applies to the facts.”

• “[05:00] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: ...the proper story is one of sacrifice.”

• “[15:57] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: ...Abraham does that so thoroughly, he literally becomes a new person because he gets a new name.”

• “[27:07] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: ...the symbolic world is the weighting of ideas.”

• “[36:09] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: ...I act as if God exists.”

• “[44:00] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: God is the reality upon which all reality depends.”

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a profound exploration of how ancient narratives and modern science intersect to shape our understanding of reality, morality, and the divine. Dr. Jordan B. Peterson's insights offer listeners a compelling framework for grappling with age-old questions about human existence and the role of sacrifice and storytelling in forging a meaningful life.

For those interested in delving deeper into these themes, Peterson’s book "We Who Wrestle With God" is highly recommended and is available for purchase as mentioned by Ben Shapiro towards the end of the episode.

Note: Advertisements and promotional segments for Greenlight and Collars & Co. were excluded from this summary as per the request to focus solely on content discussions.