Vault: How Do You Tell Your Employee to Go Out More?

Summary

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The Bert Show: Vault - How Do You Tell Your Employee to Go Out More?

Episode Date: March 26, 2026
Featured Hosts: Aaron (Host), Bert (Co-host), Melissa (Co-host), and multiple callers

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, The Bert Show tackles a highly unusual workplace dilemma: a boss calls in seeking advice on how to address a drastic change in an employee’s performance—an employee who used to be high-performing while living a party lifestyle, but whose work has declined significantly since giving up partying. The hosts and callers debate the ethics, legality, and practicality of wanting your employee to "go out more," diving into the workplace dynamics, personal well-being, and the fine (and sometimes hilarious) lines between professional concern and personal choices.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Dilemma: Performance Declines With Sobriety

• Scenario:
  • The boss explains (02:01) that her star employee—always reliable, fun, and productive—has decided to stop partying for personal and relationship reasons.
  • Since then, he’s become late, grumpy, less productive, and less enjoyable to work with:

    "He's awful now. He's not fun to be around... People don't want to be around him. He's slow with getting stuff done. It's awful. It's a nightmare." (Caller/Boss, 02:18)

2. The Team Reacts: Ethics and HR Quandaries

• The hosts grapple with whether it's even legal or ethical to desire an employee resume "unhealthy" behaviors for company benefit:
  • “Basically what you're saying, as the boss, is I wanna do what's unhealthy for my employees for the good of the company.” (Aaron, 01:29)
• They consider approaching it through job performance rather than lifestyle:
  • “You have to start the conversation… and say, what's different? Why you didn't used to be this way?” (Bert, 04:01)

3. Approaching the Conversation

• Hosts suggest a tactful approach, focusing on observable changes:
  • “As a boss, you can only point out to him as a boss, what he's doing wrong at work… then, I think ask the question, what's different? Because you've never done this before.” (Bert, 09:39)
• The show rejects any suggestion of directly advising unhealthy habits.

4. Was It About the Girlfriend?

• A caller suggests the girlfriend might be the source of stress, but the boss clarifies it’s the same girlfriend; the lifestyle change is the only new factor (05:29–05:45).

5. Living Vicariously?

• Another caller speculates the boss just misses living vicariously through the employee’s stories:
  • “I want to say that I think she needs to get a life. Her life is boring. And she was living vicariously through him because when he was partying, she was like, oh, he comes in late, but we know he has long weekends. But not in his lifestyle exchange.” (Deborah, 06:35)
• The boss pushes back, insisting the real problem is performance, not her own sense of fun (06:57).

6. Could It Be Depression?

• The possibility that the employee is unhappy or even clinically depressed after making a major lifestyle change is raised:
  • “He’s just clinically depressed. I mean, I think he probably needs, like, serious help, like Prozac or something.” (Deborah, 10:03)

7. The Consensus: Guide, Don’t Dictate

• The team universally agrees that suggesting a return to partying is out of bounds, but guiding the employee to reflect on why their performance has changed is responsible management:
  • “Good managers and good leaders don't dictate what you do, but they ask you questions that sort of lead you into exactly the point that they're trying to make.” (Aaron, 09:19)
  • “Any boss that would even think or suggest that an employee harm themselves in order to improve the company's bottom line… you need to take a hard look at yourself, too.” (Melissa, 11:01)

8. The Show’s Signature Humor

• The hosts and callers keep things light with running gags about office bars, Jager Bombs, and margarita parties:
  • “Invite him into your office and have a couple beers on the desk. Let's do a Jager Bomb.” (Melissa, 04:16)
  • "Have an office party. Like, have an office party... Some margaritas and Mexican food and just make it all office." (Guest/Caller, 06:17–06:23)
• The conversation pokes fun at improbable solutions, ultimately underscoring the seriousness of workplace health.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Spirit of the Problem:
  “He was more likable with his wild stories, but… now he's late, now his job performance is bad, and now he's grumpy around people.”
  (Caller/Boss, 07:31)

• On Management Tactics:
  “Maybe just ask, well, why, when you were partying, were you more reliable than when you’re not... Is something else going on that I need to know about?”
  (Bert, 04:41)

• On Drawing the Line:
  “Any boss that would even think or suggest that an employee harm themselves in order to improve the company's bottom line... I think you need to take a hard look at yourself, too.”
  (Melissa, 11:01)

• Injecting Humor:
  “Full serve bar in the lobby.”
  (Aaron, 06:30)

• On Perspective:
  “You have lost your employee, even though he's still in the office.”
  (Aaron, 07:46)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:45 – Call-in begins; dilemma introduced
• 02:01 – Boss describes dramatic change in employee’s work and attitude
• 03:44 – Host raises HR and legal questions about discussing personal habits
• 04:01–04:41 – Advice: Focus on job performance, ask guiding questions
• 05:29–05:45 – Discussion of the girlfriend’s possible role
• 06:35–06:57 – Debate: living vicariously or real performance concern?
• 08:18–08:58 – Caller relates similar real-life scenario post-lifestyle change
• 10:01–10:14 – Caller suggests potential depression; shift to seriousness
• 11:00–11:13 – Final consensus: never cross the line into suggesting self-harm or unhealthy habits

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Takeaways

• Work performance and personal habits can sometimes be intertwined, but it's never appropriate for a manager to encourage unhealthy behavior.
• Good managers focus on observable changes and create space for employees to self-reflect, rather than dictating their personal lives.
• Sometimes, dramatic lifestyle changes lead to unexpected workplace challenges; empathy and honest dialogue are key.
• The Bert Show uses humor to address a tricky topic, but ultimately lands on responsibility and workplace well-being.

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Transcript

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[Aaron (Host)]

You're on the bird show. All right, let's get Aaron on the voice disguiser. Her. I can't think of a scenario where you have to go and tell your employee to start partying again.

[Bert (Co-host)]

The only thing that made me think about this is years ago. This is old school, Burt show listeners, you remember when Crash Clark, who used to be here years ago for lent, had given up alcohol? Do you remember that?

[Melissa]

Yes.

[Bert (Co-host)]

And he was actually better on the air. Nobody liked him when he was drinking.

[Melissa]

Right.

[Bert (Co-host)]

So that's the only scenario I could think about.

[Caller (Boss)]

The fact that he. He.

[Bert (Co-host)]

He was better off drinking. I don't know. And on the. Not on the job. But you know what I mean.

[Aaron (Host)]

You know what you're saying.

[Bert (Co-host)]

If you just cannot function, you know, as someone who never parties, then I. That's so sad.

[Aaron (Host)]

Like, I mean, we're gonna get all the details here, but basically what you're saying, as the boss, is I wanna do what's unhealthy for my employees for the good of the company.

[Guest/Caller]

Well, I mean, it brings in stories, Bert. It brings in good stories from the weekend and the night before.

[Aaron (Host)]

Look, you gotta take our job completely out of it. Good morning, Erin. We will call you. You're on the voice disguiser. Nobody can recognize your voice.

[Caller (Boss)]

Good. Okay. Hi. Good morning.

[Aaron (Host)]

All right, now, what scenario could possibly be where you could call up looking for advice to tell an employee to start partying again?

[Caller (Boss)]

I'm shocked. I've never really been so shocked at work before until this happened. I have this employee who's always been top notch and absolutely one of the best employees I've ever had. He was really smart and bright, hard working, got along with everyone, always kind of could anticipate everything, you know, just a second before you felt you needed it. It was just. He was excellent. And he also happened to be. You know, he's a young guy, and he would party a lot and not at work ever. But we knew about it, you know, it was on the weekends, it was at night. You know, drink and smoke a lot, out late, but. But it just never interfered with his job performance. And we all figured, well, he's a young guy. He doesn't get in the way. You know, it's okay. And something's really gone downhill. He decided around the first of the year that he needed to make some changes. His girlfriend wanted to settle down a bit. He felt he was getting a little older. So he gave up his party lifestyle. And we weren't concerned. We kind of thought it was for the best. And unfortunately, it has changed everything. I mean, everything. He's awful now. He's not fun to be around. He's not an enjoyable employee to be around. He doesn't get his work done. He's late every morning. He was never late before. Dumb performance is just bad. He's grumpy. People don't want to be around him. He's slow with getting stuff done. It's awful. It's a nightmare. I don't know what to do. I mean, do I call him into my office and tell him he needs his start partying again?

[Aaron (Host)]

I don't even know. I mean, we can hear from human resources people here on this. Also, like, if you're. Even if it's legal for you even to have that conversation. 404.

[Caller (Boss)]

Yeah, right.

[Aaron (Host)]

741Q100. Or if you're a boss, you can give us a call, too. And how would you handle this situation? Or do you just have to let it play out the way it's playing out?

[Bert (Co-host)]

But, I mean, if he's late every morning and the job performance part, like, people don't want to be around him. I don't know if he can say that. But, like, the actual things that he's doing wrong, which is coming in late or she doesn't want to fire him. Yeah, I mean, that's how you have to start the conversation, I guess. And say, what's different? Why you didn't used to be this way.

[Melissa]

I think you should invite him into your office and have a couple beers on the desk. Let's do a Jager Bomb. And just so we're relaxed, well, let's

[Aaron (Host)]

talk about the way you're talking about doing it, Melissa. So if you say to him, like, what's changed since, you know, the beginning of.

[Bert (Co-host)]

Make him Say it.

[Aaron (Host)]

And he says, well, I'm not partying as much at that point. What is she left to do? She can't say, well, maybe you should start partying again.

[Bert (Co-host)]

Well, maybe just ask, well, why? You know, I guess maybe probe more into it because, I mean, you're obviously concerned and you enjoy him as an employee, so, you know, the only thought I have is if he says, well, I was partying more than just question, well, why, when you were partying, were you more reliable than when you're not, you know, is something else going on that I need to know about and just, you know, put it all on him to share? But you have to point out to him that something. Something's not working.

[Melissa]

That would be interesting. Like, why would someone be more punctual?

[Adam (Caller)]

Hungover.

[Bert (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Guest/Caller]

Well, and he's got a girlfriend, too, right?

[Caller (Boss)]

Yeah.

[Aaron (Host)]

Well, maybe you're. I mean, because you're freaked out. I'm hungover. I gotta get into work. I gotta get into work today. So you're always on time. Whereas if there's not that pressure on you if you're sober. It sounds terrible.

[Bert (Co-host)]

It sounds weird.

[Aaron (Host)]

404-741. Q100. Hey, Debbie.

[Caller (Boss)]

Hey.

[Aaron (Host)]

Hey. You're part of the Burt show. Go ahead.

[Deborah (Caller)]

I was just saying that maybe the girlfriend's the problem. Maybe he's stressed out at home.

[Aaron (Host)]

Now, is the girlfriend. Is the timing on the girlfriend and the partying different? Or has he always had this girlfriend and just the partying?

[Caller (Boss)]

Yeah. No, not different girlfriend.

[Guest/Caller]

Same girlfriend.

[Aaron (Host)]

Same girlfriend there. So you can't attack it from that angle. And even then. And you can't really approach your employee and go, you know what? I think you need to start. You need to.

[Melissa]

You need to break up drinking, smoking, and you need to be single.

[Caller (Boss)]

I don't think I'm sexually harassing him.

[Aaron (Host)]

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure where to go with this. And I don't think our community knows where to go with this either. I would like to hear from an HR person to say, if it's even legal for you to say, look, you gotta start drinking and smoking.

[Melissa]

Well, I don't think you say it like that, but I think if you get him, like, I'm just trying to get inside the head.

[Bert (Co-host)]

You're sober. You were just miserable.

[Guest/Caller]

Have an office party. Like, have an office party.

[Melissa]

Just get him hammered and then put

[Aaron (Host)]

him right to work.

[Guest/Caller]

Some margaritas and Mexican food and just

[Bert (Co-host)]

make it all office.

[Melissa]

And see if he's, like, happier than every morning. He's gonna wonder why it's Cinco de Mayo.

[Adam (Caller)]

His desk only.

[Aaron (Host)]

Full serve bar in the lobby.

[Caller (Boss)]

Yep.

[Aaron (Host)]

Good morning, Tiffany. You are part of the birth show. Hi.

[Deborah (Caller)]

Yes. I want to say that I think she needs to get a life. Her life is boring. And she was living vicariously through him because when he was partying, she was like, oh, he comes in late, but we know he has long weekends. But not in his lifestyle exchange.

[Caller (Boss)]

He didn't very well. He didn't come in lately, this party.

[Deborah (Caller)]

Oh, well, I just really believe that she was living vicariously through him.

[Caller (Boss)]

You really need to listen better, because I said all the employees are complaining about him. He's not getting along with anyone. He was never late when he was partying. It's very strange that you would bring in my personal life. It's okay, though. But that's not gonna be the. That's not the issue here.

[Deborah (Caller)]

I mean, it's just interesting. I mean, just to have.

[Caller (Boss)]

I think. Come on.

[Deborah (Caller)]

Mike went every day to have something to talk about around the office. And now that his lifestyle has changed, it's becoming.

[Melissa]

Now, Tiffany, how do you play?

[Bert (Co-host)]

Yes, I love when somebody doesn't have anything to say. They say you're jealous. You know what, honey? You're just jealous.

[Caller (Boss)]

Yeah, maybe he was more likable with his wild stories, but she doesn't have a point in that. You know, now he's late, now his job performance is bad, and now he's grumpy around people, so.

[Bert (Co-host)]

Are you sure you're not jealous?

[Caller (Boss)]

Well, you know, I have to give it more thought, but I think that's not. That would only be a teeny part of it.

[Aaron (Host)]

What you're saying is you have. You have lost your employee, even though he's still in the office. He's not the same guy, and it's not him.

[Caller (Boss)]

And, you know, he doesn't even go out now, even on the weekends, except for a dinner, maybe a glass of wine. So he's just completely turned his life around. Off duty.

[Melissa]

Damn him.

[Guest/Caller]

Gosh, they'll be an alcoholic. Be an alcoholic. Party, get wasted. Just don't sleep in your car with the keys in the ignition.

[Aaron (Host)]

Yeah, we learned that earlier.

[Bert (Co-host)]

Yes, exactly. The sad thing is, yeah, he's turned his life around, and it's made it worse.

[Aaron (Host)]

Hey, Adam. Go ahead. You're part of the Birch Show.

[Adam (Caller)]

Hey, guys. Yeah, I mean, I had a guy, a friend of mine, who did this, and, you know, he just. He wasn't fun to be around afterwards. He would always kind of judge you when you're. Oh, What'd you do this weekend? I went and had a couple drinks. Really? Okay. How'd that go? I think it's more along the lines he's just, like, becoming Darrell the Downer. And, you know, he's not happy, but he's doing it maybe to appease the girlfriend and keep things on the home front happy, but he's really not that happy.

[Aaron (Host)]

So how do you address that with him, though? Let's say what you're saying is true. I mean, you still want, you know, what he's capable of doing, but he's only capable of doing it on two hours sleep. And now the guy's getting eight hours, and he's totally clean.

[Adam (Caller)]

Well, maybe it's not even that. Maybe it's the fact that he's just not happy. He was happy before, doing, you know, having fun, hanging out with his friends or whatever. And now that he's not able to do that, he might. He might just not be happy. And just like, you know what? We've all been there. You know, screw it. I really don't feel like doing this right now. Like, you know, he just. He's not a happy.

[Aaron (Host)]

I think the only way to get to this, you know, don't they say that, like, the good managers and good leaders don't dictate what you do, but they ask you questions that sort of lead you into exactly the point that they're trying to make. So maybe it is what Melissa said in the very beginning is you throw questions at him, guiding him into what has changed.

[Bert (Co-host)]

Because as a boss, you can only point out to him as a boss, what he's doing wrong at work. And she has legitimate concerns about his tardiness to go back to elementary school. And, you know, if projects don't get done, and she can talk to that about him. And then, like Bert's saying, I think ask the question, what's different? Because you've never done this before. So is there something I need to know? And put the in and put it on him.

[Aaron (Host)]

Hey, Deborah. Go ahead. You're on Q100.

[Deborah (Caller)]

Well, it sounds like he's just after a major lifestyle change. He's just clinically depressed. I mean, I think he probably needs, like, serious help, like Prozac or something.

[Aaron (Host)]

Well, now I got fun.

[Melissa]

Yeah, or he's a victim of molestation.

[Caller (Boss)]

Dude, hell.

[Deborah (Caller)]

God.

[Melissa]

I'm just trying to brighten the mood.

[Bert (Co-host)]

I'm gonna see your mug shot someday.

[Melissa]

This guy needs to go home and tell his girlfriend, look, my employees just say I'm. Cause it's her fault. She's the one who ruined him. It was her idea to have the New Year's resolution and she needs to go home and go, look, I'm gonna lose my job unless I can get hammered. And it's only Sunday through Thursday, so there's the compromise. If I have to work the next day, I'm gonna be drunk.

[Aaron (Host)]

Yeah. I think he's gonna have to draw the conclusion himself. Aaron, I really don't think there's any way for you to come out and say what you want to say. You are just going to have to draw him into that conclusion. Himself. Himself.

[Melissa]

And I mean any boss that would even think or suggest that an employee harm themselves.

[Aaron (Host)]

Ridiculous.

[Melissa]

In order to improve the company's bottom line. I mean, I think you need to take a hard look at yourself, too.

[Aaron (Host)]

Indeed.

[Caller (Boss)]

Well, I didn't say I was going to do that, so I don't see why you say I would take a hard look. I just didn't know what to do.

[Aaron (Host)]

Yeah, I think you just. You can lead him, but the truth is, then you've got to live with knowing that the guy is. He's drinking and partying more just to satisfy his work side.

[Bert (Co-host)]

And we're assuming that's the problem. You know, I mean it. That seems to be the correlation. But my thoughts are.

[Guest/Caller]

Did he go to aa?

[Caller (Boss)]

He wasn't an alcoholic. He was just a partier.

[Melissa]

So you think he's going.

[Guest/Caller]

That'd be really sad.

[Melissa]

He's going through the 12 steps.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Melissa]

And you sit him down and go, look. Hey.

[Guest/Caller]

Oh, that just turned.

[Caller (Boss)]

Yeah.

[Aaron (Host)]

Do not go to step seven. You go to step seven, I'm gonna have to fire you.

[Guest/Caller]

Go all the way back before 1.

[Melissa]

Maybe. Melissa, you could follow him to an AA meeting and point out that that's

[Bert (Co-host)]

where he says, I know what the symbol means.

[Aaron (Host)]

You're on the vert show.

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